Judge John Hodgman - Live From Brooklyn, NY 2016

Episode Date: January 5, 2017

Caution: There are unbleeped swear words that happen during the musical portions of this episode. If you are listening with kids, keep that in mind. "Shut Your Drawer Hole" and "The Most Important Trial of the Day," taped in front of a live audience at one of two live shows in Brooklyn, NY on September 19, 2016 during the Tour of Live Justice! Plus, Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn catch up with Jenny and Erin from Episode 186: The Commune-ish Manifesto and songs from PitchBlak Brass Band! Thank you to Sarahjane Dube and Teddy Hose for suggesting this week's titles! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week's episode was recorded live with a live audience at the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York. We just want to let you know before we get into things that this week's musical guest, the Pitch Black Brass Band, has a little bit of strong language in the songs on the show. In case you're listening with kids and you don't want them to hear it. But seriously, they were really great. Tonight from Brooklyn, shut your drawer hole. Rob brings the case against his girlfriend, Caitlin.

He's tired of her clutter and her tendency to leave drawers open. Caitlin is a student who also works. She wants Rob to cut her a little slack. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise, metaphorically, can decide. Please rise, metaphorically, as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers the obscure cultural reference. In my father's many mansions, on the uppermost floors reside the righteous few who've always closed their dresser drawers. In perdition's lonesome tenements, the damned dwell in their caves where the dresser drawers hang open like freshly ransacked graves.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he does not believe in drawers, preferring satchels?

I do. I do. I do. Very well. Jeff Tatchman? That's absolutely right, Bill, if Jesse Thornton. I don't have a bureau in my bedroom, just a series of sacks. Sacks and hooks, just like the Amish had. I'm not proud.

Rob and Caitlin, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you identify the piece of culture I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Caitlin, you have been brought here against your will by Rob, your husband, is that correct? No, boyfriend. Boyfriend. Boyfriend with whom you live, right? Yes. I'm just making note of that.

live, right? Yes. I'm just making note of that. You have the opportunity to guess first or to make Rob guess first. Which shall it be? I'm gonna make Rob guess first. That is a classic maneuver. Everyone does it. And I mean everyone.

Mix it up next time. Litigants for the second case. But oh, though I prejudge you, I am not prejudiced. I shall take your guess. What is your guess? I'm going to guess Walt Whitman. Walt Whitman of Brooklyn, New York.

Pandering. That's what that is. Local pandering. All right, Caitlin, you've heard your guess. That's in the guest book. What is your guess? It sounded like a Robert Frost poem. Robert Frost poem, because

that's a poet, right? No, it did really sound... I don't really know many poets, but I do know Robert Frost. Sure, exactly right. But it sounded like... It's not my field.

It reminds me just recently, for those of you who follow my Instagram feed, of John Hodgman, because Hodgman was taken by some jerk. I was down at the Faulkner bookstore in Pirate's Alley, New Orleans, and I overheard someone saying, look at that, collected poems of Robert Frost.

I have that. Hey, look at that. Elements of style. I have that, too. The saddest brags of all time. But all guesses are wrong. Judge Hodgman. English 101 syllabus.

Gotta catch them all. All guesses are wrong So when this case was submitted to me You may not know this Rob, but your non-wife Caitlin Beseeched Please, please do not choose lyrics to a Mountain Goats song Because Rob will probably get it. Because, according to Caitlin, Rob, you are an expert. Incorrect.

And judge, to be fair, secondarily also, because over 60% of these are the lyrics of Mountain Goats songs. As is this one. These are lyrics to a Mountain Goats song. As is this one. These are lyrics to a mountain goat song. Rob, can you guess the title of this mountain goat song?

I'm going to go with drawers. All guesses are wrong! Because it has no title. Because when Caitlin said, don't let it be a Mountain Goats song, I texted my friend, John Darnielle, and said, I know you're on tour right now with your band, the Mountain Goats, and are probably very busy,

but would you please write lyrics to a new song that involved open drawers. And John said, I am very busy. I'm not sure if I can get to it. And I said, no problem. I've got a backup in case you need it. An E.B. White quote. Don't worry about it.

But then five minutes later came those lyrics. And then two minutes later came a whole other set of lyrics that I didn't have time to read to you. That's how John Darnielle does it. So, we have to move on and hear this case. Rob, you believe that Caitlin, your non-wife with whom you live, here in Brooklyn? No, Upper West Side, Manhattan.

Upper West Side. Thank you for making the trip, by the way. No problem. Yeah, absolutely. From away, we have Rob and Caitlin. And Rob, you say that Caitlin is too messy and she leaves the drawers open. Is that correct? That's saying the least. Many other things get left open.

I say the least and then you say the most. Let's elaborate, please. Sure. Thank you for taking the cue. No problem. This is a letter he wrote to his mother during the Civil War. Let the record show that Rob has opened a piece of paper that has...

A few ideas for logos for his metal band. It looks a little bit, from my point of view, like something that was found in Kevin Spacey's journal in Seven. But go ahead. We do not grade on penmanship here at the Judge John Hodgman podcast. So Caitlin's not dirty or unhygienic, but she's totally fine with living amongst a lot of clutter and disarray. But the nature of the clutter is very distinct. She just will open

a drawer and not shut it. Open a cabinet and not shut it. Now this is why I wanted to hear this case. Caitlin, is this accusation true? Because if it's true, that's bonkers.

Just so you know where I'm coming from. And I won't recuse myself, because I have been looking for vengeance on this subject since I lived in college with a woman named Theo who left every cupboard open every time. And I kabonked my head into those cupboards all the time. It seems to me a simple part of the social contract

with your furniture that if you open it, you complete the cycle. Do you leave drawers open? And that's my question. Yes.

But it's not on purpose. It's not because I want... Are you saying your thoughtlessness is not on purpose? Yes. Yes. I have a lot happening that tends to distract

me when I'm doing literally anything. And I do close more drawers than I leave open. But... At your house? Or are you going elsewhere and closing other drawers to make up the gap? Generally speaking, yeah. What's going on in your life that's so distracting that you can't close a drawer? Well, I am a full-time student in a...

All right. I'm a full-time student, and I also have two jobs, and I am involved in a lot of political student organizing as well. What is your... A graduate student, I presume? No, so I'm actually a returning undergraduate student because I never did that when I was the right age. You didn't take any college at all?

I did, but I dropped out. There's no such thing as the right age to go to college if, as I do, you believe in a love of lifelong learning. Thank you. Caitlin, I would like to hear a little bit more about your journey. You took

a little bit of college when you graduated from high school, right? Yes. And what college did you matriculate upon? So I will refer to myself as a collector of college credits.

I'm into this. At various different institutions across the Northeast. I started at a place called Albright College in Redding, Pennsylvania. Don't know it. That I stayed there for one semester. Sounds like a scam. It might have been. And then I transferred to Temple University in Philadelphia.

Sure. And I stayed there for one semester. And then I took one class at a community college. And then I took several classes at Ramapo College in Mahwah, New Jersey. Mahwah. One of the great township names of all time. And now I am a student at Columbia University. That sounds fantastic.

Now I am a student at Columbia University. That sounds fantastic. And so to what do you attribute your wandering, your educational wanderings? Did you always have an idea of what you wanted to do, or was your mind changing, or was there another motive? No, it was more just that I wasn't happy at the schools with the academic programs or the really anything about them I didn't like. They're wonderful places. I mean, you weren't happy with Albright College, which was basically a tent in the middle of the field

with some carnies wandering around, taking your chicks. That is very accurate. No offense to any alumni of Albright College. I'm sure it's a fine learning institute. By the way, really good job conjugating alumni. Just now.

I do what I can. Occasionally. And so when you went, just so I can get a sense of your whole journey, when you matriculated at Albright Tent School, your major was probably going to be...

Snake handling. It was going to be... Snake handling. Yes. It was going to be filmmaking. Filmmaking. And now you're at Columbia studying... Politics. Politics. And how far away are you from your undergraduate degree?

I will be finishing in May. Oh, fantastic. Congratulations. Congratulations. And without inquiring too directly towards your age, how long has this journey been from first semester, first year to graduation this year, would you say? It's okay. I'm comfortable with my age. I'm 30 years old. Well done. I will be graduating at 30.

Fantastic. And have you enjoyed yourself up there at Columbia? Oh, yes. I love it there. It's wonderful. And you're also involved with a lot of extracurriculars? Yes, that is correct. And explain what that is to me. So I do a lot of stuff with the political science department. I am the president of just the general major club. I also do a lot of, I'm one of the leaders of the Columbia University Students for Hillary.

and just generally a lot of stuff surrounding civic engagement and student voting and getting involved with local government. Fantastic. And what will you do when you get your bachelor's degree? I don't know. Right.

But if you had an idea, if you had to, I mean, maybe take another 10 years to just sort of drift around for a while. I actually hope to work immediately after graduating. I would love to do something with global development. I'm currently have one of my jobs is in that field. So I really am enjoying that.

And I would like to pursue that. You know that an appearance on the Judge John Hodgman podcast is considered to be a fast track to the Bilderberg group. So get ready to get some calls. I hope your resume is printed out and that your human lizard qualifications are

in order. Very good. Let the record show she attempted to remove her human guise. But these people are not ready for that yet, so I stopped her. So, Rob, you have a fascinating girlfriend. I know. May I ask, what is your educational history? You went to some college for four years and then decided you would work at a website?

That is correct. What is your age, if not 30? 29. You're 29, and you live on the Upper West Side because Caitlin is attending Columbia, or you have work up there? That's right. We live in a campus apartment. Not a dorm, but a work up there? That's right. We live in a campus apartment. Not a dorm, but a

campus-owned apartment. On what street? 114th? I used to live on 104th Street in Columbus. You ever go to Coronet Pizza? Yes. There's no point. I don't need your judgment.

I have a lot of thoughts about Coronet. Coronet Pizza on Broadway and street. I remember it so well. The pizza, each slice of pizza is as large as my bench. Fantastic. Why did he greet that news with a wistful sigh? Because a large slice of pizza does not a good slice of pizza make. I, this court disagrees with you.

There's no good slice in that neighborhood. It's really terrible. He seems like you have a lot of complaints about a lot of things. Mostly food related. Did you attend a four-year university? I did. And what was that, if I may ask?

Emerson College in Boston. Emerson College in Boston. And communications or stand-up comedy? That's a legitimate question. Communications. Communications. And what is your job now? I'm a copywriter.

Copywriter at a company? Yes. All right, good. And may the record also show that you are wearing an old-timey sports hat of some kind. What is the... To me, it's a J and a C.

Is that the baseball team of Jesus Christ? It's the Jersey City Giants. They were a team that existed in the 1950s, and then they were the farm league for the Giants. I can tell you want to talk about this all night, sir.

Great news. So do I. Let's get into it. I have to say it's a very handsome hat. So how long have you guys been living together in university-owned housing? So we've been living in university housing for a little more than two years, but we've been living together in other apartments for about three and a half years. Okay, and Rob, has this always been a problem for you, Caitlin's untidiness?

It's always existed, but it's not really been an issue that affects my life until we moved into this apartment, which is significantly smaller than our previous apartment. And I believe, I'm sorry, go ahead. Rob, could you describe, if I were to walk into your apartment on a typical day, what might I find open, ajar, or askew? It's that great party game. You can pick three people

Open, ajar, or askew Look at your face Open, ajar, or askew Alright, go ahead There's a desk that is To your immediate left as you enter the apartment And usually the cabinet of that Well, not usually, but frequently the cabinet of that

will be open, possibly also the drawers. Kitchen, there might be some drawers open, and also bedroom, there might be some dresser drawers open. Now, Caitlin, there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for all of this. Are you putting away clean sheets, or perhaps looking for a place for a baby to sleep in a circa 1910 tenement?

Frequently, I will open a drawer and I'll leave it open because I will be needing to go back to it multiple times. And it seems like. And once it's closed, that's the end of that. Well, it seems like excess work. It's more, it's more effort to like, if you're going to be going in and out of it, you leave it open. And then frequently... You're doing like a reverse Fitbit thing, where you're trying to minimize your steps.

Yes. And then frequently I get pulled away from whatever the task that I'm doing, either because something is demanding my time or it's because I get distracted with something else that I have to do. You're too busy. You're too busy to close a drawer. I got it. Okay, Rob. I'm too busy to remember to close the drawer. I understand.

Rob, you have some evidence that you want to present to the court? Sure. Visual evidence? I submitted it, yes. Or have it with me. Bailiff Jesse, let's see the evidence. We'll enter this as Exhibit A. It's going to come up on the screen behind me.

And I'm not going to bother to turn around until I know that it's up there. Is it up there, you guys? Thank you very much. I'm just trying to minimize my steps. You could have known that it was up there by the disturbed gasp that just came out of the audience. Okay, what I see here are some ripped up envelopes

on top of a butcher block counter. What are we seeing, Rob? It's actually on the floor. Oh, the floor, excuse me. I'm sorry. In my house, I keep a oriental rug on top of our counters. I should preface and say that in anticipation of the podcast,

Caitlin seemed to try to minimize the clutter, but I still found a lot of stuff leading up to it. Oh, so this is post-minimalization. That's right. I see. Very well. Let's see the next slide, please. So this is a water bottle that's been there for about a week. And by there, you mean where?

It's on our bathroom sink. Right in, like, prime elbow knocking over space. Right. And prime water bottle space, of course. In anyone's home. You also managed to sneak in some buzz marketing for Meyers Clean Day and Waterpik. And reach toothbrushes. Alright.

So how come that water bottle's there all the time? Before we look at the next slide, can I just indicate that in this apartment they have six toothbrushes? Is that... You know what? I appreciate your careful eye, Bill and Jesse. Forget about the water bottle. Why do you guys have so many toothbrushes?

Hold on. Hold on. Time out. Six manual toothbrushes and two electric toothbrushes. And one water pick. Answer, what is the reason for that? I honestly don't know. Have you ever...

We have very good dental hygiene. How many... Caitlin, how many times a day do you brush your teeth? Like two or three. Two or... Now, all right, now you said the socially acceptable answer. What is the actual answer? No, really, probably three.

Okay. And why do you have so many toothbrushes and electric and all that kind of stuff? Well, one of them, the blue one up front is my travel toothbrush that I'll bring with me. Trappy tooth. And then the other ones ones I'm not sure. I have a theory. Go on. I think we just have

left a bunch of toothbrushes there that we've used in the past because we think it looks cooler in that little rack right there. You're right, it does look pretty cool. Next slide, please. If anybody here... If anybody here works for Dwell

Magazine, call us after and we'll hook you up with that toothbrush picture. So here we have a set of drawers. Not only are they open, but they're open in an almost Aztec step pyramid array. Is this your tribute to Chichen Itza?

What's going on here, Caitlin? Mornings are difficult for me. So when I'm getting ready, I usually will wear more than one outfit before I leave the house. And this is the byproduct of that. In what way? Wait a minute, you wear more than one outfit before I leave the house and this is the byproduct of that in what way you wear more than what you try on a bunch of outfits yes okay how many on balance as many as toothbrushing sessions I would say two or three yeah Next slide.

Whoa. Now here we see what I can only describe as a cold cream cairn. Three bottles of moisturizer stacked on top of each other. And then another electric toothbrush trying to stay incognito behind them. So I'm not an electric toothbrush. I'm just a tall thing in a pink hat.

Well, how could I be a toothbrush? I'm standing behind this tower of cold cream with a wadded-up piece of Kleenex at my feet. I certainly wouldn't be a toothbrush. Next slide, please. Now we come to the pizza box, Karen. Rob, you're incapable of picking this stuff up. I'm very capable.

In fact, I picked it up right after I took the photo. Do you have any... I mean, you're a student. And Rob, you have some job or whatever it is. I presume you don't have someone helping out with the cleaning around the house at this time in your lives. We've gotten, we've paid for cleaning services here and there

maybe twice in this apartment. But each time they've refused to return. Okay, how many more slides do we have? I'm not sure. That was it. Alright, good. Somehow I knew. So what would you have me order if I were to find in your favor, Rob? I would order that Caitlin becomes more diligent

about picking up after herself because a lot of this stuff can be remedied in less than 10 seconds. I would also maybe order more of a deeper dive into organization via maybe some learnings from the life-changing magic of tidying up or other such literature. How many copies of that book do you have at your house? There's one at the moment.

Five of them stacked on top of each other with a toothbrush hiding behind it. Rob, Caitlin, I don't want to be personal, but do you think that you will continue cohabiting for much longer in your lives? Absolutely. And maybe

moving towards a legal partnership called marriage? Certainly. And have you proposed? No. And have you proposed? No. And is this kind of an ultimatum? No. No.

All right. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. Please rise. I'm going to go into my chambers and take a little nap on my nest of toothbrushes, and I'll be back in a moment to give you my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Rob, how do you feel living in a house like this?

I feel, most of the time time baseline, fantastic. Love Caitlin very, very much. But sometimes it does add some stress to my life. Caitlin, I guess the part that I'm not understanding here, and I hope that you can help me, is the physical process of taking something out of a cabinet while leaving the cabinet open. So I'm going to mime something, and I want you to tell me where I've gone wrong.

So I'm reaching to the cabinet. I'm going to get a glass for a glass of water. I'm reaching to the cabinet. I've grasped the handle now. Are we all clear? Mm-hmm. Samesies? Yes.

Okay. I'm drawing it open. 100% the same? Gotcha. I'm reaching in to grab a glass. Yes. I've the same? Gotcha. I'm reaching in to grab a glass. Yes. I've pulled the glass out. This is where you're going

to go wrong. Because if the cabinet stays open, something has happened to pull you away from the cabinet to distract you from the action. My head's still on the cabinet! My head hasn't left the cabinet, Caitlin.

What's that? The phone rang. I have to register some voters? Let the audio record show that in each case as I turned around, I closed the cabinet. Almost effortlessly. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this. Please rise, metaphorically, as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Caitlin, I admire greatly your journey and your commitment to not committing to one course of study or another

until you really knew what you wanted to do. And I admire the fact that you took your time and figured it out. And then, obviously, when you were ready to return and be graduated from college, you aspired to and reached arguably the highest level, to go to an Ivy League university here in New York City. You did a good job, and I think you're going to continue to do good jobs in the future. And I don't doubt that you are super-duper busy,

and you've got a lot on your mind that is more important than clothes and drawers. That is a small, petty thing that only someone who went straight through college and got a job would care about. And, you know, of course, the court advises against cohabitation before marriage largely for this reason. Living together, and look, it's not a moral issue, you know what I mean?

Living together is a super drag. Living together requires a tremendous amount of accommodation of other humans that none of us wants to make. You have to suddenly be, you have to merge your own, your different standards of cleanliness. You have to merge your sleep schedules into one disgusting fart-filled bed. You have to merge, essentially merge your finances because all of a sudden you have to buy groceries together and pay bills together and you get to enjoy the terrible financial partnership of marriage without any of the legal protections. This is all a matter of record on the podcast. Obviously you haven't looked it up. And you have to merge your habits of leaving pizza boxes in front of the refrigerator versus cleaning them up and this is frustrating because what ends up happening is that the person

who is more tidy ends up managing the environment more and resenting the other person and i wouldn't i would be lying to you if i didn't say I had some personal experience with this. Because indeed, I married a person whose standards of tidiness are not my own. And it has been a lifelong struggle. And I love that person very much. But shoes belong in the closet. But the record shows that Caitlin has never heard of shoes going into a closet before in her life. What concerns me more than even the unclosed drawers is the incredible number of toothbrushes in your home.

You can speak, Caitlin. You can jump in there if you need to. Are you saying that's robbed? That's all Rob? I do believe, yes, they are all Rob's. One of them is mine. One of them is yours and the rest are Rob's? Yes. I'll be honest.

I didn't even realize those were there. So that's maybe something I need to work on. I think you both need to work on things. Insofar as the subject of this suit, I am ordering you, Caitlin, to close drawers. And that is a basic part of humanity that I think you need to embrace. But I will say for both of you,

it is time to read the everyday magic of tidying up and touch each one of those toothbrushes and determine whether it sparks joy or not. Whether or not you have different standards of tidiness, neither of you deserves to live amid garbage on the floor or wadded up toilet paper or tissue paper underneath piles of pond cold cream on the counter. Go ahead, Caitlin, go ahead. Well, there's not a lot of garbage. Those photos were selectively taken. Yeah, he took pictures of the garbage.

Yes. But that is a very unusual situation. It's usually not, you know, usually it's books that he complains about. It's like books and notebooks. The weird thing about clutter is that you don't see it. It becomes something that you don't notice anymore the more you live with it. And even Rob didn't realize, oh my god, I got 45 toothbrushes in this house. Like the more you get used to it, the more you don't see it. But I think

that in my opinion, it still affects you and your state of mind. And when you leave things around on the floor and you leave drawers open and you leave your whole world in disarray, the more you are inclined to feel like my whole life is in disarray, the more you are inclined to feel like my whole life is in disarray. I don't have time to close these drawers. I think it's a feedback loop. I think it will be easier in your lives, although I'm not sure that you will ever have the exact same standards of tidiness, if you close those drawers and, Rob, you got rid of some of those toothbrushes. If you got a little less of that visual clutter out of your lives, I don't think this would be as much as a conflict. So insofar as the suit was against Caitlin for not shutting

drawers, I do find in Rob's favor, but you've got to get rid of some toothbrushes. Decompost, you guys. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman will talk about it. Ladies and gentlemen, Rob and Caitlin. Thank you, Robin and Caitlin. You know, Judge Hodgman. Yes. It's not just us on this show. We also have a very able musical guest. And I had a conversation backstage with one of the members of the band.

He said, well, what kind of songs would you like us to play on the show tonight? Right. I'm always glad to help. I said, look, play what you love to play and just know that if you want to play something sweet and tender, don't feel like it's out of place in the context of a comedy show. Our audience is a thoughtful, caring audience.

They're going to love it no matter what it is. Right. And he said, okay, cool. Usually we just go hard. And I was like, all right then. Ladies and gentlemen, you are about to find out that Pitch Black Brass Band does go hard. You have seen them on the Chris Gethard Show,

Summer Stage, Lincoln Center, all over Brooklyn, and right now you're going to hear them on this very stage. Please put your hands together for the Pitch Black Brass Band. All right, we're going to do something kind of chill and vibey, and then we're going to rock it out. Are you ready? All right, Brooklyn, let's do it. Yes.

Those trombones, though. Yes. Rah, rah. Ра-ра Thank you. Let me see some handclaps, come on! Come on, Brooklyn! Let's get it! guitar solo All right. To everybody who smokes, I want you to put one finger in the air like so. You're not smokes?

Okay. How y'all doing out here today? Come on. Make some noise if y'all wanna join the show. What's going on? This is the 420, son. For a big song. If you feel small,

blow it up. Blunt splits. Take it for a rip. Make some noise. We're quick. Ha! Yeah! We can build it. Yeah. Ha. Yeah. You just made me feel like a grass plant. We in the building. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I need y'all real quick. Yeah. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce.

Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce. Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam!

Alright, time to let it go to shit! We're not ready for this! Yup! Yup! Yup! I'm right! But it's the side of things! You're not a woman! No matter what your life is! You're not a woman!

You're not a woman! You're not a woman! You're not a woman! You're not a woman! You're not a woman! But it's the side of things! She likes it, she likes to fight She's got the punch, she's got the punch So stop running, stop running If you got a woman, move out She likes it, she likes to fight She's got the punch, she's got the punch Get up, up and walk

I'm a black dress blowing in the street So think I'm deep down, just for my medicine I'm a kid, so let it all sit in The fame, to the end, keep it in my room I don't keep them, just want my medicine I begin to let it all sit in Defend to the end, keep it in my room Turn my attention, get it on, fuck it with a bracelet I love knives, get your first lesson Get a sex toy, busy fuck, break this down, roll it up

Your spike on full tip, walk with a stroke Screw it up, get up, fuck it, get it up Tear up, eat it, throw it, yeah I'm a fucking beast deal Turn up, you can throw it It's not a hard call You can be a fool That's all you need When you're right You're on the run Don't let you get on your phone

I'm a terrible human being Tell you that I'm broken and cracked I'm not okay, I'm a fucking I'm gonna write a double stack I'm gonna act by the pass I was just a power punch Power of the sky So write, write what's out there

You gotta roll us and pull out your license We like to run, we preach it to the front, even get you high, feel like you're the best So right, right beside us here, we gotta roll up and pull out your license We like to run, we preach it to the front, even get you high, feel like you're the best So right, right beside us here, we gotta roll up and push you high, I'm gonna get you out I'm gonna get you out, I'm gonna get you out All the things, how's it work? Like you ain't got no title shot You don't have to, I'm gonna get you out I'm gonna get you out, I'm gonna get you out

I'm gonna get you out And when people wanna understand They think it ain't fair, we said, you're not supposed to be I said, I'll be your man I understand your respect, I'm not being candid I got it through the way you do it I love the planet so, so I sit there Enjoy my predatory destiny

These old folks, they just want to get the stick Your mother, she wants to be Folks in that gang, we slick Folks are in endless fatigue, but we perpetually We're all best kids, I'm working for your boss Go hide it in the shadows, be a woman Ain't no dog, bitch, you're less than a woman But we need top dishes to start

Red truth pours out from the heart That's it as a star Very true for a star from the heart That's his style The riot, right beside the king You gotta hold on and pull out your anger He's like a fire, he's vicious and not a fire He's the engine of life, he's like a survivor The riot, right beside the king You gotta hold on and pull out your anger

Take him like a thunder He's vicious and not a fire He's vicious and not a fire We got a whole lot of people now she's out here Take it like a thug, and keep it to the point We got a whole lot of people now, we got a whole lot of people now We got a whole lot of people now, we got a whole lot of people now We got a thug, we got a whole lot of people now We got a thug, we got a whole lot of people now We got a thug, we got a whole lot of people now We got a thug, we got a whole lot of people now

We got a thug, we got a whole lot of people now We got a thug, we got a whole lot of people now What's up? It's the Black Brass Band. We're out here fighting. Let's fight. We're out here fighting. It's the Black Brass Band. What's going on? It's the Black Brass Band. It's the Black Brass Band. Yeah, I'm scared for a second. Whoa!

Ladies and gentlemen, the Pitch Black Brass Band. That's Max, Elena, CJ, Brian, Chanel, Ashley, Ben, Brian, Allison. You're a Pitch Black Brass Band of Brooklyn, New York. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network,

boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to maximumfund.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible,

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Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need.

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remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in made in save up to 25% this Memorial day from the 18th until the 27th, visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Shall we get on with the cases, Judge Hodgman? We have some friends of the show here tonight. Oh my goodness gracious, yes. Let's see, Judge Hodgman, do you remember episode 186, the Commune-ish manifesto? Yes, I believe that featured Jenny and Aaron. Yeah, why don't we bring Jenny and Aaron up to the stage and see how they're doing.

Jenny and Aaron, ladies and gentlemen. Jenny and Aaron, you live in a communal living situation. Is that correct? Yes, we do. You both have husbands. We do. And you both have children. No, only Aaron does.

Only Aaron has children. Jenny shares mine. Right. Okay. So you share the children. Yes. No, we don't. Sure. You share everything. No, no, just the children. You share everything in the commune. Do you share your gorp and textured soy protein? Definitely. Okay, and where is the commune again? New Jersey. New Jersey. And what it is, is it's a house. It's a house. And you're two married couples who are sharing resources,

but for a while, if I remember correctly, you were a little self-conscious about explaining this to the casual acquaintances in your life, and so you lied, right? Aaron lied. Aaron lied. Aaron would say what? What was your lie? That she was my sister or I really didn't know what to say. Or my kid's aunt. Right.

You told different lies because you wanted to be caught. Yes. And sometimes I pretended I didn't know her. So you go to school and say, Jenny is my sister or she's my mother or is my sister, or she's my mother, or she's my sister, or she's my mother. Forget it, school system. It's New Jersey. I never called her my mother.

People just assumed. Commune is over. Throwing shade is a part of your communal lifestyle? When one of you burns another do you guys both take care of the burns yeah we share the aloe right all right share the aloe uh and i ruled that you should stop lying and own your own truth and is that what happened that's exactly what happened erin did a wonderful job. The other day she was telling a mom that she met at school that I was her friend, but then she said, and she was going to homeschool my kid for a while,

so then we sounded weird again. She was so close. Were you going to homeschool Erin's kids? Yes, that was on the table, one of the kids. She started, she just quit. Is that so? Where is the aloe? Yes. Because she enrolled him in school.

Oh, okay. She wasn't very good. Jenny, I don't remember. I'm sorry. Oh, man. Not just aloe, we're going to need all kinds of unguents. This is how Jonestown started. In any case, you are now living in the light of truth, as Father Hodgman told you to do.

Absolutely, sir. I have not received an invitation to come and wear robes and teach you. It's in the mail? Okay. You know that I refuse to receive mail. Oh, that's what happened. That's how they get my thoughts. But now things are more or less in order, even though there's a consistent burn rate between the two of you.

The commune is in balance, and you're telling the truth, and you're not lying about your situation. Absolutely. Have there been incidents? Have there been situations where the truth led to difficult circumstances? Have you had to explain yourself? We don't do that very often. We just let it lay. You don't talk to others?

No one will talk to us. Yeah, the judge last time said, you don't have friends in New Jersey and you never will, and that's true. Yeah, no one will talk to us. Whoever that judge was, a very wise man. It's worked out well.

They said that Jenny can volunteer at school and her husband can volunteer for the Boy Scouts if they want to, but they don't. But anyway, yeah, everyone... Was that in question, honestly? Because of your unusual living arrangement? Or did you just fear that it was in question?

Yeah, we feared it, but it wasn't necessarily in question. It was not an issue. Are the two of you still lady Rotarians? No, Aaron did try to join various... Well, a pyramid scheme and then some strange clubs, but... We're not Rotary members. Aaron, what pyramid scheme did you... What pyramid scheme was it that would not have you?

You're like, you know what? Never mind, we don't want your money. You're in a commune, no thank you. It was related to essential oils, so yeah. Go on. I knew within like 24 hours I should not have done it, but I did it. But what is it that you did? I

paid them. You what? Like I bought into the scheme. You bought into the essential oils distribution scheme? And then I'm supposed to sell it to someone else and they sell it to someone else and they sell it to someone else. I have not sold it to anyone. I realize I'm a thief. But will you be available between shows this evening?

Yeah. Jenny, as the obviously more mature sister wife, why didn't you stop Erin? I did. I tried to stop her. I told her not to do it

and she didn't listen and she's her own person. How did you even, this is, how does this come, how does this happen that you're like, this is a good idea.

I'm going to sell essential oils. Did you answer an ad in the back of Grit magazine? What's going on? Well, I hadn't really fully embraced your statement that we don't have friends and we never will. So someone approached you.

Yeah. Who approached you? Some mom at the library. Her kid was crying. And then, you know, she's like, oh, you can put this on your kid and they'll sleep better at night. I can't put it on my kids. I bought it and i can't put it on my kids i really i really want to see a 13 episode drama on hulu about your weird your weird township yeah i feel like this could be the next the slap all right but at least now that the pyramid scheme is over and the lying is stopped, you guys are in balance.

Are there any other disputes that I can solve? I have one quick one that Erin is still upset about from last December. Her husband and I went to a holiday party together. Uh-huh. Makes total sense, right? Wait a minute. Her husband and you went to a party together. Right.

Right. And they had gift bags. You guys made out a little bit. No. Why did you go? I'm just kidding. No, we did not, sir. Why did you go to a holiday party with Aaron's husband?

Well, Aaron couldn't go. She was babysitting the kids. They were sick. And my husband had to work. So he was the last person available. I see. So while her kids were sick with fever, like, well, your husband and I are going to go...

Where was the party? In Greenwich Village. Is that a real place? Yes, right? Okay. Well, I've seen it in movies. Your husband... I'm going to go see the big city for the first time. Your husband is taking me.

It was a vodka party. He tells me that we're allowed to celebrate Christmas this year. All right, so what happened? Aside from the swingers aspect of this, what happened? So we went to the party and it was one of those fancier parties and they had gift bags.

Oh. And so it was a vodka party and we had too much vodka. It was a vodka party. It was. It was sponsored by a vodka company. We had too much vodka and we forgot to get the gift bag. When we got home...

And by gift bag, you mean the bag was glass and was full of vodka? Probably. When we got home, Aaron had already researched the party online and knew there were gift bags. It's the saddest thing in the world. Exactly. She's just, all you hear in the house is click, click. With a single tear.

Click, click. I thought for sure they were coming home with all kinds of great stuff to give to me. Sure. To contribute to the family hoard. Yes. Erin loves free stuff. And free alcohol. And so we came home, we forgot the gift bags, and she's still upset about it. Yeah, right. Yes. Erin loves free stuff. And free alcohol.

And so we came home. We forgot the gift bags. And she's still upset about it. She's so mad about it. She's looked at it. She shows us pictures of other people enjoying the things from the gift bags. Like, I'm sorry. What was in the gift bag, Erin, since you researched it?

Socks. And a sweater. And like a hat. And a sweater and a hat and vodka. I feel like Erin's weird obsession saved a social media manager's job. It was the only likes. The fact that Erin researched the gift bag and knows that it contained at least socks, and probably, although she doesn't want to admit it right now, knows every other item that was in the gift bag. Absolutely. To me, I think suggests a level of care that needs to be rewarded.

You took her husband to Greenwich Village for a gin party. Excuse me, a vodka party. For, let's be honest, an episode of Mad Men. That's right. You have to go into your own private savings. Do your husbands allow you to keep some money for yourself? They do.

We keep it all. You keep a little behind the wall? All right, go into your coffee can, and you have to replicate that gift bag for your sister-wife, Erin. This is the sound of a gavel. Jenny and Erin, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage, Charlie and Liza. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Hodgman and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice

but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Tonight, the most important trial of the day.

Charlie brings the case against his girlfriend, Liza. He works overnights as a writer and wakes up later in the day than she does. They often disagree about what can be considered breakfast since he eats his breakfast during her lunch. Charlie thinks his schedule and meal names should be taken seriously. Liza thinks he should keep in mind the time of day when naming his meals. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers the obscure cultural reference. I cook about 90 dozen eggs every Saturday and every Sunday, and I enjoy cooking them each time I do it. I like cracking the eggs into a bowl. I like breaking the yolks and whisking them with cream for

scrambled eggs. I like watching the ripples form as they cook, and I like the process of gently running my fork through cooked eggs as they create space for the raw egg to get into the pan. When I'm making fried eggs and sunnies, I like hitting the butter into the pan. I like sliding the eggs into the butter.

There's nothing else I'd rather be doing. I don't come to the task from a place of drudgery or boredom. I come to it from a place of curiosity and love. To be a good cook, you have to. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear the myth. Raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he eats only fourth meal? I do. I definitely do. Very well. Judge Hodgman?

Lies in Charlie for an immediate judgment, in one of yours favors, can either of you identify the piece of culture I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Liza, you are brought here against your will. Can you name it for me? It sounds like something Charlie would write, actually. I will guess... Will you guess first? You actually can guess second if you want.

You can force Charlie to guess first. I'll guess first. Oh, nice. I like that. Well done. I'll guess Melissa Waters, maybe? Melissa Waters, a food writer. Yeah.

Correct? All right. Charlie? Is it Michael Ruhman, the cookbook Eggs, maybe? Michael Ruhman? Ruhman. I don't know. But the cookbook is Eggs? Yeah.

All right. Let's put both of those into the guest book and scramble them up. Let me take a look at them. Now they're all dripping with eggs. Disgusting. But all guesses are wrong. I was quoting from a different cookbook. The cookbook is called Eat Me by Kenny Shopson of Shopson's General Store

and the father of Tamara Shopson, who designed one of the T-shirts in the T-shirt club, who loves cooking eggs and does a really good job of it. And now we have to talk about your penchant for eating breakfast at all hours of the day and night and lunch in the antipodes. So what's happening with you, Charlie? Why are you eating breakfast at lunchtime? So I work nights, so when I wake up in the antipodes. So what's happening with you, Charlie? Why are you eating breakfast at lunchtime? So I work nights, so when I wake up

in the morning, but it's actually around 2 p.m. is when I eat breakfast. And then I follow that meal at an appropriate interval with another meal that I call lunch. And my final meal of the day, I call dinner. And when is that usually consumed? It gets a little

bit confusing because working nights is... I tend to eat dinner around dinner time, even though that's confusing, but it's more lunch and breakfast to get this strange time. And when you say you work nights, you're a night watchman, or you work in a mine, or an overnight job in a hospital, or what? I do the night shift for a news website. Oh, okay. So you're a writer at nights. And so you gather news?

Yes, yeah. And so you work from when to when? It varies. Nine is when I start, usually until about three, sometimes four. This is a terrible existence that you're leading. Is this what you want in your life? I want parts of that, not the time. I would prefer to do what I'm doing now in the day for more money and longer hours. Oh. What a strange request. And how long have

you been together? Eight years. Uh-huh. Eight years considering that you've never slept? Yeah, right. Yeah. All right. And Liza, what's your problem with his nomenclature about his meals? Well, so it's not so much of an issue if it's us having a meal. The issue comes into play if we're trying to organize something with other people. So we'll call our friends and say, well... No, he works from 9 p.m. to 3 a.m.

There are no other people in his life. It's becoming that way. Just because you name a squirrel doesn't make it a person. Right. So we'll call a friend at 2 o'clock on a Saturday, and Charlie will say, hey, do you want to go out for breakfast? I'll say, what do you mean? No, I just had lunch. That ship has sailed. So it's difficult to make plans.

Because the ships are always sailing. How long has this been part of your, this schedule been part of your life, Charlie? To varying degrees for a long time. I've been doing this job job for nine months but earlier jobs I've done have also been night and before that even I did nightlife and food and wine writing so even then I'd be doing events in the evening. I'm a night, I've been always been a night person even without the job. It says so right on your resume. Right. But you can't hire this guy for daytime. Right, yeah. So in your relationship, how long has this gone on? Oh, wow. Well, a big chunk of our relationship was like this because I was in Hong Kong and she was here.

So actually it was... Then it doesn't matter what you call your meal. No, it doesn't. Because you weren't together. Right, yeah. Right. But yeah, so for about nine months, maybe probably push it to about a year, maybe. So why don't you just say when you wake up at 2 p.m. on a Saturday and you call a friend,

why don't you just say, do you want to get something to eat? Well, I mean, that's practically what I do for the most part. It's when I say breakfast, because that comes naturally to me and becomes an issue that I feel. It's wrapped up in other things. It's like... What does it unwrap then? It marginalizes my existence. Just because I work at night doesn't mean, you know,

it's not a job and my first meal is breakfast. It means you're a weird troglodyte. Yeah, right, exactly. Who doesn't participate in real life. So you're saying as a matter of personal respect, people should call lunch breakfast. No, people should allow... Charlie, do you sincerely believe that mole men and humans are equal?

To a point, yes. In terms of eating, yes. Liza, what do you do? I'm a student. A student of what? Of business administration. Weird creatures? Nighttime creatures? At the nighttime, yes. Sorry, you're a student of what now? I study business at NYU.

At NYU. And you guys live in whereabouts? In Fort Greene. In Fort Greene, Brooklyn? Yes. There's a lot of great breakfast for lunch places around there. Yeah, there really are. And has this always been a problem, Liza?

Off and on. So I think it's kind of been an issue throughout his life. I submitted an affidavit from his mother who would attest to this being an ongoing issue. Do we have that affidavit here handy? I hope not. No. Can you testify to the contents of that affidavit? It was basically her saying it's been frustrating her for many years.

It was basically her saying it's been frustrating her for many years. And she can't always conform to Charlie's theories of time. Is it more an issue of what the meal is called or when Charlie wants to eat foods? That's a great question. I know. He's a professional. I only ask the great question. I know. He's a professional, man. I only ask the great ones. So for me, honestly, probably the larger issue is he'll eat, quote unquote, breakfast at 2 o'clock and then want to have a lunch at 4 before we have dinner at 7.

So it's a meal spacing issue for me more than a nomenclature problem. But for him, it's more of a pedantic, I want to be able to call this breakfast because it is literally my breakfast. Okay, walk me through your day, Charlie, or your night, I don't know what day it is. My twilight. Your day, night, whatever, your schedule. So you're up until 3 a.m. Yeah, let's say 3.

Gathering and disseminating news on the internet. Right. And then, where are you working? on the couch of my apartment the couch of your apartment and then you go to bed so then I maybe give myself an hour of television watching what do you watch at that time?

yesterday bored to death to be totally honest well chosen that doesn't help me now, but thank you. Perhaps with your mastery of space and time, you could... Alright, and then you fall asleep on the couch.

I try not to. But it usually happens. Yes, I try to go to bed, and I always try to set my alarm for eight hours from when I go to sleep. So that would be like four in the morning. So let's say four in the morning until noon in this case. Right, and then you get up and eat breakfast. I get up, and if she's not at school, we'll maybe go out to a meal. If not, I'll just cook.

Let's just say in your world. I'll get up and cook breakfast. Right, and breakfast for you is a three-course turkey dinner. Right. Maybe like eggs and sausage. I huh. Pretty traditional breakfast eater. Uh, and then we eat lunch maybe three to three and a half hours later from that point, maybe a little bit longer than that. And then dinner. And then dinner comes as late as I can get Liza to eat dinner with me. Which is your ideal world? Nine would be great. Actually, eight. That way I could start work at nine.

I see. Okay. But you eat traditional breakfast, lunch, and dinner foods? That's not the problem? Not as a rule, but typically, yeah. So you eat... So you make her eat lunch at 3.30. I don't make her.

Then she eats lunch of her own choice each day in between breakfast and dinner at 3.30. Then you have dinner together at 9. Then you work without eating for seven hours. I'll snack a little. is it like six almonds like President Obama I tried to do a traditional dinner you know whatever it would be five hours kind of in between meals

and even though I'm used to this schedule by now eating a meal at midnight or so I can never feel hungry it doesn't feel right it doesn't work for me, and I've tried. And so this is what works for my appetites, I've discovered. Do you feel respected by your girlfriend?

In almost everything, except for when I say, would you like to get breakfast? And she corrects me. That's pretty much it. Or lunch. Liza, Liza, do you think that

if I were to order Charlie to call breakfast lunch and to call lunch dinner and to call his dinner something he eats after you've gone to bed and change that nomenclature and standardize that, that it would in any way address the obvious systematic problems that you guys have between your two schedules? No, not at all.

I think my request is actually much simpler. If he wants to call it that at home while he's cooking, that's fine. It's more making plans with other people that are generally more on my schedule. You don't want him to force his sick worldview on other people. That's right. I've come to accept it, you know, as part of the deal. I believe in your right to live your life

the way you want to live it. You just don't have to be up on my face all the time about it. Or trying to explain it to other people constantly. Well, that sounds boring. Yeah, it gets redundant. Charlie, a quick point of clarification. Are you able to walk safely amongst men?

Yes. Even when the sun is out? Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. What steps are you taking since you are a day walker? What steps are you taking

to avoid Blade? A lot of mirrors. I have a lot of mirrors in my house. Are you... You always keep a copy of the tax filing papers. It seems to me like your schedules are a little bit untenable and that the out-of-syncness that they experience is just going to increase and increase and increase until it is unstable. Yeah, this is kind of what happens.

So I brought this as a basic kind of language. I thought this would be an easy, like literal case to rule about what the definition of breakfast is. As soon as I even brought this up... The definition of breakfast is bacon and eggs. That's all you need to know. Get out of here. Give me my gavel. Anytime you have it.

Breakfast for dinner, that's breakfast. Breakfast for lunch, breakfast. Bacon and eggs for snack, breakfast. So nobody wins here. I made that ruling on the way over here without meeting you. Not about the name. Originally it was about the name for me, and then as soon as I brought it up... I made that ruling on the way over here without meeting you. Not about the name. Right. Originally, it was about the name for me.

And then as soon as this became an issue, I discussed with my loved ones and friends. It turned out that my schedule was bringing up a lot of emotional reactions with people who are close to me that got wrapped up in this calling meals by certain names. Yeah. And so it's transformed into a bigger kind of verdict on my entire lifestyle, which

is not my original intent here. Liza, when do you wake up in the morning? Around 7.30, usually. And you go to NYU? Yeah, occasionally. And then your workday ends at about 11.30 in the morning. Well, for instance, today it started at 1.30. Then you go to the malt shop for a little while, and you hit the books at the library.

Something like that. We should explain that Judge Hodgman went to college in Riverdale. When do you go to bed at night? 11, midnight. Right, and that's just when he's starting to get going on work, right? Yeah. So how much time do you guys actually get to experience together in a day? So, for instance, today I had class from 1.30 to 4,

so 4.30 to, well, look, we're together right now. Who knows how many weird meals he had during that period of time. Yeah, I don't ask these kinds of questions. That's fair. Are you happy, Charlie, with the way your life is organized? Oh, that's quite a question. Yes. I'm happy now.

I understand that it is not a long-term, not tenable in a long-term way. But yes, I'm happy at the moment. It seems to have taken a toll on you. Yeah, I'm tired. I mean, you're hunched over. I'm tired. That's true. All the time.

Yeah, you seem tired. Your eyes are a little sunken. Yeah. You're holding a ring in one hand and constantly stroking it and calling it precious. But I'm doing fine. I'm okay.

How many of your meals are raw fish that you pull out of an underground pool? Quite a few. Are you making an effort to make your schedule more daytime-oriented? Yes, I was supposed to have a meeting about that today. But you canceled it to be here. No, it's not my fault.

Did you oversleep? Apparently the way the industry works is they postpone meetings like this when you want to work in the daytime for more hours over and over again. I don't know what... Wait a minute. Are you telling me that being a journalist is a hard way to make a living? Stop the presses. My fear...

But I am being active and making a change in my life. Apparently, this is what... I just want to be clear with what you said. Apparently, when you make a meeting in order to explore working during the daytime, they just routinely cancel it. I'm like, someone's playing a trick on you. Yes. We all work in the daytime.

It's actually very common. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I feel you've been working nights for so long that there's someone gaslighting you. You go like, no, you know, there are no daytime jobs. I feel that way myself. You apply for one. They just cancel it. So, gosh, I'm sorry, but you have to stay are no daytime jobs. I feel that way myself. Every time you apply for one, they just cancel it. So, gosh, I'm sorry, but you have

to stay up all night again. That's pretty close. Somewhere in the main office, there's a guy named Biff who's like, hey, Frank, the mole man just tried to get another meeting. Yeah, right. No, I'm sorry. Nothing available.

Here's your daily ration of kerosene. You're not far off. Well, I hope you work your way up pretty soon. What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor? See, I want something very basic. I want an understanding that it's appropriate for me to consider in my life the first meal of my day as breakfast,

the second meal as lunch, and the third as dinner. And the actual time that the meal is made plays doesn't matter in the way I refer to them myself. Right. Including like social.

Yeah, but you have freedom within your own mind. Okay, okay. Like any perpetual prisoner. Right, yes. You can imagine that your walls are beautiful sunsets. I would say within a limited group of people, maybe my mother and my girlfriend,

I would like to be able to vocalize my reality and live as if I were not a freak. I hope if you ever get married, you work that into your vows. Liza, what would you have me order if I were to find any of your favorites? Just simply when making social plans to follow social conventions instead of having me explain the difference in Charlie's timing to everyone every weekend. And this happens every weekend? It's frequent.

In other words, when Charlie comes out of his cave, desiring sustenance, and says, let's call a friend and invite him to breakfast, you want him to say lunch instead? Yeah, or a meal. I would settle for a meal.

Just for a meal? Yeah. Specificity. Okay, I think I've heard everything that I need to. I'm going to crawl into my underground cavern and consider this very carefully. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman

exits the courtroom. Charlie, did I hear you say just now specificity ellipsis? I caught myself. I am just impressed that you managed to, through just a brilliant linguistic maneuver, conflate Judge Hodgman's famous catchphrase,

specificity is the soul of narrative, with brevity is the soul of wit. By making briefer, wow. It was good work. It was good work. Thank you. Liza, do you feel like this causes a lot of strife in your social life, that you have to explain your husband's lifestyle choices?

I mean, strife might be overly generous, but it's just more redundant than it is difficult. It's just the repetitive nature of having to explain what each meal is that has gotten to me over the years. I'm happy to explain it for myself. Yeah. Charlie, you're going to have to make some friends of your own. I think that's what this is coming to.

It seems like the two of you are very happy otherwise, though. I think so. But we're not eating. Charlie, do you think that if the judge rules in your favor, you'll finally get that meeting you've been angling for? I think it's crossed. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say. Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Well, one solution presents itself very nicely, which is, of course, whenever you eat bacon and eggs, that is breakfast. And so if you eat that at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, that is breakfast, and you can call it such, and there's no problem. And as long as we stipulate to that, we can say that your first meal is breakfast, and I can rule in your favor in that regard. For the other thing, we call in the... Lunch?

Lunch. Calling dinner lunch, and then whatever moon food you eat in the middle of the night, whatever glowing mushrooms you eat with the Morlocks at the center of the earth, dinner, and especially forcing Liza to conform to a very latent, unusual eating pattern merely to feel human. That is both unallowable but also terribly sad. I take pity on you, poor creature. I think that you are attempting to normalize a situation that you are increasingly realizing is not healthy for you and not what you want in your life and is not what is going to ultimately provide happiness for you and Liza together. You need to stand up to the LOI who are keeping you down beneath the earth and are telling you, nope, no more room up here on the surface. Go back down. Go back down into the deep and eat your night food. You need to make a change in your life

that is more than simply relabeling meals. And I think that you know this to be true. Is that so? Yes. Right, okay. So in the meantime, however, I was going to rule against you, but how can I further debase this pitiable creature?

All he wants to do is come to Mordor with us and show us the way. I know it might be a mistake to trust him, and he might murder me down the road. But I feel a kinship with him, and I want to travel this road with him for a while. So I will allow this basic accommodation to your strange lifestyle. Hey. First... Let the record show the defendant raised a withered arm and gave a weak cry.

The celebration cry of the mowman. First meal after you awaken may be called breakfast by you and referred to by you as such and all others must conform to your weird way of life. But after that, normal meal names. Second meal and third meal can just be called food. Would you like to have food at this hour?

4 p.m. food? 6 p.m. food? And also, let Liza eat dinner when she wants to. And also, keep watching Bored to Death. I'm pretty sure... I'm pretty sure if another seven or eight of you buy the DVDs, season four is just around the corner. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. That is it. Ladies and gentlemen, Charlie and Liza. Thank you. Well, Judge Hodgman. Yes, Jesse Thorne, bailiff, my bailiff. Well, Judge Hodgman. Yes, Jesse Thorne, bailiff, my bailiff. We could just run our mouths all night, but I feel like we have this dope-ass band here tonight.

I'd like to hear some more from the Pitch Black Brass Band, wouldn't you all? Ladies and gentlemen sitting, please literally rise for the Pitch Black Brass Band. Let's do it! for the Pitch black, bring it around, it's like who's the Fakie the bossy with these trombones Flow, so cold with that two-one-one Yo, let me tell this man, I'm just a stone broad

Wanted everything to be a main course, y'all was up against the stone Blow to the dojo, my table was When it's old style, we joke with no law Got a family of girls, give me that I'm just a kid, my name is Peter, it's fantastic My man's like an icon, I got flow I'm a kid with all that, you think my name's a national But I'm a rock and a double, I'm a rock and a double I'm a rock and a double, I'm a'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm Put your hands up! Thank you. ¶¶ Vamos! Put your hands up! Put your hands up Band, give it up! Pitch Black Brass Band, give it up! Our thanks to the Pitch Black Brass Band for playing us some amazing music in Brooklyn. Like, for real, they tore the house down. Find them at pitchblackbrassband.com. That's Black, B-L-A-K.

They got some East Coast tour dates in February. They're working on a new album coming soon. They are a live experience that is not to be missed. I mean, they just melted the walls. Thanks also to the litigants who shared their disputes with us and to the staff at the Bell House for their help. Sarah Jane D. and Teddy H. named this week's cases. The show was produced by Danielle Davis, Matthew Barnhart,

and, of course, the one and only Jennifer Marmer. Tickets are going quickly for MaxFunCon and MaxFunCon East. Visit MaxFunCon.com for more information. Very, very fun day in Chicago is sold out. But, but, but, there will be tickets at the door. Don't despair. If you really want to be there, just show up. It's going to start at noon. It's going to be great.

You've got a case for Judge John Hodgman. Submit it at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. And if you're like on the fence about it, like, is this important enough? Is this good enough? I don't know. Just send it in. We'll decide. That's our job. I don't know. Just send it in. We'll decide. That's our job. Maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho. If you want to email us, it's Hodgman at Maximumfund.org.

You can follow us on Twitter. I'm at Jesse Thorne, J-E-S-S-E-T-H-O-R-N. And John Hodgman is at Hodgman. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. MaximumFun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.