Judge John Hodgman - Live From Van Freaks Roadshow in Charlottesville, VA

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

A cursed ceramic pineapple possesses Judge John Hodgman's court this week! Live from the Van Freaks Roadshow in Charlottesville, recorded last year ON HALLOWEEN NIGHT! Plus, New York Times columnist, photographer, and cereal expert Jamelle Bouie joins us for Swift Justice and a special spooky cereal taste test!We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/TurduckenEverest for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court is happening NOW! Get your tickets at maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne and with me, Judge John Hodgman. Spooky day, spooky night. Halloween, it is the day. It is Halloween Eve. We have a very spooky episode for you and in fact, was recorded live on Halloween itself in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Oh yeah, a live show on Halloween during the Van Freaks Roadshow. We heard a very scary case about a cursed ceramic pineapple. And we were joined for a special spooky cereal taste test with our friend Jamel Bowie from the New York Times. What a thrill to have Jamel on stage and I had completely forgotten about that scary pineapple. It's really spooky. Judge Hodgman, can I tell you something that is related to this episode?

You may, of course. You may remember that when we were standing outside the theater in Charlottesville, Virginia. The beautiful Paramount Theater. We saw two local students. I'm going to say that they were college students, local college students, dressed as Coraline from the movie Coraline. Now, it just so happens that my friend John

was one of the stars of the movie Coraline. I played the father and the other father in Coraline. Yes. And, uh, uh, you were not going to say anything. No. But I tried to say something. Yes. And they were not interested.

They were not having it. They ran away from you and, and so they should. But let me say this, John, too young, too young people in college being yelled at by older guys with mustaches outside of theater going, he was in Coraline. I'd run too. But let me say this, John. Yeah. Few days ago, I was at the veterinarian.

Uh-huh. TLC pet medical in South Pasadena, California. Shout out. Coraline was playing on the television in the lobby. I said to the woman, Oh, is that Coraline? Been a while since I've seen it. She said, yes. I said, Oh, my, uh, my comedy partner is one of the actors in that movie.

Your comedy partner, Terry Hatcher. Yeah. Told her about how we saw those Coralines one time in Charlottesville, Virginia. Yeah. Anyway, the lady at the veterinarian, I want you to know, extremely impressed. Extremely. She, she was, she was, as they say, squeeing when I knew someone, because she loves Coraline so much.

She was over the moon that I knew someone from Coraline. I'm not, look, I am very proud to be a part of a movie that I love so much, it's Coraline. Especially since I know that it's a movie that a lot of people really love. And I believe that it's getting a limited release in theaters right now for Halloween. If you haven't seen it, go see it.

It's pretty scary, but it's getting a limited release in theaters right now for Halloween. If you haven't seen it, go see it. It's pretty scary, but it's really great. So it's not that I'm, but I'm, I, I love being associated with Coraline. I don't love accosting people on the street, but that said, we had a really, really fun time at the Paramount theater in Charlottesville. And, uh, and as you listen to this show, I want you to imagine how much fun we had in the theater and then realize there's a lot of fun we had in that theater that you don't even get to hear on the podcast. You can only hear it when you come and see it for that matter and witness it and experience

it when you actually come and see us at a live show. So I'll just quickly remind you, we're days away from our next live show in Burlington, Vermont. And then after that, we're in Portland, Maine. Please go and get your tickets now because our Massachusetts shows are sold out. Go to maximumfund.org slash events. We'll tell you a little bit more about those shows coming up.

But in the meantime, shall we go to the stage? Indeed. Let's go to the stage of the Paramount Theater in Charlottesville, Virginia. People of Charlottesville, Virginia, you asked us for live justice and we are here to deliver it. The Court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome to the stage, Laura and Maggie. Laura brings the case against her daughter, Maggie. Laura made a piggy bank in the shape of a pineapple as a gift for her daughter. Maggie doesn't want it. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference. I have an apple. I have an apple.

I have a pen. I have a pineapple pen. It always I think it's done and then it starts again. Apple pen! Oh my gracious. Pen pineapple apple! I love the guy but it's been every stop on the tour of this. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Laura and Maggie, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he ain't never made nothing for me? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Laura and Maggie, you may be seated

for an immediate summary judge. First of all, would you like some candy, some Halloween candy? Oh, of course. What do you say? Oh, trick or treat. Thank you. What are you dressed as tonight? I am the, uh, what's it called? An alien from the end of Rocky Horror. You had to look to your mom because she made you watch that movie, correct? No, it was actually a club event on campus. Oh, well.

I just, I couldn't remember the word alien. That's, it's going to be a great night. I don't want to eat that. What kind of candy did you get? A black jelly bean? I got a, I was feeling adventurous. Good. Mom, would you like a black jelly bean?

No, I'm going to stick with the Mary Jane. All right, and what are you dressed as? I am Captain Battelle from Star Trek, Strange New Worlds. Fantastic. A wonderful show. A cultural reference that I get. Now, for an immediate summary... ...rudgement? For an immediate summary judgment in one of your's favors...

What role? Can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? I'll give you a hint. I am on purpose annoying Jessie by singing in the mode of Tom Waits every stop on this tour. Does that mean that this is a Tom Waits song? I don't know. Why don't you guess? Laura, you guess first.

Well, my only guess was that it sounds like your Tom Waits impression that I've heard. Good guess. I don't know any Tom Waits songs. You don't know any Tom Waits song you don't know any Tom No, I I have nothing Maggie. What is your guess? I? Do know that it was a viral song That is all I know it is well all guesses were close enough to be a tie

So we have to hear the case anyway, but it was the 2016 viral song and video called Pen Pineapple Apple Pen performed by Japanese comedian under the name of Pika Taro and it has more than like 650 million views. I've never heard of it. I sang you all of the lyrics and I want to know what I'm doing with my life. But in the meantime, I did sing it in the style of Tom Waits to trick slash annoy Jesse So neither of you are quite right, but you were closer I give you a 5% head start on this case the honest truth judge Hodgman is it's pretty incredible How credible a Tom Waits song a song by a Japanese viral comedian is it's a great It's a great song. Maybe I'll go viral.

If you just throw enough nonsense nouns into a song. It's good, it's a good song. Anyway, now we're gonna hear the case. So who comes to this court to seek justice from me? I do. And you are Laura. Yes. Laura, what is the nature of your dispute?

So Maggie's younger sister and I painted a pineapple-shaped piggy bank for her several years ago And Maggie doesn't want it because she thinks it's scary. Ah It's scary. Yes. Why are you scared of the piggy bank because of the eyes that it has Do they do they follow you around the room not quite but their presence, and even not gazing at you is quite disturbing. I noticed that Laura, your mother, is holding a shoe box in her lap. She is.

You keep eyeing suspiciously and warily, as though something might be inside of it that scares you. Yeah, something I might not want to have in my room. Okay. Is the piggy bank in that box? It is. Would you like to see? May I take a look? Ah! Ah! Ah!

No, it's fine. Aha. May I show it to the crowd? Of course. Woo! It's adorable. Right? You painted it, but you did not make this. No. You did not sculpt it. No.

Let the record show for the folks at home, and we will show a picture of this on our show page and so forth. It is a smiling pineapple with bright shining eyes, painted pineapple yellow with a little green hat on, which is its leaves or whatever, and you find it very scary, don't you? Yeah, I don't really like being near it. No? No. Do you wanna hold it just for a moment?

Sure. Okay. I'll take it away now. Thank you. You seem to be a little alarmed, but you were able to handle it for a little bit of time. I'll take it away now. Thank you. You seem to be a little alarmed, but you were able to handle it for a little bit of time. Yeah, small increments. May I put it over here so it can stare at you throughout the entire case? Oh, of course. Terrific.

Let me just line up its eyes with your eyes. Is that about right? Yep, direct eye contact. A little bit closer. All right, so when did you give the piggy bank to your daughter? Is that about right? Yep, direct eye contact. A little bit closer. All right, so when did you give the piggy bank to your daughter? I would say about five years ago. Yeah.

I think it was just after you visited a carnival in a horror movie. I don't know why we had it. I think it was part of a craft kit and Maggie was away for about six weeks over the summer and we made it for her while she was gone. And you heard like a voice going, paint me. Paint me for your daughter. I do think it's interesting it mysteriously appeared in our house somehow. Did the craft kit mysteriously appear in the house?

We don't remember how we got it. Oh no. Who's the we in this case, your other daughter? Yes. And you all live at home together. Yes. I understand. And you don't remember where it came from?

Probably a gift from somebody. Interesting. What was it? It's just like Maggie's little sister was bored and you're like, well, but look in the nightmare fruit closet. And so have you always hated it when it was presented to you? I'm sure I politely accepted it when I was given it upon my return home But I I have never had fond feelings right I noticed that it's empty. You've never put anything

No, I never any no change has ever been in that paving. No, I see and where has it lived these past several years So aside from inside your head For a while it was on my bookshelf and then recently for the past three years It's been hidden behind things on top of a bookshelf Uh-huh for so long that I thought I had you know that only made it you know that only makes it angrier though I know Rediscovery I was more scared. Yeah. But I was cleaning, I think, the past couple of months, and we rediscovered it.

My mom was very relieved because she would have been upset if it had left the house. You would be upset if this pineapple left the house, Laura? Well, not if she moved out and wanted to take it with her. I would be upset if she got rid of it. Why? Well, because. She got rid of it. Why? Well, because...

She doesn't like it. And it scares her. And yet it has become her burden. Is it the case that if she were to get rid of it, then it would have revenge upon you? Have you made a sick devil's pact with this demon spawn, or what? I think it's cute, and it's says expression of love from her little sister and me

Well, of course, it's an expression of love, but she hates it. Hmm. I Don't know. Of course. It's an expression of love. It strikes me as possibly an expression of contempt. I Think it's pretty clear. Is it is don't you you you appreciate this as an expression of love, don't you? Yes, I appreciate it's not an act of hate. No No, it was though it frightens you and terrorizes you every day was not meant It was not the intention was not the thought is there the thought yes the thought that counts Now that it now that you have revealed that you dislike it and in fact terrifies you Why don't you just throw it away?

Well, because it's like when you get like clothes You don't want to wear from your grandma or something like it's a gift. You feel like you need to keep How does it feel as a mother? To have your gift of a haunted pineapple Compared to clothes you don't want from your grandmother Yeah, that would make me hurt if my child said that considering I painted that with love, okay Court reasons have you ever done anything besides hiding it to make it less scary On the bottom there should be eyelids Yeah, that my mom made for it on the bottom of the bottom, there should be eyelids

that my mom made for it. On the bottom of the pineapple, there should be eyelids. I tried to give it eyelids to make the eyes less scary. Oh, I see. It looks like two yellow pieces of Post-it note. Yeah, they're yellow stickers that I cut into eyelid shapes. It doesn't help. Very crafty.

Jesse, would you put the eyelids on that pineapple, and I'll take a look and see if it helps? I mean, I hate the idea of underneath eyelids so much. I don't like them more as eyelids. Oh, you dropped one of his lids. I think it's worse. Yeah, it's worse. It is worse. It's so much worse.

Let me see. Oh no. Yeah. Now he looks like a white dude in San Diego going, no bueno. Yeah. Dude, you're putting change in me? Yeah, now this haunted doll looks like it's stoned out of its mind.

Yeah. That doesn't make it's stoned out of its mind. That doesn't make it better. No, it doesn't. When did you make the eyelids? Maybe a month ago? Yeah, whenever it was rediscovered on my bookshelf. Yeah, when I learned that Maggie had hidden it and that it was because of the eyes, I thought maybe the... clearly not, but I thought the eyelids would help.

How did you feel when it was missing, Laura? Well, I didn't really, Maggie has a lot of stuff on her bookshelves, so it's not something that I would automatically clock as missing. So I didn't really know that it had been hidden until she revealed it again. Sure. And I think I was kind of outraged and said, why have you been hiding that? Yeah. When the pineapple was missing and your daughter for once was at peace in her life, you didn't happen to notice even a change. It just seemed like, oh, this is nice

that my daughter is happy for once. It's not as though you knew that the pineapple was gone. You were able to move on with your life and the pineapple was not part of it. Yeah, and I trusted... So why shouldn't I smash it on stage? Wow. You understand that if I rule in your favor Maggie,

I will be smashing it on stage. You might release the spirit. Oh, I'm willing to take that. I give you full blessing. I'm willing to take that. Believe me, I have battled many major and minor arcana. No demon can fight the power of sexy podcast host. You make it a fair point.

I will take, I will absorb that creature and I will spit it out later. Laura, when you and Maggie's sister made this and gave it to Maggie initially, did you give it to her because you thought she would like it? I think we gave it to her... And be honest. Yeah, I don't... I think we gave it to her as look at what we made while you were away because we missed you more than evaluating the aesthetics of it. Well you certainly didn't evaluate the aesthetics. Yeah. If you had evaluate... you may have miss evaluated the aesthetics. I will stop impugning your motives or your taste. Okay.

Obviously, you know, you didn't realize that this was a horror spawn. You did want to do something nice. Remind me where Maggie was when she came back. She was away at a residential summer fine arts program. Right, okay. Had been away for a while. You missed her. How old was she at that time? Seventeen, seventeen.

Yeah. Still, you know, you were getting ready to say goodbye to your, one of your babies. Yes. Because now Maggie is an adult. Yes. And you gave her a fairly juvenile gift. Yeah.

I presume to, like all parents wish to do, trap her in childhood forever and not allow her to mature. Exactly. Right. Honestly, I feel I've aged 10 years just from having to look at it. But does it have a name, by the way? No. Does it have a name, Laura? Maggie says no, but...

I give things names, so I was calling it Piney, but that's not very creative. Oh, yes, your mother has a relationship with this that goes deeper than you realize. I didn't, I know. This is a totem to your youth. There's one thing she's trying to save in here, and it's not quarters.

It's your childhood. My youthful spirit. Your youthful spirit. She's trying to trap you in this piney. Maybe that's why you reject it. Because you are older now. You are an adult. You still live at home, as many adults do,

but you're not a 17-year-old anymore coming back from summer camp. You're an adult person who wants to smash a pineapple. Yeah, as many adults do. Laura, when you contemplate, let's leave you the smashing out of this for a moment. When you contemplate this going into the trash or going out of your lives in some way, how does that make you feel? I would be sad if we had to get rid of it completely. Go on. What would it mean to you?

What would it represent? Well, I like the I like weird things. Open your eyes. Yeah, I'm both at once is better. Dude, you ripped my lids. You can also give him angry eyes. That's exciting. Oh, OK.

I'll work on that. All right. I would feel disappointed because I think that he could become a valuable family heirloom that has passed down to future generations. Yeah. Like if you filled him with something valuable? Yeah. Yeah.

Many, many gold coins. I could encase him in resin. Piney is angry now. Piney doesn't like to be judged based on his wealth. Or his appearance. Based on his monetary value. He likes to be judged based on his wealth. Or his appearance. Based on his monetary value. He likes to be judged based on his emotional value. You really want to pass this down to another generation?

Yeah, I really would. You have a younger daughter. Why don't you curse her with it? Well, she helped make it for her sister. Where is she, by the way? We've never seen her. But she did send a sealed brief to bring to the court and we don't know what it says. She sent a sealed brief? Yes, I have it right here. Oh, and it's in the shoebox as well? We don't know what she wrote.

Oh, now here's a quick question. Maybe this wasn't meant to be seen by the eyes of humans. I mean, before I open this envelope, if I open this, is my face gonna melt like in Raiders of the Lost Ark? Not unless she has powers I'm unaware of. Yeah, you're right. Since I'm holding this microphone in one hand, Jesse, you do it. Okay. Maggie should keep the pineapple because we all work very hard on it and it's a symbol of our love. She doesn't need to display it prominently, but she shouldn't hide it behind

books on her shelf or tug it away in her closet. Maybe she can just have the eyes peeking out somewhere. Or she could place it in a corner of her room that not many people see when they first enter. In any case, I believe the pineapple should not be thrown away or hidden. Its youthful eyes and friendly smile will serve as encouragement to Maggie and will be a bright reminder of our love for her. Also please Mr. Judge John Hodgman, your honor, tell Maggie to stop mocking me whenever I speak thank you. P.S. I liked you in community. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Piney and I are going to go into my chambers and we're going to talk it over. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Maggie, how are you feeling about your chances here? Worse now that the letter from my sister has been read and she's appealed to flattery. Were you expecting something else from your sister? No, I do think the answer would be different if I asked her if she would put the pineapple in her room.

I think it's more that I have the burden, as Judge John Hodgman put it. I feel like from reading that letter that your sister knows the pineapple's dark power in a way that maybe your mom doesn't. Laura, how are you feeling about your chances? Well, I think the letter definitely helped, but I am also not sure that the judge is gonna try to force something on Maggie that she doesn't want. Yeah, you did kind of get zagged on

in the first half of this. Maybe a little bit. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. CHEERING APPLAUSE While I was in my chambers, Piney and I were talking.

Piney has gone into a trance, as you can see. And has asked if, because it cannot speak human language, has asked if it can communicate through me. Do you mind? Not at all. This may be disturbing. It's been some time since I've channeled an entity. And it is Halloween after all, so the vibrations may be very strong. So while Piney is sleeping, I will attempt to

make contact with the entity known as Piney and No, not you Tom Waits. Piney. Let the record reflect that Piney's face has occupied the judges. Hey Laura. Hey Piney. Thanks for bringing me to life. You're welcome. It was quite a day when you fainted me. With the other daughter whose name I forget.

Before you, I was just an idea. I was nothing. Just an entity. Ten million years old, trapped in an ice floe in Antarctica, until you gave me shape and form in the shape of a pineapple. Ironic, isn't it? There's no fruit in Antarctica where I sleep among the old gods. Anyway, a lot of my cousins want to come back to life

and reclaim this earth and this dimension for themselves. But you know me, Laura. I don't want that. I just want a home. I'd love to be in a home that loves me and doesn't hate me. I hate how it walks. Hi Maggie. Hi. Remember when you hit me?

I do. I used to be your piggy bank in your room and then you felt ashamed of me and you put me behind the closet. You put me behind the bookshelf, the books. What was that book you put me behind the closet you put me behind the bookshelf the books what was that book you put me behind again vacation land by John Hodgman yeah that's the one pretty markish I read that book a dozen times wondering when you would ever let me look at you again. Why did you try to hide me? The thing your mother and Josie, yeah Josie, made? Be honest, you can tell Piney.

Oh, can I though? Yeah. I just, I feel like our connection. If you're honest with me, maybe I'll finally be free of this stupid ceramic pineapple body. I've got a slot in my back. No one's put any coins in there and I can't escape. It's a one-way slot for coins. My spirit yearns to return to the other planets and the other realms in which my beings rule

supreme. So please be honest with me and tell your mother why it's time for you to grow up and let go of childish things. I find your ceramic form utterly unsettling. Yeah, you know what? Me too. This is the first time we've really connected. Yeah, wish John Hodgman had been around to channel me.

Oh, I have an idea. Maybe I'll keep this form forever. No, no, no. No, no, no, Py, get out of my house. You tell your mother politely that you'd like Piney to leave your room. I'll be free and John Hodgman will be able to return to his home and his wife who's a whole human being in her own right,

and his children who's a whole human being in her own right, and his children who he misses very much because they grew up and went away. I wish his children still lived with him, but as it happens parents have to let their children go even if they're living in the same house. It's their lives to lead now. You can't be held hostage by juvenile crafts forever. I'm trying to draft some talking points for your argument, dear mom. I appreciate it, thank you. All right, the floor is yours. I would appreciate it if Piney could find another home. In our house, just not in my room. Maybe a loving home in your room, since you find him so charming. Yeah!

What if we put Piney on the mantle in the living room? No! I want to be with you, Laura! I want to be in your room so I can see you forever. But I promise you, if you take me back and you can look and remember the wonderful time you had making that with Josie and everything else, that I will leave this horrible ceramic body and leave you in peace. If you put me on the mantle, I'll be in your head forever.

I'm okay with you being in my room. I would probably encase you in resin. What? I'm going to encase you in resin to preserve you forever. Encase me in resin? Yeah. Laura, that's fucked up. Wow.

John, are you okay? Judge Hodgman, are you here? Oh, gosh. What happened? We were briefly possessed. Is it still Halloween? Did I make a verdict? You did. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all.

Laura, Maggie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Now I believe that it is time for Swift Justice and yet. And yet earlier we suggested that we might be able to provide the good people of Charlottesville, Virginia with a celebrity guest. And we have Jesse Thorne. Will you please introduce our special guest? He's a New York Times columnist. He's the co-host of the Unclear and Present Danger podcast

about Cold War thriller movies, and perhaps most importantly, a celebrity serial reviewer. Please welcome Charlottesville's own Jamelle Bowie. Jamelle Bowie for the stage please. Hello. Thank you for being here. welcome Charlottesville's own Jamelle Bowie. Jamelle Bowie for the stage please. Hello. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

Welcome. Thank you so much for being here. As I mentioned to you backstage, I'm a huge fan, and I love your takes on movies, on your podcast, Unclear and Present Danger, and all the movie podcasts you appear on. You like scary movies, right? This is a scary movie season, right? I love scary movies, love to be spooked.

What's in your rotation these days? I'm actually, after this, I'm gonna go watch Maniac Cop. Maniac Cop? Maniac Cop, which is not, you might think, is this a bad lieutenant situation? But no, in Bad Lieutenant, Harvey Keitel is actually trying to do the job of a police officer.

In Maniac Cop, he's just, he's a maniac. Is Bruce Campbell in Maniac Cop? I don't think so, it's Robert Zidar. Oh, okay, he's in one of those. Maybe he's in Maniac Cop 2. So we've covered what happens in Maniac Cop, what happens in Bad Lieutenant, what happens in Bad Lieutenant, Port of Call New Orleans, directed by Werner Herzog.

Oh, God. Well, among other things, Nicolas Cage shoots a man because his soul is dancing. Yeah, that's true. Break dancing, specifically. Break dancing. There's a lizard cam. Yeah. What else? There's a lot of stuff in that movie. That's a special movie. It's a fair characterization. Now, you review cereals from time to time.

Occasionally. And you eat them on video. Yes. And because everyone loves the sound of people eating cereal on microphone. Apparently. It's true. What is the worst cereal that you've ever reviewed? Well, people who watch these things, which I'd like to

describe as a bit that got a little out of control, will remember that I tried a box or a bowl of the green onion chex cereal. Ha ha ha, yes. Say those words again. Green onion chex. Green onion checks. From the great nation of South Korea.

Right. So the thing about them is that I thought they were going to be like a salty snack. Right? Because conceptually, you know, you can imagine that in a checks mix. Yes.

But they were actually a sugary cereal flavored like green onion. Wow. Which is just like I don't I don't really understand what's what's going on with with what's what they're doing with the cereal but that's what it was so you know I put it in the bowl, put it with the milk, and had a really bad time. I gotta tell you, Judge Hodgman, like, obviously, working in show business such as it is, I know, you know, comedy people that are, like, my kids watch Minecraft Story Mode,

you're in that. Thank you. Paul Rubens is in that, who I know, Patton Oswalt is in that, who I know, and I'll, like, try and claim that I'm a success Thank you. Paul Rubens is in that, who I know. Patton Oswald is in that, who I know. And I'll like try and claim that I'm a success by telling them, oh, I know that person that's in that thing, right? Never worked at all, except for Jamelle Bowie.

Jamelle Bowie's serial reviews are literally my daughter's favorite form of media. Yeah. To the extent that not only has she been inspired to create her own series of video serial reviews, not for public distribution, they're only on the family group text, but she forced me and my wife to spend, I kid you not, $40 to buy green onions checks from South Korea, like a mail direct dropship from South Korea to our home I have tasted them and I have to say they're just as bad as he says What a nightmare and then she didn't want us to throw them away like I'm like Gracie

What do you want us to do with them now sure you can't throw them away? No, like they have a Laura and Maggie. Yeah, exactly Maybe if we're lucky, we'll have some serial justice to dispense a little later Maybe we'll get a sicko out here who might want to eat some of this terrible candy Why don't you know about the nasty freaks that listen to this show any nasty freaks in the audience tonight? Yeah Now we're talking I hear that the freaks come out at night usually that's typically when they do right? Yeah You know what I like about freaks?

What's that? They're all different shapes, sizes, and colors. Yeah, and when do they come out? At night. At night, that's terrific. Jamel, would you stick around and help us to spend some justice? Absolutely.

Thank you very much. Jesse Thorne, bring in the first litigants, please. Please welcome to the stage, Charlie and Miley. Charlie and Miley, please come to the stage. Wow. Thank you for dressing up. Who comes seeking justice in this fake courtroom? I do, Your Honor.

All right. Charlie, what is the nature of your complaint? I eat a lot of peanut butter. Terrific. And when I dirty a peanut butter knife... I wish the sentence just ended there and you said nothing. Everything would start to make more sense. I eat a lot of peanut butter, and whenever I get a knife peanut buttery,

I let the dog lick it because she likes peanut butter. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to wash it. Myla is concerned that I'm attempting to buy the dog very quickly. And I have some things that I want to unpack. You eat a lot of peanut butter. Yes. You're eating it with a knife. I put it on things with a knife, but sometimes I eat it with a spoon. I really actually want to clarify this. You aren't scooping it out with a knife when you eat it by itself, right?

You're using a spoon. You're keeping it even on the top, right? Yes. Okay, good. Really bothers me when I open a jar of peanut butter and I see just like a knife scooped out. Don't like that. You want the surface of the peanut butter in the jar to remain relatively smooth. Yes, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm a nice person to live with. I'm surprised you can find the peanut butter behind your Blu-ray collection. So sometimes you eat peanut butter with a spoon at night, which I commend. I've been there. it's good. Sometimes you spread it like a normal person,

using a knife onto a surface, like a cracker or a piece of bread. And then you feed that peanut butter off the knife to your dog, the dog's name is? Anela. Anela. And it's my dog. Excuse me, I do apologize. Do you cohabitate?

We do. I see. But it is your, Anela is your dog. Do you dispute that, Charlie? I'm a- Do you dispute it, Charlie? No. All right. You feed peanut butter on a knife to Mylai's dog. A butter knife, not a sharp knife. No, of course. You're not a monster. You're a parfait. Why do you have issue with this, Maile? So in co-parenting Anela, I have to do more of the unpleasant jobs of being a dog parent, namely cutting her nails, which she hates. Right.

Taking her to the vet, which she hates. Right. And giving her medicine once a month, which she hates. Sure. And I've noticed that since- And Charlie doesn't do any of that stuff. I was about to object. Uh, I'll allow it. I have- I was at the vet when we went three weeks ago.

I drove. Good for you. I- You said, I was at the vet, like it was just a coincidence. You're like, well, I I mean it was Friday night, so For what it's worth I was the one who held the dog while she got her blood drawn Is this not true? It is true. He did say for what it's worth. What's that worth? I don't know. What do you think Jamal? Knife full of peanut butter. Yeah, probably about a knife full of peanut butter. Treat yourself tonight to an extra knife of peanut butter

I will. But you can see that Miley does most of the dog parenting, the hard stuff, as they say. Miley is absolutely the primary dog parent. Yes. Like when you feed her the peanut butter, when stuff comes out the other side, who takes care of that? 50-50. Is that true?

Yeah, it's about 50-50. All right, fair, good. Then, all right, very good. So why do you hate it that he's feeding the dog peanut butter? So I've noticed that she is much more affectionate towards him since we've moved in together, which is natural. We cohabit. He's also a dog parent, and that makes sense.

Right. But I've noticed we do have separate bedrooms. Wow. Yes. Yes. That's wonderful. Yes. Yes. That's wonderful. Good for you.

So, alright, you sleep in separate bedrooms, and now I bet you Anel is going over to his bedroom a lot, right? Yes. Because he's putting peanut butter all over the sheets. She definitely gets a lot of peanut butter for him, and he also has more body heat, heat. Right, because he runs hot. Hot parfait, that's your friend Charlie. Are you trying to purchase Amela's affections with this peanut butter gambit Charlie?

Yes or no, be honest. I will fully admit I appreciate the love that I get from the dog when I give her peanut butter, but I also would be eating the peanut butter anyway. It's not like I'm taking the jar and surreptitiously opening it for her. I'm eating lots of peanut butter anyway. The dog is benefiting from the peanut butter. Jamal, do you have a dog? I do. Do you have any thoughts about dogs playing favorites in a family?

You know, I think that if it is a case of just incidentally giving the dog peanut butter, that's that's fine it happens if I'm eating a snack and my dog comes up and she's like I want a snack sure why not right but if you are feeding the dog additional food for the specific purpose of gaining more affection yeah I think I think that's terrible Wow Charlie are you terrible I said so I have never with the exception of a necessary situation where the dog needed peanut butter, by mutual agreement, I have never given the dog non-bi-product peanut butter.

Non-bi-product? Peanut butter, there was not- Have you had some Jordan Omens before this show? So many. Yeah. Maylee, what is Charlie trying to say? He's trying to say that he has never opened the jar of peanut butter exclusively for the purpose

of giving the dog peanut butter. Do you think he's attempting to purchase affection? A little bit. And do you think he's succeeding? Yes. What would you have me order if I were to rule in your favor? So we actually have a temporary injunction in place

that he put against himself. Did you go to another judge? No, it's just wisdom from listening throughout the years. Thank you. Pantering. Well, he filed a temporary injunction against himself that half the times he gets to eat peanut butter, he gives me the spoon or the knife for the dog to lick. Oh, boy, you guys know how to do it right. You sleep in two separate bedrooms.

You share the peanut butter spoon. You are attempting to trick the dog into loving you both. Does Charlie use any other snacks to sway Anela? Cheese. Cheese. Tell me about the cheese tax, Charlie. I did not bring the cheese tax into this household. Myla saw a TikTok about the cheese tax, and then the cheese tax was instit household my life saw a tick-tock about the cheese tax and then the cheese tax was

Instituted and I just I pay my taxes imagine for a moment that I don't use tick-tock What is the cheese tax? Do you know Jamel? I do know I do know that you use a tick-tock right? I use thick talk to tell me what the cheese tax the cheese tax is when you open up your refrigerator and open up the Cheese drawer if dog here is you're required to pay the dog the cheese tax Fair up the cheese drawer if the dog hears you're required to pay the dog the cheese tax. Fair. So, you have the temporary injunction. What do you want me to do? I would like to make it permanent.

Charlie, are you opposed? The temporary injunction is fine, but I eat a lot of peanut butter alone and I don't want to have to seek out Mylay with a peanut butter. Look, will you stop bragging about the amount of peanut butter you eat Yeah, so I will not wait. What are we talking about here? We're talking about sort of like a typical 16 ounce jar per week to 16 ounce jar per week chunky creamy all-natural What I won't buzz market a large store that the yogurt came from? But the I had a double pack from that large store each month the past few months. Look, your relationship with peanut butter is between you and the peanut butter, and

I hope it's good. Your argument is that you eat so much of it that it's onerous upon you to find melee and give them the spoon or the knife to feed Inela half the time, because you're doing it all hours of the night. You'd have to wake melee up to do it, correct? This is where I found myself, yes. All right, let me just say this. The injunction is going to be permanent,

but good news for you, this is why you have two bedrooms, because you can keep peanut butter in your room and close the door and have solo time with your peanut butter. And Anela will never know. I find the injunction is upheld. with your peanut butter. And Enelo will never know. The injunction is upheld. Thank you, Charlie, in my way. Judge John Hodgman, we are about to head back out on the road,

heading to a part of the Northeastern United States that frankly, I cannot identify. I look at it on a map. It just looks like a hazy blob to me. Let me explain to you. We're going to... Like trying to read a newspaper in a dream, John. Jesse, let me explain. New England is a region of Southeastern Canada, aka Northeastern United States. region of southeastern Canada, a.k.a. Northeastern United States. It is a haunted region of Stephen King and H.P. Lovecraft, Scaryville. And indeed, we are going to Massachusetts, Vermont and Maine.

Now, both of our shows in Massachusetts are sold out. You missed out if you were wanting to go there. But we have tickets available still in a few days in Burlington, Vermont, our very first Judge John Hodgman show in Vermont. And then the next day we're returning to the State Theater in Portland, Maine, where we always have a good time judging local Maine style cases and hearing some of that great Maine style jazz performed by Joel, the Maine man man from WERU and the Night and Day Trio. It's always a lot of fun. So please go and get your tickets now at maximum fun.org slash events before they go away for new England and also submit your disputes at maximum fun.org

slash JJ HO and next year what in the new year we will be traveling to Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles, and maybe we'll visit a city, a certain city that's in between Portland and Los Angeles, and maybe we'll visit a city, a certain city that's in between Portland and Los Angeles and it's not Reading. A certain city by the Bay. It's it territory perhaps Stabes. Not ours to announce, but. Stand by announcements will be coming very shortly.

I believe maximumfund.org slash events is where you can go for the information about all of those shows. We'll see you in all of those places. It's going to be a great time. Jesse, if I go to MaximumFun.org slash events to get information about all those shows, and I specifically wanted some more information on our show in Los Angeles, at the Dynasty Typewriter, what more information would I discover? You would discover that Jordan Jesse Goh will also be performing on that show. And speaking of, if you're in Los Angeles,

on November 2nd at 3 p.m., Jordan and I will be performing alongside comic book legend Brian Michael Bendis and Elliot Kalin from the Flophouse at the Revenge of Block Party at Revenge of Comic Books and Pinball in Eagle Rock. That show will be from 3 to 4 p.m. but Jordan will be there signing comics all day long along with 20,000 other amazing comic book celebrities including

our friend Patton Oswalt and Josh Gad and lots of other really cool people. That's November 2nd at Revenge of Comics and Pinball in Eagle Rock in Los Angeles. Jordan Jesse Goh goes on at 3 p.m. So I hope it's free. Hope everybody will come out. Maximumfun.org slash events is where to go whenever you wanna find out

what your favorite Maximum Fun hosts are doing out there in the world, in the world of events,, all the Judge John Hodgman shows are there, the event that Jesse just announced are there, you should bookmark it, go there, buy some tickets, it's a great time to buy tickets for people in your life, maybe as stocking stuffers for those January and February shows we got coming up on the west coast, MaximumFun org slash events. I keep saying the link only because a I want you to buy tickets and B, because I want you to enjoy it. It's better when you're there. And we have a lot of fun at these shows and love to say hi. So let's get back to our show

in Charlottesville. Shall we Jesse? Indeed. Let's welcome to the stage Jennifer and will will is an ophthalmologist and Jennifer is getting her master's degree in counseling. In their spare time, Jennifer and Will are musicians and play music together at wineries. Jennifer and Will, welcome to the court of Judge Sean Hodgman. Who seeks justice in this court please? I do, thank you. You are Jennifer?

Yes. Great. May I ask Will a question first? Sure. This will determine it. This is for all the marbles, for all the black jelly beans. Will, you're an ophthalmologist? Yes. Spell it. I also have a little bit of dyslexia too. No, it's O-P-H-T-H. Keep going. A-L-M-O-L-O-G-I-S-T. Say it again?

O-P-H-T-H-A-L-M-O-L-O-G-I-S-T. You did a good job. Yeah, that's correct. Very good. I am temporarily finding in your favor, but we're going to hear the case anyway. Just for that, you get one gavel. There we go. All right, Jennifer, what is the nature of the justice that you seek?

The situation is that Will pours milk before cereal. Yeah, that's right. It's weird. I know. I told you there were some nasty freaks here. You're saying that when we'll we'll explain you pour milk into the bowl and then put the cereal in. Yes, correct. Don't let the Jordan Amman stop you from speaking, please. That is correct. Why do you do this? I think that in order to get the ratio right, if you already have the cereal in the bowl,

you can't see exactly how much milk you're pouring. So if you pour the milk first, you know exactly how much to get the right ratio. What's the ratio for you? Like how wet, how dry? It depends on the cereal. It depends on the cereal. You, it means... Go ahead. It matters more that it's fresh, you know? Banana bread Cheerios. Banana bread Cheerios, it should be, you know, 50-50. They should, it should be almost covered. So you're saying you put the cereal in first and then you pour the milk you might pour in too much milk. It's hard to gauge too much, too little. And you're looking, you're trying to avoid SOG.

They're trying to avoid SOG? I'm trying to avoid SOG. You're trying to achieve SOG? The most important thing is milk wastage and what we teach the children, because they're notorious milk wasters. And I want them to pour in just a little bit of milk. Please tell me you have children.

Three children. Three children, you do have children? Real children, yes. So you're trying to keep them from wasting the milk. Jamel, what do you think about that? I say my first question is, are you drinking the cereal milk at all? Are you tossing it? Or to save it, are you reusing it? Because if you're worried about wasting the milk, I mean, like as you used to drink the cereal milk, that's like half the fun. That's like half the reason you eat cereal

in the first place. For the adults, we definitely wouldn't waste either cereal or milk left over, but the kids would just, it's almost like they wanna leave like a whole bunch of milk. Yeah, they're kids. And the morning rush trying to get them to school, maybe they run out of time and they don't drink the milk,

or they say, I'm too full, and they run off and put their shoes on and go, yeah, so. Yeah, but is that? That's a concern. We don't want a bunch of milk left over. So it sounds like you're making, you're making Will's case for him, Jennifer. No, I think it's more wasteful what he's doing.

Go on. Well, you just need a little bit of milk to cover the cereal. I think maybe there's a misunderstanding here on what you're really after. For me it's the cereal is what you're really after and the milk is just covering it. You just want it to be a little a little milk moist. Exactly. Gross. Not your preference. People like what they like, but milk moist. I wish I had never said that. It's an unfortunate combination of words. You just want to wet it a little with a little bit of moist milk.

But you're in the same ballpark as Will because you take this from the point of view, you start from the premise of milk wastage. not saying that wills a weirdo. Well, even though we all agree that it's true both can be true Okay, tell me more is will a weirdo. Yes or no, we agree We don't want them to waste a lot of milk, but we see a different solution to the problem But is will a weirdo yes or no, yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. She and everybody else is horrified by the practice. Why do you think we're so horrified by it? Jessie Jamel, why is it so weird? I mean, well, first of all, who does it? I'm the only one I know. I've never seen this in my life. I've watched a lot of people with cereal in my time, and I've never seen someone pour the milk first. I'm just curious, is this like a recent innovation

in your life? Is this something you started doing as a child and there was no adult who loved you enough to stop? No, I've been doing it forever. Yeah, no, because I remember my grandfather one time, I poured the milk first and then I poured the cereal and he looked at me and he said, now I've seen everything. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

It's been going on for a long time. I figured I cracked this nut a long time ago. I feel like your best way out of this would have just been to be like, it was a Casper Hauser situation. Like, I grew up in a cage in a basement eating cereal this way and didn't know how to do it. Do you remember the first time you had the idea?

I don't. Because I guarantee you the first time you did that, how old do you think you were when your grandfather like burned his disapproval of you into your brain for the rest of your life? This, this was, I mean, that couldn't have been, that was several years ago. That was five years ago, Max. I was an adult. I was an adult you oh you were I thought there's something you've done since you were a kid I think might have been yeah I don't

remember converting over which your grandfather didn't witness it when you were a kid I think so but he I don't not sure he was super attentive I'm sure he would have noticed before your grandfather wasn't one of these people who watches a lot of people eat cereal like this guy. Correct. This guy's weird brag earlier. I'm just trying to determine, and please be honest here, Will, to the best of your ability. On the one hand, you might be a typical dad

in a heterosexual relationship Who has three kids and then realizes you're not the center of attention anymore and you start coming up with systems to do things differently Like oh, I just discovered a great new way to wash the dishes or to watch television. Everyone get upside down or whatever Like oh, I'm gonna do it different because it's we're gonna save milk. I play ukulele and sing now There's almost certainly an element of that. I'm starting a podcast. I'm sexy podcast host But like I want to know like is this something that you did and you and you retconned The milk wastage argument to cover for it or is the milk wastage argument?

the real The real reason and is wastage a word? Yeah that's a word. Is that a word? All right. I think it's probably retconned completely. You think it's retconned? It's just something you like to do. Yeah. Does it taste better? No but it feels better. It feels better. If you put them in, if you put them into the bowl in the correct order would it be as though you were eating them, holding the spoon in your left hand? You mean the correct order, you mean milk and then cereal? All right, well.

Just clarifying, Judge. Hold you in contempt of court. Anyone who's held in contempt of court gets a jelly bean thrown at him. Don't test me. Jennifer, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me order? I sort of like the peanut butter situation.

If he wants to have weird milk. First he gets his own bedroom. Milk before cereal in a glass, I will add. Wait, what? In a glass. Do you eat cereal out of a glass, sir? Is it like a highball glass, or are you like? It's pretty small.

That's a different situation. Or a martini glass would be very elegant. That would be cereal at night. That's only nighttime cereal. Give me a double of Soap Hill Puffs. Nighttime cereal you put in a glass. After five it's a cocktail. Yeah, exactly.

Then it does taste better. That does make it taste better. Why does it taste better in a glass? I think for the same reason that for a wine glass it kind of directs the fumes towards your nose. That's the only theory I can come up with. What kind of glass are we talking about? Highball? It's like a Durel X, the tall one.

Tea glass, would you call it? I don't know. You might have, well, if you're from Virginia, you might drink tea. But a glass glass. OK, I understand. And if I were to rule in your favor, Will, you would have me at least run the experiment

to see if your method works. Yes, I think- I don't think there's anything we can do, but run the experiment. What do you think, Jamel? You're the professional serial tester. I'm actually stuck, here I'm stuck with the cereal out of a glass thing.

This is really- Yeah. Say, well, producer Laura Volk, would you bring out the cereals, please? This is our live producer, Laura Volk. You see her a little later on. She's been helping us Just hand those to Jamel. Yeah, just give that stuff to Jamel, please since it's Halloween We've we've got all of the monster cereals that are available Not to buzz market anything, but these are your classic monster cereals your chocula your blueberry your Frankenberry

There's a new one, which is creepyepy Carmella, who is a zombie who apparently is Frankenberry's lost cousin or something like that. I'm going to open this while Laura is looking. Oh, here comes Laura with a glass, couple of glasses, so we can try Will's thing. Jesse, would you mind helping set Jemel up there? So we're going to do- Wait, the only one who's going to be eating this? Yeah. All right, well, I guess I should've expected that so will I want you to observe what's happening here?

We have one bowl with the cereal in it and we're gonna add milk to it So what I would like you to do Jamal if you will is when you're ready Pull pour milk into the empty bowl, and then milk over the cereal. Now, we're going to have you review both of them and determine whether there is a difference in your experience, and then review the cereal on its own. I will pour the milk here first. This is so weird. And how much do I pour? How do I gauge? Is that the right amount? Or do you, you probably have a milk jigger at home. Is it like, wait, two fingers of milk? Is that what I'm looking for? No, you know when it's right.

All right. Is that about right? Yeah, you just got a feeling. Honestly, the second Jamel did that, I felt like maybe I was a cat in a cartoon. And I'm gonna I'm gonna pour some say well say say when will for that one just keep pouring. We're trying not to waste the milk. That's not my side of the experiment. Okay. To keep keep pouring and you don't even get full milk coverage.

This is an insane way of eating cereal. All right. Will, go back to your microphone, please, now that you've observed. You see why I don't want my children taught this method. It just floats on the top. It's confusing. I'm going to try this traditional method first.

You can put that down. We really need to get the chewing and slurping on mic. So Jamel is trying it here. You can hear the crunch. It's cereal. Tastes like regular cereal. Tastes like regular cereal. Now he's trying this nasty one. Now this, uh, there's actually a meaningful difference here.

And that is that this is like still half dry. It's like it's still unpleasant and dry because it's not really covered in all the milk. Yeah. And that was even after I saw you do you anticipate that potential problem and try and do a few classic swirlies with your spoon. Yeah yeah yeah. To try and get a little Dunkaroo action and you failed. Doesn't work. Okay so as for the cereal itself it's not good. There goes our sponsorship. Where is it on the green onion check scale? I mean it's it's no it's sort of like on the

It's closer to the peeps cereal In terms of bad cereals. Oh that sounds very sweet. Yeah, so it's very sweet. It has like it I mean it tastes like it's nothing but corn and It's very sweet. It has like, I mean, it tastes like it's nothing but corn. And it's like, it's extremely cloying. It's like very unpleasant. It's very unpleasant right now in my mouth. Sorry. So I can try it in the, in the, in the, in the cup here. Yeah. But you have to do it Will's way, which is milk first. Milk first.

Will, I'll pour the milk. Will, you tell me when to stop. Okay. can you see it from all the way over there good thumbs up from will just yell out just go Cringe when we reach too much. That's gotta be about good. Yeah, six ounces of milk. Yeah, well, we don't want to waste it On here Who's taking the milk home after? Can we keep that? Yeah. This is even crazier because you can't even judge anything. Would you just fill it up to the top?

Equal parts, would you say? Like, should he come to the rim with his monster cereal? Yeah, you'll see. It's like an iceberg. You can see the part above the milk level. Oh, you got to drink it. You can't use a spoon. Okay. Excuse me? What?

What? Well, you don't want to have to wash a spoon. That's what the dog is for. I gotta... Careful. Careful. He's one of the most brilliant men on earth. He's gonna choke to death on my stage.

Because Will likes to eat cereal out of a glass at night. Jermell brings the same sense of thoroughness to this operation that he does to writing about the Constitution in the New York Times. I don't, I don't, can I curse? Yes. If you have to. I don't know what the fuck this is. I find in favor of Jermell Billy all day long.

Jennifer and Will, get out of here. I find in favor of Jamel Billy all day long. Jennifer and Will, get out of here. Go trick or treating you crazy kids. That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Our thanks to Reddit user TurduckenEverest for naming the case in this episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. We're on YouTube and TikTok at JudgeJohnHodgmanPod. Hey, I also want to shout out a rave review

and five stars from listener Sam on Apple Podcast. Thank you, Sam. Sam calls the show funny and heartwarming going on to say, I found this podcast looking for intelligent humor, which it never fails to deliver. Wow, thank you. But it is the wisdom and empathy with which JJ Ho interviews the claimants and delivers his verdicts that give it a different dimension than any other humor podcast I have found. It is my go-to show. Thank you so much for making us your go-to, Sam, and if you're

listening right now on Apple Podcasts, why not leave a review and dare I ask, five star rating right now? It really does help listeners discover the show. And the same goes for Pocket Casts too now. You can rate and review your favorite podcast, AKA Judge John Hodgman on Pocket Casts. You can also leave a comment on this episode in Spotify. You can leave a comment on our YouTube channel as well at Judge John Hodgman

pod, or if you want to introduce someone to the show, bring a friend to one of our live shows, truly all those likes and comments, reviews, and especially shares really do matter to us. So thank you very much. The judge John Hodgman podcast was created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne. Our touring producer was Laura Valk. This episode recorded by Steven Cologne,attie Lopez is our social media manager. AJ McKeon, our podcast editor. Daniel Spear, our video editor. Our producer is Jennifer Marmor. We'll talk to you next

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