Judge John Hodgman - No Acquitting for Taste

Episode Date: April 27, 2016

Abtin brings the case against his girlfriend Kelsey over the decor in their new apartment. Abtin wants to go modern and classy. Kelsey says that would be boring and wants furnishings that are more quirky and unique.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, no acquitting for taste. Obden brings the case against his girlfriend Kelsey over the decor in their new apartment. Obden wants to go modern and classy. Kelsey says that would be boring and wants furnishings that are more quirky and unique. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Long ago in days of yore, it all began with a god named Thor. There were Vikings and boats and some plans for a furniture store. It's not a bodega, it's not

a mall. And they sell things for courtrooms that are smaller than mine as if there were courtrooms smaller than mine. Unnamed store. Just some oak and some pine and a handful of Norsemen. Unnamed store. Selling furniture for college kids and divorced men. Everyone has a court, but if you don't have a court, you can buy one there. Bill, Jesse, Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he abhors all furniture? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he abhors all furniture? I do.

Yes, I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Obden and Kelsey, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I sang, I dare say beautifully, before walking into this courtroom. Kelsey, you have been brought into this court against your will by Obden. You have the choice to either guess or

make Obden guess first, but you will guess. I'll make Obden guess first. I think she's playing this game, Jesse. I think she's going to play this game at a next level. Obden, you got it? Unfortunately, no. I'm gonna guess

it is some sort of commercial for a furniture store. Okay, I'll let that be a guess. Kelsey, what is your guess? My guess isn't any better. I think it's probably something mocking IKEA commercial? That is a

guess. And both guesses are... Well, one guess is wrong. One guess is mostly wrong. And therefore I will say all guesses are wrong. Of course,

the song that I was singing is called Ikea. It is not an official Ikea song. And we are going to discuss Ikea in this case because it comes up in your petition. And we are in no way sponsored by Ikea, as I think it will become clear as we go forward. They would not pay for this one. The song is called Ikea. It is not an official song of ikea

it is a song by my dear friend and friend of this court and maximum fund jonathan colton a singer songwriter uh and uh it's an amazing song that you can get at his website jonathan colton.com that is a plug and of course when i'm singing unnamed store i would be singing ikea very funny song um not as not a direct pair i don't think that ikea does any television advertising i don't even i don't i think they don't need to anymore it's the biggest furniture retailer in the world and they're certainly not sponsoring any podcasts and they certainly have got quite a bit of your money isn't that so often, Optin? I would say so. Yes, Judge.

All right. So here's the situation. You, and correct me where I'm wrong, because I want to make sure I understand this case. You and Kelsey have moved in together. Correct. Where do you live? Arlington, Virginia. Arlington, Virginia.

I don't know that place very well. Is it near dc it is it's one metro stop from the first dc metro stop so it's extremely close got it and you two are uh unmarried correct and you know and you know my you know this court's position on unmarried couples cohabitating yes i do and that's fine it's established law. If you've not listened before, the court takes the position that people can do whatever they like, but to our mind, and I'm using the courtroom way, to my mind, cohabitating without being married is all of the dull drudgery of marriage, including sleeping with each other's farts all the time, and all of the excitement of becoming a financial partnership without any of the protections

that marriage affords you thereafter. But it's your choice. I've gotten a couple of angry letters lately from long-term cohabitating partners. And to them, I say, if you feel that i've insulted your lifestyle i apologize uh i'm not talking about adults i'm talking about young people moving in together um and and even then i could i could definitely be wrong are you guys happy happily living together how long have you lived together not very long but pretty happily and how did you meet kelsey um we actually met at our old uh work in san francisco and what was your old work um it was um sounds like you're making it up now i'm not but it was the federal

government and i don't know how specific we're supposed to be but um it sounds like they're in the cia yeah in this it sounds like you're assassins. Not quite as cool. But yeah, so we met at work and we both kind of bonded over being returned Peace Corps volunteers. Ah. Oh, I see. In different places. Peace Corps volunteers. Right.

I'm tapping the side of my nose just so you guys know. Oh, no. All of the stereotypes that come with that, I guess. Do you mean to say you were both in the Peace Corps, not together, but you met when you came back stateside, and now you currently work for a branch of the federal government that you cannot name? Yes. Now separate branches, luckily. Luckily, we don't still work together and live together, because that would be entirely too much. That would be against the federal law? Maybe. If one of us is in the supervisory position to the other one.

Oh, I see. And where were you guys stationed in the Peace Corps? Bobton? I was in Bulgaria, Eastern Europe. And what were you doing in Bulgaria for peace? I was a community and organizational development volunteer. I worked with a couple of nonprofit youth, teaching them parliamentary procedure and that sort of stuff for student government. I see.

And that's a good story. Kelsey, where were you stationed and what did you do? I was in Rwanda and I mostly was a teacher for computer science. Isn't that, thank you both for your service, let me just say. And Abdin, I detect a very beautiful accent.

Indeed. Thank you for calling it beautiful. I think it's really cute too. Yeah. Were you born in the United States? I was not. I was born and lived in Iran for most of my adolescence years. Got it.

Okay. And then you emigrated with your family. Correct. So you're an Iranian-born person who spent some time pretending to do stuff in Bulgaria for the federal government. And now you come back to work in an unnamed capacity for an unnamed federal agency outside of DC. Got it. Summed up beautifully.

I think I understand. No, it's lovely to meet you both. And Kelsey, you're, I presume you are also a, a first-class computer hacker. Wow.

Okay. No more talk. No more talk i i want to live to see my children before the podcast is over and i know the federal government is listening and i have a few drones outside my window right now which is a weird coincidence anyway so but you are two young federal agents in love. Yes. Outside of DC. And this is a dispute over the decor of your new apartment. Abdin, what is the problem with the decor? So our apartment is in a high-rise tower, and there's a lot of them around here, around where we live. And it's very modern looking and sleek and i want the furniture and the decor of the apartment to reflect that and be very sleek

and mostly new furniture i understand the climate compact of having a new furniture but i think it's worth it because it's our first apartment together and it'll be nice to have nice things not that we can afford many nice things but as much as we can and Kelsey I'll let her some of her own argument actually you know what you're the best living we've ever had on the show thank you very much for doing that Kelsey just shortened to the point and then he hands it off you guys are gonna live very happily together even unmarried what's the problem with sleek and modern i think that it's hard to call just basic ikea furniture sleek and modern it's it's basic ikea furniture just because it's like black and white colored and a little bit boring doesn't make it either sleek or modern and who bought the furniture aptin bought it all oh excuse me well we paid for it together

he just picked out all of it wow what were the circumstances of that um so busy lifestyle i have already finished my graduate degree but but Kelsey is currently in law school and working full time. So once she moved to D.C. before me a few months, like three months before me. Right. And so when we decided to move in together, I moved out here. I had more free time. So I picked up a lot of furniture and she said she doesn't care as long as whatever I pick, it's fine. And so I picked it and we paid half and half for it. Yeah. See, now, Kelsey, you're learning the wisdom of the Judge John Hodgman law.

You are halfway into a bunch of furniture you do not like. And if something were going wrong in your relationship, you're going to have to split up that terrible furniture. Oh, he can have it. If it's over, he can have it all. I won't even miss it. if it's over he can have it all i won't even miss it kelsey uh when you imagine your perfect room and the vision board of your of your mind what kind of what kind of extra stuff you want to have in there um well so i i like more unique things and i really miss my apartment in San Francisco because it was... Describe that to me.

Well, it was an older building and I had the really cool, like, I don't know what the name for it is, but like the architecture in San Francisco where the windows kind of go like half circle outwards. So I had really big like windows. Bay windows. Yeah, bay windows. outwards so i had really big like windows yeah big windows and i had um i had a hanging piece of driftwood that i really liked in my window where did you get the driftwood i found it on the beach and i drilled a hole in it and i put an air plant in it um excuse me you put a what in it it's called an air plant thank you judge because she has been referring to this thing as an air plant as if it's a common known thing.

Oh, they are. They're very commonly known. Air plants. Yeah, I know what an air plant is. And my four-year-old son got one as a party favorite. They're the coolest. They don't need any soil. You just spray them with a squirt bottle.

Wow. need any soil you just spray them with a squirt bottle um wow talonsia bromeliads unique exotic and low maintenance air plants make for beautiful modern home decor and unusual gifts that comes that comes from airplant supply co.com you had a terrarium i had a terrarium that was also hanging in the window yeah and so i guess just a combination of cool things. So we both travel a lot and can bring back really cool and interesting stuff from the places that we travel. But almost all the stuff that I have,

it's like down in a drawer because, well, Optum doesn't like clutter very much. And I just haven't gotten around to decorating with things. Why don't you want your wonderful girlfriend to bring a lot of plants and old wood into your home? Judge, I submitted

a picture of a piece of dried wood that currently sits on top of our fireplace. Do you think this court has never seen a piece of dried wood before, sir? Alright, I'll look at your picture. There's also a picture that we submitted

of a llama painting that my roommate painted for me. And it's the coolest painting. It's a llama with a scarf. And as soon as we moved in, he said, we are not hanging that on the wall. That looks, that llama looks terrifying to me, Judge.

You heard my yell of terror. Of course, all of these images will be available on the Judge John Hodgman page of MaximumFun.org, but people can judge for themselves, but you know, llamas, it's hard for me to imagine finding a way to make a llama look more terrifying

than it is. It has a scarf on, though. Not only does it have a scarf, but the llama is smiling in a malicious way and is standing in front of what would seem to be an evergreen-filled horizon topped with two gently floating hot air balloons. I have a question. You said your friend gave you this llama? She painted it, yes.

Did she? Oh, I was just going to ask if she found it on the beach. No. She may have painted it on the beach, though. That sounds like something she'd do. And then the other piece of evidence you submitted kelsey or no optin you submitted this evidence is the piece is the very piece of driftwood with the what looks to me dying air plant next to the airplane the airplane died but i still like it so i still um i had never heard of it in the drift

i have never heard of an air plant before and i'm fascinated by this idea that a plant that needs that needs no soil that you can just stick into a piece of wood and hang from your ceiling. But I have to tell you that a dead air plant truly looks like an alien invading species. Thank you. That's dead, Optin. I mean, we're thinking we're alive and lush and green. It wasn't that much of an improvement when it was alive. Now let's's take a look, Abdin. You also submitted some evidence of your apartment as it is now,

minus all of the organic material and terrifying paintings that Kelsey wants to put in. And so, here is a picture of your of your home this is not how big is the apartment uh about 700 square feet okay and how many rooms is it just one bedroom so it's one bedroom and then what i'm looking at here is the combo living slash dining area yes right and you've you've got this right it's all ikea furniture it's very spare there's no there's no carpeting of any kind a couple of uh diplomas propped i would say rather precariously on on the mantelpiece of what is this a operating fireplace is it a gas yes it's a gas-operated fireplace. Very, very spare indeed.

I feel as though this is the bare minimum you would need to put into an apartment, let's say, if you were an international spy and needed to live in an apartment to maintain surveillance and in a different apartment across the street. Just that's what's coming to my mind. If I could interrupt here just on that subject, Obden, I can't help but notice that you've sent in a visual example of what you would like the apartment to look like. Maybe you could describe that? Yes, that is a picture of the apartment that the fictional character Sterling Archer lives in. Oh, you mean the fictional character sterling archer lives in oh you mean you mean the fictional uh murderous super spot uh potato per murder as they would say in that show

this is a second i think the second in a row archer shout out for the judge john hodgman podcast i hope you've already signed the petition to get me a guest role on archer i'm all for it so yes here we are in the middle of archer's apartment and it's got it's got a very mid-century modern vibe um that would be my ideal apartment if we made archer money which we do not yet so this is my attempt to achieve Archer look at the lower end of disposable furniture company. So what you're going for is the luxury of imaginary

super spy life. And what you have currently is the sad under-furnished depressing luxury, non-luxury of a federal employee for an unnamed agency life indeed we are sitting on a couch called uh lugenvik or however it's pronounced

l-u-g-n-v-i-k l-u-g lugenvik i think sounds about right. And you like, but you like the Ikea. Like, if you had more money, you'd fill it up with more Ikea. Is that right? I don't, I think, I would like to think I will, I have better taste and I will go someplace with more lavish furniture. Because right now, looking at this picture, your apartment basically looks like an unoccupied Airbnb. Like a low-end Airbnb. Yeah, it's got that. It's got all the charms of a room at a Spring Hill Suites.

For going to go ahead and name brands. I feel like this is going my way. Let me ask you, do you have a kitchen in your apartment or do you just go down to the lobby and get something? you have a kitchen in your apartment or you just go down to the lobby and get something you get you get a you get a you get a can of soup from the from the uh from the the pantry that they have there that you heat up in a microwave and bring it back to your room uh we do have a kitchen and it does have stainless steel appliances i was going to take a picture of it and send it but kitchen was dirty on that day that's that's that's just fine obviously the kitchen already came furnished presumably you had no choice in that correct do you intend to like is it because

you do not have enough funds to purchase a carpet or do you or is it a choice to not i just want to i'm not judging i just want to get a sense of well technically i'm always judging but i just wanted to get a sense of whether it is your aesthetic is so spare that you would rather have a bare floor than put in a carpet. He wanted a bare floor. That was part of what we were looking for in an apartment. He wanted hardwood. Right. And any, I don't know, any rug, I feel like he just is like, eh, why?

Would you prefer to not have a carpet at all on the hardwood floor, Abdin? I wouldn't mind having like a nice rug of perhaps Persian or Turkish or Bulgarian origins. No, they're not known for that kind of thing, I'm afraid. Indeed. They don't make good rugs, I'm sorry. It's just not known. It's not thing, I'm afraid. Indeed. They don't make good rugs. I'm sorry. It's just not known. It's not part of their culture in any way.

Darn it. Yeah, I mean, it's like trying to get a pizza slice in New York. It's going to stink no matter where you go. You'd be better off getting some Persian pizza and putting that on the floor, because that's a good carpet. I mean, you have to understand, Kelsey, you might think this is going your way, but there's there, though I don't love the furniture that Obden picked out. It's not to my taste. The idea of just the spareness of it does kind of have a hold on my soul. Oh, no, because I think what I would like is to be able to pick things up from different places that I go, including thrift stores.

Sure, all kinds of beaches and vacant lots. Yeah, if I find something I like, I want to be able to bring it home and put it somewhere in the apartment. And, Obden, you wish to deny her this? This opportunity to help decorate the apartment that she presumably pays half for yes she does pay half for uh absolutely not but i do want to set some ground rules and boundaries uh we also live in the east coast now which i'm sure you know there is a bed bug situation going on on most of the east coast so trip stores kind of freak me out. Well, that's an interesting point. Yes.

As someone who has struggled with bedbugs before and conquered them. What kind of stuff do you want to bring home from thrift stores? I would know it when I see it. Like, I can't think of anything particularly. Just something that catches my eye that I like. Yeah. That's how thrift stores work. Yeah. You never really don't go there i don't know i might want to just go and get a garbage bag of old sheets that were thrown away or maybe a bin of discarded stuffed

animals judge hodren we're gonna have a lot of trouble if you start running down thrift stores i'm not running down thrift stores but jesse thorne my bailiff my bailiff uh what do you recommend with regard to furnishings from thrift stores if bed bugs is a concern uh for you i believe that there are things that can be done to uh alleviate the risk of bedbugs. I can't remember what they are off the top of my head. I think it's steaming them, something like that eliminates bedbugs. Bedbugs, if you are careful, aren't the hardest thing in the world to... Yeah, I can tell you that if it is a piece of clothing, run it on high through the dryer for 20 minutes or longer, and that

will decontaminate it completely of all foreign intruders. And if it is something that is hard, like a picture frame or something like that, and you have to, I mean, bedbugs can get into those little things. and you have to mean bedbugs can get into those little things uh rubbing alcohol if it will not damage the item itself um will uh kill any uh bedbug nymphs and eggs um if it is a piece of furniture that is upholstered even though i recently purchased a sofa from a flea market, it was a big and is a beautiful upholstered vintage sofa that I love very much. It was a big inward breath of and leap of confidence that that was going to be okay. And so far, everything's fine. But yes, those are the things you could do. I think that it would,

I think that as Jesse points out, for most items, particularly decorative items, that is to say pieces of driftwood, other pieces of garbage that you want to use to put on your mantle or whatever, these things can be pretty

well deloused without too much risk. there is more or less an issue of an aesthetic how would you describe kelsey's aesthetic what are you afraid she's going to be bringing in and what are the rules that you'd like to lay down more than one occasion she has mentioned a desire to go and find or purchase from a thrift store a rock to put on our coffee table like a cool rock like crystal yeah whoa kelsey kelsey yeah i'm i'm with you right i like i can see, I like the idea of decorating with natural items.

And when you said a cool rock, I'm like, yeah, I can picture a cool rock. And then you said a crystal. And I'm like, wait, that is the opposite of cool rock. Geodes are kind of cool. Like a geode. But I feel you now. I'm beginning to tell me more tell me more that she wants to bring in Optin

she wants to bring that she has an idea and this kind of was her compromise about a chandelier that just points in all sorts of I kind of want to make one that looks like like a Sputnik chandelier but I want to make it myself what are you going to make it out of first of all

don't say Sputnik chandelier like everyone knows exactly what you're talking about thank you like a ball that has like sticky out oh sticky outie ball chandelier it's hard to describe maybe it looks like a sputnik it's like it's like chrome yeah and it has spikes coming out of it in different directions oh i see yeah okay yeah everyone looks this up. They'll know exactly what I'm talking about. It's like a chrome, typically a chrome ball with fixtures pointing out of it in all directions. And it looks like a... I want to find, either find one at like a thrift store, which would probably be hard to do, or try and make one.

How would you make one without smelting a thing? That's a good question. Plumbing fixtures. But I would figure it a good question plumbing fixtures plumbing fixtures i'm crafty like that sure plumbing fixtures jesse are you are you saying you've made a sputnik chandelier out of out of some pipes no but the prospect appeals to me immensely you are i think you could be very well done if done carefully. I think so as well. This is one of the situations where that I don't know is precedented in Judge John Hodgman legislative history where Bailiff Jesse is really into one

litigant and I am really into another litigant. We're taking sides. It is the time we live in as same as a Supreme Court split decision. That's right. But if we split down the middle then we have to reveal we have to what revert to the previous ruling right and there is none so history requires us to come to some decision judge hodgman i feel like i need to

disclose that uh i just finished reading a book called american junk by mary randolph carter American Junk by Mary Randolph Carter. And I got so excited by its depictions of various thrift store and flea market decor selections that I went onto a popular book purchasing website and purchased not only big city junk and kitchen junk, but also the book Never Stop to Think, Do I Have a Place for This? And For the Love of Old, all follow-up books by the author, Mary Randolph Carter. These are all terrible suggestions. I'm writing this down right now. Who, by the way, was a top stylist at Ralph Lauren? She's no old country grandma, if that's what you're imagining. She knows how to pile junk on side tables in ralph lauren stores for sure yep little round eyeglasses that belong to no one and

books that will never be read and all all that all that kind of eye pollution let me add pollution that that defines the ralph lauren aesthetic as far as i'm concerned sorry ralph loren i think you'll be fine so certainly it's certainly it's hard it's hard to argue in favor of the ikea aesthetic which is junk that you wasted your money on um but that's we'll we'll save this for the verdict uh just out of curiosity, Kelsey, are you crafty? Do you feel you can make a Sputnik chandelier? Yeah. Yeah, I do.

Because of experience you have doing these kinds of things? Or because you just believe it of yourself? I'm pretty crafty. I tend to make different things. And I did so at my old apartment. I just haven't had the time. What are some of the things you made at your old apartment? Oh, my roommate and I did so at my old apartment. I just haven't had the time. Like what are some of the things you, what are some of the things you made at your old apartment?

Oh, my roommate and I, we distressed a bookshelf that we, we found at a garage sale and painted it blue and it looked really cool. It was like a teal, like antique distressed wood bookshelf. It was the best. Right. It seems to me like, you know, it's all coming down to brand names here,

but like, it sounds to me, Abdin, like you're trying to reach dwell magazine by, by way of with the, with the poor tools that Ikea offers you. And it sounds to me that you're kelsey that you're trying to get inside an anthropology catalog would that be fair to say yes that is very accurate yeah because i'm getting

a real picture and it's and it's it's a it's a really hard case because um you have very distinct tastes like kelsey would you like to have some hanging tapestries in there? Oh, for sure. I already have. The moment you said geode, the whole thing came into, came into focus.

But mine would be more authentic than anthropology. Cause I have tapestries from the places I've actually been. Not that I spent $200 on. Yeah, no, the hanging pieces of junk that tell a story of your life. Yes.

I guess my only question here, Judge Hodgman, with your characterization of this situation, is I am not convinced that Obden wants to live in a Dwell magazine lifestyle because I think he's sort of explained a general contempt

for the aesthetic and in fact i wonder if he would not simply prefer to live in i don't know an army barracks no you know that he wants to live in archer's apartment well archer's apartment could very well have a sputnik lamp thank you kindly yeah well it's true it's very mid-century modern i think that i think that obden is trying is trying to figure out what his aesthetic is but generally speaking it does not involve geodes and tapestries that's fair right and i feel like the archcher apartment Sputnik will be done by professional and very beautifully. Do you want your girlfriend to leave you? No, I did not. I was going to say, if I make a Sputnik, it will be beautiful.

All right. We all know that this... Words to live by. All right. We all know that this... Words to live by. We all know that one of my orders will be, yeah, you better make that Sputnik chandelier and post a picture of it. I almost feel like I want to recess this court for the period of time that you're required to make a Sputnik chandelier before I even render my verdict. Because then I will know

just how good you are at Sputniking. It'll be years, Judge. It'll be years. Yeah. That's terrible. But I just have so little time because I go to law school. I have class every evening

and I work 8 to 5.30 and then go to law school. I like I have class every evening and I work eight to five 30 and then go to class six to nine 30. So I don't have very much time for crafting. How do you feel Kelsey, when you go into your home that you share with Optin? And to be honest, in a lot of ways, I feel really grateful because he does a lot of the like house like arranging. I wouldn't say chores because we have a cleaning person, but he'll cook, get like get groceries. I don't know.

He kind of like does the cleaning person just come in and hose it all down because you have the interior of a Honda Element. Yeah, because you have absolutely no of a honda element yeah because you you you have absolutely no textiles of any kind i mean yeah they could possibly do that home and squeegee it out maybe but i mean since you are getting this pushback on your geodes and your tapestries and your hanging plants and your, uh, uh, everything else. Um, when you walk into the home and you know that he would not like to have those things,

does it feel like your home? Um, yeah, it actually does because he's here. Boy, oh boy. Blink twice. Boy, oh boy. Blink twice if you need help.

No, it does feel like a home. It's not the first time. That's not how you're going to win this case. What you're supposed to say. Do you understand? You're supposed to say, I don't feel like I have any way to express myself in my own home. I feel like I'm in an Ikea showroom.

Do you fear that if you allow one air plant, then you're going to lose control and suddenly it's just going to be all air plants? No, I feel like we can limit it to one air plant. And it's sitting dead on our fireplace right now. I can always buy new ones. Yeah. Okay. Get rid of the dead air plant.

Do you fear that that, do you fear that that air plant is going to take over your body? It is pretty foreign looking. Right. I don't know what it does at night. The last thing we need in, i don't know what it does at night the last thing we need in in these dangerous times is an alien air plant taking over the body of a high-level secret agent living in an ikea world often before i go in and make my decision you say there there are certain things that you would like

to prohibit specifically from your apartment? What are they? Anything from Trif Store that is upholstered or has the potential carrying any undesirable bugs or bed bugs. And anything that is too off-putting to a reasonable person who we might have over and they will see what...

That will become a conversation. Well, thank you. What is that? So no conversation pieces. Everyone that comes over is going to be just incredibly bored. You understand the conversation pieces are there to inspire conversation. I ask you this judge,

what does that Lama is going to inspire the conversation to be hey what's that llama doing over there interesting story my old roommate painted that on the beach or found it i'm not sure it inspired look i'll tell you we we would have gotten a lot less out of this case if that llama hadn't scared me. That really provided some good conversation. Speaking of which, your roommate, Kelsey, you and she used to distress bookcases together. She was painting llamas. You guys were dancing around with your Stevie Nicks stuff on,

just living it up in geoland. Do you miss her? I do, a lot. Where is she? She's in medical school now in a different state. Does she have someone in her life who's not letting her let her anthropology flag fly? I don't believe so. All right.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my chambers, which is currently kitted out as the Venture Brothers apartment in the latest season of Venture Brothers. And I will be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Kelsey, it sounds like you're barely home anyway. Why does this matter so much to you? Anyway, why does this matter so much to you? I mean, I guess it would just be nice to be able to have memories of past things that we've done or places that we've been and have that included as part of our home that people can see and, I don't know, that I can see when I walk around.

Objin, I understand that you've purchased the bare minimum amount of furniture necessary for human life. Would it kill you to get like an area rug or something? I'm open to the idea of a rug. Only if you buy an Ikea though. No, if we can afford a nice one. Specifically, I didn't buy an Ikea rug because they look so cheap and polyester. You said you need something Persian. Turkish or Bulgarian. For Bulgarian.

What about maybe Oaxacan? There's another nice rug tradition. I am not familiar with those. I'll look into them. Okay, good. I appreciate that. Hey, do you guys, out of curiosity, do you guys own this apartment or rent? We rent.

But at some point in the future, you might think about owning something, right? Yes. Yeah, you probably are going to want to talk to my Aunt Debbie Miller there in Arlington, right? She's a lifestyle transition specialist. Fantastic. I didn't know that's a thing. Yeah, totally. She's going to help you find a great place. But she can't help you with the furniture. We'll have to see what Judge John Hodgkin has to say about that. We'll be back with more in just a second. Hodger has to say about that. We'll be back with more in just a second. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom lifestyle transition specialist yeah debbie miller arlington virginia and and that's, like, she's a life coach or a real estate agent? I don't understand. She's a real estate agent who works with people, often people who are either moving into their first place or who are moving into, like, a retirement home.

Does she help people with the difficulties of joining lives that had previously been separate. I think that she would be wonderful at doing that. Well, if only we had people like that to refer to her, but unfortunately we just have these weirdos. I think she'd get one look at that llama and just straight out the other side of the door. Here's the thing.

You guys are joining, whether or not you are getting married, you are joining your domestic lives together. obviously love each other, but you're going to be revealing sides to each other that had previously been not purposefully concealed, but just through everyday life. You just didn't know that your girlfriend had a crazy llama painting or that your boyfriend buys cheap furniture. These are things that you're learning about each other now that you're trying to merge uh your lives together and your sense of um aesthetic together uh and you know it's it's a challenge because you you are not wealthy um uh international intrigue doesn't pay what it used to and uh and you've already wasted a bunch of your money on a bunch of junk that you don't like.

Right? Abdin, would you say you love the furniture you have? I do not know. I don't love it. No. And I know how you feel about it. It's all right. Right?

I mean, it's serviceable. Right? I've had Ikea in my life. And they have some fun pieces and they have some nice pieces but generally speaking I've never met someone who was like that was a really good investment I love it and it

has never fallen apart it's not things that I've heard said about Ikea furniture in the past but you had to get stuff in there fast and economically, and you did it. And now you're going to be stuck with this for a while until you can build up the war chest again to start deploying it and making your Spring Hill Suites more of a home.

And in the meantime, Kelsey has some good ideas because she is used to having spent a lot of time living with a similar thrift shoppion, going out and rescuing garbage and fixing it up and turning into decorative pieces, which is a very cost-efficient way to bring some interesting elements into your decorative life. But, and this is a major but, geode. And this is a major but. Geode. Geode. A geode is a beautiful thing. But with a geode comes a lot of extra baggage in the form of hanging tapestries and candles,

pillar candles, distressed wood bookshelves and found garbage hanging from the ceiling Kelsey has a very distinctive and I dare say at the risk of being gendered a feminine right

style decorative style and you uh i think have a very distinctive style which i guess we have to then call male in that who cares if it's ugly i can wash it off easily but the distinctive the the anthropology style that that you are interested in, Kelsey, you can tell I have some reservations about it. Personally, it can go wrong if you are layering in too many goo gaws and found things and little glass balls and doodads and this and that. Do you know what I mean? doodads and this and that's do you know what i mean and and secondly that is a style that is really defined by um how how many things can we put in a pile over here by the phony old time

lp player do you know what i mean and um and and and it also requires a lot it has an emphasis on in in its world, fake vintage, but in your world, real vintage stuff that scares Abded because things might be living in it. So it's, it's really, you know, it's really a style that,

that is, um, designed to cause him anxiety. And also, um, I think can very quickly get out of hand and make it look like you're living in the back of a truck. I'm not saying you have bad style.

I'm just saying that there are risks inherent once you start going down that road. As you see that Abdin, his style also have risks when you go too far and you don't invest in pieces of furniture that you love and care about and bring you happiness when you may spark joy when you touch them, like Maria Kondo says. And it just looks like it looks like a prison in many ways. Looks like a pretty nice prison. Looks like a pretty nice prison. Looks like a white-collar prison. Let's put it that way. But luckily for you both, I think that there's a way to meld these styles for you, Kelsey, to use the incredibly blank slate that Obden has provided you and accent it tastefully and minimally with your found objects,

be they thrift store finds or stuff you pull off a beach or out of a vacant lot. out of a vacant lot. I like, and I think the key here will be for you guys to, for you, Kelsey, to act judiciously and slowly and deliberately and not just start bringing home a bunch of junk, but to let Obden live with a hanging piece of driftwood with an air plant growing in it and let him live with it at its best, like say a living air plant. Because I actually think that that kind of spare environment with a single piece of driftwood has a very wabi-sabi niceness to it that I can picture in my mind that I think you guys might be able to learn to enjoy together.

And I also think that you guys, and this is all life advice, right? I haven't rendered my verdict yet. I also think that you guys should take the benefit of the time that you have of having no money and you can't immediately rectify the terrible mistakes that Abdin made by going to Ikea for all your furniture. can't immediately rectify the terrible mistakes that Abdin made by going to Ikea for all your furniture. To go through some catalogs and go online to interior decoration sites and everything else and start, you know, sort of sitting there and saying, what do you think about that? What do you think about that? What do you think about that? And find things that you can actually kind

of agree on and just agree to be honest with each other. So that you can start finding places where your two different styles can intersect. that Obden's request that I ban specifically a llama painting and also anything else that might spur a conversation is simply too vague and too unreasonable to uphold. Kelsey has to have the opportunity to bring her taste into the apartment. But the caveat is, Kelsey, you have to make a Sputnik chandelier. You said you could do it. I want to see it. I want the listeners to judge Sean Hodgman to be able to see it over at MaximumFun.org. If you make that thing, then you

can hang a llama painting. But until then, llama painting stays under your bed. And in the meantime, Until then, llama painting stays under your bed. And in the meantime, develop your taste together, slowly but surely. You may bring in things from thrift stores so long as you delouse them, but be judicious, be patient, and understand that this takes time before you develop a taste together. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Obden, how are you feeling about the case? I'm feeling okay. Not super disappointed. I feel like Judge was very fair, and given the time constraint, I don't see her building the chandelier for another two to three years, which gives us exactly the time to develop our taste together, and by then, maybe the llama painting will be out of the picture. Yeah. And you know what? chandelier for another two to three years, which gives us exactly the time to develop our taste together. And by then, maybe the llama painting will be out of the picture.

Yeah. And you know what? I have a friend in Oaxaca who's a rug weaver. Let me know and I'll hook you up. She can send you some pictures. You can, you know, you can pick a little something out. Thank you, Bailiff. Kelsey, how are you feeling?

I'm feeling great. This is, first of all, I'm really excited to make this wetneck chandelier, and this just gives me more motivation. Oh, it's happening. I'm pretty excited for you, Kelsey. I think this is going to be a lot of fun. Obden, Kelsey, thanks so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching.

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Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in.

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I-N-Cookware.com. Who produced and edited this program? Julia Smith produced this week's program. It was edited by Mark McConville. It was named by Karen Polowick. Thank you to Karen for naming the show. If you want to name a future episode of Judge John Hodgman, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, join the MaximumFun.org

Facebook group, and follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne, J-E-S-S-E-T-H-O-R-N, and at Hodgman. You can also join us on Reddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com, where there's a lively discussion of every week's program. And you can hashtag it on Twitter, hashtag JJHO. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, big or small, we consider them all. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO, and there you will find easy installation instructions. Speaking of installation, I would like to say Kelsey isn't with us anymore, but I hope she's listening to this now. Before you make that Sputnik chandelier, please don't electrocute yourself or anyone else.

That's a good call. We are not responsible for electrocutions. It's pretty much a given. It's blanketly true for all podcasts, but I especially want to say it now. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Goodbye. Bye. Maximumfun.org

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