Judge John Hodgman - Legalhosen

Episode Date: February 26, 2015

How many socks is TOO many socks?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte from 93.9 The River in Northampton, Massachusetts, in for Jesse Thorne. This week, legal hosen. Lisa brings the case against her husband, Matt. Matt has accumulated a large collection of socks. He began with solid colors and now has expanded to fancier patterned socks. Lisa says the collection has gotten out of hand and wants Matt to cull the herd. Matt says, put a sock in it, Lisa.

Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and socks it to them with an obscure cultural reference. I visited the home of a client in her 50s. As always, we started with her clothes. We moved through her wardrobe at a smooth pace, finished the underwear, and were ready to start organizing her socks. But when she pulled open her sock drawer, I could not suppress a gasp. It was full of potato-like lumps that rolled about. She had

folded back the tops to form balls and tied her stockings tightly in the middle. I was speechless. Let me state here and now, never, ever ball up your socks. i pointed to the balled up socks i said look at them carefully this should be a time for them to rest do you really think your socks can get any rest like that end quote guest bailiff monty belmonti swear them in lisa and matt please rise and raise your right hands, but raise them as sock puppets and come up with fancy sock puppet voices to answer when I ask you

do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth about socks whole and holy, so help you sock demon or whatever evil being constantly steals that other matching sock somewhere out of my laundry. I do. I do. I do.

That was not a cute puppet voice, Matt. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he is not wearing any socks in the middle of a New England winter? Oh, I do. Lisa? I do. I love it.

Thank you, Judge Hodgman. You may proceed. Lisa and Matt, you made me seated. Let me just first of all say, it's so nice to be here in the studios of WRSI, the River 93.9 in Northampton, Massachusetts, my part-time hometown. With my guest, Bailiff Monty Belmonte, but I do not like these cutesy sock voices at all. I like them. I think they should do the whole thing like that. You always bring an interesting energy to the program.

Kind of a Muppet energy. I don't like these cutesy voices. Why don't you like my cutesy voice? Please don't. Matt and Lisa, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I quoted as I entered the courtroom?

Matt? No. All right. No, I can't name that. I'm sorry, Judge. I can't either. You can't? I cannot.

It's okay. I'm fine with contractions. I wasn't correcting you. I wasn't correcting you. I was just saying you can't. Correct. You are correct. I cannot. correcting you. I wasn't correcting you. I was just saying you can't. Correct. You are correct. I cannot.

Thank you. I thank you. Yeah, that is a quote from a book that I have a feeling you guys are going to be purchasing multiple copies of. Go Set a Watchman? No. The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up by Marie Kondo. Oh. Which is a best-selling book that both I and our mutual best friend bought for my wife for Christmas.

Two copies of the Tidying Up book. So we got extras now. This is a book Marie Kondo is changing lives with the tidying up. Basically the whole, the whole premise is you take all their, all your belongings, you put them all on the floor and you touch each one and you determine, does this give me joy? And if the answer is yes,

you keep it. And if the answer is no, honestly, no road away. Even if it's a, honestly, no, throw it away. Even if it's a gift from your children, throw it away. And obviously she's got some ideas about socks because you ball up those socks and they don't,

they get all what she says is they don't get to rest. What she means is they get all stretched out. So Matt, you have a whole bunch of socks. Lisa, you are married to Matt? Correct. And you bring the case before this court. You seek justice. What justice do you seek? A ban of any more socks coming into this house without some socks leaving. Quick question. How many would you guess Matt has? Well, I actually did a count, but the count doesn't count because I was at 107, but his laundry wasn't finished. And we have a lot of unmated socks.

So, but you have 107 confirmed pair socks? Confirmed pair. Not 53 and a half. And this is just Matt's collection. Right. I'm talking about Matt. I don't care about your socks. We'll get to your socks in a moment.

So 107 pairs of socks matched. Yes. And then some remnants. I'm looking at a picture of the socks that you sent in, and Marie Kondo would be very mad at you, Matt. Matt? Yes. Your wife wants to hold your sock purchasing at $107.

Most sane people would agree that's probably enough socks. Why is this unjust? I mean, if I go out and I see a cool-looking pair of socks, it's a good deal. I want to be able to buy them. Wait, cool socks? They're khaki how cool can khaki socks get now wait a minute white and black there's no accounting for taste matt you guys are married yes we are how long have you guys been married

a little over 11 years little over 11 years and what is your age matt i'm 40 years old you're 40 years old and and without getting into specifics and presuming that you know, is your wife younger or older than you or about the same age? She's older than I am. All right. Well, we won't get into any deeper than that because we're a polite podcast. Lisa, how old are you? I'm 42. You're 42.

Well, she's not that much older. She's way older. Whoa. Matt, where do you guys live? We live in South Carolina. Yeah, where about? Just south of Charlotte, North Carolina. Just over the border?

Just over the border, yes. All right, very nice. Where are you guys both from? Are you both Carolingians? No, we're both originally from Ohio. What? Did you grow up talking that way in Ohio? I mean, look, I'm not a dialect expert, but I was feeling pretty strongly Southern when I first started hearing you guys. Do I guess wrong, Lisa?

Well, we've been here for a while, so maybe we picked up a few, I don't know, accents. Are you from Ohio originally? Whereabouts? Southern Ohio? Columbus, Ohio. Go Bucs. Debt. Buzz marketing.

For sports. Yeah. Worse marketing. For sports. Yeah. Worse, collegiate sports. I don't even understand that reference. It's Ohio State University Buckeyes, correct? Yes. I thought it was a kind of footwear. I love it when I know a sports thing.

Go Bucs. Go Mocs. Go fightin' Mocs. Oh, you're from Columbus, Ohio. Dead center. A town without an accent. That's correct. When you go home, what do your parents say? Like, why are you talking funny?

When I squeak out a y'all, I really hear it. What brought you guys, Lisa, what brought you guys to South Carolina? What brought you guys, Lisa, what brought you guys to South Carolina? Matt got a job at a power plant. He got out of the Navy and he was in a nuclear area. So now he works for a nuclear power plant. Oh, so no wonder you need so many socks, Matt. That is correct. Why do you need, why do you need, well, here, Matt. That is correct.

Why do you need, why do you need, well, here, I do have a question. You have quite a few pairs of socks and your wife accuses you of having more than perhaps your share of khaki colored socks. Is that right? That's correct. Now, how come khaki-colored socks. Is that right? That's correct. Now, how come khaki? Well, we have to wear khaki pants at work. Uh-huh. Match the socks to the pants.

You have to match the socks to the pants? Well, you don't have to. Oh, okay. That is the fashion rule. Well, I was just a little confused because you are no longer in the Navy. Right. What was your rank and position in the United States Navy? I was a petty officer, first class.

Petty officer, color coordinator? Well, we're all black, blue and black in the Navy. We have lots of black socks, too. But I mean, I guess what I'm getting at is this is this is matching your socks to your pants. A naval. Uniform code. It's something you picked up in the Navy. I just want to know. I don't want to I don't want to insult the men and women of our Navy. But if they're if they're telling you in the Navy that your pants, your socks have to match the color of your pants, the U.S. government is wrong. Well, I mean, not all the uniforms do they match the socks to the pants, because the enlisted white uniform, you wear black socks with white pants.

Yeah. Okay. But did you have regulations in the navy about sock color yes all right tell me what the regulation was khaki pants khaki socks well i my uniform wasn't khaki pants when i was in that it was black pants and black socks or you had blue pants and black socks and then one of your one of your one of your dress uniforms was white pants with black socks and all with navy sandals isn't that part of the sandals of course

yeah right navy navy sandals and uh and then like a big John McEnroe headband like that's the navy

uniform right yeah looks like that guy on um the YMC group the village people yeah that's right like that navy guy

well first of all thank you for your service. Second of all, why do you have to, so you work at a nuclear power facility currently? That's correct, yes. And they tell you you got to wear those khaki pants or is that your own choice? No, we have to wear a distinctive dress

from the government says that we have to look different than everybody else that works there for the operations portion of it. And my particular uniform is khaki pants and a white shirt. I have a lot of questions. So the government says, do you work in a government facility or is it a private facility? Is it a nuclear power plant? It's a Catawba nuclear station.

Okay. And it is administered by the united states government yeah it's uh well we have a regulatory nuclear regulatory commission okay so and we have guidelines on what uniforms like each level of operations that's a difference this is really what the nuclear regulatory commission is most concerned. Sounds like Obamacare for fashion to me. This is their top. All right. Before we start talking about the safety of the reactor,

can we just settle what color pants Matt's group is going to have? Is it going to be pleated or non-pleated khakis? Good question, actually. Do you have to choose? I mean, obviously, no one in their right mind would ever choose pleated, but do you have a choice? You have a choice, and most of the people choose the plain front, but some of the older, more portly gentlemen wear the pleated front. Which one are you, Matt? I'm the plain front.

All right. We can see eye to eye on this. So there is, but there is no, it's not written into your job code that socks match the pant, or is it? Like if you wore. Yeah, the socks aren't. Because you don't have, I'm looking, your your wife lisa sent in some really disturbing images of a sock collection you have quite a few white socks quite a few black socks you could wear

any of those at work right you can if you want to be that guy you know wearing the white socks with your khaki pants are you saying that if you i don't know why i white sock white socks are for athletic use only. You're wearing sneakers. What kind of shoes are you wearing? Nuclear Crocs? With the furry insides, I could probably get away

with that. I wear dress shoes. You don't want to wear white socks with dress shoes. No way. You want to wear white socks with dress shoes. No way. You want to wear, yeah. Not unless you're Elvis. If you're Elvis, you can wear whatever you want.

And you can go into any, it's true, Richard Nixon gave Elvis special permission to go into any nuclear power plant and just run it if he wanted. It was part of his deal. All right. So basically what I'm getting is there's no specific work regulation

for you to have as many khaki socks as you have, and you also have a pretty basic good understanding of what sock goes with what kind of outfit. You do have to wear a very specific khaki and white shirt uniform for your level of work within this nuclear power plant which i find fascinating but not germane to your obsessive collecting of socks so how come so many socks well i've i buy quality socks so they they last it's not about quality sir this is about quantity i understand but i was i was getting there i'm coming around to that all right um so when i go out and i see new socks like they i saw some that were like uh like multi-colored it'd be like a

tortoise shell color i was like well that's a good deal i want to buy those socks and then i just enter those into the mix and i can't throw away a good pair of socks that i already have so i just oh i see so because because you're you are compelled to buy only the finest socks and the most durable socks, they stick around. That's right. And because you are buying a pair of socks every other day, they're quite a few. Well, it's not necessarily every other day. I haven't bought any new ones since Christmas.

Oh, well, for the record, it is now February 17th of 2015. You know when the last time I bought socks was? February 17th, 2012. No. I was excited to see them for a second. Probably more recently. But how often, Lisa, how often does Matt buy socks, would you say? Because he's talking about buying some, first of all,

I don't know what a tortoiseshell-colored sock is. You're talking about like a motley, like a camo? I think it has a picture of a Ninja Turtle on it. It would almost be like a desert camouflage looking sock. Like a desert camo sock but not yeah or like a uh a tortoiseshell cat maybe like the brown and black and blonde cats that are all mixed up yeah yeah no no i know the kind of cat yeah like a yeah like a like a what do you like a torty like a torty cat the kind that they deploy in uh desert combat situations because you can't see them

i know what you mean. Yeah. Particularly if they're manx and tailless. That way nothing sticks up. They're good for recon. I'm going to ask you a very serious question. Honorary Navy SEALs. I'm going to ask you a very serious question, though, here, Matt.

Do you have any camouflage pattern socks? I don't have any camouflage socks. No, no, no, no, Matt. Do you have any camouflage pattern socks? I don't have any camouflage socks. No, no, no, no, no. I just need to know what I'm dealing with here. So Lisa, how many? I don't have any hunting socks either. What would a hunting sock look like? Bright orange?

Well, it's like those gray socks with the big band at the top or stuff like that. I'm not going out in the woods with any of my socks. No, no. You wouldn't risk harming your collection that way. That's right. I might catch a thorn in one or something.

Right. These are for dress shoe use only when near nuclear reactions. That's right. What do you do with that nuclear reactor? You move those rods in and out? shoe use only when near nuclear reactions. That's right. What do you do with that nuclear reactor? You move those rods in and out? You control the reaction? You hold the lives of everyone around you in your hand?

Basically. Yeah. I'm committed to protect the health and safety of the public. All right. The nuclear regulatory commission tells us. Oh, what are you making a joke? Does it say you guys just laugh about the nuclear regulatory commission

behind their backs all the time at work? You turn in, you, you, you turn on switches off and on without knowing what they're doing just for fun? No, we don't do that. I mean, we don't make fun of them. They can shut us down, and then my paycheck goes away.

What is your job specifically, if you are able to say? I'm a nuclear reactor operator, like a licensed nuclear reactor operator from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They've given me a license to operate reactivity additions to the core. And so what are the hours on that job? It's 6 to 6, either a.m. to p.m. or p.m. to a.m., depending on. It's 24 hours a day that someone's there. Well, I would hope so. But your shift is typically

6 to 6? 6 to 6, and I rotate from day shift to night shift. Are they concerned that you might get into a sleep pattern that will keep you alert during your work time instead of being constantly sleep-deprived? Why are they rotating you from... That's one of our biggest...

Yeah. It's because there's five different crews that all of us work. It's like a little family that you're together at the nuclear plant. And then you...

Like, when I go on tonight, I'll be relieving somebody so that they can go home. And then somebody will work the weekend and then we got people in training doing continual training on the simulators you ever do the kobayashi maru test oh i know that's a star trek reference but i can't remember what that is is that like when spock went and like looked it. Killed himself. That was not... Sir, how dare you?

How dare you? That was not a simulation. That was real fake story. Yeah. Kobayashi Maru is when Kirk faces an unwinnable situation and he rigs the game so that he can win it. Oh, yeah, I remember that. And he's accused of not ever having to face true loss.

And then Spock sacrifices himself to save the Enterprise because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. And then Kirk finally feels true loss. And then after Spock, before they send Spock down to the Genesis planet, as a memento to his friend, Kirk takes the socks that Spock was wearing. And you can see in the background of all the future movies, he always keeps them in his cabin.

I've gone very, I got very silly there. I apologize. You know, it all started because Monty Belmonte was making these sock puppet jokes. Well, so you are part of a team, and you guys rotate out because

no one wants to have the night shift every night. Is that correct? That's correct. Do you hate the other teams? The other squads? Is there rivalry? No, there isn't any rivalry, but you get isn't any rivalry. But you get closer to, like, your team than the other ones. But, I mean, we all know each other because when somebody needs, say, like, a vacation day or something, we have to go in on the other team and cover that spot.

Is it your team? Would you say your team or your group your working group what would you call it your dudes your guys are they're all guys are there any women what's the what's tell me more um well there's there's a few women that work there like there there's a couple girls on uh my team but they're called shifts and um and then um most of them are guys okay and most of us are navy veterans gotcha and so do the men and women of your shift also have as many socks as you do i don't know i i mean uh i asked one guy how many pairs of socks he had, and he didn't know, just because I was trying to prepare for the litigation here. You really anticipated my question very well, sir.

When you speak to a trusted professional colleague, someone in your shift, someone that you work with closely, and you ask him how many socks does he have and he doesn't know how many does that change your opinion of that guy no not necessarily well I mean but we are all buying trendy socks now so and everybody's trying to

outdo each other so is this going on at work you are in a you guys are all buying trendy socks together as part of a work game? Well, some of us. Who? Not everybody, but a few of us are. How many is a few? Probably four or five.

When you say trendy socks, aside from these tortoise shell desert camo socks, what other kinds of trendy socks are you guys getting? Well, we got some pretty loud striped socks. some cool looking argyle socks. Yeah. A couple people have

like Spongebob socks or Superman socks. It's really the only way you can express yourself individually at work. What's the craziest sock you've worn to work? They're blue and they have like pink and some other color stripes on them. And then I have a pair of light blue and red argyle socks. Oh, I think I see. I think your wife took clandestine photos of your exciting socks and sent them in. them and then i have a pair of light blue and red argyle socks oh i think i see i think that i think

your wife took clandestine photos of your exciting socks and sent them in yeah i know she i did three three okay so this is this this is evidence this is marked photo number two of evidence submitted by lisa you can find it on our blog photo number one is the sea of socks uh khakis white and black 107 pair but says lisa i might add this did not include dirty socks or unmated socks which would put us closer to 160 i am guesstimating end quote and then photo number two here are your matt's exciting socks three pair uh some light blue argyle, and then a couple of different stripes. Okay. Okay.

So, Lisa, how is this a problem for your life that Matt is accentuating his regulatorily drab uniform with some crazy argyles and a whole bunch of khakis. Okay, I'm not opposed to this contest that they're having for flashy socks or whatever they're called. No, because if this is a contest for flashy socks, I'm afraid Matt is losing badly. I mean, I appreciate that his step up from khaki to argyle is a big step. But if there are some dudes out there flashing some SpongeBob show sets, forget it. But we can talk about that game in a minute. Okay. He is a very conservative dresser anyway.

And those socks have been around since we've been married he hasn't got rid of gotten rid of any of the khaki socks nor the black socks yeah and i venture to guess any of the white socks yeah and it becomes a problem because of this he refuses to make the socks when he does laundry when we both do laundry. So it's equal share. But one thing he refuses to do is make the socks. And so it used to be that we used to have literally clothes baskets full of unmated socks. Now when they are mated, which most of them are now, we do have, you know, some that aren't, they don't even fit in his dresser drawer. So he says he needs a new dresser. And I say, for what? All my socks. He has a full dresser, a very large dresser. His sock drawers are larger than my drawers. They can't even close. There's so many socks.

So I don't have a problem per se with khaki socks or black socks. You know, he's conservative. I can do that. And I'm actually kind of excited. I was excited to see these little stripe socks, but something's got to give. We're going to suffocate under socks. And when you're talking about him mating the socks, you're talking about matching the socks after they come out of the wash and putting them away. I'm not sure I understand.

What is what is Matt's refusal to mate the socks mean? He just throws them all. He just throws them all in the drawer without putting them together? No, no, no, no. Oh, no. They just get thrown in a pile somewhere in the house, either on the floor where he has put the other laundry.

Clean socks? Yes, clean socks. Matt, you put a pile of clean socks on your floor? No, they're in a basket. I beg to differ. And then sometimes they have been dumped out to try and find a match. Matt. Look, I sent in evidence.

Yeah. Which photo should I be looking at here? He does a wonderful job folding laundry. Well, of course. And then you'll see this. Exactly. Which I don't fold as well as he does. I guess Bailiff Monty entered photo four in the record.

This is Matt's laundry day. A quote from Lisa. He does a fantastic job with folding and sorting. He's much neater than I am when it comes to folding and sorting. But look to the right, close up below, I see a pile of socks. And that, and so once, right now all these clothes are on the floor, Matt. What happens to the socks? You put them away somewhere?

Put them in a drawer? Well, I'll put them in a basket and take them up to the bedroom. And if I get around to it, I'll put them in the drawer. That's a lie. He's lying. That's a lie he's lying but it's a serious accusation i just don't i know it's like i'm on a different uh tv judge show here or something what when you're not he's not being honest when you wake up in the morning matt and you're getting you're looking for socks you look? Well, currently they're all in my drawer.

In real life, when you're not dressing up for something serious, like going to fake internet port, and instead are just going to your dumb job running a nuclear reactor, where are those socks being pulled from? A drawer? A pile on the floor? A basket? Answer. Well, probably a majority of the time they'd be in a basket.

All right. I have procured the guest bedroom's dresser for my sock dresser. That's not fair. That's where they all are now. Why don't you just turn the guest bedroom into your sock room? It's actually my getting ready for work room. Lisa, does Matt have any other items of clothing that he has as many pairs as this? Like,

does he also have 25 pairs of khakis at 35 white shirts? Yes. Really? Yes. Well, tell me the number. He, Oh,

I, I didn't, I wasn't prepared for that, but it's ballpark's many, many. And actually, six brand new just came in the mail. Six brand new. I would venture to say probably pairs of khaki pants. I would say 15 to 20 pairs of khaki pants.

And maybe, I don't know, 20 to 30 white shirts. No, no, no, no. It's close. But he has to hang them in another closet. I have 20 pairs of khakis, all work supplied. I have 11 pairs of khakis

work supplied. And then... Wait a minute. Are you telling me... I know. Hang on. are you telling me i know hang on are you telling me that when you work when you work when you work for a nuclear reactor you get free pants is that where my tax dollars are going yeah we get free pants and free shirts see obamacare fashion okay so Okay. So you have 11 government pants and 11 government shirts? No, they changed our logo at work, so my original allotment of shirts, I'm no longer allowed to wear them. Right, you just throw them into the reactor.

Yeah. He won't get rid of any of them, though. That's my whole issue. He won't get rid of any of them, though. That's my whole issue. He won't get rid of any socks. He still has shirts from high school. And he said, I bought these shirts the day after high school. They're still from after high school. Why won't you throw away your old high school shirts?

Well, they're not high school shirts. Well, you know. He won't donate anything. Don't be argumentative, sir. I'm asking you a question. What's it? Do you do you have more than one shirt that dates back to your early 20s, would you say? Well, I mean, I have some shirts like when I got out of nuclear power school.

I have my class T-shirt from that. Well, I would not throw that away either. Dear old nuclear power, you. That's right. Let me put it to you this way. Do you dispute that you have more pants and shirts and socks than

are required by your job where you are actually ordered to wear the same thing every day? I might have more than what's required if I want to do laundry every required if i have 11 you have 11 pairs of khakis no government khakis that he has lisa lisa lisa i'm sorry sorry you just let me just because i pause doesn't mean i'm not gonna i'm not just taking a little moment here to twist the knife okay you have 11 pairs of khakis hold just from the government and an unspecified number of khakis that you have bought with

your own money for a job that you only work at five to seven times a week by law of time. You could go for, you could easily go for two weeks without ever doing a load of laundry. That's right. All right. So would you not, would you agree that you have more than you need? Who's not, I'm not making a value judgment. Just asking you to acknowledge. Well, I mean, yeah, it's definitely more than I need.

Right. Because we work in four day stretches. So, I mean, I really only need you to acknowledge. Well, I mean, yeah, it's definitely more than I need. Right. Because we work in four-day stretches. So, I mean, I really only need four of each. Right. Every year they buy us, they give us an allotment of new stuff. So, one definition of aesthetic is to say artistic. I can't remember who said this. I don't know if it was Kant.

Anyway, one definition is a thing that you appreciate though it provides no practical purpose. It is an expression perhaps of your personality that you have these many khakis, pants and socks, right? Part of who you are. You don't need as many as you do. My question to you is, and I want you to think about this, do you have this many khakis because they give you joy to have this many

khakis or because you feel compelled to have a lot of khakis? No, they, I haven't bought myself any new khakis since my job provides the regular khakis. Right. yeah. But before, I mean, before my position, I worked out in the plant,

and you didn't wear, like, dress khakis, so when I wanted to go out somewhere, I had to have a couple pair of regular khakis. I guess what I'm asking, sir, is do you feel you have a problem? I don't have a problem. Do you ever buy... You go to meetings if you have a problem i don't have a problem do you ever buy go to meetings if you have a problem do you look i'll decide whether or not you're going to a meeting

as a khaki hoarder you ever find yourself late at night ordering socks online do you research socks online. You've researched? What kind of sock research are you doing? I didn't know this. Well, not research. I've gone on to internet shopping sites to see if I could find any. Because a guy at work told me that he bought all his online, and I was going to try and find like the sock mecca.

News to me. I didn't know this. Do you ever get a bunch of socks in the mail and don't remember ordering them? No, I've never. I haven't ordered them yet. Lisa, is your objection, so Lisa, how big is your house? About 3,200 square feet. How many bedrooms? We've got four bedrooms. All right.

Do you have any children? Well, one's in college and one's in high school. Okay. You have a guest bedroom that is currently being used as Matt's getting his socks on room. Dressing boudoir. Exactly, yes. He does his own laundry. Are you guys split at 50-50 for real?

Yes, we do it 50-50 for real. I'm going to ask you the same question that I asked him. I asked him, he has more socks. We'll just stay on socks from in here because I can't even dig into the cat. I never got around to the white shirts. More socks than he needs, obviously, but it provides something to him, some aesthetic pleasure beyond practical use, right?

Is your objection to his sock hoarding a practical or aesthetic objection that is to say is this getting in your in your way on a practical day-to-day basis by gumming up the works of your laundry or taking up room in the house that you need for other reasons or is all that okay you just it bothers you on some aesthetic non-practical level some that he has so many socks well i would say a little bit of both but right now it's the reasoning of he doesn't make them they don't fit in the drawers now we had to move to another room to put his khakis in um and it's gotten better because now i have mated the socks i mean it would take, actually, you know what? It used to be so bad when our kids made us mad,

we would make them mate the socks out of the laundry basket. As family punishment. That's right. But now I've tried to catch up because my goal was any unmated sock gets trashed. Do you think your husband has a problem? Does he have a compulsion? That goes

beyond the socks. Yes, he won't get rid of anything. How many socks would you like him to throw away? How many socks would you like him to have? Over half of them. Okay, how many would I like? 10 of each. So 30 socks or 10 of each 30 socks but i i would like for him to continue on this um i like his um his wild and crazy socks

i like his wild and crazy 40 socks 10 white 10 khaki 10 crazy. And by crazy, I mean they're striped. Correct. So that's 60 to 70 socks you've got to get rid of if I were to find in your favor. Matt, do you have a problem with that? Well, with the white socks, because I did the math earlier on the socks, and I figure if you have, with all the different types of white socks, you have crew socks, you have ankle socks, and you have no-show socks. They all come in like an

8 to 10 pack of socks when you go buy them. I'm already into it for 30 socks right there. Do you have any socks within reach right now? No, I don't. Go get a pair of socks. Just grab a pair at random.

While he's doing that, Lisa, why not just let him have as many socks as he wants? I don't know that answer because how many more socks does he wants i don't know i don't know that answer because how how much how many more socks does he want what's the limit how is it i mean we're gonna have to buy another house do you think is that a realistic concern well i don't know he's moved his socks into another room um when did he move the socks into the other room well because there was no room in his dresser when oh i did it actually he and i say i can't fit any more in you know

what i'm going to start putting them in the other room and he said that's a good idea go ahead and do that so i had to do that like i don't know about less than a month ago is this an issue that has got him in there is this an issue that has gotten worse or has stayed the same for, say, the past five years? Oh, worse, because they've accumulated. He doesn't get rid of any of them, and that's what's happening. I put him on a sock ban, and then the next thing I know, I don't know when he buys them because I'm never with him when he buys them. And my son will say, I thought you banned dad from buying socks. And I said, I did. And he's like, what are those?

And there's a whole thing of khaki socks right there. And so I don't understand why he needed more khaki socks. So I just we don't need like let's donate them to their quality socks. So let's donate some of them to somebody who could use quality socks. Matt, he doesn't want to donate. Are you back? I'm back. Yes.

Why don't you want to donate socks you don't use very often? Well, I mean, it's kind of gross getting used socks. Why do you buy socks if you've agreed to not buy socks well i didn't buy any but when i was out christmas shopping i was at one of the i was at a uh it's not real high end but it's it's medium end uh store that and they had these socks up by the counter and i was like those are some cool socks so i just went ahead and bought them lisa discussed while you were off getting a pair of socks and i don't know how you could have possibly chosen of your collection in that period of time that i gave you but is it is it true that lisa has put you on a sock buying ban before

yeah she told me not to buy any more socks. And how did that make you feel? Well, I mean, it doesn't make me mad or anything. And now I just buy them as a joke. No, you're not. And I put them out just to see what she'll say. You know what I'll say. All right, I'm going to ask Lisa one question,

then I'm going to ask Matt a question, then I'm going to go into the room where i keep all of my pocket squares and i'll come to my decision lisa does the fact that he has this many socks and continues to buy more and refuses to throw them away does this impede his happiness is this making him unhappy? No, it's not. Alright. Matt, you have a pair of socks in your hand? I do. Is there a garbage bin nearby?

Yes. Alright, now describe the socks you have in your hand. Oh, these are a pair of all-white ankle socks socks all right do they bring you joy uh no these throw them away throw them away throw them away right now but if you put it on your hand and talking to puppet voice monty how dare you trying to save them can you throw can you throw them away right now?

They don't bring you joy. I threw them to the garbage can. You threw them to or in? Well, they didn't make it to in. I threw it over there. I'll have to pick them up off the floor. Go pick them up off the floor and put them in the garbage can. Okay.

Those are junky socks. Put a nice pair. Lisa, I'm trying to help you here. Okay, I'm sorry. Monty and Lisa, can you just give Matt this moment? He's throwing away a pair of socks. Don't give him joy. I know.

Okay. Oh, that's okay. Okay. Just little baby steps. Matt? okay oh that's okay okay little baby steps matt yes i'm back okay i thought for you had passed out for a minute no was that hard no it wasn't hard how do you feel oh i mean it it didn't uh it wasn't like i was like i have a habit or something or i need to like i need cured or an intervention or anything when when this podcast is over are you going to take those socks out of that garbage can i've i don't know yeah probably not all right i think i've heard

everything i need in order to make my decision i I'm going into my, my pocket square room to render my, I'll be back in a moment and render my judgment. Oh, hang on. I got something else to put in here. Lisa wears my khaki socks. Well, I'm going to ask you to rise as judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom,

but I want, I want to know a little bit more about this. How often does Lisa wear khaki socks, Matt? Well, on my days off, maybe one or two out of my days off, she'll say, I'm taking a pair of your socks. But I normally go to work before she does, so I don't know if she wears them or not. She could be repeatedly wearing hundreds and hundreds of your socks when you're not even there in the 12-hour shift. That's right. Okay.

Lisa. I do, but it's not pleasurable. It's not pleasurable? I don't like to wear them. Why aren't you wearing your own socks? Because I don't need to buy any socks. We've got a sock emporium at our house. But I will say this.

Try to wear, it's the equivalent of you wearing uh shaquille o'neal socks i mean the heel goes all the way up to my achilles tendon again why are you wearing them then because i don't have enough quality socks you don't even own any socks because matt owns all the socks in the house is that what you're trying to say, Lisa? That is correct, Monty. Thank you for bringing that out. I didn't want to go there, but thank you. Now, I do have a couple questions. Lisa, do you

think that radiation poisoning could be leading to his chocosis? Possibly. They do test him every day when he leaves. What if he needs to run this plant for like three months straight he has enough socks that if he had to bring them with him and one pack them up in a bag he could run that nuclear power plant and keep north carolina safe or south

carolina i forget where you are for three months have you ever thought of that no i i have not entered that into the equation at all. Could you stage some sort of silent protest against the Sox and refuse the Sox husbandry and just not make these Sox and let them take over the whole household until he realizes the level of his depravity? But then he'll wake me up digging for Sox. Then he'll wake me up digging for socks. Well, I mean, if he's got 100 pairs of khaki socks, the chances are if he grabs three of them, he's got a pair of either black or khaki or whatever. Right. How bad could it be?

They have to be perfectly, perfectly matched. Same brand, same stripes, same everything, same shade. He's very particular. Now, Matt, this is what's funny to me, because it seems like you've gone into a trendy sock trend. Are those do those violate the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's regulations and the Obamacare of fashion in regards to what you can wear at this nuclear power plant? No, the socks are the only things that they don't mention. So then why do you need so many khaki socks? It seemed at the beginning, like you were saying, we need them for a government regulation. any khaki socks. It seemed at the beginning like you were saying, we need them for government regulation.

If you're going to have a few pair of amazing socks, just have a few pair of amazing socks and wear them with your government-issued khaki pants and white shirts. Well, here recently, they let us start wearing like a blue sweater. Oh! How

times have changed. That's right. We're fashion forward now in the control room, but people are wearing the bring a little sense of class to the control room with their fancy socks and their sweaters and stuff.

I don't know the Navy regulations in regards to sock matching, but do you know the civilian fashion sock matching rule in regards to matching socks to pants? Well, you can either match it to your shirt or your pants. It'd be a real stretch to match it to your shirt. Socks should be one shade

lighter than your pants. As evidence in the record right now, Monty's dark blue pants and slightly lighter blue socks with a blue teal strand right down there by the bottom right there. So if you really want to knock the guys out of the nuclear power plant,

start going by that motif. One shade lighter than the pants. We'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's decision. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom first of all i i heard you through my chamber door monty you used the term psychosis and that's a terrible pun but so terrible that you needed to bring it up again. I love puns. I enjoyed it. And I know how much you hate them. I hate myself that I enjoyed it. But the important thing is that I endeavor to have awareness. The things that I enjoy compared to the things that I reflexively react to.

So, for example, that it was a pun makes me loathe you. But that it was a pun that I sort of enjoyed, I can acknowledge that and say, I'm back to adoring you. Always a pleasure to have you in the courtroom. Oh, thank you. I'm back to adoring you. Always a pleasure to have you in the courtroom. Oh, thank you. And what I don't know quite what to do with regard to this case is how to evaluate Matt's level of enjoyment of the many, many, many extraneous socks that he owns.

Because, Matt, you have more socks than a human needs. And it's not a situation where you have a crazy sock collection. That you just love socks from around the world. Or that you love socks that have specific patterns on them. You have a lot of boring socks, dude. A lot of boring socks. And what's even weirder is that you don't even have like a hundred pair of the same sock, which would make your habit of not mating them genius.

Right? If you had a hundred khaki socks sock, which would make your habit of not mating them genius, right? If you had 100 khaki socks that were the exact, you had discovered the brand that you loved and the shade of khaki sock that you love and you had 20 pair of just those and no other khaki socks, then I would kind of say you're a a genius. Because then you don't have to mate them. You don't have to put them together. You don't have to match them, which is what we say above the Mason-Dixon line. We don't mate socks.

It sounds a little gross. Match them in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Unless you have a foot fetish. Maybe you're mating them. These socks is why you have too many socks. Maybe the socks are given, maybe it's sock mitosis. No, it's not as close.

You said mitosis. I like it. A little punny. Oh. Mitosis. I got it. I did not mean for that to happen. Oh, now I hate myself. And I love you more.

So I don't know, you know, and the questions that I'm asking, Matt, are like, I don't know where, I don't know whether you're taking pleasure in this. I don't know whether you're compelled. I don't know what has led to the situation where you have so many socks that they're spilling over into a almost sock specific and other extra clothes specific room. And when I ask you about, do you enjoy it? Do you feel compelled to buy more? Do you just love doing it? The only answer that I get that felt really real was, I buy them as a joke to bother my wife, which I kind of loved.

my wife which i kind of loved and that you you know then there's the aspect of not just acquiring more socks but not getting rid of the old ones you say that people don't want to have old socks no one needs to have old socks throw them away throw them away you don't have to you don't have to these socks have have done their job for you you know what i mean like i bet you if you dump them into a salvation army box there are lots of people who would who would or a or a or a a shelter of some kind there are probably lots of people who would love to have those used socks. That's not your concern, right? Your concern is, are you happy every day? As long as you're not spending all your money on socks and your family can't live, right? You know, then all that's really concerned about, all you really have to concern yourself with, with regard to these socks, is cleanliness and your pleasure.

All you really have to concern yourself with with regard to these socks is cleanliness and your pleasure. So are these socks bringing you joy or are they a hassle or what? I'm not sure that you have that, you know, the answer is yourself. Do you? Well, the new socks I got at when I was Christmas shopping, those actually did bring me joy when i bought them yeah but is that the problem that each time you get new socks do you have a certain joy and you're chasing that sock demon are you chasing the the the uh what's the dopamine response of getting new socks is that what's happening the sock puppet master now i mean there's three that i just bought that because i want i was excited to go to work to let the guys see them right but those were the only ones that i uh yeah and then when i saw

i was like man those are some cool looking socks i'll get those well you know the thing is in life you know there there isn't much that we need and there are acquisitions that we make you know we don't we don't not all of us need 11 pairs of khakis not all of us need 100 pairs of socks not all of us need the sweatshirt that i got on which is uh advertising a particularly weird esoteric brand of uh aquavit that they only sell in chicago that tastes disgusting you know we don't need a lot from our clothes other than other than fairly good uh uh good craftspersonship and warmth and protection from the elements but we have more clothes than we need even if we have fewer than a hundred pair of socks because aesthetically it gives us pleasure beyond the practical reason we have clothes and i am in favor of this this is what fashion is and fashion so long as it is responsible

within your own budget and where it's sourced in the world is a wonderful thing and i can appreciate that what you're going through right now is that on your you are evaluating your sock collection setting aside all your other collections on a sock-by-sock basis. These socks that I'm getting now give me pleasure. This pair of socks I might wear tomorrow. This pair of socks I haven't worn in months, but I'm not going to go through the process of getting rid of it. And at no point do you actually look and say oh my god i have a hundred pair of socks you're evaluating each sock on its own little merits but you're not looking at the whole

mass of socks that you have in your life you know that it is not giving your wife any pleasure and the question that i ask you is when you look at all those socks in front of you, does that give you pleasure to see that many socks? If the answer is truly yes, then I don't have a problem with that. You have a spare bedroom. You have a one child in college.

Another child in high school is going to leave sooner rather than later. Maybe this is your thing. Maybe this is the thing that's going to give your life meaning and purpose after you guys become empty nesters. And you just have to press that button so that, so that the nuclear reactor doesn't melt down every now and then and you need some fancy socks and some khaki socks to stay happy and sane and you're like that's fine but what i don't think what i think has happened is you've accrued and this is my opinion uh that that is now going

to be enforced by fake interlaw you've accrued a rather large, imposingly large collection of socks, so far beyond what you need, that it is worthwhile to take a look at the whole collection and decide, does this make me happy? And so I'm going to tell you to Marie Kondo it. I don't care. Sorry, Lisa. I don't care about Lisa's happiness. Because you're doing the laundry, you're keeping those socks, as long as you're keeping the socks out of her life,

you can have as many socks as you want. But for your own happiness, I'm ordering you to take all of your socks, match them, put them on the floor. This is a Marie Kondo thing. Absorb the picture of all of your socks and then take a big basket or trash bag, right? Pick up each sock.

Look at it. Ask yourself, does this pair of socks bring me joy? If the answer is yes, put it back on the ground. If the answer is no or I don't know, anything other than yes, this gives me joy, put them in the garbage bag. Don't call it a garbage bag. Put it a sock bag.

Then when you're done, give that bag to Lisa and let her do with it whatever she's going to do. Donate them, throw them away, whatever. You're never going to think about them again. And then if you're left with 50 pair of socks that all of which give you joy, then you have a defense. You're like, oh,

I went through all these socks. They all give me joy. Then your wife can't say anything. As long as you're doing your share of the laundry and you're keeping it out of her hair, go for it. Now, Lisa, when you get these garbage bags of socks set them aside i'll tell you why in a second matt

you mentioned that you recently had to get all new work shirts because they changed the logo that's right. Right. Another great use of time and money in our government. Beginning to sound like a real tea party guy. How many old logo shirts do you have that you can no longer wear? Eight. All right. Would you send them to MaxFun headquarters so that we can sell them on our store and we'll split the proceeds with you?

I can do that for you. I don't know if it's legal. You may want to check. Yeah. All right. Lisa, when you have that bag of socks, let me give you the address to send them to. Jesse Thorne.

Maximum Fun. And I'll give you the address. I don't know whether Jesse wants to have it on the air or not, the mailing address. I'm sure you can find it. It's 2404 Wilshire Boulevard,

Los Angeles, California, 90057. Tell me how much it costs to send them. I will reimburse you. And you can throw in the shirts as well, and we'll sell, well, the shirts have to go someplace. They have to go to Topatico.com here in the Commonwealth as well. And we'll sell. Well, the shirts have to go someplace. They have to go to Topatico.com here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

But we'll see. We'll, you know, check the legality of selling government expired government logo shirts online. Because, Matt, I have a feeling you and I are going to make a fortune. Lisa, we're just sending Jesse these socks for fun. Yes, he'll love them. His fashion sense will just love them. Well, I don't think he's even going to open the bag. He's just going to drop them in a Salvation Army thing somewhere.

There may only be three pair of socks in that whole bag. Yeah, that's true. We don't even know if it may be an empty bag. It may be an empty bag. But I urge you truly, Matt, to seek in this moment, this meditative sock contemplation moment, whether each pair gives you real active joy.

And if not, throw them in the bag. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Matt, how do you feel about Judge John Hodgman's decision? I can live with rules. That is all. Matt, how do you feel about Judge John Hodgman's decision? I can live with it. I liked it.

I realize we didn't even ask you how many feet you have, and that probably would have been a fair question to start off with. Apologies if you have more than two feet. I can't believe how ableist this podcast is. We just presumed that he had two feet. Sorry. Lisa, does that seem like a fair judgment to you? I guess it's fair, but I agree with you.

There's going to be three pair of socks in there. And I thought I was going to win this one. Make sure at least they're unwashed before you send them to Jesse Thorne. Let him wear them one more time, put them in the bag, send them to Jesse Thorne, and call it a day. Well, thank you both for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. I really want to see how many socks are in this bag.

At least 75%, I think. Well, we'll see. All right. We'll see. Go big or go home, Matt. Touch base with your joy. I will. Your sock joy.

And then we'll work on your white shirts. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum

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on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-R. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Thanks to Alberto Zuniga for suggesting this week's case name.

Legal Holocene. To suggest a name for future cases, like us on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for submissions. If you have a case for the judge, submit it at www.maximumfund.org slash J.J. Ho. J.J. Ho. I've been your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte from 93.9 The River in Northampton. Julia Smith

produces the show. Mark McConville is our editor. Thanks for joining us for the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Sock it to me. I love it. Sock it. I can't think of any others. Socks is hard. Mitosis.

That sounds great. Did you mean that? No. I love it, though. Ugh. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned.

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