Judge John Hodgman - My Dinner with Ennui

Episode Date: June 6, 2012

Holly and Todd are writing partners who meet at the same restaurants every week. Holly feels their habitual meals are stifling her creativity; Todd thinks it frees up his mind to focus on other things. Who is right?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, my dinner with ennui. Holly brings the case against her writing partner, Todd. They live in Los Angeles and meet at restaurants to work together on projects at least once a week. Todd prefers to eat at a few agreed-upon, time-tested restaurants to eat one of his dishes of choice. He says that eating the same meals helps keep his mind free to focus on work. Holly feels her creative spirit is stifled by eating at the same places week in and week out.

Should Todd's habits or Holly's spontaneity rule? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Oh, that boy is a J-U-D-G-E judge. See, you can guess what I am now. Shut your pie hole! I'm a bailiff. Get it? Swear him in, Jesse.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that since 2007, he has dined only on pure energy? I do. I do. Very well.

Judge Hodgman? Very well. Judge Hodgman? Okay, now, since these people are both writers in Los Angeles, which I think means they write screenplays, because what else are you going to write in restaurants? Not anything serious, that's for sure. I am not going to offer a summary judgment based on identifying the piece of culture that I referenced as I came into the courtroom, because I'm sure you will both get it right. Holly? Gosh, I feel lacking and I'm embarrassed and shamed of myself. Okay, moving on. Then Todd? Which reference? Yes. What was the piece of culture that I was referencing? The J-U-D-G-E judge. Shut your piehole. I'm at a loss. Yes. Then I do offer a summary judgment to whoever can guess it, which is neither of you. Boy, I didn't think it was that obscure.

You guys are screenwriters, is that correct? Yes. Yes. It was from Animal House. Oh. It was a dialogue between John Belushi and the sorority sister, just before he yells out, food fight, which is indeed what we are talking about right now. Just the other day, I was thinking that fat, dumb, and stupid is no way to make your way through life. You can't get your summary judgment retroactively, sir.

Okay, sorry. Fat, dumb, and retroactive is no way to win a court. I did not mean to suggest you are either fat or dumb. Holly, you bring the complaint. What is the problem? Here's the problem, Your Honor. Todd and I, not even just once a week, as Bailiff Jesse said in his excellent summary at the beginning of this case. Thank you.

Flattery will get you everywhere. You're very handsome. I'd say two to three times a week we meet in restaurants to get work to get work done Todd is a family man he has a wife and two small children who are all adorable and I have a roommate running in and out of my place so to be able to focus we often go to restaurants I love living in a big city and the reason let me just clarify for a moment do i guess correctly that you are writers of screenplays and or teleplays yes you do guess that correctly although uh todd has also written plays and uh and prose well i should say i should say to clarify flattering flattering todd will get you nowhere nowhere believe me and todd todd let's keep the uh let's keep the uh the little uh comments to a minimum, please.

I'm trying to hear from Holly right now. Okay. He's so snarky. Well, so just to clarify on our relationship, because it bears on our personalities and it bears on the conflict. Wait a minute. Did you just say I was snarky? No, Todd. You, Your Honor, are never snarky.

All right. I'm going to put a ban on flattery of all bailiffs, judges, Todd's and Todd's children at this point, because your command cross is extremely insincere. I'd like you to stick precisely to the facts of the case and use no further adjectives that flatter anybody. I will be incredibly succinct and accurate in my speeches. What kind of screenplays do you write? Todd is the real writer. I'm more like his, I'm his producing partner and I'm like

his private development girl. I'm a TV producer and a film producer and I also work in development. I have a million ideas a second and that's why I'm valuable to Todd. Todd is a real writer in that he sits alone in a dark room late at night staring at an incandescent screen and sort of limiting and limited person with almost no palate, will eat only – will agree to eat only in the same four restaurants 100 percent of the time. And those restaurants are, without buzz marketing – Well, I know I was going to say. A basic description would be? There's a sushi place in Santa Monica, a diner in Santa Monica, a deli in West Hollywood, and a Mexican restaurant in West Hollywood. And are any of these chain restaurants? Small chains.

Like I know the Santa Monica location of the diner, there's also one other. Okay, but we're not talking about a big chain. No. Yeah. Correct. We're not talking about a Canadian house of pizza and garbage. No. I mean, I would love to try that sometime because I like to try new things.

Yes. They're not Aladdin in America yet, but we're working on it. So you love to try new things and Todd doesn't. Correct. You have tired of these places. I've tired of these places. Furthermore, I've always had, I used to have a very limited palate myself. Like growing up, I would only eat things that were brown basically and or fried. And in the last like 10 years, I've really started, I'm sorry. There's no problem with that, but go on.

I've started to try to open up my palate and really, and I used to be food phobic. I used to be scared of all fruits and vegetables, like literally frightened of them. And so I've been pushing myself as a matter of self-improvement to try to eat new things and try different things. And I find that that feeds my creativity as well and makes me a better and more valuable writing partner to Todd and therefore to Todd's family. So you only used to eat fried foods and you hated vegetables. Did you grow up in the Midwest? You know, I grew up in Buffalo. The Midwest of New York. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say it's not dissimilar in tone, but. Okay, very good. So you grew up eating chicken wings. I grew up eating, I would eat chicken wings, but I was scared I wouldn't put cheese on them because I was like weirded out by blue cheese

I would eat pizza but I would take all of the cheese and stuff off the pizza and just eat the crust right and now you take pizza and you you keep the cheese on it and you slather it with blue cheese slather with blue cheese. Slather it with blue cheese. I'll put whatever on there now because I like trying new and different things. So Todd, why don't you want to go to Holly's favorite blue cheese pizza restaurant? Holly has, her favorite food is boiled dough. Is that so? You're talking about dumplings?

Exactly. I like Asian food and Todd doesn't because there's too often a noodle component or a dumpling component, and he's watching his churlish figure. Dumb, fat, and gluten-phobic is no way to go through life. Do you have a gluten problem? I have a gluten problem. I have a gluten problem. I have a cholesterol problem. I'm trying to avoid carbohydrates. And whenever Holly and I get together, she's like, let's go eat some boiled dough. You know, those places don't have a nice healthy salad.

And that's one of the problems I have. So she wants to go to more Asian places. Is that right? When you say dumplings? Is that what you're talking about? Or are you talking about like – Noodles. Noodles.

Noodles and dumplings, yes. Noodles and dumplings house in Santa Monica? I mean, yeah. Which one? But that's wonderful about Los Angeles. It has such an amazing Asian food culture here. There's so much to eat and try. I would imagine that if someone were trying to avoid gluten and even

carbohydrates in general, that Asian food, generally speaking, has a lot of options for you that, say, the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage does not. Correct. Todd? Yes, I'm a big fan of Asian food. I eat sushi all the time.

I don't have a of Asian food. I eat sushi all the time. Okay. I don't have a problem with sushi. All right. The real problem here is that I am there to work. Right. And Holly is there to go crazy and have fun. And she's a will-of-the-wisp. She's a dilettante. She casts a broad net.

And she – and that's all fine with me, but she insists on imposing that on me and saying that there is something wrong with me for just wanting to – you know, I have my dishes that I eat. What are the dishes that you eat? I eat a Caesar salad with chicken on it. I eat a rainbow roll at sushi places. Okay. I eat... Diet Coke. I have Diet Coke.

And when we go to the Mexican place, I have chicken enchiladas with rice and beans. Okay. All very high carb, except for the chicken Caesar. Chicken enchiladas with rice and beans is pretty high carb. I'm just saying. I'm giving you a bunch of different stories here. But your point is you want to work. I feel about food the same way I feel about my clothes.

I bought a bunch of stuff that all matches, and so I don't have to think about it. Holly, you know Albert Einstein, he wore all the same clothes every day. And no socks. He had identical pairs of pants. And you know what else he did? He stuffed the pockets with rainbow rolls. Every day. It was part of his process. Don't you think this might just be part of Todd's process? It was part of his process.

Don't you think this might just be part of Todd's process? It's part of my process. It certainly is part of his process. That I'm not, and it's really his business if he wants to eat the same things. It's just like, whereas he feels imposed upon by me, I feel imposed upon by him. How so?

Because I can, if I want, press him into going to a restaurant other than those four restaurants because I'm so sick of the menus there that I can't stand the thought of eating there another time. But if I do make him go somewhere else, then it's just going to be miserable. We're going to get nothing done. He's going to find everything disgusting on the menu. He's going to be unhappy. And it's like it's a nightmare. So I end up going all the time, 100% of the time to these four restaurants. Have you tried?

Okay. Have you tried getting him to go to a different restaurant? Yes. Okay. That's fine. Yes. Have you succeeded? Yes.

Okay. Please do your impression of Todd when you say, when you suggest another restaurant. I want to hear what it sounds like. Hey Todd, it's me. You're, you're not exactly writing partner. You're dilettante-ish. Producing partner? Yeah, thanks. You're dilettante-ish, million ideas a minute, foodie pal. And I would like to go to have something different today. I would like to go to, where would you like to go, Ollie? I want to go to this new Korean place I've heard about. Okay. I want to go to this new Korean place I've heard about. What do you say, Todd? Fine. Fine. No, no, that's fine. Whatever you want. That's no, it's great. Fine. I'll just eat boiled dough. No, it's great. Just get nothing done. There's going to be, I don't know where to park. Fine.

And did you go to the Korean place? Because it's like I don't want to be with somebody who's going to be – when he turns into a little storm cloud, it's very difficult to maintain my equanimity around him. So passive aggression meets passive surrender. Yeah, exactly. Right. It's just a big mess. Yeah. Todd, was that a pretty accurate description of your reaction to the Korean place? Do you have a problem with bibimbap, sir?

The problem really here is that my writing partner is a liar. Oh, my. I'll have order. I'll have order. Go on. She forces me to go to places all the time. Oh. And I acquiesce because she is a very willful person. Oh, jeez.

And more to the point, I am an introvert and she is an extrovert. Here we go. And the problem with extroverts. I will have, excuse me, Holly. Yes, your honor. Is that a pledge pin on your uniform? Be quiet. Go on.

I'm an introvert. She's an extrovert. And the problem with extroverts is that they all think that there is something wrong with being introverted. And so Holly is constantly acting toward me. Wait a minute. Describe introversion. An introvert needs to be able to think, needs to be able to process, and an extrovert needs to run around like crazy with her hands waving around in the air, screaming about a hundred different things all the time.

That's funny. I was actually just following along in Merriam-Webster. That's exactly the definition. That's amazing. You must have the same edition that I do. I've memorized it. You, if I may, put words in your mouth, which I may. You don't want extra stimulus of interesting foods

and decisions about going to different restaurants. You just want to sit and focus. What is it that you guys do in these restaurants? You say you do most of your writing at home, the real writing, the hard stuff. The stuff where you're at home in the middle of the night just shoving noodles and boiled dough into your mouth. Such that by morning you're so angry at yourself that when the time comes to meet Holly, you have to punish yourself and her for the decisions you made at 2 a.m. in the morning. Just look, I'm a writer. I'm a writer.

So I know how it goes. OK, that's uncannily accurate. Yeah, actually. OK, so once you actually go to have your your chicken Caesar and your Einstein pants get together session with Holly, what goes on? What do you guys what do you guys do? You have pieces of paper in front of you where you're mapping out ideas? You're just chatting? What's going on? We map out ideas. We hash things out. It'll be like we have a pitch coming up and we have

this idea that's in a sorry state of development and I'll say to Holly, we need to do this, this, and this. What's a good thing to happen here at the end of Act 1? And I'll say to Holly, we need to do this, this, and this. What's a good thing to happen here at the end of Act One? And she'll say, well, it could be that a tree grows out of his head, or it could be that a big rock falls out of the sky, or it could be that suddenly the giant becomes radioactive and turns into a spider. Is your writing partner, Holly, schizophrenic or delusional? Because that sounds like a crazy script. Schizophrenia, I think, is pushing it. She's often delusional? Mm-hmm. Because that sounds like a crazy script. Mm-hmm. Schizophrenia, I think, is pushing it.

She's often delusional. Oh, my goodness. I will have order. We're taking a moment just to beat up on you, Holly. You'll get your turn. Okay, thank you, Your Honor. I know that you probably do not want to and may not be able to describe to me the television idea in which a guy might have a tree grow out of his head at any moment.

Those were just examples. Were they actual examples or were they hyperbolic examples? They were hyperbolic examples. But that is what Holly excels at. Because hyperbole, I'll have you know, sir, hyperbole is something I hate more than anything else in the world. Indeed, the universe. I believe you. You can't tell me an example of a story that you're working on by any chance.

Is it all animals versus all humans? No. Like, for instance, we had a project about uh greek mythological figures okay and uh and i would say well okay who we've got a main character and then you can have a tree grow out of someone's head you can have a god grow out of a dude's head yeah that's right yeah okay you can have a you can have a god turn into a swan in order to go have sex with a lady. That sounds like a great new show on The CW. So you're brainstorming ideas, you're jotting down ideas, you're moving forward.

That's right. Okay. Holly, is that an accurate representation of the development process of Sexy Swan, a new show on HBO? Well, I wouldn't go so far as to buzz market that show, but it is an accurate description of our creative process. Yes. Right. It's about a bunch of sexy gods living in, we can't do Louisiana, let's say San Antonio. No, let's say Galveston. No, let's say Oxford, Mississippi. That's good. Yeah, that's better. I like Oxford. Yeah. Let's do that. And they're constantly fighting with each other and turning into sexy swans and working out old Greek myth rivalries while the rest of the populace of Oxford, Mississippi reads books and gets drunk. I'm writing this down.

We could go into our agents with that and take it to networks tomorrow. Yeah, you see, it's not so hard. And I was eating all kinds of food when I was talking about that stuff. Holly, can you make an argument about why a greater variety of foods in your working life

will help your working process? Because Todd makes a pretty decent argument for why it will, what's the opposite of help? Hinder. Yeah, hinder. Sorry. Sorry, Merriam-Webster. Got it. I'm not sitting here with a dictionary in front of me. I certainly can make an argument. You know, because what we just did. When are you going to do that? I would do it really soon, like within the next few seconds I might start, if that's okay. Okay, hang on. Okay. And go.

Okay. Todd, as he pointed out recently, and as you, Your Honor, also honed in on, does most of his actual writing, you know, in solitude at four in the morning, shoving shameful snacks down his face. That is his real working time. That is his job. That is his, you know, part of our partnership. My part of the partnership is, is to be alive in these brainstorming sessions that we frequently have. It's my job for, you know, to sit down with him over some sort of meal and for him to say, I'm stuck in all these places or I, you know, what should happen here? And for me to go and come up with like a million zillion things of which he can then, you know, from which he can then choose and, you know, narrow down what he likes and what he doesn't like. So so because I am an extrovert, to go with, uh, with, with Todd's argument,

the definition is a person running around with their hands about their head screaming. Okay. Flapping my hands. Yeah. And, and running is saying all kinds of stuff, uh, because I am that kind of person, I require more stimulation in order to be creative. Um, but therefore, because when we meet at restaurants and do these brainstorming sessions, this is where I need to shine, in addition to when we're in a room and Todd wants to sit being sulky and I want to spitball ideas with the execs.

This is the other place going to dinner where I need to be really on. And so it would behoove Todd to let me have the variety that I crave so that I am more creative so that he gets more out of me so that the ideas he then goes back to his solitary computer with are better. going around with an owl on her shoulder. She just has a bowl of this delicious kimchi that we're enjoying here at this Korean restaurant that we never would have gone to if you wanted to have another chicken Caesar salad.

Well, or the spiciness of the food, you know, activates some sort of brain chemical, which then, you know, makes me think of, I don't know, X, Y, and Z. Who knows how the actual, you know, body chemistry works of brain chemistry works in terms of being creative. I mean, someone does. I do not. What you're saying is you don't feel sufficiently stimulated creatively going over and over again to the Santa Monica Chicken Caesar hut. Correct. It makes me want to kill myself. What do you think about that, Todd?

I'm willing to accept Holly's suicidal impulses in order to get work done. How would introducing a scallion pancake or a Korean barbecue into this situation stop you from getting the work done? Todd? Because I have no interest in eating those things, and if I'm taking a strange restaurant where I have to spend half the time wondering if the food is going to slither off the plate or launch itself at my face, I get very uncomfortable. I don't know why I need to subject myself to this.

Just because it's Korean food doesn't mean that it's the movie Old Boy, okay? No one's going to make you eat a live octopus. And yet it happens. If you're willing to eat sushi, I'm going to say that you probably will find a lot of, a lot of complimentary foods in a, in a, in a Korean restaurant. The other, the other thing of course, is that Holly being a dilettante and a flash in the pan is that. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute, Webster. These words, you are supposed to be a wordsmith. No, I are supposed to be a wordsmith, no? I'm supposed to be. I don't think you're choosing your words very carefully because dilettante means nothing like flash in the pan. Do you seriously suggest that she just dabbles in a few things, a wide variety of things and never masters any of them as a dilettante does and does it for no money?

Is she a flash in the pan? Like she is a big success one day, but then she goes away after a brief period of high success and is never heard from again? Is that what she is? I misspoke. She's a will-o'-the-wisp. Oh, she's a mythological Irish creature.

Mm-hmm. She's impulsive and mercurial. Okay. All right. And I am deliberate and what's the opposite of? Pushy. Pushy.

So I'm not pushy. Holly's very pushy. Okay. And she makes horse noises. So you're pushbacky. I'm defiant. All right. Let me ask you.

I can tell. Holly, how much time do you spend in these restaurants per session? I'd say at the very minimum an hour and often over two hours. All right. So two hours, really, is that the maximum? Yeah, we don't tend to sit in a restaurant for longer than two hours, although we definitely frequently push two hours. Todd, how much do you tip at these restaurants?

I tip 20%, although I'm very bad at math, so Holly takes care of that aspect. Now, who pays? I do. You pay for the whole meal every time? Yes. And why is that? Because I'm in a higher income bracket, and Holly, although an excellent producer, you know, it's a peripatetic life we have. Sure, it's flash in the pan dilettante. So because I have the higher income and – Is she your employee? She's not.

She's not my employee. I do not pay her. She is my partner and we share in our income. So if we get a job, I get some of the money, she gets some of the money. And Holly, you never pay for these meals? I offer. But no, Todd enjoys feeling magnanimous as well. And I'm happy to let him feel magnanimous. Because, yeah, no, my day job is as a producer of reality television.

And that pays significantly less than someone who's being paid to do, you know, production rewrites and on major studio films. Do you produce or have anything to do with House Hunters International? I know people who work on it, although I myself do not work on that excellent program. I love that show. Even when you forced Todd to go to one of your crazy Korean restaurants, your crazy exotic Korean restaurants where things might slither off the plate, you let him pay? Even when you browbeat him into that change? Yeah, I guess we established that early on. I mean, I have paid. I mean, the number of restaurants we've eaten, the number of incidences, I certainly have paid for myself, and I have treated him occasionally. But he's right in suggesting that he pays, I'd say, at least 90% of the time.

Let me just give you – before I go into my chambers, let me just give you some advice. You never want to be in a position in life where you're saying defensively, I have paid for things sometimes. Yeah. I would say that Holly has paid a number of times, if you accept the fact that zero is a number. Well, look, I know neither of you are here to make friends. So I am going to go into my chambers and figure out how I'm going to make you enemies of each other, while also maintaining your obviously contentious friendship. So here I go. I'm going to go snack on some crazy food like boiled rice.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Holly, have you been reading Jonathan Gold restaurant reviews? Is that what's going on here? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Isn't he also an NPR correspondent? I think I hear I've heard him. Well, he's a regular on KCRW here in Los Angeles, and he has actually been a guest on my show, I think back when it was still called The Sound of Young America. Todd, have you ever thought about maybe reading Jonathan Gold's book, Counterintelligence? I've never heard of it until now. I know that all you kids are into this crazy stuff.

Holly, how are you feeling about your chances? I'm feeling all right about my chances. I think they're fair. I'm not feeling overly optimistic. I don't feel I've got it in the bag in any way. Todd, are you relying on your natural belligerence to carry you through this case? I am confident that it's been the case all my life. I just feel that all I need to do is plant my feet and speak the truth and justice will be served.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Holly, if I were to believe Todd, you are a dilettante, flashy fan. Not just that. You're also a mountebank, a blagger, a horse whisperer, and a doodly-doo, which is a name that I just made up. And you are pushy about this food thing. And this is, after all, a work meeting, not a time to sit around, not a foodie, take a picture of your food and try everything new in the world, which I can see as being a distraction from work. And he's also paying for everything. Yeah. Which I got to say, I know changed my thinking about this whole situation.

Because these are work meetings that you're having, and you have a partnership. And yet, in two very significant ways, you guys are not partners at all. Because I think you make a pretty good case that one gets bored of the place that serves chicken Caesar salad and chicken enchiladas and rainbow rolls. And that you need something more to bring literally to the table. And yet at the same time, and so Todd is not being a very good partner because he is kind of really resenting this and not letting you flourish in the partnership.

really resenting this and not letting you flourish in the partnership. And at the same time, you're not doing your part in the partnership by taking on the risk in order to gain the reward. That is to say, you're not paying any money, Todd. Yes. You are, I don't need to look it up, but Merriam-Webster, you're a little bit of a bully. Thank you. Easy.

I just want to say, I have refrained from comment. To that one line? To Holly's interjections in general throughout this entire ordeal. I get it. She's a flimflam.

I know what you're saying. Here's the thing. In theiram. I know what you're saying. Here's the thing. In their partnership, I get where you're coming from. You are putting in a lot. You're a family man. Yes. You have a lot of mental energy that is being expended taking care of your family.

Yes. While Holly is gallivanting around Los Angeles. Absolutely. She can fill up every spare thousand hours a day that she has by not having children, stuffing her face with crazy exotic foods. So why should you have to put up with it, especially when you are sitting down and doing the hard, terrible, and lonely work of staring at the screen all night long.

This is the wisdom of Solomon. Shouldn't a man enjoy a chicken Caesar salad, the most loathsome lunch of all? If that is indeed part of your process in the creative endeavor. That is part of your process in the creative endeavor. That is part of my process. And let me say, I'm not opposed to eating something different for a special occasion. But because this is an everyday thing for us, it's not a special occasion. And if I go overboard every time we go out, then I'm going to be an enormous person and no one will love me. You have chosen to be in a partnership with this person.

And being in a partnership has its downside, which is occasionally compromise, and its reward, which is thinking of things that you wouldn't normally think of. And you do have to respect the fact that it's a partnership. And you can't constantly put your foot down. And I have to say that when you even jokingly call Holly a liar, it sort of stings. But I know you probably mean good humor. Stung me. Okay, easy does it, Holly. I'm taking this on for you. I'm taking this thing. I'm taking this thing

for you. It's fine. Thanks, Your Honor. Thank you. So, you know, you wouldn't want to be in this partnership unless it were going to bring some novelty into your productive life. So I think that there is something, there is a bigger principle here than just where do we eat today. I think the principle is, are we going to really be partners? Now, there can be a senior partner and a junior partner. And it sounds as though that's the relationship that you guys have set up for yourselves for whatever reason, where you are the senior partner who's getting

the ideas and then going home and processing them and paying for the lunch and everything else. But the junior partner needs to be able to bring in some novelty into the thing. So I think it will be better for both of you if you do this. Work day one, chicken Caesar. Work day two, rainbow roll. Work day three, enchilada. Work day four, what was the other boring thing

you like to eat, salt and pepper sandwich? What is it? No, you hit the bottom of the list. No, there were four, weren't there? No, but he has chicken Caesars at two places. Okay. Oh, okay. Chicken Caesar, chicken Caesar, chicken Caesar, enchilada, rainbow roll, chicken Caesar.

Four days in a row, right? Or however, four work sessions in a row. That will give you the stability that you require. And rather than having a fight over work session five, it will be a given that Holly will choose the place to go. You will not fight over it and she will pay for it. Ew. There will be no discussion. There will be no discussion.

There will be no trying to get out of it. There will be no fighting. It will simply be a given. And I think that not only is it reasonable to ask you, Todd, to tolerate a one out of five wild card, but it will actually become part of the routine that will make it so that it's not too crazy for you, and it will introduce a measure of novelty

and show that you respect the junior partnership, if it must be that, of Holly. I think you're getting the benefit of four out of five times, and it will reduce conflict, and it might even get you to enjoy a fifth thing that you like, which indeed is what partnership is all about. Sometimes getting from that partner, that fifth idea that you never would have had on your own. I rule in the favor of Holly one fifth of the time. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Holly, do you feel that you've been vindicated? I do. I like the solution that he came up with. I would not have thought of exactly that solution. And I think it's a great compromise because I think it should give Stick in the Mud Todd like enough mud that he feels comfortable, but it does it and it instantiates a bit of novelty. Todd, are you ever going to get any work done again in your entire life?

I will bear up under whatever circumstances are imposed on me, which is all a screenwriter can ask. Holly, Todd, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I look forward to seeing your TV show about Greek gods in Oxford, Mississippi. Thank you.

Thank you. That was an intense case. I'm surprised those two can work together. Hang on, Jesse. I just had to finish eating that whole live octopus. Once you get that in your mind, you just got to have it. Yeah, sure.

It's one of those things. I'm so excited for that guy that he's finally going to get to try Korean food. A little too crazy for my taste. I should have told him about bulgogi. He's going to love it. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org.

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Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace. Because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun

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If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Bubble gogi. Okay, here's something from Nick. In the spring of 2004, my college friend Aaron bought a panini press with his then-girlfriend. I made fun of my friend because the press was labeled sandwich maker. I argued that it was really a sandwich warmer as the first step in making a sandwich in the sandwich maker was to insert a sandwich. The argument escalated. These people. The argument escalated and I snuck into his room one night with a sharpie, crossed off the word maker, and replaced it with

warmer. Aaron was livid and wouldn't talk to me. He claimed that my defacing of his only piece of communal property that he shared with his girlfriend contributed to their breakup. We're still very close friends now, but he insists that I was

wrong both in improving, in my words, his press, and in calling it a sandwich warmer in the first place. He's marrying the girl he met shortly after the sandwich-related breakup this weekend and wants me to apologize during my best man speech. I steadfastly refuse. Please intervene with a verdict ASAP so that we can know how to proceed. Okay, I think that the wedding has already happened by the time this reaches the fake internet air. But there are a lot of problems that I have

with this whole situation. First of all, I don't ever want to hear stories about college students buying appliances with their girlfriends. College students should not be buying things with any other college student because they can't share things. They're crazy college students. Just buy your own thing. Understand that it's garbage and that you will be forget about it one of these days and nothing that you have in college is going to ever be important to you again, except your relationships. The idea of two, of a boyfriend and girlfriend in college pitching in on a sandwich, whatever is just the most depressing thing. I thought

until I heard in this story that Nick, the defacer of the sandwich press, had to sneak into his friend's room in order to deface it, which I think means this guy was keeping the panini maker in his bedroom. Well, under his pillow,

presumably. And the guy, Aaron, the other guy, wants to blame the defacement of the panini maker in his bedroom for the breakup with the girlfriend, never acknowledging the guy had a sandwich press in his bedroom.

That's gross. I have a feeling that has a lot more to do with it. What was going on? Why did he need to have access to a panini that quickly? So the problem is that he had all these ham sandwiches in his bedroom,

but they were completely untoasted. Yeah, it's true. That's true. It used to be you had to stick them between the mattress and the box spring. That's what I had to do in college in order to get a panini. And use the heating power of friction, if you know what I mean. That's what I had to do in college in order to get a panini. And use the heating power of friction,

if you know what I mean. That's why you had a girlfriend in college, so you could make a sandwich. First of all, Nick, don't go writing on other people's small appliances. Even if you're in college, that's not only a mean prank,

it's a dumb prank. Second of all, so don't do it. That's vandalism. You're wrong. However, I do not believe in a million years that this guy broke up with the girlfriend because the sandwich maker slash warmer was vandalized. And I do think that it is a sandwich warmer or a panini press, I think would be the appropriate thing to say. It's not a sandwich

maker. I will cede that to Nick, even though he's a vandal and a jerk. But he did not break up the girlfriend and boyfriend in this situation because, first of all, what girlfriend cares? And second of all, it's just it just was not clearly not meant to be. And third of all, this action, even if you stipulate that he did break them up, it led to him meeting the woman who's now becoming his wife. And so there's no way that I would allow Nick to say anything about this in his best man speech, because even though he was a jerk and a vandal, for him to tell a story about how he broke up this guy's previous relationship is just a creepy thing to talk about at the wedding.

how he broke up this guy's previous relationship. It's just a creepy thing to talk about at the wedding. So I find in favor of Nick in the sense that the panini maker had a dumb name, but in all other ways, and he does not have to make a speech at the wedding, but in all other ways, you know, stop writing on other people's stuff and don't have a sandwich maker in your bedroom. Okay, here's something from John. My wife Jody and I married five years ago after I completed my medical residency. At nearly every family gathering with her relatives, I am asked my opinion on their various ailments, skin lesions, pains, etc.,

almost all of which are outside my training in infectious diseases. I don't want to know their bowel habits or what color their snot is, much less get a detailed sexual history or actually touch them. Leaving aside issues of medical professionalism, my main contention is that this is a slippery slope and that I will one day be asked to see them naked and thereafter will be unable to unsee that. She says that I'm a know-it-all who loves shooting his mouth off

and that her family could actually benefit from my medical opinion. Please help me restrict my physical interaction with my in-laws to awkward hugs and kisses. First of all, John, the fact that you are becoming a medical doctor means that your whole job is to see people who you would not want to see naked, naked. And that might include your family members in the future, even if they are in-laws. So get over yourself, doc. If you have in-laws coming up to you asking you to diagnose their medical ailments, let me remind you of the Hippocratic Oath. First, do no harm. If you can offer them help, offer them some help. If you

don't know anything about their skin lesions, just say, I'm sorry, Aunt Tilda, I don't know about your skin lesion, but I don't mind looking at it because you're family. This is what being married is all about. You know what? You're going to have so many opportunities as a medical doctor to be an asshole in life. At least be decent to your family. All right, Jesse. Well, what should I wear in order to eat this whole live squid? Well, I think the wetsuit you have on underneath your robes there is probably appropriate because it's still thrashing around in that tank pretty good. Yeah, I know, but I was going to change the wetsuit because I got it stained this morning in live baby panda blood.

So, I don't know. If it's okay to... Are you asking me if you can eat the squid in the nude? Yes. I'll look away. Finally! You see? That's what partnership is all about.

A little give and take. Hey, we need some more cases for Judge John Hodgman. You can submit them to Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. Include your case and a daytime telephone number where you can be reached. Or you can submit them using our web form. You can find that online at MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. So if you have, if you've been thinking that maybe you might want to submit a case to Judge John Hodgman, do it. MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho or email us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org and be sure to include your name and

the nature of the case and your daytime telephone number so we can give you a call back. That sounds reasonable. I think it's pretty reasonable. Everybody's got a dispute in their lives. Yeah, I'm not going to yell at everybody. I'll yell at most people, but it'll all be in fun. It's all in fun.

And hey, let's just pour out a little curried chicken salad for Awesome Cone, which closed after two years. Indeed. They were one of our earliest cases, one of our first times being really mean to people from Portland. They're good sports, and I have it on good authority that the cones were pretty awesome and i never got a chance to try them and i regret it uh so uh and they were also our first buzz marketing success or failure depending on how how well you see the experiment having gone but two years was great uh well done guys guys. And good luck in all your future crazy artisanal boutique endeavors. Indeed. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John

Hodgman podcast. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfun.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman.

We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.