Judge John Hodgman - Namer vs. Namer

Episode Date: January 15, 2014

Josh brings the case against his wife Jackie. They each kept their respective surnames when they married, and now can't decide on a last name for their future children. Should the kids take their mom or dad's last name, combine them, or take on a brand new appellation? Only one man can decide.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Namer versus Namer. Josh brings the case against his wife Jackie. They each kept their respective surnames when they married. Should the kids take their mom or dad's last name, combine them, or take on a brand new appellation? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. One man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Tis but thy name that is my enemy. Thou art thyself, though not a judge. What's judge? It is not hand, nor foot, nor arm, nor face, nor any other part belonging to a man.

Oh, be some other name. What's in a name? That which we call piehole by any other means would be as shut. Bailiff, um, Tom, is it Tommy? Whatever your name is, swear a man. Please rise. Raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? Whatever. Sure. Uh, Josh, I'm going to need an actual yes. The choices aren't swearing

or saying whatever. The choices are swearing to God or swearing to whatever is equivalent to God for you. I swear to George Carlin. Okay. And just remember, it's Judge Hodgman's job to be funny. Do you swear to abide by Judge Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he presided over the name-changing court case in which Kate Winslet's husband changed his name to Ned Rock and Roll? I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Oh, I have tossed you guys the softest of softballs. I have tossed you guys the softest of softballs. That's a sport, right, Bailiff Tommy? I'm sorry.

I don't see a Bailiff Tommy here. I'm sorry, Bailiff Jesse. What's in a name? What's in a name, guys? That is a sport, Judge Hodgman. But what's in a name? Whether it's a sport or a bailiff or a child that doesn't exist, what's in a name? For an immediate summary judgment in your favor? Come on, which one of you guys is going to step up

to the softball's plate and take this one? I'm going to let my wife go first. That's not fair. Go ahead. Romeo and Juliet. You win. All right, guys. See you next time.

Good job. Wait, was that? Yeah. It was Romeo and Juliet. You win. All right, guys. See you next time. Good job. Wait, was that? Yeah. It was Romeo and Juliet, guys. I don't even know why I said guys. Josh, you were correct. And Jackie is clearly speechless. Wait, which Romeo and Juliet?

Shakespeare's or Baz Luhrmann's? Josh named the piece of culture that I referenced as I came into the courtroom. I knew that, but I don't understand what's going on. Oh, I'm sorry. You didn't understand the terms. Okay. So listen, this is the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm John Hodgman. I pretend to be a judge. You guys have willingly chosen to Skype in and talk to me. And at the beginning of each case, I will usually quote some movie or film or song, I guess movies and film are the same thing, TV show, some piece of popular culture. And if you can name what I was referencing, you win the case automatically. And I guess I didn't explain that

clearly enough to you guys. And also, it was far too easy. And it was all a bull roar anyway, just like your case is, because you tricked me, guys. You tricked me into hearing the case that was hypothetical. I didn't read closely enough. You guys are arguing over what to name a child that doesn't exist yet. Is that wrong? Or is that right? Josh? The child exists in our hearts. Uh-huh, Josh. I can already tell that you're trouble. Jackie, do you understand what Josh has gotten you into on this thing? Not particularly, no.

All right. Here's the thing. the thing. Josh has submitted to this court a dispute, a complaint, truly, that you are not going to name his child that doesn't exist yet, that you're going to bear for him, whatever he wants it to be named, and that your feelings don't matter. And I am going to hear both sides of the argument. And then I am going to name your baby. And this will be legally binding in most states and all commonwealths of the United States. So it's going to be fun. But first, let's start with the dispute josh and jackie normally i don't give last names because i don't like people to be tracked down by the uh rampant fans of this podcast uh but get ready for some paparazzi guys because i have to name your last names in order to hear this case

jackie your last name is kazel right yes and josh your last name is Kaisel, right? Yes. And Josh, your last name is Smart Guy? Smarty Pants? What is it? Smarty. Carrico. I have my codenames. Yes, Carrico. Carrico.

And you guys are married. But in the tradition of modernity, Jackie, you did not change your last name from Kaisel to Carrico, correct? That is correct. Because it is the year 2014, as of two days ago, per this recording. Now, Josh imagines, how long have you guys been married? Six months. Six months. Six months.

And how old are you both? I'm 36. I'm 32. Jackie, how long have you and Josh been in a relationship? For 10 years. 10 years. Almost 10 years, yeah. Your 10-year dating anniversary.

Yeah. Now that you are married, that, by the way, that dating anniversary goes into the garbage. No. Yes. No, it does not. It will forever be our anniversary. Don't you-

It's a garbage anniversary. It's a trash-aversary. It's in the incinerator. You ever hear the sound of a gavel before? There you go. Now, when is your wedding anniversary? June 22nd. June 22nd is my parents' wedding anniversary.

We planned it that way. Well, see, that's why that's such a great anniversary that you will always remember forever. And what was your dating anniversary that mattered so much to you 35 seconds ago? January 18th. January 18th. Oh, it's coming up. up. What was your first date? A cup of coffee at a diner in our town that we met. And what town was that? Columbia, Missouri.

And Columbia, is that not the capital of Missouri? No, sir. Jefferson City is the capital. Jefferson City is the capital. That one always gets me. I'm so sorry. So sorry, Missourians. I'll offer you an apology soon as well. And you live now where? Washington, D.C. You are under the impression that Jackie is going to have a child by you. And there is some discussion or some dispute, I should say, over what this child's last name will be. Can you explain to me what the dispute is? Even before I met Jackie, I had thought of how I didn't agree with the modern concept of a woman taking a man's last name. modern concept of a woman taking a man's last name. And I always thought it was a nicer idea to, instead of forcing one last name on the other to combine last names into a new

completely combined last name of the two couples. When I met Jackie, I, we realized we were serious. I brought the idea up with her, and I, in the spur of the moment, came up with a combination of our two last names. I took Kazel and Carrico, and I made Kazilico. I gave her this idea, and she laughed at it and said, no, that's a ridiculous last name and i i think it's really nice uh i've repeated it to our friends and it's it's caught on in some circles

well you can't you can't you can't you can't have the last name kazillico because that's that's the name of the capital of Missouri. We can't name ourselves after... No, it's illegal. It's illegal in Missouri to name yourself after the capital, Casilico M.O. That's from that musical. What was the... Damn Yankees?

Yeah, that's right. Damn Yankekees you're playing along now you get it okay i don't know show me hey no one looked that up uh kazillico was rejected by you, though, Jackie, for reasons that had nothing to do with the fake history of Missouri and Broadway that we that that Josh and I just improv together. Why not? Or. I feel so there's there's a couple of different reasons. Um, off the bat to me, it sounds like the name of a gas station. Yeah. Yeah. I can hear that. So besides that, um, I'm,

uh, proud of my lineage and I feel when you combine names, you're going to lose that traceability and that'll kind of make people actually go, wait, what happened here? Because it isn't a distinct enough change to show a clear delineation. It looks like an accident happened. What would be a distinctive enough change to show a clear delineation? That's where you lost me a little bit. I think when Josh submitted the case, he mentioned the possibility of bringing in a whole new last name. And that new last name that you suggested as a hypothetical Josh was? The initial example I gave, I believe I had read of a couple doing this in the newspaper and they had changed their name to something like the awesomes or something like that. And I jokingly made that as a suggestion.

And Jackie really seemed to like that idea. Unfortunately, awesome sounded good to her. Awesome sounded good to her. But I've since submitted other hypothetical things that have more to do with us in common. Well, you can't name yourselves awesome because those other people already did it. I thought that was your idea, first of all. And second of all, you can't name yourself awesome because that's the capital of Washington State. Awesome Washington. Mount Awesome, I mean.

I really thought that you were the one who came up with the idea of calling yourselves Josh and Jackie Awesome, but it was another couple in the newspaper? Yes. He didn't tell you, Jackie? couple in the newspaper? Yes. What? He didn't tell you, Jackie? No, I thought this was original. He didn't tell you that his awesome idea about renaming yourselves awesome was stolen from the newspaper, from the Cazillico Times? No, I was unaware of this. I was turned off at, uh, I was turned

off, uh, from the idea after the awesomes, the awesome show came on Hulu, but I did not know about the news article. Were you buzz marketing Tim and Eric there? Is that what was happening? What? Were you buzz marketing Tim and Eric's awesome Is that what was happening? What were you buzz marketing Tim and Eric's awesome show? Great job. Is that what you, was that what you were referring to? No, she's referring to a cartoon program that is on the,

on the website. Oh, I'm sorry. Seth Meyers cartoon actually. Oh, Oh, Oh, the awesomes about a family of, actually. Oh. Oh. The Awesomes.

About a family of superheroes, I believe. Oh, okay. I gotcha. Okay. Seth Meyers is The Awesomes renewed at Hulu. And that was why you did not want to be known as The Awesomes. I don't want to be known as The Awesomes because it'll get our kids beat up. Okay.

I'm a little confused. You never wanted to be named The Awesomes, Josh. No, I submitted the idea because I had read of this couple renaming themselves The Awesome. And then I submitted to her that we could pick a a new last name we could we could work on it together to find something that we have in common uh the examples that i because you know certain things that we have uh that we found in common with each other when we first met was a love for kurt vonnegut and a love for tom waits so I suggested the possibility of calling ourselves the Kilgores after Kilgore Trout.

Or why not the Swordfish Trombones, the awesome Tom Waits album. Just be the Swordfish Trombones. I'm sorry, I can't. No, I'll allow it. That's really piling affectation upon affectation, isn't it?

To name yourself after a Tom Waits album? Now, look, wait a minute. There is a lot of Tom Waits hate in vogue right now among the hipster Twitterati. And this is, you know, I don't want to call anybody out, but David Reese hates Tom Waits so much. And Tom Waits, particularly that album, Swordfish Trombones and Rain Dogs, meant so much to me when I was 13 years old that we got into a long fight about it. And then David reminded me, yeah, you were 13 years old. And I was like, hmm, maybe you got a point. And I went back and I listened to them again and they did not hold up for

me. The same thing happened to me with the arrested development albums in Gala Maduni. I don't feel good about this. I'm, I'm mad at David Reese for stealing my fond memories away from me and making me feel conflicted about Tom waits. And therefore I'm finding in favor of Josh, your baby's name will be I Hate David Reese.

I Hate David Reese Swordfish Trombones. I get back to that. That'll be his confirmation name anyway. Or her name. Let's get back to the real name issue. Now, Josh, you got a lot of funny ideas. I'll grant you that. And you got all kinds of reasons to get onto this podcast to talk about this hypothetical child and picking this hypothetical name and all this other stuff.

But I want to get serious for a second here. This conversation supposedly was about at some point you're going to have a child. And this is every couple that imagines having a child does have to face this choice. Unless one of you gives up your last name and feels good about that, which is a choice that people make, you guys are both going to have two different last names for the rest of your lives till death do you part. And this child is going to have to have some kind of name. And this is a topic of concern and debate. Now, the most common resolution among enlightened people here in Park Slope is to hyphenate. That is to say, this is my daughter, Julia Vonnegut-Weitz, where the Vonnegut-Weitz is, or whatever.

Do you want to have a hyphenated baby name, Jackie? Yes. Yes, I do. You do. I do. And you have no problem with that. No, I do. You do. I do. And you have no problem with that. No, I love it. And you would want it to have a hyphenate, Kaisel Carrico or Carrico Kaisel?

Yes. All right. This seems like a solution to me, Josh. What's the problem? Well, George Carlin certainly had his opinion on hyphenated names. Hyphenated names tend to – it's going to stretch out the poor child. I mean, Kazel Carrico or Carrico Kazel, both of us already have difficult enough last names as it is to hyphenate and add them together to a longer, more difficult to handle last name, I don't think is fair.

And eventually our son or child might meet someone, and what if they have a hyphenated last name? Our son or child? Is that what you said? Our son or other kind of child. Yeah. So when you were out there in the wilderness wearing your Davy Crockett hat

as a thinking long before you ever met Jackie, thinking on how a liberated modern woman shouldn't change her name, but you should come up with some kind of new name. And we would both change our names. You would both change your names. And me in the middle. But you understand Jackie is proud of her name.

Certainly. You mentioned you were proud of your lineage. Jackie, may I ask, what is the origin of the name? It's Czechoslovakian. I have something else to add to this. Please. Thank you. The other thing is I've started my professional career with my current last name. Jackie, hang on one second. I'm sorry to interrupt you. And I really,

I want to hear your full story. But before you do, I want to give Josh some homework. Josh. Yes, sir. You've had a lot of funny hypothetical ideas, but this is going to come down to it now. Jackie is happy with her last name, and she has produced a compromise, a hyphenate compromise that sounds reasonable to most humans. If you want to propose either a new name or a portmanteau name, combining both of your names, and you want this to be the one that you're proposing, you want me to rule on, and it's going to be sincere and not something you got out of the newspaper and not a Tom Waits album. You got to take some, take a few moments now, or even if it is the swordfish trombones, take a few moments now to settle on the name that you are proposing for

reels. Okay. Now I'm going to talk to Jack. You go do that. Take a piece of paper right now, Jackie. Thank you. Um, you were saying, uh, yes. So I started my profession with my last name, and I have the handle JackieKazel across various social media, including Twitter, GitHub, and that. Anytime I open up an account, it's JackieKazel. I don't think I could ever get rid of that because I already have a certain kind of personal branding associated with it. Sure. And with respect to our daughter or child.

Well played. Thank you. Well played. has a name, Swordfish Trombone, for a last name, and we're stopped in customs. Yeah. How are we going to explain that this is not a terrible joke? I think Josh is suggesting that you'll also change your last name to Swordfish Trombone. I believe that is my personal preference, although I understand professionally, and I have no desire especially for her to change her name from Kaisel. I think we can have a separate name for our home life, a separate name for the name we put on our Christmas cards.

This year was the first year we did Christmas cards, and it was Merry Christmas from Jackie Kaisel and Josh Carrico. This is our first year as a wedded couple, and we have these two separate names, Josh Carrico. This is our first year as a wedded couple, and we have these two separate names, and soon we'll have a child or two, a son or daughter. As soon as you decide how many, sir. You don't have to rush into it. When you decide how many children you're going to have, you can tell Jackie.

As we decide. I don't know why I'm suddenly forcing children on her. As soon as we have our children, our child, we can put Merry Christmas from and have the swordfish trombones. The swordfish trombones. How lovely would that be on a car? So you're so like and like and, there are Jackie, there are, and this is one of those things where it's sadly it's women face this far more commonly than men,

but there are women who choose to keep their birth name in every aspect of their lives, but not their married lives. Why is that not acceptable to you? So, okay. Let me, let me. What this comes down to is whether you were to take on an alternate identity within the family as Jackie Carrico or Jackie Swordfish Trombones or Kizila Calliope or whatever this guy comes up with. It was very lovable, by the way, you made a good choice to marry him, I think. Thank you. But why not have a dual identity similar to what Josh is saying? He clearly, Josh,

would you be comfortable being Josh Carrico? What do you do in the world aside from come up with ideas? I'm a baker. You're a baker. So down around the baker, your good old Joshy C, Mr. Carrico himself. But at home, would you be Josh, would you be equally happy being Josh Carrico at the bakery and Josh Swordfish Trombones at home? I would. I don't have the—

Yes or no. Is that acceptable to you? Yes, very much. Would you be happy enough being Josh Carrico at the bakery and Josh Kazel at home? That would—Kazel—see, I'm not asking her to take my name i have not i have not asked her to take the name carrico and i would i would not enjoy being a casel so it's it would be okay to come up to to take as an alternate family identity last name a essentially a family name that is the equivalent

of getting a full face tattoo of Tom Waits on the back of your neck. Because it's a cool, funny thing to do. But it would not be acceptable for you to take your beloved wife's own name in the family.

I would rather be Kazillico. I understand. Jackie, would you, I may have already asked this question, but just for the record, would you feel comfortable as a resolution being Jackie Kazill in every part of your life, but on your Christmas cards and at home, and as a name given forward to your child, would you change your name to Carrico or another crazy thing of your husband's choosing? Is that okay with you? I'm going to say I viewed the hyphenated version of our name as sort of the shared kind of married home life version. But I would not take just Carrico, and I would not take something my husband made up.

And would you take Kazel Carrico as your name? Or Carrico Kazel as your name, hyphenated? Yes. And if I may, I just want to clarify something, a comment that Josh made earlier about the hyphenation being too long and too confusing. I just want to say Kaisel is one syllable. It's clean. Two syllables. Kaisel. Kaisel. Okay, never mind.

Scratch that. It's definitely two syllables. Can we stipulate that it's two syllables? It's only been her name for 32 years. We're done. We're done. I quit. As an expert in Czech naming conventions, I can tell you that that is certainly two syllables. So what's the problem with Casel Carrico? I just think it's too much.

Which order does it go in? Is it Casel Carrico? I just think it's too much. I think it's – and which order does it go in? Is it Kazel Carrico or is it Carrico-Kazel? We will debate that, unfortunately, for too long. We can settle that very easily and flip a coin. You guys are equals. You know, actually, I do want to say that one of my friends said that Casel Carrico is a little bit more musical. It certainly is musical as Casilico. I would like to say that the initial compromise...

Casilico sounds like a musical instrument. It's a gas station. I'm sorry. It is a gas station. No, it's like a rare woodwind. You don't see it played very often. It's a larger version of the Kazako. You wouldn't have heard of it. It's Slovak. And if I may, Your Honor, the combination of Kaziliko gives her all of the letters of her last name and only three of mine. I'm dropping both of my R's.

I'm dropping my C. You're dropping everything that makes your name sound like what it is, which I presume is Italian? Carrico? That's my understanding, yes. But you don't know and you don't care. We're from Kentucky. There's no roots to the old world in my family, unfortunately. Okay, I got you.

So I'm going to bring up another problem with Cazillico. And that is in Eastern Slavic countries or Eastern, sorry, Eastern European countries, women, when saying what their last name is, will add ova to the end of it. And parts of my family, when visiting, would probably ask me if I was stupid. Because I messed up adding ova to kazillico. Whereas if you're kazel, they won't say why are you karakova or why are you kazillicova or kazilliva?

You're talking about your family visiting from the old world? Yes. Which is yet to happen. No, no, no. If we went there. If we went there. If you went there, don't you think it's more likely, is your family very traditional? Is your Czech family very traditional? I think they understand Americans and what Americans do. If they are traditional, wouldn't they be a little bit more confused by why you simply

didn't take his name as opposed to why you didn't add Ova to the crazy made-up Calliope name that he came up with? Well, see, then I would only have one thing to explain, not two. All right. Josh, are you still working on your final your final submission of either made up or, or, or portmanteau name that you're going to, that you're going to present to your wife on my,

on, in my courtroom? I have you settled on something. I do have one. Um, I, I have brought up the fact, I'm sorry.

It can be one that you've already mentioned, but I want you to settle down on the name that you want. I want you to settle down on the name that you want for your child's last name and how that name is going to be distributed among the three of you. Because what this comes down to ultimately is not, there isn't a lot of compromise here.

People love their names. They're going to make a big sacrifice or they're not. So if you've got the final thing, I don't want to hear any more jokes, hypotheses, maybe this, maybe that. I want you to think for a minute and come up with the name. It could be Kazilico, could be Carico, could be

Kazil Carico, Carico Kazil, Kazilicalicalicalicalaca, Swordfish Trombones, Rain Dogs, Frank's Wild Years, Blue Valentine, Nighthawks of the Banner, The Black Rider.

It could just be a string of the words that you can't say on television. Yeah, George Carlin, Carlinico, whatever it is. Settle down. You think about that. I'm going to ask Jackie what I think is be the last question before you make your proposition. So let's go.

Do it right. Jackie, I understand all your arguments. You're an independent person who has a name that is connected to a family that she cares about. has a name that is connected to a family that she cares about. Kaisel, do I understand correctly that your preference would be to be Jackie Kaisel at home and abroad and that your child be named child name to be determined next podcast Kaisel Carrico or Carrico Kaisel. I'm willing to do Kaisel Carrico for family life also, but obviously around.

Yes. But, but not on my legal paperwork. Just in, in the, in the, in the vulgar talk around town. Yes.

When it comes, when it comes to legality, you still want to be Jackie Kaisel. Full stop. Yes. What about full stop? That's a good name. Full stop. No,

no. Okay. No. When your child goes forth into the world and finds a husband or spouse, how are the, how are they going to divvy the names up then? This is the question that I have with all these hyphenated names. It just goes on and on and on. That is a great question.

And I think it would be up to the child to make that decision. I would hope that we could have that conversation as a family and they would come to their senses and drop Carrico and then add their, their spouses or significant other's name. Wow. Do you have a deal with that, your honor? Yeah.

It sounds like someone wants to come to her senses and drop Carrico. Josh, let's say you had it your way, and you named your child Tom Waits Cazillico, and somehow this prevented him from being beaten up. And I don't see how, but let's just say, hypothetically, a force field has developed to protect him from that terrible name. And he grows up and then he says, you know what, I am going to marry a person. And we both have different last names. And I'm going to make up a whole new name of my own. And that name is going to be Redbone after my favorite musician, Leon Redbone. How would you feel about that?

If, if his spouse agreed with it, I would be very happy with that. Oh, you like, you like Leon Redbone, but only if it's a, he,

again, I think that was the judges. Yeah. Tom, Tom waits. He said, child's a he again. I think that was the judge's yeah, Tom waits. He said his child's name was Tom, so I'm assuming that's a boy. Josh only deals in a realm, as you probably figured out after 10 years, he only deals in a

realm of fanciful hypotheses that he turns over in his head during the kneading hours at the bakery. It's a long night, your honor. You are so, so right.

You're so right. Yeah. I've known some bakers and they get schemes. You work overnights, right? Yes. Yes, your honor.

Yeah. You guys, you get all kinds of schemes. With a podcast in my ear and wishful thinking in my brain. Yeah. You've got all kinds of ideas. His constant answer to everything is maybe. All right.

Not tonight. Possibly. Not on this podcast. All right, Josh. You've heard her solution. Her solution is Jacqueline, I presume. Is that correct? Jacqueline Kaysil.

What's your middle name? Do you have one? Yes. It's Liddy. Liddy. Jacqueline Liddy Kaysil. Professionally and on all of her legal documents going forward, however, all of her legal documents going forward. However,

Christmas cards in the vulgar talk about town and the streets of Cazillico, Merry Christmas from the Casel Caracos, specifically Josh Casel Caraco. Is that, is that important to this compromise? The order? No, no, no.

I'm talking to Jackie. Is this compromise also that Josh should go by Kazel Carrico in the family? As well as you and the child? Yeah. I mean, otherwise, we're going to have a Christmas card that says Jackie and child and possibly other child, Kazel Carrico and Josh Carrico. Right. Right.

So the Kazel Carrico's and Josh Kazel Carrico and Jackie Kazel Carrico in home and about town and the child's legal name will be child to be named later. Kazel Carrico. Correct. Do I understand your position properly? Yes. All right, Josh, be named later, Kazel Carrico, correct? Do I understand your position properly? Yes.

All right. Josh, what's your proposal? What's the name that's going to change this conversation? Truly, think, what is the name that you want your child to have? I have become quite fond of Kaziliko. I honestly have. But your wife has already rejected this name. Am I wrong about that? This isn't the first time you've heard Kaziliko, is it, Jackie? No.

And do you accept that name or do you reject it? Oh, I believe you said it sounds like a gas station. I think we did a whole run about how it sounded like different things. Your Honor, we received Christmas cards this year to the Kazilicos. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How did you manage that? Whoa, whoa, whoa. We received one

and he said cards, that is plural, so he is lying in court right there. You heard it. Who was it who addressed their Christmas card to you, the Kazilikos? A high school friend of Jackie's that we became close to up here. Our family and we became close with their family. And they sent us a Christmas card

to the Cozillicos because this debate has been going on for quite a while, Your Honor, and it got brought up in a friendly setting and it has some support amongst our people. It is a grassroots movement in its favor? Among whom? I think so.

I can. Well, obviously, the the family that did send us that card. Support the name after they sent us that card. I don't know if I would call our friends anymore. Is that true? Is that true? Do you feel that strongly about it? No. Is that a joke? Is that a joke that you can't appreciate? Because clearly they're sending it to you in jest.

I'm not sure that Josh understands that they're making a friendly joke with you guys. And playing a game. I think Josh might have flower fever. You know what I mean? I think he inhaled a little bit too much cornstarch down at the bakery. But you understand that they're just being friendly, right? They're just having some fun, right? Yes. All right.

So, Josh, but Kazilico is where you take your stand? Yes, Your Honor. All right. Well, you have the courage of your convictions. I am going to go back into my chambers, which I am now going to call my gazebadorium, and think this over, and in a few moments I'll have my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Josh, how are you feeling?

Very, very distraught. I don't want you to engage in self-harm or anything. No, no, we'll be, we'll be, we'll be fine. We'll be fine.

I'm just not going to like what I have to hear when this, this, uh, this phone call in, what are you expecting to hear? A lot of in your faces and, um, very,

very rude talking. Jackie, how are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. Yeah, it sounds like it. Why are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. Yeah. It sounds like it. Why are you feeling so good? Because going into this, uh, there was a lot of smack talk from Josh about how I was gonna, I was gonna lose. And I'm not saying I've won. I'm not, I'm not going there,

but I feel pretty, uh, pretty confident. Did you know that Kate Winslet's husband's name is Ned Rock and Roll? I was aware of that, yes. I like that name. Yeah, you would. We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that

very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in. The Rohan duck, made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town?

Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com. We're back on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. You may be seated. So obviously there's no elegant solution, and there never has been in the history of people getting married, the only elegant solution, that is to say, simple and understandable and continuable solution,

generation over generation, was for the woman to take the husband's name, or I guess conceivably the man take the wife, but for someone to give up their parentage and become a member of another family, which is offensive. And not, as you figure it out in your brain pan, as you wandered through your life long before meeting your bride, Josh, you figure that out. It's not cool. You can't do that. You know, my and other solutions have been equally inelegant. You know, there is, of course, the custom in Spanish-speaking countries, traditionally of giving a given name, and then the father's name comes next, and then the mother's name comes last, right?

But on most legal documents, it's the father's name that takes precedence. And then when that person gets married, presumably it's the paternal name that gets added to the next child, and so on and so on. It's complicated. How do you meld people together in the way that is symbolized by the marriage itself? And then reified in the personage of a little – I can't believe I've run out of Tom Waits references to make here. A little. Just go. Little Tommy Down by Law. Esoteric.

Some people will get that one. In my family, I became married to a woman who did not change her last name because neither of us wanted her to. She is the person that I got married to, first and last name. That's who she is. And then we went and had human children. And a decision was made that our children would have the last name of my last name. I guess, well, because it would get them better seats at restaurants, basically. That's what it comes down to.

But since then, it's weird, because she's essentially exiled from our family. And when we make train or airplane reservations, because we're world travelers, you know, it's always John Hodgman, Hodgmina Hodgman, Hodgmanillo Hodgman. And then this other woman that's riding along with us. Probably, you know, I sympathize with you. You don't want to have your child named Swordfish Trombones or have another name when you're traveling internationally, which it sounds like you would like to do someday. Because that child, they're going to look at you funny. And all of a sudden, Liddy Rain Dogs is going to be taken away from you and put in a Czech prison camp for orphans. It happens. Combining names, that is to take the Casilico solution, doesn't totally solve the problem.

Because, honestly, Casilico doesn't sound to my ear any less wordy than Casel Carico or Carico Casel. And there is an elegant solution, which is to create a brand new name, the awesomes, right? Or whatever. And there are people who do both and I respect their decisions. Creating a new, new name though,

really scrapes against narcissism to me because the whole point of family names is rightly or wrongly to bind us, sometimes unwillingly, to our families and their history. Names are arbitrary. There's something about us that we don't control. Even, never mind our last name, our first name is given to us by strangers, people who don't know us and we don't know them. And they represent, in that sense, not just the history of your family, but there are certain areas of life that you have

no control over. You can't mold life precisely to your own fantasy world that you come up with while you're kneading dough in the bakery at two o'clock in the morning. That said, I don't judge people who change their first names or last names. People make new lives for themselves. And I think that it's perfectly reasonable if both spouses are amenable to creating a combined name or to come up with a brand new name together. But for that to work, they both have to be amenable. Josh clearly does not give a hoot about the Kentucky Caracos and their long legacy. But unfortunately for the Cazillico scheme or the Swordfish Trombone scheme, Jackie cares about her family name. And you can't force someone to unlike their name or feel disconnected from their name

or to like a made-up name any more than you can force your wife to watch The Third Man, even after well, what year is it? 15 years of marriage in 2014 and another 10 years of dating, a garbage anniversary that I don't even acknowledge anymore. So, since there is no elegant solution, and there is no agreement on an invented name or a combined name, you have to simply embrace the inelegance. You have to hyphenate. I would even say, don't even, I hate the hyphen.

I love the name, Kazel Carrico. I even like Carrico Kazel. I love all those names. Lovely, long names are fantastic. names, lovely, long names are fantastic. I hate the hyphen because the hyphen just feels, I don't know, typographically wrong. It's worse than anything. I would just say make it John Hodgman, Kazel Carrico, whether it's a boy or a girl. Just have those four names sit there. And yeah, it's a mouthful. But that's what names are. It is what it is.

Marriages are two people coming together and forcing their different lives together. And their different histories and their different backgrounds together. And that's a mouthful too. acknowledges that you are both equal human beings who are smashing up their lives together and forcing a child onto the world who's going to bear their name forward. You have to both get a say, whether it's Kazel Karako or Karako Kazel, whether you choose to hyphenate or not, both of those names are the name because you both have to leave your mark. That's the reason you have kids, to leave some mark on the world as evidence that you existed after death erases all memory of you. And then as for what your kid does later on, he or she can make up her own name or triple hyphenate or

quadruple hyphenate. name or a simple composite last name. You guys can flip a coin as to whether or not Carrico or Kazel comes first. I will make one exception. On Christmas cards, which are not legally binding documents, Kazilico will be accepted as both a to and from name because it amuses me. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Jackie, how do you feel? I feel good. I feel good. I feel bad that Josh is crying right now and he can't get up to get a tissue. But otherwise, I feel good. I do want to point out, there was one thing that was not said during that. And that is, Josh has a couple hundred years of family history behind his name. Josh has a couple hundred years of family history behind his name also. And there is a family reunion every year in Kentucky where all the Caracos get together. Yeah, but there's a difference, which is, I don't even know if Josh is still there. I'm here. But like, if that mattered to Josh, he would have said it. I'm going to go bake some bread. Right, Josh?

You'd love that, right? I would be fine with that. You would be fine with it. That's fair enough. You'd be fine. People, different things are more meaningful to other people. You clearly care about sort of lineage and heritage a little bit more than Josh does. And so I think it's appropriate that you both give your names to this child.

Hey, what about the convention of, no, I don't think you want to do this. There's another solution where you can, and I think it's a Southern tradition, though I could be wrong, of naming the first child, first name is the mother's birth name last name is the father's last name so just casel carrico how about that and then if you have another child i don't know what you do then no i like my original my original ruling is best i like that you're you're ruling. While it hurts me deeply, it does point out that Jackie is inamenable and ineloquent. Well, not amenable, right, because she doesn't agree with your idea. There's no judgment in that.

Some people are amenable to certain ideas. Some aren't. But why did you say ineloquent? You said the Casel Carrico was ineloquent. I may have said inelegant is what I meant to say. Oh. Kazel Kariko or Kariko Kazel is something of a mouthful. It is somewhat inelegant. But I think you're both eloquent and elegant young people. And I wish you the very best.

Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because yes listening is mandatory the jv club with janet varney is available every thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts thank you and remember no running in the halls if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o ah we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh

and you're on the go Judge Hodgman. Oh, hi, Jesse. You have a guest in the chamber. Yeah, it's my friend, Kurt Braunohler, and your friend, too. Yeah. Hi, Kurt Braunohler, host of The K.O.L. That is correct. A great podcast that you should listen to.

Now, Kurt, I'm always self-conscious about this. I'm pronouncing it right. Kurt Brown Oler, right? Yes. You're one of the few people who have ever pronounced my name correctly in my entire life. And that's because your dad's name was Kurt Brown Sr. And your mom's name was Maria Oler. Yes, that is correct. And they just, it was one of the early kind of, uh, Yes, that is correct. And they just it was one of the early kind of mixing of names. And I and I think it's an argument for not doing that. No, that that is not true. That is a great that's just your great name. That's my great name. I believe it means Fetcher of Brown Things in German, but I'm not sure because I've never really looked into it. Now, I only bring it up because we were just discussing with a couple in the main case, the issue of whether or not to combine their names and then give it to their child.

You see what I mean? Ooh, I hope you came down on no combination. In their case, I did because it was not a consensual situation. You know what I mean? Yes. This guy was trying to force his dumb made-up name on this poor woman. Basically what it came down to. It's a bold move.

Yeah. All right. So you are not married. I am not. If you were to marry and to have a child, would you hyphenate your child's names? I would hyphenate his first name, but leave the last name. So it would be like Brian Tom Brown Roller. I like it.

Good. I wish you had been the host of this podcast. It would have been done a lot faster. But now we're going to clear the docket. We have some cases that have come in over the transom. I'm very excited. And Jesse and you and I are going to talk about it and come to a solution. Thank God. Did you guys know that I once gave a married couple a new surname at their request?

Did you really? We used to do a bit on Jordan Jesse Go called Naming Things. I don't remember if it had a name, this bit. It was the one bit you could never name. if it had a name, this bit. It was the one bit you could never name. We were often joined by our friend Nick Hornby, the author and now screenwriter,

and we would name things on behalf of people. We named, I believe it was a miniature horse. Nick named it Aretha. And the only contingency was you could come to us for the name of something, but you had to, uh, accept our decision no matter what it was. And this couple came to us, they were getting married, they wanted to take a new last name, uh, rather than, uh, one or the other of their last names, or hyphenation. or hyphenation, and we decided that they would be named the Rockets, R-O-C-K, I believe we decided on I-T-T was how it would be spelled, like Herbie Hancock with an extra T.

And we later found out when they showed up at MaxFunCon that they had not taken our suggestion and had betrayed our decision. And it still bothers me to this day. Yeah, because it was a joke. It was a joke. It was a joke on you and on life. They realized they wanted to stop. They wanted to stop being jokers. They started wanting to be real people who had connections to real people in the world.

They didn't want to dream up some crazy thing. They realized that some crazy idea they had in the bakery at 2 a.m. Not how they want to live their whole lives. Sorry if I still have beauty in my heart, guys. Apology not accepted. Let's do the docket. It's 2014. Let that beauty die. Here's something from John. I've been putting on an improv comedy game show for the past several months.

It's similar in nature to Kurt Braunohler's TV show, Bunk. What? My show is named Wit. I've borrowed the game Top That Lie from the show Bunk, as well as the concept. Due to the show being off the air, I feel it's okay for me to present this show to the public. Is that true? Now, before you say anything, before you say anything, Kurt, this is part of the reason why I invited you over here. Sorry, I enjoy your company. I'll have you by my chambers for a cup of tea any day. But I did want you to weigh in on this. Before you weigh in, I'm going to read to you my notes precisely underneath this docket item when I looked it over today. The words I wrote were simply,

wrong, make up your own games. I mean, what is this guy? Is this guy laboofing me? He's seems like he's laboofing you and I think the only way for him to further laboof you would be if he hired a skywriter to write in the sky, how do I land? Which is what you hired a skywriter to write in the sky.

And which is what Shia Laboof did yesterday. But he said, I'm so sorry, Daniel Klaus. Yeah, that was a quadruple laboof. Yeah, that was a quadruple laboof. The thing that really bugged me about this guy attempting to buzz market what I presume is a stage show. I'm assuming. That borrows one game from your show as well as the whole concept of your show. Is that his justification is that because that show isn't on the air anymore,

I get it. I get to have it. That to me, it just seemed like that was adding insult to injury. I think it's almost like saying, well, that book is already written, so I'm just going to steal that book. Yeah. Yeah, it's already been done. Yeah, it's already been done. Already been. Yeah, it's already been published. It's out there.

I mean, you have to you have to realize, though, there's two sides to this. One is the game was created by this guy, Ethan Berlin and Eric Bryant, these two guys. And so it's their thing. You know, so you can't just take somebody's thing. But on the other side side this is just an improv show so there is no monetary gain whatsoever well and probably a limited number of people will ever see it yeah well i i think you raise a good point which is that you would you would need to to present this thing publicly.

Someone owns it. It's not just a rightness issue. It's a legal issue. You might be putting yourself in legal jeopardy if you are putting something on stage and charging money, no matter how slim that $2 entry is, particularly if you're using games from the show. So this is just word of warning to you. I mean, that's a crazy thing

to actually take one of the games we created. Like, that's, to me, like an extra step, an extra kick in the teeth, you know? The whole idea, I mean, we can see there's been improv game shows for a very long time. You know, we weren't new in that regard. But to take an actual specific game, which we wrote, is funny to me. I mean, I feel like it's not correct.

So I thank you, Kurt. I kind of wanted to bring you in because it's always a pleasure to talk to you. And I thought maybe you would have a different point of view. Like, oh, no, I think that's great. And the guys who created this probably would love it and they want to give this guy a million dollars. And I don't want to rob him of that chance to make a million dollars. But now that I've spoken to you.

I think that they should send 10% of all net proceeds to Ethan Berlin and Eric Bryant. of all net proceeds to ethan berlin and eric bryan and so they could expect a check for like three dollars and fifty cents in a year i don't think that that's the issue at all and i only amend now that i've spoken to you i amend my initial notes with only a couple of words wrong stands i will add you may be putting yourself at legal jeopardy. In legal jeopardy. I mean, you know. But that's not the reason to continue

with my initial note, which is make up your own games. You've got to make up your own games in the world. To play, to present. You have to make your own thing. You're not going to succeed by doing someone else's thing on stage,

no matter how much fun it seems to be. Make your own thing. That's how you get things done. Do you disagree, Kurt? Well, I agree that you should make up your own gains. And on the other hand... I'm speaking in the metaphysical sense. Of course.

In the larger, in the broader sense. But on the other hand. But on the other hand, if we consider that this guy is an improviser, he's following the rule of yes and. He just wants somebody to be like, yes, of course, do that. And I'll come and I'll play it. I'll play that game with you. You know, so he's, I mean, I can see he's just making some giggles for a few people.

I think it's pretty much pretty fine. Yeah, no, no, look. You know, I'm really, I'm back and forth with it. Yeah, look. I like that you take a legal stance on it though. Well, I'm a former professional literary agent and, you know, one of the reasons that I encourage people to create their own thing is if

you take something that's too close you might be putting yourself in legal jeopardy i don't know i don't know your friends who made up this game i don't know what kind of people they are but out of an abundance of caution i have to advise john be careful also i want to say to john congratulations you just heard you just heard kurt brownler promise to come and be on your show. That's great, Kurt. Thank you. Oh, no. Oh, no.

But also the gentlemen who create this show, Ethan, he's a gangster, and Eric is a karate expert. So they're very violent, as you can tell probably by the tone of what Bunk was. They're incredibly violent and angry men. So you should look out. I think what John meant to express is that we all love Bunk and we all love you. Oh, well, it is a form of flattery. I think imitation is the highest form, right? Something or other. Yeah. Imitation is the highest form, right? Something or other. Yeah. Imitation is the highest form of birthday.

Is that it? Is that the saying? Imitation is the highest form of flattery, but it only really helps the person being flattered. In other words, if you just imitate things, I mean, obviously you might be young, you're honing your chops, you're trying things out. I don't think anyone has a problem. No one's calling you a plagiarist, John. Trying things out on stage, that's fine.

But the way you're going to move forward in life, make up your own games, whatever they are. You also stay out of illegal hot water. That's a wise lesson. I hope he learned it. Here's something from Melissa. The issue is between my son, age 15, and myself. The school he attends allows only nut-free foods for lunch. I respect that rule and buy lunch items that are labeled nut-free, reserving them for school lunches only.

We have other snacks that the kids can eat at home after school, and I ask them to keep their paws off the nut-free stuff. I will sometimes buy nut-free pudding cups for lunches. While my son acknowledges their deliciousness, he says they're gross to look at and gross to watch people eat. And for this reason, he wants to only eat pudding cups at home. He argues that since he's already been allotted a pudding cup for the day, why can't he have it in the comfort of his own home? I say we reserve the pudding cups for the purpose of school lunches. At this point, I've resorted to hiding the pudding cups and providing one to his little sister in secret on her way out the door each morning.

Judge Hodgman, should my son be allowed to eat his pudding cup when he wishes? Kurt, I'm just going to read to you what my notes were on this. It was my gut reaction. I think I'm going to stand by it. And then you can tell me if you think I'm right or wrong. Okay. My opinion is now I don't know what your pudding cup budget is. There are so few pleasures in life that we get to enjoy before we mash up our

last name with someone else and give it to a kid and then die. Just let your son eat those pudding cups. If he wants to eat them at home, let him eat at home. It means he can't eat it at school. That's all. He's not asking you to buy double cups, but your kid enjoys pudding cup when he wants to enjoy his pudding cup. What do you think, Kurt?

Please, for the love of God, let that child eat a pudding cup when he wants to enjoy his pudding cup what do you think kurt please for the love of god let that child eat a pudding cup his life is so regulated it's out it's already going to a nut-free school oh god let him buy him extra pudding cups jesus christ his entire pedagogical experience is already interwoven with panic and anxiety. Oh, I feel so bad for him. Cup it up, kid. Cup it up. I want to start a fund to buy that kid 1,000 pudding cups and have them mailed to this woman. And there's nothing you can do. If you have 1,000 pudding cups, you can't hide those. It's too many to hide.

They're going to be everywhere. He's going to be able to have as many pudding cups as he wants. He's going to see them. He's going to see those nut-free cups. When is pudding ever nut-free? What nut pudding is out there? You don't enjoy Jell-O butterscotch pecan puddings?

I should really pick some up. Actually, pecan is a nut. It's a tree nut. It's not a ground nut. Not a legume. How do our bodies know?

You know how there's allergies? There's only allergies to usually to tree nuts, right? How does your body know whether it grows on a tree or in the ground? I think it knows. I think it can tell the difference when your throat swells up and closes and you die. Oh, is that it? Okay. Yeah.

Thanks for answering that, is that it? Okay. Yeah. Thanks for answering that. Clearing that up for me. Kurt, what a pleasure to have you with us here on the docket for this cameo appearance. Is there anything... Thank you so much.

Anything going on? Jesse mentioned Hot Tub with Kurt and Kristen, which is a weekly... Weekly? Weekly. Incredible live comedy show in Los Angeles.

And when does this come out? It'll come out in, what, two weeks? Two weeks from yesterday? I would say that I'll also be at Johnny D's in Somerville, Mass. on January 23rd. The city of Somerville, Massachusetts? That is correct. I know that club well. It's fantastic.

Oh, good. I'm looking forward to it. And then right after that, the 24th and the 25th in Providence, Rhode Island at the Comedy Connection. Providence is also a great town. And then I'll be in London

at the Soho Theater. Whoa, from New England to Old England with Kurt Kramler, everybody. May I just mention that there may or may not still be one or more of the 500 Ragnarok

survival kits that I minted in a mountain in Colorado, including my extended DVD of my one-man show Ragnarok from last year, plus survival mayonnaise, plus a beautiful engraved urine flask,

engraved with the word urine, plus my consciousness downloaded onto a custom thumb drive, plus a sample of my mustache DNA in a little glass vial that I personally put in there with my own hands, plus a completely non-ironic, non-joke, unisex men and women's fragrance called Sperm Whale by John Hodgman. Did you know about this, Kurt? I did not, but I'm really excited about it.

It could be yours for a reasonable price. You go to johnhodgman.com slash greenfield. johnhodgman.com slash greenfield. Tell me the name of your album again, because it slips my mind because I'm a moron and a monster. How Do I Land? How Do I Land? Of course, what Jesse was just talking about, which everyone should buy. Jesse, what do you got going on?

Well, Judge Hodgman, I've got two or three big shows. Two in San Francisco at SF Sketch Fest in the first week of February. One is a Jordan Jesse Go show at the Eureka Theater. One is a tribute to the great Mal Sharp of Coil and Sharp. I'll be alongside James Richmuth of Casper Hauser and Matt Besser and Matt Walsh of the Upright Citizens Brigade talking about how great Mal Sharp of Coil and Sharp. I'll be alongside James Richmuth of Casper Hauser and Matt Besser and Matt Walsh of the Upright Citizens Brigade

talking about how great Mal is. He's a real San Francisco legend. And if you've never heard of Coil and Sharp, download a couple episodes of the Coil and Sharp podcast, one of the first MaxFun podcasts, and listen to them and then come out to that show. And Jordan and I will be doing a Jordan Jesse Goh recording from the officers mess of the battleship USS Iowa in San Pedro,

California at the port of Los Angeles. You can get your tickets now in 100% of the proceeds of that show. Go to swords to plowshares, which is an organization that provides direct veterans services and training in the San Francisco Bay Area that I have a deep personal connection to and is a really, really wonderful organization. And, you know, it's a freaking battleship that we're going to be doing our comedy podcast on. So, yeah, you can find all that information at MaximumFun.org. I think technically it's a Montana-class freaking battleship. That's true.

That's a good point. But, you know, like a lot of podcasts have done their shows on, say, frigates. Yeah. And I say nuts to your frigate. Yeah. Tree nuts and ground nuts to your frigates. This week's show was named by Connor McGee. Thanks to Connor.

If you want to name an upcoming episode of Judge John Hodgman, like us on Facebook. Just search for Judge John Hodgman or follow me or the judge on Twitter. I'm at Jesse Thorne. Judge Hodgman is at Hodgman. H-O-D-G-M-A-N. Our show is edited by Mark McConville and produced by Julia Smith. Thanks, Julia. And supported by your donations at MaximumFun.org slash donate. Thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It's still okay to drink Moxie, but for how much longer, I don't know. Get back to me, Moxie.

much longer. I don't know. Get back to me, Moxie. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfun.org and our Facebook group at

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