Judge John Hodgman - Nap Judgment

Episode Date: August 9, 2017

Ann files suit against her husband, Stephen. When they travel, Ann wants to keep a regular sleeping schedule to avoid grogginess. But, Stephen thinks the point of vacation is to relax! He wants the flexibility to sleep in. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? With Summertime Funtime Bailiff Monte Belmonte! Thank you to Stephen Lipenta for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm summertime fun time guest bailiff Monty Belmonte filling in for Jesse Thorne. This week, nap judgment. Anne files suit against her husband, Stephen. When they travel, Anne wants to keep a regular sleeping schedule to avoid grogginess. But Stephen thinks the point of vacation is to relax. He wants the flexibility to sleep his whole vacation away. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's ready to hit the sack?

Only one man can decide. Please rise and shine. As Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. The whole world is doing it wrong, and I can't not correct them. But there's too many of you, more than I can save. And when I torch the place and cover up my face, that will make me judge. Summertime, fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte, please swear the litigants in. Ann and Stephen,

please rise and raise your right hands. Wipe the sleep out of your eyes. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you hypnos, the Greek god of sleep, Rip Van Winkle,

nap activist Ariana Huffington, or whomever? I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that I think I know no other man who prioritizes sleeping and napping more than the honorable judge? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Thank you very much, Monty Belmonte. The litigants may be seated. I'm here again in the studios of WERU with guest engineer Joel Mann. Hello, Joel. Hello, Judge. They are in Orland, Maine, and of course, talking to Summertime Funtime guest Bailiff Monty Belmonte at WRSI, the river in my home Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Northampton, Massachusetts specifically. Hello, Monty. Hello. Now, Ann and Stephen, it is nice to meet you virtually. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, I trust that both of you will be able to name the piece of culture that I referenced as Enter the Courtroom. Anne, why don't you guess first? I did not recognize it, so I'm going with my fake guess, which is Macbeth by William Shakespeare.

which is Macbeth by William Shakespeare. Oh, oh, you must never say those words on a podcast. Now one of us will come to an untimely death. We all have to whistle quickly to break the curse. Whistle, Joel. All right, good. I didn't whistle. Continue with the Scottish podcast.

Whistling into microphones is almost as bad as chewing into them. All right. So, Anne, we have put the Scottish podcast into the guest book and now steven what is your guess um i'm going to go with vacation land by john hodgman because i'm pandering and i also have no idea vacation land by john hodgman we'll put that into the guest book i have entered those two guesses into the guest book i'm very very disappointed in both of you because all guesses are wrong in fact those were lyrics from the jonathan colton song brave from the brand new

jonathan colton album solid state as i have read through my case briefing i can see that the two of you both attended the jon Colton Cruise in 2014, where I was as well. And since you are trying to turn my whole podcast into a buzz market for my friend's cruise, I figured I might as well lead off by plugging his brilliant new album. If you haven't listened to it, every person within the sound of my voice, go right away to Jonathan Colton.com and order your copy of Solid State. It's an amazingly brilliant album that I was listening to on vinyl this morning here in the state of Maine. But because both of you failed to identify the lyrics of one of your

favorite recording artists and cruise operators, we're going to go ahead and hear this case. Anne, you are bringing this case against Stephen, is that correct? Yes. And what is your complaint against your husband? Yes. My darling beloved. What's his prob? Basically that we go on vacation and I kind of jump up in the morning and he sleeps in. And it makes me sad because I miss him in the morning. And it also means that I kind of wander around aimlessly until there's something for us to do together. But the other thing is that I've noticed when we go on vacation, together. But the other thing is that I've noticed when we go on vacation, we do tend to do better when we like get up at the same time and do active things together instead of just hanging around,

looking at our electronics. But Anne, let me clarify. Yes. This only happens when you're on vacation, this sleeping discrepancy. It happens sometimes on the weekends, but there's always something to do at home. I mean... But normally, you both have jobs of some kind? Yes. What is your job, if I may ask? Oh, I'm a medical librarian. Fantastic. Does that mean that you curate a library of preserved brains? Fantastic. Does that mean that you curate a library of preserved brains? Oh, I wish it were that interesting. No, it means that when doctors can't access their electronic content, I'm the one who swears at the computer on their behalf. Okay. And Stephen, do you currently have a job? You know, I just got a job offer about an hour and a half ago.

Oh, congratulations. I do have one now. Yes, thank you. Database manager for a small association. Oh, I would advise you not to accept that job. Yeah. I've done it before and I'm looking forward to it again. No, that's wonderful. Congratulations. So you're now going to have to start getting up in the mornings on the regular but i have been he has been we've been getting up at 5 15 and then bless his heart he takes me to work before he does his job hunting oh well guess what uh i find in steven's favor this is the sound of a gavel goodbye anyone who does that for his wife how can i so far you know what steven we had a long without a long run of heteronormative married couples where the dude

is got some scheme why he doesn't have to be a member of civilization uh but right now you're doing pretty good if you're getting up 5 15 every morning on a work night to drive uh your wife ann to the medical library good job thank you thank you i trust she would return the favor uh but but now i understand a little bit better this this is a vacation issue because when you're on vacation, Stephen, you may not want to wake up at 5.15 a.m. to go see an aqueduct or, in the case of the Jonathan Colton Cruise, some nerds play tabletop games or whatever. Yes, yes. That's a cue for you to defend yourself. Oh, good point. I also tend to go to sleep a bit later than Anne.

So, you know, we go to... Yeah, I'm bringing this up, honey. So when we go to bed, I'll read to her for a while and then after that I'll play on my phone or something and then turn on... You'll read to her for a while? Yes. Apparently the monotony of my voice puts her to sleep.

So I'm happy to oblige. What part of the world are you from? England originally. Oh, really? What a surprise. Fantastic. What do you read to Anne at night? Let's see.

Various things, obviously. Jane Austen. There you go. Jane Austen. Georgette Heyer. Light things. Things that are of no consequence and won't upset either of us. What was the second one that you mentioned?

Georgette Heyer, Regency Romances. Oh. It's kind of like if Jane Austen and P.G. Woodhouse collaborated on a novel. I would love to have you read me to sleep every night. Yeah, I want to crawl into bed with you. I know, geez. You stay up late.

You want to sleep in. On vacation, what does sleeping in mean to you? What time? Stephen. You know, when I naturally wake up, but it tends to be 7, 8 o'clock maybe. I was thinking 8 or 9 on the last vacation. Yeah, it does vary. So anywhere between 7 and 9.

Anne, what time do you want to wake up? I usually still wake up at 5.30 or if I'm being crazy, 6. And you want Stephen to get up with you on vacation at 5.30 in the morning? Well, I could give him till 6. How about this? I would like Stephen to go out and have breakfast with me. So if breakfast is available at 7, I'm fine with him waking up at 2 minutes to 7 and pulling on his shorts and shirt and running out. Okay. And you also accused him of using devices in bed after he woke up to delay the getting out of bed and running to breakfast with you?

To delay the getting out of bed and running to breakfast with you? Yeah, we are both slightly guilty of that. Then I condemn you both to hell. Only because I am also guilty of it and I am trying to stop using internet in bed. It is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad thing to do. Because it is basically putting your brain into predator mode where you're constantly anxiously searching for the next hit of dopamine it is not good for falling asleep and it is not good for wasting time while waking up so right away i'm going to say stop that both of you because i can't so I'm going to be mad at you so and I have to say just off the top of my head on vacation asking someone to get up at 6 a.m.

is a pretty big ask but let me hear more of your story and perhaps that will change my mind let's go back to the Jonathan Colton Cruz 2014, where apparently something went down that brought this issue to a head, such that you are now taking it on my podcast three years later. What happened? Well, part of what happened is poor Stephen packed the wrong thing of medicine. He packed an empty thing instead of a full thing. And consequently, he was a lot more sleepy. And I completely understand that and adore him regardless. But it meant that...

He was more sleepy because he didn't pack his special medicine? Yeah, you know, my steak tastes better medicine. I got you. Sorry. And also went into hyper introvert mode, we'll say. So I feel like I spent half of that cruise on my own and that he'd come out and we'd go to the concerts together. But I missed him. I mean, I was sad. So I'm sorry that you didn't have the greatest experience on the cruise.

For those who don't know, the Jonathan Colton Cruise is a fun week on a boat with a bunch of fans of Jonathan Colton and, uh, nerd culture of all stripe. And, uh, and I arguably fans of me, uh,

and lots of other incredible performers such as Amy Mann and Ted Leo and John Roderick and many others and comedy. It's a really fun, I'm, I'm go ahead and plug in this cruise cause it's a really fun time. I only go every other year and I'm going to be going on it in 2018 in February. I mean, you can buy tickets now and you can go and check it out. Ann and Steven, am I going to see you on this cruise?

We went last year. And since Steven didn't have a job for half of this year, we've been wrestling with it. Oh, well, now he's got a job, so you have to go. We have to hang out in the hot tub together. There we go. No matter what happens. Well, and I was also going to say, and content-wise, so we had a blast at the concerts, obviously,

but then I went to, like, talks and the management Q&A, and I would come back, and I would tell Stephen, oh, they said this and this and this, and it was so funny. back and I would tell Stephen, oh, they said this and this and this. And it was so funny. And then I compare that to a cruise we had in 2015. And it sounds like all we do are cruises, but I kind of looked back at our vacations and the ones where I felt better and more refreshed. And they were the ones where we got up and we did things together. And physical activity is another variable there. And the thing that I have not expressed that I need to is I have the potential to be just as naughty, I will say, as Stephen,

as far as slacking off or saying, let's take a nap instead of going for a lovely walk or engaging with other human beings. Are you suggesting that sleeping past 6 a.m. is naughty? No, I'm actually thinking more of like naps in the afternoon. Uh-huh. Does Stephen have a nap problem? Oh, we have such a nap problem. Because they say it should be 30 minutes. And it's like if we conk out, it's two to three hours or nothing. Both of you. Yeah. And this was the thing. Well, I guess I won't jump the gun evidence wise, but yeah, we've missed activities because we were napping.

Well, go ahead and jump the gun evidence wise. I'd love to hear the story about what you missed because you were napping. Well, go ahead and jump the gun evidence-wise. I'd love to hear the story about what you missed because you were napping. Okay. Well, this was a different cruise. This was a river cruise in France. Just a quick question. How many cruises have you been on? Uh-oh.

Five or six. Let's see. I've been on three JoCo cruises, and Stephen's been on two, and then we went on two obscure just cruise cruises, and then one river cruise. Yeah, non-nerd. Non-nerd, yeah. Right. So I've been on five.

She's been on six. How many kids do you have? Zero. Oh, you guys are doing it right. Well, there's a cat, but... Oh, you guys are doing it right. Well, there's a cat, but. Oh, sure. There's a cat. It's fantastic.

That sits on your chest while you're reading Jane Austen erotica to your beloved. Actually, she sits on. He sits on Anne's on Anne while I'm reading. Whatever. And then you guys get up the next day and do whatever you feel like doing pretty much go on a cruise oh look i love my children but but i gotta say you guys are doing everything right and it seems to me when people are doing everything right they shouldn't be looking for fights to have with each other especially when poor steven only reason steven was logie that one cruise was that he forgot to bring whatever his medicine is.

Yeah, but he's... We're taking that off the books right now. That whole cruise is not evidence for you. Now tell me about the evidence when you were on this river cruise, when you took a nap and you missed something important. Well, I have only been to France once, and that was on that cruise. And I have always wanted to go to the Louvre, even though I understand that it's very crowded and the first hallway is full of 400 pictures of the baby Jesus. So on that cruise, we decided not to go to the Louvre so we could take a nap. And we went to Bermuda, where we had booked a sunset sail excursion. That was another

cruise. And we took a nap through that. So, yeah, there's a nap trend. Well, you made an active choice to skip the Louvre for a nap. I did, to my eternal regret. But this is also where I think... Yeah, I think there's an argument that you made the wrong decision there. But it's not as though you decided to take a nap and then you woke up and you're like, oh, we slept until the Louvre was closed and now we missed it. Yeah. No, it was more like, wow, we're both really tired. No, it was more like, wow, we're both really tired.

And the cruise people said, if anybody has changed their mind about the excursion to the Louvre, then let us know because we can give your tickets to somebody else. But was that a mutual decision or was Stephen putting pressure on, he's putting nap pressure on you? It was a mutual. Well, we could go see all those pictures of baby Jesus with those crowds or I could read some jane austen erotica to you um no it was it was him going oh i could skip that and me going yeah i guess and then him saying i promise i'll take you back to the louvre um so you guys talk funny when you're together. You guys talk and yawn talk. No, no. But so we're like, you understand this is a dispute podcast.

What I want you to say is Stephen made me take a nap instead of going to see the Mona Lisa. Stephen is a fine human being who respects my will and is very much into consent. But the thing is, and I guess what legally I'm trying to get is a ruling where he is permitted to kick my butt to make me not nap. So you also have a sleep problem. It's not just him is what you're saying. Right. He's got the sleeping in problem, but then we both have the nap problem. Let's take a quick break. We'll hear more about Ann and Stephen's travels when we come back in just a minute. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org.

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It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at Babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm summertime fun time bailiff Monty Belmonte filling in for Jesse Thorne. Ann and Stephen disagree about how they should manage sleeping schedules on vacation.

Why does it matter to Ann if Stephen sleeps in? Let's go back into the courtroom to find out. But let's get back to Stephen's so-called sleeping in problem. called sleeping in problem. When that lazy layabout sleeps in until 6.30 a.m. and you're awake for a whole hour before he starts to stir, what do you do with yourself? It depends. On our last cruise, it worked out really well because we bought a laptop, and so I wrote. I went away and I wrote. I actually went to the fantastic gaming room on the JoCo cruise where there are many tables and wrote and watched people interact. And so that was very nice.

Right. But the downside of that is then I have breakfast because they have a fabulous breakfast. We are really selling this cruise, you guys. Well, I like to support the arts. But then Stephen would come and I'd have breakfast again. And that's like a whole other series of health issues. We'll just start the Ann and Steven health issue podcast. Second breakfast is a time honored nerd tradition. I appreciate that.

That is a, that is very hobbity of you. Yeah. I'm not sure I appreciate. So you, you go have breakfast and then he wakes up and wants to have breakfast. He wants to have his breakfast. Yeah.

And so I make her have second breakfast. You make her have second breakfast. And-hmm. Yeah, and so I make her half-second breakfast. You make her half-second breakfast? And, Anne, are you unable to say, I'll just sit here and have a cup of coffee and watch you eat?

No, I'm incapable of that because there's always something different. That and I don't drink coffee, so. All right, got it. We both drink tea. You know, Anne, you're not making a very strong case for yourself here. I need you to explain to me and to Monty and Joel, to the listeners of the world, and especially to Stephen, how it makes you feel when he does not join you for morning activities and instead chooses to rest? The thing is, we tend to come back from

vacations tired. I mean, past experience has indicated that on the vacations where we get up and we do stuff and we're kind of on the same schedule. We come home and we feel kind of rested and happy. And then there are vacations where we're kind of off schedule or we opt for the nap instead of the walk. And we come home and we're still feeling tired and out of sorts. And my feeling is this is such a great man. I mean, I adore him. And if we join our forces for good, we can achieve fabulous things and have amazing vacations, because we have in the past. But if we indulge our slacker side, then we're going to keep having vacations that are kind of, kind of, and the thing is, is if I tell you about any, and I don't want to brag about our vacations, but if I tell you things about our vacation, it's a great vacation. There's like the things that you experience and then the way that you experience them.

And I feel like we could do better and that we're missing an opportunity. And I don't think that it's a conscious thing on Stephen's part. I don't think that he logicked it out and said, if I i sleep in it's going to make me be more refreshed i think it's more you know you're you're a bear and you get out of the cave and you go i'm going to go back in the cave so you're accusing him not of wanting to rest more you're accusing him of being more introverted and more prone to choose sleep over activity than you would like. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm the same way. But, you know, I'm trying to do better and I want his help in doing better. I think it would be healthier for us in the long run.

It isn't just about enjoying vacations more. It's about enjoying life, life more. So, all right. It sounds to me like, first of all, Stephen, do you agree with Anne's assessment that you come back from vacations having wasted opportunities and generally feeling tired and sluggish and quote unquote out of sorts? tired and sluggish and quote unquote out of sorts there is that yeah there's definitely been several vacations i can point to where where that's been the case yes have you ever heard the term i need a vacation from my vacation yeah yes joel you ever hear that term i need a vacation from my yes i have yeah monty you ever the term, I need a vacation from my vacation? I bet I've even said it.

Yeah, right. There's a reason for it. If you're doing vacations right, it's stimulating. It's a balance of rest and also activity. But you agree with Anne's assessment that sometimes your balance of rest and activity is out of whack. Too much rest. Yes, I have to agree with that, unfortunately. You want to manage your vacation time better too.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm not averse to it, but there is just, you know, it's just nice to get up when I wake up and that's just later. Well, right. But are you sad that you missed the Louvre? Yeah. I mean, that was an expensive nap. I mean, because we also didn't go up the Eiffel Tower, and that was mostly poor planning. Because you fell asleep on the elevator? Yeah, no, we didn't get that far because the lines were too long, and we hadn't pre-bought tickets.

But no, really, that was an expensive nap. I mean, I promised her that we'd go back sometime. So that's, you know, another vacation to France, which is not a bad thing at all. There's plenty of things to see in Paris and elsewhere in France. But a bit of an expensive nap, yeah. So you are going to keep your promise to take her to the Louvre. That's the expense you're talking about. Yes, exactly.

So if not sleeping in, which I argue you do not do, you sleep to a normal hour for vacation. Does that make me prejudiced because I am prejudging this case? Yes. But without the issue of sleeping in, where do you see you or Anne going wrong in your rest versus activity management, Stephen? Hint, hint, napping. You know, well, we've taken naps in about a half dozen world capitals so far. So I'm not sure if that's a bad trend or not. Is there structure to your vacation days as they stand?

And do you plan out what you're going to do? It depends on the vacation. The one thing about the France cruise is they did have excursions every day. One thing about theme parks, which we haven't mentioned, and we don't do them hugely, but like we went on our honeymoon, is usually there's a park that opens early. So if we go to the early hours to avoid the crowds, then we're doing that early. But then we take a break in the afternoon and go back to the hotel. And if we go swimming to relax, I think that's more effective than taking a nap to relax. And then we have the energy to go out into the park in the evening and see fireworks.

So, Anne, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? Stephen gets up when you get up. No naps. And you both go to bed at the same time? Well, and you've almost persuaded me on my monsterdom regarding the wake-up time. But I would like us to engage in more physical activity. And yes, only have naps in world capitals. Only have naps in world capitals.

I thought you didn't want to sleep through the Louvre again. I don't want to sleep through the Louvre. Well, only like if we go to Rome, Italy. If only if it's a world capital that we haven't been to, then I feel like we need to take a nap there. Oh, you got, Anne, you're all over the map. I'm sorry, what do you want? Are you trying to find the nap capital of the world? No, it's just we've napped in enough world capitals that I feel like that's okay to continue if it's a new world cap. We can add to our list of world capitals.

But other than that, no naps. Because a lot of places... Oh, now it's part of a challenge? It's the world capital nap challenge? It's just our own personal bucket list. But we go to many places that are not world capitals. So I think that could work out. Anne.

Yes. You brought your beloved husband here. I'm still not clear what the problem is. Tell me what you want me to order him to do. What behavior does he need to modify, specifically, when you go on your next vacation? Do you have it planned? we don't because we've been up in the air with the job thing um right we've been talking about a cruise yeah a cruise up to up to new england and canada up through new england and canada that probably includes maine joel good luck there yeah that's probably you're probably going to stop uh your your cruise ship is probably going to stop right there in bar harbor harbor yes it does um so get up get up and have breakfast what time um i think seven um you guys are in love with these are so much you're

you're afraid to yell at each other and give weird ultimatums. It's the most unusual married couple I've ever met. Well, that's why we came here, so you could yell at us and give us weird ultimatums. You're so used to mutual respect and understanding that you don't want to use my podcast to passively, aggressively get me to push your partner around for you. It's like you don't have any stored up gripes that you want to use me to enact vengeance on at all they're so well rested they can't even figure out how to be angry at each other i know right they lead a frictionless childless life of reading to each other and waking up and going on cruises and then wash rinse repeat it sounds like i'm mad

at you but i'm not but i might throw you out of this court if you don't tell me what you want me to order stephen to do specifically so here we go when you go on first of all and also well like you know now that he's got this job that you could go to the louvre or you can go to the jonathan colton cruise those are the two themes we've got going in this podcast. I don't need you entering the bar Harbor cruise into this and muddying the waters, the cruise waters, as it were pick one of those two and Jonathan Colton cruise or the Louvre

and Jonathan Colton. I can guarantee you is not listening to this podcast. Speak freely. Um, I can't handle the pressure. jonathan colton okay jonathan colton cruz what time does steven wake up two minutes before seven let's let's just say seven okay say seven well i want to be out the door at 7 but okay 7 well then you got to say 6.45am he's a pretty fast dresser but

okay no we'll say 7 I don't want you blowing an air horn in his ear at 6.58 thank you judge and making him leap out of bed if you want someone to be rested you're not going to torture them true true okay 6.45am okay 7am if you want someone to be rested, you're not going to torture them. True, true. Okay.

6.45 a.m. Okay. 7 a.m. No, I'm... Who's the judge? You are, sir. You want to be out the door at 7.15, then at 7 a.m. Okay. You want to be out of the door at 7, then at 6.45.

I'm going to say 7 and be out at 715. You understand that this is just your proposal. Your words are not speech acts until I rule on them here. I know. I know. The second thing is engage in physical activity before and during the cruise. And that would be in lieu of naps. In either vacation you're proposing, the Jonathan Colton cruise or the Paris trip, we napped in Paris. So there would be no naps on those trips. Okay. I don't want there to be nap precedent. I want there to be a clean line here, clean understanding of what we're talking about. Okay. You have already laid claim to the Jonathan Colton cruise. You guys both know you are creatures with free will.

You can do whatever vacation you want, but for the purpose of this podcast, your next vacation is going to be the Jonathan Colton cruise 2018. Booking now at Joko cruise.com or whatever. Steven is going to get up at six 45 to join you out the door at 7 a.m they're going to be zero naps on this cruise is that what you're saying that is what i'm saying all right and physical activity means what well that that instead of taking a nap in the afternoon we would go to the pool as an alternative.

But also making sure that we do. You got to prop open those eyeballs with toothpicks because no napping poolside, right? If he managed to pull that off, I might give that to him. But normally we're in the pool. So no napping. Moving around. Moving around. And also don't prop open your eyeballs with toothpicks. Arguably your eyelids.

That's the saying, but don't do that either because you're going to hurt your eyes. And what time does Steven normally go to bed? And what time would you like him to go to bed? We normally go to bed pretty early. I mean, we kind of go to bed at 8 and read until 9. Read or be read to. Yes. Well, we both kind of mess around on iPads and then he reads.

Okay. And then. So going to bed. You had said earlier on that Stephen goes to bed too late. What's he staying up till 930 behind your back? Well, he does, he does tend to, like after he is done reading

and I am in slumber land, he stays up on his electronic devices sometimes as late as 10 or 11 if he has life stress. What'd you say? Okay. Oh, like he doesn't have a job and he's looking for one?

Yeah. Yeah, little things like that. Stephen, a question before I start meandering my way over to my stateroom on this cruise ship that is my chambers. Do you have, personally, Stephen, enough alone time? I think so. That's an interesting question. Not one I've spent a lot of time thinking about. Clearly not.

I mean, you guys enjoy togetherness very much. It's apparent in talking to you. Yeah. But I guess what I'm asking is, everyone in a relationship does need some time to themselves do you stay up later than you should or want to sleep in later than is asked of you because you just need a little time to yourself not consciously but i couldn't say it's unconscious. Somewhere between the conscious and unconscious. Yeah, yeah.

What stage of sleep is that? Is that REM? Yeah, it could be. I think it's like a Michael Stipe solo. Okay, fair enough. Anne, do you have enough alone time in this relationship? I mean, you do because Stephen leaves you alone in the morning sometime, right? And you don't like it? I feel like you do because Steven leaves you alone in the morning sometime, right? And you don't like it.

I feel like I do. You know, we're both pretty good at. Well, here's the thing. We're both very good at saying, oh, I want some downtime. And the other person's like, fine. But most of the time it's like, oh, I'm fine just sitting next to you at our respective computers and killing monsters. Which I kind of consider downtime. fine just sitting next to you at our respective computers and and killing monsters which i kind of consider downtime um so y'all y'all are gamers yeah yeah what what games do you play

world of warcraft mostly diablo diablo right so you so you're in your own worlds When you're doing that We play together Sometimes Yeah when we play Yeah when we play together And then we Well the Warcraft We normally play together

When we're playing that He heals me Kept her alive For ten years now Oh my god She's died a couple times I know that's not scary at all Monty Belmonte.

Yes. What about these two? These two adults. You guys, how old are you? 54. 51. Fantastic. And no children at all, not from previous relationships or anything else?

No. Monty Belmonte. Envy. Yeah. Right? Look, we both have children we love right yeah yeah where'd we go wrong I don't know you know what time I get up Judge John Hodgman I do but tell the listeners two o'clock in the morning Monday through Friday wow to go do your morning show at WRSI the river in Northampton, Massachusetts. What time do you get up, Joel? As late as possible. Yeah, that's right. How do you

feel about Stephen sleeping in until 7 a.m.? What I think, if you really want to know, is that... This is the most I've ever heard from you in my life. Yes, please. They should take a sleep vacation. Sleep-cation. Why? Do you feel that they are sleep deprived?

Yes, I think they should be checked for sleep apnea. Really? Why do you think that? Because they're always sleeping. You know where they should go, Joel? They should go to South Africa because South Africa has three capitals and then you could take a nap in each one of those three capitals

and add to your international nap tour. Sold. Monty, Joel was laying down some serious wisdom here about the perils of sleep apnea, undiagnosed sleep apnea, and you jump in with some geography trivia? Because I'll tell you what, Brazil also has three capitals. You didn't hear me saying anything about that until just now. Now go to both of those countries, cure your sleep apnea, get all three capitals. You didn't hear me saying anything about that until just now. Now go to both of those countries. Hear your sleep apnea.

Get all the capitals. Tell us what the nap capital of the world is. Let me ask you both, Anne and Stephen, per Joel's point, do you feel that your sleep may be compromised by something like sleep apnea and that might be affecting your overall vivaciousness in general? Anne? I have been diagnosed with sleep apnea, but... Joel, you know, oh my God, right on the button. He's sitting in front of a board full of buttons and he pressed one button and he was right. Okay. Tell me more about your apnea.

Well, basically I had it. I lost a fair amount of weight, and it does not seem to be an issue, at least anecdotally. Great. So I don't think that's an issue. And Stephen, is that an issue for you? It might well be an issue for me, yeah. And what do you think? Does he got that apnea?

He's not really a snorer, but I mean, he has the occasional sudden wake up. All right. So, Stephen, you've heard what Anne would have me order when you go on that judge. I was going to call it the Judge John Hodgman Cruise. That is not. I think it's a fine name. That is not what it is is all i do is sit in a hot tub and give life advice i'm an ancillary on that cruise but when we sit in that hot tub she's going to say nope you can't go to sleep in the afternoons you gotta wake up at 7 a.m uh what would you have me order instead so that I have a decision to make when I go into my nautical chambers?

Sign up for shore excursions and make sure we're up at a reasonable time for those shore excursions when they're available. But otherwise, let me sleep in. What time do you want to sleep till in the morning? Until I wake up. Until you wake up. Yeah. And that could be nine, 10. It's been that before. Got it. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'd like to hear a bosun's whistle as I move my way into my nautical chambers. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

And Stephen, usually when I'm a guest bailiff, there's one party that I usually somewhat loathe. But you two are the most delightful sounding people I have ever heard from in my life. And you seem so kind to one another and you drink tea and you wake up with her during the week and take her to work. to one another and you drink tea and you wake up with her during the week and take her to work and uh but ann if you didn't wake up so early on a regular basis do you think your nap issue would not be an issue at all you wouldn't need to nap if you slept in maybe closer to the time steven's circadian rhythms want you to be sleeping too i think i'm getting eight hours at night. But then and it's tricky because at home the cat wakes me wakes us up. God awful early. But I think on vacation, once you're in that habit, it's hard. cruise were which left out of San Diego so it wasn't just that I was waking up at 5 30 east coast time I was waking up at what 2 30 2 30 San Diego time so in that case I didn't make him wake

up at 2 3030 San Diego time. Now, assuming you weren't missing out on anything important like the Mona Lisa, what's the problem with taking a nap on a given day, especially on vacation? There's a recent article in the UK Telegraph that says that sleep is actually more important than exercise or diet. So isn't it potentially better for your health to take the nap? That doesn't seem to be how it works for me. It tends to make me headachy. I hate to take, I can't nap.

That's my problem. I wake up at two and then I'm up until I go to bed at eight or nine. I get five hours of sleep. If I take a nap, I turn into a monster when I wake up. Well, and we've had our moments of that. Yeah. Steven. Yes.

I know that some of the background information that was sent is that you two met because of your mutual love of Harry Potter. Yes. Have you ever read Harry Potter with your British accent out loud to Anne while you're in bed? It's too scary. Is it? I, um, actually, Anne has, Anne started collecting the, uh, first Harry Potter book in, in foreign languages. So I've tried reading her the Dutch version. My mother's Dutch and it just, no, but it wasn't working. So. But we can tell you that in the Dutch version, uh, Dumbledore is named Professor Perkamentis.

Now correct my pronunciation. No, that's close enough. Okay. Wow. You guys are the best kind of nerds. I read Harry Potter out loud to my wife, and I tried to do the voices, but I am not British like you. So we'll be back with Judge John Hodgman's verdict. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever

you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict

and steven i obviously agree with uh my summertime fun time guest bailiff monty belmonte and i'm certain with jo Joel that you guys are adorable. Right, Joel? Very adorable. There we go. And you have the benefit of no children. And now, once again, and I hope for a long time to come, double income. And a delightful love of vacations.

But you are in an unusual circumstance because aside from your jobs, you have very few outside pressures on how you spend your time. And therefore you can be profoundly selfish as a couple in terms of how you spend your time almost entirely on each other. And it's wonderful. And I trust you appreciate it's unusual. each other. And it's wonderful. And I trust you appreciate it's unusual. And I love that Anne wants to spend all of her time with Stephen. And Stephen seems to feel the same way. All he wants to do is be able to sleep a little later during vacations, which on its face is a totally reasonable request. Totally reasonable. And while I appreciate that as we get older, we wake up earlier naturally and, you know, Monty Belmonte opened this by saying that I prioritize sleep over almost anything. And

I do, but I just can't do it anymore. I don't sleep the same way I used to even two years ago. I'm up routinely now. Like I'm, you know, as we all do, we become our parents and I'm becoming my dad. I'm getting up at 5.30 almost every morning. I can't go back to sleep. I have to figure out what to do with my day. And I often feel lonely because my wife is a normal human being. I appreciate that feeling of aloneness when someone else is sleeping and you are awake and ready to get going in the world.

I envy you both because I used to be a champion napper. I mean, I got the medals and ribbons and trophies to prove it, but I can't take a nap now at all. So I appreciate where you're coming from, Anne, but Stephen should be able to sleep a little bit later on what is his vacation. And as for the naps, two hour naps as grownups, I think is inappropriate and not good for your physical or mental health. I think, Anne, you pointed out that, you know, you sent along some data that suggests that most professionals feel that the most refreshing nap is 20 to 30 minutes. And in my experience, when just closing my eyes for 20 to 30 minutes and not even going to sleep, but just sort of going into a slightly lower state of consciousness

is profoundly meditative and restorative. That is true. But a two to four hour nap past the age of nine, I think is too much and not necessary. And I think does bring you into that logy part of the afternoon. And if you are taking, if you're ever taking a nap and you're waking up and it's dark outside, you got to change your life. You got to change your style. So there, I do think you guys have some work to do. But that said, there is an illogic in what Anne says, which is that if they go on vacation, they get too much rest, then they feel unrested. Especially on a cruise, you do need a rest. And I wouldn't even beat yourself up over skipping the Louvre that much.

Because the fact is, travel is stimulative, more so than staying at home. Travel puts things in front of you that your brain cannot deal with. And when you're on a cruise, you are on an impossible fallen down hotel in the middle of an abyss. And that fallen down hotel is trying to distract you from pondering your mortality so hard with bells, whistles, and casinos, and magic shows, and mismatching carpet, and overdone decor, and meanwhile you're walking around and the whole floor is moving all the time at some imperceptible pitch, you totally need a nap on that boat. And you totally have the right in your life to say,

I'm too tired to go see the Louvre next time. So there's absolutely nothing wrong with your life except for an abundance of choice. You have so little, especially when you go on vacation, when you no longer have the structure of work, you have no other pressures on either of you except each other to keep your world on a certain pace and i think equally problematic in your lives is not only the length of time asleep but also the

length of time on screens i don't want to deny you your love of World of Warcraft and your love of using phones. I was yelling at you for exactly doing the exact same thing that I do, which is look at my phone in bed and use the internet. But we all know how especially looking at screens in bed is profoundly disruptive to healthful sleep because you stay up later than you should. And you're also bombarding your eyes with light. And even now you can turn on the night shift on the Apple phone, but even so you're still throwing light into your eyes and cuing your brain to be awake and alert at precisely the time you should be winding down, say by listening to your husband read to you in a beautiful accent while you got a cat on your tummy. That's the way to go to sleep. So yes, on your tummy. That's the way to go to sleep. So yes, I agree with Anne that you guys need to work on your sleep hygiene, both in real life, but especially on vacation. When I see you on that

Jonathan Colton cruise, here's what I want to see in your life. I want Steven to be up and ready to go by 8 a.m not 7 a.m that's still too early and plan out two days during that week when steven can sleep as late as he wants make that part of your plan i want you guys to block out when you are going to take a siesta we we'll call it, instead of a nap. Siesta sounds fun. Nap sounds almost depressive for grownups. Or at least some meditative downtime that does not involve slaughtering orcs in World of Warcraft. A time that fits into that schedule that is no longer than an hour

so that you build in, you know, 20 minutes of wakeful cuddling or reading or whatever on either side. So you can really go down, get some rest, at least 30 minutes of good rest, and then come back up again, refreshed and ready to go on. And you guys, you know, should go to bed, you know, continue your incredibly romantic, beautiful going to bed routine. But really, you guys, you both and me have to put, get those screens out of bed at bedtime. That is really bad news. So that is what I order. And insofar as I am not following Anne's specific request, and because the time has come for me to rule in favor of one husband this year i'm going to nominally find in steven's favor and say that yes you may sleep as late as you want two days let's

say two fifths out of every vacation that's going to be part of your plan but I want you guys to plan out your days carefully, allowing activity balanced with rest and follow that plan so that everyone gets a little bit of what they want. Very compromising sort of verdict, but I don't see how I can do it with two litigants as adorable as you guys are. Nonetheless, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Stephen, you get to sleep in on vacation. Congratulations. Yes, thank you. Anne, are you OK with this?

You know, I kind of figured given the week that Stephen had that he was going to crush me in this. So, yes, I'm very satisfied and think, well, I don't want to sound like a cliche, that the judge was wise about us having some structure. Another case put to rest. That's a bad pun. I didn't even write that one. Jennifer Marmer wrote that one, but she knows what's in my wheelhouse. No, Joel Mann, tell Monty no.

Monty, please, no. Thank you, Joel. You can blame Jennifer Marmer for that one. I just decided to keep it. Own it. Own it tell Monty no. Monty, please, no. Thank you, Joel. You can blame Jennifer Marmer for that one. I just decided to keep it. Own it. Own it, Monty. That was a good pun. Thank you very much, both of you, for being on the podcast.

Thank you very much for having us. Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Stephen LaPenta for naming this week's episode Nap Judgment. Thanks, Stephen. If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for submissions.

You can follow us on Twitter, at Hodgman, and at Monty Belmonte. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHo, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode. This week's episode recorded by Harry and Tristan at Clean Cuts in Washington, D.C.

and Joel Mann at WERU in East Orland, Maine. Our producer and sometimes pun writer is Jennifer Marmer. Now let's get to the swift justice where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. You ready? Good judge, John Hodgman. I'm ready. answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Are you ready, good judge John Hodgman? I'm ready. Lori W. asks, if the air conditioning is on and you want it to be warmer, would you turn up the AC or turn down the AC? Well, I'm going to ask Joel, first of all, here we are in Maine. Have you ever heard of air conditioning? I've heard about it, but I haven't really experienced it. If you want

it to be warmer, do you turn up the AC or do you turn down the AC? I turn it off and open a window. All right. Monty, what would you do? I'd turn up the ACDC. I can't believe you made Joel Mann laugh with that joke. Both of you, go do your own podcast. Gross.

That'd be fun, Joel. We should do that. If you want it to be warmer, you turn down the AC. Yes. Gross. That'd be fun, Joel. We should do that. If you want it to be warmer, you turn down the AC. Yes. If you want to be colder, you turn up the AC. I don't even know why that's even a question. That's it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHo

or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case too small. Thank you, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte and guest engineer Joel Mann. It's been a pleasure talking to you guys over the radios. And I just want to give a final plug out to WERU 89.9 and Blue Hill 99.9 in Bangor, originating here from Orland, Maine. And Monty Belmonte, you're always on the radio every morning. Get up every 2 a.m. to talk to the people down in Northampton on WRSI, the river 93.9.

Different is good. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.