Judge John Hodgman - Live Freon or Die

Episode Date: October 24, 2012

This week, daughter squares off against father in a temperature tiff! Olivia brings the case against her father Mike. Mike lives in Arizona where temperatures often soar, and he drives a car without air conditioning. Olivia believes this is a health hazard and disapproves of her father's homemade solutions to cool his vehicle, citing specific times when his efforts have embarrassed him. Mike contends plenty of people have survived without air conditioning in the past and claims he enjoys employing his improvised fixes. Who is right in this coolness quarrel? Judge John Hodgman will decide.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Liz Gilbert, in for Jesse Thorne. This week, live Freon or die. Olivia brings the case against her dad Mike. Both live in the Arizona desert. The air conditioning in Mike's car hasn't worked for some time, and he's implemented a number of stopgap measures to cool off. Mike sees no pressing need to get the car's AC fixed, but Olivia begs to differ, saying his methods are embarrassing and potentially dangerous. Should Mike be ordered to fix the AC, or should Olivia chill out?

Only one man can decide. Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. The word that guest bailiff Elizabeth Gilbert is unable to put into the hot, still, sodden air is doomed. Because one month ago, this courtroom suddenly changed its elliptical orbit and in so doing began to follow a path which gradually, moment by moment, day by day, took it closer to the sun. And all of man's little devices to stir up the air are now no longer luxuries. They happen to be pitiful and panicky keys to survival. The time is five minutes to twelve, standard internet time. There is no more darkness.

The place is Park Slope, Brooklyn, and this is the eve of of the end because even at midnight, it's high noon, the hottest day in history and you're about to spend it in the court of Judge John Hodgman. Swear them in, Liz. Olivia and Mike, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has not been to Arizona, nor in a private car, nor out of doors in over a decade? Yes. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, you may begin. Thank you very much, Guest Bailiff Elizabeth Gilbert. Lovely to see you again. Nice to be here. Now, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can either you, Olivia, or you, Mike, name the piece of popular culture that I was paraphrasing as I entered the courtroom? Nightfall?

I know this. Oh, you jumped right in there, sir. What did you suggest, sir? Isaac Asimov's Nightfall, but that's all. That is wonderfully esoteric and weird to guess, and I love it, but no. Olivia? I was going to say Dune, but I think that's wrong. Oh, do you know how long I spent searching for an appropriate Dune quote for this tale of wandering through the desert and trying to survive.

But no, I could not find one, and it is not one. It is from The Twilight Zone, specifically Season 3, Episode 75, The Midnight Sun, written by Rod Serling himself, in which the sun is getting closer to the earth, just as I described, and everyone is getting really hot, and no one is driving around without air conditioning. And this pertains to this particular case because this is a dispute over air conditioning. Olivia, what is the problem with your father, Mike? We live in Arizona. It's very hot, particularly in the summertime, but it tends to last well into fall and it starts up in the spring. So most of the year it's very hot. He drives to visit me. He lives about two hours away and he visits me maybe once a month or so. And that's a two hour drive in a car with no air conditioning in the sun in the arizona temperatures and it's dangerous i mean he could get uh heat exhaustion and even heat stroke and people people die out here from from the heat that is a that is a bold claim how many people die

per year of the heat, would you say? I don't know. Is it a regular part of the newscast every night? Maybe not every night. I mean, usually they're walking or something, but it's not infrequent. Not to be belligerent, but can you cite a single case where someone who as frail and as elderly as your father has died as a result of not having air conditioning in his car, like a dog in a supermarket parking lot with the windows rolled up? Has that happened? No, that specific type of thing has not happened to my knowledge. Okay, that's fine.

I'm just I was just curious if there was a particular incident that had, that had incited your concern. Right. Well, and even if, you know, death is kind of extreme, but heat exhaustion. I usually, I usually say that that's true. I usually say that. But heat exhaustion can leave you more sensitive to the heat for the rest of your life. sensitive to the heat for the rest of your life. I mean, I, I got heat exhaustion several years ago and I just can't handle as much heat as I used to be able to.

Oh, I see. So you're projecting your, your own sensitive frailty upon your father. I understand. Yes. That's good. That's,

that's what, that's what children should do. Mike, you are this person's father. Yes. So what kind of car do you drive? This one's a 99 Prism, Chevy Prism. Okay.

It used to be the Geo Prism, I believe, until they stopped that line. Yeah, but Chevy took over when they stopped Geo. So this is a Chevy Prism. So it's a 99 Chevy Prism. So it's an old metal junk box on wheels. Gotcha. How many miles are on it? It's approaching 220,000.

Good heavens. And did it never have air conditioning? The air conditioning failed about two years ago when I was living in Michigan. And it failed in the fall. And so it's not an issue here in Michigan. When I moved to Arizona, I figured I'd get it fixed, but I'd lived in Arizona before for a number of years and didn't have a car with air conditioning. So I figured I'd just let it go for a year.

And now it's been two years, and it's worked okay. I mean, I'm saving the planet here by saving the energy and the freon and all that stuff. Right. Well, I think that you may be the single reason that global warming doesn't happen. So thank you. But it is. I mean, it does contribute a lot to, I mean, air conditioning, especially car air conditioning, contributes a tremendous amount of carbon dioxide and other materials into the atmosphere. Does it not? Well, some anyway.

It's a contributor, certainly. I'm trying to make your case for you if you want to correct me. It is a contributor. Okay. And is that why you are doing this or are you just lazy? Lazy. Lazy and frugal. All right. There you go. Right. Because is that why you are doing this or are you just lazy? Lazy. Lazy and frugal. All right.

There you go. Right. Because you save on the gas, right? Well, save on the gas and the repair cost too. How much would it cost to repair the air conditioning system in your 99 Geo Prism? My guess, it's around $500. But that's just a guess. I really don't know.

And is that more than you can afford at this time? No, I could afford it. It's just there's something in the challenge of living in Arizona without air conditioning in your car. Oh, I see. So it's not really a high-minded save the planet. And it's not even fatality so much as it is your personal giving of the finger to the state of Arizona. Judge, can I ask a question of Mike? Please go ahead.

Mike, are you my father? No. I was just checking. Is this something that happens in your father's life as well? I was just checking to see if you were John Gilbert with a fake voice. Go ahead. Does he also swear at the sun and damn it to hell? My father also operates with that combination of laziness, frugality, and belligerence toward the world.

It just seems very familiar to me. Go on with your case. Maybe you and maybe, yes, all right. So maybe you are lost sisters, Liz Gibbott and Olivia. Possibly. So you said you had lived in Arizona before, and your car has 200,000 miles on it, and then you went to Michigan. So do I understand correctly that you are being chased by the law and living out of your car and driving all over the country? No, that's not true.

No, I'm straight with the law. Okay. But thank you for using criminal patois to explain it. It seems like maybe you've finally given up your safe crack. He has his strange methods of being frugal and cursing at the sun and the world in general. He's gotten pulled over before for weird erratic driving, trying to shave off miles on his trip. Do you do that thing, sir, where you... That's irrelevant, though, to this case.

No, I find specific descriptions of parental eccentricity to be always relevant and welcome in this courtroom. Do you do that thing where you follow trucks very closely and be in their wake so that you don't have to use as much gas to get super high mileage? I don't follow very closely. I follow at the safe distance, but when I'm behind a truck, if I'm on the highway, I find a truck and hang out back there,

but I'm not dangerously close. And I usually try to stay in his mirror. And so are you a high mileage or are you someone who tries to make the drive from, where are you driving from in Arizona? What's this two hour drive that you do? Safford to Arizona? What's this two-hour drive that you do? Safford to Tucson. It's about two hours. And that's where you live, Olivia, in Tucson? Yes. That's a nice town.

I can't speak for Stafford. So what's the best mileage you've gotten in that two hours? I usually do it by tank full, and I get around 40, 42 miles per gallon on a tank full oh wow and that's and that's pretty good considering wow it's not bad the chevy prism has a two gallon tank well it's it's 12 gallons and uh it does it has a standard transmission so it's you can you can do better with a standard than an automatic it's's kind of like a moped though, right? Yes.

44 miles per gallon, that's pretty good. Yeah. And is that the main reason that you were doing this? No, the main reason I'm not buying an air conditioner, there was the combination that we've talked about before.

Lazy, frugal. Thank you for reminding me that we've already gone over this. I apologize. That's all right. Do you drive with the windows down? If it's hot, yes. It's Arizona, okay? It's hot.

Yeah, it's hot. Except in the nighttime when it's bitterly cold. Do you have a heating system or do you just have a kerosene lamp? The heater works, yes. Okay, good. And what is your job? Do you have a job atene lamp? The heater works, yes. Okay, good. And what is your job? Do you have a job at this time? Yes, I do.

I'm an analytical chemist for a mining company. So it's okay for you to arrive at work with sweat stains and your teeth full of bugs? Yes, it is, actually. Okay, so it sounds like your dad is uh is uh is doing okay olivia yes but it's it's always you know fine until someone gets hurt and i understand that he survived for many years without air conditioning in his car before um but that was like 30 years ago and you know, he's a lot older now. And I worry about him. What other crazy things has he been pulled over for?

Oh, the specific instance, he was driving. This was in Michigan. He was driving a usual route to the town where the grocery store was, which is about an hour away. And he wanted to see how much, how many miles he could shave off the distance by hugging the, the fog line and the center line based on where the road was curving. So he would swerve back and forth within the lane, trying to hug the curves. and he was pulled over by

a state trooper so he was trying to get on the inside lane yes on a running track and would this would this involve him going against traffic to get to the inside no no not like that he stayed within within his lane okay but within the lane he was swerving back and forth and was pulled over for driving erratically. Yeah, but Mike, if it were late at night and you knew that no one else was on the road, would you get over there? No, no. I have some rules. What are the rules? If there's oncoming traffic, you cease and desist.

oncoming traffic, you cease and desist. You go to the center of the lane, and then if there's pedestrian traffic or bicycles, you go to the center of the lane or avoid those dangers. But up here, I'm in a remote part of Michigan, and there's not much traffic. So I like how you describe that as your rules. How did you come to these scientific rules, which are don't hit other cars, don't hit other people? Just as situations came up, I just decided that under certain circumstances. Common sense guidelines, I guess. Yes, guidelines. You know what?

We could all live by them, truly, if we applied them in our own lives. Don't hit other cars, don't hit people or bicyclists. Right, yes. Words to live by them, truly, if we applied them in our own lives. Don't hit other cars. Don't hit people or bicyclists. Words to live by. All right. And you also supplied some evidence, Olivia, of other strange behavior by your dad, which I welcome very much, regarding his heat shields. Could you describe this? Yes. Do you want me to describe them? I'll have you describe it first, please. Okay. So, well, around here, it's very common to have these kind of aluminum accordion folding

shields that you would put inside your windshield after you've parked to keep the sun from beating in. Yes. But he's taken a slightly different approach and he puts them on the outside of the car. So he started out just putting it on the outside of the, while driving. No, no. After being parked.

Yes. So while after parking, he'd put it on the outside of the car. And I think he maybe used to put the windshield wipers over it to try and hold it in place, but that didn't work too well. So he added shoelaces to the edges and then put knots in the shoelace so that he could slam them in the doors and they'd remain secure that way at some point he decided that just having the shield in the front wasn't

enough he wanted to put one in the back so he did the same thing in the back with the shoelaces, but the bottom part kept flipping up with the wind. Well, wait, I'm very confused here. So I have the photos here. Yes. reflective, padded covering that you would get from, say, AutoZone or whatever to put on the inside of your windshield in order to block the sun when the car is parked. But you've got a bunch of them and you're wrapping them all around your car. Is that correct? I have two. There's one for the front and one for the back.

And, Olivia, I'm very concerned about the word flapping because flapping would suggest movement of some kind. Why would the wind be flapping because flapping would suggest movement of some kind why would the wind be flapping is the car moving at any time when no the front or back window is covered no okay are you aware sir that these can go on the inside of your car and in fact are designed to go there i've been told by strangers that that's true but they work much better on the outside how so i mean you're the you're the scientist with bugs in his teeth. Explain to me why this is better. Well, when they're on the outside, the radiation never gets inside the car.

If they're inside, the radiation gets through the windshield and actually heats up the heat shield. So when you get in the car, and I've done this, you know, when I've been in a hurry and I didn't want to put them on the outside, I put them up on the inside. When you get in the car and fold up the heat shields, they're hot, but they never get hot when they're on the outside. They're cooled by the air. They're the same temperature as the air.

So, and all that heat remains in the car's cabin. Do you know something? Yes, go ahead. Just may I interrupt you for a moment to address your daughter? Olivia, I got to say, that made a hell of a lot of sense to me. I'm really surprised. I'm really surprised to say that makes sense. I might start doing this myself.

It does make sense. But he's described to me that he's been embarrassed a few times when coworkers have approached him and said, hey, you know, you're doing that wrong. It doesn't seem to me like your dad is a person who feels embarrassment. No. That's a good point. Were you embarrassed, sir, or did you tell your daughter this story and she empathically felt embarrassment on your behalf? I think it was empathy on her part.

I don't think I was embarrassed, no. on your behalf. I think it was empathy on her part. I don't think I was embarrassed. Well, there's the time when the thing was flapping open in the back before he figured out that he needed to open the trunk to secure the bottom part that he was going out to lunch

with a bunch of co-workers and nobody said anything about this thing flipped up on his car, but he said that he felt very self-conscious and was really embarrassed about it. But it sounds like he felt self-conscious not because he was wrapping his car, but he said that he felt very self-conscious and was really embarrassed about it. But it sounds like he felt self-conscious not because he was wrapping his car in plastic, but because his his plastic wrapping heat shield device was not working properly. That's correct. Yeah, that's correct.

Look, I've got I've got a mustache. I'm rapidly moving into weird dad territory, so I'm not a young person anymore. I see the wisdom of a lot of this. And you have to open the trunk in order then to secure the heat shield in the back. Is that right? That's correct, yes. So you essentially have to open all the orifices in the car to get the heat shields on, except for the trunk.

Right. See, I'm taking notes now. I want to do this in my own car. And especially like you want to open all the orifices. I want to make sure I get that down. When you describe this to people, how do you avoid using the word BTUs? We haven't used it yet. So I guess it's never occurred to me to use BTUs.

It's the only way that I actually know that you're not my father as you're talking right now. It's because he would have already started discussing British thermal units about the heating of the pads. But I'm also very impressed with this whole arrangement. Thanks. Now, but you have to leave the trunk open and all of the orifices are not as secure as they normally would be. Aren't you afraid that someone is going to steal whatever weird stuff you have in your trunk? No, I don't leave any of them open. They're all closed and locked.

It's not unlocked. Oh, so you open the trunk, put the heat shield into the gap, then close the trunk again? I put the shoestring with the knot on it into the gap, close the trunk, and the shoestring is tied to the heat shield and keeps it down. The shoestring with the knot. How could I have been so blind?

Of course. Well, it all sounds very ingenious to me. Olivia, does your father have any other jerry-rigged car improvements to cool the car? Well, he came up with an evaporative cooler for the inside. I think he eventually abandoned it because he was afraid of electrocuting himself. That doesn't sound like the Mike I know. What is the evaporative cooler, sir, that you put into your car? Can you explain this to me?

Well, I was driving back from Palm Springs and it was pretty hot. So I wadded up a paper towel and put it over the vent, turned the fan on and sprayed water on it, poured water on it at that point and it cooled off a little bit so it occurred to me that I could cut up an old t-shirt and duct tape it over the vent and then as it developed,

I could put a cup of water in the cup holder and the capillary action would keep it wet for a little while. But I would need to squirt water on it to actually get any – to keep it wet during operation. Why don't you get an old Windex bottle and fill it with water, and you could do that all the way? Sure. Well, that's what I wound up doing. Well, yes, essentially that's what I did. Well – And squirted it. Go ahead. Please tell me where I'm wrong. I wound up doing. Yes, essentially that's what I did.

Go ahead. Please tell me where I'm wrong. If you did it a different way, I would like to know. I didn't wait to empty a Windex bottle. I just bought a bottle like that. Very good. I see. And how much did that cost you, $500?

No, I think it was under a dollar. Was it $700 to create this mechanism of wadded up t-shirts? No, it was a discarded t-shirt. And I think it was less than a dollar for the squirt bottle. And may I presume that no one ever drives in your car with you ever? That's true. I got to tell you about a problem with the heat shields. On the second year of operations, they started shedding bits of plastic, little bits of eighth of an inch length plastic. So they started to accumulate in the car.

So I wound up putting the heat shields in the trunk, storing them there instead of in the car. Are you saying that you had degenerative heat shield failure after two years? Are you saying that you had degenerative heat shield failure after two years? Yes. Do we need to get Richard Feynman in to look at the evidence to see what went wrong? Yes. But in the meantime, I was in the market for another car. So I went to a car dealer and he insisted on riding in my car. So he accumulated some of these bits of plastic on his pants as he sat where I'd been storing the heat seal.

So people rarely ride in my car with me. Wait a minute. If you were saying – but I'm curious about the phrase, I was in the market for another car, because it suggests that you might actually – you were considering buying another car to replace the 200,000-mile prism. But then you chose not to. Well, yeah. The prism, we're keeping the prism. But I have another car that was about the same age and a little more mileage on it. And it's kind of rusty.

So for reasons of we just wanted to, you know, replace the – it was kind of – yeah. It sounds like you're someone who likes to collect data. Do you have a sense of how hot it gets in the car when you're driving with the windows down? Let's say just in standard configuration without deploying the wet t-shirts and the vents? No, I actually don't. I haven't collected any data on that. Olivia, you submitted some evidence about the average heat in Arizona, and I think you have a couple of long tables, one for Safford, one for Tucson.

Yes. And the monthly, it all just says hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, right? It's hot, hot, hot, hot, right? Yes, exactly. Right. In the summertime, it's up in the 90s into the low 100s, right? Yes. Okay. time it's you know it's it's up in the in the 90s into the into the low hundreds right yes okay uh do you have any sense of what the average heat is in there when he's driving around because with

the windows down you're going to get uh you're going to get air blowing through and even though it's hot air that is the through the process of uh convection that's going to wick away a certain amount of heat is that not right sir yes all right thank you yeah see indeed indeed you could even take that spray bottle and instead of spraying the wet t-shirts you could spray yourself and get evaporation right off your skin yep that works yeah and that's in i think you might notice in some of the pictures i submitted there's an orange towel draped over the um steering wheel yeah that was a towel that i actually gave to him after he visited me visited me um i froze it i got it wet and put it in the freezer so that he would have something cool to sit on during his ride in june oh so you're an enabler you're an enabler of this behavior i

didn't want him to get hurt in the meantime what are you what you're concerned of heat exhaustion sir i'm gonna just i just need to establish, you seem like a feisty fellow. You do not sound physically particularly frail. But I want to make sure, I want to just check for symptoms of heat stroke, because heat stroke, of course, if your body gets about 104, it may not be able to

dissipate heat off your body and it can be potentially fatal. So, do you have a temperature? What's your current temperature, would you say? Right now it's just normal, 98 thereabouts. Do you have hot red or flush dry skin? No.

Are you having any hallucinations? No. Should I say unusual hallucinations at this time? No. Are you disoriented? No. Are you in a coma? No. Okay, I think I No. Are you in a coma? No. Okay.

I think I have enough to make my decision. I'm going into my chambers and turning the heat up, and I will let you know what I decide in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Olivia, how are you feeling about your chances here not not good I knew going in that the um that there have been previous precedents uh that were definitely in favor of the eccentric father so I knew the odds were against me to begin with it's difficult when the judge himself is an eccentric father but sometimes he does make stunningly surprising rulings. So, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't be so sure about this. Do you, do you have other siblings, Olivia, who can share your worry about your father? Are you carrying all of this yourself? Yes. No, I have a younger brother who,

I don't know if he worries so much, but he does roll his eyes and exasperation a lot. So that's a kind of worry. Mike, you say that you are straight with the law. If the judge rules against you, will you take his injunction? Yes. I agreed to that at the beginning, I think. Generally speaking, do you like

being told what to do? No. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. There was one question that I had intended to ask before I left, and I'll ask it now. Regarding Arizona, and either one of you can take this question, why does anyone live there? You can answer that one. Well, I live here because I have a job here. Okay.

I mean, look. Same here. I've been to, I was just in Flagstaff. No matter what Liz Gilbert said at the top, I've been to Arizona a lot all of a sudden. I was just in Flagstaff. Very beautiful up in the mountains there. 7,000 feet high. Thin air, hot sun, cold nights.

Mia's bar is fantastic. I've been to Tucson. Had an amazing, fun time at the Rialto. We saw you there. Oh, did we meet? No, we didn't meet, but my husband and I went and saw you there. Oh, thank you.

Thank you very much. Excellent show. Well, thank you. We had a very good time. Joe Padgick, the amazing muralist, created that mural behind us as we performed, John Roderick and I, the Hotel Congress, lots of fun up in Flagstaff. I just heard a Tucson band called the Silver Thread Trio. Do you know them? Yes, I have heard of them.

Yeah, they were terrific. And it's all wonderful times, but the impression that I got was people huddled together around air conditioners in order to live. It is a harsh environment. It is a desert

environment. This is something that puzzles me every time I go there, and I'm really, right now, wrestling with whether or not I should just enjoin both of you to move to Park Slope, Brooklyn, the most perfect place on earth, instead of living in this weird Tatooine existence that you have.

But since, since, since I do still believe in freedom of movement in this country and the, and the right to choose whatever crazy place you want to live, I will address the matter at hand. Olivia, your concerns are meaningful to me. I have noticed in Arizona that it can get really hot and that can really hurt people,

particularly if there were to be some emergency where you would get stuck out on the open road or something else were to happen where you needed to cool off very quickly. And to be out in the middle of the desert without any sort of protection from the elements and the extreme heat, that's a that's a scary situation when you move from safford which i take to be a civilized place to tucson which is a a city um there's a lot of nothing in between but olivia i don't sense that uh that mike is particularly a danger to himself

uh he's clearly a danger to others uh if he by weaving back and forth across the road. But in this particular thing, he seems to be of health. He is not in a coma. He is not unable to sweat. He is straight with the law. I think that your concern is primarily trying to bully your father into not embarrassing you so much. And there is – If I may say one thing in my defense.

Go. I have no problem. My father is an expert at embarrassing me. He's turned it into an art form. I can tell. It's not a matter of... It's not as much a matter of that as it might come off. Well, I... I find his embarrassing tendencies to be quite endearing.

Well, here is where I agree with you. I don't think that your father is in a position at the moment such that the law must step in and tell him to air condition his life in that car. to air condition his life in that car any more than the law would step in and ask him to stop attaching Rube Goldbergian heat shields to the car. It's all, it's all, I believe in freedom of movement and I believe in freedom to embarrass yourself. And I believe certainly in freedom of deadly eccentricity. That said, given that there is no issue of hardship involved vis-a-vis having the air conditioning repaired, I think that I feel compelled to order your father to have that air conditioning repaired. since there may be, since you, since you are using the car in an adverse environment and there may be reason or cause that you cannot predict to require that air conditioning in

the future, you do have the choice to, to not turn it on. Of course, you would still enjoy the same savings and the same dadly weird freedom to weave about the road as you see fit. But there would be at least an emergency option that I think is wise in Arizona

in a way that it would not necessarily be wise in Michigan, for example. I would even go so far as to say, sir, that you might just want to kill two birds with one hot stone and maybe invest in a car that is not 13 years old with 200,000 miles on it that would be preloaded with air conditioner, that would be preloaded with air conditioning that functions and therefore would give everyone a little bit more peace of mind

as you travel around trying to escape the law or whatever it is you do in the vast empty wastelands of the Southwest. But that is not a cost that I feel comfortable putting upon you. I would advise you to look into it. I mean, even just to get another weird old car that has only 100,000 miles on it would be perhaps an improvement and get you some air conditioning as well. But absent that, though, I appreciate desperately the things that you are doing to your car and the things that you are, that you are not doing in your car.

And while I am prepared to tolerate cautiously the weaving back and forth in order to gain the advantage of perhaps two or three miles per gallon, I do think that as an emergency measure, in the same way that I would ask you to bring a first aid kit in the car or something like that, as an emergency measure, you should have the air conditioning repaired. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Wow, Mike, that is a staggering ruling.

Did you feel the shock waves that got sent to the courtroom? I did, yes. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. I'm flabbergasted. Do you want an orange icy towel to put on the back of your neck to recover? Yes, I do. From the judge's ruling? So, Mike, what are you going to do? Are you going to repair the air conditioning or are you going to do? You're going to repair the air conditioning or are you going to trade in the 13-year-old car for a nine-year-old car, which is what my dad would do? That sounds like the nine-year-old car sounds like something like that. We'll do something like that.

Seems pretty daring. Let me just jump back in here for a moment, guys, because I've been doing some consideration of this. I want to explain a little bit of my methodology. There is obviously a precedent to favor weird dads in this court. That said, I think, Mike, if I may, you made a terrible error by specifying that it would cost $500 to repair the air conditioner because it's so rare that I get to meet out cash penalties and awards in this course, but I just had to take that bait. But upon very quick reflection, you know,

I don't want to be a nanny state. I don't want to, to, to be the, the, the guy who compels and, and, and obvious eccentric,

misanthropic, weird loner who knows Isaac Asimov books to buy safety equipment that he disdains personally. Therefore, I'm going to order the two of you to split the cost. Okay. That way you both pay. Just a little

bit of redistribution of wealth there from the judge in an election year, no less. A very daring ruling. Olivia, are you going to be more likely to join your dad on some road trips now that he's going to have a cooler vehicle? Yeah. Yes, I would. Are you,

are you not worried about the little bits of plastic that might stick to your trousers? No, I'm not worried about that. Well, we wish you many happy miles together and safe ones too. And Mike and Olivia, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. It was a lot of fun. Thanks.

Good luck, guys. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, let's get straight with the law. Oh, hey, Liz. Sorry, I didn't see you. I was just here in my chambers making a suit out of Ziploc bags and frozen peas for my trip to Fort Green later. You don't just look

cool, you look cool. It's actually, it's not only do I get the benefit of cooling frozen peas, but the massaging action of the tiny orbs relaxes me, and then eventually it becomes hot pea soup,

which I can enjoy. It's kind of my Judge John Hodgman still suit. Judge, I don't want to get too familiar with you because I'm just a bailiff here, but are you breastfeeding? Is that why you're using the frozen peas? No, I'm surprised you can't see this. I have an entire suit made out of large Ziploc bags sewn together full of frozen peas. Oh, I misunderstood. I thought that was furniture. They cool me, and then when they get hot, they provide me sustenance. And with this outfit, I can live in Brooklyn for up to 17 hours.

It's like my own Brooklyn still suit. That's fantastic. And then when things go bad, you can eat it. Well, not the Ziploc bags. Well, when things go very bad, you can eat those. Those I just throw into the sea. That was a fascinating case, Judge Hodgman. It was.

You know, I never felt worse about coming down hard on a dude. But I think that AC is an emergency measure that you need to have. It should be standard in Arizona. That guy wants to drive around Canada. I don't care. I have to say I was really impressed with your scientific knowledge there.

Oh, I know a lot about heating and cooling. But let's clear the docket. Are you an ACNR guy from way back? I'm a little bit of an ACNR guy. Should we do the docket, Judge? I am. I'm a little bit of an ACNR guy. Yep. I like to count the BTUs. Oh, yes, Liz, I am your father. Spoiler alert.

Judge Hodgman is my father. You find out in this series, the Judge John Hodgman podcast. So we've got quite a docket here that needs to be cleared. Should we start to pick it apart? Yes, please. So Ryan writes, I have a dispute with my close friend, Megan. Megan believes that the word retarded should never be used outside of its scientific definition, no matter what the circumstances. The scientific definition of being retarded. Acting dumb. Okay. So let me get my scientific dictionary out and we'll see. I believe that the word can be used to describe people who are

behaving in a retarded way. As long as a, that person isn't actually mentally handicapped and B, there are no handicapped people present at the conversation. Please tell me if she is being dumb or if I am just the R word. Uh, great. She's just being dumb. Now you've insulted mute people as well. Look, I do not choose to use that word. I grew up with a close family friend who has Down syndrome. In general, I think it's a pretty cruel and lazy word to use.

Maybe even as cruel and lazy as a mentally retarded person. That's a terrible joke. I'm sorry. That is a terrible joke. But one joke that I hope reveals that I am not super sensitive. I do not support the banning of words wholesale, so long as you are willing to take responsibility for them. And as you point out, nuance, context, jokiness, subtext, it all counts for a lot. So should you or can you use that word, retarded? Well, your thought experiment is revealing. My feeling, you say that you should be allowed to use it if there are no mentally retarded

people around. I say you should only use that word if you are willing to use it in the presence of a person who actually suffers mental retardation. Otherwise, you don't have the courage of your convictions, and you are simply a coward, which is a much more useful word as it only hurts the person to whom it is aimed. Do you have a suggestion, Judge, for an alternative word that should be used in similar circumstances?

Spastic. One more time? Spastic. That's something that you can treat yourself to, I think, on rare occasions. Or you could say rickety, even though it's offensive to people with rickets. That's a population that has

a powerful voting presence this year. I think you'll be careful with that one, Judge. Fair enough. Remember, you're a political appointee. True. No, if I'm a political appointee, never mind. What's the next one? Next one. Emily writes, my husband gravely dislikes weddings. It's interesting. I wonder how they got married. After being invited to so many last year, he enacted a personal wedding ban. He refuses to attend any wedding. It's fantastic. He refuses to attend any wedding, be it a family member, best friend, colleague.

I still attend many of these functions alone and have to answer the embarrassing question, where's Mark? Sometimes I make up a response and sometimes I tell the truth, which just makes him seem like a cad or a spaz. I think it is unfair that I am left to explain his inane rule for him in his absence over and over again. Should Mark have to attend at least some of these special occasions with me? Here's my ruling.

Mark does not seem like a cad. He is being a cad. That is a weird thing to do. Now, look, people have the right to choose how they spend their time and who they associate with. And I honestly really appreciate people who make really weird, bold choices like I do not ever go out to dinner or I will never learn to drive or I will not ever go to a wedding, even if it is my best friend or my own. But that's the important part. A single person living alone, taking that stance, I have

flawed them. And I admire that kind of devotion to misanthropy. But going to a few undesirable events a couple times a year is part of being married. And would you, I mean, you're the marriage expert, Liz, right? That's part of the the deal isn't it you gotta go at least not to everything but a couple of things that you don't want to go to you have to go to sometimes right weddings are hard are hard ones to get out of unless they're out of the country i think i think i think you kind of do have to go to the weddings i think it's so brash like i think it's so brash to say i don't go to weddings because i hate them it's like saying i don't even i don't even know if i can find something to compare it to it's so brash to say, I don't go to weddings because I hate them. It's like, I don't even know if I can find something to compare it to. It's so brash, I almost admire it.

Well, my husband, Mr. Bailiff, he doesn't go to christenings because he hates children. Of course. And he's terrified of holy water. And he won't look in mirrors. But he loves weddings yeah i mean but but even if you hate weddings being partners with someone means not always but at least some of the time you have to have dinner with someone you don't like or you're gonna have to go to an office party that you don't want to go to or or do something that isn't what you choose to do exactly that moment. And it might be

going to a wedding. And so I think that what he's doing is very provocative, almost to the point of coolness in its weirdness, but in its eccentric, weird dadliness in a sense. But it is unfair of him, as you say, to ask you to answer for his choice and to answer that most embarrassing of questions, where's Mark? Luckily, you've already figured out the most appropriate punishment for him, which is to simply say that Mark is a weirdo who doesn't go to weddings and you don't love that fact and you wish it were not true, but you are there to have a great time and you are having a good time. And I think anyone would appreciate that sentiment and everyone would think very well of you and very

poorly of Mark. And that is the best revenge. You know, they say living well is the best revenge. I think hors d'oeuvres, past hors d'oeuvres and open bars is the best revenge. Could you also just say Mark is in the bathroom? Just keep saying it for year after year? You could say that

Mark suffers, that Mark is a spaz. Mark is a rickety spaz who also suffers from irritable bowel syndrome. And therefore, do you see that port-a-potty over there? He brings that to every wedding and he's going to be in there the entire time. I think for the most part, adults should be allowed to do what they want to do.

But the weddings are hard to get out of. But marriage, unfortunately, is the definition of giving up some of those rights. The opposite of that. John, did you attend your own wedding? I don't remember. I know I was there. I don't remember a lot of it either, but I have photographs. Were you in the bathroom for most of it?

No, I was out on the dance floor, standing, spitefully facing a corner but having a wonderful having a wonderful time with my cocktails and my sword cane and all my friends of course when you're past the hors d'oeuvres i agree mark you know what you that's past past hors d'oeuvres from other weddings that you brought to your own i agree though that mark should start going to weddings and develop a... He needs some intervention so he can do some immersion therapy and go to some weddings and be forced to like them.

And you're right, Emily, you really need to get some help. You're going to too many weddings. This is getting worse. John, what's on the hors d'oeuvre plate there? I have, of course, mini lamb chops, crab cakes, and pigs in blankets. The hors d'oeuvres that come from the hors d'oeuvre plate there? I have, of course, many lamb chops, crab cakes, and pigs in blankets. The hors d'oeuvres that come from every hors d'oeuvre trough in every city.

Fantastic. I'll take a puff pastry if you've got one there, too. Liz, it's been such a pleasure. I like those. Oh, yeah. Here's a puff pastry, sure. It's been such a pleasure having you by as our guest bailiff. This has been just a tremendous pleasure. As you know, I'm a longtime listener by as our guest bailiff. This has been just a tremendous pleasure. As you know, I'm a longtime listener, first-time bailiff. And what a delight it has been to have you here.

And your forthcoming book of fiction is called The Signature of All Things. That is correct. Although I think it should be called The Heat Shields of Mike. All I care is that you put your blurb on the back that says Judge John Hodgman rules. Thumbs up. Sure. Absolutely. I'd be delighted.

And may I mention a couple of things? Sure. The audio book of my last book of Complete World knowledge of that is all is now available on iTunes, Audible and Amazon. The paperback is available and in your favorite paperback bookstores. Jonathan Colton and I are going to be performing depending on when this airs, either in your future or your past. But if November 2nd or 3rd is in your future, I hope you will come see us on our coast to coast of Massachusetts tour. November 2nd in Northam is in your future, I hope you will come see us on our coast-to-coast of Massachusetts tour, November 2nd in

Northampton, Massachusetts, in the western portion of the Massachusetts State Commonwealth, at the Calvin Theater, and then November 3rd at the Wilbur Theater in Boston, the capital of all of Massachusetts. And I also,

if you can't be in Massachusetts, I hope you will go to Tucson, Arizona and go to the Rialto Theater and see my mural on the side of the side of the theater that was painted by Joe Padgett and go listen to the Silver Thread Trio, whom I heard in Flagstaff just the other day. They were really

terrific and I love Arizona and I look forward to all your angry letters talking about how I made that guy pay for stuff that he didn't need. Because Arizona is actually a wonderland of coolness. Which it is. It's just hot. Hot coolness. Hot coolness.

Not unlike this podcast. Exactly so. And I look forward to getting all your letters, Arizonans. Explaining why I completely misunderstand what desert life is all about. And I don't understand the desert ecosystem at all and how I shouldn't have forced that guy to buy something he didn't want because you are all members of the Tea Party. But I do like Arizona a lot. They're actually members of the Minutemen. I think you can be members of both.

I think they probably could be They drink tea on the border Thank you so much I have been your guest bailiff Liz Gilbert Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast The Judge John Hodgman Podcast Is a production of MaximumFun.org Our special thanks to all of the folks

Who donate to support the show And all of our shows At Maxim to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfun.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman.

We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.