Judge John Hodgman - Marbits and a Mayo Knife

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

It's time to clear the docket! Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn discuss the proper way to eat Lucky Charms, communal baked goods, adding berries to pancakes, ordering the same entrée as your dining partner, and proper knife placement. Plus much more!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket. And with me is the King of New York himself, Judge John Hodgman. New York. The exiled king himself, Jesse Thorne. You came to New York. We're recording this right after we recorded our incredible live show at Lincoln Center at Damarash Park in New York City. First time I'd seen either you or Jennifer Marmer in two and a half years in a beautiful setting full of people, which was really astonishing to see all those happy people. Well, I hope they were happy. I was very happy to see them in the audience. And Jesse, you, I had to, I had to sneak out of town immediately to go hide in Maine with my family,

but you hung around New York city. And I ask you this question. Yeah. Did you, or did you not take Manhattan? Absolutely. Full Muppet style. Good. I went to two Broadway shows.

Yes. I hung out with the poster guy from the Antiques Roadshow. He has a name. Nico Lowry. Nico Lowry. Nicholas Nico Lowry from Antiques Roadshow. Wonderful man. Known for his boldly patterned suits on the Antiques Roadshow and now known to me as a

lovely guy. Yeah, I got to meet him briefly after the show. I'm sorry I could not hang out. Where did you go? To the Gramercy Arts Club or to the Players Club? Well, we were meant to go to the Players Club. Nico ended up having a little bit of a cold, so I had to cancel that date. Okay. But I

filled in for it by buying a Rush ticket to the Music Man. I was like, you saw Rush? And then I realized. Then I realized what you were talking about. I didn't know they were playing. I went to see Air Supply. It was great. Oh, I don't want to get the letters

that we're going to get of you comparing Air Supply to Rush. R.I.P. Neil Peart. You went to see The Music Man. You got to know the territory then. I, of course, know the territory with Ree, The Music Man. I thought it was a wonderful production. The dancing in particular, the dancing and choreography were really superb. The dancing in particular, the dancing and choreography were really superb.

Hugh Jackman was strongest at the comic, at the lighter comic parts. Maybe lacked the intensity and sort of dark side of Robert Preston's classic portrayal. Mm-hmm. And I went to see Company with the great Patti LuPone, and that was extraordinary. That was so fantastic. Broadway. Broadway, the great white way, as it's called. Let me tell you two stories about Broadway, very quick. Sure. My limited experience with Broadway. Well, The Music Man specifically. I've never seen it on stage. I was well into my late 30s, early 40s before I even saw the movie. I was coming to Los Angeles.

Paul F. Tompkins could not believe I had never seen the movie. And he was going to screen it at a friend's house, Mark McConville's house, I believe. Former editor of this program. And a comedic genius. And along with comedic house, I believe. Former editor of this program. And a comedic genius. And along with comedic genius, Matt Gourley was there as well. Another former editor of this program. And we all sat together and we watched The Music Man. And at the end of it, I said, it was pretty good.

And I don't think my friendship with Paul has ever been the same. I could hear him closing the window shade on me. because he loves it so much. And you do too. I think Paul would make a fantastic Harold Hill. I think he- I think it's probably crossed his mind. Yeah. That that is absolutely true. sort of light, silly charm moments. But I think Paul actually would do a really fantastic job with the darkness of a guy who is in town to cheat people and a narrative that ultimately, I had a hard time watching it outside of the context of contemporary America and contemporary American politics, but a narrative where this guy is revealed to be a charlatan

and the town decides they would rather live in the world that he's created than run him out of town. Yeah. Hmm. Content warning. I hadn't thought about it that way. Well, I think it is also a very turn of the 20th century story in that those kinds of liminalities were paramount in that time in American culture. Country and city and faith and science and all these things were getting muddied up together at that time. I think that's what the Music Man ultimately is about. But just, you know, who doesn't like Marion the Librarian also? I got to rewatch the Music Man and get my friend Paul back. But also, when I was in college, I went to college with a wonderful person named

Mariah Grandy. I believe she lives in Chicago. She's still a top-notch singer and interpreter of the American Songbook. And her, her brother, I believed worked in the sound booth or someone she knew worked in the sound booth. Her brother's a comedy writer, so this may not be right, but she told me the story that someone who worked in the sound booth of cats at the Winter Garden Theater, which was running and running and running at that time. And she told the story about how in cats, the cats who are actually humans dressed up as cats, their cat costumes are so tight that they couldn't body mic them. This was the story I was told. So they had these highly sensitive mics at the foot of the stage

so that before every performance, the people in the sound booth could hear every conversation of everyone in the front row. And the conversation was relayed to me by mariah as being her favorite was that uh between two um mature women one had never seen cats before and the other had and the one who had seen cats said to the other one you've never seen cats before oh you're gonna love it it's about these cats and they sing beautiful and they dance even better and at the end of the show one of the cats sings a beautiful song and then they blow her out of the theater. Cats. Is there more to it than that?

I don't know. That was a spoiler warning. I should have given a spoiler warning because at the end of the show, they put her on a tire and they blow her out of the theater. I don't know if Mariah Grande listens to this show, but Mariah, it's nice to talk to you. I always remember that story.

I hope you're doing well. And I hope I'm right in remembering that you're in Chicago. Here's a case from- Oh, a case? What's that? Yeah. From Octavia in Missouri. By the way, sometimes people write in to correct my pronunciation of the name of the state Missouri. Right. My father was born and raised in Missouri and he called it Missouri so I'm going to call it Missouri because that's what he called it and he's dead now he doesn't want

his ghost to be mad at me what you got to do you got to pronounce things the way your dead dad pronounced them or else you get a vengeful ghost situation anyway I have some washing to do dear j squad I have to put some socks away in the dresser drawer. Dear J-Squad, I believe that Lucky Charms type cereal should be eaten grains first, then marshmallows. Everyone knows this is true, but my friend Melissa insists on eating it all together and thereby setting off cataclysmic chain reactions in the universe. I seek an order that she either stop eating it all together or damages for any harm caused by her unethical cereal habit. Now, first of all, there is no Lucky Charms type cereal, except for Lucky Charms, because it seems to me that this is what this case hinges on.

except for Lucky Charms, because it seems to me that this is what this case hinges on. Whether or not Lucky Charms are not merely magically delicious, but also magical, such that if you eat them in the wrong order, it will affect the universe. I don't believe this to be true. That said, let's just be precise. It's called Lucky Charms. They're not called grains. They're shaped, pulverized oat, according to this Wikipedia article.

SPL. And of course, they're not called marshmallows. Technically, within the cereal biz, they're known as Marbits, a term invented for Lucky Charms. Marshmallow bits. The first time I gather in history that marshmallows had ever been this size, which is tiny bit size. Little bit sized marshmallows. Jesse Thorne, did you ever eat Lucky Charms? I never ate Lucky Charms. That was a General Mills cereal. I was a Kellogg's person.

Sweet breakfast cereals weren't prevalent in my home. No. I don't know that I even had a bite of Lucky Charms. Jennifer Marmer, what about you? You ever eat a Lucky Charm? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've eaten a lot of Lucky Charms in my life. I mean, it wasn't like my main cereal, but I've definitely eaten them.

Okay. And how would you eat them? I mean, I'm not a cereal and milk person so like that wasn't a thing that i did whoa hold hold on what what what are you even talking about i just eat dry cereal as a snack sometimes but okay i mean great did i know this how long have known? This is a major thing to not know. Really? Yeah. That's not a big deal.

I don't think, I think it's pretty common to eat cereal with milk in it. I think that's pretty common. Of course it is. Of course it is. I understand. That's part of a complete nutritious breakfast that they're trying to sell you. This is one of my weirdsies. I don't really enjoy milk. I don't enjoy the texture of...

Soggy, extruded oat paste? Yeah. Right. Okay. So if you were going to snack on some Lucky Charms, your hand is the spoon, as it were. Never mind the milk. You grab them indiscriminately or do you eat the extruded oat paste first? Yeah, pretty indiscriminately.

I'm also one of those people who likes the marbots more than the marshmallows. I think that's the point of this whole case, right? Isn't that Octavia's point? Could be. I mean, Octavia is saying she saves the marbots to avoid damages and harm and chain reactions in the universe. Wait, are the marbots the grains, oats, things? I misunderstood, maybe. No, no, no.

Octavia says you should eat the grains first, the oats, the paste, the non-marbots. Save the marbots for last. Okay, I misunderstood. She's saying it's because she's afraid that the marbots have magical powers. Right. You know what she should do?

What? Well, first of all, I think her whole method is too much work. But second, she lives in Florissant, Missouri. Sorry, Jesse's dad. And it's not far from Arcola, Illinois, Amish country. Uh-huh. And I've been there. Illinois, Amish country. And I've been there. And where Rockholm Gardens used to be, I believe,

there is a store that they sell, you know, Amish goods and normal foods. And I mean, Amish foods are normal, sorry. But they sell all kinds of things, including bags of what appear to be just the Lucky Charms marshmallows by themselves. It's a little something called doing it right. Are you telling me that the people at the Amish market are picking out the marbits and putting them in bags

and feeding the oat paste presumably to their pigs and such? Maybe to their horses on their buggies. Right. Those are probably too sweet for the horses. But I don't know where they're sourcing these marbits from, but it exists. And you can verify that we are talking about hearts, stars, horseshoes, clovers, blue moons, rainbows, red balloons, unicorns.

Yeah. The current lineup of Marbits and Lucky Charms. Look, I haven't been to this store in quite a few years, but the first time I was there, I was blown away by this bag of Lucky Charms marshmallows. Octavia, get your vehicle, if you have one, and point it at arcola ill illinois is how my dad used to say illinois it's like two and a half hours uh nice trip nice trip i'll tell you something do you have a feeling jesse thorne on what is correct here is there a correct way to eat lucky charms yes or no i've never heard of this before i don't want to tell people how to live their lives. That's not why I started this podcast.

I just want to tell them that they're wrong a lot of the time, or they're right. However, eating a spoonful of Lucky Charms style Marbits feels like too much to me. style marbots feels like too much to me and it does feel a bit like it violates the lucky spirit of lucky charm cereal specifically which is you're eating a bunch of oats but then you get lucky you got a charm oh the charm is the marbot i never thought of that yeah i gotta go with that octavia you're violating the luck of the charms. I suspect, Octavia, that some degree you feel like eating the extruded oat pellets is like the vegetables of the cereal and you have to get through them in order to earn the dessert. But let me tell you, those extruded oat pellets, they're also in shapes. I don't know what they

are. Weird Celtic runes. I don't know what they are. Weird Celtic runes. I don't know what those shapes mean. But they're also covered in sugar. So it's all dessert. Yeah, they're good. Mix it up. Those oat pellets are really good. I like them.

Yeah, they're really good for you. I didn't say that. No. Yeah, that's a stretch. They're tasty. They're not very good for you if they're coated in sugar, I suppose. Did you know that the marbits have powers? What kind of powers are we talking about here?

Magical powers that Lucky the Leprechaun has because of these marshmallows. That's why he so jealously guards his pot of Lucky Charms. According to the Lucky Charms official website, the heart charm gives life to objects the star charm gives power of flight horseshoe charm is power of speed clover charm power of luck blue moon power of invisibility blue moon charm trump star charm every time listen to this american life it proves it invisibility is better than flight rainbow charm is the power to teleport red balloon charm is the power to float i always felt that red balloon was really horseshoed in there yeah it was a later edition i mean i remember when they added the uh red balloon yeah so stretch that's a stretch you

already got the star charm power flight and then the unicorn, which is a relatively recent new Marbet, brings color to the world. There you go. If you want to just see those Marbets, go up there to our Cole Illinois. Otherwise, just take a big old bite and, you know, go easy on that stuff. Here's something from Shay in Boston. My roommate Charlie and I bring a suit against our third roommate, Logan. We enjoy baking. When one person makes brownies or cookies, we split them equally. Charlie and I eat our portions within a day or two when they're fresh. Logan leaves their treats on the side table. Every day

when we ask if they're going to eat them, Logan will say, yes, I'm going to eat it later. But this is a lie. Eventually, after many days, Logan decides the treat's no longer good and throws it out. Notable conflicts include the cinnamon twist incident and the two-week ossified cupcake. Please order Logan to eat their treat within three days or else it becomes communal property for Charlie and I to eat. If it sweetens the deal, we have a cute cat and a menagerie of stuffed animals with their own names and personalities. Uh, yeah, I would say that that sweetens the deal because this case is pretty, pretty open and shut. If you abandon a treat, a cookie or a brownie or whatever on a side table for more than three days,

or maybe a little pile of Marbits for later that you've saved, guess what? You're already sharing that with ants. Never mind your roommates. Unless you put it under one of those little cheese domes. Do you have a cheese dome, Jesse? I would love to, but you know how it is living in the city. I have a cake dome. Of course you've got to have a cake dome because you don't want...

Is it glass? Yes. Yes. Yeah. You want to see that cake, but you don't want flies and ants to get on it. Yep. I've got to get a dome for like my cheese plate that's so that's on my list of to-dos but meanwhile i don't think that logan is putting a

dome over these abandoned treats and so i obviously find in charlie and shay's favor and mostly i just wanted to use this case to ask shay the question what are the names of these stuffed animals i've sent you an email with photos of most of the stuffed animals and i have obtained from shay a list of all of their names okay the the cat the the actual living cat which is a black cat is named artemis but the stuffed animals are steggy the stegosaurus zelius the brontosaurus cloverver the Guinea Pig, Iggy, whose full name is Igor Destroyer of Worlds the Hippo, Panonica the Pangolin, Jameel the Camel,

Riley the Monkey, Oliver the Hedgehog. This one really gets me. Bosk, the stuffed pear. Bosk pear. Plus, Shay says, a stuffed radish whose name i can't remember and for a while they were keeping a chocolate covered gummy bear named hans hoffman as a pet for oliver which you will remember is the stuffed hedgehog but they lost hans hoffman these animals go to animal school during the day and we will send you a class photo uh for now, here is Iggy in his baby socks and a group

photo of some of the gang. And Shay says, I've forgotten the little bear's name. And all the sweaters that these animals are wearing were all knit by their roommate, Charlie. We will post the photos, including this photo of Iggy, destroyer of worlds, the hippopotamus in his baby socks, which is a beautifully disturbing photo of a stuffed hippopotamus in a hand-knit sweater and baby socks covered in a unfinished jigsaw puzzle explanation not provided but whatever's going on up there in boston between shay and logan and charlie i like it i like it i want to hear all about animal school i want to see these photos we'll post the photos as they come in obviously obviously, on our Instagram page at Judge John Hodgman and on the show page at MaximumFun.org.

Have anything you want to say about these photos? Do you see them? Doesn't matter. I mean, there is quite the menagerie here. It's quite the menagerie. The real question here, though, 100% is how did this one animal get stuck inside this jigsaw puzzle disaster? animal gets stuck inside this jigsaw puzzle disaster i mean it looks like the aftermath of it's some kind of jigsaw puzzle tornado yeah where whatever kind of animal this is it's face down and wearing a little sweater and socks it feels to me as though uh they didn't teach in animal school the lesson of don't try to pull down a jigsaw puzzle off the table or you're going to get smashed by that jigsaw puzzle and then these friends these humans who live there

just walked by and said oh that's funny igor has been smashed by jigsaws i'll take a picture let's say that would be a fun thing to send without any context whatsoever oh as we speak i have just gotten more photos, including the class photo. We will be posting this, obviously. And there I see that stuffed radish, but I still have not seen Bosk the stuffed pear. I need to see Bosk the stuffed pear. Get me that photo, Shay. Keep them coming. And meanwhile, Logan, you're out of luck.

You got to eat those treats in three days or else everyone gets to eat them plus the cockroaches. Let's take a quick break. to eat those treats in three days or else everyone gets to eat them plus the cockroaches. Let's take a quick break. We'll have more of the docket in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. dot org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've

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Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket this week, and we have a case from Aaron. When preparing berry pancakes, which method is superior? Mixing berries directly into the batter before ladling, or ladling the batter onto the grill and placing the berries on top of the as-yet-uncooked side? The former is Aaron's way. The latter, Alex's way. The mix-in before ladling is Aaron's preference.

The topping on the griddle is Alex's preference. Do I understand that correctly? That's correct. I don't make pancakes. I just don't. That's not my morning treat. Do you make pancakes, Jesse? I do from time to time.

You make them with fresh Maine scallops? I'm sorry, blueberries? If I've got a nice bucket, yeah. Get a nice gallon of blueberries? Mm-hmm. And how would you put the blueberries into that pancake? I would probably put them in the batter. But I would be careful when ladling because they would sink eventually,'t they yeah i mean that's the thing you get even distribution if you put them in the

batter you have to keep them mixed you have to keep it like you know you need you know what you get is a concrete mixing truck that way it never settles right just a big and then just it's constantly turning the berries are getting distributed all the time you're making a ton of sense here john i don't make pancakes they're not my treat i mean i've done it it's constantly turning. The berries are getting distributed all the time. You're making a ton of sense here, John. I don't make pancakes. They're not my treat. I mean, I've done it. It's satisfying to make them. But, and I've never made berry pancakes, but I know someone who has made a lot of blueberry and other berry pancakes. And that is our friends at Shopson's restaurant here in New York City, friends at Shopsin's restaurant here in New York City, which is started by Kenny and Eve Shopsin in the West Village. It's now on the Lower East Side and run by their children, primarily Zach Shopsin, Tamara Shopsin, and Melinda Shopsin. The other two Shopsin brothers are off in the world

not making pancakes for some reason. Fine. So I asked Tamara what she would do and she sent us this audio reply. Hi, my name is Tamara Shopson and my family runs the restaurant Shopsons. When we make pancakes, we put the pancakes down on the griddle and then we sprinkle blueberries in the raw side and then we flip it and cook it. But when we do raspberry pancakes, we mix the raspberries in with the batter. We do this because maybe raspberries are more delicate and they burn before the pancakes cooked or the little pieces fall out. Whereas that doesn't happen with blueberries um and uh why do the extra step if you don't need to with the blueberries because it's a real pain in the to mix the raspberries in with the batter but also you get like a perfect scatter with the blueberries but also it's just the way our dad did

it so that's why we do it do we have to bleep out pain in the ass? Do we bleep that out or no, Jennifer Marmer? Valerie Moffat, do you know what we need to do in order to maintain our coveted non-explicit rating? I would ask Jennifer Marmer. Jennifer Marmer? I feel like ass isn't one of the seven words that you're not allowed to say on radio. So it feels fine to me. I'll say this just for fun. Bleep it out anyway. Jennifer Marmer? I feel like ass isn't one of the seven words that you're not allowed to say on radio, so it feels fine to me.

I'll say this just for fun. Bleep it out anyway. All right. Bleep it out. Leave all of this in and bleep out all the ass. And bleep everything. Got it. You got it.

Bleep out all the ass. Bleep out the ass is what I say. Well, there you have it. The Shopsons way is to scatter blueberries because it is more time efficient. And I would venture to say that people who enjoy blueberry pancakes, and I certainly expect you to write me letters, want a little of that hot scorched blueberry that you only get when that top layer is sort of in contact with the hot top of the grill or the griddle. That scorched blueberry. You know what I'm talking about, Jesse Thorne, right?

Yeah, you kind of get a little bit of the Maillard reaction. A little of the Maillard reaction, exactly. And also, you need to also get a little of that trypophobia trigger, because you have those blueberry holes on top of the pancake. My wife has that. Does she have it? Yeah, and we never had a name for it.

It was long before it became an internet meme. My wife would tell me about how much she hated holes and how upsetting they were to her. Yeah. It's a legit thing. It is discomfort and distress caused by images of things with lots of little holes in them, which are pancakes as well. Pancakes, they have those little bubbly holes. I love them. I love watching pancakes cook, but I don't love eating them. But I guess ultimately, Aaron, it depends on the berry, because you heard it directly from Tamara Shops and Aaron, where raspberries are too delicate to plop on top. You got to mix them in. Send in some more berries, Aaron. Aaron only. I don't need any berries from any of you other people. If there are any other berries on your list,

I'll let you know what to do. I'll check with Tamara. I'll let you know what to do. Here's something from Sarah in Hopkinton, Massachusetts. I find it odd when people go out to eat and all order the same entree at a restaurant. Sometimes if my husband and I go out, I'll change what I'm getting as an entree because he wants the same thing. Is this weird? Should I just get over it? Do servers think it's odd when a group of two to four people all ordered the same thing? I'm going to, first of all, Hopkinton is where the Boston Marathon starts in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, which is the most populated Commonwealth and indeed the only Commonwealth

in New England, which is an area that you know very well, Jesse. Going to be frank, I'm not familiar. And the Boston Marathon, do you know where it ends? I couldn't tell you. The finish line somewhere. Yeah. The finish line. In the back bay.

Yeah, one of those big tapes. One of those big tapes. Where that tape happens to be, that's what you aim for when you're running a marathon. Aim for the tape. Yeah. Aim for the tape. Aiming is so important in marathons. That's right. This is how you running a marathon, aim for the tape. Yeah. Aim for the tape. Aiming is so important in marathons.

That's right. This is the, this is how you win a marathon. Aim for the tape and run your off. Meanwhile, I don't know a lot about what servers think because I've never waited to tables. I did some, I did some work at Claire's Corner Copia, a vegetarian restaurant in New Haven, but I was just running orders out to tables. I was not, Copia, a vegetarian restaurant in New Haven, but I was just running orders out to tables. I was not, you know, a proper server. So if someone ordered, you know, if I were a server and they said, I want to have a grilled cheese sandwich and I want the same

grilled cheese sandwich. I don't know if I'd find that weird. Grilled cheese sandwiches are delicious, but I do know someone who not only has served quite a few tables, but also has served those tables in a restaurant known for its rules that you cannot order the same thing as other people. And that restaurant is Shopson's. And guess what? Tamara Shopson has an identical twin sister named Melinda Shopson, and I received an audio response to your case, Sarah, from her. Hi, I'm Melinda Shopson. I am one of the many siblings that grew up in Shopson's General Store, which is a restaurant that my parents started, Kenny and Eve. And when I was a kid, we had a rule that was the no copying rule, which is not the same as everybody ordering the same

thing. But it meant that you couldn't, if you came in and you sat down and you saw that your neighbor had something you wanted to eat and you said to my mom, like, hey, I want to eat that. What is that? My mom would say, oh, well, that's chicken, pecan, wild rice, enchiladas. And then you would go to order and she's like, oh no, you can't have that because you're copying and that's cheating. Because I guess my dad wanted people to come up with their own ideas,

but also I don't think he really liked cooking things twice. But if you came in with your friend and you both were like, we both want chicken, pecan, wild rice, enchilada, and you hadn't copied from people around you, then you could do that. And that is a little weird. I agree. It's like it's very unusual to get a table where people order the same thing, I have to say. And it's weird.

But, you know, it's it's not the same as no copying. It had never occurred to me in visiting one of those diners that have those extraordinarily long menus, comically long menus, that the issue might be that the chef proprietor doesn't want to cook the same thing twice. Well, Kenny Shopson, who's no longer living, was a highly opinionated person and a very wonderful person if he wasn't yelling at you. And even when he was yelling at you, because probably he was yelling something at you that you needed to hear. And I would encourage you, all the shops do a lot of different things, which I'll mention in our, in our segment in a second, but Kenny Shopson's book, eat me is wonderful. And it really outlays his, his whole philosophy about why you shouldn't order something that someone else is sitting right next to you and eating. I will warn people that

there are some swear words. There's a lot of in this book. You know what I mean? The shops and all the shops and all talk a lot. But in any case, if I were to go to a restaurant and my dining partner was ordering first and they picked an entree that I had my eye on, I would not order the same entree. It's not because it's, I mean, I guess I misunderstood the shops and rule,

which is you can't copy the table next to you, but even at the same table, it just feels like we're here for this experience. Let's try as much of this menu as possible. Not that I'm necessarily going to grab a bite of my neighbor's meal, but it feels a little bit, um, I don't know. There was a movie called single white female. Feels a little copying to be like, yes, I will also have the ratatouille or whatever it is. Do you think that's wrong, Jesse? I think there are restaurants where that's very true. I think there are restaurants where there is a signature dish and it would be appropriate for everyone to order that signature dish.

Okay. If I was in Langer's Delicatessen near Matt's Fun headquarters, and everyone at my table ordered the number 19. Now, to be clear, Valerie's invited, and she hates coleslaw. So she's not going to order the number 19. What's the number 19? That would be pastrami, coleslaw, and Swiss on rye. I'll take two of them. They're spectacular.

Or let's say I was here in Northeastern Los Angeles or in Pasadena. Right. And I visited Pine Burger. Okay. Well, if everyone at my table ordered a cheeseburger and a slice of pie, I wouldn't look askance. Yeah. No, of course not. They have other foods available, but why would you order them?

If you were to go to a pizza parlor and one person gets two slices of pizza, you don't go, oh, shoot, I wanted two slices of pizza. Now I have to eat garlic knots. That's not true. You can get calzones. you know, kind of more in the vein of a diner style restaurant, an informal, large menu, lunch and breakfast restaurant. But still, I feel like if it depends on the place. And if you go to a place where there's a lot of imagination at work in the, in the, in the menu, you should try, you should not all get the same thing. Experiment a little. It's my feeling. But if your question is Sarah, do servers think it's weird if two to four people all order the same thing? I'm going to take Melinda Shopson's word for it. Yeah, they think it's weird. They think that maybe you're aliens. Maybe you're aliens from another planet. Or you're those kids from the village of the damned and you all look

alike and you all order the same thing. You're pretending to be human. It's a little weird. It's a little weird. Do what you need to do, but it's a little weird. I wonder if the server at Le Pan Quotidien thought it was weird that my mom and I both ordered the same waffle the other week when we were there, especially because we look so much alike. I know. I was just going to say, having met your mom last week in New York and picturing the two of you going up to order the same waffle at Le Pain Quo Didien, the daily bread, I would say that the server probably found it to be damn adorable. But it was fun because first of all, the waffle was great. Highly recommend. What, what, tell me about the waffle. It was really good. Number 19? Yeah, it was the number 19. It had coleslaw

and Swiss cheese on it. No, it was mixed berries and whipped cream. It was delightful. Not too big. Was it a big, thick Belgian waffle? Yes, but it wasn't humongous. It was like a really good size. Right. And she ordered it

without the whip because she can't do dairy. And I said, I'll have what she's having, but with the whip. Right. And that was fun to say, I'll have what she's having. I'll have what she's having. It's a perfect argument for copying the other person at the other table. Yeah. I feel like just eat what you want.

Don't think about it too much. Don't think about it too much. But four people ordering the same entree in a restaurant, I'm going to say it's unusual and you will face the consequences of your unusualness. And you know what? We're all unusual in our own ways and we're all facing those consequences with bravery. So that's great. It doesn't matter what the servers think of you. If you really want to eat the thing you want to eat, doesn't matter if your partner gets to it before you do on the menu, go ahead and do it. All right. I'm going to not be judgmental on this one for once.

But you know, the consequence will be the server will be like, yeah, I think we got four midwitch cuckoos out there. That's the original name of Village of the Damned. The movie about those creepy kids who all look alike that no one knows what I'm talking about it's an obscure cultural reference some people are getting it I thought you were calling me and my mom witches but we're just mid no I think it's the mid-witch cuckoos

was the novel that Village of the Damned was based on that all had those identical kids with that platinum blonde hair and they all wear their little suits and then they took over that town Jennifer I'm not going to speak to you and your personality here, but I will say that your mother is anything but mid. The absolute furthest thing from mid. Yeah.

Max. Maximummom.org. Maximummom.org Hey, every week I receive a number of cases involving settled law. People who are writing in not knowing, for example, that a hot dog is not a sandwich and they ask and they just haven't, they just don't know that we've already ruled on a topic. And I don't want to leave these folks hanging in the, in the inbox just because they haven't listened to a podcast for 10 years. That's not fair. So I'm just going to, before we go to the break, just, I'm just going to clear a couple of these out. Great. First of all, to Rose in Durham, we've heard this case a lot.

And the answer is this, listening to audio books is a entirely equivalent experience to reading a physical book or a book on an e-reader. Equivalent in the sense that one is not better than the other. However, they are cognitively different experiences. And for accuracy, I have ruled that you do say you listen to an audio book. You read a book. That said, Rose, your husband, Sasha, is being a jerk by saying that you only listen to it because there's nothing worse about listening to an audiobook. In fact, it's a completely different and in many ways more vibrant experience. So Sasha, you're a jerk. Mark, this is not a message to Mark.

This is a message to Mark's partner in Brantford, Ontario. Hey, Mark's partner, don't punch Mark in his arm so hard when playing punch buggy. I've heard punch buggy cases a number of times. You're not out there to hurt anybody. Just touch his shoulder or better yet, don't touch him at all. He's driving. Your life is in Mark's hands. Earth, wind and fire spoke to the spirit of the buggy. Here we speak to the spirit of the buggy. Ooh. And finally, Andrew, I'm sorry. This is more of an apology, which is rare enough on this, but occasionally warranted. Andrew, I'm sorry I made fun of your favorite high-tech sweat-wicking shirts, athletic shirts. I appreciate that for someone like you, who, as you pointed out in your words, has the

superpower of super sweating, these shirts make a lot of sense. And also several others who wrote in to defend these shirts, especially as part of their fitness journeys. I understand that that was upsetting for you that I called them jerk shirts. These shirts are not jerk shirts, certainly not when worn for exercise, but I contend a lot of jerks wear them to brunch. You know who I mean? The guys who wear their jerk shirts with a smirk, you know, that's not you. That's not you. You don't need to worry about my calling them jerk shirts. If you're not aters out there wearing your jerk shirts at brunch, I hope you drop your eggs Benedict all over your shirt. See how that wicking technology does with that hollandaise. Wick, wick, wick.

Or no, stain, stain, stain. Stain of shame. Do you think those wicking shirts make the sound wicky, wicky, wicky? That's where it came from. Wicky, wicky, wicky. They invented rap, just like the music man. And William Shakespeare. That's right it came from. Wiki, wiki, wiki. They invented rap, just like the music man. And William Shakespeare. That's right, I forgot.

When we come back, a dispute about something called a mayo knife. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-R.

Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go judge hodgman we're taking a break from clearing the docket let's talk about what we have going on right now. Nothing. Nothing is the answer. I personally have nothing going on. Well, because I'm in the midst of not only continuing to record our podcast all summer long, but I'm working on a show, which has been announced.

I'm on a show called Up Here, which will debut on Hulu in the future. It is a eight episode musical romantic comedy that is co-created by our friends, friends of the show, Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson Lopez, who may well be listening to this right now. Thank you, Bobby and Kristen for inviting me to have a small role on the show.

It's a singing role. It's like I'm a music man, almost. But I only kind of harmonize. I don't have any solos, thank God or whatever. And I've been working on it with some incredible actors. It's Mae Whitman and Carlos Valdezz falling in love may whitman from good girls carlos valdez from the flash falling in love in new york city in 1999 and singing about it i play the the disembodied memory of may whitman's dad katie finneran plays the disembodied memory of her mom who was playing my wife it's just it's so much fun. First couple of episodes directed by Tommy Kail, who directed Hamilton. Steven Levinson, who wrote the book for Dear Evan Hansen, is the writer, or one of the main writers on the show, the showrunner.

It's an incredible thing. They said, would you consider doing this? And I said, yes, yes. And again, yes. It's been great. So keep an ear out for it. Up here, it's called, and it will be coming out on Hulu soon. But while I'm doing that, I'm not doing much else.

So let me just suggest a couple of things that you might want to look into. You know, Tamara Shopson is not merely a Shopson who works at Shopson. She is also an incredible graphic designer and illustrator and a novelist and a memoirist. Her latest book is a novel called Laser Writer 2, which is a story about working in the 90s, another sense of theme, at the incredible pre-Apple store, independent Apple repair shop called TechServe. Laser Writer 2, it's a really, really wonderful book. You'll read it in an afternoon. It's terrific, especially if you remember what it was like to use those early Mac computers.

She also designed the book Eat Me by her father, Kenny Shopson. Melinda Shopson is a producer, an Emmy and Sundance award-winning producer of documentaries and other projects and podcasts. Her most recent project, she's produced a podcast called The Just Enough Family with host Ariel Levy from The New Yorker about the incredible success and strange personal experiences of maternity wear revolutionary Liz Lang in New York. It's an incredible podcast that I really loved listening to. And it's all true. And Melinda produced it. It's amazing. And speaking of incredible podcasts that I cannot stop listening to, Jesse, you and I were texting about our friend Karina Longworth's latest series on her incredible podcast about Hollywood history called You Must Remember This.

The erotic 80s, sexy films from the 80s and 90s and the late 70s as well. And as usual, this is the best book I will read this summer. And I'm not even reading it. I'm listening to it. It's a podcast called You Must Remember This. And I remember when the person who recommended it to me told me that, I said, I will never forget until I did. And then I got to text him and say, what was the name of that podcast again? He said, You Must Remember This. That's funny. I really enjoyed it. It's

like one of those gripping nonfiction podcasts. But beyond that, Karina is a really insightful critic. And I think that she brings a lot of her critical insight to these stories about film and filmmaking. And that's something that I am really excited about hearing about. And every episode, I find myself writing down a film that I would like to watch. Jesse, you're one of the delightful people in my life and one of the great connectors in my life. You've introduced me to so much incredible culture and creative people via your NPR interview show Bullseye, which is available on MaximumFun.org every week as well. If you're not subscribed and listened to it already, you must do so. That's right. It's a must.

What have you got going on on Bullseye or the Put This On Shop or whatever else is going on in your life? I just added a whole bunch of new brass belt buckles to the Put This On Shop, including two different judo buckles, one that says four wheeling, some great football and baseball players two pigs that are friends um lots of great belt buckles but i also pursuant to the interests of probably some people in the audience just launched a whole bunch of vintage and antique board games ranging from how silas popped the question to jingo uh to Quizme, the game of riddles. Lots of cool vintage and antique board games. I mean, I'm talking about games that are a hundred years old. You're talking about Jingo,

society's latest game, a game for a roomful from Parker Brothers Incorporated. I also have these, you know, those kind of folders that you keep your notes in at, you know, eighth grade, those kind of folders that you keep your notes in at eighth grade, like a peachy kind of folder. In 1989, the Topps Baseball Card Company produced a bunch of them that are Topps Baseball Cards. So it's the front of the card on the front and the back of the card on the back and a folder inside. And I have Frank Sweet Music Viola, Andres Galarraga, the big cat, El Gato Grande, Ozzy Smith, Mike Greenwell, Dave Winfield, Alan Trammell, Andre the Hawk Dawson, Mike Scott, the fireballer for the Astros, Big Mac, Mark McGuire, Danny Jackson, left-handed starter for the Reds. They're all there. They're all available to you at put this on shop.com. Use the code vintage justice and all, but the largest things shipped for free. Put this on shop.com. And of

course, listen to bullseye everybody. Let's get back to the docket. Welcome back to the judge, John Hodgman podcast. Here's a case from Jillian in Montreal. Montreal. I bought an item at Saint Vitieux Bagels that was labeled a cream cheese spreader. I'm not going to comment on your pronunciation of that. I don't know. It's fine. I got nothing in France. It's bueno, I say. I use it to spread cream cheese.

Then I put it back in the drawer with the other spreaders and spatulas. Then I put it back in the drawer with the other spreaders and spatulas. My husband Fabian, the engineer, argues that because there's a small serrated section, it's actually a knife. He makes a big show of laboriously sawing through the bagel to make his point. And what's worse, he stores it on the magnetic knife strip. What is this thing? and where should it live? And of course, we have a photo of this French-Canadian cream cheese spreader slash serrated bagel knife, whatever it may be, up on our Instagram at Judge John Hodgman and on our show page at MaximumFun.org. And we have a photo of it on a counter and we have a photo of it on the magnetic knife strip.

we have a photo of it on the magnetic knife strip. Before we talk about where it should be stored and what it is, let's just say Montreal bagels are really, really good. They're different from New York bagels, but just like an audio book is equivalent to a printed book, Montreal bagel and the New York bagel are each equally valid bagel foodways, each with rather similar but distinct histories that are very storied and very deep in the Jewish heritage of both cities. So all you New York bagel chauvinists out there, eat it. And by eat it,

I mean one of these delicious Montreal bagels. They're a little sweeter. They got a bigger hole. I like Fairmount bagels, but Saint-Viteau is one of the famous bagel chains up there. They're all really, really good. You can probably order them online. I like them. And they're better than any bagel shaped bread you're going to get in, I hate to say it, Jesse, Missouri. I bet there's some artisanal bagel places in Missouri, but if there are, show me. All right, show me. Okay, enough of that. I just like talking about those bagels. I love them.

Jesse, is this a cream cheese spreader or a bagel knife? What is your take? This is 100% a cream cheese spreader. Right. That serration would be absurd to use to slice a bagel in half. I would delight in seeing the comical scene of this man, Fabian. Fabian. Attempting to slice a bagel with this tiny rounded knife. I would say it's not merely absurd. It would be dangerous to slice a bagel. Agreed. With this serrated knife, because it's not long enough and it's not well serrated enough.

And you are going to cut your finger off. You're going to one of these days, Fabian, you're going to cut your finger off with this thing. Should it therefore be in the spreader drawer, Jesse, or on the knife magnet holder magnetized knife holder if they use it so much that they want to keep it on the knife holder i would be fine with that but functionally speaking it belongs with the spreaders or at the very least with the funny little knives such as those funny little right angle butter knives or whatever. Right. Tiny fork area.

And the funny little knife drawer. Exactly. You see, Jillian is not merely correct in that this is a cream cheese spreader. I don't know. I don't know what those serrations are for. Honestly, I don't know what you would use them for. Maybe to put a little pattern on top of the cream cheese after you've spread it. I don't know what you would use them for. Maybe to put a little pattern on top of the cream cheese after you've spread it. I don't know.

If you know the reason, sans verteur or wherever, send it in. But in meantime, Jillian is not merely angry that he tries to cut bagels with it, but believes that that magnetized knife holder is a place of pride where that stumpy little spreader does not belong. And I know this because, you know, before I could even answer, I got another letter from Jillian talking about their mayo knife. Now, obviously they had my attention because I like mayonnaise a lot and I don't eat it with a knife.

I eat it with a spoon, sometimes wrongly at 2 a.m. But apparently there's some kind of knife. And she wrote, after I told Fabian that I'd written to you, Judge John Hodgman, I woke up the next day to find that he'd escalated the situation. He used a strip of magnetic tape to make his mayo knife capable of being affixed to the magnetic knife bar. In the hierarchy of cooking tools, knives are tops. And he keeps wedging his ridiculous knot knives into and onto the spaces for the actual knives we use and she sent in a photo of this mayo knife which is this oddly shaped knife and it says on it mayo knife does it not yeah it says so right there i don't know if this is

something they only have in canada or something i can get here in the United States, but it is a appropriately mayonnaise colored plastic spreader that is shaped so that it can scoop out. It's, it's the curve of its blade is perfectly molded to fit the inside of what I can only believe is a delicious jar of no name brand mayonnaise from Canada. It's an ingenious device that I want one. And again, this is not a knife. This is a spreader. You cannot cut anything with this. Try to cut a bagel with this. You're going to have a bagel fly up into your eye and then you're going to go to the hospital because your eye is infected with everything seasoning. This is only for getting that last bit of mayo out of the jar and spreading it on whatever sandwich you're going to spread it onto.

It's a delightful thing. Despite its name, it is not a knife. Would you agree, Jesse Thorne? That's correct. Jennifer Marmer, are you looking at this thing? Yeah, that's not a knife. Not a knife, right? It's a spreader.

Definitely a spreader. It's mislabeled. And yet, it belongs on that knife bar. Because this thing is tops. Put that cream cheese spreader in the drawer. But I love the pride of place that this mayo knife is enjoying. And Fabian, you're absolutely wrong about the cream cheese spreader. That is a spreader, not a knife. But I got to honor the Quebecois ingenuity that went into putting magnetic strip onto your mayo knife. So you could not only store it in a place where you or I, if I ever come into your house can handily grab it, but also frankly,

annoy Jillian in a very, very creative way. I love that mayo knife. I love where it is. This is a split decision, Jillian, but I call them as I spread them. The docket's clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producers, Jennifer Marmer, our editor, Valerie Moffitt. Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Maximum

Fund subreddit to discuss this episode. That's MaximumFund.reddit.com. A lot of friendly people there on the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode. That's maximumfun.reddit.com. A lot of friendly people there on the MaxFun Reddit. I always appreciate it. Yeah, I love going over there to that Reddit and checking it out and saying hi to people. Also, as you can tell from this episode, we have a lot of expert friends of this court, many of whom have been on the show before, many of whom haven't. And they're not all named Shopsin. on the show before, many of whom haven't, and they're not all named Shopsin. If you have a dispute that can only be settled by someone you think that I or Jesse or Jennifer might know, send it in. Say, I have a dispute for XYZ person. I can't promise that I'm going to be able to get

Bruce Campbell, for example, to record a voice memo resolving your dispute with your college roommate over the best Bruce Campbell movie or TV role. But I will try. If you think that I can reach out to these people, maybe I can get a voicemail from them, put them on the show. Just make sure you go to maxmanfund.org slash JJHO and send in your dispute. You know, when we first became friends, you got Bruce Campbell to come on The Sound of Young America, the predecessor to Bullseye.

I did that? Yeah, you did. And he was so wonderful. Such a delight. to come on The Sound of Young America, the predecessor to Bullseye? I did that. Yeah, you did. And he was so wonderful. Such a delight. Such a delight. Pizza Papa always gets paid. Whatever your dispute with Bruce Campbell is, we want to hear about it.

No, no disputes with Bruce Campbell. No? No. No? No, it's got to be a dispute between you and your friend over something that only Bruce Campbell knows the answer to. Okay. So if you have a dispute with Sam Raimi, if you're friends with Sam Raimi and you have a dispute that only Bruce Campbell can settle or any other dispute, no case too small, submit

them to us, MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's Maximumfun.org slash JJHO. We will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience supported.