Judge John Hodgman - Night Food Court

Episode Date: August 1, 2012

Trips for late night fast food and fraternal bonding cause a rift in a relationship -- and only one man can help repair it.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, night food court. Casey and Matt are a young married couple. Matt loves to go out for midnight fast food runs with his best friend, who's a fellow night owl grad student. He says it's a chance to eat and have quality time with friends. His wife Casey objects to the practice, saying it strains their budget and the time Matt has to get things done around the house. Who is right and who is wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. He's got McDonald's on the brain. It's plain to see.

When I see him on the street, the first thing he says to says to me is boy we sure make those Big Macs fast they've got McDonald's on the brain it's plain to see they sit around on their 15 minute breaks showing the scars on their arms they talk about how

fast they make those hamburgers and talk about the times that they got judged. Jesse, swear I'm in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever. I do.

I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that for the past five years, by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that for the past five years, he's subsisted on a diet solely composed of caviar and space food pills? I do. Yes, I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman.

All right, you may be seated. Who am I speaking to here? What are your names? This is Matt. And this is Casey. Hello. I offer a summary judgment in the favor of the complainant or defendant who can name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I walked into the courtroom. Oh, gosh.

Unfortunately, I can't name it. Really? I cannot. What are your ages? 24. I'm 25. Let me explain it It is of course Jad Fair and Daniel Johnston's

42nd long song Entitled McDonald's on the Brain Matt you should know this I know I like Daniel Johnston But obviously I'm not a good enough fan of him to recognize it Obviously you are not And if you were You would know that the song ended. Unfortunately, I had to squeeze it into my dumb judgy rubric.

So I changed the last word of the song to, they talk about how fast they make those hamburgers and talk about the time that they got judged. And I had to ruin one of the great lyrics of all time, which is they talk about how fast they make those hamburgers and talk about the times that they got burned. They got McDonald's on the brain. It's plain to see. And that's the rest of the song.

I don't need your slow. I don't need your slow clap, sir. Just a slow clapping for me. How did you even know that clap was me? Why? Because it was a self-congratulatory.'m right all the time husbandly clap i know what i know what a husband clap sounds like let's keep the jokey slow claps to yourself sir now casey you are the complainant yes how are you i'm okay tell me tell me about all the things your husband does wrong

so he does a few things wrong, and this is one of them. But for the most part, he is a very great husband. This is one of those issues that we just cannot agree on. And you are our last resort, and we are looking for some wise counsel. Your husband's going out and eating food, junk food, all night long. He's a junk food junkie. He is a junk food junkie. And I go to bed relatively early usually

by 9 p.m i have to be at work really early in the morning and often wait you're 24 years old yes and you're going to bed at 9 p.m yes and and and you say because you have to be at work very early in the morning however and i'm an early bird. I'd be at work at 8. You'd be at work at 8 a.m.? What is your career, if I may ask? I am an event planner for the university here. Oh, okay. Where is here? Durham, North Carolina. Oh. Yep. So where is Duke? It's a nice town. It's a great town. It's the home of John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats. It's the home of Megafon.

Megafon. We actually saw them. We've seen them twice. They are great performers. We're huge fans. They are fantastic. They're great. So what I'm saying is there is a nightlife to your town that you are missing out on.

Yes, I've been an early bird my whole life. So what time do you wake up? I wake up at about six every morning. So wait a minute. Are you clinically depressed? Why are you going to bed at 9pm? I'm just sleepy. I'm not going to bed early. You're a young person. Young people require only three hours of sleep. That's not true. People in their 20s only require three hours of sleep. So long as they keep to a steady diet of vodka and five-hour energy drink, you should be fine. And McDonald's? Well, we'll talk about that in a moment.

Okay. All right. So you go to bed early. Yeah. I go to bed early, and a few nights a week. It's usually the average is two. Sometimes it's less. Sometimes it's more.

the average is two. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more. Matt and his good friend will go out and have fast food to talk and eat and enjoy time together, which in theory sounds great. But basically, it comes down to three major issues that I have. One, we're on one income. First of all, I'm going to say in theory, it doesn't necessarily sound great. Okay. Before we can get to the in practice part, let's focus on, let's test this theory. Sure. You go out, you're a graduate student? That's right.

Okay. And you are 25 years old. What did you say you were? 25. 25 years old. And you're married. That's right. Nice. Admitted kids. I like married. That's right. Nice.

Admitted kids. I like it. Okay. There you go. And your wife, your wife, Trudy Campbell puts on her, puts on her quilted nightgown at 5 p.m.

That's right. And puts on her sleepy mask and goes to bed and you're twiddling your thumbs wondering what am I going to do? So come around what time? That's right. answer? Yeah, it's typically just one friend. And usually the way it works is he and I will be... Is there one particular friend? Yes, yes. His name is Scott. And he's also a student in the same program that I'm in. And he's also a good friend of Casey's as well. Casey, is he a good friend of yours? He's a very good friend of mine. Is he Matt's disreputable friend? No, he is very wonderful and reputable. Is he a married person? He is engaged, about to be married next month, actually. So he's sowing his wild oats by eating a lot of junk food at midnight with your hubby? There you go. Yeah. Living the crazy single life.

So 1130 at night, you go out and you meet Scott. Where do you meet him? So 1130 at night, you go out and you meet Scott, where do you meet him? So typically, we'll be, you know, most of us, usually both of us are working independently of each other, either. For me, it's usually at home, and we'll send a text to one another, you know, usually around 930 or 10 and say, Hey, you know, if we can get work done in the next couple hours, you want to meet, you want to, you know, I can come pick you up or you pick me up about 1130. So typically he'll come in his car or I'll go to his, to his apartment and pick him up. Okay. What are you working on? Typically writing, studying takeout menus. Yeah. Mainly just, you know, lining up the options for the evening, trying to figure out if I'm going to go with the number four or the number six. Okay. You know what? We made the joke. I'm asking you a question. What are you working on? Oh, sorry. I'm studying

theology. Typically it's just reading and writing. Theology? Yes. Okay. So you're working on a PhD? No, this is a Masters of Divinity. I'm trying to master God first. Okay. Okay, Master God.

So where do you guys go to eat? It's most often Cookout, which is a regional greasy chain in the North Carolina, in most areas of North Carolina. Or else Wendy's. Those two. Oh. Why? I was with you with Cookout. I wanted to go eat there. Yeah. As soon as you said a great local greasy spoon, cause I like garbage food a lot. You know what I mean? Right.

Right. And I got nothing against, well, you know, I got nothing against Wendy's, but why would you choose Wendy's over cookout? Well, we didn't for a long time. And for a while it was cookout every single time and so eventually we exhausted the menu there that's uh and not that there's a lot on the menu in the first place so just that basically kind of an exotic wendy's menu right you know we just yeah we're trying to branch out with some kind of asian fusion burger going on there now? They have a really nice guacamole chicken sandwich that's not bad. Yeah. Let me actually, let me say, I agree that the food is garbage.

That's certainly not up for debate. Well, garbage food is garbage food. And I don't mean to malign Wendy's, but if you're going to eat garbage food, And I don't mean to malign Wendy's, but if you're going to eat garbage food, typically I would choose to find a good local place. So at least you're sacrificing yourself on the cholesterol sword of your own local economy. But now you say you started at Cookout, you exhausted the menu there. Is there really stuff you can get at Wendy's that you can't get at your local diner?

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just kind of a little bit different. It's not, yeah, it's not completely different. In fact, the milkshakes, I'm sorry for all the buzz marketing of Cookout, by the way, but they have really, really good milkshakes. So if we want milkshakes, we'll go back there. Let me ask you this. Does Cookout have table service? No, no, this is actually, it's a, it's one of those kinds of weird tiny places that has a drive-thru on both sides and nowhere. They don't have any seating. So you, you drive through and

then most people will just kind of stand around outside or we'll just sit in the car. We almost always just park right outside and just sit in the car. Oh, okay. But I have a different picture here. Yeah, it's not, it's not a diner. It's a, it's not a diner. It is a local place, but it's a local regional chain that's just fast food. They have a specialty? Like everyone goes there for the something smothered something? Best Combo in Durham. Yeah, so they have this. It's called the Cookout Tray, and underneath it, it says the best combo in Durham.

And it's $4, and you can get your main item, which is like a burger or sandwich or whatever. But then you get two sides with it, and they count as a side chicken nuggets and hot dogs and corn dogs. So, yeah, so in theory, for $4, you can get like a hamburger. A hamburger with a side of hot dogs. Yeah, exactly. With a side of two hot dogs. Let me ask you a question. Can you get a hamburger with a side of hamburger?

I have not tried that. Um, I can, I'll, I'll try that next time that I'm there, assuming that I'm ever allowed to go there again. All right. Well, you're not allowed to go to Wendy's again. Let's just stop that right now. All right. We'll start at Wendy's. Isn't's just stop that right now. Sorry, Wendy's.

Isn't there a diner somewhere that you could go? Well, there are no shortage of amazing, you know, great local places here. But typically we're wanting to not be gone for super long. That's partly why we go to these drive-thru places is that we don't, we try not to be gone, you know, the whole night. So it's just faster. So you're afraid that Casey's going to wake up and realize you're not there. And then she's going to be waiting for you with a, with a rolling pin.

Yes. Why don't you, why don't you want to sit and have, have a, have a meal with your friend in the middle of the night? You're you're graduate students. This is what you should be doing. It's like, you know, talking about talking about God and eating a lot of greasy food and watching and watching the sunrise that that basically is what we do um but also because we're graduate students talking about god and not talking about uh medicine or law for example

we don't have very much money to spend so uh typically we're uh we're trying to yeah you just told me you could get a hamburger between two hamburgers for $3 at Cookout. Yeah, yeah. All right. Casey, what's the problem with this behavior? Frankly, I feel like I want to meet him at this place. I know. Well, I will say I, too, like the milkshakes there.

They are indeed delicious. And I am not, like the milkshakes there. They are they are indeed delicious. And I am not against fast food in and of itself. I like the occasional fattening sweet treat. But there's there's three big problems. We have very limited finances. And quite frankly, these runs add up to be a lot extra per month than what I think that we can afford with being the only person working. So I can support Matt while he's in school. I love working. I would be working whether Matt was working or not, but it does support him. So he doesn't have to stress about finances while he's

studying. He has household responsibilities that often get put on the back burner or don't get finished before he goes out and does these. So then I can sort of deal with it. What kind of responsibilities? back burner or don't get finished before he goes out and does these. So then I can sort of deal with it. What kind of responsibilities? So Matt's big responsibilities at home are he does the dishes, takes out the trash and the recycling. And just generally, I ask that he just sort of picks up after himself. I like cleaning. Forget it, that's never going to happen. I know, I can find little trails of where he has been based on books and shoes and cardigans. So I understand that.

And then there's the third of just sort of the health concern. I mean, that's probably the least of the three of these issues. But it's a lot of calories and a lot of fat to be taking in extra per week. When I cook dinner every night, really not super healthy things, but wholesome and fresh. We try to shop consciously here. few things, but wholesome and fresh. We try to shop consciously here. It's a lot easier to think to shop and cook carefully than it is to actually go out and it's still sort of work within a budget. So it's not like, you know, we are starving. I mean, we cook really good food. So these are not meals that Matt is engaging in. They're really just expensive late night snacks

that add up. And I don't think that they're an essential financial or health need. So he's not completing his chores before he goes out. He's spending more than his allowance. Unhealthfully. Yes. Okay. And this is your son we're talking about? No, he is my spouse.

Oh, I see. All right. Let me get the facts. Let me get these. Let me get the facts. Let me get the facts. I understand the perception. I understand the theory. I understand the practice.

Facts. How many nights a week does he do this? Casey? I would say. I said Casey, sir. I would say the average is twice a week. Sometimes it's less. But I think if Matt was also going to be honest, in times of stress, so exams or when papers are due, these trips will sometimes increase to more like three times a week.

But I would say a fair average during the school year is twice a week. How much money do you spend, Matt, when you go do one of these things, one of these, these grease runs, right? Um, I would say if, if I'm just getting a milkshake, those are, uh,

about $3. No, it's just a milkshake, sir. Uh, that's exactly right. No, often it is just a milkshake,

but when I do get, you know, so as you heard, the best combo in Durham is, is $4. So which, you know, with checks and everything,

it probably, you know, comes out to less than $5. But at Wendy's, this is embarrassing. At Wendy's, it's probably about $6, you know, maybe a little over $6. Oh, really? So Wendy's, you're paying more. You're paying a premium.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are, yeah. If I could add also, it is a major point of contention in this as to what the average comes out to per week. It's not. How could it be a point of contention? It's math. Because because we're both trying to do averages because, you know, I might go three weeks and not go at all. But then Casey's right that in, you know, at a more stressful time, there have been times where I've gone two or three times a week.

That does happen. But I do have I didn't, I guess, know how to officially submit it as evidence, but I did look through our bank record for the last semester. And objectively, on our bank statement, there were 12 Wendy's or cookout runs in a 16-week period. And then I also should add that I would guess I paid in cash, not often, but when I have cash with me, probably four to six times. Very sneaky. Somewhere around that. All right, so six, what is it, about six times a month, would you say?

No, I'd say less than that. I would say about four or five times. Sir, that was not possible based on the information that Casey gave me. It's not possible even based on what you told me. Because a semester is about three months, right? It's 16 weeks. 16 weeks. All right.

Hang on. Let me get out my trusty lunch meat abacus here. Have you ever had that? That should be the specialty of the cookout the lunch meat abacus so uh uh all right so you so about 20 times uh 16 weeks so that's one and a quarter times per week that and again i would like to add that it certainly fluctuates. So I would say... Which is five times per month on average, based on the data that you've given me.

That's probably close, yeah. And you say that it's $5 for the combo at Cookout, $6 for the combo at Wendy's, let's say $5.50 for the food. Milkshake is $4 at cookout six dollars for the combo at wendy's let's say 550 for the food milkshake is four dollars at cookout uh no it's about three about three okay and at wendy's you get a you get a gallon of ice cream for a 50 cents or something uh no i don't ever get that at wendy's it's always just uh yeah that's six dollar combo a 70 a 75 ounce soda right right is that no what are you drinking as a beverage at wendy's sir uh it's either uh

water or lemonade water or lemonade all right and and so all right so 550 so we'll say an average of hang on hang on hang on 35 a month what percentage of that sounds about right what what well that's because it is right i did the math i used i used a tool okay this isn't theology there are answers here it's so so great. So $35 a month, what percentage of your monthly budget would that be? Roughly speaking, I don't want to, I don't, you know, I already have all your bank records and background reports in front of me and I don't need the rest of the podcast audience to hear, but you know, is that a big, is that a big chunk of your monthly budget or what? I'm not sure. I would say it's probably maybe six or 7%.

Okay. Six or 7%, not unsizable. That would be high. I think, right. You have a part-time job, sir? Casey and I are wedding photographers and we do weddings, portraits. And so, so that, that takes, it's, that also is very uneven, but you know, that comes out to definitely some, some weeks, you weeks, 10 hours, 15 hours, some weeks it might be none at all. You and Casey do photography together. Yes, it's a joint effort. It's not Matt's work. It's a joint

effort or is it that you're doing the photography and Matt holds up the little old gunpowder flash? No, we both shoot equally and we both edit our own work. And I do more of the client relations and I do all of the social media and blogging. So I do actually a little bit more of the photography business than Matt does, but Matt does shoot and edit all of

his work. Okay. So that factors into your whole monthly budget thing. Right. Yes. And it varies. I mean, in the summers we make more in the winter we make less. So it varies a little bit. But yes, it sort of goes into our regular income. Would you say that that that Matt's share routinely meets or exceeds thirty five dollars per month? I would say it definitely exceeds thirty five dollars per month? I would say it definitely exceeds $35 per month. Okay. So this whole, this whole argument about you supporting him financially and therefore you can control what he eats, that kind of, that kind of has to be dismissed. Wouldn't you say Casey, can we throw that one away? So let me, let me elaborate on that a little bit. So I think Matt and I, is this really, just when you Is this really... Just when you talk about this...

No, you know what? I'll allow it. Please go ahead. I'm not going to... Okay. I think it's significant. So Matt and I have the agreement that regardless of who's making money, it is definitely our money, regardless of who's putting in there.

I was finishing school. Matt worked for me while I was doing school. I hope for the rest of our lives, that's how we view our finances, that regardless of who is putting in what and how much, it is equally ours. So I think with that, we should equally get to say what we think should be used with that money. So I would like to see it happen. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a quick question. Matt worked while you were going to school. Is that what Matt was trying to say when I yelled at him before? I don't think that's what he was trying to say, but it is true. Okay. What were you, what were you studying? I was repping

at my undergrad studying journalism. Okay. And Matt was working at that time. What was his job then? He worked in the library at the university. Okay. And what food did he allow you to eat during that time? We ate at home a lot. So groceries and cooked. Did he tell you what to eat and what not to eat? No. I like cooking. What's your favorite thing to cook? Ooh, I love making chicken cacciatore.

My dad taught me. Ooh, what's your secret? Red wine. A lot of it. And then what do you cook with? Tomatoes, chicken, veggies, simmer. It's great. Okay.

And it sounds delicious, by the way. So I interrupted you. You were going to say what you would like to see happen is what? Sure. So what I would like to see happen is I certainly do not want to cut off these fast food runs altogether. The conflict is that Matt wants to be able to go and spend as much, whatever his whimsy may be. What I would like to see is a little bit of structure, because without that structure, Matt can go up to three times a week. And by the end of the month,

we spent $30 on milkshakes and burgers. So I would like to see a set allowance. I suggest $10 a month that he can spread out whenever he wants. But for him, I think that conflicts with his ability to go frequently and spend and get what he wants at each trip. Well, let me assure you, if you keep eating at Wendy's, you will be going frequently. There you go. Tee hee. $10 a month is what you propose as a monthly allowance? Yes, and I would also like it with the expectation that his household responsibilities need to

be done before he goes. So $10 a month, one visit to the cookout with a side of high expectations. There you go. One visit to the cookout with a side of high expectations. There you go. Is it true, Matt, that your household duties are being neglected because of your addiction to cheeseburgers and milkshakes? I don't think that's true. I think that it is true that I – Casey's absolutely right that sometimes things don't get done, and that's my fault. I don't think the reason for that is these late night cookout runs. What would be the reason? I think the reason generally is

having time stretched out or I'm sorry, basically not, not managing, uh, time well enough and, and essentially just getting overwhelmed and distracted with other things and not making it into problems. What other things, what other things are you doing aside from studying about God? I mean, studying about God, it might be more complicated than you might realize. I'm just kidding. It's pretty straightforward. No, it's just a very demanding program. It just takes a lot of time.

Are you taking classes as well? Is that what's going on? Obviously. Yes. You're not just doing research, right? No, no, no. This is a full-time load. I have four classes a semester. And oftentimes I have, this is, you know, this would be a completely other episode of Judge John Hodgman, but I occasionally have different projects that I'm working on at school, various, you know, organizing, sort of community organizing type things,

different events for advocacy, activism, that kind of things that fill up a lot of the day. So Matt, you ever, you ever take Casey to the cookout? My friend Scott and I were actually talking about this today and we were trying to think about when these runs started. And we realized that actually before it was just Scott and I going on these, it used to be more of a friend activity where Casey, Scott, our friends, Danny and Justin and Nate and Anuma, these other people would go all together to cook out. And then as the years, you know, kind of got on, this became something that Scott and I do is kind of a special,

you know, just kind of tradition in our friendship. But I did want to add that Casey is always, always welcome to come on these things. It's not a, it's not a bro out, you know, just the two of us kind of time. It's just that we go late at night and understandably Casey's needing to sleep at that time. Um, but it's, it's, uh, she does occasionally come with us. Um, and she really likes that. Um, but typically it's just the two of us. Casey, why did you stop going to the cookout? They go really late, and it's just too late for me. Did you used to go that late? We didn't used to go that late. It used to be a lot earlier, and I think as the semesters build on and the school gets more intense, they end up going later and later as a break from school.

And when you go to bed at 9 p.m., is that every night or is that weekday nights? That's mostly weekday nights. Weekends, I'm up a little bit later. Until when? 1030, depending on what's happening. I think I have everything I need to make my decision. I'm going to go into chambers and start pouring cheer wine down my throat as fast as I can. I will come back and make my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Well, Matthew, you seemed cheered by Judge Hodgman's mention of cheer wine. How are you feeling about your chances in the case? You know, I'm not sure. I came into it feeling apprehensive. I was a little bit, I guess I'm a little anxious that I didn't get to say some of the reasons I was hoping to

say, but I trust the judge. I trust his judgment. There were some other things I wanted to add, but I trust his abilities. Casey, how are you feeling right now? You know, I'm feeling okay. I also trust the judge's viewpoints and decision. I think that Matt and I both bring some legitimate points, although I think mine are maybe a little bit more thorough and maybe responsible, but that might not be what's necessarily best. I don't know.

Very well. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Guys, I'm not going to ask you why you were married so young compared to the national average of people that I know. And the reason I won't ask is because it's clear that it is a happy marriage. You guys like each other a lot. I presume you also love each other a lot. They're so true. Okay. All right. But now I'm talking about your marriage. No, it's plain on its face. And it seems like it is going to be a successful marriage because you already understand the basic give and take, which is it's not my money. It's our money.

You're willing to split everything 50-50. You have reasonable expectations for each other that sometimes you meet and sometimes you don't meet. But there is obviously forgiveness. You're in it together. There's a trade-off. Matt, you know, shelled some books at the library and got high in the stacks while you were going to journalism school. Casey has been event planning while Matt comes to Jesus, and it's all going to work out great. But it is unusual, you unusual. I think that particularly for people who have not begun careers, to be married at this age is a little bit of a throwback to a few decades ago. This doesn't happen all that often, unless you've discovered among your peers

is this new, brand new, let's get married young phase. But for the most part, you're in a phase in your life where typically people who are graduate students and undergraduates and recent graduates are going out to the cookout every night while drunk and high. And and not and not being even 7% as responsible, not even meeting 7% of your responsibility budget. And I appreciate that. And I think it's fantastic. Matt, you should work very hard to make sure that Casey is happy in your life because she is clearly devoted to you

and she's making chicken cacciatore and working very hard so that you can learn about God and get people to stop being mean to one another overseas. I think that's terrific. But Casey, you know, I am going to encourage you to not jump the gun in terms of, look, I'm 41 years old. in terms of, look, I'm 41 years old. I'm an actual middle-aged person with a marriage that I'm very happy and proud of and a family that I feel terrific about.

And even I have not stopped going to the cookout, I'm glad to say, as I think is written on my gut and complexion every day. as I think is written on my gut and complexion every day. You know, I think that to live within a budget is an incredibly important thing to learn to do and to be financially responsible is very, very important indeed. But the issue of suggesting that your husband's got to stay home and deny himself,

what I think is really kind of a meager indulgence on the whole is, I think, is perhaps asking a bit too much. Your proposed budget of $10 a month would get him one visit to the cookout per month, which may be what you would like, but I don't think is really going to provide 50-50 happiness for both of you going forward. I think that you should listen seriously when your husband says, I don't want to have a $10 budget to go to the cookout and say to my friend, I can't go this week because my wife is asleep at home.

Because my wife was asleep at home. That, I think, tilts the balance of happiness a little off and comes down as punitive at a time in his life where, as a graduate student, he is working late and thinking a lot and wants to talk things over late at night. It is a natural thing to do. And I think a not unhealthy thing for him to do at the amount that we're talking about. I think three times a week, I'm with you on that. That goes a little far. Two times a week, maybe pushing it. But one time a week, four times a month was a reduction of about two times per month in your budget. And I think would be a totally reasonable thing to do for him to have, uh, a, a modest meal in the middle of the night, uh, with his deadbeat friend, Scott. Sure. Um, but you and you, you and I are not here, here. You and I are not here to set a budget and behavior for Matt. He is a grown human who should be able to who should be able to negotiate with his wife, something that seems more or less reasonable. I recommend once a week at a minimum for eating these hamburgers you guys will have to, you know, wait a minute, no, I'm the judge

once a week, Matt, you're going to go to this place once a week and it's going to be the same night every week and you're going to see Scott and you're going to have a good time and you're going to come home you understand what I'm saying? And you're going to limit what you're doing for the sake of your wife's happiness okay? Yes what you're doing for the sake of your wife's happiness. Okay? Yes. All right. So this is no more than one regularly scheduled same time every week?

I recommend scheduling it regularly because otherwise you're going to go into this death spiral of three to four times a week because you didn't plan it out. Which I think is, you know, you go into an addictive death spiral of cheer wine and shame that you don't want to be getting into. Do you know what I mean?

But I'm going to tell you something right now, Casey. You're getting off scot-free with this. No way. I think that it's fantastic that you are getting as much sleep as you're getting. I envy you. Oh, thank you. I envy you dramatically. But I now institute that the money that you save

and even take some more money out of your budget to one night a week where you two go out and stay up to 11 p.m. minimum. Oh my gosh, Matt is so happy right now. It's true. Because I can sense that Matt really wants to spend time with you. And it is hard if you go to bed that early. And look, just as Matt needs to do the things

in his life individually in order to make sure he's happy and fulfilled and thoroughly lubricated with grease from the cookout or whatever, you also have to do the things in your life that make you happy, which means getting as much sleep as you want and doing the other things that give you great pleasure and cooking and everything else.

That's great. And then you've got to do the two things together that make you happy together. And one of those things has to be spending time together like young people that you are, which means going out on a date once a week, staying up till 11 p.m. Okay.

That is the trade-off. This is the sound of a gavel. This is the sound of me guzzling cheer wine. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Casey, how do you feel about the judge's wisdom? You know, I think that this was a really fair and well-balanced ruling. I like that there was the suggestions for Matt,

but I also like that there was the suggestions for me. I think that it will serve me and Matt well for me to try to stay up like a grown ass adult once a week. So I can try to do that and I will do that. Matt, how do you feel? I like the ruling. I'm still a little curious about if Casey doesn't get around to coming out that week. Does that mean I can use that second cookout run? I don't know.

I know the judge is already back in his chambers now but you mean like with your side girlfriend uh no you well if scott counts as my side girlfriend which he kind of is i mean you are making out yeah um but no i i'm happy with with the rule with one exception is which is that uh did he does that mean he ruled in casey's favor i didn't maybe i missed it I missed it, but did he rule in favor of the defendant or the complainant? What, you think that's what, this is a compromise ruling. He gave you some wisdom.

Exactly. Which is what I wanted. I just, I was just curious. Trent, you know what? Insisting on winning is no way to have a happy marriage, sir. You're right. I agree. You should be lucky I'm letting you put on your big boy pants and go to the cookout once a week. Any more lip for me or you're going to go straight to your room.

Yeah, no more lip for me, your honor. You got it. I'm punishing you both equally, like you deserve. So we both lost. Now go out there and have fun, you crazy equally like you deserve. So we both lost. Now go out there and have fun, you crazy kids. We will. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Matt, Casey, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thanks so much. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen?

Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore.

It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need.

Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25%

this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M- faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O.

Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Oh, man, Judge Hodgman, I could really go for. I'm thinking a milkshake, a square hamburger, some broken dreams and a side of milkshakes. Yes, please. I came down pretty hard on Wendy's in that one. Actually, I always used to enjoy Wendy's because their hamburgers were square.

I like it when you do things differently. I always used to enjoy that you could order single, double, triple. I like the fact that their burgers were modular. You like that these burgers were flat pack, like Ikea furniture. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They're burgers for the Dwell Magazine subscriber.

All you need to enjoy a Wendy's hamburger is a small, disposable hex wrench. Yeah. And so, you know, I haven't eaten there in a long time, and maybe it's fantastic. So, you know, look, Wendy's, don't get mad. You're a huge multinational corporation. Why am I apologizing to you? Oh, right, because I live in America now. Let's clear the docket, shall we?

Let's. Here's something from Tom. He writes, My friend Alex and I are best friends who met in sixth grade over 15 years ago. I was once in a serious but horrible relationship. My girlfriend and Alex did not get along, and Alex was opposed to the relationship. When I planned to follow my girlfriend on a cross-country move, Alex decided he had to take action. He created a support group, HEART.

Hoosiers Everywhere aligned to rescue Tom. He printed t-shirts and distributed them among friends and family. He framed a picture of everyone wearing the shirts and gave it to Tom as a Christmas present, imploring him not to make the move. I threw away the framed photo and did not heed Alex's advice. However, the girlfriend and I parted ways not long after the move, and now I admit the relationship was a disaster. I ask for a declaratory judgment. One, was Alex right to create Hart?

Two, now that our friends and siblings are getting married, we need to know if it is ever acceptable to intervene in their ill-fated relationships. We understand it is usually best to keep quiet, but what if, as was in my case, their relationship is truly horrible and doomed? No, your relationship did not work out. But it was not truly horrible and doomed in the sense that I presume no one lost their life or their life savings to an international con artiste. I did, but it was unrelated to this relationship. Oh, that's right. Well, and I'm the one who

stole the money, so keep it all on the MaxFun family. I didn't recognize you now that you've grown that mustache, but you are the guy who stole the money. I should have, you know what, I should have been tipped off by the fact that you're wearing that all-black catsuit

and you were doing the same thing before. I guess just the mustache was enough to confuse me. Yeah, because when I did it, I was wearing my old mustache. Right. Gotcha. No, Tom, you had a bad relationship and these things happen and you grow and you learn from them. happen and you grow and you learn from them. And generally speaking, if you're still able to write lightheartedly about it on email to a podcast, then probably everything worked out fine. Now, there are situations, I mean, I think your instinct is right. For the most part, you do not want to intervene. I think there are situations where intervention of some kind

is not only acceptable, but maybe imperative. So, for example, if you know that your friend's significant other or girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever is cheating on them or lying to them or doing something that is going to be destructive to themselves or to your friend, obviously, if a life is at stake or a livelihood is at stake, or if you just really feel that the person is wrong, you can definitely risk the friendship by taking that person aside and saying, I'll accept what you're doing, but I think you need to rethink this. And then, you know, you'll probably destroy that friendship. But those should be deployed very, very sparingly, those maneuvers.

And you should recognize that they have consequences. And under no circumstances should you ever print up T-shirts maligning your friend's girlfriend or boyfriend and passing them out to everyone they know. That is an absolutely ineffective and frankly creepy thing to do. I declare judgment against Alex and the Hoosiers everywhere aligned to rescue Tom, because it was such a gross overstep, one that was not done in any sort of spirit of friendship, but simple mean-spiritedness. Because it happened, Tom, that this did not work out between you and this young woman. But what if it did work out, and then you got married? And then you had to live with the fact that Alex printed up these T-shirts,

you would never be able to see him again in your life, and he wouldn't be able to see you either. Anyway, sorry about that, Alex. You did a mean thing. Hope you learned something from it. Tom, good luck with whatever relationship you're in now. I think it's a terrible mistake.

Hey, I want to mention that we have a new podcast at MaximumFun.org, an amazing, totally wonderful, transporting new podcast called The Memory Palace. It's produced by this. Did I know about this one, Jesse?

No, you didn't know about this. Did you tell me about it and I forgot it? This is the first time I am mentioning this publicly ever. Oh, great. Tell me more. What is it called? As we record this, there will probably be public information by the time this is heard. Oh, great. Tell me more. What is it called? As we record this, there will probably be public information by the time this is heard. Oh, okay.

It's called The Memory Palace. It's produced by a brilliant producer named Nate DiMaio, and it is a monthly series of short stories from history. And that makes it sound terrible, but it is absolutely captivating and amazing. I really could care less about history. I think I'll need to be 50 years old and hate my wife more before I start watching the History Channel or whatever. But it is absolutely, it's beautiful, it's funny. Every story that you hear on this podcast will be one that

you want to tell everyone you know about and i know this because this happened to me and we're really really proud to be adding it to maximumfund.org so go into your itunes and give it a listen the episodes are short there's even one where i have chosen a couple of my favorite stories and talked a little bit about them. It's an absolutely spectacular, special gem of a podcast, and we're really proud to make it a part of our network. If you want to submit a case to Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. And please do it, not just for you, but for all of us. You're making the world a better place by allowing Judge Sean Hodgman to stretch out his wisdom wings

and flap around a little bit. My wisdom wings. We'll talk to you next time, my Judge Sean Hodgman. I look forward to grasping you with my justice talons. And giving you good luck with my jurisprudence poop falling on your head.

The judge, John Hodgman podcast is a production of maximum fun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at maximum fun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show,

join the conversation on our forum at Forum.MaximumFun.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.