Judge John Hodgman - Junk, and this Quarterly

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

How many dog magazines are TOO MANY dog magazines to have stacked next to the toilet? Simon brings his wife, Liz, to court to find out! Simon says that Liz's stack of veterinary medical journals next to the toilet needs to GO. She says that she is going to read them... EVENTUALLY! Who's right? Who's wrong?We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman. And don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! And if you listen on PocketCasts, you can start rating the show now! Go to https://pocketcasts.com/ratings for more. Thanks to reddit user u/baltinerdist for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court is happening NOW! Get your tickets at maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This week, junk and this quarterly, Simon brings the case against his wife, Liz. Liz is an avid subscriber to the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. She keeps a big stack of back issues right next to the toilet. Simon says, toss the magazines. Liz doesn't care what Simon says. She's going to read them. Eventually. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure

cultural reference. People ask me, aren't you proud of yourself? I tell them, no, not in the slightest. I've done so much harm and made so many charlatans quite rich. I opened a Pandora's box and I released a Frankenstein's monster. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the lid against him. Simon and Liz, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever. Yes. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has a competing interest having been the former Food and Wine columnist for Men's Journal Magazine, the premier American magazine of men's journaling? Yes. Yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Do you like how I stole your old joke? Simon and Liz, you may be seated. I love it. But I must clarify. I myself have a fondness for magazines. Indeed, I was a magazine-er. Having written for New York Times magazine, as I still do,

the Judge John Hodgman column net appears there every week. You can submit disputes to that at maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. And as I still do, the Judge John Hodgman column net appears there every week. You can submit disputes to that at maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. But I was also the food and I have to slight correction of specifically non wine alcohol columnist. Oh, thank you. Even I could not stretch my imposter syndrome to encompass wine expertise. That tested my fraudulency for Men's Journal.

Thank you, Mark Adams, for putting me on the road. It was an incredible opportunity to eat a lot of free food. But this dispute is about magazines, so Simon and Liz, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom? I was quoting a person. I wonder if either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom? I was quoting a person.

I wonder if either of you know who that person is and what they were talking about. Simon, why don't we start with you? I would say that that was Mark Lewis in writing in his first of his three part series on the biography of the Beatles. Tune in. Very specific. The first of his three-part series on the biography of the Beatles tune in very specific Very very prepared and very very obscure to me bad news It was Peter Guralnick writing in last train to Memphis the first of his multi-volume biography of Elvis Presley Okay, so you're a music guy, established Simon,

but this is about magazines, specifically magazines regarding cats and dogs and other animals, because Liz, you are a veterinarian, correct? That's right. Not a hobbyist. You don't have a subscription to the Journal of American Veterinary and Medicine

Medical Association just because you're a lurker. That's right. I have a feeling since I came up with this obscure cultural reference that it might have more to do with cats and dogs and other animals than it does with the beetles. Although I guess the beetles are animals too, argue. Okay, I see your point now.

I've come around to you, Simon, good guess. But now Liz, it's your turn to guess. What is your guess, if I may ask? Would it help if I told you that it was an article, it's from an article in the New York Times, that's a newspaper, that has a magazine called New York Times Magazine. I believe it was 2019, September 25th, 2019. September 25th? Great question. Great question. I question. Access your memory palace. Go back to the September room. Hmm. 25th. I don't know what page it is because I got it on the on the

Internet edition. Judge Hodgeman, you weren't counting on our litigant being Mary Lou Hinner. No, I wasn't. Does she have perfect recall? She does. I believe she has perfect recall. Yeah. That's incredible. I wish I had Mary Lou Henner here to ask. I wish we had Judd Hirsch here. That would be great. No. Hey you know what? I love Judd Hirsch. I love Mary Lou Henner. We've got Simon and Liz. The best. So now it's time Liz for you to guess. I bought you as much time.

Did you have a guest prepared? No, I did not. I wanted it to be relevant to actually what you were saying. What's your favorite TV show? Oh my gosh, my favorite TV show. It's gotta be All Creatures Great and Small. Sure. So your guess is All Creatures Great and Small?

What? I haven't seen it. What? I haven't seen it. I know tragic. I've read it to be fair. That is fair. I read it when I was small. Is that your guess?

All creatures great and small? Sure. Season four season finale, would you say? Of course. September 25th. Terrific guess. All guesses are wrong. The quote is from Wally Conron.

I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, C-O-N-R-O-N. As quoted in the New York Times, 925, 2019, with regard to his deepest regret, creating the Labradoodle. He is a dog breeder, and he was tasked with breeding a relatively hypoallergenic dog, guide dog,

for a vision impaired woman whose husband was very allergic to dogs. So he came up with this idea to, you know, when a poodle and a labrador love each other very much, They get together with Wally Conron, they create a Labradoodle, and he did not, he was not, he was not very happy, because the demand skyrocketed, leading to some even worse than usual breeding practices to create as many

Labradoodles as possible. And this is a quote from him, I find that the biggest majority of these dogs are either crazy or have a hereditary problem. And Amy Murphy counters, Amy Murphy, of course, being the president of the Australian Labradoodle club of America, begged to differ quoting, all dogs are crazy. I feel like I can't comment on that

because I'd be insulting so many of my patients. You got a lot of Labradoodles come through. I know, exactly. Wally Conrad has said this over and over again. It's his deepest regret creating the Labradoodles. But you know, I've met many Labradoodles and they're very spirited and fun. And I'll leave it at that.

All right, so who seeks justice in this courtroom? That is me. Simon, you want Liz to get rid of her big magazine pile. This is a big magazine pile in the bathroom. How long has it been there? It has been there for as long as I can remember. Is your earliest memory? He is a goldfish.

In this house. We've been in the house now for 10 years almost. Okay, and you're married. And how long have you been married for? For 12 years. And I believe you're in San Antonio, Texas. Yep. Sorry, I didn't mean to say Texas that way.

I don't even know why that came out though. That's what we say. Terrific. Yeah, that's right. Go call an Allred. So anyway, and it bothers you. Yes. You find it to be unsightly.

Yes. Let's take a look at it. You send in a photo of this and all the photos of course will be available at the Judge Sean Hodgson show page at maxmanfun.org as well as on our Instagram. And here's the pile of magazines. Ooh, Liz, this does not look good.

These are, first of all, I can't keep saying the Journal of American Veterinary and Medical Association or whatever, it's very hard to say. So I'm gonna go by their own abbreviation, which is Javma. That's right. Javma's a thick book, you know? And it comes out every two weeks, so they really. It comes out every two weeks. I mean really... It comes out every two weeks?

I mean, this looks like the, I don't know, like the Vogue holiday issue. I haven't seen thick magazines like this since the 90s. This is unusual. They must have a lot of advertising in Java. No, it's actually all research articles, so they tend to be pretty long. They don't have a bunch of perfume inserts Smell what they had to offer John in his mind is just absolutely Expensing dinner at Le Cirque to job. Absolutely doing it right now. This one will be on Java

But I mean Jesse Thorne is there or is there not dog cologne? Sure. I believe that there's dog cologne. I don't know that there's dog cologne, but it seems like there would be. Should we come up with our own brand of dog cologne? I think so. I mean, I'll ask, I'll ask, ask a veterinarian, Liz, should we put cologne on dogs or what? Is that good for them or bad for them?

The only context in which I use dog cologne, because I do use it regularly. Oh, here we go. After we have expressed their anal glands, they smell really bad and you have to mask it. That's no joke, that's a medical thing. That's why I wear cologne. I learned a lot in so short a time just then.

So only for after glands use, got it. Okay, how many, this is a tall pile of printed material. I'm guessing that there may be between 20, 25, 30, maybe even issues here, is that right? I think it was more that we would have 45 maybe. 45, it's almost reaching the seat. That's correct. You could almost put a cup of coffee on top of there.

It's almost a side table of Javma. And so Liz, you're a subscriber. Tell me a little bit about Javma. What does that give you? The news on the latest dog models or what? Like they tell you what dogs are coming out this year? Reviews? No, it is actually research articles. the latest dog models or what? Like they tell you what dogs are coming out this year, reviews? No, it is actually research articles.

So it's, you know, they're medical articles. And so I'm a member of the AVMA, so the American Veterinary Medical Association. And so we received this. It's one of the main publications. There are lots of different veterinary medical publications, but this is... You get it for being a member.

Yes, exactly. Is this the premier professional journal of veterinarians? Yes, I would say so. Or is it the fiery young upstart? It is the premier. Okay. So you have to have it for professional reasons. That's right. And how often do you sit down and read a Javma?

Maybe once every morning, perhaps? On maybe what we call a regular schedule? So that is the intention. And some of these articles, they're very long articles, but you can kind of get the information you need from reading the abstract or maybe the results or conclusion depending on what you're interested in. Right. The problem is that over the last, you know, for no particular reason, four to eight years,

I've taken to doom scrolling news articles on my phone. Oh, okay. Instead of working through your stack of jobmas. That's right. So, yeah, they have been slightly neglected. And you know, I do feel like it's important information. It's a little complicated because they're also available digitally.

So whenever I search for a relevant topic, I can find it on my digital kind of veterinary boards. Got it. So the, but there are abstracts. So Jesse, you probably know this in academic journals. They're quite long and detailed, the articles. But there's often what's called an abstract. On the internet, they call it TLDR.

That's right. Stands for toilet length, deep reading. I'm not familiar with abstracts. I'm familiar with verses from the abstract, the Tribe Called Quest song. Ah, there it is. So I got it back in the day when I was a teenager before I had status.

Before I had a page or... You could find the abstract listening to him pop. Pops used to say it reminded him of bebop. I said, well, daddy, don't you know that things, et cetera. Cycles. The way that Bobby Brown is just amping like Michael. Yeah, I remember that world. Yeah.

Great song. Great song. Great song. Simon, it looks like you've opened one of these magazines that you have gained to touch to show a certain page, a certain diagram. We have this in the exhibit A, underneath the caption dumb pile.

Did you select this page to feature for us? No, no. So after we went through the process of submitting the story and getting interviewed and selected, I came in a few days later and that's what I found looking at me. Oh, okay. This is just what you discovered. Yes, exactly. And that's why I consider that passive aggressive. I think she was trying to, you know, throw it in my face, prove a point. You know, she's reading it, you know, throw it in my face, prove a point. You know, she's reading it, but look at what she's reading.

Why don't we look at what she's reading? Liz, can you explain what this diagram is illustrating? I can, I can. This poor German Shepherd up top. Figure A, there's figure A, B, C, and D in this. He has EPI, so he does not digest his food well. And so he has diarrhea with fat in it. That's what they're accused of.

Wow. And I had a case of EPI that I was treating. I'm so sorry to hear that. No. Okay, in a dog. I never treated dog unless I have had the same thing as the dog. And so I was reading this relevant article

and was mid reading this relevant article and was mid reading this article and I left it open to resume at a later date. This was not a passive aggressive move. This was medical research. Just to be clear, this diagram shows, it's an A, figure A, B, C, and D. Figure A looks like an illustration

or maybe a photograph of a German shepherd. And figure B is a photograph of what you call diarrhea with fat in it. Boy, oh boy, have I made the children who listen to this show very happy today or what. Then figure C is another German shepherd and figure D is what, Liz? I'll make you say it. So C is actually the same Shepherd after treatment and D which is the perfectly formed stool is that Shepherd's stool after treatment. Oh god or whatever I can't believe we finally after how many years we got someone to say

perfectly formed stool on the top. Even the East German judge agrees. Holy holy guacamole. Holy. Well, okay, so this is the same German Shepherd now looking much more Hale and Hardy. I mean, I don't know. If I were coming to relieve myself at the toilet and this was facing me

face up on a stack Simon says it was passive aggression. You say just relevant reading information. What's the truth? I mean, I have a good story. I can actually tell you the dog's name, the case that I'm working on, the dog's name is Sherman. And so you have gleaned some information

from these journals, but you suggest that you don't read them regularly. Before Sherman came into your office, when was the last time you looked at one of these 40 journals? Six months, maybe? Six months maybe? Six months. And may I verify that you were researching Sherman's condition

while yourself sitting down in the bathroom? Yes. Not to be too personal, but I mean, you put them there. That's right. Generally when you're sitting down in the bathroom, you're not working through the stack. That's not a euphemism. That's a real thing. I'm not reading the magazines. So gross.

Unfortunately. But I have this kind of optimistic idea that one day I will. What's the oldest issue in the stack? December 2020. Yeah, December 15, 2020, volume 257, number 12. We will not post this on our Instagram because it has your name and address on it because you are, after all, a subscriber. But it has a wonderful, almost impressionistic painting of three very curious looking pigs.

But I mean, is the information in this issue of Javma even still relevant? I mean, are you really going to go back and read this one? Okay, so you know, veterinary medicine doesn't have as much funding as human medicine. They don't redo the same studies every few years. So usually the information is going to be pretty relevant as to whether or not I'm going to get to it. Again, that's the kind of the optimistic idea

that I will get to this valuable information. Obviously you're reading these magazines in private. So Simon, you can't verify how often or not often that Liz is actually reading these. So Liz, I need to rely on you to be honest here. Okay. You haven't read these magazines. You've got four years worth of Javma under your toilet and you don't really read them.

And you only read about German Shepherd poop because you knew you were going to be on this podcast and you needed to come up with something to say, right? That's my accusation. That's my accusation. That is untrue. I actually stumbled across that article and then, because I was actually reading it. So I guess prior to that, it had been six months. And then I stumbled across the article and I went, hey, I'm actually treating a case of this right now.

This is relevant, thus proving my point. Have you read any other articles in any of those Javmas within the past year? I read other articles in that particular Javmas, that was the one I picked up and I was leafing through. Is this one still on top of the pile? Yeah, it would be.

And we've added more since then that are now in a pile next to the fridge instead of in the bathroom. So there's four or five. Oh. Wait, when you say you read other articles in that same issue, do you mean that there was one instance of reading wherein you read this one that was relevant and also looked at some other ones, then put it down and never touched it again?

That would be a fair characterization. Yes. Realistically, in the current configuration, how long will it take you to get through the information that... You don't have to read cover to cover. Yes. But like, how long does it take for you to... All these words sound gross at this point, but let's just say process one issue. Okay.

Okay, and I will point out that this is the, you know, veterinary journal. So I treat dogs and cats and I only read articles that are relevant to dogs and cats, because really I'm looking for, you know, what's clinically relevant for me. Yeah, of course. So like half the articles right now. We all skipped the bird section. So you know, I can probably get the valuable information that I want out of one issue in maybe half an hour.

Half an hour? Yes. And on a daily basis. So I'm just trying to do the math here. Simon, what is your career? Are you a mathematician? Are you a magazine mathematician by any chance? I am not, I've been a stay at home dad

and I'm in grad school right now. For what, if I may ask? Social work. Oh, wonderful. But hey, both very admirable careers. Good jobs. Literal good jobs. But Simon, let's do the math together then. Yes. Half an hour, that's 40 issues. That's 20 hours of reading.

And then you're getting a new one every every other week. It's worse than you thought, Simon. See, that's how it piles up so quickly. Wow. You were giving me less credit. Simon, what magazines do you want to stack next to the toilet? There are I would like to replace it. There's nothing I want to put there.

Not nothing at all. No, not yet. I mean, like you said to replace it. There's nothing I want to put there. Nothing at all. Nope, not yet. I mean, like you said, maybe once I get my social work degree, I'll have my own magazines that I can start piling up next to it, depending on what the verdict is. But as of now, nothing. Magazines are not my thing. Judge Hodgman, this is the problem with the American magazine industry.

You can only subscribe to magazines relevant to your advanced degrees. Absolutely. industry. You can only subscribe to magazines relevant to your advanced degrees. Absolutely. That's why I subscribe to cat fancy. Because I'm a professional cat fancier. That's why I subscribe to the Journal of People Who Went to Broadcasting School for Three Weeks. I love magazines, but they are a scourge. They do come into your house and they never leave. Simon let me clarify.

This is a shared bathroom? Yes. Is it the only bathroom? It is the bathroom for our bedroom. Do you have children who are not for children? Because I know you have a lot of animals. Yes, we have non-fur. We have two non-furred 15-year-old boys, twins.

Oh, okay. Do they have their own bathroom? Yes. I bet that's a hellhole. Yeah. A trade. Just so I know, is there potentially, is there a half bath somewhere,

or a third bathroom that could become the home to your Javma collection, Liz? No, it would be more like the guest powder room, so I feel like that would be even a worse lateral move. Why? Because you don't want to reveal to your guests that this is one of your things? Oh, yes. that's right. So there is some shame associated

with your pile of Javmas. Yes, to be fair, both professional shame and maybe like a little bit of a hygiene issue, if I'm honest. Why professional shame? Are you afraid that guests will come in and go, oh my gosh, she is not keeping up with her Javmas. That's right.

I'm not bringing my dog or cat to her anymore. Do you have your own practice? Are you working in practice or what? I'm working in practice. I'm just gonna tell everyone, Liz is the best veterinarian. If you see some Javmas around, you should be happy. Don't be like judging her,

like, oh, she's not reading her Javmas. She's got the subscription, She's working on it. So Simon, it says here that you are not opposed to piles of things in your house per se, but that you favor what is, I think this is a quote from you, piles with purpose. What does a pile with purpose mean to you? Well, just as a pile of things that are used at some point. We're not opposed to piles. We say we're pile people.

Some things are just, it's easy if it's in a pile, you know, you have easy access. If you can sort of, if you know the, I guess, geography of the pile. And so I don't piles in of themselves that are rotated through are fine. What are some other examples of the piles in your home? In fact, we have some evidence, Jesse, if you'd like to take a look, but I'll let Simon describe what we're seeing here. These are exhibit B piles with purpose.

First example, bathroom. Yes, so this is our shared bathroom and that pile there basically from the Tylenol on the right all the way to the left is Liz's pile and to the right is mine. And so contained within that pile, I assume is everything that she needs to. I mean, you're definitely pile people. I mean, I don't know how to describe this other than a big pile of, you know, sundries, hygiene supplies, vitamins, pills, deodorants, et cetera. When you say that on the left is Liz's pile of what, everything on earth? Yeah, basically.

And the thing is, is I should take credit or not credit, but some blame because it is my job to sort of maintain the pile source, you know, so I take things down, clear off the surfaces and then reassemble it into, I guess, a more ordered pile that then over time. Which version is this in your mind? This is this is at the very end. This is just before it was ordered. Okay.

Because this feels, I mean, this look, we've discussed it many times on this podcast that the people have different sensitivity to clutter. And I have a very low tolerance for clutter. And I would seem that you have a very high tolerance. And I say that respectfully. But may I ask, let's look at a couple of other purposeful piles here. Jesse, are you seeing this bathroom now?

This bathroom is wild. This is a size, first of all, all right, this is a sizable bathroom. Yeah. These two are living like monarchs in this bathroom San Antonio. Everything's bigger in Texas as a gargantuan corner bathroom and they have probably I'm gonna call it six feet of counter space in this bathroom Yeah, not counting the sinks just six feet in between the sinks. No, this is a corner situation, double vanity.

There's a sink on either end of this corner, L-shaped countertop, every centimeter of which is filled with a thing. There are cabinets in this bathroom. I wanna be clear. I can't emphasize enough that immediately underneath this layer of bathroom product is a set of cabinets.

Yeah, what happened to the cabinets there, Simon? Did you accidentally fill them up with sand or something? You can't fit anything in there? No, they are full, but if, like, if you were to open up one of those cabinet doors, it would, things would fall out, that's for sure. The drawers though, they contain, they're good good you have more bathroom things than the things that are on this counter we do the best part of this is what are you doing in this bathroom I mean besides studying it is because like we need service or we're

not actually we're not high maintenance people. We don't take long to get ready or anything like that. So it doesn't, doesn't really, it doesn't make sense now that we're talking about it more. I, I'm confused too. One of the beauties of this photo, which do you want us to share this with the world? We are not ashamed. Okay.

We're not ashamed who we are. One of the, one of the beautiful things about this photo, which you can see on our Instagram page, etc. is that not only is this L-shaped counter covered in stuff that you use every day in the bathroom, normal stuff, but also it's up against an L-shaped mirror. So the whole thing is doubled. Yeah, this is like a last dragon Bruce Lee bathroom mess. Fighting, fighting against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in a house of mirrors.

Now, this is the Judge John Hodgman podcast and you forgive me for being naturally judgmental. But let me dial it back for a second to say that as we've discussed in the podcast many times, people have different tolerance levels for what you might call clutter. And that's fine. This is well beyond my tolerance level, but I don't live in your house. My question is, do you have equal,

like when you both look at this bathroom situation, are you both equally okay with it? We are, we have a matched high tolerance for clutter. Okay, well, I, yeah, it would seem so because look at these other photos too. Boy, oh boy, are you pile people or what? There's the closet, there's a bunch of clothes piled on top of, again, what I can only presume

is drawers full of other clothes. Yes, there's a reason for that. And I mean, and what's the reason for that? Okay, so Simon does the laundries, very sweet of him. That is very nice. I work long hours and so, and I don't like to add more work for him. So if I've worn something for a few hours and then I think to myself, this is not dirty, I'm going to wear this again.

Instead of putting it in the hamper to be washed, I put it on top of the dresser. I think Judge John Hodgman listeners know that what you're supposed to do is take it off and put it in a shared bin by the front door so that other people can pull it out of there and put it on later. That's a reference to our very controversial,

apparently sock box episode that came out recently. So when you take off clothes that you intend to wear again, instead of putting them in the hamper, you say you put them, you put them aside so that you will wear them again by putting them aside. I mean, you throw them from across the room to land on top of this dresser. Maybe. It's hard for me to see where the dresser ends. So Simon, why are these piles, piles with purpose?

Whereas Liz's pile is purposeless. Okay. Because you go through that fairly regularly, but there's also stuff on the bottom of there that might be as old as some of the magazines and then the bathroom, same thing, it's stuff that is used and... It's routinely touched and used by you. It has purpose in your life, whereas these magazines have no purpose in your life. The bathroom pile and the clothes,

those are hers. But you understand the purpose of those piles, but the purpose eludes you. That is correct. And why is that so hard to understand? This is professional research that your wife is doing on the toilet. No, and I've seen her have to, you know, to solve a case and be, you know, nose deep on the computer, finding the answers that she needs to find.

What she's not doing is going page by page through this stack of Javmas to find it. She looks it up. Well, it's a good point, Liz, because you mentioned that so many Javmas are coming in the house every other week. I mean, Cook's Illustrated is on a quarterly basis at this point. They can barely put one out. Javmas pumping out thick magazines every other week, and they're colonizing other bathrooms. Isn't this stuff online? Yeah, so it's a little complicated.

If I have a specific case, I will research, I'll look online and all sorts of journals are online and I can find that information. So looking through Java is more about finding information. It's the information that you didn't know you didn't know. Okay. Yeah, coming across an article, like a study that you didn't know was out there. You might use that information at a later date,

as opposed to researching a specific thing. But you acknowledge that you're not keeping up with your subscription and your research, your important research, correct? Yes, currently. Let me, okay, but it's been, I mean, you still have 2020 issues in there. What's your plan to get back, I hate to say it,

to a veterinarian on the horse and get through these magazines and get up to speed and up to date? That is a good question. I will say, okay, so we do have like continuing education requirements and some of it can be self-study. So last year I went to a bunch of conferences

so I didn't need any self-study hours, but this year I do plan to do some self-study hours and it will consist of reading the job list. So, okay. And what, so tell me what your, what your proposed schedule is. Well, basically before the end of December, I have, I'm going to do three hours of self-study. So I will probably go through about six of them. So three hours so that you're going to knock off six before the end of the year.

Yes. And a court as of this recording, that's 10 weeks from now, if I'm doing the math correctly. Check me, Simon. December has four weeks, November has four weeks more or less. We have about two weeks left here in October. So that's 10 weeks.

So that's, and it's every other week. So that's five new issues. Judge Hajman, Simon is in graduate school for social work. He's doing calculus and stuff. Yeah, no, I know. It's just, anyone's got to be better at math than me at this point in my brain dysfunction. But that's five.

So you're going to knock out six issues, but get five more in the meantime. So you will have essentially, effectively eliminated one. This is going to go on forever. Does that sound acceptable? Does this pay sound acceptable to you, Simon? No, it sounds undoable. Is there another place where the magazines can be?

I mean, of course, we've got plenty of places to put magazines, but it's just going to be, then they would just be there. And then I think the argument would be that just she wouldn't have ready access to them. Yeah. I didn't want them to be out of sight, out of mind. So it's kind of like a guilt trip. Insight out of mind.

This is like a visual reminder of what I'm not doing. Do you really, I mean, that can't be good for your digestion to feel guilty every time you approach the toilet. How do you feel when you see those magazines, good or bad? That's a good question. You know, like I said, I have,

I just have this kind of optimistic idea that one day I'll have time to read them. And so I'm, I want to keep them around for that reason. And sometimes I do have, I'm busy. So I don't have a lot of free time, but one day I'll have free time. Simon, do you believe her? No, she had shoulder surgery.

She didn't read a single one of them. What else? I was on a lot of drugs. I didn't realize that that plan for reading them when I was recovering from shoulder surgery was not a good plan. What could be more fun than reading about dog poop

while on medical grade pain relievers? Sounds like a great afternoon to me. What's so offensive to you about this pile so I can understand what you want me to do here, Simon? Is it that the pile is next to the toilet? Is it that the pile is, is, will never be addressed? What's, what's, what do you feel when you walk into the bathroom and you see all those magazines next to the toilet? I mean, if I'm honest, clearly I have, I could, I have a willful blindness to things like this. So

I don't, it doesn't really bother me too much, but you know, we want it to, Oh, we're wasting our time here, then goodbye. I can break. Adjust your willful blindness. Brain, black out all piles of magazines. It's gone. I mean, there is gonna come a point when it is even, see, and you say that we didn't have it,

that the pile has been there. I think we must have gotten rid of some of the piles at some point. I think you're right. Right? I think so. So we have to cycle through. So there's precedent already. Did you get rid of magazines, like you finally read them and you recycled them,

or did you give up on some? So some magazines disappeared at one point. I think that, yeah, I think he thought I wouldn't notice and I didn't. Did you dispose of a bunch of Javanas without permission, Simon? Yes or no? I do not recall.

And then she can attest to that. What are you talking about? You do not recall? I have a terrible memory. He is a goldfish. I mean, if she didn't, it was obviously me. What would you have me rule then that all the magazines go away

or only up to a certain point in time? What are you looking for here? What's the relief you're looking for, so to speak? I think it would be fair to have a certain number of magazines there and just cycle through them. What would that number be? I don't know, I think six months' worth is good. So that would be 12 at two weeks. And that you have two weeks to read the one on the bottom

before it gets taken away. And what are you gonna do? You gonna set a timer? You gonna keep track of this? Absolutely. What would this do for you? Why do you even have any standing here? Why would that be beneficial to you?

I have no standing. It wouldn't be beneficial to me until they get to the point where they... See, they used to be on top of the toilet. Then I moved them to the floor. When did the magazines break your back, Simon? When did they fall on you? And when did you move them?

It was probably around a year or so ago. Okay, wow. So, all right. And Liz, I hate to ask this, but at this point, when you consider your pile of Javmas, isn't it likely at this point that Simon has at least once peed all over them given their proximity to the toilet?

I do have some hygienic concerns, that's fair. Do you have to read them on the toilet, Liz? I'll just be blunt. Is it important to you that you be able to reach down or behind you at any given moment? Do you have to, like, is that what you want to do? You know, probably not. It's more just a matter of where else to put them.

And that seemed the best place for them to be contained and not kind of obviously in the way. You said though that you have a lot of places for magazines. What would be an alternate place? I mean, they would just vanish. I mean, they would have to be like in the office or somewhere. Wait, there's an office? There was an office this entire time?

Yeah, okay. But it's his office. What's in, what piles of purpose are in his office? Oh, yeah, actually I forgot about those files. We talked about the ones earlier. There are well, that's more organized, but there's I'm not sure I believe you but go on their books. I mean old, you know documents related to the house and You know, documents, um, related to the house and taxes and let me ask you this, let's just say for the sake of argument, you got one of those. And I don't know what your living room looks like, but I'm presuming that every

cabinet in your home is full of stuff. So there's no room for these magazines or else they'd be there. Right. Simon. Yes. What if you got one of those Ottomans that has storage inside, you pop off the top, it's like you put your feet up on top,

and then you take your feet off, pop off the top, and it's just a storage cube, right? Just hypothetically. And you put all the current issues of Javma in there and pop the lid on. Would that be okay with you, Liz? Yes, I mean, that would be a compromise, yes. That would be a compromise, but it doesn't sound like you wanna make a compromise.

So I will ask you again, why do your magazines about dog poop need to be next to the toilet? What do you get out of this? Yeah, I think the idea is, again, it's just like a reminder, you know? So it's just, I can see them, so it reminds me, oh yeah, I need to read those.

What about declaring Javma bankruptcy and throwing them all away and starting fresh? How would that make you feel? When I propose that, what's your reaction? Yeah, that is definitely, so he wants to throw them away and so I am willing to compromise in any other way, but I don't actually want to throw them away because I do really care about- Yeah, but Liz, respectfully Liz, you're not answering my question.

Okay. When I propose throwing them all away and starting fresh, how does that make you feel? It makes me feel anxious about the idea of losing the opportunity to absorb that information. Mm-hmm. I see. And so you need to have them right there so you know that you'll see them every day. Let me ask you this question without getting too personal. Let's say your feet are tired, so you need a place to sit down for any reason. you know that you'll see them every day. Let me ask you this question without getting too personal. Let's say your feet are tired.

So you need a place to sit down for any reason. You choose the toilet and you're doom scrolling about the state of the world, which is bad. And you have this pile of homework next to you. That's gotta be a miserable morning for you, right? How do you feel when you're just scrolling terrible information and you have unfinished work next to you and you know that even if you ran

into the other bathroom, there's even more work there for you, is that a good feeling? How would you describe it? That's fair, that's stressful. Yeah, okay, I think I've heard everything I need to How would you describe it? That's fair. That's stressful. Yeah Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision I'm gonna go and into my into my private office and peruse some old copies of Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom Liz how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now?

them. Liz, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now? I'm worried. You know, I feel like I don't have a lot of logical room to stand on. So I'm making more of an emotional appeal. Nothing stirs the heart like a pile of medical journals. And my desire to be a better veterinarian. Got it. Simon, how are you feeling? I'm feeling confident. Why is that?

Well, I just don't think she has a leg to stand on. There's no matter what, even if we put it in Ottoman or put them somewhere else, she could never read them faster than they will be replaced. And it will just continue to grow and grow and grow. Liz, for the past 15 years, everyone else in the world has been looking at their phones when they sit there. Can you not put these inside your phone? I mean, that's an interesting question. Yes, I have access to them digitally. That is very true. But then you would have to make the choice

to actually go to the AVMA website and look at the journal online instead of doom scrolling news articles. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. ... ... Judge Sean Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case and to prepare for our upcoming trip to New England.

New England, we're coming for you. And it's a triple homecoming as I returned to Brookline, my actual hometown, as well as two adopted hometowns of Western Massachusetts and my beloved and painful Maine. And we're also for the very first time ever going to Vermont. Yeah, in November, we're bringing justice to the Higher Ground Ballroom in Burlington, Vermont, as well as the State Theater in Portland, Maine, the Shea Theater in Turner's Falls, Massachusetts,

and the Coolidge Corner Theater in Brookline, Mass. Clackson, clackson, clackson. Sorry, Jesse, but Brookline is already sold out. And Turner's Falls with special guest Monty Belmonti is about to sell out too. So go and get your tickets right now at maximumfun.org slash events. And by the way, if you did miss out on Brookline,

may I suggest Portland, Maine is just a short drive away. Why not make a weekend out of it? It's off season. Hotel rooms are gonna be relatively inexpensive. You can check out Eventide Restaurant, go to a Greenhand Bookshop. They've got a great section on Edward Gorey. Go to Flea For All, where you got that jacket that time,

Jesse. Yeah, I got a nice jacket. It's a terrific city, and it's gonna be a great show at the State Theater, and we'll have Joel Mann in-house playing bass with the Night and Day Trio, offering you the finest in coastal Maine jazz. Tickets available right now at MaximumFun.org slash events. We're also coming to the West Coast in January and February,

so you can get your tickets to Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, and Los Angeles, where we will have a very special opening act, Jordan Jesse Goh. It's gonna be a hoot and I dare say a holler. MaximumFun.org slash events for tickets to all of our upcoming shows. And if you have disputes in these cities, please send them in at MaximumFun.org slash JJ HO. If we pick your dispute to hear live on stage,

guess what? You can hang out with us and eat some of our green room crudite. You absolutely can have all the cherry tomatoes because I hate them. Listen, everybody, we've had so much fun on the road with our Judge John Hodgman, road court, and it's a great way to introduce someone who's new to the show, has never heard it before. So please go and get your tickets now at maximumfund.org events and submit your disputes at maximumumFun.org slash JJ HO. And before we leave this segment, I would like to mention that John Hodgman has a brand new

Maximum Fun podcast called E Pluribus Motto. That's right. With our friend Janet Varney. Now, this basically was a, this was, how did this happen? This was like the two of you had a shared a fever dream or something. Janet Varney said, hey, during a recent Max Fun Drive, Janet Varney said, hey, if we hit a certain membership goal, would you like to do a podcast about all of the United States' mottos with me? And I said, I absolutely would, but can we also do state birds and songs and state muffins?

All of the state trivia and other information that you might want to know, you will learn it as we go state by state and Commonwealth by Commonwealth on ePluribusMotto available right now at maximumfund.org. And the only reason that we did it, of course, is that we did meet that membership goal and we're so happy about that,

that we decided to go ahead and make a very long podcast. I mean, it was about 50 states, well, let's say 46 states and four commonwealths and some territories and districts as well. It was a lot of fun. Janet, if you don't know, is not only the host of the great Maximum Fund podcast, the JV Club, and one of the co-founders and co-operators

of San Francisco SketchFest, as well as one of the stars of televisions here at the worst. She's also, this is most relevant to my seven-year-old, the voice of Cora in The Legend of Cora. So if there's 1,000 reasons that you should be paying attention to what Janet has to say, and that's all beside the fact that she is one of the funniest people I know. So I am really excited about E! Pluribus Motto.

It launched with two launch episodes so that you can binge a little bit as we get the show started. So search your podcast app for E! Pluribus Motto. I think you're going to have a great time. Yeah. We recorded them in order of the adoption of the official motto. So it's like Connecticut is first, and then I think we go to Rhode Island.

Well, you'll find out. Everything you need is over there at MaximumFun.org, not least of which is MaximumFun.org slash events for those tickets to the Judge John Hodgman shows in New England. See you there. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

So, Simon, Judge John Hodgman says, sit down because you have no standing. Zero standing. You have zero standing. Right? because you have no standing. Zero standing. You have zero standing, right? I mean, you have established not only through your words, but through your pictures, that you share an equal high tolerance for clutter that extends far beyond this spot next to the toilet.

You try to make a distinction between piles of purpose versus purposeless piles, but when you compare your double vanity to the pile of magazines next to the toilet, to my eyes, same amount of clutter, not really distinct. And indeed, they serve a purpose, a real purpose, to make Liz feel bad every morning. Because she didn't do her homework and she's behind.

And yet, even though you have no standing, I cannot throw this case out of court and rule in Liz's favor automatically. Because Liz, you are confronting a problem that I have great sympathy with. One problem that I have had all my life is letting homework pile up, procrastination, and feeling awful about it.

Feeling awful about it all the time. Procrastination is one of the most insidious bad habits to get into because it ruins your quality of life far more when you're not doing the thing you're putting off than the small hassle of doing the thing that you're putting off, then the small hassle of doing the thing that you're putting off, which is such an improvement of your quality of your emotional life.

There's that. And then there's also addiction to phones, which is a real issue that we all have. And with regard to your defense, Simon, that we like to stay on top of things by looking at our phones. Simon that we like to stay on top of things by looking at our phones. Particularly now, I say don't.

Jesse and I share a good friend and David Reese. David Reese is the co-creator and co-star of the show that we made for Hulu and FX called Dick Town available now on Hulu and potentially an unnamed secret project that seems to be coming into focus more on that later. David has a side project, a podcast called election profit makers with his childhood friend, John Kimball. And if you listen to that and you should, cause it's a lot of fun unless you want to put election news aside for a while, which I don't blame you,

but he's always hectoring John Kimball for remaining an active user of the website we used to call Twitter and There's one of the most explosive moments in podcasting history as far as I as far as I'm concerned Was when David said to John why are you still there? It is only causing you heartache It is only causing you pain. It is not a force for good in the world. It is terrible Why are you still using this application that we used to call Twitter? And John admitted quietly a hard truth. He said, because I think I might make a difference.

You've never heard a childhood friend laughed harder at a childhood friend. And even John had to laugh at himself because of course, scrolling through not just news, but at this point, misinformation, propaganda, clickbait, rage bait, all of the stuff that social media has arranged itself to connect to your brain and make it hard for you to put your phone down. That is not making a difference. Witnessing all of this stuff does not make a difference. And certainly posting your takes on this stuff does not make a difference.

What makes a difference is action in the real world. And if you want to make a difference in the real world, take action in the real world. And if you want to make a difference in the real world, take action in the real world, find an organization that is dedicated to the things that you, and I'm not ordering you to do this. I'm just saying it's the, it's what we call on the judge, John Hodgman, the help in the way you're asked to help principle,

rather than the way that you want to help or feel compelled to scroll through help. You know what I mean? Like find an organization that is aligned with your principles, see what they want you to do in the real world and do that. If that's how you want to engage in this world, we need engagement in this world. But what you're doing on your phone

when not reading your veterinary magazines is not good for anyone, especially you. in ordinary magazines is not good for anyone, especially you. When by contrast, reading about dog poop in a magazine is going to help some dogs. That's very valuable. Think of Sherman. Think of Sherman. And it's critical. I really feel you as an old magazine-er.

You said something that really resonated with me and I think is true, and something that we've lost to a degree, which is that your phones and your computers and your digitized information are great when you're doing a specific search for something that you already know you need to know about. But browsing through a magazine, much like browsing through a bookstore or doing all the kinds of browsing that we used to do of curated collections of articles or information

or whatever, that helps us discover and make connections that we didn't know we, as you put it, you learn about the things you didn't know you needed to know about, or you didn't know that you didn't know about. And something about paging through a physical magazine is conducive to that kind of intellectual discovery that the screen can't replicate.

So to me, the solution here is obvious, not just in terms of how to make Simon a little bit happier about the bathroom arrangement because Simon's going to forget we even spoke about this in five minutes, it turns out, but it will increase happiness for you. And that is, read the magazines. Don't bring your phone into the bathroom. Sit down, for whatever reason you might sit down, and spend that ritual every morning skimming through one magazine and then recycling it. Magazines offer a different kind of torment, right?

Because anyone who has a magazine subscription or ever has, has had them pile up and you feel like, I'm never going to get back to this. And I have a family member who is preoccupied, driven to distraction by the numbers of New Yorkers they haven't finally gotten around to reading. And the only solution for that is to read them. Read them. You will do net good in the world. And you know, you say you need 30 minutes to process one magazine. I suspect you can get that down to 15 or 20.

Like we're just, you know, we were already skipping the bird and, and, uh, and her herpetological sections. Like you give it a good solid skim or read one article, get it done within one, shall we say sitting, put it on the other side of the toilet. Simon grabs it, throws it away. Then you're going to be done. We think they've got 45 in there, right?

So in 45 days, maybe you take a weekend off a couple of weekends off, right? So like in two months, you will have processed 45 of them. And you will be a smarter, even better than you are veterinarian. You know, you don't need to become a better veterinarian. You're great at it, but you'll be even better and you'll feel good. And it'll also, I think be good.

I mean, it'll be good for you, not to be gross about it, but it'll be good for your waste processing. You know what I mean? Like your gut, your gut is very attuned to your emotions. It's gonna, you're gonna have a better time on the toilet if you do your homework. Man, let that be what I'm remembered by. I mean,

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, every day, 15, 20 minutes, process one magazine, get rid of it. You will, as I say, in two months, you'll get rid of all the 45 that you got there. You will have brought in eight and you're gonna be ahead of the game and you're gonna feel so good

and you will be making a difference. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Liz, how do you feel? I feel really good. Actually that is, I think that's going to give me the impetus to do what I wanted to do in the first place, which is to read the journals. And maybe it'll get me through, let's just say the next month is going to be stressful for everybody. And yeah, no, I think that's great

advice. And I think, you know, Simon's beef was more on principle. So the principle that I would never read them, so what was the point? And I think this is good because then I feel like he'll be satisfied. Simon, are you satisfied? Yes, and just to clarify, it wasn't principle. It was evidence, the fact that you never read them. Yeah, so I'm feeling good.

Simon, Liz, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We've got Swift Justice coming up right around the corner. But first, our thanks to Redditor Boltonerdist, who named this week's episode.

You can join us at maximumfund.reddit.com, not only to submit some names for our next episode, but also to chat about this one. It's a very pleasant, positive community there at maximumfund.reddit.com. Hey, I'm a member of that community, and I enjoy checking in and chopping it up with people about the cases in a fun and productive way.

It's fun. Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman, as well as on the page for this episode at MaximumFun.org. You can find us on TikTok and YouTube where you can watch full episodes of Judge John Hodgman just by looking for Judge John Hodgman pod at Judge John Hodgman pod. So make sure to smash those like and subscribe buttons

and tell a friend. If you got a friend who enjoys YouTube and isn't a podcast person, tell them they can watch Judge John Hodgman right there on the YTs. And also watch Jesse Thorne and I eat some paw paws and Jesse pet some coppibars, the very popular videos that we put up recently

That's true. Those pawpaws were pretty good. Yeah, I like the spoiler alert, but I like pawpaws You know, I give pawpaws five stars and speaking of five stars. I want to say thank you to SAS 235 over there on the Apple podcast application for the very kind review SAS 235 cast application for the very kind review. SAS 235 said, I don't miss a show. It's one of my favorites, smart, fun, funny, and just the right level of nerddom. My wife, who's a whole human being in her own right, even likes it. Five stars they gave us.

Josh Hodgman, you know what just the, you know, just the right level of nerddom is? No. What? You're a nerd and I'm artsy. That's right. I am a nerd, Jesse's artsy, and thank you SAS 235 for that five star review. Hey, if you're listening to us over there on Apple Podcast,

why don't you go and leave us a review right now? Dare I ask for five stars? Well, if that's the way you feel, yes, I do ask it. Because not only do I love reading your feedback, but it really helps new listeners find the show. And guess what? You can now rate and review the show on Pocket Casts as well. And or leave a comment on Spotify

or as mentioned our YouTube page, youtube.com slash at Judge John Hodgman Podd. If you go over there, you can watch me eat a Maine style fluorescent red hot dog, fresh and cold, out of the bag. Five-star content. Yeah, uncooked. Just straight out of that package. Straight out of the pack.

And not just take a bite. You took a bite, thought about it, then wolfed down the rest of it. It's called commitment. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorn and John Hodgman. This episode was engineered by Ernest Ibarra at Chatterbox Studio in San Antonio, Texas. Our social media manager is Natty Lopez.

The podcast is edited by AJ McKeon. Our video editor is Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now, Swift Justice, are you ready for this, John? I am. This one comes from our members-only mailbag, the Membo Mailbag. If you're a member of Maximum Fund, you can listen to our monthly members only podcast,

the Membo Mailbag, by subscribing in your bonus content feed. OK, here we go. Erica from Mount Kisco, New York, thank you for being a member, Erica, writes, my 12-year-, Ewan, believes that if you go into a food store, you have to buy something. But I browse in stores all the time without buying. Who's right?

Look, you can browse in stores all the time without buying. Bookstores, clothing stores, knickknack stores, gift shops. But I'm going to say something. If you're going into a food shop, some kind, that stuff's perishable. Get a water or something. Your son is more ethical than you are, Erica. Ewan's right. Just get a water.

Stay hydrated. Help the business. And I would say even in a bookshop, you can probably find something that you like there. But I mean, just get a little something to support the business that is putting a roof over your head for a minute. But whatever the case, Erica,

I echo my friend and co-host Jesse Thorne, thank you for being a Maximum Fund member. If you're a member, you can send us a letter about anything, we'll read it on the Membo mailbag. If you're not a member, you can become one right now by going to maximumfund.org slash join. Otherwise your point of contact for me, Judge John Hodgman, is always maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

And while you have that page open, won't you send us a dispute? Our live show is coming soon to Vermont, Maine and Massachusetts. And we're looking for your New England style beefs. Send them right in, maximumfund.org slash JJHO. And make sure to let us know your, with inhaling distance of one of those live shows,

because we do need your cases to make those live shows sing. And you know what? No matter what, maximumfund.org slash JJHO, no matter where you are or how big your beef is, send it to us. That's maximumfun.org slash JJHO. And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network.

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