Judge John Hodgman - Mi Casa Es Shoeless Casa

Episode Date: February 5, 2015

A wife thinks her husband is too strict about their no-shoe policy inside the home.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, mi casa es shoeless casa. Julia brings the case against her husband, Sean. Sean likes to keep the house neat and clean. He insists that all guests remove their shoes before entering. Julia says the guests' comfort is paramount. They shouldn't have to take off their shoes if they don't want to. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the court. Shiny black and blue, these shoes know what to do. They're going to make a deep impression on you. Gonna get you now, trap and tie you. Now, trap and tie you. Gonna get you now. Ankle and thigh you. Gonna get you now. Hook and eye you.

Gonna get you now. Hang and dry you. I'm gonna get you. Freaks like me need company. And thus I turn to bailiff Jesse Thorne asking him to swear the litigants in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do.

I do as well. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that for him shoes are unnecessary? Yes. Yes, I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Julia and Sean, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I quoted directly? As I enter the courtroom, I will go.

Julia, you bring this case to the court, so you get first guess. Julia? Based on context clues, I'm going to guess Kinky Boots. That is incorrect. Sean, do you know the answer? I have a foggiest. No, I know you don't. And Julia, that was one where I really got scared you were going to get it.

And then you actually came pretty close. You came pretty close. It was from a Broadway musical. But this particular song was only in the Broadway musical for a period of time before the musical was reworked and this song was cut. Now, do you know the answer? Not that it's going to get you an immediate summary judgment in your favor, but you're going to feel great if you do.

I still have no idea. How many times a year do you go to the Broadway theater? Very rarely. Sometimes Broadway in Boston. Where do you live? North of Boston in Methuen. It's on the New Hampshire border. Atlanta. Yeah, Delta's got a cheap flight.

Oh, I said a brand name. That's okay. I'm a SkyMiles member. Delta's got a cheap flight. Oh, I said the set of brand name. That's okay. I'm a, I'm a SkyMiles member. Delta got a cheap flight to Boston. So we go up and we see wicked from time to time in Boston. Uh, the Wang center.

No. Oh, Methuen. Okay, sure. Uh, uh, so you can't guess,

can't guess. This is not a show that has ever toured, nor will it. Jesse, can you guess? I have no idea. It is Spider a show that has ever toured, nor will it. Jesse, can you guess? I have no idea. It is Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark. The Broadway musical, the original producer, creator, director, Julie Taymor, had changed much of the Spider-Man mythos,

much of the Spider-Man mythos, including creating a new villain called Arachne, the spider goddess, the goddess of weaving, who gets so furious that she goes out on a shoe-shopping expedition, and that's one of the big songs of the second act.

The song was called Deeply Furious, and only a few choice people in the world got to see it before the producers said, you're fired, Julie Taymor, and reworked the entire musical. Guess who was one of the few choice people to see Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark in previews when Julie Taymor was still in complete charge? Can you guess?

If I guess that, can i get a summary judgment in my favor absolutely not yes sean you're correct thanks for not thanks for not trying to play games with this court obviously it was me what are you you're talking to a complete narcissist of course it's me i'm not going to turn up a chin turn off a chance to turn off or turn up the dark, or turn down a chance is what I mean to say, to brag about going to see this weird piece of half-beautiful, half-catastrophic theater Julie Taymor worked up. Guess who I was sitting next to at this thing?

Jesse. No. I would have loved to have seen, I'd like to see any musical theater with you, Jesse. You got any shows you want to see? Yeah, actually, I'm going to come to New York. I really want to see Hedwig. Great.

John Cameron Mitchell's returning to the title role. I'm going with you. Oh, awesome. I saw Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark, one of the most controversial Broadway theater shows of all time, in a preview that was arranged for me by, that was arranged by the TED conference. And as a former TED speaker, I was invited to this thing.

And so I got to see this. I was sitting next to, first of all, the answer to the question is sitting next to Jackson Public, the creator of Venture Brothers, which just had its triumphant return to the Adult Swim with its hour-long special the other night last week. You should go check that out. Delightful guy, delightful show.

But then also part of this weird group of people was David Byrne of Talking Heads. It was quite a surreal evening for old John Hodgman. I sure didn't see that happening. And then I watched that show, and, you know know going into the previews everyone was talking about all the injuries in the show are you aware of this sean and julia uh very aware yes i heard things about it right because sean you're on the you're on broadway.com all the time following all the gossip uh yeah i actually do follow up on uh entertainment news so i did follow up and it was a very expensive uh show was a very expensive show.

I remember. Very expensive show. Very ambitious. I mean, the thing is, Julie Taymor is a genius. Like when you see some of the set designs and some of the things,

the tableau, the things she creates on stage, like there's no denying that she's a genius. But I think it was also pretty clear. She never liked Spider-Man. Which if it were me, I would have said, no, thank you. Let someone else do Spider-Man.

But she's the kind of genius who's like, yeah, I can figure out how to fix this broken story, this broken thing that no one likes. Wait a minute. No, it's not. It's Spider-Man. Everyone likes it. And there's nothing broken about it. It's okay. She's cool.

But, you know, there were a lot of flying uh people on wires and stuff a lot of wire work spider-man turn off the dark which is what we were talking about you guys was hurting hurting people like the cast members were falling down and getting very very seriously injured and people were going to the show the show to see if something terrible was going to happen. I think there were some grim people in the audience. But it wasn't until I saw the butt of a Spider-Man flying inches above my face that I realized it's just as likely that I'm going to get killed as anyone else. Dangerous, dangerous show. Would you characterize it as a standard butt or a super butt?

It was a super butt. It was a radioactive spider bit butt. All right, but on to the case at hand. Julia, you bring this case to the court complaining about your husband. Is that correct, Sean? Husband? Yes. No, excuse me, Sean. I'm talking to Is that correct, Sean? Husband? Yes.

No, excuse me, Sean. I'm talking to Julia. Oh, I am her husband, though. Yes, husband. Husband of eight, almost nine years. And you live in Methuen, and you share a home, and what does Sean do wrong all the time? Okay, well, the thing that he does wrong all the time that we're talking about today is the over-enforcement of the no-shoe policy. I don't have any problem with a general no-shoe policy. I like it. I do hope that people will take off their shoes when we come into the house.

And I'm very happy that we remove our shoes going into the house. And I would say that most people, especially those around our age and generation, automatically take off their shoes when entering a home. So you have a no-shoe policy in the home because you don't want outside dog poop all over the place in your house. This is the case, yes. Right, okay. And all the other things that people come into contact with via their shoes outside of the home yeah i didn't mean to just say dog poop poops of all kind all kinds of all kinds of their fecal matter is just everywhere but sean takes it too far yes because he makes people do what well he

how does he take it too far he explicitly asks guests if they don't look like they're going to take off his shoes. He heads off the situation by explicitly saying, could you just take off your shoes before coming in the house? And this includes people that we know not well at all, people that we're meeting for only the second or third time. This includes people who are quite a bit older than us, some of whom might have physical discomfort removing shoes and putting shoes back on. They might have gross bunions. That's what I'm just saying. This also includes people who did not think of our no-shoe policy and therefore either wore inappropriate socks, stinky socks, socks with holes in them, or no socks at all.

You can't do anything for those people, Julia. Well, that's kind of his point. Inappropriate socks. They will find no comfort at this court. You understand what I'm saying? They'll find no defense. Well, Sean's going to be happy to hear this, but my feeling is that it's more important when people enter our home. I care about the cleanliness of the floors as well, but I feel it's more important to start off our social gatherings on a note of friendliness and welcoming.

Well, yeah, on a note of welcome instead of ordering around. Exactly, exactly. So my feeling is that if someone doesn't remove... So what would you... Yes. Please. Well, I think you're getting exactly what I was going to ask. If I were to make an order in your favor, what would you have me do?

Okay. So what I would like is to set a very good passive-aggressive example of shoe removal, which we already do in the home. Right. We have a mudroom and we have a basement entry area. And wherever you come into our home, you will see shoes lined up. You will see a very convenient area for removing shoes. Okay. Well, we can get into all of the subtle cues that you're giving to these poor people who are coming over to your apartment.

But you would like me to prohibit, you want me to issue a gag order on shoe talk at the doorstep. Exactly. Exactly. I want Sean to be prohibited from saying out loud, can you please remove your shoes? Because I feel it sets the wrong tone for a social gathering. So if old Mrs. McCarthy comes in, Sean can't say, take off your shoes, you old lady. That is exactly what I'm hoping for. Except I would say, you old bag.

See those horns. All right, Sean, why is this unfair? Where to begin here? No, it's not hard. Here's how you begin. That's unfair. Probably with the shoe interaction. First of all, I'm wearing socks right now. Is that okay?

You want to wear socks in my own house? There you go. Good job. I mean, when most people come in... I don't like that at all. I don't need your approval. Most people aren't... I don't know if I would say why smart enough to get the subtle clues that we get them, give them. So I have to, you know, just say, do you mind taking your shoes off? I try not to be, you know, mean about it or anything, but I mean,

How often, how often are you entertaining where, you know, like one time out of 10, five times out of 10, let's do an out of 10 basis. If you were to estimate ballpark, don't say you can't guess how often when you entertain, do you feel you have to instruct this dumb person to take off his or her shoes? Oh, like nine out of 10. Nine out of 10. Yeah. When it's people that are coming to the house quite a bit.

Yeah, when it's people who haven't been properly trained by you already. Exactly. Exactly right. You have to say, can you please take your shoes off? So when it's a new person, elderly relative, a tradesperson, a new colleague that you're visiting, who you've invited over for the first time, nine out of 10 times, you have to tell that person,

take off your shoes. Yes, absolutely. But she didn't tell you one thing. So we do have a sign that says, mudroom, the dirt stops here. But even with that, people don't, like I'll wait, I'll let people come into the mudroom,

I'll wait a beat but if then they take another couple steps towards the door that's when i do you do that uh i don't know if i do that but i say oh can you you know you might just take your shoes off before you come in jesse thorn my bailiff oh bailiff my bailiff, oh bailiff, my bailiff. Yes, our judge, my judge. I just need to check with you, get a reality check from a man of the West. Does the term, does the term, because I am a man, I am a man of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, so I know what a mudroom is. Do you know what a mudroom is?

Is this a regionalism that I need to explain? You do need to explain it. I've only been able to figure out what it is by inference. Julia, explain what a mudroom is. Are you from Massachusetts, Julia? Oh, I am. Yes, I'm from Salisbury. Sean is from North Andover. Right. Okay. We are lifers. Lifers, indeed. Okay. So, Julia, explain what a mudroom is to room that no New England home should be without. It's a small entryway before the actual home, which often has a place to hang your snowy, wet, disgusting coats and a place to line up your snowy, muddy, disgusting shoes. So it keeps the mud in that room. And then ostensibly, you won't be tracking everything from the New England elements into the rest of the house.

Right. You come in pretty judgy about. Welcome. Welcome to New England. Sorry, my room doesn't have my house doesn't have one of these special rooms. Yeah, that's because that's because you live in Los Angeles and you were and you were raised in San Francisco where it is usually temperate. And you are not dealing with a winter. And, you know, look, I was just up there in Massachusetts last weekend performing with Jordan Klepper and Trayvon Free of The Daily Show at Boston University. What a time we had.

Sorry, I didn't tell you guys about it on the podcast, but it was for BU students only. One of those weird things. But we had that snowstorm. You guys got hit by that. Not this one, but the last one. Saturday. Right. That was not.

Today we got 31 inches. Yes. Yeah, you just got hit. You got hit by the snougnerock that we didn't get in New York. Right. But right before the big snowstorm, there was a mini snowstorm, and I remembered what it was like to grow up in Massachusetts, where it's like you cannot go out in the day without plunging your foot

above ankle height into a deep lake of gray slush. And then you've got to bring that home. And that's where the mudroom comes in handy. It is a transitional room where you can shed your coat and all the garbage that New England throws at you constantly. The day of snow. New England is not a kind place to shoes or delicate soles or delicate souls or people who don't like sports. All right.

So now we know what a mudroom is. Uh, Sean, uh, nine times out of 10, uh, you're telling people to take off their shoes. Right.

And there's one other thing she said that wasn't true. Elderly people. I do, you know, elderly and people that are not healthy. I'm not going to force them to take their shoes off. I mean, I'm not that crazy. So if a person has difficulty taking their shoes off.

Well, now you've described the entire population of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Elderly people and people who are not healthy. Oh, nice. I don't know about that. That's just what I remember. I mean, native Massachusettsians. Not those kids who go to college and run around all the time. Yeah. All right.

So you have an exemption for the elderly? Yeah, elderly or infirmed, I guess. But he would still ask them to take their shoes off, and they would have to say to him, I am old and feeble. I cannot. I think that he should just leave it to the discretion. no, I'm old and feeble. I cannot. I think that he should just know. I have like an age thing. Age.

And if you can touch your toes, I mean, I have a 91 year old aunt. I would never I'd never have asked her to take her shoes off. You make her touch her toes before she comes into the house every time. No, but if she can't do it, if you still can't do it, grandma. All right. You may leave your. But you know how All right. You may leave your pumps on. People are so lazy that they're like, oh, I didn't wear my Velcro shoes. I don't want to have to take them off today.

Is that the problem? You have an attitude towards your visitors that they're all a bunch of lazy bums? Julia, yes or no? Does Sean have an attitude toward the visitors that they're all a bunch of lazy, contemptible bums who are tracking garbage into his beautiful house? I think that this whole issue is symptomatic of an attitude towards visitors that Sean could work on.

How would you characterize that attitude towards visitors, Julia? Oh, this is going to create work for me. That's the attitude towards visitors julia oh this is going to create work for me that's the attitude towards visitors oh man oh that's his ad i thought i thought you were i thought you were getting mad at me because i was creating oh no no i didn't ask you to be on the podcast you asked to be on the podcast i think that although he wants visitors i think there's a part of him that just groans and thinks, I'm going to have to clean up after these people. They're going to be touching my floors.

And I think that... I actually enjoy it. Well, maybe they would be touching your floors less if you were asking them not to touch their toes so often. People coming in palming your floors all the time. You keep a neat house, Sean? Yes. People coming in palming your floors all the time. You keep a neat house, Sean? Yes, I very much enjoy cleaning, and I like things to be nice and clean. You like things to be nice and clean, right? Yeah.

I like the vacuum marks on the carpet and stuff. I can't relax without having a clean house. Can't relax. So you're saying this is a pathological situation. No, I mean, I'm not, you know. Jesse, I was going to try to tease that out of him gently. Of course he's going to deny it now. Let me ask you, when you say you like the patterns that the vacuum makes on the rug,

do you have very specific patterns to have to use every time? No. Yeah, I try to make it as Patriot simple. Or else you have to touch the light switch three times and say pure 50 times to yourself. No, I don't do any of that stuff. No. It's just like when I sit down at night, I would prefer the house to be nice and clean and then I can just relax. You know, if there's stuff everywhere and there's dirt, then it's harder for me to relax.

When some old person comes walking through, messing up, walking through your house. Let's say he or she has walked over your carpet and has messed up the pattern. And then they say, thanks for everything. Goodbye. How do you feel when you look around the house? Like it's been poisoned? like it's been contaminated um yeah i mean not the pattern so much but it's just the the germs like perfect example my uh uncle came over for thanksgiving and he had taken his shoes off and then he left and then came back in to go to the bathroom and he didn't take the shoes off the second time just because he's like oh i just got to go to the bathroom i'll only be a second well i mean the damage is done why because he had pre

poop germs no would you say that after he did that were your carpets salvageable no but you know i guess i i i looked you should probably burn them i would would say. Now, I did a little research. Now, I guess I was supposed to turn in evidence beforehand, but they just really quick. Only if you want to win the case. Really quick. The University of Arizona did a test on people's shoes, and they found nine different species of bacteria on people's shoes. And these bacteria can cause infections in our stomachs, eyes, and lungs.

And, you know, we didn't say at the beginning, we have a two-year-old, and it said that two-year-olds are the most vulnerable to these germs because they're in the floor, and they put their hands in their mouth, and all this stuff. So I just... Well, hold on, hold on. You have a two-year-old? Yes. And at the end of every day, your floor is vacuumed enough that you can see those

vacuum lights not every day but you know every couple days but we do spend time every night picking up and stuff first of all i would just like to commend sean as a native of massachusetts and i i hope you don't feel self-conscious about this but i just love the way you say bacteria she she said that you were gonna make fun of my accent and i said no he's from boston he's And I hope you don't feel self-conscious about this, but I just love the way you say bacteria. She said that you were going to make fun of my accent. And I said, no, he's from Boston. He's not going to make fun of it. I'm not making fun of it.

I'm just pointing out the bacteria. Yeah. That's a very New England thing to add an R. Just the hint, the lightest soup song of an R sound at the end of, say, bacteria or tuna. Right? I love it. I love it. I'm not making fun.

Please don't be self-conscious. I just want... We have a lot of aspiring actors in our listenership, and I just want them to roll back and hear that. That's a very specific New England thing. and hear that. That's a very specific New England thing. You're ever asked to be in a play that is set in New England and has a guy who is obsessed with cleanliness in it, you're going to have to

say that word that way. I don't have a Boston accent. My dad grew up with a New England accent, Massachusetts accent. My dad grew up in Fitchburg. He grew up with one. His family has one, but my mom was from Philadelphia and I just grew up emulating people who talked on PBS. So I didn't get it. And I can't even

do it. So there you go. I'm a real alien. I'm an outsider. You probably wouldn't want me walking through your house. I would gladly have you as long as you took your shoes off. Yeah, but you know, when you talk about uncle dirty coming back in to use the band. Yeah. I, I kind of, you know,

I'm sitting here going, I don't know, which is grosser. Uncle dirty walking in with his shoes on or uncle dirty walking in with his shoes off. You know what I'm saying? Because I mean, there's a lot of,

there's a lot of junk on the bottom of people's shoes, of course, but having been a guest in many a no-shoe home, I've felt very self-conscious about the odors and weird junk on the bottom of my own feet. weird junk on the bottom of my own feet. Not to mention the weird junk that the bottom of your feet accumulate thanks to soft textures and static electricity. Well, right. And also, yeah, I mean, that's a, I guess I would like someone from the New England Journal of Medicine, for example, to weigh in on the comparative microbiome,

the comparative microbial bacteria population in the warm human environment of someone's toe jam versus the bottom of their sneakers. It's just a question. I'm just trying to get in your head, Sean. Now you'll never be. You'll never be calm. No, I'm not. So wait, so now we're back to whether you think shoes are okay in the house at all

or just elderly people. Because even Jules admits that, or Julia, excuse me. Yeah, no, that's fine. I call her Jules. Yeah, well, in Massachusetts, you're allowed one term of endearment a year. Okay. She even agrees that there should be no shoes, but we can't, you know, actively ask that person. Yeah, but you're doing a nine out of ten julia when you when you when you nine out of ten of new people but on a on

a day-by-day basis people coming in what would be your estimate of the times that sean orders vocally orders a person to take off their shoes whether they're new people or old people just on a day-to-day basis in a month and a in a week, or whatever, like how many, 50% of the time, less than 50% or more than 50%? Oh, I would say no more than 50%, maybe less, because a lot of times if we have a family dinner, it's people that are close enough to us to be aware of Sean's tendencies. No, but he's saying new people, new people. No, no, no, I'm saying not new people.

From a practical point of view, how often is this happening in your household? Julia says, and this jives with you, you're saying 90% of the time when they're new people. Oh, right, right. And then once you have beaten them down into your way of thinking. Once I break them in, yeah. Yeah. Then it drops to a little less than 50% of the time. When Uncle Dirty comes in and you ask him to take off his shoes,

what does he wear? Socks? Right. Yes, he had socks on that day. But no matter what is going on in someone's shoe, and hopefully there isn't stink and all that stuff, it's going to be much better than what's on the soles of your feet. Trust me.

You guys know, going into a man's urinal, that what would you say, like 70% goes into the urinal and the rest of it's on the soles of your feet. Trust me. You guys know going into a men's urinal that, what would you say, like 70% goes into the urinal and the rest of it's on the floor? I don't go into a men's urinal as much as I used to. I usually just pee into it. I met in a men's bathroom when you use a men's urinal. You're usually standing and stuff that, you know, it's supposed to end up in the urinal. So I don't want that on my floor or my carpet where my son's going to be blanking.

Yeah, you don't want Uncle Dirty peeing all over your apartment. I get it. A note about him claiming that this is about where our son plays. He was more strict and more neurotic about this before we had a child. And he had to become much more lax about how many times a week he's allowed to vacuum and how often he uses a brand name floor cleaner on our hardwood floors and tile. Once we had a baby, he actually became much more lax. Why did you become why did he become more lax actually let me let me direct that to sean why did you relax well jules talked me into it she she beat me down after how many years and convinced me and she you know rightfully so made

me she beat you down into relaxing or beat you down into having a child? No, no, no, no. Relaxing, relaxing. Yeah. He was the one who wanted children more. He was the one whose biological clock was running more urgently. And I said, if we're going to have children, you have to relax a little bit on the rules of household cleanliness. And it's a good thing that he did because we had an infant who spit up a lot. But I'd rather have my son spit up on stuff than people's stuff that's on the bottom of their

shoes. Yeah, you're not grossed out by your own son's spit up. No, of course not. That's ambrosia. But I object to his using our son's health and safety as... You think he's being disingenuous? I believe so, because he was just as squeamish about people's shoes in the home before we had a child. Pre-birth, before the birth of your son, what were the rules of cleanliness? What were the rules of cleanliness, or at least the ones you remember as being... No, no, not you, sir! I love when you yell at people so that was good then you might get it again julia maybe i wasn't clear enough stop snickering julia yes

what what were the rules of cleanliness and specifically the rules that prompted you to say these can't be the rules anymore? Well, the rules regarding the no shoe policy were pretty much the same. He would ask everybody. Right. But I want to get a bigger picture. You told me that you convinced Sean to relax with regard. Yes. I don't want to say obsessive, but I want to say it. The obsessive cleanliness.

What were the rules that you were like, we have to take it easy on this? And I only want to hear from Julia. Yes. Before having a child, I would estimate that he used a wet floor mopping device that he's very fond of. Thank you for assiduously avoiding brand names. He would use this at least every other night, if not every night after dinner. And he would clean the kitchen counters with real cleaner, not just wiping them down with a cloth, every night after dinner. with real cleaner, not just wiping them down with a cloth,

every night after dinner. And he would make all of the stainless steel appliances spotless and wipe off all of my egregious fingerprints, I would say at least every third day. And since having a child, he restricts himself to a schedule of once weekly for all of these things. And sometimes I could swear that he's sneaking it down to every five days. And I'll say, didn't you just vacuum this room? And he'll say, no, no, that was a week ago.

So he is on a once a week schedule for a lot of the things that he used to do almost daily. In my defense, most women would love to have a guy that clean that much. Yeah, well, you are applying the great fallacy of all marriages. Most women would love to have a guy that clean that much. Yeah. Well, you are, you are, you're applying the great fallacy of all marriages, which is to say,

which is to say other people would love what I do. You know, you say that you might as well, you might as well be saying I'm about to leave you. So careful. So, careful. But you know what I want to say, Sean? I don't know whether you have a particularly high standard of cleanliness or whether you're driven by an unhealthy obsession, but I like your style.

I like to keep it clean. This is between me and Sean now, Julia. I like to keep it too. I like to keep it clean. This is between me and Sean now, Julia. I like to keep it clean. I like to keep it clean, too. I can see that. Wipe down. Thorough wipe down once a week. That would take some discipline on my part.

I would say every three days for sure. But, you know, when you've got a kid, you can't keep up. You can't keep up with the germs that that kid is spreading all over the place. You can't do it. There are too many fluids coming out of that thing. I liked how he was wiping off all of your fingerprints. Julia, did he ever instruct you to burn off your fingerprints so that you would no longer sell the stainless steel?

Please don't give him ideas. I'm sure that he would love that. But he does instruct me on how to touch the stainless steel appliances so that I don't leave fingerprints. Our refrigerator. I got to say, you're right. You know, Sean, you're not wrong in that a lot of husbands don't do what you do. And how is it that you have come to be this way?

You mean become better and less strident or originally? No, I mean, at a baseline, and I don't mean to trade in stereotypes, line and I don't mean to trade in stereotypes, but it is not common for husbands to do traditionally and perhaps statistically, for husbands to do the lion's share of the grunt work, scrubbing and cleaning that you are doing in this apartment of floors and surfaces, for example. And when it happens, it is sometimes driven by a psychological necessity, but sometimes not. How did you come to it? I think that's just the way it was with my parents mostly my father did

a lot of the work and I genuinely enjoy cleaning I put my headphones on and I listen to some really good podcasts you know one about a judge a guy who's supposed to be a judge all right you know I do my vacuuming I clean the bathrooms and stuff and it's just I don know. I just don't mind it. Yeah. All right. Cool. Do you ever, when you come home.

It's like therapeutic. I don't know. When you come home. Well, technically, Sean, therapy would be therapeutic. When you come home with groceries, do you do the shopping or do you split it? No, we split that. Do you do the shopping or do you split it? No, we split that, yeah.

When you buy cans of tuna fish, do you wash the cans before you put them into the cupboard? No. See, I don't do stuff like that. No. But you've heard of it, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't need everything in a certain direction in the fridge or anything like that. You've thought about it? You've thought about it?

Have you thought about washing the cans of tuna? No, but I do like a clean fridge i like things you know straight in the fridge and that's all constant all right good good good good good good that's that's usually my what my acid test about whether someone is driven by a by a pathology or whether or whether they uh they they just like things the way they like them. Now, can I just say one thing that got mixed up in all this, I think, at the beginning, was I'm open to compromise. I said that I will buy some rubber things that go on feet that I won't name the brand, or like the little nurse footies that they wear in hospitals. Like for a clean room?

Yeah, exactly. What a brave compromise, Sean. If people don't want to take their shoes off, they can put those on. People can wear those weird shoe hair bags? Sean wishes to further humiliate any guest that refuses to remove their shoes

by forcing upon them the dunce cap of footwear. And he specifically suggested a shirt. Sean is willing to compromise. He's willing to add a silkwood bath to the mudroom. But I could provide slippers that they could wear. What's wrong with that? Have you ever had a situation julia

where someone has come in and sean said get your shoes off grandma or whatever and the visitor has clearly or maybe even has spoken to you afterward about like that was really embarrassing because i was wearing dumb socks or I worried that my feet smelled. Yes, there have been numerous occasions. There has been one occasion. When you say that one is not numerous, that is a number. When you say numerous, how many numerous? I can think of three or four incidents off the top of my head. Okay. Name, name, give me, give me one example.

Okay. One example was that a guest came over, a guest of a family member, not someone that we knew well at all. Sean requested that everybody move their shoes. He said so explicitly, this person I imagine would have left their shoes on had they not been requested to remove them. And they had very noticeably smelly socks. Yeah, it was bad. It was really bad. I felt really bad. I felt like if this person noticed the odor, then they must feel uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable for them. And I felt that them having their shoes on and feeling comfortable in our home would have been really preferable to being in this embarrassing situation. Jesse Thorne, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, just another reality check.

This is a science check. Do you know scientifically if you can smell your own feet? I mean, are you asking me to run a controlled experiment? I'm not asking you to smell your feet right now. Thank goodness. I'm just trying to think. Have I ever smelled my own feet? But you did have a situation where this guy's feet smelled in your apartment?

Yes. And did the person obviously know it? No, not at all. the person obviously know it? No, not at all. I mean, the person emitted a musty odor overall. Alright, so no, no, no. What I'm asking

you is, have you ever, Julia, been approached by a guest saying, I really wish I didn't have to take my shoes off? Once, yes. Oh, what? Who? I agree, Sean. Who? Who was it? No, one, somebody wanted to run in and use the restroom and leave.

And because I'm well-trained by Sean, I said, oh, okay, great. Could you just take your shoes off in the mudroom and leave them? Because I did see that they weren't shoes that involved laces. They were slip-ons. And the person said, oh, you know what? I'll just wait and use the restroom at my destination. Why is everyone leaving your house and then coming back in to use the bathroom? I don't know. We have amazing restrooms. But other than that, I don't know.

I imagine they're very clean. They are quite clean. Are you having only seven-year-olds over as guests? All right, before you leave, do you need to use the bathroom? No. Are you sure? Yeah. Ding dong.

I need to go, and I don't want to take my shoes off. Uncle Dirty's back. But people do make joking comments about Sean's cleanliness, and before I forced him to relax a little bit, people would make joking comments that bordered on letting me know that they didn't feel welcome in the home. So I am sensitive to the fact that I want to make sure that. Like what did they say? What did they say? What's the joking comment?

Well. Go on. Once I had a very close relative visiting with a baby and Sean didn't have the experience of having a baby in his home yet. So he was very like, you could see all of his muscles in his face tensing up every time the baby went near anything or could I just ask you to take your shoes off? And do you mind if I just dip your baby in some bleach?

Right. And he of course hadn't moved any of his delicate breakables out of the way. And the person visiting us said to me, who was going to stay with us for a few days, said, would it be better if I just went to a hotel? And the person was being sincere because they did feel like Sean was very stressed out and bothered by their presence and by their disturbing his perfect environment. And by their disturbing his perfect environment. And of course, he's not that extreme now, but he could stand to loosen up on the shoe issue a little bit. any hint of social conflict. I'm a conflict avoider. And if I feel like anybody's in the least bit offended by us asking them to remove their shoes, or if I feel like somebody is put off by the way we welcome them into our home, that does stress me out. Yeah, I'm easily made anxious by any possibility of social friction.

I'm getting such a bad rap in all this. People are going to think I'm crazy and that I'm a bad guy and I don't like visitors. None of those things are true. No one thinks that, Sean. Why did you say that? That's what people are going to think. I'm telling you guys might not think that. Maybe that's what you're afraid you think of yourself.

Ooh, that's deep. Yeah, it is deep. Also, people are going to think that. No, no one's going to think that, Sean. You just have certain standards, okay? But let me ask you a question. What are the fragile breakables that you were afraid that this baby was going to destroy? Collectibles that I keep around the house.

Go on. This could be a whole other podcast. Go on, Sean. This is like the Frozen one you did recently. Please continue. They're Disney collectibles that I have around the house. And you know what? Hooray!

You want to hear something funny? And they resemble toys. No, they do not resemble toys. But let me tell you this. So I had all these things and we were getting a dog. We got a dog first to break me into having something that was going to bring dirt into the house. And everybody's like, oh, you're going to have to get rid of all this stuff when you

get a dog. The dog didn't touch it. Then I was, when Jules was pregnant, people said, oh, you're going to have to move all your Disney stuff. Whoops, sorry. And because the you're going to have to move all your Disney stuff. Whoops, sorry. And because the baby's going to break everything. Didn't have to move a thing because he's never broken a thing. He just, so, you know, those.

Sean. Yes. Sean. Are you guys employees of Disney? No. Did the Disney people send you on to my podcast, just like that last couple? He wishes. Yeah, someday when I'm like 65 and retired, I'll be working for Disney.

Is this a setup? Is Disney trying? Oh, I think Disney. I think they might want to buy your podcast, like you said. No, I don't think that they want to buy my podcast. That's the thing. I think they've got enough people out there in the world, sleeper cells like you guys, to come on, talk about smelly feet and Uncle Dirty for a while until they can slip in to

talk about their Disney figurines. I'm much better at avoiding brand names than Sean is. I would have said a certain popular mouse. Someone sent me a picture of a bag of Utz pretzels with a frozen theme. I was so excited. What if Disney and Utz teamed up to sponsor this podcast?

The Diz Nuts Justice Podcast Network. Tell me about what these collectibles are because you've been dancing around this. You've been dancing around your breakables. But I'm going to have them come crashing down. What are we talking about here? You know, like the partner statue of Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse holding hands.

And there's some Disney Cruise Line stuff that I just... Oh, it's going to come out. You might as well tell him. Just tell me. Are they statuettes? What do they make of? Yes, statuettes. Statuettes, figurines.

Yeah, one of them is very rare because I know you said if they mass produce them in China, then it's not a collectible. But this one is. I have a couple of things that actually are collectibles. Even if it's mass produced in China and it's special to you, that's fine. But what is the prize of your collection? It's probably a piece of one of the Disney Cruise Line ships that they, when they made it in Germany, they took pieces of the metal that they didn't use for the ship, and they had artists carve it into a Mickey head,

and then another artist paint on it. And it's a numbered piece, and I bought it on the Cruise Line. I thought you were going to tell me that you stole the steering wheel. Oh, that would be really cool. Have you been on one of those Disney cruises? Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're very, very clean.

Did you read John Ronson's collection of essays, Lost at Sea? No. Well, I think you should read it. Now that I've mentioned it, Disney will never sponsor this podcast. Just a little tease there for you. Okay. All right. I don't want to get into this, because next thing I'm going to start talking about,

Disneyland will go or already weigh a field. Julia, is your husband an embarrassment to you? Oh, gosh. No, he's wonderful, and he does lots of cleaning, and I'm very grateful for that. And I love having a clean house. I really do. Do you think he would prefer to not have anyone over?

I think that he has battling instincts within himself. I think that there's a part of him. I know that he loves people and he loves family. He's very family oriented and he loves our friends. oriented and he loves our friends but i know that there's a part of him that would like to just make his home a shrine to neatness and not have people disturb it neatness cleanliness and the imagineering of the disney corporation precisely is there any truth in what she says sean um yeah i would say there's a little bit but i've gotten so much better than i had than i was and i'm we have so many more people over here we just got a new house recently and we have we've had a lot more guests and i'm fine with people coming over

but the one thing that i'm not willing to let go on is the shoe thing because i just think there's so much and i have science to back me up that there's so much junk on the bottom of our shoes. Much like Bill Belichick, Sean has science on his side. Yes, I know. But if you make any exception, why not make every exception? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you let one person walk in, one old person or one person who can't touch his toes or whatever. Well, that's like saying if you don't wash your hands once, like you forget, then you should never wash your hands again.

Right. Or something like that. I mean, I'm willing to let some bacteria come in on the bottom of people's shoes, but I don't see why I need to let everyone's in. Okay, I think I've heard everything I need in order to make a decision, I am going to take my socks off and dip my feet in Amy's vegetarian chili and then walk into my chambers in order to make my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sean, I'd like to ask you about my personal situation, because I wonder, I realize that I haven't yet been invited to your home, but I wonder, were I to be,

when I am invited to your home, how you will, well, I got to get a look at those Disney collectibles. I wonder how you would handle this situation. So I suffer from migraine headaches. And one of the difficult to say whether it is a symptom or a cause of these migraine headaches is I have some issues with circulation in my extremities, which means that I often get cold feet and sometimes hands as well, but especially feet. but I often get cold feet and sometimes hands as well, but especially feet. My wife will confirm this for you if you'd like to know as we share a bed. And so I never take off my shoes unless I'm also wearing socks and slippers because my feet get cold and I actually end up getting a migraine. Now, if I came to your house and you actually end up getting a migraine. Now, if I came to your house and you said to me, please take off your shoes,

I probably wouldn't say, no, I'm going to keep my shoes on. I might say, if it's okay, I'd prefer to keep them on. Probably I would just do it because I'm not a jerk. How does your complicated set of rules apply to someone in a position like mine? Well, if I knew you, like after that first time, I would say, oh, you can leave your shoes on because I don't want you to get sick or anything like that. But, you know, that first time I would ask you not knowing, you know. Mm hmm. time, I would ask you not knowing, you know? Once I knew what you were dealing with, then I would be fine with you wearing your shoes or I'd tell you to bring some socks and slippers.

Julia, do you think there's a solution to this situation that would leave both of you comfortable given each of your distinctive neuroses? I hope so. I think maybe that if we can offer footwear to guests, maybe we can somehow put out a very visible basket of very comfortable footwear to set the example to hint at people but that can still honor my passive-aggressive tendencies by not explicitly saying to people you must put on this footwear sean how are you feeling about your chances i do not like my chances at all

because i think i've been painted as a madman like you just asked me. Using your own brush strokes. Julia, how are you feeling? I feel okay about my chances. I don't know. The judge has

described himself as someone very concerned with cleanliness who likes things to be neat and orderly. So I'm a little little nervous about that but i'm hoping that he's also passive aggressive like me so i'm hoping that he will order sean not to explicitly ask people to remove their shoes i think my chances are okay well we'll see what judge john h Hodgman says when he comes back in just a minute. of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're Made In, Made In. The Rohan duck,

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Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a sound to happen. Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that

can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real life situations and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having

a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman.

Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. I was just reading about foot smell, you guys. Feet are gross. Feet are gross. Feet are gross.

They are just, you know, the thing of it is, is that you sweat a lot in your feet, and you got socks all around your feet, and then shoes all around your feet, and that just becomes a nice, warm, humid bacteria sphere. Bacteriospherae. All these bacteria. You got your cornibacteria and your micrococcus.

They love this environment. They just multiply like crazy between your socks and your soles. And then they eat kinds of salts and minerals and they excrete isovaleric acid, which smells real bad. That's what happens. And, and, and I guess the whole point is that feet are disgusting, whether shod or not.

Yet, unless you're going to, unless you're going to be a hermit and, and wash your own feet in bleach three times a day. You're going to have to deal with other people's feet. And it's a question of how to do it. And it is a reasonable

thing to suggest that people take off their shoes in your house. This is not, despite Bailiff Jesse Thorne's attempts to shame you while I was in my chambers, this is not an uncommon thing in the broad panoply of human cultures. Pan? Take off your shoes when you go into someone's house.

Accepted. Given. I know Lisa Dierks, my friend from Boston when I was growing up. I had a very dear friend who was living with her for a long time. We were all good friends together. They are no longer together, but I'm still friends with both of them. Lisa, a little bit older, had her own apartment. And she was of half half german half asian descent grew up taking feet off not taking much you didn't take your feet off taking your shoes off and i remember walking

into her house one day and she said please take your shoes off and i was like are you joking me i am i am 19 years old. You don't want what you're about to get when I take these shoes off. I am wearing the same socks every day. And she said, please take your shoes off. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I did it. And it was profoundly uncomfortable for me.

This, by the way, is an excerpt from Judge Hodgman's memoir, I Was a Teenaged Monster. I was a teenage monster, just like everyone else. And it was profoundly uncomfortable for me because my socks smelled bad. And they probably looked bad. And I had long hair so there everything was wrong and when I left that day and I put those

shoes back on like I have got to get my act together and I was changed for good never wore dirty socks twice in a row again and visited that home many a time and became converted to the thing to the

fact that if you are going over to someone's house particularly if that person has a lot of carpeting you're treading all that garbage that you've walked through all day long into their home it's a little gross when you think about it it's a little gross when you think about it. It's a little gross when you think about it. Is it an immediate danger to your two-year-old child? Not really. A lot of children have been raised in homes where people wear shoes from the outside all the time. And indeed, sir, I would say that the truth is that exposure to a robust microbiome is good for children. This is their resistance to infection.

This is their immunity. And it gets bacteria into them that are not life-threatening, but that are important for their life. Because you may know that we are about 79% microorganisms and then 5% water and then some other human stuff and then a brain. I think that's how it breaks down. We have a lot of microorganisms living within us and they do a lot for our health. I'll have more on that next week.

So let's just throw your child out the window. Something I always like to say. And that is not a point of consideration. So what you are doing is not wrong, although it is culturally surprising to, I think, a lot of people from Massachusetts. It is anomalous to most Massachusettsian households, right? And the other thing about Asian households where this is common and accepted, right, is that those households will provide slippers to wear. And it is understood, right, that you're going to take off your shoes and you're going to put on some of this communal footwear.

But even like all this is gross. All this is different levels of gross, right? Because you got gross stuff on the bottom of the shod foot. You have gross stuff on the bottom of the unshod foot and smells and cultural embarrassment in the context of an Eastern Massachusetts home, right? And then you have the alternative of putting on some slipper that you don't know who was wearing that before. That's also gross. It's all gross. All levels of grossness.

And what you have to choose as a host, the decision that you have to make as a host is, whose sense of grossness is more important? Is it more important that I not be grossed out or that my guests not be grossed out? And I think you appreciate where I'm going with this, right? The law of hospitality is that it is more important that your guests not be grossed out. If you are going to have a guest at all, it is important to make them feel

comfortable, right? Because if you don't make them feel comfortable, you might as well be your mom or dad. If you're an adult and your parents have been living alone, either together or on their individual owns for a long time, their lives become less and less organized around making outsiders comfortable and more and more about them being comfortable. When you go, what happens? Are your parents living, Sean?

Yes. Do they make you feel comfortable or do they make themselves feel comfortable? Oh, they make me feel comfortable. But he does remove his shoes in their home. Yes. Do they remove their shoes in their home? Oh, yes.

Yeah. I don't want to tar all moms and dads with the same brush. You know what I'm saying? But you know what I'm talking about when you go over to someone's house and it's so clear. Yes, yes. That they don't want you to interfere with their routine. They don't want you to get anywhere near their breakable Disney figurines. They don't want you.

They want you to make every change in your life so that you can fit into their life without interrupting. How do you feel when you're in that situation? I wouldn't feel comfortable. No, you wouldn't feel comfortable. So if you're going to have a guest over at all, you want to't feel comfortable. No, you wouldn't feel comfortable. So if you're going to have a guest over at all, you want to make them comfortable. Now, this isn't to say you have to let all these uncle dirties run roughshod all over your floor. You know what I'm saying? Yes. And you already are, you know, sort of feeling it out and making the adjustments case by case of

like, when am I going to enforce my iron will? and when am i going to bend a little bit and let someone feel normal or whatever but i don't think that you have the right safeguards in place currently your sign saying the dirt stops here that's too too passive aggressive. Too passive. No one's wearing dirt shoes. I've seen that sign in the evidence and you can look at it on the line on the online website that we have. That thing, that just looks like a novelty item. You know what I mean?

You want visual cues? Then what you do is you have a row of neatly lined up outdoor shoes, your shoes waiting there, and you have a row of neatly lined up slippers of different sizes, right? And then what you do is you don't say, would you mind taking your shoes off? What you do is someone comes into your house. You say,

Hey, if you don't know, we take our shoes off in the house. And if you'd like to, that would be great. And there's some slippers here that you could wear instead. But if you don't feel like it, don't worry about it.

But I would only, that's very reasonable, but I would only ever say that to someone. Well, I was going to say only for someone coming for the second time, but I think you just need to man up and say it to them coming for the first time, engage their reactions. Um,

and I think you just need to be straightforward and clear and, and teach them as Lisa Dierks taught me to wear clean socks. But there was an important dynamic in that Lisa Dierks was teaching me because she was older than I am. And if someone is older than you, I wouldn't even What's your age? 35. Person's old and 35, don't't ask them don't say a thing they'll either get it or they won't respect your elders you're 36 and 37 and 38 year old elders i would say i would say

up to 40 and that person isn't your boss you can say it to a friend you know what i mean right but over for over 40 years old, you know, you're, you're, you're going to respect this when it happens to you, sir. Over 40 years old is the year when it's like, you can't tell me what to do.

And you're going to enjoy that freedom and you want to extend it to others. But up to 40, I think it's fair to say to your peers and colleagues and the younger people who come around, you can boss them around a little bit in a polite way. Over 40. Don't even ask sensitive people will pick up on what's going on. They're going to see that you're not wearing any shoes. What do you wear around the house? Socks or do you have slippers? Slippers. You have slippers. And Julia? Yeah, slippers or I wear

socks. Right. Yeah. They'll figure it out or they won't. You know, next time maybe they'll just do it, you know? So that's how it's going to be in your house from now on. What I'd really like to do is order you to buy a complete set of bowling shoes. And then when people come in, you just say, what size are you? Nine and a half. I have it right here. and then you spray the inside of the bowling shoes and you hand them over you probably have the spray from using it on your baby

and you know i don't know why i'm not brave enough to order you to buy all those bowling shoes but i think you might have to sell a few collectibles in order to get them. I think, Julia, you should get Sean some bowling shoes once a year for your anniversary. Different sizes. Start offering those to the guests. See how he feels about that. I can do that. But until then,

Sean, you, you have a, you have decided that people treading feces into your house is gross. I agree with you. It was reasonable. There, there are cultural,

uh, precursors and precedents to this, I should say. Uh, but, and you may ask people to take off their shoes if you provide them with an alternate foot covering that is not gross, not rubber, well, not Crocs.

Thank you. Forget it, bowling shoes. This is my final order provide bowling shoes for your guests if they are under 40 if they are over 40 don't ask them they may take off their shoes anyway

this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Julia, how are you feeling? I feel very good. I think Sean has been brought to a place where he understands that you can't ask people, at least people older than you, uh, to remove their shoes. You just have to let them do what they will do and, and deal with the cleanup afterwards.

And I think that it is a good idea for us to get some kind of slipper footwear. We'll do some shopping around. We'll find something that works for us. He said bowling shoes. Yeah. Bowling shoes, Julia.

That's what's going to work. He said bowling shoes. Yeah. Bowling shoes, Julia, that's what's going to work. And I would prefer the tacky brand that I dare not name over bowling shoes. You can, you can provide, you can offer a variety of footwear, right? Bowling shoes,

comfy slippers, Google Asianian uh house slippers right you'll find a bunch bowling shoes an array that your guests can choose from your guests who are under 40 can choose from okay and they also have the opportunity to do nothing they can just wear their socks you can actually buy uh nice japanese slippers online from muji oh yeah oh those are great you know what i'm you know we since disney bought this podcast all all corporate tie-ins are okay but muji is a store that you can go online and this is what i was trying to think of thank you jesse i got some of these slippers for my wife and they're wonderful and you can and they're washable too i think you could also just get some warm socks and offer them

to people and just wash them you know what i mean we'll have to look into that i'd recommend also as long as i'm recommending uh if you're looking for a nice pair of leather slippers, Draper of Glastonbury makes a really beautiful slipper. They're also, I believe, rebranded for Brooks Brothers, but I think they're more expensive if you buy them from Brooks Brothers. I've had a pair for many years that I wear all the time and has stood up to extensive wear exceptionally well, and they're really beautiful and comfortable. That does sound wonderful, Jesse. And you guys are going to have such i want to see your whole array i want to see a picture of your whole array there definitely have to be some bowling shoes some some some of the some leather slippers that jesse recommended you're going to make an investment now in making everyone happy some nice warm socks uh and uh and then some maybe some washable Japanese slippers from Muji or another

company like that. And make sure everyone gets some uts before they leave. Uts. They don't sponsor the website, but I just had some delicious uts crab chips the other day and I still like them. Also, you're dead to be

moxie. Guys, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many

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If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Hello, Jesse. Hi, Judge Hodgman. You may enter. Thank you. I guess I can't help but notice there's some shoes over here on my right and some slippers over here on my left. Are you doing sort of a, like a Mr. Cooper from Mad Men type thing in here? I've redecorated my chambers to be an exact replica of Burt Cooper's office

from Sterling Cooper Draper Pricey and things. And such. Yep. You know what, though? Honestly, Jesse, I could do a lot worse in my life than cultivate the dapper look and facial hair and wardrobe of Robert Morris playing Burt Cooper on Mad Men. Wouldn't you agree? Oh,

uh, Burt Cooper couldn't be more dashing. He's got those bow ties. He's got, he's got, he also has that, got that little, that little beard and I'm growing a little beard.

We both kind of look like the weekend accountant at the church of Satan together. You know what I mean? But he has a more elaborately folded pocket square, generally speaking. Yeah, I'm looking at a picture of that right now. You know what, though? I have things to aspire to. Now take off your shoes, Jesse, before you come in.

Yes, sir. Check out my samurai swords. Hey, can I mention something? Yeah. Hey, can I mention something? Yeah. So we're working on this Kickstarter campaign for the first ever MaxFun video show. And I thought there's probably some Judge John Hodgman listeners out there who haven't checked it out yet.

So I would like to urge them all to check it out. If you go to MaximumFun.org, there's a link on the right-hand side. You can watch the pilot. Is this the show where you throw food at people? Yes, it is. Brian and Lindsay, two handsome and charming employees of MaximumFun.org. I literally throw food at them. Actually, one of the Kickstarter rewards is that you get to come here and throw food at them during the taping. Wait, really?

Yeah. So, you know, I'm a donor to this Kickstarter. Thank you, John. I automatically check no reward for me, thank you, because I've been so well trained by public radio to disdain getting payment for my donation. Do you know what I mean? But now I'm mad. I want to throw some food at those kids. I'm going to have to go back in and donate some more money.

Where do I go? Well, just go to MaximumFun.org. There's a link in the right-hand side. Or you can, of course, go to Kickstarter.com and search for Brian and Lindsay will totally eat that. Check out the pilot at least. And look, the minimum donation is a dollar. So it would really mean a lot to us us even if you just kick in a buck um well that's that's the minimum donation yeah just just a buck oh oh i thought it was the

maximum donation well now i really am going to go back in but yeah there's lots there's tons of cool stuff there and we're actually the secret is out here on the judge john hodgman podcast we're trying to put together a second episode, cut together a second episode to put up there before the Kickstarter is over. But we've got all kind of cool stuff up there on the Kickstarter. So go there. And even if you just kick in a buck and, like, share it on Twitter, that makes a huge difference. It's the first time we've ever tried to produce video for MaxFun. And I don't know.

I'm really proud of the pilot. And, oh. I checked it out and it was wonderful. We're most of the way to making it to the first $10,000. When we get $10,000,

the people at Hover are going to give us a further $10,000. They're going to take us from a third of the way there to two-thirds of the way there. So our thanks to them and, like,

let's get it popping. Are you talking about a match? Oh, yeah. That's what they call a match. I thought public radio trained you. That's the music that WNYC plays when they got a matching rant going. Cool.

Sounds a lot like the People's Court theme, if I'm honest with you. Yeah. Well, maybe I'm not remembering correctly. Anyway, it gets me very excited. Our show is produced by Julia Smith, edited by Mark McConville. If you've got a case for our show, go to MaximumFun.org slash

JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. You can also hashtag your thoughts about the episodes on Twitter with hashtag JJHO. You can join our group on Facebook, the Maximum Fun group on Facebook, which is a lot of fun. You can join us on Reddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com and on our forum at forum.maximumfun.org. If none of those appeal to you, I don't take off your shoes, Grandpa.

There are a lot of ways to interact with Jesse and me and the show and Julia and Mark McConville and all your friends. A lot of ways to interact. But maybe even the best way to interact is get into a fight with someone. Yeah. A legit, authentic fight, not a made-up one. Right. Then describe your dispute in an electronic mail, either to me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org or go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho.

There's a simple form. Everything goes straight to me. I eyeball it. Julia and I figure it out. Jesse looks at it and we figure out who's going to be on the show, who we're going to do and dock it. And this is the best way for you to interact with us because this is what makes the show so much fun.

Me yelling at real people. Awesome. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Watch out for that bacteria, you guys.