Judge John Hodgman - Oculus Miffed

Episode Date: March 9, 2017

Matt brings the case against his girlfriend, Amber. Matt wants to convert their master bedroom into a virtual reality room. But Amber would rather keep the bedroom the way it is. Thank you to Craig Eliason for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week's case, Oculus Mift. Matt brings the case against his girlfriend Amber. Matt wants to convert their master bedroom into a virtual reality room. But Amber would rather keep the bedroom the way it is. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. But Judge John Hodgman was the true obscenity. Judge John Hodgman had removed his clothes every stitch. They were folded neatly in the empty birdbath that was at the center of the back lawn. Naked and grass-stained, he was crawling along about five feet behind the lawnmower, eating the cut grass. Green juice ran down his chin and dripped onto his pendulous belly. And every time the lawnmower rolled around a corner, Judge John Hodgman rose and did an odd skipping jump before prostrating himself again. Stop, Bailiff Jesse Thorne screamed. Stop that. But Judge John Hodgman took no notice. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to

tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God, or whatever. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that recording this episode is the only thing standing between me and the Nintendo Virtual Boy that's just been set up in the lunch break area of my office? I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Matt and Amber, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased when I entered the courtroom? Amber, you are the defendant, so you can guess first, or you can choose to make

a Matt guess first and maybe gain some information from his guess. Amber, what is your guess? I'm going to go first. If I'm going to dive into this pool, I'm going to be the first audience. Well done. Brave Canadian soul that you are. I'll do my best. I think it's the Lawnmower Man. Okay, we'll put that in. The Lawnmower Man.

And Matt, what is your guess? I have to say Lawnmower Man sounds right to me as well. So you're both going to guess Lawnmower Man. right to me as well. So you're both going to guess Lawnmower Man? Yep. Both guesses are correct, and therefore it's a tie. Therefore, neither of you win. Too bad. No.

Finally. Finally. You know, when that guy guessed Ferris Bueller, and I got so mad at him, and I gave it to him, I had a lot of letters from people saying, but you didn't get to give his opposite litigant the chance to guess. What if she had guessed Ferris Bueller, then it would be a tie. And I was like, oh, right. Sometimes, sometimes the pet ants are right. And in this case, I got saved by them. Because the minute you said lawnmower man, I'm like, oh man, these nerds. They know what this is. Because I wasn't expecting you to get it.

Because the Lawnmower Man story by Stephen King has nothing to do with the movie The Lawnmower Man at all. It is a completely different story. That movie is about VR, which is what your case is about. So I purposely did not quote that thing, thinking that I could end Run You by quoting from the original Stephen King story, which is about a literal lawnmower man who follows around a magic lawnmower eating the grass and then uses it to kill a guy as a sacrifice to the pagan god Pan. the grass and then uses it to kill a guy as a sacrifice to the pagan god Pan. This was an early story. Now, can either of you name, if you're such big Stephen King fans, the collection in which this first appeared in a Stephen King book?

I think it was the Night Shift. Oh, you guys are too good. Oh. was the night shift oh you guys are too good oh amber though though you guys tied because you guessed first and because you know so much about stephen king and night shift and because based on the brief that i have reviewed regarding your case your boyfriend's insane. Yes. Though I will hear this case with an open mind, please know that you have received an immediate summary judgment in my heart. Thank you so much.

As I understand it, the two of you live together in Ontario. That is correct. Canada. Yes. In a non-married romantic relationship. That would be correct. All right. And I understand that you have a three-bedroom apartment. It's a three-bedroom house. House. Excuse me. I apologize.

No, that's why I want to, that's just one reason I want to move to Canada. Well, we have a spare bedroom. You can move in. Well, for now you do. Because Matt wants to turn your master bedroom into a virtual reality parlor. Yes. Is that more or less correct? Yeah. I just hope he doesn't want to paint it black and

put yellow lines all over it. Oh, like the holodeck when it's turned off? Yes. That's what he wants. Is he already wearing one of those black catsuits with the ping pong balls all over it? Because that's what I'm picturing. No, he hasn't stooped that low quite yet. So Matt, I love your vibe. This is an incredibly big thing to ask of the woman that you love. So I'm going to let you make your case. First of all, before you tell me the why of this VR room, help me and the listeners understand what you were talking about doing in your master bedroom. All right.

So in the master bedroom, what I want to do is take away all the furniture, have a computer, and set up a VR station, and hopefully a second one as well because we like to play a co-op game. Oh, so that you guys can be together? Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, just have a vr room so there's nothing to trip on or anything like that no but let's say for the moment that some of our listeners have not set

up a vr rig in their home yet what is this going to entail what's it going to look like basically it's just going to be a normal computer tower or two towers. And then there will be two. I'm definitely ordering you to call it the two towers. There will be two black things in the two corners of the room that will monitor where you are in the room. And then we'll have the headset and the controllers. And then you'll have a wire from the headset to the computers, which I hope will mount on the ceiling so we won't have to trip on them.

So you would have wires dropping down from the ceiling to a headset enclosing your eyes and ears. The wires would come down from the ceiling sort of like the spray nozzle at a self-service car wash. You got it. Got it. I think, first of all, this sounds hot. And you would be there in a, obviously, furniture-less room aside from your two towers. Yep, which might be in the closet.

Right, so that you have the full range of motion. And the computer will put into your headset a virtual world that you can explore with your beloved. And that way, for once, you two can be together in your master bedroom. That is correct. Okay. I don't have to say anything to that. What do you do all day, Matt? Aside from dream?

Of electric sheep. Jesse Thorne, I am bowing to you. I watch a lot of TV and play co-op games with Amber quite frequently. And do you have the means? Do you have a job? Do you have the financial means to construct this palace yes we do um i'm a software developer at a startup in town and amber you are also a gamer i am i'm the bigger gamer of the two of us really so are you averse to any vr set or just one that takes

over your whole master bedroom the one that takes over my master bedroom. I'm not opposed to VR, actually. We play it sometimes already. No, you already have. I mean, I guess there's no avoiding mentioning brands, but as I am curious about... Just say it, Virtual Boy. What's your rig so far?

The current rig we have is the PlayStation VR. Yeah, okay. And so that's a PlayStation 4, right? And where is that set up? In fact, I'm going to go, you sent in some evidence, including a very helpful floor plan of your three bedroom home. Yep. House in Canada. Okay. So this is just the upstairs. Yeah. Here are your three bedrooms. You have the master, So this is just the upstairs. Yeah. Here are your three bedrooms.

You have the master, which is the biggest, and then bedroom two and bedroom three. Yeah. But this is not where your current VR rig is now? No, our current VR rig right now is in the living room. Since it's PlayStation VR, you don't need the range of motion that you would need with the one that I want to set up in the master bedroom. Right. We'll go ahead and call it the holodeck. set up in the master bedroom. Right. We'll go ahead and call it the holodeck. The holodeck, yeah. Yeah.

So you're not moving that thing upstairs. You are going to get a whole new rig going. Yeah. We already got the computer. Yeah, we have half of it. Oh, right, because you're going to have a computer, right? Yeah. So you already have the one tower. Yeah.

And are you upgrading your headset as well? Obviously, the PlayStation VR works with PlayStation, right? So this would be a new thing. Yeah. So you already have the one tower. Yeah. And are you upgrading your headset as well? Obviously, the PlayStation VR works with PlayStation, right? So this would be a new thing. Yeah. Just out of curiosity, what's going to be... If I were to grant you all of your virtual dreams, sir, what would be the cost of this whole thing in Canadian dollars, if you don't mind? Including renovations to the room?

Well, I don't know. Are you going to change the textures of the room? Hopefully. Oh, you know what? I appreciate your good manners, but now's the time to let it all out. Tell me your dream. The thing that's going to make me rule in your favor

is your passion and your ability to tell me your dream in such a way that I would be a monster to deny it. So show me the whole thing in your mind. What are you going to change in the room? You're going to put down fake grass to create an artificial environment? Are you going to have smells pumped in? I hope not. Yeah, it is a good idea. Yeah.

Basically, I do want to kind of paint it black and have the yellow lines to make it a true holodeck all around. I thought that was a joke before, but now I understand. No, he was serious. Okay. Should we be hearing this case on Greatest Generation and not Judge John Hodgman?

You're talking about the hit podcast? Yeah. There's a part of me that wonders if all of the virtual reality games that they play will somehow be about them going to either Victorian England or Shakespeare times. Or Robin Hood? Yeah. What games do you want to play, Matt? Obviously Dick Tracy. Obviously.

No doy. Only the number one VR game of all time, Dick Tracy. Actually, I'd be more interested in playing the co-op games that come out for VR. There's no game specifically I want to play at this moment. I'm more into kind of building the tech room of it, and Amber will tend to enjoy the actual games more. I mean, you're looking at playing the greatest VR games of all time.

Dick Tracy, Little Orphan Annie, Buster Brown, the Katzenjammer Kids, Little Nemo in Slumberland. Garfield. You know what, though? I think Matt was in a very sly way making reference to another famous holodeck scenario on the Enterprise-D, which is Jean-Luc Picard playing Dixon Hill, the hard-boiled detective. Did I get you right there, Matt? Yes, you did.

Okay, sorry. I'll leave and get Ben Harrison to come in here. It was some pretty subtle, under-the-radar Canadian deadpan, but I got it finally, and I apologize for not picking up on it immediately. Well, at least I got to list off old-timey comics trips. So it's not even that you want to play the VR game so much, Matt,

although you're happy to do it. You just want to build the rig. Yes. Also, I do enjoy playing the VR. Right. I'm one of those really lucky few that really get into it, especially with the PlayStation VR that we have now. When I'm getting shot at, I'm on of those really lucky few that really get into it. Um, especially with the, the PlayStation VR that we have now,

like when I'm getting shot at, I'm on the ground, like a ball. Yeah. You must not, this is the thing is like to have VR in a living room scenario. And I've thought about this a lot. Cause I'm curious about it.

You got to stand in front of the TV or whatever and you put on your thing and you've got all these sensors around you that are sensing your motion. This means the death to the coffee table industry, doesn't it? You can't play that thing and be tripping over your coffee table. We already don't have a coffee

table. Yeah, I was going to say, it already died a long time ago. Yeah, of course. You've got to be able to fall down to the ground and panic. Yeah. Although the coffee table would be useful to hide behind when you're getting shot at. Or leaning on. Would the coffee table be part of the world? You put some sensors on the coffee table?

No. It's just that if the game already calls for cover, then you can use it as something you can put your hands on so you can actually feel it. It would add another level of realism to the VR. That's called haptic response, right? Yeah. Yeah, I read Ready Player One. You're going to get some treadmills in there so you can walk around in your virtual environments? No, that's why we want the Vive, because that would allow us to walk around in our own pace instead of on the treadmill. All right, that's the thing. I don't know what it is. What is the Vive? The HTC Vive is the other virtual reality that we eventually would like to get.

And it allows you to walk around in a 15 by 15 foot room? Yeah, using those sensors that he was talking about that are in the corners of the room. So in other words, your play field would be 15 by 15. You couldn't walk to an infinite horizon. Yeah. But you could make use of a room that is up to 15 by 15. Yeah. In your active gameplay.

Yeah. And is that why you want to put this thing in the master bedroom instead of the other two bedrooms you have? Exactly. The master bedroom is our biggest room that would facilitate this. It's not 15 by 15 foot, but it's also square as well, allowing it to be

much better an area. And also, it's the only room in the house that could really fit two VR headsets, like two players at the same time. Yeah, so looking now at your evidence, which is available at the same time. So, yeah. So looking now at your evidence, which is available on MaximumFun.org, the Judge John Hodgman page, your three bedrooms,

your master is roughly 12 by 10 feet is more or less squared off. Yeah. And both of your guest bedrooms or second bedrooms are about nine by 12, nine by 13. So they're both a little bit smaller. And you would propose then that once the master is turned into the holodeck, you guys would move into bedroom three or bedroom two. Yes.

And why is that an unacceptable arrangement? Amber? Well, I have a lot of reasons I don't want it to be that way. I think that it's going to be like an inconvenience because the bedroom is, the master bedroom has the master ensuite where the bathroom is. It also has the largest closet, so that's where I go to get all my clothes. That's all for, that's just for computer towers now. Yeah, apparently. Just the computer towers.

It'll be like the server room. I don't want that. And only robots are allowed to use the bathroom from now on. Exactly. Yeah, you have to use the virtual bathroom. We'll just hook you up to some catheter tubes. You'll be fine. Yeah, yeah.

Right. I also don't really like it because the third bedroom, which I think is the one that he would want us to go into, it all looks like a big store and that nice, bright, shiny light is shining in on that room. It's not particularly exciting to look outside. Yes, and in fact, you sent in a picture of the view from that room. Yes. And it faces a little snowy backyard. Yep.

And a desolate field of snow and parking lot you're disappointed that your ontario window overlooks a frozen wasteland it's a frozen wasteland dominated by a huge and i would say evil big box chain store. Yes. If I am making out this logo correctly. I mean, it's true. You know, speaking of the true towers, it's basically turn your bedroom view into staring into the eye of Sauron. Yes, that is exactly the problem.

What's the view in the master bedroom? The master bedroom has a much better view. There's a park on the right hand side and then it has actually, we look out on a street so we can see the houses, but we can look straight down so it has a nice view basically from there in comparison. Also, Shelly, our dog, would love the, likes to look out the window and we couldn't do that in the bedroom that he wants to propose because the windows are higher. That's okay. Matt will just put goggles onto her that will simulate a beautiful view all the time. She would probably like that, especially if there's a dog there. I'm pretty sure Matt is just replacing the real-life dog with the dog from Microsoft Bob.

from Microsoft Bob. Yeah. Another reason why I don't really want it is I'm the one who actually mostly plays the VR games. Matt doesn't really. He gets motion sickness more easily than I do. I was going to ask about that because on the Jonathan Colton Cruise last year, the last time I went,

I met a guy whose job was working on VR and specifically the issue of keeping people from getting nauseated while playing it and disoriented and how to deal with that. So you are VR proof, but Matt, the reason he's curling up in a ball is because he feels sick to his tummy. Well, he gets sick more easily than I do, but I have gotten motion sickness from the system a couple times. Not as often. One time was my fault because I wasn't feeling well to begin with.

So don't put on VR if you are not feeling well. It'll make the whole thing worse. But yeah, sometimes the games themselves, like either the way that you control your avatar in the world sort of moves strangely and can make you feel odd. Like you're sort of like grating against like a brick wall and you're trying to go up a ramp. You're like, why is there this wall here? And sometimes it's just the way. Sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, sometimes it can be.

So they're still at the early stages of games. So there's not, you know, too many that are perfect yet, but we're getting there. So you are, you're obviously an aficionado. What do you do in your regular day-to-day life, Amber? Not as exciting as that. I wish it was all video games. I work at a university, and I basically am sort of an invoice handler or a sleuth, as I like to call it sometimes, and sort of a jack-of-all-trades with regards to the rest of my job description.

Whatever sort of lands on my table, I sort of take care of. Video games rule. Universities drool. Yeah. sort of take care of. Video games rule, universities drool. Yeah. So your beloved Matt wants to build a world for you to escape into from this, get away from the horrible monster big box store out back. And you're obviously the drudgery of your invoice handling. And you are spurning him saying you'd rather have a real master bedroom. If you had a 15 by 15 foot room in your house that was otherwise being unused, would you accept this gift from Matt? Yes, I actually don't mind the holodeck room in a

concept. I just don't want it to be my master bedroom. We technically do have a space. We have a basement, which we could convert into a place, which is definitely more than 50, or I think it's definitely 15. I don't know if it's 15 wide, but it's definitely long. And I think that that would be a better space. But Matt won't go down there because he's terrified of a specific bug that I cannot possibly name, even though it probably isn't down there at all anyway. Why?

Because it's the Walmart bug? No. You don't want to buzz market the terrible shop out back? No, it's more like the mere mention of the name of the insect causes him to curl in a ball. Oh. I'm hearing a lot about you curling in a ball, Matt. What's the problem with the basement?

Talk about, I want to hear about the bugs. Yeah, I want to hear about that bug too. I'm not going to take no for an answer either. All right. So the problem with the basement is, you know, you have your VR headset on, so you can't see what's around you. And so I'll be constantly in fear that, you know, it will come out from wherever it's hiding.

And, you know, I might touch it or something when I touch a wall, or it might just crawl up on me, and I'd have no idea because I would have the VR headset on. And that just terrifies me. You know, I've often wished that Stephen King listened to this podcast. And especially now, because this sounds like a Stephen King short story.

What kind of bug is it that you're afraid of? Yeah, it's a centipede. A centipede. Do you have a centipede problem in the basement or is there just one centipede that's always hanging around? I've actually never seen a centipede in the basement or in our house. This is the

virtual reality centipede that is apparently in our basement. What? Did you send me a picture of your basement? We did not. I was going to send a picture of the basement of a bunch of spiders, but currently we have two cats, and they ate all the spiders up that I was going to use as evidence.

Once again, cats are conspiring against you, Matt. Yep. Tell me more about the basement, Amber, because obviously this is a very attractive solution to a judge. Okay, so right now the basement isn't finished, so it would require some, obviously, construction. Like, there's no drywall, and there's no paint, and there's no paint and there's no carpet. It's just literally concrete floor. And then you have the insulation that you can see from there. And then you still also have the wooden beams on the ceiling, too. But if you put on a set of virtual reality goggles, all of a sudden you're in the world of the Gasoline Alley Gang. Vaseline Alley gang.

One of two comic strips, Jesse, there may be more, but two landmark comic strips in which the characters age. Oh. Can you think of the other one? Mary Worth? No. No. Rhymes with Orange? No.

I give up. I. Give you a hint. It's a comic strip from the nation that we are talking to right now. A Canadian comic strip. Is it socialized medicine? Do you guys know what it is? Not off my, no. Nope. What, how old are you guys again?

Are you like 31 or something? You, comic strips are not part of your life. No. For better or for worse. I guess worse in this condition? No, that's the name of the comic strip. Oh. How can you be Ontarians and not know for better or for worse?

By, I want to say, Lynn Johnston. I probably do know it, but I wouldn't remember it. Well, she retired after a while. And now it's just reruns. But it was a story about a family and they all grew up and then had children, just like in Gasoline Alley, where the main character in the strip in the 20s, when automobiles were a hobby fad, is now 120 or something. It's crazy. Sorry. This is what the podcast should be jesse just me talking about comic strips i know it's what you would like to podcast to be right now yeah so let me ask you you guys first of all i love your life

because you you have a you have a three-bedroom house a a dog, two cats, a sweet VR rig, not a great view out your back window, but jobs that support and nourish you and some terrific hobbies and a lot of affection for each other. No kids. Nope. You're living the dream. You have big grown-up kids.

Yep. So do you own this house or do you rent it? I currently own part of it. All right. My mom owns the other part. Okay. Right, okay. So you're in partnership with your mom? Yep.

And we're planning on buying her out soon. Okay. And do you have the funds, Amber, to do the basement renovations that you're talking about? We'd have to probably save up for it because we still, we just bought the tower, which was a bit for Christmas. Yeah, but you really, but the tower, the tower computer, like you really jumped the gun, didn't you there, Matt? Because, you know, you bought the machine before you got the black room with the yellow lines. Yes, mainly because I can use the computer for other stuff,

and I can play, there's a bunch of games, and the computer I was using was starting to die. So we decided to go ahead and buy one of the machines now. So how far away are you, if I were to rule in your favor, how far away are you, would you say, from saving up to get another machine? Another machine? Next month, I would say.

Next month, all right. And Amber, how far away are you, would you say, from being able to do some basic renovations on the basement to make it at least a potential VR parlor? I'm not sure exactly what the cost would be, but if we can afford the computer, we could probably start doing the renovations downstairs.

Mm-hmm. And you don't have any outbuildings, right? You don't have any other secret Canadian extra space? No. No, just the basement. Right. Well, we've got that VR parlor in the backyard. Well, we haven't used that for ages.

We have that geodesic dome. Sorry, should have mentioned it. Is there any self-storage place that has 15 by 15 cubes that you can rent? Not that I know of. We don't have a car, so it's hard for us to get. Wait a minute. What? Yeah. This is what your priorities are how do you get to

work we take the bus you're buying vr computers and you can't even get a subaru in your life yeah maybe you should put a virtual reality studio on one of those buses. All right. I know what you want, if I were to find in your favor, Matt. Yeah. And Amber, if I find in your favor, would you allow Matt to put a VR parlor into one of the back bedrooms? Or do you agree with him that it's just not? Oh, no, we're talking about the basement. Right. Okay. but while you're saving up could you put a vr parlor into one of the back bedrooms amber is that a possibility yeah that would be fine it just doesn't offer the dream of escaping reality the dream of playing a game that he has yet to even pick okay i think i've heard everything unless there's any last word you'd like to say Matt

there is Amber mentioned our dog and how she likes to look out the window so that's another reason I want to use the master bedroom so when we are in our VR world not paying attention to her she has a nice place to look out the window yeah she likes to look out the window in that room

so your plan is to just have your dog in there, running around, fleeing from you while you're wearing these VR goggles? Yeah. It seems like a great place for her to look out the window and be terrified by people. Don't get any soccer games. That's my top recommendation. Why are those robot helmets attacking my people? All right.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to climb up into my sensory deprivation tank and ponder this over while disembodiedly roaming the galaxy. Be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Amber, how do you feel about your chances here? Oh, I'm worried. I really want to not have the master bedroom become the VR room. It'll be really claustrophobic if I have to go in the small room. Can I offer you a quick suggestion? What? What if you let loose some centipedes in the master bedroom? I've been thinking potentially I might do that if I absolutely have to sabotage the room.

Matt, how are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty worried. I'm hoping the judge sees that the more optimal and really getting all the bang for our buck for VR is the best way to go and having my dream of the cool holodeck persuades them. Matt, did they have the word cockamamie in Canada, or is there a different word that describes your scheme?

We do not have that word. Well, Canadians, you can write in. We'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's ruling. Canadians, you can write in. We'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's ruling. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen?

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They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Okay, I just want to let you guys know that I'm doing this all in my VR thing. So if I accidentally hit the mic or whatever. Oh, just.

All right. I'm going to do this IRL if you mic or whatever. Oh, just... Ah! Ah! All right. I'm going to do this IRL, if you don't mind. Although I was enjoying my new judge's bench at the top of the Mayan pyramid of Qbert. But now I'm here back in my office talking to you like a real human being. Real talk for real meat space, you guys. I love what's going on in your house in Ontario. And I totally, totally want you guys to have the VR

parlor of Matt's dreams. And here's why. One, it's a gift. If this were just some monstrous boyfriend who's like, I just want to FPS it all day long, and this is the room that I want, so get out, honey, which is what I thought this was going to be, I wouldn't even talk to you guys. I would have just done it on the docket. But I love that Matt just wants to rig it up. That's what he's interested in doing. And that, Amber, you want to play. You're even okay with the idea of turning a room into not only a VR parlor, but a room that once it is decorated with black paint and yellow lines,

cannot be used for anything else. It would mark you guys as weirdos for a long time. You could have a VR parlor that is a multi-purpose room. Do you know what I mean? Just lay down some, uh, whatever, wall to wall, and then you can have some, I don't know what else, but you're committed and I dig it. But no way, Matt, no way are you going to take your master bedroom, the best room in your house, the most important room for you to be together in this world that we all share until the singularity happens. And then we're all going to be off on thumb drives into the galaxy.

That's going to happen sooner than you think. We're going to conquer mortality and just be blips and bleeps out in the neuro space, trying to write a science fiction novel, you guys. trying to write a science fiction novel you guys but and in those last moments where we are still homo sapiens and not uh homo robotoids you got to be with each other it's cold in canada in the winter time i saw that view out the back of your window in that back bedroom. And the night is dark and full of terrors. And also that Walmart. You don't want to look at that. You don't want to look at that when you're spending your most intimate moments together. Your dog doesn't want to look at that. When people live in cold, dark places up north,

in the wintertime, your home is your refuge. It is, in many ways, the virtual reality we all used before there was virtual reality to create an alternate reality that was not dark, cold, and grim. I'm sure you've got wonderful stuff in your neighborhood. I mean, you're getting out there in it all the time, taking the bus everywhere and everything else. I'm not ditching on your particular area of Ontario, but I saw what was outside the back of your window. Oof. That view is no good.

So therefore, no. You can't give over that space of refuge and real-life intimacy to your fantasy, even though it fits the size of more or less of what a holodeck should be. And the other reason I couldn't rule in your favor, Matt, was once I learned that you're scared to go down to that basement because of a centipede that may or may not exist. I'm like, no, dude, you have to get over some IRL fears before I can let you go disappear into the fantasy world. You got to get over that centipede issue. The solution is obvious. That basement's the perfect place. And for these reasons, one, it's bigger. Two, it doesn't have your marital

bed in it. Three, it's not going to rob your dog of its virtual reality looking out that window. Four, in order to use it, you have to renovate down there. And while that is expensive, down there. And while that is expensive, turning your basement from a centipede-riddled hellhole into a nice finished basement, even if you paint it black with yellow lines, you're increasing the value of this home that you and your mom currently own. And then once it's all cleaned up, I bet you're not going to be so scared of the centipedes. That reality is going to transform down there before you ever put on your VR headset. Does it mean you have to wait? Yes. You have to wait because A, you do have to get that second tower. That's an expense. And B, you do have to renovate it.

That's an expense. And C, the technology is only going to continue to improve. And that's an expense. And the longer you wait and fashion your dreams down there, the better your VR experience is going to be down the road. Is it delayed satisfaction? Yes, it is. I'm sorry, you're just going to have to play the VR set you already have in the living room. But it will be more satisfaction when you fix up your basement, get over your fear of centipedes,

and continue to have a happy life in a master bedroom that doesn't have lines all over it and connects to a bathroom. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that's all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Amber, how do you feel about your new basement? I'm really excited. What game are you going to play when you have this virtual reality fantasy land? There's a really cool one that I want to play that's underwater,

and you get to experience fish and whales and all sorts of aquatic marine life. Can you bring Lieutenant Worf? He can definitely come. Matt, how are you feeling? A bit scared, but, I mean, he's probably right. And the basement is bigger, so it would fit better. Although we will have to wait a while so we can renovate it. Maybe you can use the intervening time to decide on a game or two you'd like to play. I do have a couple games

on my wish list. I just don't remember what they are. I know there's a new Star Trek game coming out. That'll be pretty exciting. Matt, Amber, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try

S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go. Jesse. Yeah. Did I tell you about my experience marching in the Women's March in New York City with my son? No. Well, my wife and our daughter Hajmina went to DC and had an incredibly overwhelming and empowering experience marching the Women's March there. And my son and I stayed behind and met up with our friend David Reese. And we all went marching up here. And it was also overwhelming and empowering and reassuring to feel the crush of so many people who were feeling a lot of the same anxieties

about this unprecedented new political world we're in. And I think that even if you're a listener out there who voted for Donald Trump, you had to have known you were voting for something very, very, very different. And it is, right? I mean, you know, that's true, right? So we're all neighbors and friends and all, but I'm just saying, it was reassuring to feel people who are feeling the same thing we were and to feel the crush of human bodies. But the greatest moment in my Women's March experience was, as we walked by, and I have to say the name is it was the Microsoft store on Fifth Avenue. A number of employees were inside, a number of shoppers were inside, and they were all waving and smiling to all of us. And we were waving and smiling back.

And then just off to the corner in the second floor of the Microsoft store was a dude with a VR helmet on just shooting imaginary bats or whatever. It was so weird and beautiful to see this guy totally in his own, of course it was a guy, totally in his own world. While this historic thing unfurled around him. And I get it. We all need to escape from time to time. People march in their own ways. For all I know, he was on a VR woman's march in there. But I don't think he was, because he was waving his arms around as if he was flailing with a sword. Anyway, that's my VR story, Jesse. I, a few years ago, was invited to South by Southwest Interactive to host a series of journalistic sponsored short videos for a popular media website. They were not, we didn't do any journalism about the sponsor, but they were sponsored content. By the way, invite me to do those videos.

It was so much fun and paid very well. But anyway, I went to South by Southwest Interactive, had a great time. I raced on a giant Super Mario Kart course against Griffin McElroy from My Brother, My Brother and Me. Needless to say, he destroyed me. Yeah. Yeah. Just completely crushed me like an ant under his heel. Of course. But one of the things i did was try out the i'll just the oculus rift and it was the first version which i understand is a little weirder and did make me feel sick mostly that was the primary thing but i played paper boy you know the game paper boy uh where you're the classic arcade game i played a virtual reality version of that and when i saw the playback of the edit

of the piece, I realized that basically paper boy in virtual reality in which you ride on a stationary bicycle and throw newspapers is essentially asking every player unknowingly to just do a series of fascist salutes. It was so horrible. The favorite game of the alt-right. What, I'm just playing Paperboy? If I ever ran for office, all you need is some ominous music and a desaturation filter on that footage, and it's a 30-second commercial. It's the new Lenny Riefenstahl movie. Anyway, thanks to Craig Eliason for naming this

week's episode Oculus Miffed. If you want to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. You should also follow us on Twitter at Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne. We regularly put out the call for submissions in both those places. This week's episode engineered by Ian Graham from Small Dog Studio in Kitchener, Ontario. So thank you to Ian. Thanks, Ian. Very kind guy. Our producer, of course, the great Jennifer Marmer, recording here in Los Angeles. Thanks, Jennifer. And on the edit and everything else. If you want to submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Now, John, I should only do that if I'm 100% certain that the case is suitable and I'm ready, right? No, you're absolutely wrong, Jesse. As usual. You should submit whether you think the case is suitable, whether you know it is

unsuitable, just aren't sure, or just want to say hi, by going to that website, MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho, and filling out that form, you are creating an email that goes directly to me. Or you can send an email directly to me, Hodgman at MaximumFun.org, with your pedantic critiques of my grammar or whatever it is you want to say. I actually really love hearing from everybody. I read every letter that comes through. I respond to as many as I can as quickly as I can. And of course, I and Jen and Jesse evaluate the cases, which ones are best for the podcast or for the docket or for the New York Times Magazine column net that I do in the Sunday Times. And so if you don't hear back from me for a while, that may simply be because we're

seriously considering your case. So please write on in. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets and Facebook posts with hashtag JJHO. And if you want to get into what's often a quite in-depth and thoughtful discussion of every week's case, go to MaximumFun.Reddit.com to join our subreddit. MaximumFun.reddit.com to join our subreddit. If you have any thoughts about my facility with Star Trek references, please send those to MaximumFunHQ. Care of Benjamin Harrison and Adam Pranica, The Greatest Generation. They'll go ahead and read those and take them to heart.

Oh, can I just say something about those two awesome dudes? Yeah, sure. And their very popular podcast about Star Trek. This is an aside. They just sent me a book as part of the thing. What is that thing again? That's MaximumFun.org's inner circle, where if you donate on a monthly basis a certain amount. Each month, a Max Fund talent or employee selects a special book or

film or music album just called albums to send to you. Yeah, and so those guys sent me a book called Ancillary Justice by, it's a science fiction book by a woman named Anne Leckie with a really nice letter

describing what an interesting and enjoyable book it is. And you know what I did with that book, Jesse? Threw it right in the trash. I did because I already read it and I never knew that Ben and Pranika already loved that book. I was so excited to see that book again. It's like, oh, those guys are cool. They know what's a good book. I actually gave the book to a friend of mine to read. But I'm just going to say those guys are cool. And Leckie, you're cool. I follow you on Twitter. Ancillary Justice. It's an amazing book. And I'm glad to be part of such a wonderful family of friends and fellow podcasters. That's all. of such a wonderful family of friends and fellow podcasters.

That's all. Well, that's it for another Judge John Hodgman podcast. In the books! Book them, Dan-o, as my famous catchphrase goes. And as always, I have no catchphrase to end this podcast after many years of doing it. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Goodbye. Goodbye.

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