Judge John Hodgman - Kayfabeas Corpus Live in Turners Falls MA

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Perry Von Vicious and Delmi Exo are professional wrestlers and good friends. Perry wants to meet Delmi in a singles match just once before he retires. But Delmi refuses to fight! Who's right? Who's wrong? Plus Swift Justice: Should a man be stopped from getting his pilots license? Is it gross to blow your nose in a cloth napkin? And guest Monte Belmonte! Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething.We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman!Thanks to reddit user u/DrColossusOfRhodes for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun!   Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Join at $5 a month at maximumfun.org/join!

It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bale of Jesse Thorne. With me is Judge John Hodgman. This week's episode of our program was recorded at the Shea Theater in Turner's Falls, Massachusetts. What an amazing show we had there in Turner's Falls, Western Massachusetts, one of my many beloved hometowns. Our summertime fun time Bale of Monte Belmonti was, and we had two actual pro wrestlers talk about a dispute instead of taking it to the ring.

Friend of the show, Perry Von Vicious, brought his wrestling best pal, Delmy Exo, to court, and it was a blast. Let's go to the stage at the Shea. People of Turner's Falls, you asked us for live justice and we are here to deliver it. The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session. Let's bring out our litigants. Please welcome to the stage Perry Von Vicious and Delmy Exo.

Tonight's case, K. Fabius Corpus. Perry Von Vicious brings the case against his friend Delmy Exo. They're both professional wrestlers here in New England, a place that I have never heard of. In fact, Perry used to be Delmy's trainer, but now he says the student has become the master. He wants to meet Delmy in the ring just once before he retires. But Delmy refuses to fight. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom

and delivers an obscure cultural reference. In the middle of nowhere, the thunderous roar of the sacred ocelot was heard. The Jaguar God cried out to the heavens for the presence of the one who would adorn civilization with glory. The tail of a comet illuminated the horizons while the high priest looked into the infinite. It foretold the arrival of a fierce, noble, brave podcast judge with an enormous spirit

and an indomitable heart. The depths of the universe opened like infinite windows. The mask covering his face was surrounded by flashing halos that obscured all darkness and Judge John Hodgman emerged into podcasting on November 8 2010 14 years ago today. Bailiff Jesse Thorne please swear them in. Perry and Delmy, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever?

I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he is the international undisputed title holder in not wrestling. I do. I do because I know I'm gonna win. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Perry and Delby, you may be seated. Before I allow you to guess, I just want to say that speaking in that fashion caused me to get a cramp in my ribs that I'm dealing with right now. Yeah, you win in. I'm winning a little hard. I'm winning a little hard. OK. Well, for an immediate summary judgment,

one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom, Perry? Why don't you guess first? It sounded like a Judge Hodgman-specific version of the intro to the Japanese anime Kanekuman? A Judge Hodgeman specific version of the Japanese anime Kanekuman. I don't know that anime, but it's a good guess as far as I'm concerned.

It's about pro wrestling. Oh, okay. That makes sense. On topic, very good. Boy, my rib hurts. Delmie, what is your... Wait, is that the one that muscles come from? Yes.

Millions of unusual small creatures lurking everywhere? Yes. Oh, those little pink guys. Oh, man. Yeah, you know what? I'm going to lie down for a little bit while you guys talk about that. Delmie, what's your guess?

I'm going to guess Shrek 2. Shrek 2. Also a good guess. It wouldn't be Shrek 1, that's too obvious. Yeah, no, right, exactly. Well, all guesses are wrong. I didn't change a few words to incorporate me, Judge John Hodgman, when in fact that quote

is from the bio page on the website www.garreromaya.com, the official website of the Mexican mass wrestler El Guerrero Maya Jr.com, the official website of the Mexican master wrestler ElGarreroMaya Jr. Also known as Samba, also known as Multifacetetico. Sorry, Multifacetetico. You know ElGarreroMaya, don't you? I know him indirectly. So years ago I went to Mexico City and my friend, the professional wrestler Colt Cabana,

sent me a text message and he said, Jesse, you're going to Mexico City, you gotta go to the lucha, are you going to the lucha, which is the Mexican wrestling. And I said, I guess I wasn't really planning to, I was gonna go to like the archeological museum, Colt. And he said, look, I wrestle with some guys that wrestle in the big arena in Mexico City, I'm gonna send a

couple messages, I'm gonna get you some tickets and I ended up corresponding on Twitter with El Guerrero Maya and my Spanish is very poor and he had no English so we were like translating but Google translating back and forth on Twitter DMs and it turned out he was gonna be out of town the weekend that I was there but he said but I live right near your hotel I'll bring tickets by I'll drop them off for you I was like you don't have to weekend that I was there, but he said, but I live right near your hotel, I'll bring tickets by, I'll drop them off for you. I was like, you don't have to do that, I'll get out of my, and he's like, I'd love to, it's no problem. So we got to our hotel and it was like a little, like a five room hotel with just one like innkeeper. And she's explaining to us all the different parts of the hotel, you know, where to do everything.

And then she says, oh, she's speaking to us in English. She says, oh, I forgot. And then she says, a man left you this. And then she goes, she goes, he say his name is El Guerrero Maya, but he's just a man. A brush with wrestling greatness. As we are having right now here on stage, Perry Von Vicious, you have been featured on the show before. You are a professional wrestler.

Perry Von Vicious is your wrestling name. That's right. You are also known as the human monster truck yes and you're also known you're also known as a weird wrestling name you're also known as former second grade teacher yes I was a second grade teacher in Oakland California and when did your students find out that you were a wrestler they found out probably halfway through the year but I didn't found out I didn't find out that you were a wrestler? They found out probably halfway through the year, but I didn't find out that they found out until like the last week of school when one of the parents stooged out that they all watched me on YouTube.

You must have been the most popular teacher in school at that point. I mean, it was unbeknownst to me, but apparently, yeah. Delmie, tell me about your journey into wrestling. My journey into wrestling? Well, I was probably like four, three years into wrestling before I finally crossed paths with Perry. And I'm here in Western Massachusetts? Here in Western Massachusetts.

OK. I'm from the New England area. I grew up in Rhode Island, and now I currently live in East Hampton. OK, cool. I believe that's the wrestling epicenter of Western Massachusetts. Oh yeah. And actually at the point that I met Perry, I was really ready to hang up my boots. And then what happened? What changed? His positivity and his friendship and really seeing something in me that I didn't see in myself.

Is it true that he was, he trained you? You did some training with him? Yeah, he kind of brought me back up from the ground. Uh, well I'm glad to hear that. I mean like physically lifted you off over his head and spun you around? No, yeah, like he dropped me down with a body slam and then helped me back up. Ah, got it, exactly right. And now you're wearing the t-shirt, you run this wrestling promotion, correct? Called the, what is it, Pro Wrestling Grind? Pro Wrestling Grind out in East Hampton. I run this with my partner, Rip Bison.

And what is a wrestling promotion and what does Pro Wrestling Grind? Do you, Rip Bison, take? Almost. What is, I mean, for those who don't know, including me, what is Pro Wrestling Grind all about and what is a promotion? Pro Wrestling Grind is about really pushing through and finding that perseverance in yourself to get to that next level.

You might not have the biggest opportunity or the biggest stage every weekend, but when you're at Grind, it feels like that. The crowd is just so involved and they're so there for you and watching you like fulfill your dreams in front of them. And you have events how often? We run about once a month. Once a month. And East Hampton and then, but Perry, you travel around, you both travel around New England quite a bit and you've been wrestling in Japan recently Correct. Yeah, actually Delmy also has wrestled in Japan in Germany as well. Yeah, we

Wrestle everywhere. It sounds like your career couldn't be going better for a former second grade teacher Who is now a professional wrestler on the international stage and yet it says here that you're considering retiring. I I turned 40 back in July. But you're a young man. I didn't really necessarily picture myself wrestling well into my 40s. And are you starting to slow down physically? You're kind of a weakling, right?

Actually, I'm probably in the best shape I've ever been in. And according to Delmy and Rip and a lot of my closest friends in wrestling, I'm probably having the best matches I've ever had. And so when are you thinking of retiring then and what time frame? Honestly, I've kind of passed the time frame I talked about. I'd sort of said forever that like unless I was signed to a major company, I would be done at 40. Right, and that's never going to happen. It's time for you to give up your dream. All dreams must stop.

The pursuit of happiness ends at 40. You're absolutely right. Time to get serious. I mean, there's a child in the audience who needs to hear this. Your dreams die the moment you turn 40. Oftentimes, they die at 25. -"Tik-Tok."

-"Yeah, that's right." A lot of times, you're, like, 35 years old. You're on the top of the blogging world. People from Discovery call you into their office. And when you turn down their show the head of Discovery Networks takes you out to sushi which you don't even like to try and convince you to take the pilot. What you don't know is that you'll be bald almost immediately thereafter. These are the

exact kinds of things that happen as you grow up, Eli. Get ready. Now that you are planning the end of your career as a professional wrestler, Perry, you have a list of things that you would like to do. A bucket list, a wrestling bucket list. Yeah, that's right. What are some of the things on the list? I mean, I'd like to do something on national TV in the States. No, it's not gonna happen.

Fair enough. You mean like be on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire or? I'm not sure how I make it happen, but I'd like to meet weird Al Yankovic. I could make that happen. I've been to his house. Yeah. He's a nice guy. Yeah, he's really nice. It's a nice house. I'm telling you, you gotta throw away your TV dreams. It's all podcasting. And uh, you want to meet Weird Al, you start a podcast. I'll get on it.

Don't give him ideas. As soon as I can get turned down by Discovery. Yeah, don't worry. It's already happened. I'll tell you this, the secret to podcasting success is that your last TV credit is Christmas Through the Decades on the History Channel. OK, national television appearance as a wrestler, I think it can happen. One, meet Weird Al. It's definitely going to happen.

You and I are going to drive across the country. We're going to make a documentary film about it's definitely gonna happen. You and I are gonna drive across the country, we're gonna make a documentary film about it. I'm in. All right, what else? And then, so it's kind of like, it's an important thing in pro wrestling. It's almost like a rite of passage. You wrestle all of your friends in a one-on-one match.

It always happens. Oh, I thought it was all at once. No, not, sorry. That, I would put that on national television right now. That's called a polycube. A polycule. And I've wrestled all of my closest friends, and they really do become your closest friends because you spend hundreds of hours in cars with these people.

Delmie and I have definitely spent hundreds of hours in cars together. And not killed each other. Not yet. You're gonna be on my new web series, hundreds of hours of cars, hundreds of hours in cars with wrestlers. Wrestlers in cars getting nowhere? Yeah, that's true.

No, no, you're getting somewhere. We're gonna go see Weird Al. Don't worry about it. It's gonna happen. So I have wrestled all of my closest friends in singles matches, some of them many times. In fact, Delmi's fiance, Rip Bison, is one of my closest friends in wrestling. We've probably had 30 plus singles matches against each other.

We've wrestled in every time zone. And yet you've never wrestled Delmi. No. And why won't you wrestle your former trainer and your pal? We mentioned the bucket list, you know? If I wrestle him, that just brings him closer to retiring. Mmm. And I don't want to see him go.

Do you think it's too early for him to retire? It's way too early. We could hold out like 10 years easily. Ten more years. Ten more years. 10 more years. And your feeling is that if you were to let him check off that part of his bucket list, which is wrestling the one person that he hasn't wrestled, then that just will usher him into his wrestling grave faster. Yes. Right.

And you don't want that to happen. No. And you also, do you have a concern about any signature move that Perry has? I'm not scared. No, no. Trust me, I'm not going to tell any professional wrestler that they're scared. But why are you holding out your pinky at me?

You got a pinky promise that you won't... Oh, I thought you were going to disembowel me with that. I promise. I'm promise. I'm not suggesting that. But there is a signature move that Perry... There is a high-risk move that Perry Von Vicious does. It's called the Perry-go-round. Look, you don't have to describe it because I believe that we have video. Can we see the Perry go round, please? Now here's a fun fact.

About two years ago, we did a holiday show here at the Shea. Perry, you were a guest. And you didn't do the Perry go round on me, but you did lift me up over your head. Yes, I did. He was about to. And it was... What's that? He was about to.

He was about to do the Perry go round as well? Maybe so, I don't know. But you did lift me up over your head safely, and it was terrifying. And that looks worse. Another fun fact, I also have underwear that says Vicious on it. Not licensed merch, I'm sorry. I got it on the black market.

You ought to sell those on your YouTube page or whatever. I actually have to get mine from Delmi. She makes those for me. Oh, cool. That's very cool. So if you were to fight Delmi, would you Perry go round her? I don't know how else to put it. I mean, if I wanted to win, yeah.

Now look, wrestling of the kind that you do, you call it wrestling. Not Olympic-style wrestling where they're just on the ground the whole time and it's like, brr. Like, this is an extremely physical show that you're putting on. In other words, that other wrestler, who was the other wrestler in that video? His name is Jake Ripper Reed. Sure, Jake Ripper Reed. It was right on the tip of my tongue. Jake Ripper Reed knows that that's gonna happen to him. You have worked this out. I mean I'm sorry to pull back the curtain but I just want to understand

that when you're talking about getting into having a wrestling match with Delmey it's not like just an alien just whale on each other. It's going to be a proper wrestling match with, I don't want to say... You can say. The nine-year-old's watching. I'm about to destroy a dream. dream with advanced planning, choreography, safety measures, and dare I say a little bit of showpersonship.

Please don't... We like to say smoke and mirrors. I just wanna make sure that that's what you're proposing happen in this case, right? It's not... Yeah, that's right. Right. It's not getting all of your friends together to beat the shit out of you in the alley next to the Shea Theater, because that's how I want to put you on television. You see it? I'll take a mortgage out on our apartment. I'll set it up. But okay,

you're talking about a real thing. Okay. Does it intimidate you, the Perry go round? Would I agree to take the Perry go round? No. Okay. But you're not even going to agree to do anything. That's not the reason you don't want to fight. No, that's just one more piece of evidence as to agree to do anything. That's not the reason you don't wanna fight. No, that's just one more piece of evidence as to why I would not, I wouldn't. Would you? No.

Got it. You wanna keep your friend, Perry Von Vicious, in the game. And my neck. Sure, both of those things. But would you say that your primary motivation is to keep Perry wrestling, even beyond what he wants to do? Yeah, he's got to stay.

Why do you want, why is it important to you? So Perry's holding out. Perry has this rule that once he's done with wrestling, he's like deleting all his social media and no one's ever going to hear from him. Only few people have his actual phone number, me being one of them, but he says- Do I, Perry, do I have your phone number? Yeah. Okay, good. Me being one of them, but he says Perry do I have your phone number? Yeah, okay good Work years for that

Yeah, but yeah, but you weren't on dick town That reminds me John I wasn't on dick town we'll do another season okay, he just doesn't want me to get out of the game. He knows about my bucket list. Yeah. You're gonna delete everything? You're gonna erase your wrestling? He's just gonna vanish. And is he gonna vanish from your life? That's what he claimed.

Are you gonna vanish from your friend's lives when you give up wrestling? So, everyone I've ever known in wrestling, no matter how close of a friend they've been, when they leave wrestling, it's kind of the last you hear from them. Like alcoholism? It is an addiction of sorts.

Like my trainer, Johnny Idol, was one of my closest friends in the entire world. And when he retired, I think since then we text maybe twice a year. Right. And so you're looking forward to this? No, I've just accepted it. I mean, let me ask you this question, Perry. Like, when I was texting with el guerrero Maya when when

John looked up el guerrero Maya earlier today in the car that we've driven hundreds of miles together and that's right by the way I have killed him that's his good good ghost but when John was looking up I felt victim to the Jesse go round yeah he's he said to me he said to me is it El Guerrero Maya. I fell victim to the Jesse Gorone. Yeah, he said to me, is it El Guerrero Maya Jr. or El Guerrero Maya Senior? And I was reminded that when I went to the lucha in Mexico City, there are multi-generational families taking place in those matches, including hater-familiases that are like at least 70 and they just kind of go around and yell different stuff and point different places and wear a singlet which is an intense experience to see up close but why why if you give up wrestling why if

you give up the like action of wrestling the danger of wrestling, why if you give up the action of wrestling, the danger of wrestling, why can't you be one of those guys that yells and points at stuff? Yeah, didn't you hear that person? Yeah. That's a perfect example of yelling. Yeah.

They probably point at you, I can't see them. I've known a couple people who, when they were done, kinda hang around the scene for a long time, but they're not. They're real cool, right? It's a little bit like hanging around your high school after you graduate. Sure. It's like, what's his name? Matthew Conahay.

Matthew Conahay and Dacey Confuse. Or it's like when Jesse Thorne graduated from college and kept doing his college radio show for three years. Yeah. And then left that station and did it for 20 more years. How long are you going to continue wrestling for, Dami, do you have an idea? Oh, like I'm just going to be there.

That's it. No matter what. No matter what. What's on your vision board for your wrestling career? We're dial yankovic obviously that's gonna happen Christmas through the decades. I just want to keep going It's just I have so much fun doing it. It's something that I've had great success in so you know like Honestly, if I go further with what I've had, you know, that's great Honestly, if I go further with what I've had, you know, that's great. But where I'm at right now and like the opportunities that I'm able to give to other people with

pro wrestling grind is like, I'm just so content with that. Right. And if Perry were to say to you like, hey, look, I'm not going to disappear from your life if I retire. I will stay friends with you and rip bison. I won't hang around the ring in my singlet looking weird, but I will maintain a presence in your world. Would you then be willing to fight him and defeat him as he deserves to send him out of wrestling forever?

I don't believe him. You don't believe him? No. You want out believe him? No. You want out of this life, Barry? I mean, look at what it's given you. You're gonna meet weird Al Yankovic. You think I hooked that up for non-wrestlers? Barry, take it from me, an expert.

If you get booked on Christmas through the decades, you're gonna meet Mr. Belding. I went to UMass. I met Mr. Belding. Oh wow. He popped through a lot. But you're ready to put this life behind you? Why? I mean, honestly, I think Dilley's a little bit overreacting here because I'm not really ready to put it behind me. Like I don't have, currently I don't have a timeframe to be done. Like I think I'm still adding a lot. The rule I've kind of set for myself is,

as long as I'm a net positive to the shows that I'm on, I will keep doing it. But as soon as I see someone younger and better than me, not booked on a show that I'm on, I need to be on. You don't want to be taking up that space for the new young talent that's coming up. Okay. So if I were to rule that you were to have a wrestling match with Delmie, what do you have in mind? Where is it going to happen? What's it going to look like?

I mean, to my mind, there's only one place it can happen, and it's got to be pro wrestling. The stage of the Shea Theater, what? I understand that we're not actually allowed to do that. No, I did look into it. There were insurance issues, very literally. Let me, yeah. Yeah, so short of settling it right here, right now, the most wrestling way to settle a thing, where would it happen?

It would happen in East Hampton at the Pulaski Club for pro wrestling grind. Alright. And when would it happen? So grind likes to run on Fridays or Saturdays. It kind of depends on availability of the venue. My birthday is on a Friday this coming year in July, and I think it would be a cool birthday present

to get to wrestle my friend. Friday, Friday, Friday, July 2025, Delmi versus Vicious, the title bout. It's going to happen, or is it? Now, he called you out. You can just tell him no. Or we could sign on Perry to wrestle for 10 more years. 10 more years?

If you, if Perry signs a binding contract to wrestle for another 10 years, would you wrestle him on his birthday in July, yes or no? Yeah. Oh. How do you respond to that, Perry? I don't know that my body, my marriage, or my hairline could make it another ten years. Honestly, wrestlers are doing extraordinary things with hairlines these days. Well it sounds like a lot. It sounds like a very interesting proposal. I think I've heard enough in order to make my decision. I am going to go into my chambers, consider

my verdict, I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Delmie, how do you feel about your chances right now? I see you crossing your fingers. Oh yeah, you know, just doing all the little rituals I used to do as a Pats fan. Uninflating the ball. That definitely, by the way, is the worst thing I could have said about Tom Brady. Perry, how are you feeling about your chances? I mean, I have a lot of flexibility in what I'm willing to accept as a verdict, so I feel pretty good that I'll be comfortable no matter what the

judge rules. How much flexibility do you have in general? You're pretty yoked is why I mentioned it. Not as much as I had a few years ago, but more than you'd think. Okay. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this in just a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. I'm very disappointed that I cannot have you wrestle on stage.

It truly is. I mean, two real violations of Chekhov's principle, right? They're not wrestling on stage, and my pants aren't falling down. Everyone here is leaving very, very disappointed, I'm afraid. But the only way to really solve this, honestly, is some form of trial by combat. So we're going to play a little game. There are a lot of wrestlers in this world. Professional, national, professional, worldwide, the various... There are a lot of wrestlers, that's what I'm saying.

I don't know what the divisions are. You two are gonna take turns naming famous wrestlers until one of you can't think of one. How much time do you have? Let's go. You have to go fast. Kenji Kabashi. Cole Cabana.

CM Punk. Kekutaro. Kelly Kelly. El Santo. Trish Stratus. Blue Demon. Lita. John Cena. Ivalice.

Shawn Michaels. Bret Hart. Triple H. You took Triple H? If you repeat, even by accident, you lose. I just did. You did? Yeah, I did. I just did. You did? Yeah, I did.

I missed it. Oh no! Which one did you say, Triple H? He took Triple H and that's my favorite wrestler and he knew that, so then I... You said it out of instinct. Tell me, you gotta play if you wanna win. You gotta get in his head.

Wrestling isn't just the peri-go-round, it's also mental combat. Think of a wrestler. El Guerrero Maya Jr. and Senior. We don't know about them. El Mysterio. El Mysterio, okay. Uh, uh, uh, uh. Owen Hart.

Eddie Guerrero. Bruce Hart. Macho Man. Macho Man. Randy Macho Man Savage. Stu Hart. Eddie Guerrero. Bruce Hart. Macho Man. I'll never remember. Macho Man. Randy Macho Man Savage. Stu Hart.

Ricky Steamboat. Ric Flair. Dusty Rhodes. Dustin Rhodes. Wait a minute, that seems like a technicality. It's his son. Okay. Rick Martel.

Cody Rhodes. Stop taking my favorite rapper. Okay, gavel's about to come down. You gotta name one. Becky Lynch. Greg the Hammer Valentine. Sasha Banks. Ah! Ah!

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Oh, actually, you won. Rats. But you know what? I don't care. You're gonna fight. You're gonna fight. You're gonna fight. You're gonna wrestle, I mean to say.

On his birthday, birthday gift. Five-year contract. Five. Okay, four. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Four years. Perry, Delmie, thanks for joining us. Let me tell you, hang on.

Let me tell you why. Because we all have to fight for four more years. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Perry, Delmie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It's time for Swift Justice. Please welcome to the stage Andy and Mark. Andy wants to get a private pilot's license, but his friend Mark says that flying is too dangerous. He loves Andy very much and doesn't want him to die in a crash. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Whoo! Good. Andy, Mark, welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman. Before we get started, we do have, as I mentioned, a very special guest here. There is someone that you know very dear to my heart and the entire communities. He's sometimes known as our summertime fun time guest bailiff, but right now he's our winter of discontent guest bailiff. Please welcome to the stage, Monte Belmonti. Monte, thank you. Will you sit in on Swift Justice and lend some expertise? I would love to. I appreciate that. Thank you for being here

and we'll chat with you in a little bit. But let's go ahead, Justice will not wait, Andy and Mark. Who's Andy? I'm Andy. Andy and before we hear the case may I license your life rights immediately? For those of you who are listening at home Andy is wearing a incredible members only jacket it looks like to me. Thank you for the recognition. In Whaler's green he is wearing a Hartford Whaler's hat. Yes. He has a handlebar mustache he's a very fit gentleman and I would like to option your life right and he's disrobing to represent Yale University the heart of

the secret world government in my alma mater and your mark I am mark okay nevermind I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision well no I'll hold the gavel but I do want to assign your life right so that I And you're mark. I am mark. Okay. Never mind. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision Well, no, I'll hold the gavel But I do want to assign your life rights that I can write a new TV show about a guy named Dan crowbar hockey detective Looks like a night. It's like a look like Tom Tom Tom Selig run through a Zamboni. It's incredible over here mark You look pretty good, too. Thank you. Yeah, thank you mark Who seeks justice in this court? I seek justice, Your Honor.

Andy, what is the nature of the justice you seek? I would like to get my pilot's license. I'm frankly surprised you don't already have it. Frankly, I'm surprised that you want a pilot's license and not an autogyro license. Or a whirly bird license. There's only one person standing in the way of me having the license so far, and it is my friend Mark. And you guys are friends, Mark.

We are friends. And he has a lot of hobbies, Mark. My concern and the reason that I've stood in his way is that he's a bit of a serial hobbyist. And so my concern is that while he thinks he wants to learn how to fly the plane, it's more that he wants to be the kind of person who also flies planes. What about the incredible affected presentation that Andy presents suggests to you? You know, you see his handlebar mustache. What you don't see is that in the past 10 years, he's also taken up birding, curling.

Yes. He's the vice president of the Nutmeg Curling Society. He became a- Wait, is he also in the Rushmore Kite Flying Society? He also became a mason. A freemason or with bricks? No comment. Appropriate question.

Yeah, not allowed to say. Hence the Yale shirt. Yeah. And, you know, this is on top of his interest in mustache culture. I mean, his hobbies know no end. There's a lot of what they call Venn between your interests and mine, Andy. A lot of overlap, and I'm beginning to wonder... My interests and yours, your honor?

If you are perhaps not a real person, but instead a five-hour energy drink hallucination that I'm having right now. Is this real life? Monte Belmonte, is this real life? Let me pinch you. Oh, okay. Okay, thanks. Will you pull up my pants in the meantime while you're at it? No, no, no, please don't. Are you suggesting this is a Hodgman after dentist situation?

I suspect it might be. Andy, why do you want to fly an aeroplane? Your honor, and not become a zeppelin-ear. Your honor, Bailiff Jesse, Guest Bailiff, Monte Belmonte, are you gonna marry somebody? I just might. Handsome people of... Wow. Wow.

Chez Theatre. I'm just a simple caveman. I'm just a simple townie from New Haven. I'm not a sophisticated Yale man like my opponent here, who has two degrees from Yale. I just want to be free, and I believe in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't think that Mark should be able to stand in my way of happiness. Don't interrupt me, sir and What we're about to see is the silver tongue of a Professional debater John if you want I can come back in an hour

There's still pizza downstairs, right? Yeah. Okay. let's all go down. No, go on, Andy. The impossible full head of hair, age-defying on my friend here, Mark. And all I'm asking for is the freedom to pursue a hobby that we all want, to be able to fly like a bird, the birds that I seek out there in the field. I just want to, I just want to fly.

It's just that you watch. It's just that the cost. Can I interrupt? I'll allow it. Thank you. It's just, it's just that the cost of him failing at curling, there's no cost to him failing at curling. Sure.

But the cost of being bad at flying is really, you know, is death. I'm so happy to be trucked. And I just think that he, it's a hobby too far. How old are you Andy if I may ask? I'm 50. Well you've had a great life. Ha ha ha. Your honor.

Yes. The, I'm so glad that Mark brought up the risks of flying because I've done a little math as you may have expected. I'm a prepared person. Thank you. I do appreciate that. May I refer to my notes? Please reach into your members only front pocket. Yeah, I do that. The likelihood of me dying in a plane crash in the first year,

if I were to take one year of lessons, one hour. Is the answer inside that envelope did yeah did you have price waterhouse Cooper's keep the answer secret for you okay it's the answer likelihood of me living through the year is 99.99 percent this is literally back of the envelope math. That was deduced through binomial distribution. I'm sure there's someone in this audience who understands what that is. Binomial nerds.

Thank you. Of course. So, if I were to say to anyone in this audience, are you prepared to accept the risk of surviving a 99.99% likelihood? Would you accept that risk for the next year? I think he'd be a fool to not take that risk. May I see the envelope? Of course. Well, he's done the work. This is a picture of a bird with a mustache.

There's an affidavit inside? There is. As I open the affidavit, let me give Mark a moment to speak if you don't mind, Andy. Please. What standing do you have to deny Andy his right to pursue his desire to fly? Look, I'm the friend who has stuck around through all this. How long have you been friends?

We've been friends 20 years, 17, 18 years now. And being the friend of someone who's, he recently bought, This is true. He recently roped about his last six friends and our spouses into an all-day curling session at his club because he wants to recruit us to the curling community. Like, there's a heavy lift to be friends with Andy, which is you indulge the hobbies,

and he's a great guy, but I just don't want to be going up in the little putt-putt plane with him. Well, you don't have to. I don't, I don't. You're not forcing him into the plane, are you? I don't even want him to.

No, exactly. It's just that it always tends that way. Mark, I appreciate your concern for your friend. Thank you. It's clear that you care about Andy very much. I do. And you want him to live, mostly because he's exciting to have in your life. Everyone should have a guy like this in your life.

I understand. I know. I've definitely had exciting friends in my life who I wished them to live. Right. Even though their recreational risk taking makes my life more exciting as it obviously makes your life more exciting. Exactly. The fact is Andy is his own person I have a very dear friend we're working on a project that involves

hang gliding and he decided to go hang gliding had never hang glided before that's the past tense of hang gliding he never hang glid and he had never hung gliding but let me it was none of my business, and that gentleman, David Reese, he surely did hung glad. He had a great time. Far more dangerous than flying a plane. Monty, do you have anything you want to add to this, Jesse? Are you, Andy, by any chance a singer-songwriter?

I'm not yet. Because I think the odds on your envelope would be much different if you were. I mean I think of John Denver and Jim Croce, Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, Patsy Cline, Otis Redding. Oh boy, oh boy, talk about crashing and burning. Really bring us down to earth, Monty. I love what you did there, John Hodgman. Ah, I tell you what. I order Andy to soar. Of course you must.

Of course you must learn to fly. Thank you, Andy and Mark. Sorry, Mark. Congratulations, Andy. Judge John Hodgman, we are taking a quick break from the stage And I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that.

I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that.

I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and say that. I'm going to go ahead and my verdict. I ruled in Perry's favor.

Delmiexo must wrestle against Perry Von Vicious in a singles match. Finally put this grudge aside and guess what? Klaxon, Klaxon, Klaxon. That match is coming July 19th, 19th at the Pulaski Club in East Hampton, Massachusetts. It's the Pro Wrestling Grind Championship Main Event, event, event, current champion, the human monster truck, Perry Von Vicious versus the God Queen, Queen Delmie Exo. Perry won the case in my court,

but will he win this wrestling match? Find out only one way. Get your tickets at grindpuro.eventbrite.com. That's G-R-I-N-D-P-U-R-O.eventbrite.com. That's G-R-I-N-D-P-U-R-O.eventbrite.com. I'll repeat that URL at the end of this episode. Do not miss this incredible matchup. Also do not miss the second season of E! Pluribus Motto, dropping July 8th. E! Pluribus Motto is my and Janet Varney's super fun podcast about state mottos and

not just state mottos, but also state slogans, state mammals, state monsters, state beverages, state snacks, is a whole bunch of wild and weird trivia. And Janet and I having a good time with you. I hope the listener make sure to go check us out wherever you get your podcast. It's called E Pluribus motto at maximum fun.org wherever you get your podcast. It all drops July 8th. Jesse Thorne, what's going on with you? Jesse Thorne Well, I happened to be out at the flea market this past weekend. And I didn't see a couple pals of mine. Their names are Jesus and Maria.

A long time flea market friends. I got all these flea market friends. You know, you go to the flea market every week. You have flea market friends. My friends, my couple pals of mine, their names are Jesus and Maria, a long time flea market friends. I got all these flea market friends. You know, you go to the flea market every week, you have flea market friends. FMFs. So my pals Jesus and Maria weren't out there selling and I had, I don't, I mean, I don't know that I've ever seen them miss one. And I was talking to their flea market neighbors, my friends, Matthew and his mother Maria.

And they mentioned to me that Jesus and Maria weren't there because the previous week, a swap meet in Los Angeles had gotten raided by ICE. Now my, my pals were not detained in that raid, um, but they also didn't feel like they could go to work safely. And that kind of thing is going on across Southern California. And indeed at this point across the country, you know, ICE is trying to arrest 3000 people a day. And the only way they can do that, especially now that they have, that the president arbitrarily exempted the workplaces of people who work for not enough money for his squigillionaire friends in a few industries,

is to hit people in the places in my community and our communities that should be sacrosanct, not just people's workplaces, but schools and churches and hospitals, courthouses, things like that. So I was feeling down about it. And then I remembered how awesome Judge John Hodgeman listeners are. And our fundraiser for Al Otro Lado remains open. It is at alotrolado.org slash let's do something.

We have raised at this point, a total of over $275,000. That's over $200,000 in small and mid-size contributions. My wife and I gave 25 and we had two matching grants of 25. So we have raised almost $300,000 and I would love to get it up to $300,000. So go to alotrolato.org slash let's do something. Alotrolato do among other things, legal trainings for people who are in detention and people at the border. Like one of the things that they have tried to do

in the current administration is what little legal training, people who were seeking refugee status, what little education about the laws, both international and American immigration laws, that people were getting, the funding has been zeroed out for in the government. So people generally do not get an attorney. Some people are able to get an attorney for themselves, but often even if they have an

attorney, the system attempts to separate them from their attorney and not even tell their attorney where they are, much less their families. So, Alos Rolado provides that training. Now they need our support to be able to give that training because it is no longer as it was in a previous administration funded by the government. And it just informs people who are seeking refugee status of their basic rights. Um, and you know, I won't speculate as to why the government wouldn't want people to be informed of their basic rights.

Uh, but it's not cause they're respecting them. So, uh, otrolado.org slash let's do something is where you can go and give some money. Yeah. And that money will have a direct impact on people who are in a really brutal spot right now. It's an easy time to feel very, very helpless and scared. And one way that you can actually provide direct help and maybe even feel a little less scared and paralyzed is to support Al Otrolado.

You've been incredibly generous in the past and if you're able to be generous again, please join us in supporting this really, really important mission. What's that website again, Jesse? That's alotrolado.org slash let's do something. Now let's do something. Now let's get back to the Shea Theater.

Monty Bell Monty is here. In case you didn't notice. So nice to see you, Monty. I've missed you. So nice to see you. And Monty, one of the things you're well known for when you join us on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast are your introductions full of ruinously corny puns? Yes.

Jesse Thorne, are you a fan of punnery? Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I love it especially. I think I've created so many puns over the years that Jesse Thorne doesn't like me in real life. No. Well, as we're coming up on.

He's a very, he's doing a lot for charity. He does a lot of work in the community. I am the president of the board of this theater. That's true. That's true. And I get paid zero dollars for it. You truly are the center of town, and we're very happy to be here. Since you are here and Swift Justice continues, perhaps you might take a turn introducing

the next set of litigants in your own inimitable Belmonte manner. Don't mind if I do, Judge John Hodgman. Let's welcome to the stage, Breanne and Chris. Brianne and her husband Chris use cloth napkins at home. At the end of dinner, Chris uses his napkin to blow his nose. The mob justice is later. Brianne says, this is disgusting. Chris says, Chris says, it's snot. He does not think it's a tissue.

He says it's a nasal digestif and that Brianne moist a towelette. I don't even know what that, I don't even get that one. Must allow itne moist a towelette. I don't even know what that... I don't even get that one. Must allow it, moist a towelette. Oh, okay, moist a towelette. Got it, got it, got it. Who's right? Who's gesundheit?

Only one knows. Only one can serviette justice. Only one can... Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, Only one can serviette justice.

Only one can ah, ah, ah, choose. Please rise, and while you're at it, put a little boogie in it, as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Wow. Brianne and Chris, welcome to the court. Who seeks justice in this court? I do, your honor. Brianne, it's your husband.

Husband, is that correct? That's correct. Chris, who blows his nose in the cloth napkins. He does. Can I add, he often does this while making direct eye contact with me as well. That's pretty hot, actually. Works every time. Yeah, very provocative. That's pretty hot actually. Yeah. Works every time.

Yeah, very provocative. How often does this happen that Chris is gunking up your napkins with his snot? Yeah, so it happens pretty much anytime we eat dinner at the dinner table, which doesn't happen that often. Yeah, it's not often that we're together. So when you are sitting and watching television or what have you, he's blowing his nose into the throw pillows We don't bring out the cloth napkins for the couch dinner

It's more of a kind of we're eating dinner together the dining room table It's a nice thing and then it ends with just letting it rip and is when you are having these formal comparatively formal dinners And is it when you are having these formal comparatively formal dinners Are there other people invited like your boss your in-laws whatever it is or is it just the two of you? It's generally just the two of us. I have asked him if he would do this Were anyone else there and I've never seen him do it, but he insists he would he thinks there's nothing wrong with it But mostly you save this behavior just for your beloved wife, is that right? That's correct, your honor. And why do you do this?

You say you call it a cleansing blow. Yes. So I'm sure like many in the audience here, I work a stressful job and I come home weary and- What is your job? Phlegmatic. I'm an ICU doctor. Okay.

I thought you were going to say auto gyro pilot. That's pretty stressful. Okay. And that causes some phlegm to back up. Yeah. Not as stressful to be fair as public radio hosts. Totally. Budget cuts, fun drives.

So, you know, sometimes I work late and we don't always get to eat together. But, you know, at the end of a long day, dinner, I don't know, it seems to provoke a certain amount of nasal congestion and it's just such a relief at the end of a satisfying meal. I would add, I think there's a mismatch in disgust tolerance

given Chris's job. I think he has a pretty high... And given Chris's shirt. I'm sorry, Chris. I like his shirt. That one's just for us. I'm not going to explain that to the listening audience. It's certainly very jaunty and wacky.

Northampton Goodwill. Nice poll. I like it. So please say again, your disgust tolerance is different. Yes, my disgust tolerance is significantly lower than his, and I think that's coming into play. So you're saying that you occasionally get disgusted by things that are disgusting. That's correct and I would the flip side is that I think he does not get disgusted by things that are disgusting.

Well he's an ICU doc I mean I think there's probably some distress tolerance built into your job at this point. Oh yeah yeah. There's snot all over the place. I think at this point you should possibly be happy that he doesn't disembowel himself after dinner. Is this something you've done your whole life? Chris, did you grow up doing this? Probably. But honestly, I think maybe my family is weird enough that maybe we all do it if we sat down at a dinner table.

But I've never paid attention. But maybe Brianne, coming from a more normal family, calls out this behavior. I think it started happening when we got the cloth napkins. They're so soft on the face. Laughter It's the only comfort he gets. Do you have anything else to blow your nose on in your home?

Well, there's a tablecloth, surely. Yeah. There's that shirt. Yeah. Oh, and there's Brianne's shirt too, probably. He could go around the table. It's happened before. There's the dog.

Have you ever owned a handkerchief? I never have owned a handkerchief. Really? You know the holidays are coming up, Brianne. I have an idea for a stocking stuffer. Well, is there any defense that you wanna offer? Because... I, you know, so what...

Aside from I have done this already? The process is, I mean, it is, you know, people, I would say, people do a kind of some other gross stuff into table napkins. If you get a particularly grizzly piece of meat or a fish bone, you're gonna spit it into your napkin, right? No.

No. No. No. No. Again, the audience participation is later in the show. But I appreciate the, essentially, the catching the tenor of this crowd with regard to this.

And I'm going to say something, Chris. With regard to a piece of gristly meat or a fish bone or whatever, you're absolutely right. Sorry. You absolutely would dispose that politely in your napkin and try to, because what you're trying to do is spare your fellow guests and maybe the person who made the food the discomfort and the embarrassment of you spitting it out onto the table or whatever. But that's different than blowing your nose.

Yeah. Additionally, the napkin, this is at the end of the meal, so I'm not using any more, and I put it directly into the washing machine, ready for the next wash. And yet, I don't think this is the first time that your wife, Breanne, has said to you, that's gross, I wish you would not do it. I mean, even if there were a custom of doing this that you grew up with or whatever, even if you could mount a defense. Yeah, in your childhood,

in the world's most disgusting family circus cartoon. The fact that Brianne says, please don't do that. Who does the cooking, by the way? I do. All right. And are you sprinkling allergens over or just like a little dusting of pollen just to? Not that I'm aware of, no.

Yeah, because it's making the sinuses clog up. I did have two slices of pizza from Jennifer Marmer's mom before the show. That's true. Jennifer Marmer's mom sent a bunch of pizza that's out there in the lobby, and it's not sprinkled with allergens or poison. And I did have a... Hold on. It was Jennifer Marmer's dad, Bob.

Oh, I apologize. It was Jennifer Marmer's dad, Bob. Oh, I apologize. It was both of them, she says. It's Jennifer Marmer's birthday. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! We'll talk more about that later. And this was just to say, I did have a delightful nosebleed

in the bathroom after that. Where you can! Do you have a bathroom at your home? Here's what I'm going to say. Perhaps I... How long have you been married? Six years. Six years. So it's very early in this marriage.

Well, we've been together since high school. Okay. But you know, you're still quite young compared to me and Andy the pilot. And as you are married, you will become more and more accustomed to each other's weird bodily functions. And the polite hiding of the farts and burps and secretions will start to erode over time. You become so comfortable with each other that the barriers and the common sense tends to break down. I'm sure you've experienced this with your own parents if you have a relationship with them,

and the weird things they do in front of each other that's absolutely disgusting and should not be allowed in public. And I think that it's important to acknowledge what you're doing and put a stop to it as soon as possible. And I say this as someone who has blown his nose in a cloth napkin before. And I thought that this might have been acceptable. And when I heard this case originally, I took it to my own family and I said, what do you think of this? It's kind of like, it kind of could go either way, right?

And they were like, no, this must stop right away. And I realized, I am outside the bounds of acceptable behavior, especially since there are other things to blow your nose in, like handkerchiefs in the bathroom. And I think out of respect for your wife and the meal that she has made and your marriage and the trying to keep the magic alive rather than drowning it in phlegm.

Change your ways. This is the sound of a gap. Thank you, Brianne and Chris. And of course, thank you, Monte Belmonti. Thank you, Monte Belmonti. My pleasure. Thank you, Bailiff Jesse. Thank you, Judge John Hodgman. So great to see you. That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you to Reddit user Dr. Colossus of Rhodes. Absolute. I mean,

look up legend in the dictionary. You're going to see a picture of Dr. Colossus of Rhodes naming Judge John Hodgman episodes for naming the case in this episode. And guess what? You've listened to the whole show and now you know if you're in Western Massachusetts, you will actually get to see Perry Von Vicious and Delmi Exo take it to the ring. Get your tickets for the court ordered match between Perry and Delmy at Pro Wrestling Grind. It's happening on Saturday, July 19th at the Pulaski Club in East Hampton, Massachusetts. Get your tickets at grindpuro.eventbrite.com.

That's grindpuro.eventbrite.com. Make sure and follow us on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgeman. We're on YouTube and TikTok at JudgeJohnHodgemanPod. The Judge John Hodgman podcast created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorn. This episode was recorded by Matthew Barnhart. Dan Telfer is our social media manager. AJ McKeon is our podcast editor. Daniel Spear is our video editor.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmor. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.