Judge John Hodgman - Live from the London Podcast Festival 2017, Part 2

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

"Scarflaw" and Swift Justice, live from the London Podcast Festival! Plus, music from Barbarossa! Thank you to Mike Brady, Aaron Campbell & Hilary Lozar for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week's episode was recorded live at the London Podcast Festival with musical guest Barbara Rossa. Let's go to the stage at King's Place for some London justice. Our case, scarf law Matt brings the case against his friend Woody Matt left a scarf at Woody's flat several years ago Woody still hasn't returned it It's become a beloved joke between the two of them Now Woody wants to never give it back

Who's right, who's wrong, only one man can decide. Please rise, and metaphorically, you don't have to actually do it, as Judge John Hodgman literally rises and enters the courtroom and delivers his obscure cultural reference. The scarf came about after Jim bought a wagon load of wool. He gave it to a woman who was so excited that she started knitting it and just didn't stop. When we went to her room, it was so full of scarf, we couldn't get in. She offered to cut it up, but Jim wanted to keep it.

End quote. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Matt and Woody, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? Yeah, I do, sure. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite his preternaturally warm neck?

I do, I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman? It's true, I have heated neck meat all around. Do not need a scarf. Matt and Woody, you may be seated. Which one of you is Matt? I am. And which one of you is Woody? Yeah. The records show that Woody looks like Woody. I don't even know why I asked. judgments in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? We'll start with Matt, since you don't obviously attract attention to yourself as much as Woody does, typically.

What is your guess, Matt? I don't know, so I'm going to say A Song by the Mountain Goats. Always a safe guess in this courtroom. Always a fair guess within the court of Judge John Hodgman. A Song by the Mountain Goats. Any particular fair guess within the court of Judge John Hodgman. A song by the Mountain Goats.

Any particular song? Call it the long scarf? The long scarf biblical reference? Yes, that one, yes. All right, very good. It's interesting that John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats has taken to writing prose songs.

He'll do anything. They're called novels, by the way. Yeah, got it. All right, Woody. I put that into the guest book what is your guess? I also don't know but I'm going to say an unreleased Alice in Wonderland sequel unreleased

Alice in Wonderland sequel well we'll put those into the guest book and I'll run that through my computer oh all guesses are wrong you guys how could you where are we? where are we right now? and I'll run that through my computer. Oh, all guesses are wrong, you guys. How could you... Where are we? Where are we right now? London.

Yeah. In what country? The UK. All right. What's the most famous piece of culture, scarf-related piece of culture in the UK? And also, it's me talking to you. Doctor.

Doctor who? Doctor who? Doctor who? Doctor who? And also, it's me talking to you. Doctor. What? Doctor who. Doctor who. Come on, you guys. To be fair, Judge Hodgman, that would be pretty off-brand for us. It was so on-brand that I almost didn't do it. I was expecting both of you to yell, that's Tom Baker talking to the Guardian on the 4th of November, 2013.

Telling the history of his famous super long scarf. I just assumed you would skip right over answering the question into correcting me and saying, he's called the doctor, not Doctor Who. Shall I? Oh, jeez. He's called the doctor. And then, as soon as you guys yelled that out,

I'd be like, oh, okay, okay, but who was the person who knitted the scarf? Yeah. Does anyone here know? Begonia Pope. Great, crazy English name. Now, speaking of which, Woody. Yes.

Let's get down to this case. Woody, you are in possession of Matt's scarf. I am. Where is the scarf currently? It is on my person. It's currently on your... Let the record show that if Woody is indeed wearing this scarf, it is not in a normal scarf-wearing part of the body.

But I'm glad to know that it is here. You have it ready to display as evidence. I do, yes. May I ask you please to produce the scarf? I am producing it now. This is beginning to sound like a magic trick. It's not in his pocket. A random person from the audience.

Okay, there is the scarf. Let the record show that it is a grey plaid scarf that is not as long as Doctor Who's scarf, which apparently was 24 feet long by the end of the show. Not a joke. Would you please put that scarf around your neck where it belongs? Yes.

All right. Oh, Matt, how does this make you feel? Matt, do you recognize this scarf? I do. Do you acknowledge that it is originally yours? I do. And now we are trying to decide whether it will be yours again. Correct?

Yeah, correct. Correct. Matt, how long have you known Woody? 12 years. And where did you meet? University in York. In York. All right. And what did you study there? Sociology. Very good. And what did you study? Thievery? I studied archaeology. Archaeology. All right. Very good. A couple of ologies. And around this time, is that when the scarf got took? During university? No,

much later in 2013. Alright. I think. And what was the circumstances by which the scarf left your person and went on to Woody's? Woody and his girlfriend were hosting a board game evening. Again, off-brand for us. It could have been Battlestar Galactica.

Battlestar Galactica, the board game. Does Judge John Hodgman make a cameo appearance in Battlestar Galactica, the board game? Yes, in the fourth season of that game that no one watched. I don't think they've made that expansion yet. No. Bet you they won't. As a supporter

of Battlestar Galactica and neutral on board games, I have to say that's the worst way to experience Battlestar Galactica as a board game. A lot of trenchant political commentary in your board game all right so you're playing PSG the game and I just I just left it I forgot to put it on yeah yeah and and when did you realize you had forgotten it it probably fairly soon afterwards when I was getting cold on the way home and and

it was what he calling you to say the scarf is mine now, see you at King's Place in how many years? Five, four, four years. Is that what happened? Yeah, no, it just kind of, it kind of, he told me he'd left the scarf at my house and I said I'd bring it next time I saw him and I didn't and then I didn't again and then I didn't again and And then I didn't again. And then he kind of stopped reminding me. When did you start forgetting the scarf on purpose? It's a hard blend. I think the first few times were not on purpose. Yeah, you genuinely were a human being for a while.

Yeah, I tried. You've got to maintain the facade. And then describe to me the moment you were looking at that scarf going, I'm not going to give that back. I enjoyed the number of texts. I think it was probably looking back for my texts and then you know on an iPhone you can go back and if I'm allowed to brand you can go back

and you can see you know like all the texts, half the texts were about the scarf and I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that most of our interactions on the phone were about the scarf, so I wanted to continue it. Were you enjoying torturing Matt a little bit?

Yeah. Yeah, we're good friends. Every bully thinks that they're having a good time when they're throwing their shoes at someone else. Believe me, I know. Sorry, Elliot. Matt, do you feel like this is part of the dynamic of your guys' friendship in general? It has become so, yes.

It wasn't before? No. Before, you guys were just colonial warriors together at Battlestar Galactica. You were allied against the Cylons, but now you're on opposite sides. Yes. Did you see this coming? Did you see Woody turning into a villain? No, but it's happened more since. How so? Give me some examples of his villainy.

Well, I forgot my umbrella at his house. Wait, will you please say that again? I left my umbrella at his house. Oh, I thought you said, I forgot my own brother at his house. Former brother. And he's just texting you house. Former brother. And he's just texting you pictures of your brother. In funny

places around the house, you'll never get him back. And then his wife took it to work and she left it at work and then she left the firm. So now Woody and his wife are both gaslighting you. Is there anything else that Woody has of yours, aside from your dignity? That he refuses

to release to you? I don't think so. Woody, what pleasure does this give you? Most of the time, little to none. I forget it most so. No. All right. Woody, what pleasure does this give you? Most of the time, little to none. I forget it most of the time. You're only a part-time bully? Yeah, sure.

Sure. I've got fingers in other pies, bullying other people. But it's every once in a while when Matt comes around to my house, as he's leaving, he remembers the scarf, and then there's like a frantic five minutes where he has to try and find it before he has to get the train. Do you have a house or an escape room?

When you say a frantic five minutes when he has to try and find it, is this because you've established a new weird sick game? Well, yeah, you know what? It's somewhere in here. If you can find it in five minutes, you can have it. And if you can't,

I'm going to release this vicious hound on you. You know, like he'll say, oh, I'm just going to go to the loo before I have to leave. And then, you know, you hear him searching around and then he'll burst in saying, where is it?

But I'm confident to let him do that because I know it's very well hidden. By the way, not anymore. Why don't you just say to him, I'm going to go look for it. Why don't you say, I'm going to let him do that because I know it's very well hidden. By the way, why don't you just say to him, I'm going to go look for it. Why don't you say, I'm going to go to the loo, and then start muttering to yourself, where is it, where is it? As though this is some bad radio drama.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. I don't just start raiding his house because his wife would really... I wouldn't be invited around again if I started doing that, I think. I'd sort of ask Woody, I'm leaving now, you can keep my scarf at this point. And he'll just say, no, you're never having that back again. So then I look in the cupboard and it's never there.

Woody, do you have a special hiding place for Scarfy? Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah. All right, hang on one second. Matt, cover your ears. Can you whisper to me where your secret Scarfy hiding place is? Yeah, it's really high up on a high cupboard, and I know he's not that tall, so...

You can't see it. Matt, you didn't hear that, did you? No, I didn't. All right. A lot of this is going to hinge on whether or not I reveal to you the incredibly elaborate hiding place that Woody has found in his apartment, what you call flat, right?

Or do you have a freestanding home? Flat. Flat. Where your scarf is being hidden. Woody, do you believe that property is meaningful? Yeah, I believe in... Or do you believe that all scarves belong to all people? I mean, there's an argument to be made there.

Yeah, you know, we all... Yeah, we have to point out that the only things that have been redistributed, shall we say, in your favor are scarves and umbrellas. And basically those things belong to all humans. Yeah. You're only ever the temporary custodian of an umbrella before you leave it behind someplace. Marx and Engels established that. So I'm making your case for you here.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm making, I'm getting benefit from it. yeah I'm getting benefit from it probably more benefit from the joy of knowing that Matthew doesn't have it than Matt would have from having a warm neck and you're not

do you use the scarf on any regular basis not at all what what about the trips you keep it in your highly secret shrine the only thing I do of it is I take it with me when I go traveling. I try to take photos of me wearing it across the world. The only time you wear it is when you go abroad

and you take pictures of yourself wearing it and send them to Matt to torture him. Yes. I have to say, Matt, this is pretty awesome. I mean, there are a lot of scarves in the world. You could be buying a scarf a day, and frankly, I'm just going to point out, the listeners at home don't know this,

but this scarf is kind of a**hole. It's terrible. That was going to be a point I was going to bring up. It's a thin, ratty scarf that is now many years old. I mean, it is... If anything, if it had been left in your possession and you had been using it regularly, you probably would have thrown it away by now.

If it weren't for Woody keeping it in his special protective shrine in a very secret place in his apartment flat, excuse me, it might not even exist anymore. If I may, I think people like what they like and i like my scarf how dare you that is settled law within this court unless i overturn it what if what i like is you not having your scarf you see why these are fake laws instead of real laws What if what I like is you not having your scarf? You see why these are fake laws instead of real laws. Because they are unenforceable.

What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor? That Woody give my scarf back to me, and if I ever forget anything at his flat ever again, he doesn't start doing this again. That's, first of all, unrealistic and, second, too humane. I mean, if I were to agree with you and believe that you were wronged,

I would be inclined to afford damages. I mean, you've been four years. Did someone do the math? 17 minus 13 is four, right? Okay, good. Sorry, someone please do the maths. Okay.

At the record show, greatest round of applause we've ever had in England was when we pluralized maths. What is the plural of maths? Mathses? You didn't think of that, did you, England? USA.

USA. I can't join in on that. We've got nothing to brag about. Last time we were here, last time we were here, you guys had just Brexited, and we're all sad, and I was sad, too, for you.

I was like, oh, I hope we take this warning from England. Guess what? We're not a nation that takes warnings. We're a nation that takes dares. Can we do worse? Apparently so. What were you going to say, Jesse? I apologize.

On our way here from the airport, you know how every residential building in London has a plaque indicating the seven legendary persons who have lived there? Yes. One of them said that from 1780 to 1820... Sure, old-timey times. Yeah, in this site lived the American patriot Benedict Arnold.

American Patriot Benedict Arnold. Was there a comma between American and Patriot? It was amazing. A bold claim. Make sure to point that out to me. Like, I'm going to do something to it. Granted, we Americans don't know anything about american history but that's still uh like an inventive gaslighting technique we all saw the brady bunch we all know who benedict arnold is

exactly uh where were we oh yeah woody and matt hi how are you guys had a little break there did you get your get a little breath in good yeah so what i was saying to you, Matt, is if I find in your favor, I would say, you know, you've missed out on four years of scarf ownership and use. You could probably demand some damages. Is there something that Woody possesses, don't say his wife, that you would like to hang on to for four years yourself? Be creative. Be, dare I say, vindictive. And please show your work. No.

The outcome of this would be I would stop being the butt of this very particular joke and would gain the upper hand, and that's all I want. Let me say this. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry sorry were they having a little moment i was about to talk over let the record show that they looked at each other in a misty-eyed way where they were woody was beginning to recognize the error of his ways and appreciate that his friend

had been hurt for the past four years rather than amused by this weird gaslighting and now he probably should do something to make amends and Matt was beginning to see the humanity within Woody. He was like, he was turning a villain back to the light side and I was just going to say something like, I was going to say something mean like this, Matt, you need to take vengeance. Let me tell, let me explain something to you. You don't want to be the butt of the joke anymore, right? You don't want this bully to bully you anymore. And the way you're doing it is like,

I'll get some surrogate dad to tell him to stop it. That'll change his mind about me. Can I make a suggestion, Matt? Have you ever read an amazing business book called The Art of the Deal? So, Matt, if you want to win this case, I will order Woody to respect you as a human being. I will order Woody to respect you as a human being. And my order will be unenforceable.

But I will make that order on your behalf. I'll write it down on a piece of paper that you can show to him. And then he'll grab it out of your hands and crumple it up and throw it in the fire and go, ha-ha. But I also order you... Let the record reflect that when you said that he would say ha-ha, he said, ha-ha. But I also order you... Let the record reflect that when you said that he would say ha-ha, he said, ha-ha. That's how bullies talk. Ha-ha.

But I will order you, pre-order you, to think of some thing to take from him that you can put in your own weird shrine, your own weird, mysterious hidey hole.

It's at a high shelf on the cupboard. I'm just going to tell you now because he can move it at any time. Even if I find in his favor, he can find another spot. But I'm just going to say, don't just look at the low shelves. Really get up to the high shelves. Is there something, Woody, is there something that you would loathe to part with? I own a very bad scarf, not this one a different one.

You have a different scarf? Yes I think that could be a suitable. A scarf for a scarf? Yeah sure blood for blood, eye for an eye. Sure. A scarf for a scarf makes the whole world warm as it says in the Bible. In the in the kingdom of the cold-neck the one scarf man is king. I don't like that scarf suggestion. Come on, you know. Come on. I want you to get in touch with your inner evil Woody.

Matt, we have come from America to teach you a thing or two. The best thing I can think of is the waistcoat that Woody got married in. Oh. Oh. Matt, I like it. Highly personal. Almost self-parodically English. His favorite jar of clotted cream. His favorite jar of clotted cream. The waistcoat he got married in.

And what would you do? Go on holiday and take pictures of yourself wearing it? Maybe taking a mud bath somewhere? I'll do what you ordered me to do with it.

Oh, Matt. Woody, how would you feel if I ordered in Matt's favor and you had to give up that waistcoat? I'd be, yeah, I'd be really... Isn't it called a wusket over here? Wusket. A wusket? Worcester.

A worcester? A worcester cheer coat? I'd be very... Or Lori. I'd be very put out by that. Yeah, I'd be upset. Also, I'd be weirded out, because I'd arrive in the whole get-up

and then specifically leave just without the waistcoat. You wouldn't be weirded out by it. You're already thinking about how you're going to surrender it. Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, that's true. You are theatrically minded.

Yeah, I'd be upset. You'd be upset. I am excited by the idea of Matt taking the marriage Weskit to countries around the world, taking pictures of himself, and possibly posting them to some sort of Weskit cuckoldry subreddit. Mmm, woody. Woody. Now you have to, I'm incredibly intrigued by this proposition of Matt's.

And I also have the decency and property rights on his side as well. So this is your chance to make your final plea for why I should side on the side of evil and bullies and let you keep that scarf to continue torturing your friend. Go. I have, I think I have two, maybe three main points. I think one, I think.

I'm glad you specified main points. I hope there are a lot of sub points. Poor sub points and appendixes. I think, you know think... I'm glad you specified main points. Yeah, main points. A lot of sub points. Poor sub points and appendixes. I think, you know, it comes off... I come off very badly in this situation. You stole a scarf! You stole a scarf! But Matt is my friend,

and I think this is a bad scarf, and I think there are other scarves out there for him that would suit him better. That would suit his coloring better, you know? friend and I think this is a bad scarf and I think there are other scarves out there for him that would suit him better that would suit suit his coloring better you know and let me see the scarf on Matt you're gonna see this oh Matt Matt don't get too used to it it's pre-warmed is this the first time it's touched your skin in this is This is about as erotic as it gets in England. Well, short of that Weskit cuckoldry subreddit. This is the first time I've seen the scarf since Woody sent me the photo from his safari honeymoon.

I have to say it suits you. Take it off. I have not made a judgment yet. All right, so you're saying that scarf... Yeah, that's right. That's right. Really, really do it up. Let the record show that Woody really made a meal of putting that scarf back on.

Let the record show that Woody really made a meal of putting that scarf back on. So, you're saying that the scarf doesn't look good on Matt. Wrong. Second main point. So this started just being me being quite forgetful and forgetting to bring the scarf. Yes. I'm not forgetful, I remember. When I started taking the scarf on whichever trips I was going around,

I forgot to take it out of my bag to take photos of it. So I just took it around with me in the bag and nothing else happened. So there's a lot of missed opportunity for torturing him? I don't feel that. There were a couple of years when you weren't taking pictures of it to send him to make him feel bad?

Yeah, I was just moving around with me. So just weird. You were just transporting the scarf. Yeah i think i think i need to develop you know really you haven't finished the prank yet yeah would you ever return it to him could you set a day and date now where you feel this that this prank and this bullying could come to an end uh yeah yeah i think so what day and date i think make sure to put the day before the month. I think... And make sure to say lift instead of elevator. I think probably...

If you ever get married, Matthew. Oh. An emotional ultimatum. If. If. It doesn't matter either way. But, you know, that would be a suitable gift. Matthew, is there a special...

It's just that... Would you get me anything else? I could engrave the scarf, maybe. Before I go into my chambers to consider all of the emotional blackmail that is happening, Matt, is there a special someone in your life currently? No. Oh.

You all saw him with that scarf on. He'll be around here in King's Place after the show. So this is all hypothetical, the idea of you're getting married sometime. Yes, judge. Look, I'm not bullying you. I'm just getting information. If there was a special person in your life and you're going to get married in five months maybe, then I could allow this to go on.

You see what I'm saying? But basically what you're saying is that there's no one in your life whatsoever the only the very idea that you might get married sometime in the future seems like a hopeless hypothetical and that the only thing that is required at this point to make you whole is you just want scarfie back fair surmise that's fair i think i've heard everything I need to In order to make my decision I'm going to go into my chambers Very slowly and painfully I'll think this over

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict Please rise as Judge John Hodgman Exits the courtroom Okay, Matt What is it going to take To get you to stand up for yourself? If not here on stage tonight Just in life

Oh, cold You're not here on stage tonight just in life. Whoa, cold. I just mean it's very cold in my chambers. What do we gotta do to light a fire under your butt? Fire, fire! Sorry, I started a fire in my chambers because it's so cold. After tonight, I'm going to have a long think. Is that the English word for take action? Woody, I have a sort of less important question for you.

You guys sometimes have what you call fancy dress parties for Halloween and other occasions, right? Yes. What Owen Wilson characters have you gone dressed as? I mean, like, get you a lawn wrangler's jumpsuit and let's do this thing. What is it he says? What is it Owen Wilson says?

I'm not helping. That was a turning point, ladies and gentlemen. How do you feel about your chances in the case, Matt? 50-50, I think. Oh, emboldened. Woody, how are you feeling? I came in pretty confident, but... Yeah. We noticed.

Massively reduced, yeah. No, I'm enjoying the scarf whilst I can. By the way, I like that even the world's most handsome, enormous, confident Englishman still talks like Hugh Grant. Please rise as Judge

John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Here I am back from my chambers. I'm going to have a long think. Even hearing that through the very thin walls of my chambers, I'm like, that is a huge breakthrough. I'm glad that I could be here for this. But I would encourage you both to have a long think. I had to have a long think once. Once I had a long think. Now, you guys may know that

there's another MaximumFun.org podcast called The Flophouse. It is my rival podcast because they are more popular than my podcast. And there are my friends, Stu Wellington, Dan McCoy, Elliot Kalin. Elliot Kalin used to be a writer, indeed was the final head writer for The Daily Show when Jon Stewart was there, my colleague, and a very sweet, small, bullyable nerd. Now, as soon as I met him, I'm like, I'm going to bully that nerd.

What made it funny is, I'm also a nerd. I've been sucking on an asthma inhaler since I was born. You heard my whole Dr. Whovian thing at the top of this thing. This is going to be some incredible meta-bullying. It was going to be nerd on nerd violence. It was going to be fantastic. So every now and then I would go through the office, and I would stop by his desk,

and he would have some Iron Man figure or whatever on his desk, and I'd walk by and go, that's nice, it's mine now, nerd. And I'd take it. I would walk away. The minute I was outside of his office, I would drop it on the hallway floor and never look at it again. This was so much fun. Just knocking over piles of comic books on his desk for no reason and not even saying a thing to him.

I was like, oh, now I get it. Now I know why there are bullies. It's an incredible feeling. And it culminated one day as we were getting ready to go to taping. I had changed into my show clothes, suit, tie, shoes. And I had taken my sneakers off and I was walking through the hallway with them and I saw Elliot and I said, hey Elliot, and I threw my shoes at him. No further comment. No more joke than that. Threw my shoes at him. And as they hit his shoulder

softly, thunk, thunk, I was so happy. And then he turned and looked at me, and the hurt in his eyes finally reached me. This had been going on, by the way, this had been going on for months. And I realized, wait a minute, I'm an on-camera talent. I used to be on television, you guys. And Elliot, even though he's one of the smartest, funniest people I know, and a very successful writer on the show, is not on-camera talent. And therefore, there is a power differential. He has to laugh at the jokes I make, even if they involve me throwing things at him. He has to go, which I thought was him going, hey, great.

But now I realize, no, he is not having a good time. Only the bully is having a good time. And unless everyone is having a good time, no one is having a good time, would he? Do you see the parallel? I can appreciate it, yep. Look at your friend, Matt. Is he not the very picture of Elliot Calendam?

I see Elliot before my eyes now. Elliot, I'm sorry, Elliot. Let the record reflect the judge is having a vision. I apologize, Elliot. You're so sweet-natured, and you never fought back, and you never put me in my place. And so I was emboldened, and I felt like the jocks used to feel when they would call me bad names,

and it was a wonderful feeling, and I got addicted to it. I wish I could take those shoes back, Elliot, and also, Elliot, for all of that, I'm really angry that your podcast is more popular than mine. It makes me want to throw my shoes again, but I'm not going to. Whoa, where am I? England, Matt,

Woody, we're still here? Sorry. As much as I enjoy the joke that you have been playing, taking the scarf, lazily playing, by the way. There are a lot of times you took the scarf and didn't take a picture of it. You were just moving it from place to place. As much as I enjoy your hiding of the scarf, as much as I enjoy, on a sick, bullying way,

your enjoyment of this game, it is quite clear to me that Matt does not enjoy it at all. He wants Scarfie back. It's all he's ever wanted. And your suggestion that we set a day and date such as when he gets married, no, that was the most bullying thing of all you could do. That was straight up mean. So even if property rights mean nothing in this life, and with scarves, obviously they don't.

Scarves belong to no one. They belong to the universe. But in this case, that scarf belongs to Matt. I order you to return it to him this very moment. A. A. B. Let the record show, Matt has a scarf on and he is adorable.

And available. B. Get that waistcoat ready. Oh, yes. You are going to have to surrender that waistcoat to Matt for a period of no longer than four years. Oh, shit. Matt is too much of a sweetheart to be taking it on safari

and taking pictures of himself in it. Although you are emboldened and empowered to do whatever you want with it, except destroy it, you have to be able to return it in good order in four years when it's time for Woody to get married again. Until then, the waistcoat is in your care.

Hide it carefully. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Matt and Woody, ladies and gentlemen. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney,

is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, this seems like the perfect time for a bit of music. I agree.

Can we hear some music, please? Introduce them, Bailiff Jesse. Absolutely. You've heard his songs on How I Met Your Mother, on Ray Donovan, and Elementary. He's performed with Jose Gonzalez. Ladies and gentlemen,

please welcome to the stage Barbara Rossa. Barbara Rossa, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. Take my hand If it gets you through, then it's alright Take my hand Take your time Till it relates to you

Then it's alright You break my mind But if your view Is of golden valleys but the sense of regret paralyzes, then you'll never know how it feels. And if you never challenge what you see, because of light will start flashing And you'll never know how it feels To have hope To have hope

To have hope To have hope To have hope To have hope To have hope If you could replay this When would you stop to want out your hands And if you couldn't say it, how could I ever understand? Like you never will

And it will break your heart Well, if you knew That this is all about you But you carry on regardless But we've already started a new bloodline Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh Thank you. Born to the birds Born to the guns Born to the guns Born to the ghosts Surround you, son Fortunately, you were born at all I don't want it all Into these heartache comes

But into a warring world It'll all fall away To the oceans below But I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now In the grip of the reptile I'm gonna hold you now

I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now till I can Born to the boys Born to the girls Born to this thread of life That connects us all It'll all fall away To the oceans below

But I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now In the grip of the reptile I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now Till I can't hold you

Ooh Ooh Ooh Ooh, ooh I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now I'm gonna hold you now Till I can Thank you so much, too. Barbara Rossa, ladies and gentlemen.

Barbarossamusic.com. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen?

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It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made

In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs. They're made in, made in. The Rohan duck. Made in, made in. Riders of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional-grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah.

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Nope. Okay. Well, then I'll just be quiet and leave it to you. No, I'm on board. Let's go. My best idea is this. We spent like half an hour settling those two people's case. Yeah, and by the way, I knew what I was going to do in two minutes. Yeah.

And by the way, I knew what I was going to do in two minutes. Yeah. Our time is very valuable, and there's a lot of injustice in this country. They don't have their own judges. So what if we took what little stage time we have left and plowed headfirst through all of the remaining injustice in this entire nation. In the entire nation. In the entire nation. Sure.

These three injustices. The entire independent non-European nation. Sorry. You go. It wasn't his idea. So why don't we do a little swift justice? Right. We'll listen to a couple of cases really quickly and we'll plow through them.

And my justice will have to be a little bit less probing and a little bit harsher. And now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Giles and Lorraine. Giles and Lorraine. Please be seated. You are automatically sworn in. We have a few minutes on the clock to hear your case. Who brings this case against whom? Giles has indicated it is he.

Go, Giles. This is my wife, Lorraine. Hello, Lorraine. How are you? So nice to meet you. I've heard a lot about you. Giles introduced you just a moment ago. My name's Judge John Hodgman, and I'm going to hear his accusation of you.

I'm so sorry about this. I'm not sure if you know that this is going to happen today, but it's going to happen and it's going to happen hard. So let's go. Giles, hit it. What's your beef? She hates sneezing. Was that a sneeze, Giles? Because that would be a distracting sneeze. I'm allowed two sneezes in succession within an unspecified period of time. Per year? It's not yet been specified. This is 24 years we've been married.

Oh, congratulations. Thank you. I'm allowed two sneezes in this amoebas time. I feel like all of the cases tonight just going to be obscure forms of BDSM. Well, she does threaten physical violence.

She's threatened physical violence upon me. Physical violence. When we first met, I had hay fever. Yes. She proudly boasts she beat it out of me. When you first met... This was date... Lorraine, was this date one? Well, we met in February, so it was that summer, yes.

I see. So when you were just getting to know each other. Yes. So you met in February. You said, this seems like a nice guy. He doesn't... He's... Got a totally normal mucus response. I could see myself spending a few years with him

so long as he never sneezes. And then comes the summer, and all of a sudden, he's a mess. He's got stuff dripping out of him. Achoo, achoo, achoo. And yet, you married him anyway. Well, by then, he no longer had the hay fever. Did you beat it out of him? Yes.

How did you? I love stories of homeopathic medicine. What was your therapy exactly? Well, it isn't physical violence obviously because that wouldn't be good. It's just looks and mutual understanding that if he does

it again... Let the record show for the listening audience that she gave quite a nasty look after if he does it again so emotional terrorism essentially you're talking about here Giles all of our friends know this and it

extends to strangers as well what do you mean if strangers sneeze around her we commute in and out of London regularly we both live outside of London and work inside sure so we travel on trains quite a lot oh yeah if there's anyone about germ tubes yeah Joe tubes yeah we travel on those and if anyone or sniffs regularly. You're really making me want to do those things. What does she do? Stare daggers.

I mean, I think you have actually offered tissues on occasion. Yes, I have. Offering tissues being the most potent act of aggression in the United Kingdom. Thrust tissues. Sure. Lorraine, can I ask you, is this about the sound of the sneezing, the idea of the sneezing? It's the sound.

It goes right through me. Uh-huh. You know, like nails on a blackboard. Do you write into a lot of podcasts? Is it the sound of any sneezing or Giles's in particular? Any human. Any human.

Do you acknowledge that Giles is a human? Who has his own rights and agency and ability to live his life as a full human being or no? There's a reason she says human. Why? Because we have a cat and the cat sneezes are cute.

Sure. Almost encouraged. You know what a cat... You know what the sound of a cat sneezing is? Almost encouraged. Meow. That's a cat sneezing. Right? Are you a germophobe? No. No. So you don't care about that. I could sneeze

in your face right now. As long as it was silent, you wouldn't mind. So sneezing is not necessarily known as a voluntary act. No, no. If you have a sneeze and you go one sneeze and then you go two sneezes and you know you've got a third coming, what do you do? You run out of the room so you don't get yelled at?

I will try and suppress further sneezes. Yes. But, I mean, there's something visceral about sneezing. Sometimes it's good to sneeze. I enjoy sneezing sometimes. I have actually, on occasion, when she's not been there, I've actually tweeted and Facebooked about having a sneezing fit as in a joyous occasion.

Lorraine, do you not see how you have warped the person you love? Oh, I think he was always warped. He's now binge sneezing. After dark. This is not, you're not supposed to enjoy it, it's supposed to be an involuntary bodily response. But the thing is, I can't

rule on this until I know just how terrible your sneezing is. I have here some packets of pepper. Now look, this is not going to make it better for you, but we're both going to do this. Can I just check one thing first? What's that? Can you just hold your arm out? Why do you want it?

Oh, do you want to see if she's going to punch you? Yeah, don't worry. Any physical contact? Bail up, Jesse Thorne. Prepare to restrain the witness. All right, are we going to do this at the same? No, I need you to do it first. Let the record reflect that Giles knows exactly how to...

If only he had an album cover and a razor blade, he'd be good to go. It's almost like... Giles has inhaled pepper into his nose. It's not happening. It's not happening. It's not happening. It's not happening. So first of all, let me point out that Giles is putting pepper onto his hand in a very practiced way. Like maybe sometimes in the dark 3 a.m. of the soul, he's done this before to get a good sneeze fix in. And it may be that it's not happening right now

because uh you're you're inured to it your your your immunity is too high maybe you need another packet there you go i've got one more for me oh by the way lorraine don't cough around me if you don't mind what it's disgusting one of the problems, Judge Hodgman, is the nostril becomes insensitive and you have to find new nostrils, sometimes even between your toes. Yeah, that's right. Come on.

I don't want to kill you. All right. I'm covered in pepper. I appreciate that people don't like what they don't like. Oh my god, this poor man is... I'm truly worried that I'm going to be reading about you in the newspaper tomorrow.

Nice man dies of pepper poisoning for podcast. Lots of peas in this plosive... My nose is on fire. I thought pepper was supposed to make you sneeze. Maybe we should have a cat in here. Well, I think you've been tortured enough, Giles, both by me and by Lorraine.

Can I just add one thing? Yes. I would feel better if he did blow his nose when he sneezes to make an example that he's trying to stop it, and that when he says sorry, he doesn't look at me in such a way that I know he's not sorry. You're trying to stop it.

It's an involuntary human reaction. And you're asking... He's only leering at you and is sorry because you've transformed him into a sneeze perv. He needs therapy now. You need to go... You need to go to a licensed professional who will just let you sneeze all day until you get it out.

I'm going to allow you a third sneeze. And I, you know what? Sneeze until you don't need to sneeze anymore. But stop going on weird sneeze binging and Facebooking about it. You need to get healthy again, sir. Lorraine, I'm sorry, but, you know, be considerate and get out of the room

if you know it's going to happen. But Lorraine, you've got to let him. How do you feel about hiccups? Are those thumbs down too? No, no, they're fine. All right. Lorraine, it sounds like you need to shut your pie hole when he opens his sneeze hole!

I promised you, Giles, that I would share in your pain, so I'm going to do what I can here. Welcome to the stage, Bradley and Suzette. Hang on, I'm still over here huffing black pepper. I don't need to sneeze. That's weird, right? I think maybe this pepper is stale. All right.

We're happy to be here at King's Place, although they need to up their condiment game at the Waldorf salad station. I'm sorry, who are you again? Where'd you come from? I was putting pepper in my nose. Say your name, sir. Bradley. Bradley and? Suzette. Suzette. Bradley, could I ask you to just speak

right into the microphone? Sorry. Here, I'll help you. Thank you. Hello, sir. You want some pepper? No, thank you. I'll just sprinkle it on you. Woo! Jesse Thorne, Black Pepper. That's the secret to a show.

Gotta do that right before a show. I'm gonna be sneezing and peppering all in my pre-show ritual now. Should I be doing this to my racehorses? If you want to win! Bradley, Bradley, and Suzette, what is the nature of your conflict? I actually

wrote to you about four years ago. Yes. And it was a docket. Oh, and I ruled on it before. Yes. I believe I remember this. It has to do with the Olympics, does it not? It does.

It does. It has to do with the London Olympics. And tell me what your complaint was four years ago. Four years ago, my partner, she was a member of the Games Makers, the volunteers. Is that a group of people who play Battlestar Galactica on? Oh!

Alright. Let the record show for the listening audience that Suzette has taken off her outer layer of clothing to reveal some kind of sporty colored shirt that the audience recognizes because they're normal people, but which is meaningless to me. Suzette, what is a games maker? So a games maker was one of the volunteers for the Olympics and the Paralympics, and we were everywhere in London. We were not just at the stadium, we were in the train stations, in the airports, wherever you saw us. And we were bringing joy to everyone who

was coming to the Olympics. So in 2012, when the Olympics and the Paralympics came to London, you wore that shirt on the tube and just collected standing ovations. Were there any other responsibilities other than wearing the shirt? No, I do remember the bin men.

They shook my hand when I went to work. Having your hand shaken by a bin men only counts as a professional obligation, but it's a very cheering thing to have happened to you. I danced a lot, and I said, welcome to the Olympics quite a lot. Yeah, I see the cheer coming through your voice,

but I don't see the dancing. Show me. So far, you could just be describing an episode of Peppa Pig you saw. So I was in security. I would greet everyone and say, welcome to the Olympics. Come this way. And I'd have a... And I had an umbrella, which had a kind of

extension thing, so I could go, and kind of frighten the children, but they loved it, really. Excuse me. Thank you for... Thank you for giving me my microphone back. You did not go, woohoo. Would you please do it correctly? Woohoo!

Whoa, thank you very much. Now, remind me, Bradley, what was your complaint several years ago about Suzette when you wrote in to me? That as much as I love her, after six months of boring me with it, was enough. And I

wanted you to order her to stop. To stop dancing and woohooing and wearing the shirt and everything else? Oh, she stopped dancing and woohooing. She just waffled on about it. And what did I order?

Shh, easy mob. I will pass judgment here, not you with your pitchforks and your snakes that you brought with you. What did I order at that time on the dock? I think you called me a monster. And you were right behind her, and she should enjoy life, and I should stop. And so...

And Judge Hodgman, you were at the time moved in part by the Olympic spirit, right? What is that? It's like something about sports and... Oh, sure. Not getting paid. Woo-hoo! Major infrastructure.

And your complaint is different now or the same? It's sort of the same. Yeah. She's still going on. It's no longer six months later. It's five years. Thank you for doing the maths, because I didn't want to. Oh, believe me, I've been counting.

So how often do you wear the shirt about, Suzette? Not so much the shirt, but I wear the watch and the shoes, and I quite like wearing it on the tube, hoping someone will notice. But I've incorporated it all into my work as well. You wear it on the tube sometimes, sometimes hoping someone will notice? I do that with my wardrobe from the

PC ads that I used to do. Sorry, Apple ads, Apple ads. I'm still in wardrobe, you guys. I still got the costume. Call me. Has the Olympics ever called you to say you know you need to stop doing that? We've moved on. We've done a whole Olympics since then. We've got another one coming up.

Not yet. Did they ask for the return of their property? Their shirt? No, it's in a very special drawer. It's in what? It's in a very special drawer. It's a special drawer? Yes. It's higher than the other drawer. It's a what? It's in a very special drawer. It's a special drawer? Yes. It's higher than the other drawer.

Is it on a high cupboard shelf? It is and he has to pick it down when I want to have a look at all my stuff and go through it all. And how often does that happen? I've tried to restrict myself. It's probably only once every six months. And is the pleasure looking through all of that stuff or is the pleasure making him get it for you?

No, no, it's looking through it. I absolutely love it. Here's the thing You you're a very cheery person. You did a little dance on the stage. You went whoo-hoo and Bradley you seem like a nice guy Just let me get into it. Bradley, you're a human being. Let the record show he goes, a little bit, that's true. And you're not woo-hooing, and you're not dancing,

and you've got a very phlegmatic look upon your face. You're here hashing out the same issue that you had, you know, five years ago, and you're not a dancing type. And you're still angry about this same thing. It's like, for instance, just recently, there was the World Olympic Championships held. I'll take your word for it.

At the London Stadium where they did the Olympics. Yeah. And we're watching the athletics. And most people, if you're watching the athletics, you're watching the athletics. Not Suzette. Suzette is watching to see what everyone, all the volunteers are wearing. And to see how different it is from what they were wearing in London 2012. She likes what she likes.

She doesn't want to. I don't want to watch the athletics either. I'd much rather watch the jaunty volunteers, what they're doing with their umbrellas. That I can understand. That's just an example of it. That gets under your skin? Yeah. Are you a sport fan? Yes am i see and so it it it upsets you that she's not as interested in sport as you are oh no no i don't mind because i can't

stand the olympics so do you not consider the olympics sport i think i'm working really hard not to say sports you guys i think someone once called it two weeks of gym can i just say that during the london olympics i flew to london to see judge Judge John Hodgman listener Donna Vicalis compete in the modern pentathlon. And as I sat in the crowd watching Donna circle the stadium intermittently stopping to shoot a laser gun, I found myself bawling in the audience. the audience so moved was I by the Olympic spirit which as we covered previously is about sport and finding new things to do with fencing venues it was one of the most emotionally powerful moments of my life in all sincerity and it happened primarily because of your wife oh no no, we're not married. We're only partners.

I'm waiting. Are you saying, I know that you've been together for at least five years. How long have you been partners? 28 years. 28 years. And you're waiting for her to become uncheerful before you... Yep. Let the record show he nodded yes.

Suzette, what is the bond that you have between you when obviously you are a ray of sunshine and he is a downpour of gloom? Actually, he makes me laugh every single day because he is ten times funnier than he's coming across here. Whoa. I never knew sunshine could be so passive-aggressive. I can tell that, Bradley, you have a deadpan sense of humor.

Yeah. Yes. You tried that thing about calling the Olympics Jim. That was a good shot. What else? Would you ever ask him to be different than he is? Slimmer. Yeah, slimmer, fitter.

All right. I mean, to be fair, Suzette got a banging bod. Here's the thing. I'm glad we're revisiting this. Let the record show that Jesse Thorne and Suzette are going to elope.

Should have put a ring on it. I know. Too bad, Bradley. You should have. know, too bad Bradley You should have There's no wife swapping You don't have a wife This just ends with you at home Watching real sport on television Like I guess probably darts Is it darts or dart?

I am glad that we're relitigating this, however, because A, it's really nice to meet you guys in person. B, you're both adorable in your own ways. But B also, this is much longer on. And I gotta tell you, Suzette, this Games Maker shirt you're wearing, it's getting a little ratty. It's starting to look like Matt's scarf.

You know what I'm talking about? I wonder if there is an event horizon beyond which you're wearing that shirt and dancing around with an umbrella is gonna be a little sadder rather than happier. Like me walking around the Daily Show studios with my old Daily Show jacket that's falling apart going, I used to be on the show, you know.

Do you see that as being possible? Is there a time when you foresee retiring this shirt? Yes, because I want to volunteer for more Olympics, so when I get those uniforms, then this can go and... What is your plan? Where are you going to go next? Well, I'd quite like

Tokyo, but France is not so far, so... And then Los Angeles would be good as well. All right. You can stay at my place. Here is my decision. You mentioned... Is there anything you would like Bradley to change about himself? Slimmer, fitter.

Slimmer, fitter. Oh, fitter. We didn't discuss the fitter. Sometimes they go hand in hand. I will say this first of all. Preliminary ruling, you are not a monster. You're a very deadpan sport fan who is very devoted to Suzette, though not completely yet. We'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens in the future. Suzette, you're a wonder. I enjoyed your dancing very much. The court of Judge John Hodgman is always going to side on happiness and dancing and enthusiasm, even if you are shaking your head. But I will order this. You lose 35 pounds, that shirt goes in the garbage. Judge Ed Hodge rules. That was all.

Ladies and gentlemen, Bradley and Suzette. Our thanks to Mike Brady, Aaron Campbell, and Hillary Lazar for naming the dispute Scarflaw. And thanks so much to the litigants for joining us on stage and sharing their cases with us. Barbarossa's latest single is called Griptide. It's out now on Memphis Industries Records. He's working on a new album that's coming out in 2018. Visit Barbarossa, B-A-R-B-A-R-O-S-S-A dot com for music, tour dates, and more information. Our thanks also go out to the staff at the London Podcast Festival. This episode was produced by Jennifer Marmer.

She had help from Nick Liao. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Judge John Hodgman podcast.