Judge John Hodgman - Motion to Adorn

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

Is it ok to buy home decor for friends? Anna says that Brannon’s apartment is boring. She wants to help him create a decorative vision for his home. But, Brannon is content. He wants Anna to accept the way his home looks, and to stop buying knick knacks for him!We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/gts_84 for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court is happening NOW! Get your tickets at maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. This week, motion to adorn. Brannon brings the case against his friend, Anna. Anna says that Brannon's apartment is boring. She wants to help him create a decorative vision for his home. But Brannon is content. He wants Anna to accept the way his home looks and to stop buying knickknacks for him.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. I remember years ago, I got a set of Rhinox riders, and these are like hairy rhinoceri being ridden by ogres. And the Rhinoxes had very well sculpted butts. They were really fun to paint. Also, it's true, nipples on armor is always cool.

Bailiff, Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Brannon and Anna, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever? Yes. Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that if you're watching on YouTube,

you can see that his office has been decorated by Ken Plume, who sent him an Indian movie poster that he just put up on the wall and has had there ever since? Yes. Yes. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. I think I brought that one up again recently. Just to be clear, the movie poster, which has now become a treasured part of my office life that Ken Plume donated without asking to my wall, body. Now I love it.

And it is the only thing that Ken Plume has put into this office, aside from a copy of DuckTales, the art of DuckTales that he wrote, available wherever you can get your books now, and you should get it. The rest of this mishmash of knickknacks is mine. It's not Ken Plume, blame me.

Go look over on the YouTube, you can check out my brand new camera. Hi everybody. And look at this, when I bang my desk, the camera doesn't move because we made some adjustments. Anyway, Anna and Brannon, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your spheres. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? Why don't we start with Anna?

I have no idea. But you must guess. I must guess. You simply must. Dolly Parton. Dolly Parton? Dolly Parton and I'll stick with it. Which song? Jolene, I Will Always Love You, 9 to 5 or All of the Above.

I think it was from an obscure interview she did. It's not found online. It's recorded in newspaper clippings. And you just really scoured through. You know Judge Hodgman loves microfiche. I love microfiche and I love a montage in a movie of me scrolling through microfiche in a library. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, I used to love it. All right, Brandon, you've heard Anna's guess. What's yours? You know, it sounds kind of like the writing style of the Glenn Weldon book, The Caped Crusade, his book about the history of Batman. Glenn Weldon, friend of the show, and that's a wonderful book by him about the history of Batman. I love that book. It's true?

Not just Batman, but fan culture broadly. It really is a wonderful book. Yes, but speaking of fan culture, all guesses are wrong. Dang. You picked the wrong fandom. I really, really wish... that Dolly Parton had a Twitch stream... where she would paint Warhammer figurines

from time to time. That would be really exciting to me. That would be so good. But I did pick a Warhammer reference for reasons that should become clear over the course of this podcast episode. And it was not Dolly Parton that I was quoting, but the Warhammer painter extraordinaire and and the Flophouse cat himself, Stuart Wellington of the Flophouse cat himself, Stuart Wellington of the Flophouse,

on his Twitch stream. Now, we all know Stuart Wellington is the co-host of the Flophouse podcast here on Maximum Fun, along with our friends Dan McCoy and Elliot Cailin. Everyone take a listen if you haven't yet. But he is also an avid Warhammer player and Warhammer figurine assembler and painter, and from time to time, you will go on his Twitch stream and paint some some Rhinoxes or whatever, or some ogres or space junk or what have you. And it's a lot of fun. If you had, if you had, if you had guessed

correctly that this was Stuart Wellington, I would have said, well, which particular twitch stream was it was it twitch.tv slash videos slash two two seven nine one nine nine five eight seven from October 17 2024 and you probably wouldn't have been able to guess that but as it is we're gonna do the case anyway by the way, I should mention that Stewart has a wife who is a whole human being in her own right named Charlene They own a couple of wonderful bars together here in Brooklyn, and they are opening, and Charlene in particular, is opening an alternative fitness studio focused on movement, joy, and community called Jiggle, and they're raising money for this wonderful new fitness studio. And if you want to support that cause, which I think is wonderful, and learn more about it, go to bit.ly slash jiggle. Can you believe, Jesse, that the bit.ly was

available? Jiggle? I can't believe it. J-I-Double-G-L-E, all caps. All right. Anyway, go jiggle over there at bit.ly slash jiggle. Meanwhile, we're going to dispense some justice. Who seeks justice in this court of fake law? I suppose that's me. I brought the case here. And you're here because you want your friend Anna to stop buying you knickknacks for your home. You want a knick on knacks, correct? Correct, yes.

What's the problem? So basically what happened is when my last former roommate moved out, now I'm alone in this apartment and Anna is definitely the most prominent but certainly not the only person who insists that I decorate more and have a much more cohesive decorative vision for my house and has attempted to Enforce this by buying me things that she wants me to decorate with like that kind of things I mean we're gonna go into the details, but give me one example of a thing that Anna has bought without your request or permission. Um, a little bamboo plant was one little bamboo

plant. It's like medium height. Yeah. It's beautiful. Lovely. And that's to the space. And how did she get it in there without your permission? Did you sneak in Anna? She, no, she, she, she dropped off a bunch of things on my doorstep and said, your stuff is outside and left. Actually I left it in your garage. I opened your garage and I thought I left it in there. No, that might have been a separate item. No, you left my drill in the garage.

You left the stuff on the doorstep. That is true. There has been some amount of perhaps breaking and entering into these stuff in the apartment. There is some physical trespass as well as perhaps emotional trespass going on. Okay. Now, Anna, it says here that you and Brandon live in Colorado.

Yes. And that you've known each other for a long time. You're friends, but you started as frenemies in middle school, Anna. Can you explain? So I don't even say frenemies. I would say full enemies in the beginning. Oh, flenemies. Flenemies.

. And even better, middle school enemies. Flenemies, if you will. Middle school fl Flynnemies. Yes. Tell me more, what happened? I did not care for his energy. He brought a very chaotic energy to the classroom.

And in middle school, it's really important that you don't mess with the energy of the room. He really, he threw off the mojo of every room I was in. You fought with teachers? Yeah. All the time? What would you fight with teachers about in middle school, Brandon, do you remember?

So the problem was is that my mom taught at this middle school, so I knew a lot of them. And they had been to my house. They had been over to your house for dinner. They had been to my house and such. You had collateral on them. Yes, and so they had, you know, I am much more familiar with a lot of these people

and I would push back a lot because again, I was in middle school and I think, you know, it's fair to say that you can, you don't have to be 100% on it in middle school. No, but I mean, it's also not worth fighting about to some degree too Hey, you know, I guess you don't know that in middle school If you're bringing chaos energy wherever you go Yeah, exactly. And I think the big tipping point was for similar reasons My mom put all of my friends in not her class because she didn't want to have to deal with that

Right. So so what happened was and I think Anna was in this English class, this critical mass of everyone that I had known, and it kind of got a little bit out of hand. And Anna was stuck in there being like, I need you to not be disrupted. I basically lived in an environment where the class was taken over by the brand and friend group. And I was a victim. I was a citizen in a town that was overrun by intruders. And the king of my town could not teach.

And that really upset me. You are a prisoner of the Brandon gang. Yes. This is a truly convoluted metaphor that I am really enjoying. This town has a king, his job it is to teach. The free city state of Mr. Wilson's sixth grade English classroom.

And you took over, like, the resources. Yeah. The gum economy was in shambles. And that's so important in middle school. Had to stand in line for lip smackers. Yes. So, I mean, that was some time ago, you're in your 20s now,

how do two Flenemies become Flens? That's full friends, by the way. Was it the fried pickles at good times? It could have been that, no, because it was before, that was definitely. I think it had to be the Fred pickles at good times. I just sort of assumed it was the Fred pickles at good times.

Are you saying Fred picklesles or Fried Pickles? Fried Pickles. And there's a chain in Colorado, very good, if you're on Colorado Go, called Good Times. Okay. It is tough because if you tell people, I want to go to Good Times, they assume that you mean certain things by that. But it is... What is it? Like romantic or amorous things? Yeah.

Yes. But it is a real restaurant and not a code word. It is a real place. You know, if somebody said to me that they wanted to go to Good Times, you know what I would say, Judge Hatchman? I don't know. What?

Dino-mite. Dino-mite. Jimmy JJ Walker says, I don't know what dino might dino might Jimmy JJ Walker says dino might shout out to the elderly You want to get some fried pickles at good times and suddenly you were able to bury the adjunct that yeah I think I think it was that and then honestly, I think it was No, cuz we were friends a little bit in high school before this so it must have been that I have honestly no idea What the exact flip moment? Without due respect if you thought we were friends in high school that was just you know, like very close to the end

I feel like it was it was enough to invite you to my house, right? I We became friends because we went to the same college. And so we reconnected because most of my friends from high school had moved out, but I did know my enemy, my flenemy. So it was somewhere around that. Hang on, what change happened in Brannon? Because he still seems to be bringing

the same chaos energy. And King Hodgman is not able to teach right now. You are pretty similar. So maybe I just, I accepted change. In fact, it says here that at one point, this home that Brandon is currently not decorating properly according to you, was also your home, Anna? Were you a roommate there at one point as well? That is correct.

And that's also why I feel like I have somewhat of a claim to the house, because I did live there for a year. BLAIR How would you describe Brannon's terrible, terrible taste in home decor? ANNA KRAVETSKY I'm so glad you asked. BLAIR Me too. ANNA KRAVETSKY It's like if you walked into a hotel,

but then took out all the classic hotel decoration, and then replaced all the furniture in the hotel with furniture that people left outside their house for free. Uh-huh. That's also an accurate origin story for most of my furniture. You did collect it off the street. Yeah.

But primarily, you're concerned with wall decoration, and you sent in some evidence... Yes. ...of Branon's taste here. Well, who sent in this evidence? Branon, you sent in some evidence of Brannon's taste here. Well, who sent in this evidence? Brannon, you sent in this evidence. I had to presume that this was Anna who sent in the evidence

because it does not really favor your side. No, and that's fair. I sent it in because I lived there and I figured it was only fair to have the pictures. Well, the photos obviously will be available on our show page at MaximumFun.org, as well as on our Instagram account and other socials. Tell me what we're seeing here at Exhibit A, downstairs main room, south wall. There's a Warhammer poster here. That's why I did the Warhammer thing earlier. Yes.

So that's something you enjoy? Yeah, that is something I enjoy, and that's definitely something that we have... I have... I got Anna into, actually. We're both painting now. Which is why I'm embarrassed that I didn't catch the stream reference earlier, but there you have it. Yeah, we're both painting. We paint together sometimes. So yeah, there's a Warhammer poster. Painting Warhammer figurines. Yes, correct, yes.

Rhinox butts all the way Yeah, no those those figures have some good butts. I'll be the first to admit that Well, you're the second actually You know what that's on me that but yes, yeah, there's a there's a nice little poster there that I thought Was fun and this is a poster for a a war hammer Comic book or something. Yeah, a video game. I got it in the White Dwarf magazine that I'm subscribed to. All right.

You gotta say the name. Fair enough. And now, for those who can't see the image right this moment, there are some diagonal wooden planks. This is... Is this a wall or a floor? So I want to actually bring up Anna started this, this particular thing, Anna started, so we were living together in 2020. The particular thing being papers taped to the wall.

No frames. Right. Because what I wanted to say is the, the, the slatting on the wall is diagonal, which is strange. That's why, And also it does. Aside from this poster, it looks like you dumped a bunch of papers onto a floor. Yes. Like printouts and stuff. So what are we looking at here, Anna?

What did you start back in 2020? OK, so I was in school in college during Covid and I was I can't remember what class I was in. There was some sort of class I was in where we talked about the importance of a certain case where a company was trying to like boost the cost of like a what, HIV drug? A lot of drugs. A lot of drugs. And what's very interesting is that the court,

they could not find a jury for this case because everyone hated the defendant. And so- Martin Shkreli we're talking about. Yes. The entrepreneur who bought that drug company and then jacked up all the prices because he's a creep. Exactly.

And also famously bought that secret Wu-Tang Clan album. I tried to forget about that. And they mentioned that. They mentioned that in the transcripts. So you're following this case and you're looking at the transcripts and you're like, this would look great on the wall. It was during COVID.

I must say my brain wasn't all there. I accept that. I accept that. I don't know why you were putting up transcripts of the Martin Shkreli trial up on your wall. I'm a little confused as to why you're not connecting certain sentences with pieces of yarn as though it's some sort of conspiracy map

because this does scream isolated from society right now. Yeah, it's missing a few Polaroids and some string, but other than that, you're there. But you don't live there anymore, Anna. Brandon, you've chosen to keep this up. Yes. It's a tribute to your old room. I kept it up and expanded. Yes. So yes, the Martin Screli, which is the big on the right hand side with the highlighted sections. That's the Martian really jury selection thing right next to it. The sort of yellow red gold thing.

That is the funniest political ad I've ever received. And so it gets to go up on the wall because it's a comical exercise in bad judgment, in my opinion. What is contained on these pieces of paper clearly has personal interest to you. But what strikes me more than anything is that it looks like you just threw them up there

with tape on the back. Yeah, it appears to be a spill. Yes. Yeah, less of an arrangement than a vertical spill. Yes, and that's correct. Brandon, what do you put in these up-ways? Is it like scotch tape or painter's tape or command strips or what?

Command strips, yeah. I don't know why this is so important to me, but it's really important to me. Yes, it's command strips. I have an objection. Mostly command strips, some tape. Yeah, there are a few of those that are just put up with scotch tape.

Yes. Command strips would be a step up. Yeah, well that goes back to you, Anna. That's your fault. You know? You could have framed and mounted the Martin Shcarley transcripts personally, more artfully, you know,

but you chose to tape them up there, and he just followed your lead lead all the way down the hallway to exhibit B downstairs, main room, north wall. And what we're looking at here is two walls on either side of a hallway. There's a small table on that. There are a few items on the wall. We don't have to go through all of them.

Sure. Yeah. Unless there's something you really want to draw. There's a halo three poster you really want to draw. There's a Halo 3 poster, I want to say. It's taped up at something of a non-perfect angle. There's a very tiny little thing. There's a monitor. And on the table, in front of the monitor, is a book that is highlighted here.

What is the name of that book? That book is Kicking Techniques for Competition and Self-Defense by Roy Curbin, and this is my signed copy. Kicking Techniques, and we're talking about martial arts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Kicking Techniques for Competition and Self-Defense. And did you go to a signing at a dojo

to get the signed or what? Was this just signed at a kicking competition? This was actually signed at my fourth degree black belt promotion. Oh, wow. Congratulations. Thank you. It was at the, so the owners of the studio that I attended was there respectively seventh and eighth degree promotions. And so Grandmaster Curbin came down or came up I suppose from Texas to Colorado to promote them. What degree of black belt are you now?

This is my, this was very recent. I just got my fourth degree in August. Oh so you're at you're at fourth now. Yep. When will you be when will you kick it up if I may to fifth? The thing is I don't know if I ever will. Fifth is kind of a higher rank that's when at least in the system that we use that's when you get the master title and I don't know if I'll ever be at that point so that's that's something that. Don't you want to be known as master chaos? I mean so yes because that awesome. But I don't know I don't know if That's that that decision is not up to me That's up to the people who will decide if I'm worth worthy of it because you are

Seated right now and the wonderful Ponderosa studio in Fort Collins. Thank you Ponderosa And there's lots of expensive equipment and you have headphones on and everything else. I'm not gonna ask you to do this till the end, but at the end, will you please give a kicking demonstration for our video on? Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I'll do anything, yeah.

Don't let them leave Jennifer Marmer till he kicks. You don't have to ask Brandon twice to kick. No, no. That's his whole deal. I wish I'd worn different pants, but yeah. I'll do it. So this is sort of a coffee table book that has pride of place in your home.

And like all decorative books, you've put it as close to the edge of the circular table as possible to make it seem like it's gonna fall off at any moment. Yes, correct. Yes. Right, gotcha. Okay, good, correct. Yes. Right, gotcha. Okay, good, good.

Judge Hodgman, I feel like I need to take an opportunity to speak to what I'm seeing in these photographs and the feeling that it's engendering within me, which is that based on this and previous Judge John Hodgman cases, I have a profound concern that all Judge John Hodgman listeners have giant walls with tiny things on them. I'm not even sure that the walls are that giant. The things might be very small. The things are quite small, I will admit. As we go now to the west-facing wall, exhibit C, we are seeing exactly what Jesse is trying to describe.

A big expanse of wall, and then a bunch of small postcard size things and posters that again are not framed but sort of taped up haphazardly. You know, in the old days we would have used a blue tack. Remember that stuff? That little blue stuff that you put on there that makes your walls and your posters greasy. Yeah.

that you put on there that makes your walls and your posters greasy. Yeah, it's great stuff. You got some kind of like, some kind of ancient warrior and plate mail down here, and some maps of some fantasy lands, I presume. Tell me what we got. Okay, yeah, so lower right, that is actually the mascot of White Dwarf Magazine.

They got a thing out for their, I put it up because it was their 500th issue, and this is Grombrindal, the White Dwarf. The mascot of White Dwarf magazine. Yeah, yeah, of course. Sorry, I wasn't listening. What's this down here, Grombrindal? Grombrindal, of course.

Okay, just wanted to confirm it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grombrindal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm definitely mispronouncing that, and I'm gonna get some mail from some angry individuals, but yeah. Brennan, do you have anything framed in your whole apartment?

No, I find framing to be unnecessarily ostentatious. Yep. Okay. Just going to note that. Continue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, other than things people have purchased for me, but we'll get to that. So right above our best friend, Granvandal, is actually a piece that her sister made

that was in her first little art show in Tulsa. Her, you mean Anna's sister? Anna's sister, yes. Anna's sister, Naomi, at her first art show. Personal art, that's very nice. Yeah, and I wanted that, that was something I wanted commemorated. To the right of that,

we have a very useful flow chart in my personal life, which is a which Shakespeare play should you see flow chart that my mom got for me. Yeah, my mom has one in her house and in her English classroom. I think all middle school English teachers are issued one of these posters. Just as all middle school science teachers are issued one of those posters of Einstein that says imagination is more important than knowledge or whatever. And if they're not, they should be. Yeah, so right below that we have the fantasy map of the Silmarillion, which is my preferred

Tolkien work. And my main reason that I prefer the Silmarillion is the Elvish heroes do not have the support of God, and that makes their struggles more interesting to me. Whoa. I'm just gonna absorb that one. Explain the three postcards. Yeah, so the three postcards I actually got. And J.R.R. Tolkien cosmology,

what's the name of the god, the super god, Anu? Eru Ilufatar. Eru Ilufatar. Eru Ilva tar. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna get some letters, too I just figured we like we ought to both Yeah, okay. We love letters. We love the same There's some really and the elves were doing it on their own. There was no god Well, well, no, they were just actively acting against God's will and God's plan Okay, they were fourth degree black belt chaos agents as well, is what you're saying. That's what you felt.

So the next thing we have some little art cards from, and I am going to mangle this pronunciation so I apologize to French people, but artist Philippe Dreay, a couple of the Lone Sloan. This is some wild, yeah, this is like very 1960s French comic book stuff. Very intricate, very Baroque, not very demure. I like it. Okay, cool, I'm learning things, go on.

Is that what you based your Warhammer paint scheme on? Yes, yes, yes. Wow, it's coming together. So I did base some of my Warhammer paint schemes off of his coloring. So, all right. What? You used to live here, Anna. Yes.

What did it look like when you were in charge of the walls? So I will be honest, it looked kind of similar. OK. And I mean, you did put up the Martin Shkreli stuff to begin with. I did put up the Martin Shkreli stuff to begin with. I did put up the Martin Shkreli stuff. You set the tone. However, after I moved out, I experienced the joy of decorating. It changed my life. And I want Brandon to also experience that joy.

And it is probably physically painful for me to go back into that house and I go, I see what it could be and I've left this behind and you're still stuck there. What is he doing wrong to your mind? I mean, I've got my opinions, but what is your vision for this apartment? So I knew that I ran the risk of being biased because I want to be right here. So I put it up to a survey and I asked the collective people what we thought could happen. And I did get some responses back.

And I did ask, I said, if we could decorate Brandon's apartment and like fit his vibe, like what would, what would the look be? I noticed you're ducking out of giving your own opinion though Okay We're starting broad. We'll pull it. Okay. Okay. I'll get there. I see okay. So this is a good This is good. So you you you created a focus group of your friends. I did and And people who know you and who know Brandon and these people include Seems here Taryn Clarissa, and Jocelyn.

And three others not named. Yes, there are more people who responded. However, I forgot to ask for their names. So they just didn't say their name. That's fine. Do you know them? Do you know their names? Yes. Taryn, Clarissa, Eli, Jocelyn, Naomi. Naomi, Malcolm, Jocelyn, Naomi. Naomi Malcolm-Clair. Malcolm-Clair.

Okay, I did get Omi's friends who live in a different state but visited Brandon's apartment once, also give their opinions. They didn't- Well, you can't- we have to throw out those responses from someone. Yeah, they're not in the responses, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I mean, if you don't live in Colorado, you wouldn't understand the decorative motif known as Colorado mid-century bleak. So the first question in your survey is in one word,

how would you describe the atmosphere of Brandon's apartment? And would you read the responses, the seven responses in order, please? The first one is sad. Second one is nerd-chelor, and then in parentheses, bachelor nerd. Nerd-chelor, bachelor nerd.

College dormie, dry, minimal. Someone just said meh. Yeah. And then liminal, which I thought was crazy, because liminal is not a place you want to sit down and hang out. It is for me. Now, liminal, as we know from discussions of the liminal space subreddit that I frequent,

there's a lot of debate over what liminal, what is and is not liminal, but it means a transitional space where humans do not normally expect to spend time, but instead move through and get past. I mean, to be fair, this does have the look of a liminal space that sits between elementary school and middle school. God bless.

It looks like a waiting room in purgatory. I was also going to say purgatory. You're saying things that are really selling me on my own design choice. That's crazy that you would say that. I can't get worked up about this. Years ago when I was in college, I had, and indeed still have, this friend named Dan. And my friend Dan, he spent most of his sophomore my freshman year of college as my neighbor in the dorms. He was just in there playing guitar with his

headphones on next to a giant, like fabric flag of the Pink Floyd prism. You know what I mean? He was just having that classic lifestyle, right? I believe it was his junior year of college. He announced to us that the new Dan was here. Yeah. And the new Dan had a single dorm room, still lived in the dorm, so it had a single. Sure.

And out went all of the Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin memorabilia, even frankly, all of the pavement memorabilia, which was a new addition to his life. And it was replaced by tasteful lighting, not just the brutal overhead lights of the dorm and those kind of posters for French aperitifs that you might see in a Fort Collins cafe.

Oh God, you would. Like a Belle Epoque Campari painting. Exactly, and a few of Dan's original paintings, which are quite lovely. Dan started his painting career painting Warhammer figurines, which are quite lovely. Dan started his painting career painting Warhammer figurines, which I know because he had a little tiny single or like three hair brush for painting figurines

that he used to change my ID card so I could get into clubs. God bless Dan. And I'll tell you this about my friend, about my friend Dan, The new Dan worked. The new Dan, the new Dan was inviting to others, including those, and particularly those in whom he might have romantic interest,

in a way that the old Dan was not. And the new Dan had a more rewarding life, not just because of the interest of others in his aesthetics, but because he had invested in the aesthetics of his own life and lived now in a more beautiful and comfortable environment, even though he was doing it on a college student's budget shopping at the poster stand at the student union.

Well, that's a wonderful story, Jesse, but I honestly don't see what it has anything to do with Franan wanting to live on a bench in an airport hallway with a picture of an elf above him. Yeah, I want to be honest. You say that, you know, it sounds disparagingly. This is your talk and this is my ideal. Honestly, Anna, he enjoys it. What possible standing could you have to tell him to change the way he wants to live? I have what I've outlined as a three-part argument

for why he needs to change. I will hear all three parts. The first part I call the hostly duty. The hostly duty, because even though you live in your space, would you say that other people sometimes exist also in that space? Yeah. And would you say that you want to give them a good experience? Yeah.

This is why I want you to try it, because I think I can change your mind once you give it a good honest shot. I didn't try decorating until I lived with someone who did superdecorate, and when she took her stuff off the wall, I felt in my being different. There is a primal part of the back of your brain That is unlocked when you decorate because it it's like probably the same thing that like big cats feel when they like find A good cave you feel safe. You feel like this is your cave. I like book two. I like book two a lot What's book three? Okay, book three is and I I'm sorry to say this, but the incel factor.

The incel factor. The incel factor. My favorite Robert Ludlam novel. I want you to find success in your love life. That's a nicer way of putting that one, what you told me earlier. I want the best for you. Yes, I put it in different, perhaps more harsh words earlier before we were recording.

And you're suggesting that his love life might suffer because his home is decorated with taped up posters of fantasy dwarves. Yeah, this big beard guy makes me pretty horny. He's pretty hot. I gotta say, Gromding Ball or whatever his name is. Gromding ball or whatever his name is. I think if I were a girl and I was going to someone's place and I see a couch with no cushions, no throw blankets, um, things taped on the wall, the, the factor of the things that are taped on the wall are Warhammer, which as much as I love Warhammer, There's a connotation.

There's a connotation. Uh, and I don't think that a girl would see that and go, I would like more of this, please. No, Anna, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me, let me be a Grom Brindal's advocate here for a moment. Grom Brindal's advocate by the way is Rum Tum Tugger. Grumbrandahl's advocate, by the way, is Rum Tum Tugger. You and I agree that walking through this gallery of depressing pieces of paper stuck to the wall, I wouldn't want to hug and kiss Brannon.

No offense, Brannon. You seem cool. This wouldn't be for me, right? But don't you think that Brannon deserves to be with someone who shares his aesthetic? Who might be excited about the art of kicking or whatever? Kicking techniques for competition and self-defense? Excuse me, kicking techniques for competition and self-defense? I think no, because I know what kinds of...

You're saying there's no one out there for Brandon? Well, I'm saying the women that Brandon wants are the artsy girls. And the artsy girls definitely care about what's on the wall. Well, how does that make you feel? I mean, is what Anna is saying with you resonating with you at all? In a sense, yes. In the sense that I have heard this before from a previous long-term romantic partner who would agree very heartily with Anna. But, you

know, as I said to her at the time, is I have to have some barriers somewhere for being a freakazoid human being. Because, you know, I have to not be a deeply unsettling gremlin of a man for 90% of my life. And I would like to be able to acknowledge that part of my true self while I'm at home. You consider yourself to be a gremlin? A little bit, yeah.

I don't know, pretty hot. Gremlin seems maybe a little too complimentary, but it kind of works for what we are right now. Wait, let me understand your argument here. You have to pretend to be someone else outside in the world, and when you get home, you don't want to have to pretend anymore. Yes. And not pretending means living exactly the way that you've decorated this apartment. Yes, living in a poorly maintained airport terminal. Oh.

That's your... I mean, you brightened up. You brightened up when Anna's survey said liminal. You liked that. Yeah, yeah. I don't think Jocelyn knew that she was gonna get that response out of me, but yeah. Anna, what did you give to Brannon? There's a picture here of some... What Brannon calls, the term he uses here is

aggressively intentional decor yes, I think frames is like the easiest thing to check off the list like Try framing stuff. It'll change your life. And so I got him Some what I had intended to just be frames Just from the arc., it was like $2. Have you checked? The ARC is like a thrift store or something? Yes. Oh, a great thrift store.

It's an amazing thrift store. Incredible thrift store. I got him frames. I thought you could put some of the art that you already have and already cherish in the frames. I'm gonna be honest. I did not know that was the intention until just now. Okay, so that was explained.

I really appreciate this clarification too, Anna, because the photo is of three frames, two of which have identical photos in them, of something or another. It's a little hard to see. And I don't hate the photos. None of them is more faded than the other. Whatever's in the photos looks like a metaphor for death.

Yeah. Of some kind. And then the third photo is some Christmas trees and it says joy to the world. And I was like, this is Anna's idea of an upgrade. I might not be able to make a wooing today. But I will thank you in any case for submitting this photo because in case there is any concern about the walls of the apartment being extra depressing,

I now can see the full beige wall-to-wall carpeting upon which she trod every day. I love it. I'm sorry. I mean, it's so aggressively institutional feeling and like, and anonymous and like, you know, like bad therapist waiting room feel, it's really something.

I admire you for a lot of reasons, Anna, not least because you submitted two pie charts to the court, uh, representing findings from your survey. Uh, the first chart represents, uh, you asked your respondents if decorating factors into making guests feel comfortable. That is book one, the hostly duty. What percentage of people responded yes, decorating makes guests feel comfortable? A hundred percent.

One hundred percent. A perfect pie. Next you asked your friends if they feel comfortable in Brannon's apartment. What percentage answered? Yes 100% very interesting high very imperfect high of people said that they feel comfortable in Brannon's apartment. How do you explain this discrepancy? I will say in Anna's defense I'm 99% sure her sister abstained Because it's there's only six responses on that pie sheet. So six out of seven feel comfortable in this apartment.

How do you explain this? I deny the results. I think people got confused. And I think they got confused about the wording. And I think people thought I was asking, would you feel comfortable if it was decorated? You had time to clarify. I don't know.

You're saying that you bungled your leading questions. You're bad at push surveys. I don't like this unskewing the polls that you're trying to do. It just a hundred percent seems really high. Brannon, you told our producer Jennifer Marmer that creating the kind of coherent decorative vision that Anna is hoping for you would be a lie.

Yes. What do you mean by that? Why would making your apartment look less depressing be a lie? Because it wouldn't be... It feels like presenting a false front to me. Because I would never do that. Like, I would never do that without outside influence.

And also, you know, to your point of saying, like, would anyone look at this and be like, I want more of this? If the answer is no, I want that answer to be no, because then they know what they're getting into. I mean, let me ask you this question. If let's say, Anna or someone else were to say, hey, what if I were to take these posters and get them framed nicely for you?

You would say no. Yeah. Got it, interesting. Anna, if I were to rule in your favor, what would be one representative change that you would want me to order Brandon to do, to make? I would like Brandon to go, I think, into a thrift store so it's affordable, it's easy.

Find one thing that speaks to you, that you would decorate your house with, and like earnestly, not as a bit, actually care about it. Earnestly buy a thing and present it in your house. That could be a throw pillow. That could be like a blanket, but like you gotta mean it. Brannon, the argument has been made that you are missing the primal instinct of joy in your home.

Yes. Do you deserve joy? The breath is because I want to say no, but I feel like that's going to play poorly. Not that I deserve to be unhappy either. I appreciate your honesty. Yeah, yeah, the answer is no, I think. You seem like a joyful person in a way, but what I'm getting from this is that spareness of your lodging is a reflection of a certain despair that you feel in yourself.

And if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule? Except that I am also a very bleak person, and that means the decor, as is. And whatever random documents. I thought about adding the... This is a real story that Anna doesn't know because it happened entirely in my own head. But I thought about adding the agenda from my first ever Board of Adjustment meeting to the wall of documents, and then I felt that that was too much of a brag. So I decided not to and I recycled it.

I don't know what the Board of Adjusters are. It's a board, a quasi-judicial board adjudicating setback variances in unincorporated Larimer County land that I was appointed to in August. Congratulations. Thank you. This is a hobby of yours, a civic duty one. Yeah, no, I enjoy governance boards and I think more people should participate in them.

It's funny because I don't get the impression that you have your interests and you enjoy hanging them on the wall. Yes. Right? I mean, it's not as though you have completely bare walls. Right. Because any expression of interest or delight that you might hang on the wall would seem to be selfish or self-aggrandizing. You have stuff that you like on the wall. So what about the Board of Adjustment agenda letters seem to braggy to you?

It's a position of genuine power that I have and that feels like, again, I'm not Robert Moses-ing it all over and like crushing people's neighborhoods, but I do vote on whether or not certain building proposals can get approved and that felt different than just my own personal interest. I think this is the first time I've heard you refer to the wall of documents as this is the wall with the Martin Shkreli stuff on it. heard you refer to the wall of documents. This is the wall with the Martin Shkreli stuff on it?

Yes, yeah, the wall of documents. The wall of documents. Interesting. All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go stand in the doorway between the bathroom and the hallway and try to channel some real liminal energy and come back to you in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Brandon, how are you feeling about your chances?

I mean, you know, bleak. Just keep with the theme. I understand that this is not a very commonly held position. I do not expect that I will be allowed to make decisions that may be actively worse for me. How do you feel, Anna? I understand I have an uphill battle. I am basically telling someone what to do

with their own space in their own time, but my desire to be right outweighs my moral compass here. We'll see what Judge Hodgburn has to say when we come back in just a moment. Judge Hodgman, this episode is being released as we are preparing for our big show in Burlington, Vermont tonight. That's right. If you're listening to this, as this episode has come out on November 6th, first of all, I hope you're doing as okay as possible as we record this. I don't know what might have happened

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And we'll be up and down the West Coast of North America in the beginning of 2025. Tickets are on sale now for our shows in Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, and now we can finally announce Judge John Hodgman at San Francisco SketchFest Sunday, February 2nd at Marines Memorial Theater in San Francisco, one of our favorite places to play. Beautiful venue.

Always an absolute joy to be at San Francisco SketchFest. You never know, I'll tell you this, you never know at San Francisco SketchFest. You never know, I'll tell you this, you never know at San Francisco SketchFest when you will find yourself in a van talking to Teen Witch from the movie Teen Witch. Join us on Groundhog's Day, Marine Memorial Theater, San Francisco, February 2nd,

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Judge John Hodgman classic just in time for us to return to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Get your Judge John Hodgman gifts at maxfundstore.com. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So first of all, let me say what a pleasure it's been to get to know both of you. And I really have to lay down my first ruling very severely right up top, which is to say

that Brannon, you deserve to feel joy. I hate to say it. You're a very, you're a very, I think that Anna would agree with me in saying that you're a very special person, you're a very special high kicking gremlin. You obviously devote a lot of yourself to your friends and maintaining those friendships. You have full friendships, friendships as we say, and also that you devote yourself to civic enterprise, I think is very admirable.

And I think that despite what you're trying to convey, in fact, you do have an aesthetic. You know, I think that it's, I mean, I have never met Clarissa, but I will say that Clarissa is wrong when she says the apartment that he has so much color in his life, his apartment needs more of that. Everything in this apartment is chosen and curated to Brannon's strange point of view in life, shall we say. Yeah, I'll sign off on that. His interests are being reflected here, honestly. And you know, not only his interest in the more obscure footnotes to the Lord of the Rings cosmology, but as well art that he likes by people that he likes, including Anna, your sister, and so forth.

His devotion to martial arts is represented by this signed book. What is it? You have a good attitude, right? You have a good attitude. Great attitude is what was said to me. I think that what is missing and that what I'm responding to, and I'll say it plainly, negatively, right?

Is not that the work that's on the walls itself, but the seeming lack of intentionality. It is that impermanence that the scotch tape conveys, right? As well as the sort of slapdashery of the way stuff has been tacked to the wall, not even lined up with itself. Not to mention what Jesse has diagnosed in episodes before and now, that walls don't have to be covered with art, but at the same time, you don't want the art to emphasize the lack of other stuff on the wall, if you see what I mean. Like too small for big walls,

that kind of thing. It is, it speaks to what Anna identifies as a book two of the trilogy, which is the primal instinct. I do think that the way your space is arranged does whisper to your unconscious, you know. And you present as someone who seems very cheerful and you have a lot of joy in your life. And yet you keep talking about this lack of joy and the sense of despair, which to a degree we all struggle with it. And I hope that you're getting the support that you need. Right. But I mean, I think that when I asked you deserve joy,

it's always it feels very selfish to say yes. Do you know what I mean? I can understand why you backed off of that a little bit But I mean you do you do you do and if you're not feeling it I might suggest not necessarily adding to your decorative Vibe because you do have one. It's not a lie. It is absolutely true. When people look at those walls, they are seeing you and your interests and your point of view in life, right?

But if you were to look at it and to make, not add to it, but make some adjustments in display and then step back, I wonder if it isn't worth the experiment to see if maybe you feel a little bit differently wandering through your own space. It's a suggestion more than a ruling, right? I think that you deserve to have your own space. Anna has no standing.

Other than the standing of friendship, and I trust agreeing with me that you deserve to feel joy. Yes. And perhaps that's not what brought her to the courtroom is the fear that you don't feel that way. But there is an expression unconscious though it may be in I'll use the term again, because there's no better one slapped ashery of the decor that feels impermanent and liminal and depressing and so forth. And it makes your friends concerned for you perhaps that's what's going on here. I don't know. Maybe she just wants a throw pillow to sit on.

I don't know that a throw pillow is going to make you feel better. And I'm not sure exactly how much better you need to feel, but I would encourage you to explore book two a little bit in your mind and wonder if not perhaps. I mean, for me, it's like, just get rid of the empty cardboard boxes on the floor. That to me, I can't abide at me personally, but try taking it away and seeing if it feels a little bit better. I mean, there is an aesthetic that is spare. If you have and are attracted to the airport aesthetic of impermanence and security theater

and so forth, all I do is encourage you to explore that further, right? Rather than say, this is it. Because even if you take a moment and make some small adjustments, it might add to the feeling of intentionality, even to eyes that are not your own. But most important to you, you might feel more at home, even in your own home. Because the fact of the matter is you don't live in an airport terminal, you live in a home, in a community that you have made a commitment to by serving on this board of adjusters or whatever. I mean, and I can't rule in your favor you have no standing,

but I think that it's really important that you created this trilogy. But you should focus on the things that make you, to quote John Darniel, focus on the parts that make you feel good, and figure out what makes that work for you, and double in and double down on that and give it the intentionality so that your friends will walk through the place and go, I don't know what he gets out of this,

but he's going for something here as opposed to, is this Brandon okay? So that's my recommendation. It's not a ruling. I do rule in your favor, Brandon. This is a sound of a gavel. Let this be a wake up call about the way you present yourself to the world. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Anna, how are you feeling about this judgment? I can, I can grit my teeth and accept it. Brandon, this is your house. How do you feel?

Yeah. I mean, look, I'll try. We'll see if the bleakness is external or internal. I mean, I understand why you could try. It's hard to get rid of empty cardboard boxes sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if they're not actually empty. What if I need them for something? Well, we appreciate both of you coming on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We'll have swift justice in just a moment. First, our thanks to Redditor gts underscore 84 for naming this week's episode, Motion to Adorn. You can join the conversation over at the Maximum Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com, which is where we ask for title suggestions. So keep an eye out for those.

Our thanks also to Redditor TheSaltzerEffect, who named our episode Reader's Divest, and accidentally we credited it to Balton Nerdist. And guess who brought it up on the Maximum Fund subreddit? Yes, that's right. baltanerdist. Baltanerdist would not stand for any stolen title valor. Nope. Baltanerdist, all class. Thank you to both of them. Thank you to all of the Redditors who suggest titles. It's so much fun over there to read all

your suggestions. They're all terrific. Evidence and photos from the show are on maximumfun.org and on our Instagram, JudgeJohnHodgman. We're on TikTok and YouTube at JudgeJohnHodgmanPod, where you can watch video of this episode, including those beautiful karate kicks. Yeah, that's terrific. And John and I are both on Instagram, at jessethorneveryfamous and at John Honjman.

Follow and subscribe in all of those places. Yeah, and thank you to Dicerbo3 over there on Apple Podcast for the wonderful five-star rating and the rave review. Dicerbo3 said, I will not stop evangelizing. This podcast is the best at comedy, friendship, building a supportive community, being kind. I've been listening for 11 years.

I don't think a single episode has been missed and why would I? It is a regular and reliable brightness for me in every week. Thank you very much, Dicerbo3. That means a lot and evangelize is a strong word, but I will say that if you do go over there and you're listening on Apple Podcast or on Pocket Cast, you can go over and leave a nice review and five stars,

and that means that you'll get to go to heaven. That's right. King Hodgman gives you eternal life in the afterlife. Well, not truly, but you will truly help people find the show. And you can also leave comments now on Spotify or on our YouTube page at youtube.com slash at Judge John Hodgman Podd. And if you go over to the YouTube page, you can find out right now how I feel about smash burgers. Wow. Now that's what they call a tease.

That's what they call content. Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Matthew McGinley at Ponderosa Studio in Fort Collins, Colorado. Our social media manager is Natti Lopez. The podcast is edited by AJ McKeon. Our video producer is Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment, an anonymous person has asked, my husband says that coyotes are about the size of a German shepherd. I think they're closer to the size of a red fox. What? Please tell my husband he's wrong and coyotes are not that big. Now, I don't live in Los Angeles, but I have seen some coyotes in my life. You've seen some coyotes out there, right, Jesse, in Los Angeles?

I live in Los Angeles. I see coyotes. I wouldn't say all the time, but certainly regularly. They're certainly not as big as a German Shepherd, but nor is they as small as a red fox, wouldn't you say? I don't know what size a red fox is. I would say that- Oh, yeah, they're little.

I'm not quite full Glowrilla on this one. I don't know if you've seen the video of, are you familiar with the Memphis full Glowrilla on this one. I don't know if you've seen the video of, are you familiar with the Memphis rapper Glowrilla? Absolutely not. Okay, well, you got a lot of fun ahead of you because she totally rules. She's totally, absolutely my hero. Thank you for the recommendation.

But Glowrilla went on a British radio program maybe a year ago and in talking to the host there, it was revealed that Glowrilla was not sure that foxes were a real animal. That she thought maybe they were like a mythical beast, like a unicorn or something that only came up in stories. Yeah.

But I'm not quite there. Like I'm no foxes are real. I don't know exactly how big they are. In my imagination, they're definitely smaller than coyotes, which can get pretty big. Although I would guess by weight, they're still maybe half the size of a German Shepherd. Yeah, they're not as big as a German Shepherd.

They're not as small as a red fox. They're right in the middle, and that's fine. You know what they are? Coyote-sized. Yeah, they're big enough to scare me. Like a red fox, I don't think, is big enough to scare me. A German Shepherd is definitely big enough to scare me. I mean, I love German Shepherds.

They don't scare me. Of course. No, no, no. I would be scared if I saw a coyote, for sure. Sometimes you see one of these coyotes, and you're like, ooh, that's a big boy. He could really get at me. Yeah.

Well, anyway, I want to hear more animal disputes. We're still in the process of looking for any dogs that are actually weirder than cats over there in the Membo mailbag. But what are more disputes that you might have about animals? Do you want to adopt a cat that comes to your house every day, even though you know that your neighbor already owns it? Because you'll be a better, a better a better fur parent to that cat does your partner or significant other love to give the dog Arby's big beef and

cheddar dog farts be damned does your birding group also look for lizards but you want to keep your eye on the birds submit your animal cases at maximum fun org slash JJ a Joe I mean birds are just former dinosaurs so why not look for lizards I don't know we are course, also eager to hear your disputes on any subject at maximumfun.org, slash, JJHO. No case is too big or too small. We judges them all.

And, hey, I just want to emphasize, you, person with headphones in your ears, who's listened all the way through the credits of this episode of Judge John Hodgman, we are talking to you right now. We actually do want you to submit disputes at maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. Don't leave it to be the responsibility of others.

We need your disputes to keep the wheels of this show turning. So please go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. The absolute worst thing that can happen is that it's not perfect for the show. But I think the odds are wonderful that you might end up being featured on your favorite podcast.

So go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO and submit your disputes there, because it's a ton of fun to come on the show, a ton of fun to come on the show, a ton of fun to have the judge decide your disputes. And it's fun, honestly, just thinking about your dispute when you're typing it into that form. So maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. We'll talk to you next time

on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. ["Making a Change"] Maximum fun. A worker-owned network. Of artist-owned shows. Supported. Directly. By you.