Judge John Hodgman - Justice is Blinds

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Alex and his wife, Kim, recently bought a house in Maine. Kim wants to install blinds in the windows. Alex is opposed. He loves waking up to the sunlight. Alex says blinds will cast a shadow on his sunny mornings. But Kim doesn’t want nosy Mainers looking in her windows at night! Who's right? Who's wrong?Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething.We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman!Thanks to reddit user u/dinosaur1972 for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Join at $5 a month at maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, justice is blinds. Alex brings the case against his wife, Kim. Alex and Kim recently bought a house in Maine. Kim wants to install blinds in the windows. Alex is opposed. He loves waking up to the sunlight.

Alex says blinds will cast a shadow on his sunny mornings. But Kim doesn't want any nosy mainers looking in her windows at night. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Dad still lives in the town where he was born. Says he's got nowhere else to go. He's been working the same job since 62, knows everything he'll ever need to know. Every day at five, he'd come home from the plant, pull up and honk his horn. He'd go into the kitchen, come out with a beer, and unbutton his uniform. And I never understood the expression on his face, but finally it's making sense to me. Because when Grandpa passed away, I inherited his clothes and a job down at the factory,

living second rate, working second shift, and somehow 20 years went by, I ended up like dad in the town where I was born, and I'll never question why. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the lid against him. Alex, Kim, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever? Yes, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that we've been struggling with the flat, cold outdoor light that comes through his blindless office window? Yes. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Alex and Kim, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment.

Now look, no one's gonna know what you're talking about, Jesse, unless they're watching on the YouTube. I'm just gonna interrupt myself there. If you're watching on the YouTube, you'll know sometimes I get washed out by the light. And if you're watching the YouTube right now, you'll see I am in Brooklyn, New York,

sweating like bananas. This time next week, though, I'll be in my summer chambers up there at weru.org in Maine, where it will be cooler and air conditioned. Looking forward to it. I'm thinking about Maine. That's what we're talking about today with Alex and Kim, who may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

I would say Martin Heidegger's philosophy of dwelling. I did not see that coming. I know. When you said Martin, I figured you were talking about the 90s Foxycom Martin. No, it's a philosophy. Look, I studied Heidegger a long time ago. See? Around the same time I was studying Martin. Alex, it's your turn to guess. What's your guess?

I have no idea. So I'm going to go with my pre-guessed guess, which is, I'm going to say it is a quote from the architect, Philip Johnson, the creator of the Glass House in Connecticut. Connecticut? We're not talking about Connecticut. I know, but it is a glass house. I like that idea.

All right. All guesses are wrong. I was, in fact, quoting the entirety of the lyrics of a song called In the Town Where I Was Born by the Pinkerton Thugs. Kim, Alex, you must know the Pinkerton Thugs. Big fans? I don't. Well, they're only Kennebunk Maine's most famous anarchist punk band.

Sweet. Founded in 1993 by Kennebunk native Micah Smaldone on guitar and vocals, also Paul Russo and James Whitten on drums and bass. Specifically, that song In the Town Where I Was Born, is the most mournful and intimate song on their otherwise wildly and racingly political and angry album, Pain and the Pinkerton Thugs. Only one of their two albums that came out in that lineup of the band in 1997.

And so you got it wrong, so we're gonna hear the case. Before we get started, you have this home, Alex, in Maine that you've had for about a year. What's the Anarchist Punk scene like there now? Still vibrant? Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I mean, the reason why we... So we have a house in Arlington and we've been going to... Arlington what? Maine? Arlington, Massachusetts. Arlington, Connecticut? Arlington and we've been going to- Arlington what? Maine?

Arlington, Massachusetts. Sorry. Arlington, Connecticut? Arlington, Massachusetts. Is it a glass house that you're throwing a stone in right now? No, it's very opposite of a glass house. Arlington, Texas? Do the Texas Rangers play there?

There are a lot of Arlington's. And we've been, ever since we moved here from Ohio out of college, we've been going up north to Maine. We tried going south to Cape Cod, just so crazy, lots of tourists. So we started going up north to Maine and we just fell in love with it. And about a year ago-

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're going up north to Maine, but you're in Kennebunk, Maine. No, we're- You're aware that people in Maine call that Northern Massachusetts. Yeah, fair enough. Whatever.

Yes, just crossing into Maine. But it's a place we really fell in love with. And about a year ago, we bought a fixer-upper. I really like carpentry, working on houses, all that kind of stuff. So we wanted something that we could work on over time and just kind of turn it into something we can grow with our family. So yeah, it's a different vibe than Boston. And so that's kind of the whole idea is we just wanted to, and it's only an hour and a half away.

So like we can get there at a reasonable time, but you feel like you're in a completely different place. The first place I ever visited in Maine was Kennebunk Port. Yes. Yes. As a guest of George Herbert Walker Bush. That's right. Yes.

That's right. I visited the Bush compound as a nine-year-old. No, my, my, you know, I grew up in the, in the Boston area as well. And I was one of those Massachusetts holes as they're called, who gets, who goes up to Southern Maine to get away from it all and go from one very dense place to another very dense places. In this case, very dense with fried clams and little wooden statues of fishermen. And we would stay at the colony hotel.

You ever go there in Kennebunkport? It's still there. Oh, we've talked about it so many times, but no, we're also very cheap. So, yeah, no, I mean, you know, whatever it's the call. The colony hotel is a grand old hotel. I think the main hotel still doesn't have any air conditioning. And I think they have annex buildings that do. And when I was a little kid, we went there a couple of times and it was very old school. We were seated at the same table for dinner every night and we had to wear jackets.

Yeah. It was like we were on the Queen Mary or something. And there was no television in the rooms. There was a television room off the lobby. But Kennebunkport is different from Kennebunk. Kennebunk is a little bit more inland. Exactly. What's it like over there? I don't think I've ever been.

I would say it's more long-term residents, year-round residents. It's a fabulous place. There's always something going on. It doesn't seem like Maine to me. Right. Little events. I'm talking about the little pavilion and more small town feel. You could say Kinneybunkport is the more touristy right near the coast,

whereas Kinneybunk is inland and where all the locals tend to live in less touristy. And you get some fresh bananas around there? You ever go to the last service plaza? I've never seen them. I've never seen them there. You're referring, of course, to Jonathan Niederer, the fresh banana man of the northbound

Kennebunk Service Plaza. Or was it southbound, actually? I apologize, Jonathan, if you're listening. We haven't been in touch for some time. And he hasn't been flogging bananas there for years. It's not his fault. We never go to the southbound. We always go to the northbound.

Right. You know, it's not, it's not, I think they just stopped selling bananas there. Oh, or maybe you self check out your bananas now. I don't know. Um, but anyway, there you are in Kennebunk. Um, and, uh, and you've had this house for a year. And the issue here is that the windows don't have any blinds or curtains for the most part.

Is that right, Kim? That is correct. There's some curtains. They were there when we bought the house, but they have been taken down for renovation and we need them back. Well, you want them back, Kim, but Alex, you do not. Is that right?

That's the crux of this case? Yes. Or at least the ostensible crux until I dig apart your very souls and find the emotional crux. It's not gonna happen. Wow. You said you're from Ohio,

but you actually sound like you're from New England. There's no way you're gonna see into my soul. His soul is, yeah. I've left very few people in. My emotions are well locked up. Yeah. I let very few people in. My emotions are well locked up. No.

No. No. Kim, you want to put shades on these windows because the sunlight will kill you, right? Of course. That's the reason. Now, I would like the blinds to go back up because it's privacy to have that option

to close up the house, be able to walk around the house, not feel like someone's, you know, staring at me. Walk around the house in the nude. I hear most people who vacation in Kennebunk are nudists. Is that true? Maybe we need the blinds to shut the world out. Anyway, how, but you know, when I, when I think of Maine, I think hiding in the woods, how close are you to other homes? We have one house right next door to us

and one across the street. Well, it's a street full of houses on the other side. And then we also have woods on our left side and in the back. You actually send in some photos of your home, which is fantastic, because it makes me feel like I get to invade your home. And I'm going to look at these exhibits now.

And obviously these photos will be available on the show page at maximumfund.org, on all of our social media. And if you're watching on the YouTube channel Judge John Hodgman Podd right now, you can see them. Okay. Exhibit A, kitchen windows facing neighbor. Yeah, I can see some homes right through those windows. Yes.

All right. Yeah, two different houses through there. Two different houses. Is relatively close. Yeah. Do you know those neighbors? Are they also nudists? No, but they're very nice.

They're lovely people. Right. We've lucked out. And then you have exhibit B, nook facing neighbor. Yes, so there you see their garage and then the house is next to it. And we are, yeah, they're wonderful people. It's just during the day it's better. And can I say, this looks like a beautiful home.

You mentioned, Alex, that it was a fixer-upper, but it looks a little fix-it-up to me. We have been going there every weekend since we bought this place and just putting in crazy hours, lots of trim where I just tons of carpentry. We painted every square inch of that place. Yourselves? Yes. Well done.

Well, mostly me. Excuse me, yourself, Kim, not you, Alex. Yes, myself, thank you. Well done. Well, yeah, any of the, Wayne's Cotting, we did a ton of board and batten throughout the house. Just, you know, there was no charm inside, so that's kind of been our goal. I see two bird houses on a shelf.

Is that for indoor wild birds? Wild children. Alex built those with the kids. That is trim from our house in Arlington. And one weekend the kids and I were bored, made those things, brought it up to the house, still haven't hung them up, but we plan to put them outside here soon. And there is a book on the table there in your reading nook, uh, judging from the cover, which is how I judge all my books.

Would that be, uh house by Kathleen Hackett with photography by Maura McEvoy and Basha Burwell? Yes, that's it. It is an awesome book. We love it. Yeah, I know Basha from Maine even. A wonderful interior stylist and photographer. Because that book is there, I believe you are in Maine. I believe, or at least I believe you're

a Massachusetts person living in Maine sometimes. Yeah. I believe they're in a Maine vacation home because they have indoor birdhouses. That gave it away. Yeah, you built two little birdhouses for your soul. Yeah. Alex, these neighbors, they're across the

street, but they're pretty close. They can see into your house. Yeah, I'm I'm certain. Don't you want privacy? I feel like I should quick Can I quickly bring up our house in Arlington, which has every window covered with blinds? has every window covered with blinds. Yeah. And what happens is when it gets dark out, all blinds get closed in the house. And they stay closed. When it gets dark out, so people can't see into your home.

Correct. Right. And they stay closed. We go to bed. Blinds are closed in our room. I wake up in the morning to darkness. I go downstairs to start eating breakfast. Alex, you and me both.

And my blinds are wide open. I go downstairs, it's darkness, and it's just, I never get to experience sunrises. There's no connection to outside. There's no sun coming in. And I just, I feel like such focus is placed on privacy at our house in Arlington that my hope is that this main house can be more of a focus on connection to the outside, not closing up the house so much, going to bed, and then waking up.

I just want to come down the stairs and have sun spilling in. He wants to blur the line between indoor and outdoor space by having birdhouses inside his house. Man. And presumably, somewhere, a little wooden lighthouse. One presumes. It has to be. You don't know whether it's on display somewhere or if it's been hidden in the walls for a hundred years.

There is one there though, for sure. One of those copper pots that's shaped like a lobster. Sure, of course. I bet you wanna get some copper pots. Would that be like a lobster jello mold? Yeah, I think it must be a lobster jello mold or for making like something out of aspect or something. Oh. Yeah. Or something.

I understand what you're talking about. People have been going from Massachusetts to Maine for solitude and connection to the outdoors for hundreds of years. But Kennebunk, and particularly where you are, you're not in the middle of the woods or on the top of a mountain or the edge of a lake or an ocean. You're in a fairly closely densely settled community. Yes. It's more like a suburban neighborhood.

Yes. My fear is going to this place. So I feel like I have given in on this house in Arlington. And I just feel like I don't know what the solution is, but I feel like I need to fight the blind. You've given in to whom? Say the word, Kim. Kim, my wife.

Can I also say in winter, the length of day is so short that when I leave the house to go to work, it's dark in the mornings, go to work. By the time I get home, it's dark again. There's points in the winter where I never see windows open. Right. And you work in a mine. I, it just, no, I mean, I just, I'm so afraid of this transferring over. I feel like if I let one blind in to the house of Maine, it's just going to.

I don't know. I guess I don't know what the solution is. Well, not all of your windows face your neighbors. In fact, you sent in exhibits C and D, Charlie and Delta, using the NATO phonetic alphabet, which I still have not memorized. Outrageous. I need to work on that this summer. Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo.

Now I'm forgetting the alphabet. Foxtrot. In any case, it exhibits Delta and Charlie. Are your dining room, and all I see there are, through those windows are beautiful green trees. What are they looking out on? The woods, those two back kitchen windows look at the woods and then the side pantry window looks at our garage.

It's a nature preserve, so nothing will ever be built back there. You can't see through the woods to anything on the backside. Like it is completely private. There's not even pathways that people can walk through. It's all just private back there. Yeah. Do you get any mooses or bears and squirrels and whatnot

taking a look at your little nudie bodies? You know, the deer are out there. Yeah, we've seen deer. We've seen some fox. Some fox. No moose yet. No. Whatever wildlife is out there, Kim, you would love to put blinds on these windows too,

or maybe just spray paint them black so no one can ever see into your home. Is that right? What do you wanna do with these windows on the nature preserve side? So those, I mean, I like the option to have everything closed off, but again, those two, the double ones do face the woods.

The one on the left faces our garage and the door on the right is to the porch right out to the front yard and to the road. Kim, I've seen all the photos. I understand the layout of your home very, very well. Right. So I would like that door on the right covered for sure. But the nature preserve windows, are you willing to let those be bare? V-A-R-E? If I had to choose, I would have the option to close everything off, but yeah, those are, I guess, less visible to others.

In this other house, in the not main house, what are the window treatments? Because we've been using the word blinds a lot. So in our Arlington house, I will add that we live at a five way intersection. And so you've got roads coming towards our house and it's very busy with pedestrians and we sit not, we're not level to the road.

So we're up a little higher. So people up the road, you can see right in at night. And we do have blinds on every window, not always used, but. The two inch foe blinds that you go to Home Depot and they have literally entire aisle of just these blinds. Are we talking about Venetian blinds? Are we talking about vertical? Are we talking about roller blinds?

Are we talking about horizontal slot, slat blinds? They're like two inches thick and maybe like a one and a half inch gap between each one and there's just a bunch of them. And, um, you can like twist the, the whatever that, twist the rod rod and change the angle, or you can lift them completely up out of the way the issue. I mean, there's, there's an aesthetic component to this as well, which is those blinds. They used to have the nice draw string

that you could just like pull the string and they go up and they're kind of bunch up nice and tight up there. Now the new ones, cause I guess the pull strings were like a child hazard, choking hazard. They switched to the mechanism where now it's, you kind of lift up on the bottom and they just kind of go up. Oh yeah.

They're, they do not function well at all. In my opinion, after a couple of years of saying, because they don't go up high enough, they don't raise enough in the window to let in as much light as you like. It's really thick at the bottom. So when you lift those things up, now you're looking at like five inches of just plastic up there at the top of the window and they just break down. when you lift those things up, now you're looking at like five inches of just plastic up there at the top of the window. And they just break down.

So like there's half the blinds in our house now, you kind of really have to give force to lift it. They just don't function well. Well, they don't function well being open, but Kim, you feel they function well being closed, right? Yes, I like that. Because they block out all light and peering eyes. Exactly, no one can stare at me through the window

if the blinds are closed. Did I understand correctly when Alex was sort of giving the situation at your home in Massachusetts, you close all the blinds at night? Yes, I do. Do you have an upstairs and downstairs situation? Yes. So all, even you have an upstairs and downstairs situation? Yes. So all, even you go up to bed at night, but you close all the blinds downstairs too?

Yeah, I close them when it gets dark when people can start looking in or I feel more exposed, which I can't control, you know, the sunset in the winter. It does start to get dark at 330 or 4 4.00 p.m. on the East Coast. So by the time he gets home, they are closed. But yes, I do close all of them at night, particularly once we get the kids to bed. I like to just close the blinds, disconnect from the outside world, and just feel that we have our private space.

How many kids do you have? Two. And you're hiding them from the world? Essentially. Well, they're put to bed by that time. Alex intimated that this was a compromise or at least a point of discussion in your marriage that he feels he's gotten the raw end of. Was this a conversation?

Like, I want to have the window blinds down all the time. He was like, I don't. And then you were like, well, too bad. Or how did it come about that the system happened? Well, we actually talk about it a lot because he's unhappy when the blinds are closed when he gets home. And so we've discussed it over the years,

wherever we've lived. But ultimately I'm the one who's home more with the kids. So I just naturally do that. Or when they were littler, it was kind of their clue that it was bedtime. And so we just closed them all and that type of stuff. I would say it's gotten maybe, it started when we first bought the house in Arlington,

it was, we bought the blinds. I was excited to kind of get something up there. It was kind of the first place where we had control over that sort of thing. But I think over the years, the winters have really taken their toll on me. And I am struggling more and more to have these windows closed just all the time. It's not like you grew up on the equator. Right. It's not like you grew up on the equator. Right. It's not like you grew up in a place that,

you're from Ohio, right? Yes. Didn't you say, is that where you grew up? Yes. Alex, it sounds like part of this is the fact that you are not experiencing the opened blind hours of your house because you're off at work.

How does it feel to come home at six o'clock or whenever you come home from work and walk into a house where all the blinds are drawn? It's, it's one of those things where I just, I don't know. I just, I don't know. It's very depressing to just not be able to look out into the world. I don't know. It's hard to explain. You work in an office in Massachusetts somewhere? In Porter Square.

Yeah, right in Porter Square. Oh, in Cambridge. Yes. What kind of work do you do? Do you want to say or no? No, I was fine. I'm a architecture visualizer. So architects and developers come to us

and with their designs, and then we illustrate their buildings to look photorealistic so they can market them. Oh, you do the real work. Yeah. It's the fun work, yeah. When you draw your pictures of little houses, do you black out all the windows and in obsessive disgust, no light allowed?

No, but I mean, a big thing of what we do is like every interior that we render. Um, it's all about the natural light coming in. Like that's a big selling point to everything we do is like how much natural light is coming into the space. Everyone always wants to maximize that. Right. So let's say in the winter time you're coming home and the, and you're the, you know, the, the sun is down and the blinds are closed.

There's no natural light anyway. Why do you want to open up those window shades unless you want the creeps to look at you? It's, I, it's a mental thing. I feel like when you walk into a space and everything's just closed off, maybe it's an old age thing, but as I get older, the winters are just getting harder and harder for me. And I don't know, I just want to.

Maybe it's an old age thing. Would you say? Yeah. Yeah, how old are you? 40. All right, I think I know everything I need to know. Would you say? Yeah. Yeah. How old are you? Forty. All right. I think I know everything I need to know.

But let's leave the evening time aside for a moment. What about the morning? What are your different preferences in the morning? I also get a lot of energy, I feel like, by just waking up from the sun. And when those, because all the bedrooms are closed off, the kids' bedrooms are closed off, everything's closed off. So the entire second floor, there's just nothing coming in in the mornings.

And when we wake up in Maine, like we, the sun is coming in and it's just such a good feeling. I don't know, there's something, I don't know how to explain it. And I just, I really like that sensation. You must really be very, very old. These blinds do not function well at all. But in all sincerity, I understand that these blinds stink because they do.

I've experienced those blinds. They're garbage. And they're supposed to go two ways and they, and for about three months, they're genuinely pretty impressive and then they sort of stop working and they make your life miserable from there on. Yes. miserable from there on. Yes.

But there are other ways to cover windows, including sheer and semi sheer options, including treatments to the actual windows. Yeah. Including, dare I say this word, John, curtains? Curtains. including, dare I say this word, John, curtains? Curtains. Here's my question. How did the two of you feel about sheer or semi-sheer curtains?

If you had, Kim, if you were sitting in your house at night before you've gone to bed, you're watching television or whatever, and you have a privacy curtain drawn, but not a blackout curtain, how would you feel? I think it'd be better than nothing. As long as it obscures the view enough. I mean, if I were just a shadow behind this sheer curtain,

it may make me feel a little bit more hidden. But I think another part of it is it is at night we have a lot of cars that go by and if it were sheer then those headlights would still probably get through. Are the headlights disturbing to you because just the light crosses your eyes and wakes you up or are you concerned that the headlights have souls and they're watching you? Mostly the fact that I wake up a lot at night and the lights just get my brain going. Kim is definitely very sensitive to light,

like very sensitive to the point I had to put electrical tape on our TV in our bedroom that has the little standby red thing I had to cover that. There can be no light coming in because you are very sensitive to light. I do wear, I do have an eye mask. Kim, have you got that kind with the that makes you look like a like a bubble eye bug man? I tried but it scared the kids so I just keep it simple now.

Okay because that bubble eye bug man kind is tremendous. This is like molded neoprene or something. So it sounds like Alex, you would like in the morning, whether it's in Maine or Massachusetts, to be woken up by the bright sunlight, smashing into your face and your closed eyelids like it's a Folgers commercial or something. I have given into the fact that the Arlington house

is what it is and that is what it will continue to be. I think what I'm asking for is that in Maine, we put the priority on, yes, light coming in, connection to the outside, not closing up the entire house every night. Almost like we prioritize in Arlington privacy. I would like in Maine to prioritize nature and light and whatnot. And how does that make you feel, Kim? Anxious.

When I, at night when I just want to get a snack from the kitchen, I'm in the kitchen and I feel tremendous anxiety. And I, it's, I sit there watching a TV show and the, you know, blinds are, are exposed or open and exposed and in Maine, we don't have any in the living room. And I just sit there thinking like, Oh, am I hidden or can someone see me? Or I just would rather hide under a blanket. You've been living this experiment of a blindless life for about a year. Yes.

And so, do you feel self-conscious when you're downstairs at night watching television or whatever? You feel like people are looking at you? Yeah, and I avoid the kitchen if I can. I just feel exposed and I feel comfortable around our neighbors. Even though the kitchen is overlooking a nature preserve. So it's only bears and deers looking at you. True.

You know, the kitchen, the windows are a little higher up. So it would probably, and we're higher up off the ground from the outside back there. So you'd probably only see my face if I were up at the window. So I feel a little bit more, you know, protected from that. Alex, why do you want your wife to be terrified all the time? I don't want her to be terrified. I don't know. I almost feel like the Arlington house has gotten so far. I don't want to say out of hand, but it's just so far catered towards the privacy. I feel like I'm giving up a lot for that house. I feel like just this house in Maine,

maybe we treat it a little differently. I definitely don't want her to feel anxious being in the house. I guess I'm just not sure what the solution is. If we could go back to the ideas of curtains, we've done so much work with the woodworking and wainscotting throughout the house. There's definitely an aesthetic component to it. The blinds, like I was saying, when those go up, it's just there's so much plastic there. I don't want to see this ugly plastic in our windows.

With the curtains, I think there's situations where curtains could work, but in a lot of the house, like they're just going to cover up all this woodworking that we spent so much time putting in. And again, aesthetically, I'm just, I would prefer not to see curtains. Jesse, you had suggested curtains to them. What do you see as curtains offering as an advantage over blinds?

Well, there are two primary temporal windows where this conflict exists. And I think they're a little bit separate. One is waking up in the bedroom. Yes. And the question of whether they will rise with natural light or whether they will have a dark bedroom. Different people have different preferences about that.

And part of the concern here is that Alex wakes up when Kim is still asleep. And Alex would like to wake up with the light, right? The other piece of it is the evening when they're around the house. Yeah. And in that case, it's a question of Kim feeling uncomfortable being looked in upon and Alex feeling like he wants to be able to look out. A privacy curtain, for example, uh, would obscure the look in while still giving

some feeling of not being claustrophobic or trapped that Alex is seeking. Kim and Alex, what is the plan for this home in Maine? How much time do you intend to spend up there? I'll ask you, Kim. We've been going every weekend, like Alex said, and we'd like to spend a majority of our summers out there outside of work time, and whenever we have family in town, we take them up there, they can stay with us.

So at least a few times a month we would like to ideally go up there. It's primarily a vacation home, a second vacation home. You're not planning to move there permanently in the future. No, I mean, when we retire maybe. Maybe long term. Oh yeah, because you're just around the corner from retirement. You're 40 years old. You're right. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I can barely grasp the strings of a. Yeah, you have a few slender seconds before you walk into the grave

to enjoy the sunshine. What is your specific proposal for the main house, Alex? When I go up there, there's times when I'll be working on the house. I'll drive up there on my own and I am at peace the whole time I'm sleeping there. It really does not bother me to not have window coverings. I think my biggest thing is no blinds at all. We have talked at all. Throughout the house.

That's your position. I would like a blindness house, yes. No compromise, the foundation of any solid marriage. Do you find that that's fair, Kim? No. I would like blinds, I would like the option to cover the windows during the day, they're all open, the kids are playing with the neighbors and we keep them open, but I would like the option to be able to cover all the windows to feel

less anxious than my own home. You know, uh, Alex said that when he wakes up in Maine, he feels wonderful because light is pouring in the windows and he slept very well. How would you describe your sleep experience in Maine? Yeah, well, in Maine, yeah, currently there are no blinds at all. And at the end of our bed is one of the windows. So it's just directly right in front of us. And so you've got a streetlight off to one side and I feel half awake the whole night, not able to settle and just restless

and not able to sleep very well. So your bedroom in Maine, I presume it's on a second floor. Yes. So it's a little bit harder to see into, but it also seems to be facing the street, right? Cause the populated area, not the nature preserve cause you've got a streetlight out there. That's correct. And it faces south. Do you have a bedroom that you could move into

that would face the nature world? We do. Actually, we do. Have you ever considered moving your bedroom in there? Well, when the house was under construction, we did bounce around from room to room, and that was one that we enjoyed because it was near the nature. It's a smaller room.

All right. Let me just make sure I understand before I go into my chambers and close my curtains and think about this. Kim, your position is you want blinds on every window. And Alex, your position is you want blinds on zero windows. Correct. And there is there. I mean, I mean, one of you has got to blink, right? That's one way to shut out the light. Blink.

Right. I would say I would be open the curtains in certain spaces. I guess the idea would have to be that curtains need to be limited to neighbor-facing windows, but I would also ask that if we do do curtains of some sort. Have you considered the possibility that after Kim falls pleasantly asleep, that you get up in the middle of the night and tiptoe through the house, opening up all of the drapes and curtains and blinds, maybe while wearing a hockey mask? BOTH LAUGH

I know that wouldn't apply for the bedroom because I know you are very sensitive to light. I know that's always an issue. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my chambers. I'm going to close all of the drapes, and I'll be back in my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Kim, how are you feeling right now? I feel pretty good. I feel it's reasonable to feel comfortable in your own home and to not feel anxious at night when you wanna just relax and watch a movie together. So we'll see. Is it possible you're just feeling good

because there's no windows in that recording studio? I know, no one can see me. Alex, how are you feeling? I realized that it's ridiculous to not have my wife feel comfortable in our Maine retreat. I think this is maybe perhaps a bit of not wanting our house in Maine to be like Arlington. You're also allowed to want to feel comfortable. Yeah.

Yeah. I just feel like what I'm asking maybe, I don't know. Is unreasonable. Yeah. Maybe we just invest in those like super expensive blinds that go up at a certain time. Even though we have no money for them. certain time. You know we have no money for you. No. I mean, I think there's no doubt that you basically, you Alex seem to want to live in

like a glass geodesic dome and Kim wants to live 40 feet below the surface of the earth. Only at night. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second. Judge John Hodgman, the second season of your smash hit podcast, E Pluribus Motto is available now and I will be very dismayed if Judge John Hodgman listeners do not check out this wonderful program.

Our first episode of the second season is on the great state of Maryland. Janet Varney and I had a great time discussing the only state motto in the United States that is in Italian, fatimaschi parole femine. Don't look up the translation, listen to the podcast. Maryland also has one of the wildest state flags. Maskey Parole Feminae. Don't look up the translation, listen to the podcast.

Maryland also has one of the wildest state flags. We also hear a lot about the history of the black sailors in the Chesapeake Bay, the Baltimore accent, William Dorsey Swan, who may arguably be the very first drag performer in United States history. And of course, Scrapple. Janet and I had such a great time discussing all of these state mottos and mascots and mammals and monsters, official and unofficial, plus all kinds of little known facts and weird trivia. And we hope that you will listen to it.

It's called E Pluribus Motto and it is available right now on maximum fun.org wherever you get your podcasts and Jesse Thorne, what's going on with you? Well, we are in the midst of the second wind of our fundraiser for Al Otro Lado, which is an organization that provides legal and humanitarian support to migrants on both sides of the US-Mexico border. Obviously, here in Los Angeles,

things have been really grotesque and hairy with families being torn apart, people being arrested and detained. And, I mean, my wife literally just watched a video of our congressperson going to an immigration detention facility in order to exercise his congressional oversight obligations and being told he couldn't visit it because it was a processing facility, not a detention facility.

And he then took the people out to the giant sign outside that said detention facility and was still told he couldn't go in there. Um, so it's a really, it's a really dark and scary time for, uh, for us here in LA. I know some similar things have been happening in New York City where you live, John. Um, so this is a direct way that you can support people who are seeking refuge in our nation of immigrants. It's alotrolado.org slash let's do something.

And we, we will have that link in the show description as well. So alotrolado.org slash let's do something. And yeah. And thanks to everybody who's given thanks to everybody who's given, thanks to everybody who has taken action to protect themselves and their family members and their neighbors during really tough time. Indeed.

Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Well first of all I want to thank you both and especially you Kim for allowing us all to peer through the windows into your home and case it. Or we're not casing it, we're admiring it, I am definitely. This is a gorgeous looking home and everything about it I like. I'm grateful to say I think that your taste and not only is your taste the main house book worthy,

but your skills are astonishing if you've been doing this painting and this Wayne Scotting and everything else yourself. It looks great. And I look at these windows without any treatments on them at all. And I'm like, doesn't get better than this. Look at that view out the kitchen window. All that wonderful nature. I mean, this is what you go to Maine for, right? To let light come in, look out at the nature and everything else. But on the other hand, you know, I've been living in New York City for 30 odd years. And the idea of privacy has become so quaint to me that I don't care anymore. Like we have an across the alleyway neighbor who is not intent upon invading our privacy,

it just happens. And oftentimes when I would go out in my backyard, she would yell down at me, Brooklyn, because I'm from Brooklyn, Massachusetts. And she went to Brooklyn High School too. It's like, what's going on? I'm like, I'm trying to lounge out here in the sun and maybe do one ab crunch in order to become immortal.

But you know, just because I am more comfortable as obviously your husband is, um, with the concept of being seen, no matter how likely or unlikely it is in either Kennebunk or Arlington, doesn't mean that you need to be Kim. And here we come to the real conflict and we've been dancing around it for a while. This place in Kennebunk is supposed to be your retreat. And yet your style of comfort is very, very different. Kim really wants privacy and Alex really wants sunshine. And what's standing between those things aside from your mutual

unwillingness to compromise is these garbage blinds that you got from Lowe's or whatever. Now I was listening in when I was in my chambers and I heard Kim say, well, maybe we should just get those blinds that go up and down automatically on a routine, some smart blinds. And I appreciate, you know, now that you've made this investment in this home and you've put in a lot of work and I'm sure the materials were very expensive, that you both were sort of feeling like, yeah, but we can't afford that. I would say you should. I mean, you should find a way to both be comfortable in this home.

Kim deserves a retreat and a place of peace and quiet. And as well, Alex, you deserve a retreat and a place where you can live in a style that is more relaxing to you than living in the prison of your Arlington home. Now, I'm not suggesting that you replace the blinds in your Arlington home. Now I'm not suggesting that you replace the blinds in your Arlington home. Arlington, I don't know a lot about Arlington as a town, but I do know a lot about Massachusetts and it's dead to me as it should be to you. That is the past. You cannot fix the past. Now is the time to come up with some solution that serves both of your senses of well-being

in the future, which is Kennebunk, Maine. It's a little bit... I don't know whether it's dramatic irony or tragic or whatever, but the place that you chose to be your retreat might as well be Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts. I mean, it's not rural per se. It's more of a settled, you know, like suburban neighborhood where there are people who can see in.

And absolutely it's the case that you need to have privacy in those windows where humans are going to be able to routinely see in, whether they're walking a dog or passing by in a car or peering across the street through binoculars, whatever they're up to. You need window treatments there. And the thing that I feel like is missing from this whole conversation is the fact that window treatments can be beautiful.

You know, they don't just have to be garbage blinds that you get from Lowe's that don't work very well. And I understand that these window treatments cost a lot of money, and that is annoying and frustrating, and perhaps it's out of reach, but I think that you should maybe start saving up for a window treatment solution that is not the bare bones blackout lines that you're getting off the bottom of the racket lows, but in fact do accommodate your two very different styles of light and privacy needs and tolerance. So I don't think that you should be automatically ruling out Alex curtains or privacy shears, particularly in those windows that face human occupation.

And equally Kim, I think you should be open to the idea that in the part of the house that faces the nature preserve, the blinds should be so minimal or the curtains should be so minimal that it's very, that it may be open more often than not, you know. But I don't like to, I, this is a judgment podcast. Someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. And I don't like compromise unless, unless you're trying to have a marriage. In which case, yeah, you both have to be a little bit uncomfortable in order to each of you maintain a certain level of comfort.

It cannot be all one or the other, not even in Maine. I don't think that the solution is you got it your way in Arlington. Now I get it my way in Maine. That's too harsh. Instead. I think that you need to investigate window treatment options that will work for both of you. And I don't think you should automatically rule out more expensive options that might have automation.

Now, I've messed around with smart bulbs in my house all the time, bulbs that will dim at certain hours or turn different colors. I'm sorry, Paul F. Tompkins, I know you love them. They've never worked for me. But that doesn't mean that there is no smart home option with regard to blinds that might work for you both. I mean, here's the thing. I am going to split this down the middle a little bit because Kim's concerns are really real. She needs to be as comfortable in the house as you do. But the solution that you came up with in Arlington,

which as I say, is Massachusetts and dead in the past. No changes there. But as you go forward into the future, you need to come up with something that makes you both feel happy and comfortable. And, you know, I think that it's such an important priority And I think that it's such an important priority that while you might have to save up for it over time, you should probably consider investing more money than what you've invested in in Arlington because that's clearly not working for both of you. That's clearly only working for you, Kim. So if I'm splitting the difference, which is a term that I've never really understood, I guess on balance, I'm going to say that I am ruling in Alex's favor in that his need and desire for light in this weekend and summertime retreat should be prioritized in a way that

it hasn't been so far. But that does not mean, Kim, that your sense of comfort and privacy and security should be sacrificed to the no window treatment option. I would suggest next time you're in Kennebunk, open that book, The Main House. I think it's actually the sequel, The Main House 2. Yep. There's some beautiful photos of different homes in Maine,

and a lot of them are in very rural areas where a lot of people don't have window treatments at all. But look at some window treatments in there and see if you can draw any inspiration for how to make you both happy. Because otherwise you're just gonna have to live in separate houses, and I don't want that for you. This is the sound of a gavel. ["The Sound of a Gavel"]

["The Sound of a Gavel"] ["The Sound of a Gavel"] ["The Sound of a Gavel"] ["The Sound of a Gavel"] ["The Sound of a Gavel This is the sound of a gavel. No, no. What happened? He hates bright lights. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Kim, how do you feel right now? I guess I feel pretty good. I know that he values my privacy and how I feel. So I think that's good.

Alex, how are you feeling? I think it's, I've always just looked away from the automated. I actually put in a lot of automated stuff in our house, but I've always just steered clear of the automated blinds because they're so expensive, but I think talking through this, you know, so thoroughly, which we've never really done, it makes sense to reprioritize our budget and things that perhaps we were going to do in the short term. We put that off. We prioritize now maybe investing in something like this because the automated solution would solve the problem. It's a cost thing.

And I think if we just reprioritized our budget, I think it makes sense. Alex and Kim, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We'll have swift justice in just a second. First, our thank you to Reddit Tora Dinosaur1972

for naming this week's episode. You can name episodes on Reddit, Reddit.com slash r slash Maximum Fun. That's where we ask for them. You can also just go check them out. Nice community, positive vibes over there in the Max Fun subreddit. Evidence and photos for the show are on Instagram

at instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. You can also find them on this episode's page at maximumfund.org. You can find us on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod. You know what we got there, John? No, what do we got? Hot content. Hot content, Jesse, and hot comments. John Hodgman pod. You know what we got there, John? No, what do we got?

Hot content. Hot content, Jesse, and hot comments. Thanks for all your comments on our YouTube channel, especially our most recent episode about a man who wears the same cargo shorts every day. One nice comment that came through came from user at tuckamore do who wrote, somehow I often find myself both listening to the audio version and then watching the video as well. And I'm okay with that.

Jesse's delighted reactions in this episode were delightful to see. That's absolutely true. It's always delightful to see Jesse's reactions. And if you are a subscriber to the YouTube channel and you watched this episode on YouTube this week, you also got to see Jesse's very own cargo pants. That's not something you can hear, folks. As much as I love Tuckamore Dew's comment, the YouTube comment of the week, however, must go to at Steve Lit, who wrote, Does anyone remember the old MTV's The State Sketch where

Michael Ian Black goes shopping for his very first pair of pants and it's an unexpectedly joyful and life-affirming experience. Yes, I do remember that skit. I love Michael Ian Black. I love that skit. You can watch that skit on YouTube. And guess what? If you're over there, why don't you go ahead and subscribe to the Judge John Hodgman channel, a Judge John Hodgman pod.

We are just about to hit 6,000 subscribers. And here's my goal, Jesse, about to hit 6,000. By tomorrow, I'd like that to be 6 million. Think we can do it? Perfect goal. It's not merely that I'm pathetically addicted to attention you have to understand. YouTube is one of the ways that a lot of people are listening to podcasts now.

And every time you leave a comment or subscribe or share the videos, that's telling YouTube that more people wanna see this stuff. And that's how it's really helpful for people to discover the show. So thank you very much for doing those things. You remember that one where Michael Ian Black is the Pope and they're spraying everybody with that hose of marinara. I do. And also watch Michael Lee and Black on Roy Wood Jr.

and Amber Ruffins show. Have I got news for you on CNN. It's a delight. I just learned from that show that Mike Lee and Black dropped out of college to be Donatello from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in a touring show of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but he wasn't in the show.

He toured ahead of the show and marched in parades and did morning radio, morning television weather to promote the show. Yeah, they would have people come through dressed as turtles in advance of the big live turtle show. And Michael Ian Black was one of them. It's a really funny story. Go ahead and, yeah.

The best thing I've learned since I learned about Maria Bamford's career as a mall Star Trek character. I didn't even know about that. Yeah, well, you should listen to more bullseye interviews with Maria Bamford. I really should. I should listen to them all. Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman

this episode engineered by Chris Kalafarsky at PRX Podcast Garage in Alston, Massachusetts. Our social media manager, Dan Telfer, the podcast edited by AJ McKee and our video editor, Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now let's get to Swift Justice where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Kadani on the MaxFun subreddit asks, what is the most common slang for a U-turn? I call it pulling a U-B. My husband insists it's pulling a U-B. No amount of arguing or evidence will convince him he is wrong. U-B? Maybe that's a regionalism. I've never heard it before.

It's interesting, a U-B. We say U-B all the time, a U-B.ism. I've never heard it before. It's interesting. A UB. We say UB all the time. A UB. Let me try using it in a sentence. UB incorrect husband. It's UB. That's all it is. You've never heard that.

Look, if you've heard UB for UB, go ahead and write me. I'm sure you will. Hodgman at maximumfund.org. That's also where you send in disputes. You know, our listeners were from Massachusetts. You know who else is from Massachusetts, Jesse? Aside from me. Monte Belmonte obviously.

Boy. Jonathan Richmond. Okay, Jonathan Richmond. I don't know who else is from Massachusetts. Jaws. Jaws, the famous shark. Yeah, the shark from the movie Jaws. Yeah. The fictional Massachusetts island of Amity Island.

Let's let's have a shark week on Judge John Hodgman. Send us in your shark disputes. What is the best shark and why? Why do all boy gendered children's clothes have sharks on them? Does your family need a bigger boat? Have you heard the shark news out of my house? I have not. My 13 year old Gracie announced that she was working on the best idea she'd ever had in

her life. Yeah. Which she has a lot of ideas. So if this is the best one, it's big news. And it was, she went on an e-commerce website and ordered a big bag of blue shark gummies and then a big bag of sour cherry balls. And then she took a wooden spoon and mixed them in a bowl and said that was her clown shark mix

because the sharks represent sharks and then the red cherry balls represent clown. This is a direct quote. Clown noses, you know, honk, honk. Look, I have no dispute with that. That's a great idea. But if you've got a shark related dispute or a painful beach related dispute or a boat or bigger boat related dispute anything to do

tangentially with jaws from the movie jaws from the movie jaws anything at all send it in to maximumfund.org slash jjho there's a handy little form there that will fill it out in two seconds if you must email me you of course may at hodgeman at maximumfund.org. It goes directly to me. And I want to be clear from now on only shark disputes, right Jesse? That's the only thing we want to have on the podcast, correct? Whatever your dispute is, go to maximumfund.org slash JJ HO and send it to us or just email us at hodgeman at maximumfund.org. But you know that form, we get your phone number and stuff in case Jen has to call you back.

Save steps. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO no matter what your dispute is, because our program, John. Yeah. Is a big rig flying down the highway. And your disputes are the diesel fuel powering those pistons. Absolutely. Your disputes are the chum in the water

that get this podcast chomping with its jaws. Yeah. So you get this podcast chomping. Let's get this podcast chomping. We'll talk to you next time on Judge John Hodgman.