Judge John Hodgman - Live in Washington DC at the Lincoln Theatre

Episode Date: February 19, 2020

This week’s episode was recorded LIVE in Washington D.C. at the Lincoln Theatre. First up, “Emergency You In Court.” Sarah files suit against her mother Susan. Susan is a volunteer EMT in a rural community. Sarah would like her mother to refrain from responding to emergency calls when Sarah is in town visiting. Susan feels a responsibility to respond to the calls whenever they come through. Then, the judge and bailiff are joined by special guest Linda Holmes, of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, and author of Evvie Drake Starts Over. Together they’ll dispense Swift Justice on cases having to do with ordering a latte, scrambled pancakes, and confronting your neighbors. Plus music from Brian Farrow and a cameo by Washington DC's own Jade Jones!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This episode recorded live on stage in Washington, D.C. at the Lincoln Theater. We have some excellent cases for you. And we were joined on stage by our friend Linda Holmes from the Pop Culture Happy Hour. And our musical guest was the great Brian Farrow. It was a really fun night and we're so happy to share it with you right now let's go to the stage

washington dc you've come to us desperate for justice and we're here at the lincoln theater to deliver let's bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome to the stage Sarah and Susan! Tonight's case, Emergency U in Court. Sarah files case against her mother, Susan. Susan is a volunteer EMT in a rural community. Sarah would like her mother to refrain from responding to emergency calls when Sarah is in town visiting. Susan feels a responsibility to respond to the calls whenever they come through.

Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference. Thank you. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, I yield my time on the floor to D.C. native Jade Jones for the cultural reference. Please step forward.

So yielded. When I get up all in ya We can hear the angels calling us And we can see the sunrise before us And when I'm in that thing, I make your body sing. I make her say wee-oo-wee-oo-wee, wee-oo-wee-oo-wee, wee-oo-wee-oo-wee,

like a cop car. wee-oo-wee-oo-wee, wee-oo-wee-oo-wee, wee-oo-wee-oo-wee. Thank you, Jade. Jade Jones. Stand by, please, Jade. Please swear them in, bailiff Jesse Thorne. Sarah and Susan, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has never been an EMT, only a fraudulent medical doctor? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Sarah and Susan, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can either of you name the piece of popular culture that Jade Jones sang when we entered the courtroom?

Susan, let's start with you. I think I heard it on TV show Active 911. You heard it on the TV show 911. Yeah. Is that a TV show? It is. It's a real TV show. What's that?

It's a real TV show. It's a real TV show? What's that? It's a real TV show. It's a real TV show? And as a volunteer EMT, is it your favorite TV show? It's one I enjoy. I don't get enough calls. Let's get some pretend calls up in here. Sarah, what's your guess? My guess is it's that song that goes like,

wee-oo, wee-oo, wee-oo, wee-oo. Like a cop car. That one. Well, it's not a bad guess. We'll add that into the guest book, but my question I have to ask, I apologize, Sarah, is do you know the name of the song? The name of the song.

No, of course not. Well, guess what? Neither do I. Jay, what is the name of the song, please? The name of the song is Mrs. Officer by Lil Wayne. Mrs. Officer by Lil Wayne as performed by Jade Jones. And Jade... So, Jade, you're a D.C. native,

and you're a theater person and a performer. What's going on with you these days here in the District of Columbia? Sure, I just finished Into the Woods at the Ford's Theater, not to be confused with the Lincoln Theater. Right, of course. People easily confuse it because Ford's Lincoln. We get it.

Oh, and this place totally named itself Lincoln Theater to confuse people. They're going to think Lincoln died here. Then they're going to come, all the podcasts are going to come here. All the history nerds are going to be like, let's go to Sixth Emperor Tyrannus Land. We got tricked. Correct, yes.

So I'm a musical theater actress. I will be working at the Shakespeare Theater for the next six months. So if you like high art, come out and see it. My Instagram is littyofficial. I'm not making that up. So if you like Instagram, you can follow me. How do you spell that? L-I-T-T-Y

LittyOfficial. All I wanted to know was that there was no underscore between Litty and official because all underscores are cancelled. Alright. Jay Jones, thank you very much. We're going to hear the case now. Let's get to the case.

Sarah and Susan. Sarah, you bring the complaint against Susan, your mother. Is that correct? That is correct, yes. And you, Susan, you live here in the D.C. area or no? No, I live in the northern Shenandoah Valley, in a valley in Shenandoah Valley called Fort Valley. A valley within a valley?

That's some Inception stuff. valley in a valley in Shenandoah Valley called Fort Valley. A valley within a valley? That's some inception stuff. How deep does it go? Are you, I don't mean to be rude, but are you a mole person? Are you simply describing the center of the earth? It's a hanging valley. It's actually a bus. What are you talking about? A hanging, a hanging valley. A valley doesn't hang. A cliff hangs.

It was named by George Washington, right? Um, well. Wait a minute, Sarah. What's that supposed to mean about anything? The fact that it was named by George Washington is supposed to sort of fill me with utter reverence so I won't... I'll stop questioning the reality of what your mother is saying? Oh, well, if it was named by George Washington, our first president, oh... No, you know what?

I believe patriotism is questioning authority. And I question your authority, Susan. What is a hanging valley? It's a geological feature, and I don't remember how it, but it's actually above the Shenandoah Valley. So your valley's a little bit above the valley. So it's like, here's the plateau, valley, and then, ooh, valley. Well, not exactly, but yeah.

It says here you live in the Shenandoah Valley, but you technically live in the valley within the valley, the Hanging Valley, known only as Brigadoon, or what is it again? Fort Valley. Fort Valley. And there you are, a volunteer EMT? I'm a volunteer EMT. EMT being one of the great crossword puzzle answers. Those people know what I'm talking about. And how many calls a week do you get, would you say? We average one to two calls a week.

And you said we, so there's more than one of you? Yes. There's the active running EMTs. There's, um, about nine. And when you say active running EMTs, you're people, people who are, who are not volunteers or? No, no, we're all volunteers. Um, some people are not released, which means you're licensed to practice as an EMT. And some people just have not been released. And some people have just moved or gone away,

but they're still part of the fire department. Right. And so... That's how it goes in rural communities. It is. Right, I see you're wearing a hat, VFD hat. It's a very hard initialism to pronounce. Fort Valley Volunteer Fire Department, I presume. Yeah, we're all volunteer.

We don't charge for services. Oh, well, thank you. Unlike the rest of America. About eight of us, but a lot of them work outside of Fort Valley. Oh, okay. Over the mountain. Right. Just over the mountain or also through

the woods? A little bit of both, actually. And you never know who's in Fort Valley when a call happens. Right. So when a call happens, how do you get alerted? I wear a pager. Right. And I have a radio.

And it goes off. Is this a valley in ancient times? Yeah, I have a sub-question. Are you a drug dealer in 1994? You have a question within a question, a hanging question, as it were? Okay, you have a pager. I have a pager, and I stop whatever I'm doing, and I get my car, and I drive,

and it takes about five minutes to drive to the fire department. Right. And then... Maybe you should drive to where the person's having an emergency. It depends. Sometimes I do. Okay. Oh, right, because you don't have the ambulance parked in your driveway. I have a jump bag.

All the release DMTs in Fort Valley have a jump bag that has an AED and things that you can treat a trauma with. Do you have that with you tonight? Because I do a lot of heavy physical comedy. It's in the parking lot. It's wherever we parked when we got here. Okay, fine. I do take it with me wherever I go. Right.

I'm sorry. You're trying to answer my question seriously. I know. I'm sorry. I'm distracting you. No, no, no. If it's closer to me than the fire department, I go straight there. And then somebody can go to the fire department and bring the ambulance to me. Right. And so there's eight people. Four Valley is 20 miles long and five miles wide. And we have about nine released eight or nine EMTs that can...

Don't look to your daughter. She doesn't understand your life's work. She wants you to stop. And so if... She knows nothing of what life is like in Fort Valley. She's just hearing sounds coming out of your mouth and looking at you and wondering if they're like vampire weekend albums. I don't... Her life is meaningless. looking at you and wondering if they're like Vampire Weekend albums.

I don't... Her life is meaningless. It's just a long string of avocado toasts. So... I would follow that life path. Like, if it were just like avocado toast, avocado toast, leaving to a grave in greenwood cemetery in brooklyn i'm there i'm on my hands and knees i'm gonna eat that up follow that line anyway

susan i apologize and so we uh we meet and sometimes only two of us show up a driver and an emt and sometimes five or six people show up and when we get there we decide who's the best team to go and take the person to the hospital. And this discussion I presume takes about 45 minutes. No, it takes... Well, gosh, Susan, I don't know. I mean, you trained in CPR more recently. Let's get our certificates out and look at them.

Who was the most recent person to train in CPR? Will you hang on a second, ma'am? We're trying to figure this out. So let's roll for charisma real quick. Okay. And then you take them to the hospital. Right. Right.

And how did you get started in this line of not work, but volunteerism? We moved there in 2012. We have horses, and we found a beautiful place to move to with our horses. Right. And somebody that I met said, do you want to become an EMT? And I said, yeah. That's amazing. So when you say we, you're talking about you and your husband and your horses.

How many horses do you have? Now we have four big horses and two minis. Oh, wow. I have pictures. How tall are the minis? Let the record show that Susan is indicating about three and a half feet, maybe four. Follow-up question. Three.

Okay. Do you have any miniature donkeys known popularly as donks? No. I'm sorry, Jesse. I find it in your daughter's favor. Someday we'll find a case with donks for you.

What are the names of all the horses, including the miniature horses? Let's start with the four bigs and then go to the two mins. Belle, Wally, Zerio, Rags. Yeah, Zerio. Yeah, he's from Colorado. He's a paint. Therefore, I understand.

You may not know that's a common Coloradan name. For horses. Zerio. And the minis are Christopher Robin and Daisy. Yay, four horses. The miniature horses are kind of jerks though, right?

No. They're very sweet. They're really nice. Sarah's jumping in now to finally defend her mother. Well, like ponies you often hear have a lot of attitude. Ponies have bad attitudes. But minis are different. Minis are just little horses. They are their little horses.

Just munching on them carrots. I'm really upset that you didn't bring them today. But that's okay. You think you're upset, John? And you moved to Mysterious Valley with your horses in retirement, if I may ask ask or a change of life of some kind my husband is a consultant and so never understood what that meant it's a murderer for hire that's right i have to imagine okay so your husband retired from mysterious consultancy right and you moved to mysterious valley i know it's really called but i'm going to call it

mysterious valley mysterious hanging valley impossible valley usa and you just were asked to volunteer and you said yes and how many you know i don't want i know you don't want to brag but like how many lives would you say you've saved or been part of the saving of most of my job is taking sick people to the hospital i understand that um there have been um we're far enough thank you for that i'm certainly not saying you have to save a life every time or else it's not worth it like i'm really not saying you should say to whoever recruited you into this like this is every time or else it's not worth it. I'm really not saying you should say to whoever recruited you into this, like, this is boring. These are just sick people.

I thought it was going to be life or death every time. Yeah. I got so excited when I saw them plunge that needle into the heart in Pulp Fiction and this is just a bunch of whooping cough. Once or twice a year, we have somebody that we have to get

to the hospital very fast. We fly people out if they're having a stroke or a heart attack or have serious trauma. About twice a year, you would say, a life is preserved.

Intervention occurs that allows a life to continue. Yeah. And you've been, let's say, as part of the team, you are part of those efforts. And how many years have you been doing this? I think I've been released since 2014.

So that's five years ago. So at a minimum, you've been party to five life savings. Would that be fair to say, Susan? I think that's fair to say. So stipulated. The point I'm raising, Susan, is that your daughter, Sarah, would rather those people have died. Is that not so, Sarah? I think some people would say that. Yeah, I just did.

The fact that you are not saying no, no, no suggests to me that you agree with those people. Is that not so? That is not so. All right, finally, you put your human mask back on. Thank you for showing us who you are, though, to begin with. So, Sarah, where do you live in this world? I live in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Charlottesville, Virginia. Thank you. How are things there? They've been better. Yeah. No, actually, they might not have ever been better. I should stipulate that. Sounds like you enjoy living there.

Yeah, I do like living there, but there's some things, you know, a-brewin'. Yeah, it's happening everywhere. What do you do there in Charlottesville, if I may ask? I'm a grant writer for a small nonprofit women's mental health clinic. Oh, well, thank you for what you do as well. You are helping to save lives in a much, much more indirect way. I agree. But it is still important work.

I hope so. And from time to time, you make the journey over the hill and through the woods. It is a number of hills. And through the magic portal, you find the wardrobe and you the woods. It is a number of hills. You find the wardrobe and you walk through it into the impossible valley of Fort Valley. It's not an easy place to get to.

No? What's involved? Is there a funicular? Switchbacks. You have to go through the National Forest. That's why they have a volunteer fire and EMT department. That's true. Because people can't come in there to save lives.

You heard about the helicopter that they have to take in if anyone gets really sick. I mean, it's basically a death bowl. I know. And my parents moved there when they retired. Right, exactly. And so when you go and visit, and you're hanging out with your mom, and you're angry because she's responding to these emergency calls, tell me your side of the story so I may dissect it.

So I have two small children. They love to visit their grandparents. They love to look at the horses. Yeah, I was going to say grandparents, sure, but horses. You know what they're there for. She's got too many ponies. Little Daisy and little, what's the other little grandparents, sure, but horses. Yeah, I mean. You know what they're there for. She got too many ponies. Little Daisy and little, what's the other little one's name? Christopher Robin.

Christopher Robin. The whole audience is in unison. Christopher Robin. So your kids love to visit. Yes, they do. And so what happens? Let's just say you're there, you're hanging out, you know, doing something fun. And then all of a sudden these loud sounds go off and my mom's just

like you know like she just bolts what do you mean loud sounds just like loud tones i mean you call them tones right yeah oh this is the uh air horn or something yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's yeah what do they sound like sarah if you were going to impersonate them What do they sound like? Sarah, if you were going to impersonate them. They sound like... It's like... That's probably not it at all. What does it sound like?

Susan, was that a good impersonation or no? No. No, she says. Can you do it? I'm guessing. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Oh, yeah. I have a new intro.

And then, do-da. What was that? What was the last one? Do-da. And then... Do-da. No thank you. They have to change that one.

And then they tell you what it is. Where and what it is. They come over the radio then, John. It's over the radio. Hear me now! Do they come over live over a radio in your house? On my pager, yeah. Wherever I am.

Right, but does a voice start talking to you? Yes, it's 911. Oh, okay. It's the people you call when you call 911. So it's the 911 operators alert you. Push a button. And then they just start talking into the house. Right. And they say there is an emergency at blah blah blah blah. Who will respond?

And you jump up and say you jump up and you throw your children, your grandchildren off your lap. Yes. And you're like I cannot wait to get out of here. You just like trample over the Candyland set. Is this true or is this not true, Sarah? It feels that way.

It feels that way. You feel your mother is too responsive to these other emergencies and not responsive enough to your family time. Yeah, I think that's accurate. Okay, and when your mom jumps up and goes away, how does that make you feel? You know, I could feel a little bit abandoned or a little bit out of sorts because I'm not, this is not my house. Right. It's their house. And so I'm oftentimes alone with my two small children on a 20 acre horse farm in the middle of nowhere.

Right. And you're not, what if you run out of carrots? Then what are those little horses going to eat? She doesn't want us to play with the horses without her there. Susan, why not? Horses are large, dangerous flight animals that if you don't know how to behave around them because you don't come up and visit often enough that was good do you feel that sarah does not visit often enough i wish she could visit more often but she and her husband both work. It's difficult.

Well, isn't it the case then that since they cannot visit as often as any of you would like, I presume, that shouldn't you maybe turn your pager off and spend what time you have with them with them rather than leaving them at risk of being trampled by your wild horses? Sometimes I'm the only EMT in Fort Valley. I thought you said there were like eight or nine of them. But... Are they all just blowing it off? Yeah, they are.

Tell me, Sarah. So she is the person who takes the most calls year after year. She's the lieutenant, the EMS lieutenant. So she's like the most responsible... So she's not Mrs. Officer, she's Mrs. Lieutenant. Yes, she's the lieutenant. But she, I think at times people know that she's like the most responsible. So she's not Mrs. Officer, she's Mrs. Lieutenant. Yes, she's the lieutenant. But she, I think at times people know that she's there and that she's going to respond to all the calls. And so they're like, meh.

What, you're talking about sick people? They're like, oh, Susan's the only one left. I think this is a good time to get sick. The other EMTs. Oh, I see. So I think that they know that she's dependable so they can just sort of like. Oh, they're taking advantage of her.

They're taking advantage of her, yeah. Do you have any actual evidence that this conspiracy theory is true? Susan is shaking her head no. Sarah says she knows. She understands. I get it. Susan, do you have any other option? Can you press the pause button?

Can you assign your responsibilities for a period of time to another volunteer EMT? That's not how we work. We don't take duty shifts because you can go a week or more without a call. And so if your duty, you know, you spend all that time waiting for something to happen that never happens. So the way it works there is if you are in Fort Valley and able to respond you go when you get to the call like I said earlier the person who is best able to deal with the whatever the situation is does so does so right I am a top responder, but I'm not.

Oh, not to brag. Is this about your medallion status, ma'am? Top responder. Well, they have a banquet every year and they give you... You get four stars every time. Oh. You get access to all the responder lounges around the world. There's a responder upgrade available.

You get it first. So I imagine that it was like a ride share driver situation where every time someone has a heart attack, they're pestered by their phone to rate their EMT driver. Four stars, top responder. But the number I respond to is significantly less than the number I transport people out of Fort Valley. So I frequent, and usually it's a total of about three hours to take somebody to the hospital and get everything done. Right. So you respond, you show up, someone else is better qualified to deal with it, you go back on home. Right. Right.

Okay. So tell me the last time that your mom responded to a call. I don't know if I can remember the exact last time. Or one that sticks in your mind. One that sticks in my mind is that she had invited me and my family to visit them for the weekend. That she was going to teach my daughter and I how to make strawberry jam. Nice. It was a very lovely grandmothery gesture.

Right. And so we get all the strawberries and the sugar and the big pot on the stove. Right. And then the tones go off. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And she's just gone. And then I have this like giant pot.

Susan, drop strawberry jam. Get out of house immediately. I have this big pot of like sticky strawberry goo boiling on a stove. And I've never, I don't know how to make strawberry jam. You're thinking, me not go on make jam. Yeah. Then I had this big responsibility and no mother.

Yeah, well, certainly no one comes home to visit their parents to have to spend time with their children. But how long was she gone for before the Strawberry Jam project restarted again? I mean, she was gone I think at that time you did take them to the hospital.

And so you were gone for several hours. I don't know. The Strawberry Jam got made, but it could have been tastier. Could have been tastier. Susan, do you recall this incident, and do you remember what the emergency was that you were responding to? I remember the incident, but I don't remember,

and I really couldn't tell you because of HIPAA laws, what the incident was. Suffice it to say, it might have been something more of an inconvenience than having half-made jam lying around. I would assume so, because I really wanted to do it with them, and if

that person needed to go to the hospital or we could have flown them out, it takes pretty much everybody to get everything set up for flying somebody out. And it takes a long time. So what do you like about doing this, Susan? I like helping the people in the community.

I like knowing that I'm being supportive. And I do like the adrenaline rush. Do you think, Sarah, you say you have two children? Yes. And what's their ages and styles? I have a six-year-old daughter and an almost three-year-old son. So the three-year-old son is just a creature who just eats Legos and doesn't know what's happening. So that's...

No, I agree completely. Your six-year-old daughter is obviously cognizant of what's happening and that her grandmother is going away to save lives. Yes. Everyone's very proud of her. Everyone's very proud of your mother. My mother, yeah. Yes.

I know. Well, obviously, it is a sad situation that your daughter can't make jam with what does she call you grandma goggy goggy could this get more adorable i think this is the last episode of the podcast jesse i think this is it yeah we better close with a miniature donkey or we're busted don't you think that even though she said she can't make jam with her Gaghi she appreciates that Gaghi's got responsibilities and it's kind of a

superhero for sure and you know what when we go to visit them my mom takes us to the fire station and lets them climb up into the ambulance in the fire truck like right it's like super high-level grandma. But you're not asking your mother to stop being a top responder. No, not at all. Just a medium responder. Yeah, I think... Or a sometimes responder.

I think that she does take a lot of calls. I do think that she has even mentioned that people don't always respond when they know that she's there so and so i think obviously you've already accused the fort valley and this time i'll remember the name because you are accusing the other members of the fort valley volunteer fire department of being creeps and shirkers who go out of town or I should say out of valley. That is what you say. When they know your mom is hanging around because they're like, we can go away.

We can F off. Top responder will take care of it. And when they're even there, they get the beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And they're like, nevermind. Susan's got it. They're all a bunch of losers and wastoids. These are your words, madam.

You feel that she takes on more responsibility than she has to. I think so, yeah. Do you think that's true, Susan, or no? No. No. And you would never betray your colleagues, even though secretly you know Sarah's right. No. Let the record show that she is saying no, but I know that she's saying yes.

No. No. You know your colleagues that she is saying no, but I know that she's saying yes. No. No. You know your colleagues and you trust them and you have each other's... We have each other's backs. Backs. Yeah, exactly so. So it's Sarah who's lying. It's Sarah as a fabricator.

That hurts. Oh. I think that that was a sincere form of feeling. I think that was a sincere expression of feeling. Does it not? Does it hurt? Oh, it does hurt. Yeah, I will admit.

Yes, it does hurt to feel like, you know, she actually doesn't like to leave the valley because they depend on her. So she doesn't come and visit us as often as I would like. And when we go to visit them, sometimes we'll be alone there for almost the whole weekend. She can't, it's not every time that we go that she gets a call, obviously. Like it's one to two a week. Let the record show that Mrs. Lieutenant Officer

just gave her daughter some serious side eye. I missed that. It was when you said sometimes we come and visit and she's barely there for the weekend. Yeah, I think that's accurate because it's not just the time that she's away. It's also that it's hard physical work that's also mentally and emotionally taxing. And she needs to rest afterwards. Sure.

So she'll go and do it and then she'll come back and maybe take a nap or rest. Right. It's understandable, but she's still away. Your father, your husband is alive and in the picture? Yes, he is. Yes. So is he also volunteering and doing stuff? No. So what do the children call him? Guppy. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. It's Guppy. Did you say Guppy? I said Guppy. Guppy and Goggy. God, I wish we could just drop the mics and walk off stage.

Where is Guppy in this picture? When Goggy goes away, doesn't Guppy step in and help out with the jams and the things? It's a 22-acre horse farm. There's a lot of work to be done. When we go up, it's the weekend. He's been working all week. He's off doing farm chores a lot. Do you have brothers and sisters?

I do, yeah. Where are they in the world? They live in upstate New York. Do they visit and have similar complaints? They would not go on record as such. Oh, right. You won't betray your colleagues either. Do you have any sources in the deep state? No comment. So Sarah, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule? I would like it that when we come to visit that she tell her colleagues that she would be

unavailable to run calls and that she would turn off her pager and the radio for the weekend. And also, this is something we didn't talk about yet, but she also is very active in the firehouse. And sometimes we'll go up there and she'll be like, oh yeah, there's bingo tonight. So I got to leave at three to go run bingo. So that she would just tell me if it's going to be a bingo night before we get there.

So you might plan ahead and not come for a bingo night. Or just no. Do you plan to get a new grandma that weekend? Right. Have you ever considered hiring a substitute goggy to hang around? Oh no. Goggy. Is it possible for you to tell your colleagues I'm taking the weekend off? I mean, I'm not talking about possible for you personally, but would it be acceptable within the laws of the volunteer fire department? It's not something that people do. Ever. Unless you're drunk, no.

Well, a solution has just presented itself. I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sarah, how are you feeling about your chances in the case? Oh, I knew coming into this that I was going to be the unsympathetic character. Yeah. No. What are you, reality show producing or podcast?

Everyone in the family that I told we were going to do this, they're all like, you're going to lose. Susan, how are you feeling? I hope I am supported and get to keep doing what I feel is necessary to do. Hold your applause. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say in just a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So my dad is a grandparent to our children, a very devoted grandparent. He also does a lot for his community. He helps raise money for

Teacher development in the Brookline public schools, etc, etc, etc He's a great dad. He's a great dad great grandparent he is a Trained as a bookkeeper originally and has an actuarial view about existence, which is to say he lives with one foot in the grave. He is constantly extrapolating towards death. And at one point, I was visiting him a few years ago when our children were a little bit younger. And he said, I would like to set up a schedule where I see your children every three weeks, either here in Boston or Brookline

or New York, one visit or another." I'm like, that sounds fine. Sure. And he said, I've calculated. The reason I want to do this is that I have calculated that I have about four more years where they will want to spend time with me. And I said, hang on, Dad. I understand what you're saying. There is a period of transition when kids become preteens and teens where they individuate and they don't feel as excited about spending time with Guppy and Goggy.

You're not wrong to think ahead to that time, I suppose, but if you are calculating the amount of time you have left, then the time you spend with them will be overshadowed by that and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and they'll realize that you're a death-obsessed weirdo. If you just take it a little bit easy and not think about it that way and spend the time with them, you don't know how long they will enjoy spending time with you. And I thought that that was very insightful.

My part? Until I realized his calculations were absolutely correct. Almost to the day. I mean, he didn't show me the spreadsheet, but I know there is one. And while my children still love their guppy, they are now on their way in their own lives, and they are not as interested in making strawberry jam with him. You know, this is what happens when you have children.

I don't need to tell you, Susan. They are the entire investment of your life, and you are the entire investment of their lives for a very intense period of time. And then they grow up and they reveal themselves that they have always been whole human beings the entire time. They have been tricking you into thinking they were just a reflection of your own self that you could take pictures of and put on Instagram and get street cred for their cuteness. But that's all over now, because now they want to be away from you. And they go away, and that's a hard thing to deal with. And particularly when you go through

transitions like that, and then into later adulthood and retirement, these are big transitions, big life changes, and you have to find a way to make yourself feel happy and fulfilled and reconnect. Don't, don't stick it. Let the record show that Susan just stuck her tongue out at Sarah. Because you think you have it in the bag, don't you? No. You think you have it in the bag. No, not at all.

I don't think you do. No. You and your friends sit around the firehouse. Talking about how... No, anyway. You don't have it in the bag, goggy. I know. You're a top goggy, but you don't have it in the bag.

Still figuring it out in my head. That's why I'm talking so much. So, your mom went through this transition that you're going to go through right and the transition she made was to go to a fictional valley surround herself

with dangerous horses and throw herself into the service of her community both in terms of life savingsaving and bingo. And I know that you're proud of your mom. I am. You have your own family now. And I think that you will come to appreciate,

if not now, then later, that while I'm sure Gaghi loves you and her grandchildren very much, she loves her life. This is, it's, look, I know you're grateful for your mom. It's incredible to have a parent when you're an adult who is self-sufficient, engaged, healthy, saving lives, dodging horses. I don't know what's going on. She doesn't always dodge them.

Do they get you sometimes? Yes. A neighbor blew up something and they knocked me down. Who knocked you down? A neighbor blew up something really big and my horses knocked me down. Why are we not talking about this? John, we have other justice to this.

I know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just want a series of novels set in your world. Is that so much to ask? A trilogy, at least. You know, lots of people have adult parents who are not capable of taking care of themselves, who have big, who do not manage this transition well. Maybe they have financial issues, maybe they have health issues,

or maybe they're just like, you know, charting their course to the grave, like my dear father is doing. I love him so much. This should be a point of joy for you. And while I appreciate that it is hard that when you go to Fictional Valley to get a break from your children so that you can pretend to be the retired mom that your mom is, and she's not there to stick around and take care of it, that it's frustrating and also hurtful because you have traveled far and wide through various dimensional portals to get there. Several, yes. I share your suspicion, Sarah. Thank you. That your mom has taken on a mantle of responsibility,

a heavy mantle of responsibility, that her drunk colleagues do not share equally. You don't have to tell them we were angry. This may or may not be true. Just as you will not snitch on your siblings, so she will not snitch on her fellow FDs. But nonetheless, I do not think she will put it down lightly, and it's clear she will not put it down even for her own daughter.

I cannot compel her to put down that mantle of responsibility. I appreciate that it's frustrating. Instead of having her be the role model of the goggy who stays at home and makes jam, you have a wonderful role model of the goggy who starts making jam and then kicks it off the stove

because someone else is calling because her life is an adventure novel. That's true. Your siblings were right. You are wrong. This is the sound of a gavel. That's John Hodgman rules. That is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Thank you to Sarah and Susan. Thank you. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them

by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're Made In, Made In.

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Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you

while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners. Right now, get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please, everyone in this wonderful theater, put your hands together once again for Brian Farrow. applause piano plays

You only have to say so much The rest you can say by touch Don't struggle over words Don't struggle over words, don't fret over verbs. Me and you, I know what I've heard. Only speak your native tongue. I hear your intention sung. hear your intention sung

The sweet melody be found over me Brush my skin the meaning within Tangle fingers and no delay

What more is there to say? Firmness of hands, heads that demand Not one word can speak those commands so Mm-hmm. Ah-ooh. Mm-hmm. Ah-ooh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You can find me at kidbfaro on Instagram and brianfaro.com. Thank you all so much.

Y'all hear the guitar all right? Y'all hear the guitar all right? Land of the brave, home of the free Don't want to be mistreated by no bourgeoisie Cause it's a bourgeois town Oh, this bourgeois town I got the bourgeois blues And I'm gonna spread that news all around Me and my wife, we was upstairs.

Those white folks downstairs said, they don't want them ****** around here. Because it's a bourgeois town. Oh, this bourgeois town. I got this bourgeois blues. I'm gonna spread that news all around. Yeah. Them folks in Washington, they know how.

Call the colored man names just to see him bow. Because it's a bourgeois town. Oh, this bourgeois town. I got the bourgeois blues. I'm gonna spread that news all around Tell all the colored folks, listen to me All the colored folks, raise your hand real quick Tell all the colored folks to listen to me You don't wanna make your home in Washington, D.C.

Cause it's a bourgeois town Oh, this bourgeois town I got the bourgeois blues Gonna spread that news all around Can you all clap with me? Uh, uh, hold on, I got you There you go, that's where it is. This is the legacy of your town.

It didn't grow, it just changed the mold. Don't play ignorant, y'all should know. Nothing's gonna change until the veto rolls. So, get your lungs ready. Scream and shout as I go ahead and take this song on out. Cause it's a bourgeois town. Oh, this bourgeois town. I got the bourgeois blues gonna spread that news all around.

Y'all can sing it too. Cause it's a bourgeois town. Oh, this bourgeois town. I got the bourgeois blues gonna spread that news all around. Oh, I got the bourgeois blues gonna spread that news all around. Thank you, y'all. Brian Farrow! Hello, teachers and faculty.

This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes,

listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, in the halls. S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O We are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Should we introduce our special guest on tonight's program? Yeah, that's right. We have a special guest expert witness. Surprise witness, folks. Yeah.

Let's please introduce this person, won't you? You know her not only as one of the greatest friends of Judge John Hodgman, the coiner of our classic phrase. By the way, I just claimed it for us, I guess, by saying our classic. That's good. The classic phrase, little weirdsies, off-referenced on this program. She's one of the hosts of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. Please welcome Linda Holmes.

Linda Holmes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Linda, what a delight to see you. It's a delight to see you, too.

It's a real thrill to have a successful podcaster here tonight, folks. This is a very imposing show to be part of if you're a person who has no act. I feel like the Baroness Schrader. I feel the same way. I'm like, I would have brought my harmonica. Do you play harmonica? No, but it's the Baroness Schrader. Some of them know.

Oh, I'm sorry. Right? I misheard something. It's the sound of music. The Baroness. Oh, yes, right. When all the children are singing and she has this wonderful line. She's like one of the best characters in all of music. The Baroness. Oh, yes, right. When all the children are singing, and she has this wonderful line. She's like one of the best characters in all of the films. She is.

And she says, oh, I wish I'd known something about the singing, and I would have brought my harmonica. Right. And it's this wonderfully dry. Yes. She deserves so much better. Just like ice coming out of her mouth.

Absolutely, in the best way. When you're young, you think that she's a villain. No. And I'm not the first person to observe this, but when you're young, you think that she's a villain. No. I'm not the first person to observe this, but when you're young, you think she's a villain, and then you're kind of like, meh. Yeah, no.

When you've seen enough Muppets, it's like, mm. I don't belong here, and she lets him go, basically. She does, and she tells him, go get your nun. When I was a kid, my dad used to play the harmonica very badly. He would put on a tape, a cassette tape, and then just play along with it with his set of harmonicas. He was terrible. And I thought it was the worst thing ever when I was 10 years old. I would just be like, look at my dad. Oh, God. Oh, playing the harmonica. And I feel like growing up is understanding that actually it was the greatest thing ever.

Thing about him, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, Linda, obviously you observe and comment on popular culture, but you recently became a best-selling novelist, author of Evie Drake. Evie Drake starts over. Evie Drake starts over. True. And how does it feel to be on the other side?

Well, it feels, right now it feels tense because I have to write another one. I have a contract for another one. When's the due date? The first draft due date is April 1st. Oh, you'll never make it. You know, as a former publishing professional, I can tell you, those deadlines mean nothing. Yeah, but here's the thing. The deadline of every book contract should be

April 1st, because it is meaningless. But, here's what you don't know. Okay. The original one was September. Oh. You've already blown by a deadline. Yeah, make them wait. Make them wait, Linda Holmes. You two are Maine buddies, aren't you?

You two are both Maine enthusiasts. Evie Drake Starts Over is set in the great state of Maine. It's set in Maine. It's set in Maine. It's set in mid-coast Maine. If you've ever been to the kind of like Rockland, Camden... I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about. ...wonderful part of mid-coast Maine,

it is set in that area where I vacationed frequently when I was a kid. But you don't come back as an adult? Yeah, I do. I do when I can. We came back a couple times to the same cabins that we used to rent when I was in high school or middle school. My family came back when we were all, when my sister and I were adults and she had little kids. But then I also went back a couple times while I was working on the book. I actually wrote most of the second draft in the public.

I wrote a bunch of the second draft in the public library in Camden, which is very beautiful if you've ever been there. And you didn't call me. I was there, probably. No, but I will tell you, one of my trips to Maine, I came back and I saw the Banana Man. Oh, really? Yeah. Jonathan Nieder, the Fresh Banana Man?

I saw the Fresh Banana Man. I stopped at the rest stop, and I came in, and I said, I know you from the internet. Oh, really? Yeah. Jonathan Nieder, the fresh banana man? I saw the fresh banana man. I stopped at the rest stop and I came in and I said, I know you from the internet. Oh, really? Yeah. And I was not the first person to have done this with him. And he was basically like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nobody loves being the fresh banana man like the fresh banana man. God bless him. That's kind of how it went. Yeah. This is some old school Judge John Hodgman stuff. Listen to the archives. In any case, time is short and there is still injustice. Let's hear some more cases, but we have to

be fast because we're moving along here. Time moves in one direction. Jesse Thorne, what do you say to putting ten minutes on the clock so we can hear three cases in swift succession, what we call swift justice, shall we? Please welcome to the stage Liz and Emanuel Liz

And Emanuel now full disclosure I must reveal that I saw Liz and Emanuel at Tattooed mom bar in Philadelphia last night. You're visiting from Philadelphia where you live is that that correct? Yes. Right. And who comes to this court to seek justice from me, John Hodgman? I am taking Emanuel to court. You are? And what is your complaint against Emanuel? I am lactose intolerant. And thank you. Such a classic J.J. Ho who. And often when we go to get coffee, I will first order like a soy mocha, for example, and then Emmanuel will come up and order after me, and they will order like a mocha with regular or normal milk. Emmanuel will order regular milk.

Yes, normal. Emmanuel will order regular milk or normal milk to differentiate their milk from your soy milk. Yes, so you feel othered. Yes. Yes. Is this a matter, Emmanuel, of cow milk hegemony? I mostly just panic. I mostly just panic.

I think they found the key to the heart of the Judge John Hodgman listener. Well, I mean, Emmanuel, I happen to know that you use they-them pronouns. Yes. Yes. So obviously you appreciate the The irony in normalizing one certain kind of milk it's Fair yeah against all other milks you are that you have chosen to accept that there is it not a normal Right in human personhood and interaction and so forth, right? So what leg do you have to stand on? I mean, a lot of it just comes from severe anxiety

around ordering and talking to anyone. Right. And so normally she'll order first, and it might not even be something I want, but I'm so panicked that I will just be like, I want the same thing, but... You go back to ancient social training and conditioning, and you're like, normal milk! Yes.

What would you... Not that weird stuff, I'm not her! What would you prefer that they say, dairy milk? I think that saying something like, I would like whole milk or 2% milk would address their concern of not wanting to have a longer conversation quicker even than saying normal milk. Because they have been asked sometimes to clarify. Sure. I was also a barista for a while. And so I know, too, like I'm not going to pretend that there isn't a standard.

And so I know too, like I'm not going to pretend that there isn't a standard. So if somebody would say I want a medium latte, they will default to dairy milk. So they don't have to add normal. Oh, I see. So just don't, so just say milk. Yes. Would be part of your argument. Yeah, you know, regular milk. Oh, I just did.

The anxiety defense is a strong defense in the court of Judge John Hodgkin. Panic attack while ordering coffee is something I can feel. Like, that's for sure. Can I argue again? Yes, please. So... Liz felt me wrapping it up.

She's like, this is not over. Can I argue more? I grew up lactose intolerant, obviously. And my mother, for my entire childhood, called my milk special milk. Oh. So I have... So this is bringing up some trauma for you. Yes.

Right. Yes. What's your favorite kind of non-dairy milk? Soy. Soy. You don't care for the oat? That's big in the podcast right now. All currant, yeah. Yes. What's your favorite kind of non-dairy milk? Soy. Soy. You don't care for the oat? That's big in the podcast right now. All currant, yeah.

Yeah. I'm okay with oat. Soy is my preference. And then there's almond milk. What are all the milks, Linda Holmes? My favorite is cashew, personally. Cashew milk? Yeah.

They make that out of a cashew? Yeah. We get cashew almond milk and Emmanuel drinks drinks it right here is my here is my order thank you first of all uh for coming to the court of judge john hodgman uh emmanuel you have to say milk or dairy milk stop othering liz's soy milk And I appreciate that it makes you anxious, but maybe you can just print out a little card. It says, I suffer from ordering anxiety. Please just put regular milk in my coffee.

This is the sound of a gavel. Emmanuel and Liz. Please welcome Julia and John. Julia and John, Julia and John have entered the courtroom with a bottle, John has something

on a plate and Julia has a bottle of maple syrup. For the at-home listener, I just want to clarify, John is wearing a Bonnaroo T-shirt, and the rest of the clothes a guy wearing a Bonnaroo T-shirt would wear. I was really hoping you would say that.

Something. Say something. I presume that you are here to seek justice for John's outfit. Is that correct? And that this weird stuff on a plate and this maple syrup is just something you carry around every day. I've given up on that one. I see. Well, you are Julia, and you seek justice.

What is the nature of your complaint? John scrambles our pancakes. John scrambles our pancakes. John scrambles... Yep. ...your pancakes. And may I presume that what you have brought on stage is a scrambled pancake? Absolutely, yep.

Then I absolutely presume that. John, how do you... Set aside... Set aside the fact that pancakes needed no improvement. That it is a time-tested delicious, though not for me as a

sweet. I don't care for sweets. I don't have a sweet tooth. I have an alcohol molar. A time-tested thing primarily tested through time and improved through time I have an alcohol molar. A time-tested thing, primarily tested through time and improved through time by the work and labor traditionally of frontier women, but that you, a white man

in the 21st century, have figured out a new way of making pancakes. Setting aside... Setting aside all of that context, how do you scramble a pancake? First, I just want to address the history of this. So you're telling me actually. I'm prepared. Look, if you've done some serious pancake history, because I don't know what I'm prepared. Look,

if you've done some serious pancake history, because I don't know what I'm talking about, I will definitely listen sympathetically. You've got to understand the system, John. Long ago, Francis Bonnaroo was at Burning Man. So actually in the early 1900s, scrambled pancakes were invented in Germany, I believe.

Oh, and were they called scrambled pancakes? Actually, wait, this is, wait. I got it on the cocktail napkin. Okay. I can see you've done a Bonnaroo level of preparation. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Wikipedia. Wikipedia, cocktail napkin. Wikipedia, a cocktail napkin.

Wikipedia and a cocktail napkin, that's all you need. Cocktail napkin is otherwise known as a Bonnaroo book. Does anyone have a spent piece of hash I can write with? Cigarette, yeah. It's called Kaiser Schmarn. I can't say that.

Here, let me see it. Oh, very nice handwriting.-chmarn. I can't say that. Here, let me see it. Yeah, there you go. Oh, very nice handwriting. Kaiser-chmarn. Or, a.k.a. Oh, God. Emperor's mess. Emperor's mess.

Also what America is known as. 2019. Linda Holmes, I am passing the evidence to you for your scrutiny, and perhaps you may want to ask a question or two of the witnesses. Did you begin scrambling your pancake because you want to salute the history of the Kaiser-Schmachan Emperor's mess, or because you can't make a pancake?

I was impatient, and it cooks faster. Okay. Are you aware that the idea of a pancake properly made is that it has like a slightly bit of a crispy outside and then it's like soft in the middle. I like the chewiness all around. Hey, I give up. Hey. I give up.

I want to follow up Linda's question. Did you learn of the history of the Kaiser Schmertner? And like, I want to give that a try. That sounds interesting. Or did you just f just up a pancake? And then be like, I bet there's a German word for this. And like everything you think there's a German word for, you were right. Yeah, I was pretty hungover and just.

Really, I see. Interesting, new layers emerge. I think as hangover food, it's clearly acceptable, I would say. My question is, you wanted to make a pancake fast, which is to say, you don't know when to flip a pancake. Right? Because it's hard. It's hard to know.

Julia, do you make pancakes? Yes. And do you make good pancakes? Yes. What size do you like? Medium. Sometimes I throw a couple mini or large. Depends on how I'm feeling.

I thought you were trying to say mini and large were synonyms. Sometimes I try to throw a couple mini, also known as large. I also come from a long line of pancake makers. My father has made a pancake for breakfast every morning since probably I was born or before. Oh my goodness. So by long line, you mean you and your father? Yes. It does sound like her father counts as several.

Yeah, that's fair. So... He eats the pancakes of many men. Your father makes a pancake every morning. I bet he's good at it. He is. What is his technique, and what did he teach you? I learned more by watching, because it's a very, you know, it's his thing, and it's the size of the pan, so I usually get a slice.

What are you talking about now, Julia? It's huge. He makes a huge cake? Huge pancake? A huge pancake. It's really good, makes a huge cake? Huge pancake? A huge pancake. It's really good, but it's not quite what we're making. Why do you associate only with men who don't understand what

pancakes are? I thought your father was going to be a role model instead of some other weird creep. Yeah, this whole thing is something you need to address with your therapist, not us. When you make pancakes, they're just regular pancakes, right?

Not giant pancakes, not scrambled up pancakes, round pancakes in a cast iron pan or maybe a non-stick pan? Cast iron, and I usually do blueberry or chocolate chip. Right. And I do them very traditionally. I'm a very traditional pancake maker. Except the chocolate chips.

I said except the chocolate chips. Those are not traditional, really. I think that they're Linda Steen. Wow, okay. Apparently a voice for real pancakes. And the crowd turns on me over chocolate chip pancakes. Could you elaborate on that, on the not traditional part? I said they're not traditional.

Well, you know, I think that the Judge John Hodgman crowd is always going to boo the exclusion of chocolate chips it's the only thing they love about the podcast they pick out the chocolate chips and they leave the rest of the podcast on the plate all right i'm going to try these scramble pancakes all right now do you want to put maple syrup on let me do a taste so they do have almonds and coconut oil. It's like almond... What are you doing? I mean, I just got my head around scrambled pancakes. But you're one of these guys who's like,

let's add on, add on. What are you, Guy Fieri? You know what this needs now? Some jalapenos. It's like Emeril, like bam. Yeah. Thank you for that ancientapenos! It's like Emeril. Like, bam! Yeah. Thank you for that ancient shout-out to my friend Emeril.

So you added in... I appreciate your warning me from an allergy point of view. Yeah. Coconut oil is no problem. Actually, a very good cooking oil for stuff like this, in my opinion, when you're trying to cook eggs or pancakes

or something that'll release easily. But the almonds are chunked up in here? No, so it's like almond meal flour. It's like... Jesus. Are you gluten-free? Is that what's happening? No, I'm just weird. No, there is no normal.

Understand, Emmanuel? All right, so this is not wheat flour. No. Almond flour. Yeah. Coconut oil. Any other allergens I should know about? No.

He learned to do this at a Dr. Dog concert. All right, add the maple syrup. Thank you. Let the record reflect that they have a 75-gallon bottle of maple syrup. It looks like nice maple syrup. Is there something you want to talk about? Is this your dad's big maple syrup company or something? No, I wish.

Okay, what brand is it? I think it's Trader Joe's. Is there maple in the maple syrup? Because I'm deathly allergic. This basically tastes, first of all, it's got a very nutty undertaste. And it's a little, for that reason, it's a little extra savory and I like it.

It tastes like you are a three-year-old who took your pancake. It tastes like you're a three-year-old who, like, instead of eating his pancake, grabbed it in his little hands and went mush, mush, mush, mush, mush, and left it behind. And I'm the older brother going like, I'll eat it. But altogether, it's not an unpleasant taste. My question is, what kind

of mess does it leave behind in the pan? Exactly. A big mess in the pan. And then I go to make my pancakes right, and I don't have a pan. Right, because you don't clean the pan after you do your emperor's mess in it? We have two pans. I rule his and her pans, one for the emperor's mess, one for Julia. Never touch her pan.

Keep your pan and your weird plans to yourself, sir. Julia and John. Please welcome Jason and Allison. and Allison. Jason and Allison, who comes to this court to seek justice before me? I'm coming to seek justice. Thank you.

And you are Allison, I presume? I am. And what is the nature of your dispute? I feel strongly sometimes when there has been some form of injustice towards myself or my husband that I want to speak up and say something to correct it.

And that makes my husband very anxious. Well, that all sounds very reasonable and rehearsed. What is actually going on here, Jason? So sometimes there's like an awkward social situation that kind of calls for a comment, and she'll say, I'm going to say something, and I really hope that she doesn't go say something. Why are you worried that she won't go say something?

It's like a spidey sense. It just feels really wrong. Just like that she's talking, or...? No. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Walked her into, no, I do have a question though.

I do have a question. I need an example. Like, are we, you don't want her to say something about politics or you don't want her to say something about somebody punched you

in the face or? When we moved into our house, our next door neighbor used to tie their dog to our front tree. To your front tree. To our front tree. And Allison is upset. Yes.

I was. We, at the time, had two dogs ourselves. Yes. And the tree was clearly in the center of our front yard, and this dog could... The leash would reach to our front porch and so this little dog would be barking on our front porch it sometimes would bark at our neighbors who were walking on the sidewalk right and since it was tied to our tree seemed like it

was your dog yes they thought that a whole dog was yours correct Correct. It's really weird that your neighbor tied their dog to your tree. Yes, I agree. What was going on there in your opinion? I think they had done it for years before. We had just moved in. Oh, I see. Yeah, and so we...

Rather than trying to blend into the neighborhood gently and go along with the traditions and customs, younap the dog. Mr. Bobo, I had nothing against him. Personally, he was a pleasant enough dog. Is this the dog or your neighbor? Mr. Bobo's the dog? Mr. Bobo is the dog.

Mr. Bobo's the dog. Goggy is the neighbor. Is Mr. Bobo no more? Mr. Bobo and his family have since moved. Oh. Yes. Not our fault. Not in any provable way. No. In fact, we became

friends. So ultimately I confronted Mr. Bobo's owner. Yes. Senior Bobo. But this was awkward for you? It just felt so weird, yeah. Tell me more about how it made you feel. We would see them a lot, and they were very friendly.

Yeah, that does feel weird. We had two big dogs at the time, so I would walk them a lot, and so it just felt like I wanted to crawl inside myself. It was kind of awkward. After she confronted you? Correct, yes. Was there any sense that there was a bad feeling about this? No.

Do you feel that your sensitivity to this issue is the fact that you're gentrifying a neighborhood where they don't speak English? I do want to share this, that the neighbors who ultimately did move away, before they moved away, they came to our son's first birthday party. We went to their granddaughter's first birthday party. They're very good people. No, I mean, having hard conversations is part of being a neighbor. They're not all easy. And being willing to put yourself out there and engage in conversation,

all easy and being willing to put yourself out there and engage in conversation, particularly if it's a cross-cultural conversation, is, you know, whether it's responsible or brave or just basically human and decent, it's part of being a neighbor. And I'm glad that that seemed to have deepened your relationship with your neighbors until they inevitably got priced out of your neighborhood and had to leave. That wasn't your fault. Capitalism is fundamentally morally corrupt. In any case, I applaud your

presuming that you are not an sociopath who has tricked me. I applaud your, presuming that you are not an sociopath who has tricked me. I applaud your assertiveness and I encourage you, Jason, to be grateful that you have someone to hide behind. Thank you. Jason and Allison. Live justice from the Lincoln Theater in Washington, D.C. Our thanks to all of the litigants who shared their disputes with us. This episode recorded by Jeff Bird, produced by Hannah Smith, edited by Jesus Ambrosio.

Our producer is the great Jennifer Marmer. Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO. And check out the MaxFun subreddit, MaximumFund.reddit.com to discuss this episode. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff. And hey, you made it this far into the credits.

You owe it to yourself to get more John Hodgman content by subscribing to iPodius. Just this is the end of this show. So you might as well listen to that next. Yeah, if you're one of these real dead enders who goes all the this is the end of this show, so you might as well listen to that next. Yeah, if you're one of these real dead-enders who goes all the way to the end of the credits, you're definitely going to enjoy iPodius for sure. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. It's you I like It's not the things you wear

It's not the way you do your hair But it's you I like The way you are inside Way down deep inside you It's not the things that hide you It's not your toys They're just beside you It's a hell of a lyric, Mr. Rodgers.

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