Judge John Hodgman - Justice Delayed

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

If you sent us a case about Pokémon Go in 2016, stay in line! You know the saying, "Justice delayed is justice denied." We attempt to clear the docket of some of our oldest, unanswered disputes. Should you go to a second restaurant for a separate dessert? Is it okay to want to be buried in a Fiat? Is teaching your children a secret family language fun or annoying? And, of course: should your girlfriend be ordered to come out and play Pokémon Go? If you spot yourself in these queries, PLEASE let us know how they played out, and come with us back…to the future! Have a dispute that you can’t settle? No dispute is too small for the honorable Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn! Submit your cases directly to the court at: maximumfun.org/jjho Follow Judge John Hodgman on: YouTube: @judgejohnhodgmanpod Instagram: @judgejohnhodgman TikTok: @judgejohnhodgmanpod Bluesky: @judgejohnhodgman Reddit: r/maximumfun Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething.   Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes, discounts on our merch, and more by joining us at: maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're clearing the docket this week, and I'm joined by Judge John Hodgman. Hello, John. Hello, bailiff, Jesse Thorne. Guess what? This is a special docket.

I haven't done one of these in a long time. We're going way, way, way back into the mailbag to a bunch of cases, Jesse, that have gone back maybe a decade that we never heard. Wow. This is just as delayed, justice denied. children have been born, grown up, gone to work, and retired since many of these cases were first brought to our attention. That's true. That's a true story.

True story. There are definitely some 10-year-old attorneys out there. Before we get into our first case, which I have here, I'm just going to do something for our YouTube audience real quick. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I can't wait to see what you're going to do. Okay, ready for the flashback. Wayne's World Flashback. You could hear it on the audio.

You couldn't see it unless you're over there at Judge John Hodgman Pod on YouTube. And let me invite you one more time, everybody within the sound of my voice. Please be within the sound of my eyes, too. Go over to YouTube and subscribe to the channel. Doesn't cost nothing. No, it's free to you. Just hit subscribe. Hit the subscribe button.

And profoundly beneficial to not only me and Jesse, but the whole endeavor. because it helps people find the show. More subscribers, the more people get the show in their feeds. More people discover the show. More people become Max Fund members, the more we're able to bring you these rollicking dockets and all the justice that I dare say you've become fond of. All right, end of that. I've delayed this long enough, Jesse.

There are people out there who are desperate for justice over many years. I just had a little memory of a little memory of the sun. of one of our friends in Maine, who when he was little, was driving to the pizza place and just yelled from the back of seat, I'm dying of starvation. He was fine. Okay. He was fine. But you know what?

People get cranky when they're hungry and especially when they're hungry for justice. So let's get into it. Here's a case from 2015 from Sean. My wife, Karen and I have a dispute about. Dining out. When we go out for dinner, Karen wants to go to a second restaurant for dessert. To clarify, I don't mean swinging by an ice cream parlor on the drive home. I mean driving to another restaurant waiting for a table, then ordering dessert. This has been going on for 10 years, where now parents and our nights out have become rare. Please order Karen to stop. Well, immediately, the good news is

It's 2026. They're not parents anymore. Parents are grown. The children are grown. They're out of the house. They've had careers. They're now retired. Yeah. I wonder what Sean and Karen's child is doing in retirement. Volunteering? Probably some volunteering. I like to stay active. Do some deep sea fishing trips. I only get to write that novel. Going to the keys, hanging out at the Margaritaville. Step on a pop top. Don't do that. Where's some flip-flops. You know what I mean? Exactly. You know, you know that this is the plot of an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Where Larry David literally steps on a pop top? No, no, where Cheryl wants to go to a second restaurant for dessert, and Larry doesn't. And so for that reason, I find in favor of Larry David.

It's 2026 with the benefit of hindsight. I always choose Larry David. Well, I mean, this brings another layer to the justice that we must dispense. because there might be a copyright infringement lawsuit that Sean and Karen have over Larry David here. I'll also say this, John, if they do step on a pop top, it's going to be a problem for Cheryl because she probably didn't get her tetanus shot. She probably didn't get her tetanus shot. I mean, no one bought their life story rights. And this has been going on for years.

Not only is this case 11 years old, it was already a 10-year-old dispute when they rode in. Wow. Some simple math. I don't love subtraction, but I can do addition pretty good. That's 21 years old. Their child probably is an adult now. Yeah. And let me tell you something.

One thing, when they talk about going for saying dessert, Jesse, they don't mean swinging by the ice cream parlor. Wink. People who on the YouTube saw me winking. Swinging by the ice cube parlor. No, ice cream parlor. Wink. You know what I mean.

They're talking about going actually to a restaurant. They're not talking about going to a hugging and kissing club in Upper West Side Manhattan in the 70s. They're talking about going to an actual restaurant and ordering a second dessert. Now, I don't love dessert, but I'll say this. I like some desserts. I like cheesecake. It is a cake. I like a savory dessert.

I like a baked Alaska. You're a baked Alaska, Jesse? I haven't, but I think fondly of baked Alaska often. because I heard a story about Nikita Khrushchev visiting Nixon in the White House, and they served baked Alaska, and Khrushchev said, truly America is a land of wonders. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if it was Khrushchev.

It's a memory from 25 years ago for me of a thing that happened 50 years ago, but that's my memory. Baked Alaska is a dessert with a sponge cake, and then it's got ice cream, and then it's got moratine. on top of it and that meringue is torched. And I like meringue. Marang is, is pretty is, is a good flavor for me in the sweets department. And I remember enjoying that a lot on one of the early Jonathan Colton cruises back when I went on that boat. Instead, Jesse and I are going on us on a cool sailing boat on our, on our own,

well, not on our own with people who want to come and be with us. Yeah. Not our friend Jonathan Colton, though. Yeah, that's right, Jonathan Colton. You're in. the crosshairs. Quit being the nicest guy ever. Yeah, no, he's invited if he wants. Yeah, he can come. He can sail with Grace Bailey with us in June if he wants. I'm going to say Karen should stop if they are not, you know, divorced at this point.

And I hope that you're not, Sean and Karen. That's got to be a no, right? Jesse, what do you think? I think it's a no. And in fact, I would say I am much more in favor of, of stopping at an ice cream parlor. Because it's a nice activity. You could take your ice cream, go for a stroll on the riverfront,

or whatever. Yes. Rather than just sitting around waiting for a table at a restaurant, then disappointing the server by only ordering desserts. Well, you put your, you put your finger right, you put the cherry right on top of the cake or whatever, the Sunday right there, Jesse. because you go to a,

you go swing by an ice cream parlor wink, you're going there for exactly what they are there to do for you. Like, you're not going into the ice cream parlor and be like, could I have a Salisbury steak, please? Then they're confused. You're like, no, I would like some ice cream.

Like, we know exactly what you want. That's terrific. We have the ice cream here. We're set up to serve it in a quick serve environment that will allow you to take it and walk along the river with your beloved, for example.

and enjoy an evening. That would be the equivalent of going, you know, that's what going to a restaurant and ordering dessert is like. It's like going to, like going to an ice cream parlor and ordering a Salisbury steak.

It's just, it's not what they're set up to do. It's confusing. And the server's going to be like, oh boy, oh boy. Because, you know, that's not, they don't make their money on the desserts, you know.

They make their money on the, on the wine and on the, on the cocktails, and on the carrot tartar. You know, I went to a very fancy restaurant here in New York City. Maybe I mentioned this to you. I went to 11 Madison Park. Oh, this is like a legendary restaurant.

Very, very, like this chef received many Michelin stars and to the point where it got boring for him. And he said, okay, it's too easy now. I'm going to go ahead and make my whole restaurant, not just vegetarian, vegan, fine dining. got another Michelin Star. Now they're serving everything they ever serves. It's like an anniversary menu there. But, you know, it is one of these Bayer-type restaurants where it's like very curated.

And they do a carrot tartar where they literally slap a meat grinder on your table and grind up carrots at your table. And then you mix in some kinds of delicious... This sap mustard and quail eggs and stuff. You say carrot. You say... carrot tartar.

I think you're describing coleslaw. There is. It is a pretty fancy coleslaw. And I'll say this to Eleven Masson Park. I loved that dish.

Just grind the carrots in the kitchen. I know you're just going to be fresh. Just go ahead and grind the carrots in the kitchen because I mean, I loved, I love the theatrics of it. Do you know what I mean?

But you're sitting something on fire. That's a show. Me having to watch the poor server struggle with this meat grinder and trying to get the or you know what? Get a better carrot grinder because you're just reusing vintage meat grindies which look terrific but they're not built for grinding meat carrots.

They're built for grinding meats and it was a little awkward. But overall the experience was amazing. It's astonishing, honestly. But yeah, I wouldn't bop in there and just be like, yeah, can I get a hot fudge Sunday now? No, come on. Be respectful, Karen. Here's the thing. I bet that they stopped doing this years ago.

Do you know why? Why? They're old now. They don't want to stay out that late. Go to a second location. What? Your ruling is never go with a spouse to a second location. Yeah, I just don't have the energy for a second stop anymore.

Used to be, we'd be going out two, three, four different places a night. Now it's like, you know, the name of Jeff Tweedy's memoir. Let's go so we can get back. That's how I feel. Let's go so we can get home. Okay. Here's something from Lou. in 2016. That's a decade ago. I want to be buried in my Fiat 500. My relatives think this is ridiculous.

What do you think? Well, I have driven, have you ever driven a Fiat 500, Jesse? I have never driven a Fiat 500. This is like a very compact Italian motor vehicle car. It's a very little teeny tiny car. Very cute. I'm not sure. Are you? would even fit into such a thing. I'm not sure you could fold your beautifully proportioned but ginormous body into a Fiat 500 and be comfortable. Maybe, I don't know.

It's not made for my elegant limbs. It's not made for your elegant limbs. Exactly so. It's sort of like a mini-cooper, but more mini than a mini-cooper, I think. And I rented one once. When we moved a bunch of stuff to May,

now more than a decade ago in 2014. Take that, Lewis. I may have mentioned this before, but we rented a panel van, like a van, a moving van, a windowless white moving van. I mean, there was a windshield and driver's windows, but the back of it was just,

it wasn't one of those vans that you drive by telepathy. Yeah, feel your way around. And not one of those daredevil vans where you just sniff your way around. Yeah. So I love. love this white windowless van. The best part about it was we got some armchairs and put them in the back. You'll see when you come to Maine in June, Jesse. You'll see these armchairs. You've probably

sat in them before. For a while, we just towed them around. There were these vintage, vintage. There were just some used mothy armchairs. We've since had them re-apolstered, but for a while they sat in the back in the van and they were fun for people to ride around in. And I would pick up our kids who were little at the time in the van from their day camp. And there's nothing better than showing up early for pickup at a day camp, you know, idling, mysterious, menacing-looking, windowless white van. That was a lot of fun. And then I would just sort of open the back of the van and let them climb in.

And I would not let any of the counselors ever see me. That was fun. I would be like, oh, can you help me get this armchair into this van? It was that kind of vibe, you know? James Gum from Silence of the Lambs type of vibe. And after a while, we didn't need the van anymore, but we still needed a second vehicle. So I returned the van to the rental car company,

and I said, you know what, I'm tired of driving around this huge van. Give me the smallest thing you got, and they gave me this Fiat 500. And believe me, the difference between driving around a big Econnellan van, where you're up high and surrounded by metal, and a Fiat 500, where you are essentially,

on a road toboggan surrounded by thin plastic. Honestly, Lewis, if you don't plan for this to be your coffin, it will end up being your coffin anyway. This is a scary little car. What's the smallest car you would drive, Jesse? Wow, what an interesting question. I mean, it really would be a function of whether I could fit into it. But like, I have always wanted to have a Dotson Roadster. I've always thought a Dotson Roadster would be a great car to have. And I would imagine that I would have to sit like I was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in a, you know, in a Toyota Corolla. My knees up and my head sideways kind of thing. Oh, Jesse, look at this. By now the YouTube folks are looking at a clip that we clearly have put up, I'm going to presume that we have put up a clip

of this beautiful car on the YouTube and anyone else can go search the web. but it is a classic 1960s Japanese sports car. Yeah, Jesse, you would look good in this. I know. And it's a convertible, too. So that's good for you because you're tall. It's part of this obsession that I sometimes develop, which is what is the coolest car I could buy for $9,000 to $12,000?

Yeah, why not? Anyway, Lewis, right, your family doesn't want you to be buried in a Fiat 500. I think that it's not. of their business. If you have survived this long driving the car, then you are certainly an adult. And last wishes are your last wishes, not anybody else's. Now, I would not saddle them with the expense of finding a place that will accommodate the burial of a Fiat 500 or the crane mechanism that would be required to lower it in. I think it would be a complicated, if not quite expensive.

Put it in neutral, give it a push. Flag a few guys down at the gas station. Yeah. Put it in neutral. Maybe get a CHP car out there. Give it a bump. Yeah. Maybe you could, yeah, maybe you could find a place where in the ocean,

where if you removed, I'm just spitballing here. I'm sure of a million problems with this idea. So just spare me the emails. But like, you know, if you get, if you get rid of the most toxic materials in it and then dump it and your body in the ocean, it would become a natural reef and you would become fish food. Yeah. Plus divers would get to do that thing where they swim down and they look in the chair. But oh, there's a skeleton. Yeah.

Okay. Let's take a break to hear from this week's partners. We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am bail of Jesse Thorne. We're clearing the docket. I've got another case here from Julia. This one is from 2017.

In 2017, Julia might have still been our producer. Jennifer, were you already working on Judge John Hodgman in 2017? Yeah, I started in 2016. Okay. I take it back. Oh. By 2017, we had discarded Julia Smith. That's not true.

It's not true. We love Julia. But we gave her a Fiat 500 as a parting gift. We did. And I believe that was your signing bonus on the way out. Everyone got a Fiat 500 and a velvet bag. Okay. Julia says, my husband and I agreed we would learn one of the other's hobbies.

Specifically, I would learn curling and he would learn the mandolin. I've now gone curling with him several times and even participated in a tournament. But he hasn't touched the mandolin. in a year. Now he wants to take up a new sport. It's a weird bowling thing from the Netherlands, like bocce ball mixed with curling. But if he has time for a new sport,

shouldn't he be learning mandolin? And this is mandolin, the musical instrument, not mandolin, the finger slicing device that you find in some kitchens. And this is sport, the recreational,

activity, not sport, the sport. Oh, you don't count curling as a sport? It's on the edge. Let's put it. I'm going to put it on the edge. Congratulations to all the medalists out there. We wish you all the best. Thank you for your brooming. I'll tell you what's not on the edge. You said the curling is on the edge of being a sport. What's not on the edge? Curling shoes. They're not skates. They're just flat shoes. But one of them has a rough soul and the other one has a slick soul. so you can push yourself along on the ice you slide around. I really want to get a pair of those. Anyway, curling.

First of all, I have to say right up front, this is also justice denied. Gotta apologize to listener Kurt, who in 2023, I mentioned the Belfast Main Curling Club. Kurt wrote me and said, I'm a member of the Belfast Main Curling Club. Please come by. Would love to see you try out curling.

And here it is, as of this recording, 2026, I have still not done it. We drive by it every time we drive to Maine, and I just drove by it on Saturday as we came back from Maine. And I felt really bad. There were a lot of cars in the parking lot. Let's be honest, Subaru's. There was a lot of curling going on,

and I did not go in because I didn't. It's just inopportunely located, Kurt, is the thing. It's on the way, right? So going to curling would be like going on the way home, and I don't like doing that when I'm in Maine. I don't like going back. I like to go forwards. If you want to move the curling club north, say, to Winterport or Gouldsboro or a Scudic Peninsula,

I'd go there. That's going away from New York City. See what I mean? Yeah. You should move the curling club for me. Also, congratulations to Autumn and Ryan at the Ellsworth Candlepin Bowling Alley. They're getting a big profile on CBS Sunday morning coming up. Really excited to that.

That's great. Happy to hear that. That's super cool. All right. Anyway, I apologize. I went on a curling bender. Let's get back to Julia. Julia learned curling and has gone curling with him several times. Sounds as though husband, who looks like he's unnamed, sounds as though husband messed with the mandolin a little bit, but hasn't messed around with it since and hasn't learned it since.

And that's just a breach of contract. That's simple breach of contract. You've got to learn the mandolin. If he hasn't learned it by now, you've got to go back to your 2017 self and make it up to Julia. Now, this, I'm curious, though, as a fan of the on-the-edge,

maybe sports, of rolling things or sliding things, be it curling or bowling, what is the Netherlandic cross between curling and bocce ball? that they could be talking about. Well, there are a couple of options. One is Petank, which is played Boul or Petank.

That's a lawn game that's played all over Europe, including in the Netherlands. And there's indoor curling in the Netherlands where you are sliding the, I don't know if they call it the rock. I don't know if it is a rock, but you're sliding instead of on ice what looks like a slick artificial turf.

But the thing I think they must be talking about, out here is Crubleen, Krublein, where you are essentially playing botchy but with wheels of cheese. Not actual wheels of cheese, but wooden, thick wooden discs that are sort of, that you roll on their side and you curve them around. And it's also, it's known as Krubullen, but also known as roly-bole. Roly-Bully, it's called. That's for real. Do you know what the Dutch call baseball? No, I don't. Honk ball. Honk ball.

Mm-hmm. There's a professional, there's a professional baseball league in the Netherlands. It's called, uh, it's called honk ball hoofed glossy. I'm in. Have you ever been to the Netherlands, Jesse? I haven't been to the Netherlands. I've been to other parts of Northern Europe, but only the parts that are north of there. I had such a great time in Denmark.

Denmark ruled and everybody that loves Denmark seems to love the Netherlands. So I'd like to go. Yeah. I mean, I think that I am of I am of the kind of person who thinks of the Netherlands as being somehow in Scandinavia. But obviously they're not. They're just sort of like right across from London, just in a chunk of the North Sea coast line between Germany and Belgium. the low the low the low the low lands uh i would love to go there and i would love to play some roly bolly with you and some honk ball jessie maybe one of these days we'll get to go to a show

maybe one of our judge john hodgeman bailiff jessie thorne nightcourt shows get a little wild get a little wild in amsterdam i really want julia's husband to learn roly bolly obviously uh and by now maybe he has by now maybe they are no longer together because he never learned to play the mandolin and instead went cuckoo for roly-bole-bole and he breached that contract. But if you are still married, you need to cure the breach of contract. You need to go back and learn a song on mandolin and perform it on video and send it to us. And then I will sign off on your roly-bole lifestyle. Understand Julia's husband, who seems to be unnamed?

go go go go learn mandolin go go to go to go to chris teely's mandolin camp some summer or just learn it off the internet learn the mandolin make music making music's terrific uh it's hard it's a hard instrument i understand mandolin but you chose it so learn it yeah it's a little asymmetric this matchup between curling and mandolin like curling is something where part of the appeal is that anybody can show up and do it while drinking beer. That's my understanding. Mandolin is super hard. I feel like the context is not here,

and this was nigh on a decade ago. It's possible Julia's husband already plays other guitar type instruments, like he's already a master of the banjo and the guitar or something. But I know that if it was a matchup between me learning the ukulele as an adult man, which I kind of did. And my wife, you're doing a great job with the ukulele.

Thank you. My wife going curling with me, one is a lot harder than the other. One asks much more challenge in terms of, but if he chose it, it's, that's his problem. Like if he took it up, they might be a music family. Look, in my wife's family, they're all just picking up each other's mandolins. In my family, everyone just hangs around and talks about Gramsci. I'll say this. It is asymmetrical. You're not wrong. But on the other hand, there are definitely people who believe that curling is as simple as sliding a rock on some ice.

And those people are Jesse. I didn't say that. But even if you discount, even if you acknowledge that curling is a sport, of skill and discipline. You can still have fun doing it, but you still do have to get dressed up and go to a place. That is a barrier to entry that the mandolin does not have. You have a mandolin. You pick it up, you noodle around on it. Eventually, you'll learn a song.

And then Julia's husband, you're going to film yourself singing the song. I don't care what it is. You want to get on Jesse's nerves. It can be a Tom Wait's song. But I would like watch some videos of Chris Tilly or Sierra. Hull playing the mandolin, and you'll be so excited and inspired. I know you'll want to do it. Go do it. It's never too late to pick up a musical instrument and learn to make some music. It's one of the greatest things you can do. Here's something from Beau in October 2017.

I would like to sue my friends Isaac and Brooke. They have invented a bizarre family language. Noodles are nudes. Spaghetti is Spaghetti. Peanut butter is peanut butts and so on. So that's just the beginning of this language. That much, sure. Those are just the abbreviations, the abbreviations, the abbrevives. But some items get whole new words. A head is a nogalog. Then other phrases are jumbled. Little kids are hittal lids. I'm barely scratching the surface. The other day, their toddler fell and hurt his knee. With tears streaming down his face, he said, bonc canesel. Bonk a

Kneel. Please stop Isaac and Brooke from inflicting further permanent lexicographical damage on their children. All right, Bo. 2017. These kids are beyond help at this point.

As we know, they've already trying to think of what their way of saying, grown up, become employed, and retired. They bonged a job out, then took nappy naps. I don't know. Something.

I'm not. Kipped out. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how they would say it. I'm not a member of this family and neither are you, Bo. Neither are you. I mean,

and clearly you want to, you know, you think you're pretty smart because you said, lexicographical damage. These kids aren't trying to write a dictionary. That's what lexicography is. Maybe you mean linguistic damage. And you're not wrong,

I suppose, to worry about this. Because, you know, like, There are family nicknames for things, but if they're developing a whole new family-only dialect, I could see how that could be a little bit isolating for little kids as they start to join social groups at school. I don't know. It's pretty cute, though.

Is it too cute? What do you think, Jesse? Is it too cute? You know, honestly, I support it. Yeah? I like this nonsense. If it was just nude spigets, peanut butts, I would just think, like. Oh, this is like some, oh, big jungis on the internet type thing.

You know what I mean? Like, this is just sort of that kind of cutesy millennial nonsense. And I say that as a millennial myself. However, once I heard about bonconezol, Nogel, Nogelagalog. Nogelagelag is my favorite one. When they're going to whole new nonsense words, it comes back around for me and I support it. Yeah, I don't have a whole, I don't have a problem with the family speaking its own kind of like, let me say, Cryptoglossia, the twin language. When twins, identical twins sometimes start making up little languages that only each other understand.

That's pretty awesome, honestly. That's a fun story to tell. You think this is maybe a Casper Hauser situation where they all live in a basement together and aren't allowed to leave? I hope not. We're not talking about Casper Hauser, the comedy troupe now. We're talking about Casper Hauser, the historical quote-uner. quote, feral child who was discovered without language in the middle ages. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, there's one, there's one problem between the nudes and the spigets and the peanut butts. What if the kids, you know, they go to an Italian restaurant, the waiter is like, what would you like young, young child? And the kid says, send nudes. That would be a problem. My mom makes up words and names and names for everyone. To the point where when my wife, who grew up in a very normal family, would come visit me when we were teenagers.

Well, normal plus mandolins. Yeah, normal plus mandolins, for sure. But they're like, oh, what do you want to do today? Go for a nice hike? Okay. Yeah. You don't want to talk about Gramshy at all? You don't want to talk about Bakhteen?

I don't know what Graham. What is Gramsci? Antonio Gramsci. He was a Marxist philosopher. He was a Marxist philosopher. Okay, thank you. Perhaps best known for creating the idea of the organic intellectual. Anyway.

Oh, Antonio Gramsci. Yeah. Okay, so anyway, my mom... This guy had great... Can we just show a picture of him on the YouTube from the Wikipedia? This guy had great air. Incredible. Ooh.

He's a Sardinian, too. All right, go on. You were saying. So anyway, my mom reads, you know, Bacteen or Walter Benjamin or whatever for fun. But then also she makes up words all the time. And my wife would come over. We were just boyfriend and girlfriend.

Then we were 17 years old. And we would leave the room. We'd be talking to my mom, leave the room. And Teresa would say to me, can you tell me what she said? I'd be like, yeah, I can summarize it. But I also would, she would, she uses names for people as though other people know what that means. So I would meet friends of hers.

and they would say, oh, you must be boonsalais, boonsela, or ah, it's the famous bundles buntings because they had, my mom had only referred to me that, well, like, it's not like she called me Jessicles or something like that. Right. She only would call me these ridiculous, like, she calls her sister Gail, famous on the Judge John Hodgman podcast for her husky rescuing activities. Husky rescuing, yeah, exactly. She calls her

Buff, which is short for Buffalo, of course. Now, are they from Buffalo? Does she have some association with Buffalo? No, it has something to do with maybe Captain Kangaroo. I'm not sure. Interesting. Oh.

Yeah, that's Buffalo Gale. And then there's also her sister Buffalo Deb, but Deb is not called Buffalo or Buff. Only Gail is called Buffalo or Buff. Sometimes Deb is called Buffalo Deb. So sometimes she's Buffalo. Debb, but only Gail is Buff, period. Exactly.

Buffalo Debb, of course, famous for helping boomers with their lifestyle transitions in real estate in Northern Virginia. Jonathan Colton, remember how we were mentioning him, that nice guy that we know? Sure. His grandparents were called Tuffy and BJ. B.J. was his granddad. Tuffy was his grandmom. My mom will be texting me with nicknames of people I never met before.

I don't live in the Bay Area. I haven't living in the Bay Area in 20 years. Her friend Eric, this guy's just called Best. Because his name used to be Best E. And it just became Best. Well, I was talking to Bestie the other day. Bestie Friendy? No, just Best E because he was the best Eric around.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, my mom's cool. That's great. Yeah, your mom is really cool. You know, look, for the cool moms and dads and parents of all stripes out there, you know, part of your job is definitely, to the best of your ability, give your kids skills and wisdom so that they can port themselves in the outside world, outside of your family, as best they can. And they understand the ways and means of the outside world, you know. And so if you want to teach them a fun family language full of neologisms and made up words, great.

but you also have to make sure that they are aware of, you know, of code switching, basically, of like, this is our family language. You may not know what they, your doctor may not know what you mean when you show up in the, in the ER and tell Noah Wiley that you bonged a nasal. You might need to explain that you hurt your knee. Thank you for coming into my office. Please have a seat. We've found a tumor in your nogalog.

Yeah, but we've got to have another word for tumor. little buddy let's take a break we'll be back in just a second on the judge john hodgeman podcast judge john hodgeman we're taking a break from clearing the docket there are still a few berths left for our trip on the grace bailey the historic sailing ship yeah if you don't know what jesse said he did not say there are a few birds left he said berthes birth is a nautical term for a bed in a beautiful, beautifully restored and updated cabin aboard the equally beautifully restored Schooner Grace Bailey, an historic 100-year-old wooden, two-masted sailing windjammer out of Rockland,

Maine. And boy, oh, boy, are we excited to share some time at sea with you? A small group of people will join us as we dispense maritime law at night. We hang out during the day. Maybe I'll give a little reading from vacation land. Basically, we'll just sit down and have some grog together. Bit. Dotley slash maritime justice. And we're looking forward to seeing you there. Jesse, what's going on with you in the world of Bullseye or put this on? Well, I have actually, you know, I was in Mexico City a few weeks ago.

And I did a lot of shopping, brought a lot of awesome stuff back for the Put This On shop, which is online at Put This Onshop.com. I bought a bunch. Look, if you need Mexican Muscle Man magazines, yeah, I got those. I brought back so many awesome Mexican movie posters and lobby cards. I brought back a bunch of bootleg superheroes, which in Mexico, they're called bootleg superheroes. I brought back a ton of. of gorgeous Mexican silver jewelry for gentlemen and ladies. I just, I went wild in Mexico City,

brought it all back. Brennan's got it up in the shop at put this on shop.com. Brenna, my shopmaster. And I hope that you will go to put this on shop.com and take a look at some of the wonderful things we have on offer. As we say in this episode, developing a sense of taste and aesthetic taste, whether you're decorating yourself or the world around you, is a true pleasure and a great place to start. is going to put this on shop.com. I always love finding stuff there for me and often stuff for people. And, you know, when you're giving gifts,

you need a little inspiration, and I always find it at put this on shop.com. John, can I also say right around the corner, the Max Fun Drive, we're looking forward to everybody joining Max Fun. That's all I'm just going to say it. We're going to do all kinds of fun stuff. We're looking forward to you joining Max Fun.

It's a fun drive, which is to say it's fun. and also is a wonderful way to keep the podcast going, maximum fund.org slash join. Stay tuned. Let's get back to the docket. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I got a case here from David. This is also a decade old, May of 2016.

My wife and I recently found a website where one can print items with a custom image. I really want to make a shower curtain with a specific stock photo. In this photo, the model is an old man shrugging. The photo is used in. in a lot of memes. He sent us a picture of the photo. We're showing it on YouTube now.

You can also find it where our evidence is. Jennifer Marmer had it locked and loaded. She was ready to show this mocked-up shower curtain. And there's an old man who kind of looks like George Carlin in his later years wearing a red long-sleeve t-shirt and shrugging. He's like, what am I going to do? What does the wife think of it? My wife thinks it's creepy.

I think she just doesn't understand my humor. I would pay for the rights to use the stock photo, or the curtain could be free advertising for shutter stock. I haven't had much to say in the art we have displayed in our apartment. Please rule in my favor. Wonder why he, it's weird. I kind of wonder, I guess he doesn't say, Jennifer, he doesn't say here why he doesn't have much say in the art in their apartment, does it?

Does it say that? No, I think it was self-explanatory. Oh. Because he just wants to hang memes all over the apartment. He just wants to make their home and their marriage a joke. Or just more dank. That's true. That's true.

Maybe their home isn't dank enough. Yeah. Yeah. I, my inclination here. Well, I'm going to hold on my inclination. I just want to give you a little bit of bathroom trivia. Shower trivia. Right.

Jesse, we did this wonderful show in San Francisco, San Francisco Sketchfest. And look, I don't want to blow up anybody's spot, but it's over now. I am no longer in residence at room 1205 of the Kabuki Hotel in Japan, town, San Francisco. There are certain rooms in the Kabuki Hotel, which is a hotel that I love. love, where the shower is like more than a shower, it's a room. Yeah, where there's like, where it's almost like a, where it's almost like a European bathroom where the entire bathroom is the shower. Yeah.

And there's like this very deep bench that's sort of mysterious. Not deep bench, like they've got a lot of good players. I mean, like, there seems, there's like a sports. What are they going to do with Al Horford? They already have two bigs. There's a sitting area in the shower room that is tiled, it's all tiled over, and it's like, what is this doing here? Well, I happened to know the very first year I went to Sketchfest, I stayed in one of these

rooms before they remodeled. Underneath the tiles in those shower rooms are Japanese soaking tubs that they got tired of cleaning. Wow. So they tiled them over, made them into a shower bench. Put that in your Atlas Obscura. Don't I get a page in that now? That's a fun thing.

Hidden Japanese soaking tubs. You go to the hotel Kabuki and you've got a pickaxe. Guess what? You got yourself a Japanese soaking tub. You wash first, then you get in the... In Japan, you wash first, then you get in the tub. All right. So what about this George Carlin shower curtain?

It looks dumb, right? Jesse. We can say that, right? It's awful. Yeah. It's terrible. And it's awful because it has the shutterstock water mark all over it, which makes every image look cheap and stolen.

The resolution is bad. It is a weird, nonsensical image, and I don't feel like getting into a shower with that old man. But also, I think that joke decoration, I'm going to be pretty reductive here, but it's like joke decorating of a shared home sometimes feels to me a little bit like something guys do because they're a little intimidated by the big step they've taken in their life in order to make a commitment to a partner and to move in with them and maybe get married. You know what I mean?

It can also be kind of a rejection of the aesthetic. Like a guy who is, and this could apply to, people of any gender, but it's culturally, typically guys. A guy who is like, I don't know how to make it look nice. I'll make it a joke and then I have the power. Yeah. Yes. Exactly.

Yeah. Or if your partner's taste seems better than yours or you don't understand how to make something look nice, it's how you retain a little bit of power. I think that's really insightful, Jesse. this really does scream R-slash-male living space that subreddit of dudes posting their profoundly horribly decorated first apartments.

Sometimes they look nice. There's just like a gray sofa facing a PlayStation. Sometimes they look nice. Maybe there's a samurai. Sometimes they look nice. Anyway. Sometimes it's all house plants. Sometimes it's just wall-to-wall house plants.

I think that it's important for everyone. Not important, but it's like learning the mandolin. Like learning how to make music maybe feels a little intimidating. I'm not going to be able to do it, blah, blah, blah. And then you start picking it up and you realize, not only is it kind of easy and deeply pleasurable, but natural. There's a reason that so many humans make music. It is a kind of emotional breathwork.

It is part of what we want to do. And I think that it is sort of trained out of us by shyness. I don't know what it is. But it's like when you're doing it, it sort of feels like you're breathing properly for the first time. And I think developing a sense of aesthetic taste is like that too. Like, all you got to do is look at some magazines, you know? All you got to do is like look at some home decoration internet accounts,

see what people are doing. It's sort of like learning fashion, you know, like people like, I don't know what to buy, so I'm just going to get this junk. It's like, it's not hard to sort of take a look at some examples of fashion and be like, oh, you know what? I respond to that or I don't respond to that or whatever. Like, developing taste and a sense of aesthetic pleasure, whether it's what you wear in your body or what you hang on your walls, is a very human thing to do. It's something that we've been we've been decorating, you know, since we cannibalized the last Neanderthal.

It was like basically, let's eat this Neanderthal's brain. And then let's paint something beautiful on these caves in ancient France. I think that we ate some Neanderthals. that's just part of our gross homo sapient history, which is pretty gross. Point is, I feel like this kind of anti-aesthetic of turning a dank meme into a shower curtain suggests to me that the David of 2016, maybe he's grown a lot since then. It's been almost a decade. But the version of David in 2016 was somebody who was like, I don't, I don't have a say in how

the house is decorated because I don't have any good, I'd have terrible taste. and I want to exercise some power and control over my environment, but I'm not willing to put in the small amount of effort it takes to take it seriously rather than treat it like a joke. Take it seriously. It's a serious thing. It's an art form. It's an art form.

And you have fun doing it. I mean, Jesse, you have fun, you know, thinking about and curating outfits, right? I love it. It's one of the great pleasures of your life. For sure. And when you show up, as I well know, when you show up the very first time you're in my town in Maine and you go to the hardware store and then you carry out a bag of rock salt to the car, all of the ladies at the hardware store are being like, who is your sexy friend? It brings pleasure wherever you go is the point. True story.

Everyone in Maine wanted to hug and kiss Jesse Thorne. That was incredible. the thrift store, the wine shop, the hardware store. Comments galore. You were, you were. You were the king of the Blue Hill Peninsula. You know what? I do have one exception to this ruling that you're leading up to, though, John. Oh, yeah? What's that? If you want to get a shower curtain, one of those pictures of our friend Emily Heller at the Emmys, I think that's an exception.

Either the time that she wore an entire green screen suit so that you could make her outfit into anything you wanted. Or the time that she carried a giant purse with a Getty image's watermark printed on it. Man, every hell are so cool. Truly one of the greats. Truly one of the greats. I don't know whatever ended up happening with the shower curtain, but if it's still up, time to take it down. Here's something from Nick in July 2016.

I'm filing suit against my girlfriend, Julie. I'm taking part in the newest craze called Pokemon. Go. Most of the phrase. I know. I got one of these Tomo Gatchez, Jennifer. Yeah. All right.

Pet Rocks for your benefit, John. How did we not hop on this letter right away to catch the Pokemon Go wave? I don't know. But here we are. Few people of the Max Fun Office still riding that wave. Okay. Most of our friends. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. My six-year-old is a new writer on that wave. Oh, it's nice. Get a, get a little house. Oh, on Pokemon Go? Yeah. Yeah. Most of our friends also play this game.

We all have a group text, and occasionally we meet up for group Pokemon hunts. Julie feels left out, but she doesn't want to download the game and join us, not because she hates it, but because of her concerns over phone storage and data usage. Please order that she play with us or put disappointment aside and ride out the pokey craze in silence. So, Jennifer, I heard that you. you're a six-year-old human child and whole human being in their own right, is into Pokemon Go right now? Yeah, he's into Pokemon Go. But, yeah, he likes Pokemon Go.

So, Pokemon Go, if my memory serves from this ancient new craze of 2016, is an alternate or augmented reality game. So, like, you're holding your phone looking through your camera at the world. But if you have the app open, it might show you that there's a Pokemon right over there. It could be a squirtle. Is that correct? It could be a squirtle. It could be a jigglypuff. It could be a black Rayquaza.

It could be any. Bulbosaur. Any kind of Pokemon. And then you try to catch him. Snorlax. You ever get a sideluck? Probably. That's the duck that always has a headache.

Yeah, probably. I don't know all of the ones. I do know when he catches a jiggly puff because he makes a point to show me, because I think that's my favorite one. I like the idea of all the different Pokemon. and they're all these funny different guys. And you have to mark them off your list like a compulsive birder.

This I like. And I can see a particular appeal of it with my neurodivergent children, all of them went through at least one Pokemon phase. Very amusing, that's great. When that show was on television of my house, it made me want to put a spike through my brain. like I could not bear it.

I tune it out. I'm like, it is so, it is just the junkiest piece of television that has ever existed. And I'm like, can we just put this in the form of like posters for children's bedroom walls? Like, does it have to be a show? Could it only be Pokemon Go and a list of guys? If it was just a list of guys, I feel like I would be fine with it. But I found the show just unwatchable. Yeah, there's all kinds of shows on Netflix that we keep finding and someone in my house wants to keep watching.

And I tune them out. There's one of them, though, called Pokemon Concierge. I don't know what it's about because I refuse to find out. Pokemon's getting people theater tickets and restaurant reservations. I can only assume so. And it looks cute and it doesn't sound as annoying as the other ones. Like the other ones have like a lot of like high-pitched yelling and peep-p-p-p-phew sounds. But so far, Pokemon Concierge doesn't seem that bad.

But again, I am not paying attention at all. Two mezzanine tickets to Hamilton. I choose you. That's what the Pokemon Concierge is. Madame, I have a squatter for you. prepared for you. Would you like a snor relax to go with? My tip.

So how do you keep your six-year-old from driving over people in his car while he's playing Pokemon Go? There were some dangers that were associated with people being distracted in the real world, like tripping over things and falling into the ocean. and such. Our colleagues, Danny Baruella and Jesus Ambrosio, were at some point leading like expeditions into MacArthur Park to catch Pokemon. Yeah. When we go on a, when I say we, it's only sometimes me, mostly my husband will do this with our kid. Yeah. You know, it's already hard enough to get our kid to like, hey, attention to what's going on. I'm constantly telling him, hey, look alive.

But, you know, you know, it works out. But when we're in the car and he wants to play, we're like, you can't. We're going too fast.

It won't let you. So that's safe for... Yeah. That's good. I'm glad. I'm glad that's safe. Yeah, exactly.

You got to catch him. You got to field dress them. Give him fruit for some reason. What's the ruling for Nick? Well, I mean, obviously it's been a decade of, a decade of screaming for the United States. And I presume as somewhat of a decade of decline, Jennifer's son notwithstanding for Pokemon Go. If Nick is still playing Pokemon Go, at this point, I can imagine that Julie's concerns over phone storage and data usage, which sounded like a smokescreen to begin with, probably have been resolved. there's a lot of, there are a lot of good data packages out there.

Here's what I'm going to order. It's over, Nick. Not your marriage, but Pokemon Go. And I presume it's not part of your life. But for old times sake, in order to, bring out the old, bring out the old Pokemon Go. And you and Julie just go go out there

and hunt some Pokemon together. Just to put some closure on this. It's like her learning the mandolin. You go out into the world of a nice evening and you find some Pokemon. And then maybe while you're out there, swing by the ice cream parlor. Either for real or euphemistically, your choice. Just one game.

You get one game of Pokemon Go, one Sesh, I should say, because it's an ongoing game. You got to catch them all. But in this case, you just catch them some and have one good evening of it. when the weather warms up. Doc, it's clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. The program created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman, our social media specialist, Megan Rizotti, the podcast is edited by A.J. McKeon, Daniel Spears, our video producer.

The show is produced by Jennifer Marmer. Follow us on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman and check out our full episodes on YouTube at Judge John Hodgman pod. Speaking of YouTube, our YouTube comment of the week this week comes. Princess Dendar who commented, I'm so glad to be subscribed to the Judge John Hodgman YouTube channel so I can see all of the obscure

cultural reference guesses that Hodgman writes down. I do assiduously write down each guess. I show the camera every time, but I'm actually doing it. There's so much that we have fun with on the YouTube channel, and I do hope you will join us there

by going to YouTube and subscribing. Also hit that like, share, subscribe, and comment. do everything, you know. And by the way, if you enjoy this kind of rollicking docket, just me and Jesse and Jennifer reading some letters and talking about things, well, let me remind you that we do a members-only mailbag episode every month in which we read letters from listeners that aren't necessarily disputes.

Sometimes they're comments, sometimes they're critiques, sometimes their little stories about things that are going on in their day. And their day could be your day too. If you become a member at maximum fund.org slash joint membership start at $5 a month, all of a sudden you unlock an extra episode of Judge John Hodgman and your bonus content. Every month, it's the members-only mailbag. We have a lot of fun doing it, and this gives you a little bit of a vibe of what it's like, except it's even more rollicking.

And probably I would have said in the Membo's only mailbag that when I was talking about swinging by the ice cream parlor, I meant going to a swingers club and having sex. That's something I would have said in the members-only mailbag, but I wouldn't say in the mailbag. Yeah. Yeah. Maximumfund.org slash join. You can become a member anytime you want, and we have our big Maxfund drive coming up. In the meantime, speaking of lexicography, let's hear some more cases about the written word. Do you have any disputes about reading or books? Have you been trying to read a novel with your wife as a whole human being in your own right? But she's a faster reader than you. And she just finished Lonesome Dove yesterday and you still have 150 pages to go. Is this a true story? Yes. Onsome Doves, a great novel, by the way. What do you do if you are not enjoying the book that you are reading? Do you ever put it down? Is it fair to give it up?

Or do you suffer through it? Because that's the kind of person you are. What is the worst book to film adaptation? I'll tell you right now. It's Stanley Kubrick's Lolita. Completely misunderstood the book. I mean, an interestingly made movie wildly, wildly. wild and dangerous misinterpretation about what Lilita is all about. If you disagree with me, let me know

Maximumfund.org slash JJHO is where you send in all your disputes about books and literary materials and everything else in the world. You know what my dispute is? No. It's with the entire world until two months ago who didn't tell me how much I needed to read

the novel True Grit. Yeah. Charles Portis. Holy how. Holy how does true grit rip. Thanks to my friend Roman Mars from 99% Invisible. He posed it on blue sky or something. He was like, are there other books like True Grit?

Also is True Grit the greatest book ever written? And I was like, all right. I saw it at the thrift store for a dollar. I bought it. I brought it on a trip to Mexico. ago, I was reading it. I was like, every paragraph, there was something, I had no idea. I had no idea.

I was like, this is the, I blew my mind. I was like, this is the most delightful thing I have ever engaged with in any medium ever. Anyway. I think, you know, I offer, I'm a pretentious boob. Right. And I read. I give bookish, as they say. Sure.

But in fact, reading for pleasure is something I've honestly struggled with. There's some books that I absolutely love. But it feels, and especially since I worked in book publishing, it started to feel like homework to me to read books, which was sad because the truth is, if you're not a reader, you might get this idea in your head, like reading's not for me, or it's too challenging, or that's not how I engage with stories. Fair enough. But I'm telling you something, whether it's a written book,

or an audio book, however you engage in long form prose storytelling, there is a book out there that is going to blow your mind. And experiencing a book is different from everything else. It is really wonderful. You find a book. Find a book that loves you the way true grit blew Jesse's mind. There will be a book out there that will blow your mind. It's so funny. Getting your mind blown. I had no idea. It was so funny. Anyway, it's also exciting. It's got a lot of good violence in it. Yeah, it's enjoyable.

George Saunders. Like, just, anyway, read books. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO is where to submit your disputes, no matter what they're about. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Read books is what I say. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artists-owned shows.

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