Judge John Hodgman - Judge John Hodgman 57: A Wing and A Player

Episode Date: April 25, 2012

Michael and Patrick have been best friends since high school. Michael likes to think of himself as Patrick's wingman, helping alert him to interested ladies when they're out together. Patrick thinks his friend lacks the subtlety to be a wingman and also misjudges politeness for romantic interest. Is Michael helping his friend find love and happiness, or is he steering him in the wrong direction? Only the Judge can decide.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, a wing and a player. Michael and Patrick have been best friends since high school. Michael likes to think of himself as Patrick's wingman, helping alert him to interested ladies when they're out together. Patrick thinks his friend lacks the subtlety to be a wingman and also misjudges politeness for romantic interest. Is Michael helping his friend find love and happiness or is he steering him in the wrong direction? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Speak. I'll listen. I judge you. Yes. Talk to me of judgment. I judge you.

That's your theme. Embroider it. Embroider it. Embroider it. I judge you so much. Jesse Thorne, swear them in, please. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his almost unspeakable level of star power means that he requires no wingman at all? Yes. Yes, I do as well. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Hello, gentlemen. The plaintiff

is Michael. Are you bringing in the case? I am bringing in the case. All right, Michael, for an immediate snap judgment in your favor, can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as as an oh as an avid listener i so frequently can at the top of the show but today i cannot unfortunately yeah the hint it is not

fargo yeah precisely yes for an immediate snap judgment in your favor, can you name the piece of culture that I referenced when I entered the courtroom and spoke so touchingly of speaking and judgment and embroidery? Was it Fargo? No, I really don't know. Touch of Evil. I don't know. Well, that would be interesting. I'll put that one down. Touch of Evil. I don't know. Well, that would be interesting. I'll put that one down. Touch of Evil. No, it is, of course, the story

of the ultimate wingman, Cyrano de Bergerac. Roxanne and Christian speaking to each other. I was reading both parts, and I chose not to do a lady's voice because I have dignity. It would have made it more confusing. You know what? Let's just

calm down, everybody. I know we all want to talk, but now it's time for me to talk. Michael, you're 22 years old. You're both 22 years old. Yes, Your Honor. Young men on the cusp of life. Precisely. Of adult life and good friends. Is that correct? Yes, Your Honor. Where did you grow up together?

We grew up in a very small town outside of Bowling Green, Kentucky. And what was the name of the town? It was called Russellville, although Patrick was from Lewisburg, which was an adjacent tiny town. Oh, yeah, the twin towns of Russellburg and Lewisville. Twin towns outside of Bowling Green, Kentucky. I know them well. So, Michael, cast your mind back. Lucky, I know him well.

So, Michael, cast your mind back. Describe for me what happened on the night of 15th, 17, or however many years ago, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, five years ago when this dispute began. What happened? Let's see. Patrick had come over to my house because we had intended to just go out and go to Bowling Green, which was, you know, the festive city closest to us. Yes, precisely. They had a Walmart there. Yep.

You're going to roll some balls on the green. Precisely. I got you. And whenever he got to my house, he told me that he was concerned that his hairline was prematurely receding. Oh, my gosh. At 17 years old. Or so you claim, 17. Or so you claim, 17.

Or so you claim, 17. I'm sorry. Yes, you're correct. I remember very distinctly we got on the internet and I researched some shampoos for him. And then I told him, yeah, thank you. And then I told him that he need not worry. And we went out for our night together. And then we went to an Indian restaurant that we used to frequent.

In Bowling Green? Yes, precisely. And I'll allow you to buzz market it. It is called Taj Palace. If you were ever in the area, I highly recommend you go there. It's delicious. I have since moved to Chicago, and I've yet to find an Indian restaurant as good. have since moved to Chicago and have yet to find an Indian restaurant as good.

But no, so we went to this Indian restaurant and we were waiting for our waitress and Patrick said, oh, something along the lines of, I love Indian food so much, I could just sit here and get fat off Indian food all day. To ever the clever friend I took upon myself. And that's when you brought out the samples of Rogaine that you had brought for your friend? And that's when you brought out the samples of Rogaine that you had brought for your friend? I had not stooped so low yet. Wait a minute. I'm going to pause there on the Indian food thing.

You went on the internet, and what were you researching for your friend? Oh, it was so long ago. I remember distinctly that we were researching shampoos that would help his predicament, shampoos that would fight a receding hairline. And were you doing this in order to help your friend or to humiliate him? To help him. I would never want to humiliate him if there was no one else around. For those of you listening at home who were not privy to our pre-show audio tech rehearsal, we were having a little trouble with Patrick's line. And Michael at one point said, Boy, I hope he's okay. I better call him. And you are the caretaker

in this relationship. Are you not? Self-imposed most of the time. I do intensely care for him. Now, Patrick, you've been very patient. How are you today? Oh, I'm doing all right. I'm a little bit confused that I've had this case brought against me. But since I do have this case brought against me, it is a pleasure to have it being discussed in such a manner by you fellows. And I suppose that I'm trying to get it on your good side right now. discussed in such a manner by you fellows. And I suppose that I'm trying to get it on your good side

right now. Well, you should because if this goes against your favor, there is a chance that you will go in the box for 30 days. Oh. Now, you've been listening to your friend Michael tell the story so far. We haven't even gotten to the biggest part of the dispute.

Are there any, the facts of the case that have been relayed to me so far, are they in your mind more or less accurate? Were you, what age were you when these events occurred? 16, 17? What's your memory of it? Well, it would be more around 17. And he says that i wouldn't think it's more than 17 but i don't know i think that it's probably i mean i know that i was a sophomore in college and i feel like i would have been at least 18 he might have been 17 at the time but we're not necessarily the same age you're obviously a very confused person so it's good that you have Michael looking out for you. What I'm trying to determine here is

are you a bald person? Was your hairline receding at this time? Is that true? Or did you fear that? I feel like it may have been. But this was a conversation that you had where you said, boy, oh boy, I don't know what age I am

but I do think that my hairline might be receding. Well. A simple yes or no. I remember seeing, yeah, my hairline seemed to be receding at the time because it looked different than I was used to it looking. Right. It was on the sides. It was thinning out. Your Honor, might I add. No, you may not. Hang on. I want to sides. It was thinning out. Your Honor, might I add?

No, you may not. Hang on. I want to hear about the sides thinning out. Stand by. Please do not jump in. Very sorry. You have been reprimanded.

Go to the box for an hour now. This is hard to describe. See my scalp. Not for most humans. So, yeah, a lot of people

have those. You know how a lot of people have widow's peaks? Sure. And some people don't have widow's peaks. You're talking about the vampires. Yeah, yeah, those. Okay, widow's peaks, I know what they are. They're the most famously, they most famously have widow's peaks.

But what almost seemed like there was this, I never had a widow's peak, and it almost seemed like there was this self-imposed widow's peak happening here, but it was all rounded out, and there was a loss of... I don't know. It just seemed like erosion on the sides, but on the very front, it remained the same. It's very hard to describe this.

I don't know scientific terms for my shit. No, it's hard to figure. But basically, you're saying you were starting to develop a widow's peak? That's what it seemed to be. Yeah, it just seemed like change going on, and I didn't know why. Had you been bitten by any bats recently or marauded late at night by strange creatures, maybe the monster of Popelik, Kentucky, for example? Anything like that?

Any weird supernatural events happening? Well, I think sometimes we get some pretty big mosquitoes in Kentucky, and sometimes they come inside and they buzz about, and sometimes they hit you in the head and wake you up because they're actually quite large. They run into you, and they're not able to be – I guess they're mosquitoes that are more attuned to like sucking horses blood and such but

whenever they try to bump into you they definitely wake you up. Alright, Bailiff Jesse? Yes. That may have happened. Okay, thank you. Just put in the record that when I asked the defendant if indeed he recalled confessing to Michael that he thought his hair was thinning, he said

simply yes. Okay? So noted. We'll put that in the record. And we'll keep the audio for later historians. Now, did you also go to an Indian restaurant with your friend? Oh, yes. We went to the Indian restaurant.

All right. Because that was, none of my friends in Lexington, see, I was going to the University of Kentucky at the time, and I came down to visit him. All right. And see, nobody, none of my friends in Lexington enjoyed Indian food, and I was, that made me very sad. So whenever I came to Logan County, slash, well, whenever I came to Bowling Green to see Michael, or whenever we went to Bowling Green together, I should say, we would always go to that Indian place because it was just filling a need for me. Very well. Now, Bailiff Jesse?

Yes. Were you just marking the record that when I asked the defendant if they had gone to an Indian restaurant, he said yes? So noted. Thank you. Now, Patrick, you mentioned that you were going to university at this time, or college. Is that right? Yes. So you probably were older than

17 years old, weren't you? I would say so, yeah. How do you respond to that, Michael? In my memory, we were both... Get back in the box! Patrick? I'm very sorry, Your Honor. Shh. Patrick? Did you say

something along the lines of, I would like to get fat off of foreign food? Or how do you remember it? Oh, I don't know if I said that I would like to. I may have said something like, I think what probably ended up happening

was and this happens a lot while we go to these places we like were not sure if we were going to get samosas or pecoras because we like both and so we just said we'll get

both and then we'll also get some na. And then we'll also get some non, and then we'll also get some entrees. And then I probably said something like, boy, we're going to, I'm going to get fat today or something like that. Not necessarily saying, oh,

I'd love to get fat off of this. Even though that's pretty much what, you know, ordering the stuff was doing in a way saying that. Great. And then Jesse just put in the record that when I asked if he had said those words he said more or less probably something like that

so noted thank you Patrick Michael can you describe what happened then after Patrick made this comment no matter what it may have been about fatness in Indian food, I took it upon myself to then say, so then you'll be both fat and bald. Ooh. Yes. And I should I should also note that Patrick is amongst the kindest people ever. He's never gotten mad at me, even whenever he had due cause to be mad at me. And that was the first time I had ever seen him visibly angry with me.

And what did he look like? I remember distinctly he put his head in his hands, and I attempted to apologize, and he just said, don't try right now. Yeah. Yeah, what happened? I thought you were the nice one. And all of a sudden, you're being mean. Well, it's old schoolyard ribbing coming back into my system. I regret it.

I don't think it was even a clever enough joke to have made out loud. All right. But the deed was done, and it's now been revisited here. Precisely. So then what happened that brings the dispute to my court? Shortly thereafter, the waitress did come, and she was a younger lady. The restaurant was run by a Nepalese family. We had never seen this young lady working there before. Hang on.

Let me just put my feet up. Go on. All right. And so this woman came up to our table, and she was talking to us and being cordial with us. This woman came up to our table and she started, she was talking to us and being cordial with us. And then after she left, I told Patrick, I'm pretty sure that that girl is flirting with you. I see. Patrick refused to believe it and thought that I was only sparing his feelings.

He insisted that there was no way that this girl was interested in him and that I was only saying so so that I could get out of the metaphorical dog house. Oh, okay. So he thought you were buttering him up at that time. Precisely. Or in the case of Indian food, geeing him up. Yes. Clarified buttering him up, as it were. Yes, sir. All right. Patrick, you just heard this tale of humiliation. Does this comport with your memory of the events of that evening,

of the ninth of five years ago? Yeah. Mostly. Yes. Except for the thing that he's the way he said, she, I think that girl was flirting with you. That's not what he said.

He said, Patrick, that girl wants to, that girl totally wants you. That's what, that's basically what he said he said patrick that girl wants to that girl totally wants to fuck you that's what that's basically what he said wow michael you present yourself as such a clean-cut guy buying anti-hair loss shampoo for your friend and all of a sudden you've turned into a douchy frat boy. I was a much more crass teenager than I am today. I've become a modern day gentleman.

At the time, I wore my hair long. I wore T-shirts. See, I thought you were both gentlemen of Kentucky. But now I wonder, perhaps you are allowed to, sir. It appears that you may never make the rank of colonel. All I can say is that I was a teenager and that my language was far more crass than it is today. I see. And that if I did say such a thing,

then it was only in the notion of alerting Patrick to this girl's interest in him. You were so desperate to make up for the terrible faux pas of accusing your friend of being fat and bald. I would not say that. Poking him precisely at his most sensitive part at that moment, which was his mysterious supernatural emerging widow's peak, that you decided that you overcompensated and said that this girl wanted to have intercourse with him.

Subconsciously, that might have been happening, but I will say that my that it was it was the most sincere comment I could have made because that girl was it was displaying interest. I'm so glad you guys came to me for this because, as you may know, I am a person who's been married for more than a decade and has been monogamous for almost 25 years. So I know a lot about flirting and dating. in real time, but I am extremely adept at looking back past the years and realizing five, 10, or 15 years later, oh yeah, that girl was flirting with me. So I'm pretty good. I'm pretty well qualified to judge. So, and, and, and describe to me again, Michael, you went through some long explanation about how this was actually a Nepalese family, but this young woman was of mixed Eurasian origin.

What was the story again? No. No. This girl was very much an Anglo woman, which was unusual. So she's a local. She's not a member of the family serving you. Precisely. Precisely.

And actually, it's interesting to add— How old would you say she is or was at the time maybe a couple of years older than us uh maybe 20 i will say well you we've established that you have no uh judgment of age so i i take it back patrick how old was the young woman oh um she was probably uh in i know she had to be be in college years because I vaguely remember her discussing how she had taken classes. Okay, I'm not asking for hearsay or your conjecture. I'm asking for the facts as you remember them without opinionating.

So here's how we're going to do it, Michael. Michael, you're going to be this young woman. And can we call her a young woman? All right, because already she was of age when, presumably, when you dumb teenagers were eating your samosas. So this young woman, you will be her, and I will be Patrick, and Patrick, you will be silent. Okay. All right. That's fine.

We're going to go through this mystery date. We're going to go through this mystery date. And if you have an objection of fact where you feel like Michael is misrepresenting what happened, I encourage you to say objection. Or you could say, alternately, at this point, I would like to raise an objection about this. Well, I just have to let me just butt in for a second to say something. Okay. So that's what you'll say if, if Michael has an objection. Sure. All right. Sounds good. Okay. Let's do it. Okay. Okay.

Michael. Yes, your honor. Yeah. Hello. My name is Patrick and I'd like to order some samosas or pakoras. I don't, I can't, I can't remember the difference between them, but maybe. Well, pakoras are basically like little fried vegetables that are just held together with batter. Samosas are more like inside the batter, they're vegetables. Thank you.

You're welcome. Now. Okay. Now this is John Hodgman again. Now begin the walk me through the flirting. What happened? What did you see happen? In role play mode? Yes, of course. Hi, how are you today? I'm well, I'm good. I'm really glad to hear that. So, you know what? How can I help you guys today? Well, I think I mentioned before the samosas and pecoras, and I appreciate the definition you gave of both because I was legitimately confused about that. That's all right. Even in my guise as Judge John Hodgman, I'd like to eat some of this foreign food to assuage my anxiety about my receding hairline.

Well, your hairline's not receding. You look great. Now, did she say that? No, she did not. No, she didn't at all. Thank you. That didn't happen. If she did say that you look great, then we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

What would have happened if she had said, you look great? Oh. You never know. Excuse me. I don't know. The conversation was probably something more along the lines of, so are you guys a hunter? Right.

To which Patrick would have responded, oh, I'm actually currently in school. I go to UK, which is around, I don't know, like 100 miles away. Now, this is you recounting your memories, not what probably happened. But as best as you can remember. Yes, precisely.

As best as I can remember, yes, you're right. Patrick said something about the fact that he was in college and you were a mere high school student still. Yes. And she mentioned something about her classes. Yes. What classes was she taking? That I don't remember, Your Honor.

But she then engaged in a conversation with Patrick that lasted for quite a few moments. If you were to estimate, knowing that you're a terrible judge of time and ages, if you were to estimate five to ten minutes, this is before the order was taken? Yes, this was before the order was taken, and I would say around three to six minutes. All right, three to six minutes. And the entire time that she was talking to Patrick, she was speaking to Patrick. I presume she had her back to you or had covered your head with a velvet black sack or something? Metaphorically, yes, yes, Your Honor. I don't remember saying anything other than, other to her other than, you know, please bring me a chicken tikka masala.

And Patrick, you tried to get that in edgewise as these two are having their little... Precisely. I understand. And then she took the order, you ordered chicken tikka masala patrick ordered uh patrick ordered uh what did what did he order a sock paneer probably a nice choice patrick yeah that's my favorite yeah me too good job uh and then she went away now next question when she came back to give you the food, did she continue the conversation or was that the end of the flirting? In my memory, the conversation did continue. If you were to ask me about what, I don't precisely remember. But they did continue talking again while I was left alone.

While you slowly cut yourself with a knife in order to remind yourself that you were still alive? Precisely, yes, Your Honor. I see. Patrick, what classes was she taking? Oh, you know, I have no clue. I don't remember what classes she was taking. It could have been something like, it might have been something like journalism classes,

but I really have no clue At this point in time Now, is that because you have a vague memory Of maybe journalism classes Or you're just picking out a class at random Well, you got me Did she look like a journalism major? She had a pen in her breast pocket

She had a pen in her breast pocket Well, we all know that in Kentucky That is a well well-known signal for I would like to hug and kiss you. Yes. We have strange customs. When one goes cruising for heterosexual hookups in Indian restaurants in Kentucky, that is how you indicate that you are available. What else did you notice about this one? What did she look like, Michael? I mainly remember seeing the back of her head and neck because she was not speaking to me. So neither of you actually fell in love with this young woman?

Unfortunately, no. I know. It's sad, isn't it? What if she's listening right now? Pining away forevermore. And when she came back, did you have other, do you have any memories of any further conversation? I don't know. I think that Michael had made me self-conscious at this point, almost the fact that I'd never thought about her wanting to do that

before whenever we were, I suppose, chatting. Whenever he pointed this thought out, this idea out, I was very, very, I guess that I had become very shy, perhaps. shy, perhaps, and that I mainly just was trying to be as polite as possible whenever she brought us, you know, any of the food or any of the water. Right. But she actually didn't come out very much. It's not that she wasn't a very good waitress. I wouldn't say that. She didn't, like, come out and check on us and say, you know, like, so you guys want

some dessert? You know, all the time, every five minutes or something. So I don't know. Very brief whenever she did, whenever we did interact from that point on, I'd say. Okay, Jesse, would you just mark in the record that when I asked Patrick the last question, he answered, but I don't remember what the question was. So noted. Wait, what was the question? I don't know.

Do you recall any of the conversation that happened afterward? And your answer, I think, was, you don't really recall that much about it, and it may be because you were so shocked and made so self-conscious by Michael calling you fat and bald that you were thrown off your otherwise unimpeachable game. Yeah. All right. Do you believe that you are shy normally?

I feel like I used to be much more shy. I feel like each year to be much more shy. I feel like each year that passes, I become less shy. Let's put it that way. But I've always been somewhat shy in these circumstances, especially in these circumstances. All right. You certainly seem like someone who's able to have a conversation. And you certainly seem like a nice fellow.

And Michael, you submitted some evidence. Is that right? I submitted one single photograph, a very low quality photograph of Patrick and myself. Yes. I see. And this is the most recent picture of the two of us taken. So this is a recent photograph. I'm seeing here.

I have it here in front of me. But I'm here two weeks ago, the last time Patrick visited me. Yes. Yes, your honor. And it was taken inside of a Disneyland dark ride after the power had gone out? Is that what happened? It would appear as such, but I believe we were at a karaoke bar at the time. Oh, okay. Fantastic. What songs did you sing? I sang Tiptoe Through the Tulips and Ignition Remix. Okay. And Patrick, did you sing a song? Oh, yes, it was my idea to go. I sing Space Oddity, and it's a living,

I totally butchered a living thing by the Electric Light Orchestra, and that one song by The Cure, what is it? Show me, show me, show me how you... I forget the name. Just Like Heaven. That's it. Ah, very well. That sounded very good, by the way.

So what I have here... So which one is you, Michael? You are the one with the glasses, correct? Yes, Your Honor. So the other person I'm looking at here is Patrick? Yes, Your Honor. And Patrick, you have a beautiful full head of hair here. Yes, I do.

Yeah, your hair is not... I haven't gotten bald right okay and yeah uh and you're you're a very handsome dude i have to say patrick thank you sir well and uh and yeah and you uh and you've got a lovely uh a lovely sort of um uh southern uh charm to you, obviously. A kind of slow burn, let me tell you a story kind of charm to you. I'm not making fun of you, Patrick. This is all true.

No, I know you're not. This is very nice. Whereas, Michael, you kind of look like a doughy John Hodgman clone. But it gets better. You do have a jaw, you have a jaw line. So that's good. And it seems,

and based on what I can see here, like Patrick's wearing a nice t-shirt to the karaoke. You're, you're wearing a sort of John Hodgman style button up shirt and sweater vest. It almost looks like to me here. That is precisely what I'm wearing. I go very few, I go nowhere without wearing a collar. I go very few places without wearing a tie.

Yes. This is because, as you said, you use the word doughy. I don't know if I would use John Hodgman clone to describe myself, although that is flattering. When you compare Patrick and myself, one of us has to try harder than the other. That's very clear. And I would say that would be me. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. You are the, So you are the Cyrano de Bergerac in this situation. Yes, yes, Your Honor. Because you're sitting there watching this poor woman, this poor young woman, fall in love with your handsome, non-hairline receding friend. Yes.

This poor guy, she won't even look at you. Yes, Your Honor. Right. Yes. And this poor guy doesn't even notice that she's in love with him. Precisely. I think the root of the issue is

I've actually been in a monogamous relationship since I was 16. Well, welcome to the club, young John. So, I mean, it is of no use to me if other people flirt with me. I only want what's best for my friend, and I make the perfect wingman in so many ways because there's no chance of me stealing uh any potential uh mate with whom patrick could uh hook up well we don't have to we don't have to put in those terms

you want good things and happiness for your friend in the same way you want him to have a full head of hair not that there's no chance that i'm going to cuckold him well um both statements are true. I apologize for being that. Does Patrick have a problem getting ladies? Nowhere near as much as he used to have. Did he used to have a problem because he was terrified of his hairline receding and he was shyer than he is now?

Perhaps. I mean, I will also say that Patrick is just one of the most likable people I've met, and people are often kind and polite to him. So I think that he has a hard time picking up on that specific type of kindness and politeness whenever people are displaying further interest in him. I think that he does have a hard time reading it because he's so used to people being polite to him because he is so affable. Does that hold any water with you, Patrick? Well, I suppose that it does, but I'm not sure. I think that at some point in my life, whenever I was 16, I was quite shy, did not really pick up on signals

yes however I will admit as well I don't know if I put it in a way that I'm used to people being polite to me I think that it's a little bit more complicated maybe that is true

I guess yes I'm not going to go on that holds water for me. I'll say that. Jesse, enter in the record that the defendant said yes. Don't notice. Michael? Yes, Your Honor. It is a waitress's job to be polite. What is the one thing that gave you the impression, since you've never seen a woman flirt with you ever in your life, what is the one thing that gave you the impression for certain that she was flirting with Patrick rather than simply doing her job and professionally engaging with him in a polite way?

The fact that she was not professionally engaging with me in that same polite way. And I will admit to being, you know, slightly less social than Patrick. Not ridiculously so, but slightly. And perhaps the onus is on me in that respect. But Patrick has already admitted to feeling, you know, shyer and more self-conscious. So obviously the engaging, the person who engaged would have to, would have had to have been her. And she took it, she did not take it upon herself to, to engage me in any way, shape or form. Patrick, do you have 10 or 20 last things

that you'd like to say at this point? I have at least one, uh, fast forward to 2012. And it is, I suppose, February of 2012. I'm in Logan County. Michael is in Logan County for the first time in a year and a half. How long was it? A year and a half, two years. A year and a half, two years. You guys sure like having little conversations about measuring time. It's a hobby. Logan County, Kentucky. All right, Michael's back to Logan County, Kentucky for the first time, and we'll say a while. We're having a night on the town.

I've had a little bit to drink. I decide to say, well, whenever we're at the steak and shake, we're at the steak and shake after we're done, after I'm done. I think I was the only person drinking at night, thankfully. Michael had, you know, the ability to drive a car. He didn't drink at all, so he was driving. This lady, waitress, this young lady, she came up and she was, I was able to definitely tell, yes, she is flirting with me. I can tell when I'm drunk. But she, Michael pointed this out to me and I said, yeah, I know, right?

And so I gave her my number. And that was a stupid idea. That was a stupid thing to do. And, you know, nothing ever came of it. So, and she was like, I know for a fact, she was flirting with me much, in a much more intense way than this other lady was.

So, I don't want to go into details about it. But she definitely was able to tell. What was the one thing she did? And I gave her my number definitely was able to tell. What was the one thing that she did that gave you the cue that suggested that she was doing more than just politely engaging you in a professional way that made you think that you could give her your number? I mean, obviously, she had her pen arrayed on the right left. Yeah, she had her little pen out. It was just the way she was laughing at what I was saying didn't seem like she was laughing at me. It seemed like she was laughing at what I was saying.

I think I have everything I need to make my decision. I'm going to my chambers now, and I'll be back in just a moment. Oh, all right. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Patrick, do you want Michael's help? I wouldn't mind his help. It's just that it needs to come from a very genuine place, you know. It doesn't need to— Do you think that his help is

insincere in some way? Not necessarily, it's just that he doesn't need to I feel like he has a problem with hyperbole he exaggerates way too much about things and whenever it's the smallest thing, he

Are we talking about your junk? No Michael It's the smallest thing. He has a habit of... Are we talking about your junk? No. Michael, do you think you've got a shot in this case? I think justice will prevail here. I mean, I do think that, you know, I hope that Judge John Hodgman sees that my intentions are only to be a good winged man to my friend and to to to only usher him along in the journey of, you know, finding a potential partner and that I only want what's best for him. Very well. Please rise. Please rise. Shut your pie hole. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Boy, that was the worst case of shut your pie hole baiting I've ever seen in this court. It's like someone can't come into this court without, they don't feel the experience is complete until Jesse Thorne tells them to shut their pie hole. I feel like I'm so attuned to buzz marketing, I'm not even noticing the shut your piehole baiting. Here's the thing. Patrick, that girl was flirting with you. I fully trust Michael in this case because I look at this photograph.

Okay. And you're a handsome young dude, which is fine. Handsome young dudes get hit on, and sometimes they miss it, particularly if they are feeling extremely self-conscious about their bodies, thanks to the unwise words of their best friends. But also because your hair is not receding, and it probably never was. If it's not receding now, it wasn't then. and it probably never was.

If it's not receding now, it wasn't then. And therefore, I have to conclude that you are not always the best judge of the objective reality around you. Now, young Michael, this guy, this John Hodgman clone, monogamous at the age of 16, this guy, all he's doing is devoted to making sure your

hair is as lustrous as possible so that you can have as full a romantic life as you can. So, I rule in the plaintiff's favor in this case, which is to say that I do believe

that Michael's sense of flirtation is attuned and is worth listening to. What you do with this information, of course, Patrick, is entirely up to you. And you should, first of all, forgive him for calling you fat and bald. And second of all… Oh, I forgive you. Yeah, and second of all, you know, bring him out

to some karaoke nights. Not that you wouldn't anyway. But, you know, let him do his job and listen to his counsel because I think that in some ways he is wise,

like Cyrano. And in many ways I would wise, like Cyrano. And in many ways, I would say that, like Cyrano, you might take a little bit of advice from him, which is to say, without reducing any of your lovely charm, of which you have buckets, believe me, and you're a good-looking dude with a full head of hair and everything else, you might get to the point a little bit more. If young women are something that you want to have in your life, I think they'll appreciate the decisiveness of a simple sentence said plainly. That said, I still don't think you're going to have any problems because you're a good-looking guy.

Now, Michael, my friend in sweater vests, I'm happy that you are in love. I'm happy that you're in love and a wonderful monogamous relationship. You're going to have a wonderful time. Do not live vicariously through your more handsome friend. I speak to you as a brother here, you understand. Yes, sir. Do not attempt to live vicariously through your more handsome friend.

There is a song for both of you to sing at karaoke, if you know what I mean. And I do keep on the alert for those moments that he might miss, but not over-alert him. Because remember, even though he is a classically handsome fellow with a nice head of hair, who probably could eat clarified butter all day long and not gain a pound, and whereas you and I are both bespectacled weirdos wearing sweater vests, you have two things going for you.

You have not grown a mustache and you have something else as Cyrano de Berger acted panache. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Patrick, briefly, how are you feeling? Come on, Patrick.

Well, I must say that this podcast has definitely raised my self-esteem by bucket loads, as he says. Michael, how are you feeling? I have mixed feelings now. Of course, I do feel good that this argument is over and that, you know, Patrick has sworn allegiance to Judge John Hodgkin's

ruling. He will have to listen to me from now on. Although, I do, with Patrick's self-esteem bolstered so high, I think mine is being crushed to the dust. You don't need it. I guess that's true. What am's stuff, it's being bolstered so high. I think mine is being crushed to the dust. You don't need it. I guess that's true. What am I doing with it?

You have a girlfriend. Yeah, that's true. Well, Patrick, Michael, thank you very much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Thank you for having us. Judge Hodgman, are you flirting with me? What? You didn't notice the pen in my breast pocket? Judge Hodgman, are you flirting with me? Well, you didn't notice the pen in my breast pocket? I just assumed that you had to take a lot of legal notes, but... Being as though we're not in Kentucky...

Is that a Sharpie in your pocket, or are you just trying to take my order? Listen, before things get unprofessional, why don't we clear the docket? Okay, I'll take my pants off. What? I'm sorry. I think you misunderstood. Here's a letter from Kat. A few years ago, my best friend Robert and I visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Braggy. Yeah. No, duh. At that time, the museum suggested a $15 admission fee for adults and $7 for students. Robert bought his ticket first for $15. Then I approached and placed a $20 bill on the counter and then asked if any type of documentation was needed

to obtain the student rate. I am not a student, but was inquiring for a friend. The employee stated that no proof was required, and then gave me my change and an admittance pin. It wasn't until I had walked a few feet away that I realized she'd only charged me the student rate. Robert argues that I should have gone back to the desk and paid the additional eight dollars because i was not a student the employee at the desk made an incorrect assumption there's also the technicality that the 15 price is recommended not required and i seriously didn't notice the error until i was already inside the museum was i in the wrong? The answer is no, you were not in the wrong.

The reason is that, as you point out, the Metropolitan Museum of Art has a suggested or recommended admission price of $15. That is to say, you could pay $15, you can pay $1, you can pay $0, you can pay in shiny shells and living beetles, and they will still let you in there.

It's all made up. It was an honest misunderstanding, additionally, between you and the person who was giving you the little pin, and to go back and to explain to her that you were actually asking for a friend and actually wanting to pay the additional amount of money, and you're so very sorry, and there clearly was a misunderstanding, would have simply made that person want to strangle you and would not have helped in any way. The situation, which was very clear, that you got a little freebie that day,

no big deal. That said, Metropolitan Museum of Art is a good institution worth supporting. When asked for a voluntary donation, you do not have to give, but I think it will make you feel better and will ultimately make your friend Robert stop hounding you. If the next time you go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, you slip a tenner into the donation box in addition to your recommended $15, then everyone's happy and you get to see some suits of armor and stuff. Now, can I take my pants off? You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast

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Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-E Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O

Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne,

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