Judge John Hodgman - My Legal Pony

Episode Date: June 25, 2014

Becky says her friend Nancy's Shetland ponies are ill-mannered. Nancy disagrees and says they're perfect just as they are. Who's right?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, my legal pony. Nancy brings the case against her good friend Becky. Nancy keeps a herd of Shetland ponies as pets and thinks they're perfect just as they are. Becky calls the ponies ill-mannered. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Tête de cheval, are you ready to order?

I am, but I have one question about something on the menu. What is spicy pony head? This is a pony head, but spicy. Imagine a pony without the body. I know what a pony is. I just... It's spicy. It makes your mouth on fire.

No, I know what spicy is, too. It's just that when I see a pack animal on the menu of a restaurant... It's a lot of food, eh? We also have a demi pony head. This is one half pony head. No, I don't want a demi pony head. I don't want any pony head.

I try not to eat things that I would ride at the fair. Oh, so you would not eat a monkey. I wouldn't ride a monkey. Okay. Touche. Look, you know what? Just bring me a flank steak, medium rare, side salad, blue cheese. Spicy pony head flank steak, salad, blue cheese.

Wait, what did you just say? Cheese. No, before that. Blue. No, you said spicy pony head. Are all of your steaks spicy pony head meat? It's not all of the steaks. It depends on what the fisherman brings.

Oh, it's a seafood. Like a pony fish or a seahorse. Ah, pony is not a seahorse. A pony is a big beautiful baby with long silky tail. Chop off the head.

Spice. Pony. As you see in a field or in a cave making love to your wife. Okay. Look, I don't have a lot of time. Maybe I'll just swear a minute.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God or whatever? We do. Do you swear to abide by truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? We do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he doesn't ride ponies and, in fact, rides only enormous double-sized horses? We do.

We do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Nancy and Becky, you may be seated. Nancy and Becky, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can you name the piece of culture that Jesse and I performed as I entered the courtroom? Becky? It sounded like The Godfather meets The Pink Panther.

Not correct. You're not just supposed to create an analogy. You're supposed to give it an elevator pitch. But you know what? I like it. I like it because you were thinking of the Clouseau French accent plus waking up with a horse head in your sheets like the Godfather. Exactly. Right, okay. There you go.

I see what you're saying. You're wrong, Nancy. I don't know. I was going to There you go. I see what you're saying. You're wrong, Nancy. I don't know. I was going to say Pink Panther. Pink Panther? No, you guys. Casper Hauser. The Casper Hauser Comedy Group.

Famous sketch. Spicy Ponyhead. As featured on the Casper Hauser Comedy Podcast. I guess you would say on hiatus now, Jesse. Yeah, long-term hiatus. But archives still available at MaximumFun.org. Absolutely. James.

And not only that, the reason we created the Casper Hauser Comedy Podcast in the first place many, many years ago was to promote the release of their first book, SkyMall, Happy Crap You Can Buy From a Plane. And that book has gone on to become a beloved cult classic, which went out of print and commands triple digit prices on Amazon. However, it is about to be re-released in a new edition with expanded materials.

SkyMall is coming back? Yeah, SkyMall, colon, happy crap you can buy from a plane. Featuring some of my favorite items, including the Bandana-ganizer, the Banana-ganizer. What is the product that they have in there that is a nightlight that looks like a Nazi werewolf? What's the Nazi werewolf nightlight? It's to scare your kids straight. My favorite Nazi-related one is it's just Rob Bedecker from Kasper Hauser and maybe a five-year-old boy. And Rob is pointing at a wall-sized world map.

And the item is called nazi grandpa locator well in any case spicy pony head is a sketch by the casper hauser comedy group that is traditionally and appropriately performed by its creators rob bettaker and james richmond and jesse and i did our did our best version of it. And I truly, Jesse, I don't think a day passes when I undertake some kind of writing project where I feel like I wish I could just write Spicy Ponyhead. I wish I would. I would write Spicy Ponyhead.

If I wrote Spicy Ponyhead even once, I would retire. It is the funniest thing. I would be happy with writing Mundo de Perros, the sketch in which an English-speaking dog expert is stranded on a Spanish-language talk show about dogs. World of dogs. Listen, everybody, go to MaximumFun.org slash Casper-Hauser-Podcast. That's K-A-S-P-E-R-Hauser-Podcast. And listen to these things. They're really, really funny. And here's the thing.

You know, we were talking about the name of this episode. Horse Majeure was great. Miley Old Pony is great. Casper Hauser is a great name for a thing. Ponyhead is a great name of this episode. Horse Majeure was great. Miley little pony is great. Casper house is a great name for a thing. Pony heads is a great name for a thing. We could have called this thing, uh, since we're talking about Shetland ponies,

we could have called it Shet your pwn hole, but we didn't. And now it's time to move on. This has been, this has been the Casper Hauser portion of the podcast. Now it's the, what are your names again? Becky and Nancy?

Pay no attention to us. We're just sitting here waiting. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that I have not been giving close enough attention to your very serious case about whether Shetland ponies may be described as ill-mannered or not. The case is brought by Nancy. Nancy, you have a herd of Shetland ponies.

A herd of Shetland pony would not work. You need more than one. And your longtime best friend Becky calls them ill-mannered. Explain to me what your prob is. Well, my problem is that she called my Shetland ponies ill-mannered, explain to me what your prob is. Well, my problem is that she called my Shetland ponies ill-mannered, and I think they're very well-mannered, or at least appropriately mannered for what they need to do. What do they need to do? Are you raising them to go down into coal mines like pit ponies? No, they don't need to do anything. That's what Shetland ponies were bred for, you know.

Yes. Go down into mines. No, mine don't work. So what are they bred to do? Just sit around and look cute? Yes. And let me ask you this. Are they cute or what? They are cute or what? Well, how many of them you have well right now i have 11 all in one house yes wait i had 14 last year so i'm down a couple they don't live in your house with you do they no but they graze on my lawn where do you live uh out in the country in pennsylvania and so if i go out in the country in Pennsylvania and say, anyone tell me where the weird pony lady is, would they all know? Yes, yes. Okay, you have 11.

Do you live in the country or do you live in a suburb that you are trying to convince yourself is the country by putting a bunch of ponies on it, much to the annoyance of your neighbors? No, it's very rural. We have no zoning and, you know, it's, it's rural. You're in no zone, Pennsylvania. Pony, ponies, Bill. Yes. All right. 11. And do they all have names? Yes. Let's go. Charles Fredo, Godiva, Dewdrop, Maddie, Sprite, Connie, Berger, Niles, Frazier, Russell, Russell Stover. Russell Stover, like the candy company? Yes. Have you been hired by Russell Stover to buzz market candies on my podcast? Oh, shoot.

I can't believe I did that. You already snuck in a buzz marketing for Kelsey Grammer. Yeah, and one for The Godfather 2. Yes. I go in themes when I name them. So themes have been candies, sitcoms, 70s crime dramas. What are the other themes?

I did Survivor one year. Oh, I'm buzz marketing. I'm sorry. Oh, that's okay. I'll allow it. What else did I do? I'll allow it to tease out your pony naming schemes. Oh, what else? Oh, hair... Hair.

Hair. Well, burgers from hair. Oh, I was wondering where that one came from. I thought that meant that he was the one you had marked to eat later. Yeah, I thought he was

just headed to France. It's burger with an E. Uh-huh. Uh, what else? I can't remember what... Oh, Boston. Oh, here I go. Boston Legal. I had Shirley Schmidt and Alan Shore.

Boston Legal. Boston Legal. Now, I've not seen that show, but I understand it was a lot of fun. No, I just, it's not that there's anything wrong with Boston Legal. It's just so specific. It's funny how your unbridled laughter might suggest that you do think there's something funny about it. great sitcoms of its time, I think, arguably. Boston Legal is a show that a lot of people enjoyed, but it's kind of a while ago and really specific and also not, you know, it's not A-level. It's like one down. Well, how long ago were your Boston Legal ponies named?

It was after your Chicago Hope ponies passed on. Three or four years ago. I'm behind. I don't, you know, I watch DVDs like later. I don't have television. I thought you meant like, I thought you're behind in that, you know, you're watching Boston Legal whenever it was on seven or eight years ago. And you're like, I got to remember these names of some ponies I'm going to get in the future. Honestly. Nancy, Alan. Honestly, Judge Hodgman. seven or eight years ago. And you're like, I got to remember these names, some ponies I'm going to get in the future.

Honestly, Nancy Allen. Honestly, judge Hodgman. I'm real. I'm one to talk. I named all my ponies after characters from Allie McBeal, dancing baby,

Jane Krakowski. And Lucy Liu. Yeah, there you go. And Peter McNichol. And married to Harrison Ford for a while. If you had a Shet go. And Peter McNichol. And married to Harrison Ford for a while. If you had a Shetland pony named Peter McNichol, I would send you $100. Me?

Yeah, how much does a Shetland pony cost? I give them away if they're good hosts. Oh, they're like zucchini in the summer. You just get too many of them. You know what? I'm going to gonna just leave thanks so much for dinner tomorrow i'm just gonna i'm gonna leave a basket of shetland ponies on your porch no no that's not necessary no i'm just gonna do it i got so many idea how true that is do you breed these ponies yes and here's here's the thing, Jesse, you could have had, like, you could have had some Boston legal heyday ponies. Do you know what I mean?

Because they live 30 years, don't they? How long do they live? 30 or 40. 30 or 40 years. I have one, yeah. What's the oldest one you have? He's late 30s. Late 30s?

Okay. Yeah. Well, we don't really know exactly how old, but he's getting toothless, so he's pretty old. What is his name? Ted Knight from the Ted Knight Show? Ian Charles. He's my stallion. Oh, Ian Charles.

I thought those were two different ponies. Oh, no, that's one. Just because he's toothless doesn't mean he's in his late 30s. I'm only in my early 30s. Who is Ian Charles? What is Ian Charles a reference to? I'm missing something? Well, he was, no, he was named before I got him, and he's named after the son of someone that the person I got him from knows.

Someone had a son and a pony's named after the son of someone that the person I got him from knows someone, you know, someone, someone had a son and a pony and named them the same thing. No, some, the person, my son, Ian Charles and this is our Shetland pony. Also, the person who gave me the pony and named him after the son of someone else. She knows not less weird. How's your son, Ian Charles?

I hear he went to college, everything going well. Did I tell you I named my pony after your son? That's weird. I'm glad you rescued that pony from that weird home and brought him into your own weird home. So he's your stallion. So he's the father of all of these ponies that you got? No, he's the father of some of them. So you are, when was the last time you, you have 11 Shetland ponies on your property currently. How many of them were born on your property of your herd and how many of them were purchased from a different stock?

Currently, I have three that were born here. Okay. I have two that were born elsewhere, but when i still had the ponies and the rest of them i got around the same time i got ian charles and i didn't name them all of them okay i got you i understand so they're not they're not all it's not like you have a pony infestation on your property no they're just breeding there. You're getting ponies the normal way. You buy one here.

You adopt one there. You go grocery shopping. They got some ponies out front. You'll say, ah, what am I? I'll take two. There's a special that's on the end cap. End cap ponies. I've had these ponies, the main group 2001 which is your favorite one ian charles

oh that was a quick answer well he's the best which is the which which pony is the worst ponies the worst yeah which is your worst pony this is a trick because this is playing into this ill-mannered thing it's not a trick this is a there's gotta be a worst pony and despite what you may believe these ponies don't understand english so you could play this podcast for them their feelings won't be heard you are currently under fake internet oath and i I'm asking you, which pony is your worst pony? I would say Burger, because he's the youngest. Do you agree? I don't like the sound of Burger at all.

What is the difference between the best pony and the worst pony? Without talking about age, I appreciate that Burger may mature or season into a good pony, but what makes him a bad pony, and what makes Ian Charles a good pony? Well, Ian Charles is a good pony because he's very handsome, and I really feel like he loves me. And I know that sounds really dumb, but we've established a relationship, and I really feel like he's, you know,

loves me. Yeah. Shetland ponies are not dumb animals. No. They're not dogs. They're very smart. Hey, my dogs love me. I know. Dogs form a love bond, I think, with their human companions, even though they're hilariously dopey some of the time.

The humans or the dogs? Both. And Shetland ponies are, I am led to understand from Wikipedia, that they are smart animals. And indeed, they were not bred in order to go down mines, but they were used for many years in England and Scotland and in the United States in mines, in coal mines. And they would go down there because they're short animals. And they'd pull that coal around. And a pit pony, as they were called, might live for shorter than a regular pony because they're underground. But they might live their whole lives underground. 15 years. And they would only work with one miner. Because they formed a bond with that miner. And that miner would lead that pony around. And if the miner retired or had an accident or had to leave the mine,

usually the pony would not be usable by anyone else. And so they would retire it. And the retirement of the pit pony was not always a terrible thing either. Then they would go above ground. And they would blink and they would go, what the hell? And after a couple of years they'd die because they'd just freak out. Fun facts about ponies, you guys. Yeah. So I believe

that Ian Charles loves you, just as I believe that Burger the Pony hates you. I don't think he hates me. What's Burger's prob? And don't say that he's young what is his behavior what's the behavior that causes you

to say on a national I dare say international podcast listened to by a lot of ponies by the way that he is worst pony of the herd see this is going to be self-incrimination because it's because he misbehaves I haven't gotten to Becky yet.

Becky who claims Shetland ponies are ill-mannered. That's a blanket statement. You are defending your case by saying Ian Charles is a good pony. Burger is the worst of herd. Here's why. What does he do? He's difficult to catch. He's difficult to get to lead.

He's difficult to just handle. But he's getting better. So the more time I spend with him, the better he'll be. And then he might not be the worst pony. Does he bite? No. not really. So he has bitten. Not really.

He might have probably nipped. He might have probably nipped? Yeah. You? Me. Yeah. Yeah. You may not recall.

Did he nip your amygdala? And therefore you're not sure? No, he probably just nipped at my coat or something at some point. I'm sure he has at some point. They all do when they're little. Does he gossip? Does he talk crap about other ponies behind their backs? He bothers the other ponies because he's playful.

Oh, okay. How does he bother the other ponies? Well, he jumps on them and chases them and tries to get them to play. All right. Nancy? No, Becky? Excuse me. No, Nancy.

Yes. No, Becky. Bansy. Bansy. No, Becky. Banshee. I tend to be a little bad with names in the best of scenarios, but when both names end with E and both people,

both of the women are veterinarians, I start to get confused. Because that's true, you're both trained veterinarians. Is that not so? Yeah, we have that effect on men. I don't know who's talking now. That's Becky. All right, Becky. Yes.

Are you a veterinarian? I am. Is Nancy a veterinarian? She is. All right. Becky. Yes. You come around to help Nancy with her herd of ponies, and you believe that Shetland ponies are ill-mannered?

Is this accusation true? I don't believe all Shetland ponies are ill-mannered. Just Nancy's? Yes. Not just Nancy's, but Nancy's are. I'm sure there are other Shetland ponies out there that are ill-mannered that I don't know about. Would you say that all 11 of Nancy's current horde of ponies are ill-mannered? No.

How many of them are ill-mannered? Ten. With the exception being Ian Charles, the best pony? Of course, yes, of course. Ten ponies are ill-mannered, and how would you characterize an ill-mannered pony? Does it not take its baseball hat off in a dining room? I consider any horse... Does it not write thank you notes? Probably not. They haven't ever written one to me. But that wasn't what bothers me. What bothers me is any horse to me is ill-mannered if they don't respect your personal space.

Okay. And what's the problem? Are these ponies coming over to your house and hanging around your office when you're trying to do work? They would if they could drive, I guarantee it. They're like, hey, what are you doing? What are you working on? Tell me how they don't respect your personal space. Don't respect your personal space. And if Nancy's out there with them, and she has even said this to me on occasion, that sometimes when she's working around the whole crew,

she's a bit uneasy because they surround her and sort of push her around and basically are in her space, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but it's like 10 300-pound misbehaving children pushing you around. But Becky, Nancy, when you get 11 Shetland ponies together, what do you expect is going to happen? They only, they're only really bad like that if I take treats out. So if I take carrots or peppermints, then yes, it gets a little hairy out there because they all want to treat. So I don't do that very often. Becky, do you have any experience raising Shetland ponies? I have never raised Shetland ponies.

I have owned Shetland ponies, but I have not reproduced them. How many Shetland ponies have you ever owned at one time? How large did your horde of Shetland ponies have you ever owned at one time? How, how large did your hoard of Shetland ponies get? One. Okay. Do you hoard any other animals, cockatiels,

snakes? I have 16 goats, 16 fainting goats. No, you don't. Is that considered hoarding? I do. Don't tell me you have 16 fainting goats I do

Number one, that's not a real animal No, it's real It's real, of course it's real Are you calling Becky a liar, Jesse? Fainting goats Yeah, do you know what a fainting It's a stiff-legged What is it called, Becky?

You can call it a stiff-legged or a myotonic goat. When they get excited or frightened, they stiffen up and fall over. They don't really faint. Haven't you used the internet in the past several years, Jesse? Truly, we live in a world of marvels. If all of you who are listening to this podcast stop currently in your cars and look up fainting goats you a will know what i'm talking about and b will have wasted yours and the entire world's time as you block traffic so don't do it wait till you get home so becky you must be in the

business of making YouTube videos. Is that why you have 16 fainting goats? No, I have 16 fainting goats for the same reason Nancy has ponies. It's because you breed them and then, you know, you get more. And then sometimes you can't find them homes. And then next year you breed them again and you get more. And then sometimes you can't find them homes. But why did you get these hilarious novelty goats that when you scream at them, they fall over? Well, I have always liked goats.

And what I like about the feigning goats is they're very gentle. They come in all different sizes. They're very sweet goats, easy to handle. Easy to bully. Easy to catch. Easy to bully. Easy to catch. Easy to bully. You like animals that fall. Maybe it's not that the animals are ill-tempered.

Maybe you only like animals that fall down when you yell. Wouldn't it be great if you could make ponies fall down when you yell at them? Yeah, Nancy, why aren't you breeding fainting ponies? And then you make a fortune in YouTube videos. I like my ponies on the leg, standing up. I understand. So which is better, Becky, goats or ponies? Oh, that's hard.

You know, I'm still a horse person. I still have to say ponies. All right. So you have experience with horses? Yes, I'm still a horse person. I still have to say ponies. All right. So you have experience with horses. Yes, I'm a horse veterinarian. Okay. Okay. So you have a lot of experience with horses.

Yes. We both do. At all of their various stages of life and death. Yes. And you've never raised ponies. You once had one until you realized they're all jerks. Well, no. I currently have.

So you fed it to the goats. I have. I currently own Shirley Schmidt, who used to be of the Nancy herd, who is now a companion to my horse. Oh, okay. And when you adopted Shirley Schmidt from the Nancy herd, was she an incorrigible jerk? Was she ill-mannered? Yes. Have you trained her up right now?

No. Well, I have. Excuse me, Nancy. Becky, have you trained her up right? I have trained her, but the ill-mannered part is never going to go away. There's always that underlying rebel that causes trouble. Do you believe that this is an innate character trait of all Shetland ponies? Or are you saying that Nancy is a terrible Shetland owner?

I'm saying that in the horse world, the joke is that pony is a four-letter word. Please send me as quickly as possible. A book of horse world jokes. So you're not blaming, you're not blaming your friend Nancy for the terrible behavior of her ponies. It's just part of a part of owning a pony. No, I'm not blaming Nancy,

but I just want her to, um, be more firm with them. And it's because I don't care how her ponies behave, but I do care about her safety. Oh, come on. Excuse me, Nancy. Becky, you feel, describe the behavior of these monsters that make you feel for your friends, you fear for your friends' safety.

monsters that make you feel for your friends you fear for your friend's safety well first off she's often out there with the ponies by herself and you think oh little ponies what can little ponies do but if you if you have a bunch of them pushing you around if she gets knocked down or hurt there's nobody here that's going to realize that so so you think it's going to be one of those situations where just the neighbor down the hall notices a smell and they come and open up her apartment and just overrun with ponies there's just a skeleton or nancy will be dragging herself across the field trying to get help do you do you hopefully her rooster wouldn't get to her first, because that would be really ugly. How realistic do you feel it is, Nancy, that a pony might knock you down, causing you to hurt yourself such that you would become immobile?

Well, I think it's possible, but I think it would be an accident. No, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not suggesting that the ponies have malice in their hearts towards you. I don't even think that Nancy is suggest excuse me, Becky is suggesting that I'm suggesting it is the premise for a new television show, which is called all creatures great and small special victims unit. All right. And that's a podcast, everyone. Good night. Nancy, have you ever, have you ever gotten, have you ever been in a situation where you felt menaced by all of these small ponies? Once, well, a couple of times over the years, but. Describe, describe the horror.

Well, I don't, it wasn't a horror. Well, I remember one time specifically, they crowded around. I was trying to get like through a gate and they were all crowded around. And I think I might have gone to my knees briefly because of the crowding. And then there was a car driving by and I was kind of embarrassed because I didn't want someone to see and think that things were out of control and I got up and I was okay it's a little more dicey like if I'm handling the babies when I'm trying to train them for halt get them haltered and such and the baby's going to get a little out of control I got a little confused there for a moment I thought you were also running a childcare service and you were talking about handling the babies amidst your herd of ponies.

No. Would you feel safer? Would you feel safer around a herd of 11 small ponies or one pony sized duck? This is that old. Speaking of internet memes, you guys are both internet memes come to life. Oh!

Really? Well, yeah, because Becky, you've got all the fainting goats, and Nancy, you've got the herd of duck-sized horses. You're familiar with that old saw, right? No. Which would you rather fight? A herd of duck sized horses or a single horse sized duck? What's the answer?

Duck sized horses. Is that one of the options? Yeah, that's what I said. A herd of them though, not one. They're coming at you from every end. Sure, I'll pick a herd because i know how horses react and behave i don't know how ducks do it yeah you have experience fighting off herds and duck-sized horses already it's happened a couple of times no you know that's that's not really true if you are if you are afraid of the neighbors seeing you menaced by 11 ponies, does that not suggest that outside of your own little isolated world, once it is perceived by the outside world, you're afraid that the

outside world might see there's something dangerous and wrong about what you're doing? That was one time. I mean, most of the time, my neighbors see me out walking around, petting the ponies, brushing the ponies, and nothing's going on. Sure. It was just that one time that those ponies got a little drunk and out of hand, and it was a hard day at work for them. Is there a shelter nearby for people who have been abused by their ponies? See, I just think that Becky is painting a very wrong portrait of my ponies. And I think it's because Shirley is a little bit difficult. So tell me more about what Becky's motive would be for slandering your ponies.

I think it's Shirley. Go on. Because Shirley misbehaves. She does stuff that can be, some people might think are bad. Like she ate part of her fence or something. Now, this was when she went to Becky's. And I didn't have any problems with Shirley here. And Becky picked Shirley out.

I didn't have any problems with Shirley here, and Becky picked Shirley out. So I think it's Becky's responsibility to manage the pony. Becky, is this true? Are you upset because you think that Nancy passed a bum pony off on you? No, no, I definitely picked Shirley out because I needed a pony that could stand up to my horse and tolerate his behavior. So you've got a jerk horse, too. What's the name of your horse? Sidney.

Sidney from the TV show Love, Sidney starring Tony Randall? No. Oh, well, that's what it should be. I don't name my animals after TV personalities. All right. Tony Randall would be a great name for a horse. Who's my Tony, Tony Randall would be a great name for a horse. Who's my horse? Tony Randall.

Just think about it. Or, or a pony. Think about it. If I had, if I had a bunch of horses, all of them would be named after the Kentucky Derby horses

from that one Mr. Show sketch. You know, like Batman the horse. from that one Mr. Show sketch. You know, like Batman the horse. I don't doubt it at all. Mr. Fast Horse.

Nor is it impossible for me to picture you, Jesse Thorne, with three or four Shetland ponies on your property. Well, I would have miniature donkeys. Donks. All right. Becky, do you think uh has an animal hoarding problem no okay do you think she's a responsible owner of the ponies do you think she has too many does she have more than she can handle no okay your main concern is that she's being menaced by the ponies and they're plotting against her? My main concern is that she doesn't set good boundaries with the ponies. And like she was just saying about Shirley Smith was no problem here in her herd because her standards are different than mine. So she's okay if ponies bump into her and push her around and things like that.

And I'm not. And so that's, that's the difference of opinion is just. All right. Hypothetically, since you, since you both have experience with large animals, if, if you were to take care of 11 Shetland ponies, let's say you inherited Nancy's herd of 11 Shetland ponies because those ponies mauled her to death or did something terrible to her or sent her out of the country. How would you raise them differently? How would you care for them differently than your best friend, Nancy? Well, I would have to say that maybe that's my concern about Nancy's safety is I don't want to inherit 11 Shetland ponies. But anyway you do differently? Or if you had your own herd of ponies?

Like what? I understand you say they are not allowed to get close to me. But how do you have that happen? You just have to get after them a little bit. You sometimes have to smack them on the butt and say back off or chase them away from you when they're getting too close. They learn to respect you pretty quickly when they know that you're not going to let them crowd you. So, so a whack and a verbal chastisement, that is the way to get a pony to respect you.

I want to know, cause I want to earn these ponies respect. Yes. All right. And you don't think that you, you don't think that the Nancy whacks her ponies enough. I don't know if Nancy has ever raised a whacks her ponies enough? I don't know if Nancy has ever raised a hand to her ponies. Nancy, how do you respond to Becky's suggestion that you ought to hit your ponies more? Well, you know, that's kind of barbaric to hit a pony, I think. But, I mean, if you're trying to get past them, yeah, I might slap them on the rear end

and they may or may not move, but they don't kick me or anything if I go by. So I can, you know, I can weave my way in between ponies and I'm not worried about getting kicked. So yeah, they don't really respect my personal space very much, but they don't generally do anything. personal space very much, but they don't generally do anything. Is it barbaric to whack a pony on the butt? No. No. I mean, I don't know what the standards of pony raising are because I live in Brooklyn where the only animals we raise are chickens and spoiled children.

animals we raise are chickens and spoiled children. No, it's pretty standard if you're going past or, you know, if you're trying to or asking an animal like a horse to move, you might, I mean, it's not, I wouldn't call it a whack. It's just kind of a slap. How many ponies are you going to have? How many ponies is too many ponies? Well, I think 10 is fine. So you're already one over the limit. Well, yeah. But I was up to 14 last year, so that was just too many.

And what became of the three? You gave one to Becky. Yeah. One to Becky. one went to another friend right and oh one went to a local person person nearby all of whom you had you had vengeance against yeah no let the record show that she said yes you're training you're training these ponies to be assassins admit the truth no they're very good ponies and i train them using positive reinforcement and it's just that i i don't do enough of it all right you don't do enough positive it. All right. You don't do enough positive reinforcement. Well, I don't do it over and over. That means giving them rewards for the correct behavior.

And ignoring the unwanted behavior, yes. Right. How many, and this question is for Nancy, with regard to Becky's goats, how many fainting goats are too many fainting goats? I don't, I think she has enough. I think it's adequate. I think we all agree she has enough. Do you think 16 might not be enough?

Is it? Well, if she has, she has the room for more if she wanted more. And she, it's just a matter of not having, it takes a lot of time to take care of them. Why do you care, Nancy, what Becky thinks of your ponies? Why would you bring this to my court? What does it matter if she thinks badly of your ponies? Well, I guess in part, if she thinks my ponies are ill-mannered, well, when she first said it, I was kind of taken aback because I think my ponies are wonderful. And I guess then I start to wonder, so she really means that?

And what am I not seeing? Because I think they're good ponies. And then I guess the whole thing about Shetland ponies in general being bad ponies, and I get a little irritated, not with Becky per se, but everybody's got a bad Shetland pony story. And it's just because they weren't handling them properly. So I get a little irritated about the general misconception about Shetlands. Is that true? Does everyone have a bad Shetland pony story? Or is this possibly a matter of you having an unusual sample? sample. People that have been around horses, especially older people, probably had a Shetland pony when they were little. So you're saying that Nancy claiming that your ponies are ill-tempered

is a comment on your raising of those ponies. Well, I take it very personally because these ponies are kind of, they're're like me they're kind of my identity so i take it personally both on their behalf and also on my behalf as their owner and she's saying this around town and ruining your reputation in the shetland uh pony community well i worry that that might be happening although i don't I'm not really part of a community. No, as I would imagine, someone with 11 Shetland ponies probably does feel that way. It takes an enormous amount of self-awareness for a woman who owns 11 Shetland ponies that she considers to be extensions of herself to acknowledge that she's not really part of a community. I think we made a major step right then.

You're doing some hard work, Nancy, right now, and I appreciate it. I think I do have a lot of self-awareness. I know you do. I'm just being silly. I think we should change it from Judge John Hodgman to Dr. John Hodgman. I have a doctor in fake internet judging. An honorary doctorate from Raven's Crest University. Well, but still, Becky, this does amount to a kind of slander.

If you're going around town and posting mean comments about Nancy's ponies on the Shetland bulletin boards and whatever, this amounts to a critique of her as a person, does it not? I can honestly say that the subject of Nancy and her ponies has never come up in any of my day-to-day conversations with anybody. What would you advise me to do, Becky, if I were to find in your favor with regard to Nancy's ponies? What would you want me to order? I would want you to order for Nancy to... Because I can't change the nature of Shetland Ponies. Everybody's got a Shetland Pony story.

We all know what they are like. Now I'm being a little pony racist. We all know what they are like. But if there is something at work here beyond simply you're having a rather sniffy opinion of your friend's pony raising habits what would you ask me if there was a

motivating factor of her safety or a concern for her health physical or mental what would you have me order her? Bearing in mind that you own 16 fainting goats. Okay. All I would ask is that you allow me to keep telling her that they're ill-mannered. Because ever since I said that, she's on such a quest to prove me wrong that she keeps telling me how much she's been working with the ponies. So by me saying the ponies are ill-mannered, it motivates her to make them more well-mannered. So I don't need you to do anything other than let me keep saying it. Nancy, has Becky's observation or slander, depending on how I define it in my verdict, caused you to treat your ponies differently?

And has you seen a net positive or negative result due to that treatment? I don't think I've treated them differently. No, but I look at them and wonder, like, if they do something and think, is that bad? Because it doesn't bother me. But I think, is that ill mannered? Because it might not be something that, like, if I have to spend a little more time doing something, just because they're not as well trained as other people's horses, it doesn't really bother me that much.

So you're saying your opinion of your ponies and your pony raising is not changed by Becky's observation that they're ill-mannered? Well, I question it a little, but in general, no, it hasn't changed. You question it because you don't believe it to be true. Because I don't believe it to be true, but it makes me wonder. I worry, am I missing something? Am I really off base here? All right. And so you would have me order that Becky be a gag order with regard to Becky's comments about the manners of your Shetland ponies.

Well, I guess it was good that we had a conversation here because I would like her to not call them ill-mannered. But if she really thinks they're ill-mannered and there's something really wrong, then I want to know. I always worry that people don't tell me the truth because they like me. Not that I think that many people like me that much, but if someone likes me, well, but if someone likes me, I worry that they're not really telling me everything I need to know. Do you guys have family members living at home with you or is it just you and your goats and ponies? Sadly, it's just me and my goats and her and her ponies. All right. Then it's important that you guys stay friends. I think I've heard everything

that I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to ride my pony down into the coal pit that is my chambers and I'll make my decision in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Nancy, how are you feeling about your chances? I think my chances are pretty good. I don't think Becky really made a very strong case about how ill-mannered she thinks my ponies are or the danger that she thinks I'm in. I think there's many more dangerous things than my ponies. Becky, how are you feeling? Well, honestly, after the last comment about our sad, pathetic lives and we better remain friends, I don't really care. How come neither one of you has ever purchased or otherwise obtained a donk or miniature

donkey? Oh, don't even get me going on that. That's Becky. You wouldn't be able to stop talking about how adorable it is? No. Actually, there are two miniature donkeys that live on my brother's property, which is part of mine. So I do take care of them as a vet.

And they, being half mule-like in their personality, they're like ponies on steroids, behavior-wise. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a minute. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org.

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Well, I almost didn't come back because I was too busy looking at pictures of donks. They're so cute. Miniature donkeys. They're so cute. Miniature donkeys. I wish I could probably have a small herd of donks here in Brooklyn, right? Like in the courtyard of your apartment building? Yeah, that could be.

Everyone would enjoy that. I think that would be fun. I bet you someone would write about me in Time Out New York. That would be a good way to get into the style section of the New York Times. There you go. Look what's, look what the, look what Brooklyn people are trying to do now to get attention. That'll be the headline. You won't believe what podcasters are up to. All these cute little donks. But here's the thing. I don't live in the country. Not full time anyway. I spent some time out in the country in Internetless Hills, Western Massachusetts, in a semi-rural to rural area like the one I think you guys inhabit. A couple of acres of

land separating you from everyone else in the world. I'd never really considered the very serious possibility of being marauded by a herd of donkeys or ponies, such that I couldn't get help. But it's true. If I fell down and hurt myself and there was no one with an earshot, it would be different than if I were in New York City. earshot. It would be different than if I were in New York City. That said, I'm not really sure that these Shetland Pony conspiracy.

That said, Nancy, every child has a parent, and every parent believes their child is wonderful, smart, and beautiful. And we know, though, from history, that those parents are not always right. And we know, though, from history, that those parents are not always right. Sometimes children are not as smart or not as beautiful or not as good as their parents naturally believe them to be. There is a perception bias. The one who owns the Shetland ponies sees only good ponies. She sees them as an expression of herself.

This is a well-known saying. Amongst horse people. You see it on any t-shirt that is sold in the Topatico Maximum Fun Store. The one who owns the ponies sees all ponies as good, or whatever it was I said. New t-shirt. Sometimes we need friends, especially if we are all alone in the world with our ponies and our goats who do not speak English to tell us the hard truths that we may not be able to perceive ourselves.

that we may not be able to perceive ourselves. And when someone says to you, your ponies are ill-mannered, as happens on the subway in New York City all the time, they may be crazy. They may be jealous. They may be mean. But every now and again, they may be jealous, they may be mean, but every now and again, they may be right about one of your ponies. And when you have 11 of them, it's even more statistically likely they're right about at least one.

So when someone gives you a note, whether it is in pony raising or story writing or child rearing that you don't like, you do not need to shut them up. All you need to do is say, huh, maybe there's something I need to look at here. And you look a little more closely and then you use your best judgment to determine whether or not your friend is your friend or just a jealous goat owner.

Doesn't have the stuff that it takes to keep 11 ponies. Doesn't have what it takes to keep a bunch of animals that when you yell at them, stay standing. Whatever the case, it is okay for your friend to make a comment about your ponies. Anyone who owns 11 animals and is being constantly jostled and pushed and nipped at by them has to have some thick skin. Which isn't to say that I'm necessarily finding in Becky's favor. Because, Becky, your job is done. I'm convinced that Nancy has heard what you had to say that I'm necessarily finding in Becky's favor, because Becky, your job is done. I'm convinced that Nancy has heard what you had to say, the mean comment about her ponies. It has had the effect that you wanted. It has given her a moment of reflection.

She has revealed that she is aware of an outside world in which people don't own 11 ponies. of an outside world in which people don't own 11 ponies, and she is doing the hard work it takes to make sure that her ponies are being raised correctly. To continue, as you have suggested, to tell her over and over again that her ponies are ill-mannered, in person, and I presume you would also like to write little notes to her to slip under her door every day. Ponies are ill-mannered. Call her up in the middle of the night. Your ponies are ill-mannered.

And otherwise, torture her with your perception goes beyond neighborliness and friendliness. You've made your point. I've helped you make it. Let the matter now rest. Let it rest like a fainting goat. I find in Nancy's favor. And so this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Becky, how do you feel? I think that was a fair, fair assessment. Nancy, do you feel vindicated? Uh, yeah, yes, I do. I think they're very good ponies, but I will, I will try to pay better attention to how they might be perceived. You guys are the best. Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Good luck, you guys. Thank you. Thank you, Judge. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I.

Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go,

try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we've received some correspondence here that I think we should get into. Sorry, I was just petting my miniature horse. Do you think that my miniature donkey and your miniature horse will ever be friends?

Yeah, and they'll make a mini mule. That is a real thing. I met a mini mule. Sure. Let's talk about this correspondence. So we got a letter from—we actually got two letters from the members of Casper Hauser, the legendary sketch comedy group. Yeah, we did their spicy pony head sketch at the beginning of this podcast. And then after we recorded it, we asked them for permission to use it because we're a little bit backwards. And we

learned some surprising news from Rob Bedecker, the Frenchman in the sketch. Yeah, so here's what Rob told us. We were at a party at a barn near Memphis, Tennessee, and there was a Shetland pony poking its head out through the fence. A coincidence. My daughter was petting him. It was evening time. Everything seemed fine. I turned my back to go back to the barn to get some sparkling water.

Suddenly, I heard an ungodly shrieking. I turned around to see the pony, my daughter's turquoise flannel shirt in its mouth, tugging like a maniac. I wrestled the shirt out of the pony's mouth and comforted my wailing daughter. The little beast had eaten a hole in her shirt. Luckily, he had not bitten her arm. I looked into the pony's widely spaced eyes and knew that he was a sociopath. A little furry, stunted, four-legged Hannibal Lecter. You know, Jesse, we did not know that Rob had an experience with the Shetland pony

when we did that sketch at the top of the podcast. Isn't that right? Had no idea. So statistically speaking, the fact that basically at random, a man whose name we mentioned through a comedy sketch had a terrible experience with a sociopathic pony, to me, that means that's got to be a widespread problem, right? Ill-mannered Shetland ponies trying to eat children. I mean, one can only assume. I think we can only extrapolate from the available data. I mean, I'm no expert at maths, merely esoteric British pronunciation of things. But, Jesse, is there. Rob does this sketch often with James Richmuth, who typically will play the straight man role, the customer.

And James actually wrote in a riposte to Rob's letter. I think you have that one. I am surprised by how different Rob's account of the, quote, pony attack on his daughter is from that of witnesses nearby and of the official story given by the Record Dispatch Evening Edition. He leaves out two important questions. One, did she taunt the small horse or violate an unwritten rule of pony psychology, staring right at it for too long? She might have. She might most definitely maybe have. Two, it should also be noted that Rob's daughter is 40 years old and a green belt. She can take care of herself, although she never has. Only settle for the facts. Sincerely, James Richmuth, on behalf of the other members of Kasperhauser. Well, see, this really throws a wrench into things. It's like a Shetland pony Rashomon.

From through whose perspective do we see this unfolding series of events? I can't wait for the for the ponies letter. Yeah, you know, I can only I can only understand your Rashomon reference through the Simpsons parody of Quentin Tarantino's allusions to Rashomon. Yeah, you think you think I or anyone has ever seen Rashomon? Of course not. No one has seen it. That's why we all describe that movie differently. Of course not. No one has seen it. That's why we all describe that movie differently. Well, I think that will give people something to chew on, so to speak. Yeah, a turquoise shirt or child arm to chew on.

And I think people should watch out for Kasper Hauser's SkyMall Happy Crap You Can Buy From a Plane, which is coming to bookstores soon. And Rob Bedecker actually also has a brand new book out, which is so great. I've really been enjoying reading it here at the office. It's called What to Talk About on a Plane at a Cocktail Party in a Tiny Elevator with Your Boss's Boss. And it is a very funny book of actual advice on how to talk to people. And it features pictures by Tony Millionaire, the great Tony Millionaire. I actually read it on a plane, didn't talk to anybody because I was tired. And then I left it on the plane.

So if any of you flew coast to coast via Delta recently and you found it, I'd like it back, please. Let's clear the docket. No, you know what? Keep it, read it, and tell someone about it and buy another copy for yourself. Let's clear the docket. We've got something from Keith here. I bring the case against my sister Helen. I wrote a comic book script entitled Pyrowolf vs. Octoborg, and I'd like Helen to give me feedback on it. First of all, just by saying those words,

it was sold as a five-film quintile to the Sci-Fi Network. Go on. She read a draft of it when I was halfway through, but she hasn't returned to read the final version, despite me pestering her about it. She tells me she doesn't have enough time to read it, but she spends hours watching movies or on social media. I don't think this is a huge imposition.

It should only take a few hours, and she seemed to enjoy the sci-fi story and characters. I'm surprised it's a sci-fi story. I would have figured that it was like a sort of Chekhovian realist drama. I'm surprised it has characters. I've never written anything this ambitious before, and I trust her judgment. We play D&D together, so she has some experience with my storytelling. Judge, can you order her to offer her input? Keith, this is Judge John Hodgman speaking. The hardest thing to learn when you are a creative person

is that no one cares what you do. No one cares. People are making things all the time. And meanwhile, other people have taxes to pay and social medias to update and clothes to pick out and wages to earn. and clothes to pick out and wages to earn. The fact that you make a thing does not compel the world to pay attention. Only the thing itself can make someone pay attention. And it's a very hard thing to appreciate. Here's an example.

Let's say you make a Ragnarok survival kit because you figure there are 500 people in the world who would appreciate a DVD of your Netflix special Ragnarok, plus some custom-made survival mayonnaise, plus a beautiful engraved urine flask, plus a completely non-joke unisex cologne that you spent a lot of time working with a fragrance consultant to craft for everyone in the world to enjoy. You figure 500 people in the world would want this for a mere $150. And it turns out that after six months, there is still some left over. Them's the breaks.

Bit.ly slash survive Ragnarok to get some of your last survival kits from Ragnarok. You can get them right now, everybody. But I can't pester you to do it because what I have learned, the hard way, the hard lesson that I've learned being a creative person now for 25 months at least,

I can't remember anymore, is that you can't make people do anything. When it comes to how they dispose of their leisure time, people will do what they want to do and not do what they don't want to do. There are situations where you can compel someone to do something because you pay them money, right? They have to go review a movie. But otherwise, people will do what they want to do with their time, like going to see Jenny Slate, An Obvious Child, an amazing movie that I haven't seen, but I want to. I'm going to go see it. And there are a

lot of movies that I'm not going to go see because I don't have time. I learned this difficult lesson in some ways when I worked as a literary agent and people were sending me their books all the time. When you write a book, you feel like the world should give you some feedback, but it doesn't care. Only if the work itself makes you care does someone want to return to it or the description of it or the whatever. And I think that Pyro Wolf versus Octoborg sounds pretty funny,

but your sister read half of it and she doesn't want to read more. That's a note for you. You can't tell her to read more of it unless you're paying her money to do so. And you don't want to, right? Because you want the thing to draw her back into it. So no offense to you, but it may be that your Pyrowolf versus Octoborg story needs a little bit more of a compelling setup. Maybe it needs some more work that you haven't quite done yet. Maybe it needs even more compelling characters.

Maybe it needs something that I can't even articulate because I haven't read this thing, and let's face it, I probably won't because I'm a busy dude just like your sister. I got social medias to attend to as well. Whatever the case it is, this horrible absence of feedback, which is so awful to every creative person, is nonetheless a note that you did not find your audience there. You could ask other people to read it and see if they give you any feedback. But that absence of interest in continuing is the best note that you're going to get that you need to go back and work on it a little bit harder and try again. little bit harder and try again. And by the way, pestering her to read it, as someone who worked for a long time reading the works of unpublished authors who would frequently pester me that I

didn't read it in time, every time you pester that person, the more likely they are going to hate you and wish your death. Just so you know. But I don't wish your death. I wish your continued long life and your sister's too. And I think you will do a good job as you face these hard lessons in life that your sister doesn't care what you do. If you have a case for the Judge John Hodgman podcast, we want to hear it. Send it to Hodgman at MaximumFun.org or to go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Big or small, we at least considers them all. You know, just give us the details.

We love all kinds of cases, right, Hodgman? That's the thing. You send these things in to me, I read them all. Maybe I'll get right back to you because you've got a great case that's perfect for this podcast. Maybe I won't get right back to you because it's not such a great case. And maybe you won't hear back from me for a long time. You're going to be mad because I didn't respond to the thing that you sent me. It's not, you're going to live, everybody.

You make a thing in the world, you put it out there, it doesn't get the response you want. You have not died. You just make another thing and you just keep going. I would say also with regard to this, like let's say your friend is whinging to you about some conflict in his or her life. I say send them to Hodgman. Maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho. Hodgman will settle it. All right. You know what? Send me this. All right, everybody. Easy. Easy does it. Because I was rough on Keith, I'm going to say, send me Pyrowolf versus Octoborg. If you can hack it, I will read it, and I will give you some feedback in private and on the podcast.

I'm excited to hear about this. And I only want Pyrowolf versus Octoborg from Keith. If you've got a competing Pyrowolf versus Octoborg project, I don't need to hear about that right now. If you've got a competing Pyrowolf versus Octoborg project, I don't need to hear about that right now. Yeah, we don't want to get into one of those Armageddon versus... What was the other asteroid movie that was coming out at the same time as Armageddon? Deep Impact. Yeah, Armageddon versus Deep Impact situations.

Actually, I do. Now that I say it, if you do have a Pyrowolf versus Octoborg, and a legit one, send that in, and I'll read them both, and then we'll have a whole episode dedicated to which one is better. The fact is, Keith, your script may be great, and your script may be terrible. I will read it and give you some feedback, because your sister can't be bothered to do it. But I stand by what I say. feedback because your sister can't be bothered to do it. But I stand by what I say. If she was really interested in what you showed her the first time, she would be coming back for more. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. If you want to name a future case, we would love to have you do so go to facebook.com slash judgejohnhodgman and like us

there and follow us on twitter I'm at jesse thorn and judge hodgman is at hodgman Alex Mader named this week's case thank you Alex thanks Alex our producer is Julia Smith our editor is Mark McConville by the way Mark McConville's brilliant improv slash sketch group, Super Ego,

has been putting up some really cool videos, animated videos from their sketches on Nerdist.com lately. And I really recommend that you go check those out. If you Google Super Ego animations, you will find them forthwith. And they're really funny and great. super ego animations. You will find them forthwith, and they're really funny and great. Check out the movie Obvious Child by Jenny Slate, my co-star,

my co-guest star in the upcoming FX comedy show Married. Well, I'll tell you what. If you're out there, I know, Hodgman, that you haven't seen it yet. You're just headed out to see it. I have seen it, and Jenny was actually a guest on Bullseye

recently, and A, the movie is fantastic, and B, nobody could be more charming and hilarious than Jenny Slate. It doesn't get any better than that. So, definitely go check out that movie. I really loved it. I really thought it was excellent. Yeah, and how much

money you get for that, Jesse? Zero dollars, right? Zero dollars and zero cents. I get nothing. That's what you want to ascribe. That's what you want. Everyone should aspire in creative life to be Jenny Slate. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.