Judge John Hodgman - Pace Dismissed

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

KLAXON! KLAXON! It’s the MaxFunDrive!  The best time of year for you to become a Maximum Fun member! Memberships start at just $5 a month, which gives you access to our entire library of bonus content. And for just $10 a month, you can get JJHo AD FREE! Join NOW at maximumfun.org/join! Whether you are a brand new member, current member upgrading, or longtime member at whichever level where you feel comfortable, THANK YOU FOR CONTINUING TO KEEP JJHO GOING! Lex brings the case against his wife, Lauren. Lauren is serious about getting her steps in - even during the frigid East Coast winter. When it’s too cold to walk outside, Lauren gets her steps inside the house. Even though there's a treadmill in their finished basement! The problem is, she’s driving Lex - AND their kids - nuts! Who’s right, and who’s wrong? It's your last chance to get all of your HEATED RIVALRIES and disputes for Rachel Reid (GAME CHANGERS, HEATED RIVALRY)! Are romance novels as valid an art form as other fiction? What is the best romantasy series? What is the WORST romantasy series? Which romantic trope is too played out? Submit all of your romance adjacent cases to maximumfun.org/jjho or email [e-mail]. Thanks to reddit user u/Melvillean for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes and more. Memberships start at just $5 a month. Just tap here!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am Bayliff, Jesse Thorne. Wow. We are almost done with the Max Fund drive. It is the very last week. There are a few more days until the end. Hey, we mean it when we say that we absolutely cannot make this show without your support. Membership start at $5 a month. In fact, if you are not yet a member of maximum fund, you want to join at $5 a month. The link. is in the show description, but also you can just go straight to maximum fund.org slash join JJHO. Maximumfund.org slash join JJHO. You will have a carefully greased runway straight into MaxFund membership. All right. Let's get into the program this week. Pace dismissed.

Lex brings the case against his wife, Lauren. Lex and Lauren love to stay active. They both prioritize getting in as many steps as possible every single day. but they live on the East Coast. When it's too cold to walk outside, Lauren walks a loop inside the house through the kitchen and the dining room. She's able to get her steps in, stay warm, and even complete her language learning app lessons.

Problem solved. But Lex says she's created a new problem. Her loops through the house are torturing the entire household. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure. cultural reference. Thon was able to travel through time easily while Wally and I always needed help. We used something I swore I'd never set foot on again. I should have destroyed it, but I saved it for a

rainy day. And there's a storm coming. Bail of Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Lex, Lauren, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes. Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he gets no step. in because he goes everywhere on a Segway, like a local news anchor from 2002 or whenever segways were new. And all local news people wrote around on Segways and talked about segways all the time. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Thank you, Lex and Lorne, you may be seen. Or you might say like a somewhat younger Judge John Hodgman from 2009 or 10 visiting Los Angeles for the Emmys with the Daily Show, when everyone in the cast, rented a segue to ride down the beach in Santa Monica. That's awesome. And now I believe they're just piled up under the pier as a jetty. I don't know. All right, Lex and Lauren, you're already seated.

I prefer that you sit down to. Please be comfortable. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? I'm ready to write down your guesses. Why don't we start with you, Lex? I genuinely have no idea. and if you didn't hate puns, I would say it's going to be a thorn in my side that I don't have any idea.

I'm going to go with my prepared guess, which is The Long Walk by Stephen King, as Richard Bachman. I just had to write down, not your guess, but I had to note that you used wordplay. I'm not sure if you can see what I've written here beside wordplay. It's not a letter exactly. It's what I call a black mark against you. I see it. It's fair. Oh, well, if he got a black mark.

The long walk. It's not going to go well for me. By Stephen King. Writing as Richard Bachman. Yes. All right. I'll write that book, that guest down. I actually did for some reason.

I didn't just make a squiggle. I wrote, well, I got as far as the long walk by Stuh. Now, Lauren, what do you guess? I, too, have absolutely no idea. All right, I'm going to give you both a hint. Oh, I like hints. This is going to help. And I'm going to give you another guess,

because I can tell you don't know what this one. is. This is from a comic book called The Flash, specifically volume 5 number 21 cover date of June 2017. Excellent. Now I know. Yeah, well, no, but if you can guess what the character is talking about, Wally and I always needed help to travel through time. We used something I swore I'd never set foot on again. Can you guess what that is? It's not a copy of the Long Walk by Steve. Even King writing is Richard Bachman. Clearly, he is talking about a time-traveling segue. Time-traveling segue.

All segways travel you through time to 2005. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to write down T.T. Seg. That's how I'll remember your guess. Time-traveling segue. What's your guess? My new guess is a treadmill. So close, because I basically spoon-fed it to you, Lex.

I appreciate that. You know, someone who's named after a DC comics villain should probably know what I'm talking about here. Jesse, you know what I'm talking about. Introduced in Flash Volume 1, 125 in the year, 1961, I'm talking about the cosmic treadmill. Comic books are funny. Thing is, Flash doesn't just run fast. He also vibrates, and he can vibrate himself into a different dimension and into different. timelines, but when he's just doing it on foot, you never, you never knows where he's going to land.

So he built a cosmic treadmill to run on to match the vibration. I don't know what it was. With comic books, it's like they differ in amount that they're writing silly nonsense for eight-year-olds. But the people who are writing not silly nonsense for eight-year-olds, like self-serious violence for 13-year-olds or thoughtful space stuff for 16-year-olds or whatever. The various, they still have to deal with the silly nonsense for eight-year-olds that a different person wrote 30 years ago. That, to me, is the secret of the charm of my very favorite DC characters, the Legion of the Superheroes, because they're so goofy and so self-serious.

Despite my name, comic books are my kryptonite. Lex says here, in a previous docket case, you had petitioned the court for us to order, you want to me to order your son to live in the sewer? I don't remember it exactly. Can you refresh my memory? Honestly, you have positively affected my family's life forever. And I mean that very sincerely. They met a very smart, very kind rat.

When we were planning a trip to Paris, Lauren encouraged each kid to research what they most wanted to see in France. and our son Liam, who was then, what, 13, came up with the Paris Sewer Museum. And I wrote to you begging you to say that we did not have to go to the Paris Sewer Museum. And you said, no, we must go to the Paris Sewer Museum, which we did. And, well, two of us loved it. Liam and I loved it. The other three members of my family did not love it.

But Lauren, at least I think you loved Liam's reaction to it. I did love Liam's reaction. I will always hold a fond memory of the security guard there who laughed at me while I was dry heaving from the smell. It was really the smell, sound, and visual combination was a little more than I could take. You were literally in the sewer. Yes, literally in the sewer. What did it smell like? Stinky Framage. Mered, I think is the term of art. Oh, okay. I don't think that'll get us flagged by the podcast channels. Yeah, the Paris Sewer Museum. You went and your son enjoyed it and lives there now to the stay. He still hasn't gotten a T-shirt from there. The T-shirt shop is seemingly always closed.

When we have friends visit Paris, we ask them to check, and they're never selling the merch. So we only have the memories and photos, not the merch. I see. Well, perhaps you can share with him some of the wonderful merch that you'll receive once you become a member of Maximum Fun. At maximum fund.org slash join JHA. Oh, in the meantime, what is the case that brings you to us here today? Well, my lovely wife, Lauren, who of course is a whole human being in her own right, loves getting steps, as do I. And when it's cold, despite the fact that there is a treadmill on the baseball,

Lauren likes to walk loops through our kitchen and dining room over and over again, often while doing her language lessons in her app of choice. And it is incredibly annoying to the children, a husband, that's me and pets in the house. What's your pet profile? What's the portfolio? There is one very dumb dog named Cody. Yeah. And two cats, Allie and Sonny, one of whom likes us. Sunny likes us. Allie doesn't like anything. Well, to be fair, Sunny likes me. That's true also. Now, as of this moment, you have not preemptorly sent in photos of your pets, which shows admirable restraint for someone who opened this conversation with wordplay. But we'll get some pictures to us, and they will have already been put up on her YouTube channel here in Judge John Hodgman Pod, and you can check them out on the socials. I'm sure they're very cute.

Cute pets, right? So cute. Yes. All right, good. The dog. So cute. So dumb. So cute.

Cody, the dumb dog. Lauren, Lex has made his accusation. Tell me about your loop. So we have an open floor plan house so I can walk from the front. Yes, very contemporary. I can walk from the front door around to the kitchen through the dining room and back around to the front door. And I can do this. I think we counted.

It was about 55 steps or so. It was somewhere between 55 and 80. I don't remember anymore. But I tend to walk between two and a half and three miles at any given stretch. So that's a lot of loops. That's a lot of loops, 80 steps. Yeah, looking at 5,000 steps. How many steps are you trying to get a day?

10,000, but you know, I get several just from normal movement. So this is really just... Your loop goal would be about 5,000. Usually around that, yeah. It depends, unless I've had a very lazy morning, in which case, maybe a little more. So, what is that? 5,000 divided by 80, Jesse? You know I can't do math at all.

It looks like about 63 loops you got to do. I would say it feels like 10 times that amount, but I would believe 63. Yeah, I was asking Lauren Lex. Yeah. I would say that that's fair. I don't usually count the loops. As Lex said, I like to either use an app on my phone or something to keep myself entertained while I'm walking in mindless circles. Lex and Lauren believe in the mathematics of the heart, John.

And when did you first discover the loop in your house? Did you try out any others? I wouldn't say that there's really any other good enough path. Like if I were to walk, say, in circles and just our living room, it's only something like 21 steps. It's much shorter. But do you remember the day you're like, oh, I'm not going to go outside? And I know that you have a treadmill in the basement that we're going to talk about in the minute. So the problem is that it was cold outside and it is also very cold in the basement.

And I think I just got to a point, especially this past winter where it was just so cold all the time that I'm like, I just can't be cold. anymore. How long has this been going on? It started this year. This, this calendar year? This calendar year? This calendar winter, yes. Okay. So a few months. So I think I am a teacher, so I think of everything in terms of school year. So when I say this year, I mean, clearly September through June. I think only in terms of fiscal year because I'm a financial wizard. Makes sense. Yeah. So it was, it was a new development. Sometime within, say, the past four to six months. Yes.

You picked it up. You don't remember the day you didn't write it down in your journal necessarily. I did not know. All right. And when did Lex let you know that this was annoying him? Just this morning? No, I would say it went on for a while before he started to voice concerns. I think for a while I was able to do it when other people were busy.

But it was when I started needing to do it more in afternoons or on the weekends when people also wanted to use our kitchen or exist outside of, say, offices and bedrooms that it started to get more annoying to everybody else. I also originally was, we don't usually wear shoes in the house, so I was doing it barefoot, which I think was a little quieter, but that started to hurt my feet. Right. To walk around. So then you put on wooden clogs. Obviously. No, so I, but I have a pair of sneakers that I only used indoors. So I started wearing those, but that most definitely made the whole thing louder. Lex, you sent in a video of the loop in action, or I should say, Lauren in action on the loop. Let's take a look at that. Do we have that locked and loaded? Yes, I see it ready to go.

So for the folks who are listening at home and not watching, what we're seeing here is like a weird prank video, basically. Something is going to happen with this foreground water bottle that we can see. Yeah. Did you get Lauren's permission to film? This was a creeper video because, you know, when the scientist observes the thing, you can change the thing. I wanted it to be the untainted loop. Not a performative one. I'm going to say, today I learned that video exists. Wow.

Lex, you at the very least posted one of those big signs that they have outside of like a ballgame that says if you're in public, you're being you're being recorded for broadcast, later broadcast on HBO or whatever. Exactly. All right. If you couldn't see it, it's on our YouTube, obviously, and on our social medias. But certainly if you're only listening at home, you could hear it. And one thing I noticed is, sneakers or no, you have no carpets on the loop. It's a little bit loud. Frankly, I find it to be a little bit soothing Lex.

It's like something I might listen to trying to fall asleep. It is, I would say, the first couple loops could have an ASMR quality. Then the next 60 do not. As Lauren mentioned, it's going through the kitchen. That video is at the kitchen table. And Lauren has, I will say, acknowledge two things. One, that she acknowledges that it is annoying. She finds even her own sound of walking annoying.

And then two, that she recognizes the rest of our annoyance when we want to use the kitchen and she's annoyed at us for using the kitchen while she is attempting to loop through it. So if I'm like preparing lunch and going back and forth to the pantry or the fridge, she's annoyed at my temporary blocking of her path as she does the loop while I get. at the garlic salt. Lauren, do you get annoyed? Is that a reasonable accusation? No, it's not a reasonable accusation

because I'm not annoyed at the use of the kitchen. I'm annoyed at the opening the pantry door and leaving it open, which blocks the walkway into the next room. Yeah, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, whack! Her face goes right into that thing. She goes down in a heap.

There's no way to avoid it, John. Just close the pantry door. Lex, are you sabotaging the loop with the pantry door? It's literally if you're going to go get a seasoning, grab it and then put it back, you could close that door, but you're only doing it because of the crazy loop. We all know you have garlic salt.

You already bragged about that one. It's true. It's true. By the way, can I just say, good for you. Garlic salt is something that used to be in my family's rotation all the time. I don't think I have a bottle of garlic salt, and it's terrific. I'm going to get some.

It's very new to us, very new to our family. I bought some seasoned salt recently. I just like putting it on things. This is the most basic seasoning on earth. Taste good. Taste good. Taste really good. It sounds like the only practical solution to this problem is to put a cowcatcher on

Lauren's head like the front of a train engine. Or, or, Jesse, you know how fond I am of this method of moving from room to room. Why not replace your pantry door with a bead curtain? Oh, yeah. And why not replace your garlic salt with VHS. pornography. Now that's salty. Hey, Judge John Hodgman fans, we only have a few days left in the Max Fund Drive. As you probably know, every single maximum fun show is directly supported by members. People who listen to the show think it's worth supporting, think it should continue. Judge John

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And you'll be glad, too, I think. It's maximum fund.org slash join. Don't put it off because the drive's about to end. Maximumfund.org slash join. All right. So look, you're in a shared use space, but what time of day is this happen? This sounds like a weekend issue, right?

If everyone's home and you're home, because you're a teacher, I presume you don't, you teach in a classroom somewhere. All right. And Lex, I don't know what your schedule is. You're busy making... I work from home.

Stouffer's French bread pizzas all the time and amping them up with that garlic salt like I used to do as a child. You work from home. Okay. You have an office somewhere in the home? I do. It's part of the loop goes by the office, the office door.

So your office is on the first floor. So you hear, okay, got it. So when are you doing this after school or early mornings or when, Lauren? I mean, weekends, obviously. I wish I could say there was a regular schedule. Sometimes it's just dependent on the day. There are times, well, I come home early in the afternoon. So I'll come home and walk right away.

But there are days where I have things to do after work. So it might not be till later in the evening. It's never during dinner because we're eating dinner, but it could most certainly be after dinner, where at least most of the time, the kids have dispersed upstairs. So I'm mostly just annoying, Lex. Well, that raises a point because, Lex, you assert that Lauren's loops,

it says you're bothered the entire household. How does the entire household get bored? I did not, I did not ask our daughter, Sierra, to provide a written affidavit because she is both of our daughter. I don't want her to write in writing against her mom, but she has said to me very explicitly. Yes, it's incredibly annoying. She too has had the kitchen interference called on her by Lauren when Sierra's trying to get food or whatever. Because even just opening the fridge, the fridge blocks the path.

We're not leaving the fridge open. The fridge beeps very aggressively if you leave it open. We would never leave that fridge open. But just the motion of opening it up to get something out of the fridge, you will incur Lauren's annoyance. It might not be more than a heavy sigh, but that heavy sigh speaks volumes. Well, here's a solution. Why don't you just send your daughter to go live in the sewers for Sib? Boy, she was so mad at you for that ruling.

Where did she want to go? And where did she go? I don't know. Actually, she just wanted to go to Paris. That was her bat, misfor-gift, was going there. She wanted to go to the museums, and she wanted to eat pastries and chocolate. She did all those things. And she did.

She got to do all those things. Yes. This is a podcast that is sometimes a support. by Babel. So I don't want to mention the language learning app that you're using. But you are using a language learning app. What language are you learning? Presently, I am learning Spanish. I was trying to think if I was walking when I was still doing Italian, but I think I was not. So Spanish. They're both wonderful walking languages, though, I guess. They are. So you're learning Spanish. And so when you're doing the app, I mean, Lex, when Lauren is doing the app, is she also speaking out

common phrases in Spanish? I wouldn't even know if they were common because I do not speak Spanish. My language learning is in French and in private. But Lauren does those language learning lessons aloud. Even if Lauren's wearing, you know, branded headphones, she still has to speak aloud for the lessons that are met. Because Lauren is, I'm content to do one lesson at a time and simply have extended my streak because I care more about my streak than my mastery of French.

Lauren will do the minimum requirement. Like, it's six or seven lessons a day or something like that, which always requires you talk aloud. I love gamified learning. I'm my personality is super geared towards that. I'm like, yes, give me all the points and the rewards and the thumbs up. Yay. But for this one, there's usually like three goals a day that they want you to hit. So I try to do those.

But also, I legitimately want to be learning Spanish. So I will do it for longer than the minimum because I'm actually trying to learn. Un momento, pour favor. It seems to me that Lex just said, and sometimes Lauren even uses headphones. Does that mean that sometimes you're not using headphones? It's a podcast. I think you might want to speak and not simply not. I thought you were going to talk.

Yes, yes. Sometimes I do not use the headphones. If the kids are home, I'll use the headphones. But if they're not, and Lex is in his office with the door closed, I don't always just the headphones. Daniel Spear, our video editor, I'm just going to make a request that when you do this edit, make sure that you give me a slow motion replay of Lauren's silent nod of shame to that answer. Why would you not use headphones? Are you concerned about safety? You might not hear a child as you trample over it? I think that it was generally mostly laziness that happened to go find my headphones

from wherever I last left them because I lose things a lot. Lauren, I, you mentioned you have a treadmill in the basement and it's cold down there. We're going to talk about this in a second, but I can understand why this might be preferable to be up in a warm household surrounded by the people you love rather than walking in place in a hole in the ground. But it says here you live in the East Coast. You told me that you live in New Jersey. This is civilized country.

There's got to be a YMCA nearby where you could go and walk in a loop, right? I suppose that's true, yes. What, I mean, what about at your school? Is there not an auditorium? Well, so I do while I'm at school. And while we have the kids at gym or recess, I do walk in lots and lots of circles. I was hoping that you were going to say during class, you just walk the periphery of the classroom 63 times as you're teaching. That would be hard. I do work in a preschool. There's a lot of toys and children on the floor at most time. So in that case, headphones would be dangerous. I would be in danger of trampling a child and probably also getting fired. So let's talk about the treadmill in your basement. It's cold. It's dark in there. For what reason have you, like Barry Allen in the Flash, sworn to never set foot on that

treadmill again? Did you accidentally go back in time and cause a paradox at one point? It was just one. I had been using the treadmill as recently as this calendar school year. And it was just one day where I was just like, I just can't go down there. It's too cold. And I didn't want to put the heat on and wait for the heat to warm back up for the 45 minutes I was going to be down there.

And I'm like, I'm just going to walk up here today. And so I did. And I don't think I realized it at first, but I realized over time, I hate walking in one place. I like moving. And so normally in the warmer weather, I walk outside. You know, but when it gets too cold, I really don't like to be cold. So when I say that I'm cold, like if it's under 65 degrees, I'm cold in the fall. In the, but it was just this one day that I started walking inside in.

And I think I realized I gain a lot for myself in terms of like sensory stuff and body of moving versus being in one place. Yeah, I mean, Lex, you could understand that walking and exercise in general is not merely about improving physical fitness, but also it has a therapeutic emotional component to it. And the moving, the moving through space is somewhat different than walking on a treadmill in the bottom of a pit in a basement. with, you know, in the Silence of the Lamb style. You're not wrong. I'm on that basement treadmill, I think every day or very close to every day. And I do not find it's part. Even when it is cold, five minutes after I've started walking on the treadmill, I'm not cold anymore because I'm moving.

And there is heat down there that can be turned on, like Lauren said. But even I will freely admit that as recently as this morning when I came home from the gym, I said to Lauren, I've been debating if I want to go walk outside because it is warmer now or if I want to go to the treadmill. I chose the treadmill, even though far, I totally agree. It is more interesting to walk and get someplace than walk on a treadmill. Right. But I could get more steps in faster, more efficiently, if I used the treadmill. I would note, though, that even if Lauren is doing that loop, she's not really walking anywhere.

It's a bigger loop than the treadmill, but only barely. Right. But I would also note you acknowledged at the beginning of our recording that your wife, Lauren, is a whole human being in our own right. That is, say, a separate person who may have different preferences than you. Yes. Right. I absolutely agree.

And what about damage to your floors upstairs? Aren't you going to wear down a track? I hope not. I'm not that big of a person. Yeah, but water isn't that hard a thing, and yet it carves great mountains into dust. I want nothing more than to replace those floors because they're terrible. Is that what this is about?

It's the long game. This is a floor war? Oh, wow. There's got to be a reality show called Floor Wars. This could be the pilot. I am floored by this revelation. You may notice another black mark next to wordplay for you. I've used a few treadmills in my time and my question in a bunch of different hotels.

And my question to you is, when you are walking on the treadmill, are you facing a dead blank wall or a giant screen that will only show CNBC for some reason? This is actually, I think, a pretty good answer. So it's, I will, feel free to bleep it out. I will name, I will name the brand of the treadmill. It's a Peloton treadmill. So it has its own big screen. Yeah, that's fine. And you can even, it even has like Netflix built into it.

So if you want to watch there, you can. And there is also a TV that Lauren, in fact, has expertly angled to face the treadmill. So you can watch the TV from that treadmill. Although we did have to, we had some damage to our floor a couple years ago because of a basement. Because it's a basement. but we had a pipe burst. Because of your general anti-floor position in the house?

Things just keep happening to our floors. Another front joins the floor war. When we had to put the treadmill back, it's very heavy and hard to move. So when the construction crew put it back, they didn't put it back at quite the right angle. So now if you want to use the TV that's there, and the TV is on the swivel arms so you can adjust it, but you still have to watch it with your head angled at a way

that is not comfortable. But you're talking about a separate TV, not the Peloton screen. If the TV screen were positioned to your comfort level, Lauren, you're not averse to watching TV while treadmilling. No, that's actually my preference because it moves the time. And while I would actually like to read on the treadmill, the walking is hard for me. So would watching TV on the treadmill be your preference to walking around the house practicing Spanish? No, because I was also using the app. on the treadmill prior to my refusal,

it'll use the treadmill anymore. So I just like something to pass the time either way. Could you watch Spanish language content on the TV on the treadmill? I mean, could you be watching Contin Floss movies or Clube de Quervos on Netflix or something? Yeah, I mean, without subtitles, that's essentially an immersion course.

I don't think my, despite the fact that the app would really like to share me to share this to LinkedIn, I don't think my score is high enough yet for me to be able to watch some Spanish language TV shows and have any idea what's happening, unless they're just talking about a Cumblyanos. So, or La Fiesta. It does sound like there's some accommodations that could be made to make the treadmill more

comfortable for you. In fact, they may have already been made, but, you know, in terms of making sure that it's preheated, that's something that Lex could step in and do and take a more proactive approach to making sure it's of a comfortable temperature down there for you at any particular time. He's apparently moved the treadmill. And yet for all of this, you would still prefer to walk around upstairs. Is that right, Lauren? I really think I would. Now, like I said, it's been months since I've used the treadmill.

So I would have to go down and see. It wouldn't be fair right now because it's not so cold anymore. But I, as I said before, now you're about to go outside. Right. But even if I wasn't, I did, I was surprised to realize that I do enjoy some kind of forward motion in addition to the walking. I think that that has value for me and just my physical being and wellness.

I understand. Lex, if I were to rule in your favor, you would like me to rule that Lauren go in your basement. Not permanently. But yes. I may have to spread that. But yes, I would, honestly, I would prefer that Lauren walk on the basement treadmill

or in a room of the house where her lap would be narrower, like the playroom, which we don't need anymore. The playroom? Yes. You want Lauren just walking on Legos all day? It's, it's fair. There's a fairly open space.

It's got to be at least a 25-step loop in there. It is smaller than the family room in every way. There's absolutely no way. Plus there's two keyboards. There's a table with computers and printers. There's. So I, okay. So I've changed my answer.

Yes. I agree with you. If you were to rule in my favor, I would like Lauren. to walk in the basement or to do her her living room dining room kitchen trek when no one else is around. Is there ever a time when there's no one else around? Yes. Okay.

When? 2 a.m.? Well, Lauren and I both do a decent amount of community theater. So, you know, if both kids are upstairs in their rooms and I'm in rehearsals, Lauren and I do an indecent amount of community theater. It's positively sinful. The performances are salacious. What was your most recent play that you were both in?

That we were both in was a man of no importance. Book by Terrence and Nally, music by Stephen Flaherty, lyrics by Lynn Arons, based on the 1994 film of the same name set in Dublin. It follows bus conductor Alfie Byrne. You know what? I don't want to spoil it for myself. So in other words, as long as you're out of the house, Lex, you don't care about what the dog and cats and children feel.

I think that the... Lauren can just do her laps. The kids are good at hiding. I will say Liam spends the most time in the basement because that's where his drums are and that's where the video games are. And so he has complained about the impact of what steps on the ceiling. We all know about Liam's proclivities. For the underground.

But I think that because they spend a lot of times in their rooms which run another floor or whatever, that they would agree that if it were at a time when nobody else is in the kitchen dining room area, that it would be far less annoying. How cold is it in the basement? Oh, so cold. I mean, the thermostat sometimes it's in the 50s. It's cold down there.

Right now it's 63 degrees in the basement. But it's warmer outside now. But can I add one other complaint about using the treadmill in the basement? So the way our basement is set up, the TV that we have down there, not the one by the treadmill, but like in the main area,

is up against this wall and its speakers built in. There have been times when I've wanted to use the treadmill while Liam or Liam and Lex are both playing rock band or guitar hero or Madden or whatever. But the way that the sound carries there where the wall is, the volume is so much louder in the room with the treadmill than it is in the room that they are in. And there's a constant war about you have to turn it down. It's too loud.

You have to turn it down. It's too loud. So, I mean, in those scenarios, obviously I should walk upstairs if you guys are going to be playing. If we're already down there and can't hear you, I think that's wonderful. But I would also say that Liam and I would be happy to work with you on a schedule that works for you. I appreciate that. Lex, Lauren says that the basement is cold.

What is the temperature in the basement now, if you happen to know? I just checked at this moment, it is 63 degrees in the basement. Okay, but it's springtime now. Yes. We're recording this. How cold does it get, Lauren? I mean, it can be in the low 50s down there before. Before you start.

High 50s. High 50s. I would say it's in the high 50s. Low 50s, I would be concerned. Lauren, you've checked the, surely you've checked the thermostat down there when you've gone down there. I have certainly checked. What is the number you remember? I will say 55 to sort of split the difference there.

I mean, it's been a while. It's been months. Why not trust your own experience? 52, I bet it was. Fine. It was 48. I don't know. Let's go with 48.

35. Negative 6. I just don't like one spouse saying. that the low 50s is the high 50s. I gotta say, Lex, that's pretty cold. It probably would take a while for that to warm up. I am very impressed with how quickly it can warm things up. I'd also be happy to leave it at a baseline temperature

if we said, hey, let's just always make sure the basement's never colder than 65 degrees. I'd be happy to do that. What about a space heater? Could you put a little space heater by the treadmill and turn it on when you get started? We probably could. What about wearing a snuggy or like a blanket?

blanket. You brought this up. I did not. Counselor, you open this door. I mean, Judge, you open this door. You could say your honor. Your honor. You open this door. I literally. I'll let you walk through it, counselor. What's what's going on? I literally wrote the book on Snuggies. Excuse me? There is a book that you can buy today. I mean, nobody does anymore. What was the title of the book? The Snuggie Sutra. It was a humor book that was hugging and kissing positions with Snuggies. And for years, it was a bestseller on Amazon and the humor category, especially as like a bridal shower gift that people would buy with Snuggies. Wow. I'm so happy to buzz market your book. I haven't thought about that in a while.

It doesn't do as well on Kindles. But the illustrations are lovely. Yeah, it's cute. The Snuggie Sutra. Co-authored by you, Lex. Everyone can look it up. I'm not going to say your last name because generally we don't. And Megan is your co-author there. That's right. She illustrated. I mean, I'm just picturing, walking on the treadmill in a Snuggie and it's going to to, I guess there's no wind, but picturing it billowing out behind me, like a cape. No, don't do it. Let me be very, very clear. That was a joke.

Do not wear a snuggy on a treadmill. That's like, I know what you should do? Wear a really long scarf on the treadmill. Something that would reach the floor. Who was the famous actress who died because her scarf got caught in the? Isadora Duncan? Jennifer Marmer comes in. with the win.

Jennifer Marmer didn't even have to search for scarf death. She had a tab open. Yeah, do not wear a snuggy or a blanket on a treadmill. That's dangerous. Lauren, aside from the health benefit of getting the steps, describe the feeling that you get from walking around the house. To get a little, my master's in special education, I'm just going to throw that out there,

but to get a little educational on this, walking through space. Can I just say? you shouldn't be a shame to say that. No, I just meant that I was going to start teaching stuff. I think it's a little more impressive than having written a book of snuggy sex. But, you know, moving through space gives your body proprioceptive input, which helps, like, regulate your nervous system. And I wasn't expecting to find that moving through space did that for me as much as it does. And I think that I just found, I felt happier and less, like, you know, when you're walking on the treadmill, sometimes you're like, oh, I still got, I still got, I.

You think you're almost, like Lex and I have talked about this before, that you'll think that so much time is past and you look and it's been 35 seconds and you've only walked, you know, a quarter mile or whatever. Not in 35 seconds, but you know what I mean. But, or, you know, that, you know, the treadmill has a screen that can track your distance and it can track your time or whatever. And there's times where it's just a drag. But I find when I'm walking and moving through space, it feels like it's going faster for me. And it doesn't feel like that just slog of just walking. And even if I'm watching something on TV or reading something or doing a language up, I still find that whenever I'm walking on the treadmill, it just feels like I can't wait

to be finished and meet the goal that I want to meet and be done. And I don't find that when I am moving through a space. Lauren, I'm working from like seven-year-old occupational therapy memories from my kids, but there's something about the bilateral movement as well, the like oppositional part of moving your legs and your arms. You'd want to also be crossing your midline a little bit more, which I certainly am not walking around the house like this. But, yeah, that, you know. For those who are not watching the video, it was like Lauren was pretending that she was holding a baton at the head of a parade.

You know what, John, it's like really moving her arms back and forth. John, I'm having a hard time seeing it because Lauren is obscured by the chair. Is there anything we could do to help me be able to see what motion Lauren was doing? I just can't see it because just because the chair is in the way and she's too far from maybe if she, I don't know, is there something she could. Jennifer, do you have any suggestions? Stand up and do it. Stand up and do it. Yeah.

Do dance for the camera. That's great, Lauren. I still can't see it. But I think for us to, for me to really be able to judge this, I do need you to take off the headphones and walk that way, but not in place like go in circles around the chairs. So I really get a sense. Absolutely. Here we go. Of what Lex is dealing with here.

Thank you. I will note this floor is carpeted. So imagine the climbing. No, no, I understand. And Lex, do me a favor. Tell Lauren. But I don't walk like this. She's got her head comes on.

Tell Lauren that I want her to keep doing it until I ask you to tell her. He wants you to keep doing it. He wants you to keep doing it until he tells you to stop. Which walk are we doing? They want to see the funny walk, I believe. She wants to know if you want to see the actual walk or if you want her to continue to do the crossing the midline wall.

I want to see both. He wants to see both. This is the funny walk. Okay, so normal walking. Now she's getting her app. Right. Okay. So this is where she's now walking with her phone

as though she's walking down a Manhattan street and she doesn't know what the hell how to live in a city properly. Right. But I also imagine she's saying like, comucho gusto. Now, Lex, as this is happening, I want you to imagine that you're in your own home.

How does this make you feel? It is so incredibly annoying. Can you elaborate a little bit? We've heard the word annoying, but go deeper. I appreciate that Lauren is getting the steps that she wants. I admire anybody's fitness journey. At the same time, that very short loop has a repetitive quality that's similar to the annoyance I might feel if there were like a thumping sound from a broken radiator or

something that's just happening over and over and over again. It's the repetitiveness of the same thing happening. I agreed with your math. It's something like 60 or so loops when she's doing it at home. But it was not a joke when I said it feels like 10 times that number. It feels like it happens 600 times if you're sitting in the kitchen or if you're even just in the living room and you're just watching it happen over and over again. It is there's something about it that's not just. Yeah, that's it.

It's not just mind numbing. It's actually grating. I am a big fan of Lawrence. I would even say, I love Lauren. I'm probably Lauren's biggest fan on the planet. Thank you. But I, this part is so annoying. And honestly, one of the things I,

love most about Lauren is that she has acknowledged. Oh, no, it is incredibly annoying. I'm still going to do it. Sure. So it's not just the sound, because we did hear from the video that there is a thump, thump, thump. Yes. And obviously it's, it's, it gets in the way of your leaving the pantry door open to have her walking through the kitchen. But it is also just the psychic intrusion upon your life. Right. Does it provoke anxiety? I appreciate that question, Jesse, because like, Because like even today, I'm checking really quick. I'm at 9,620 steps because of the basement treadmill this morning. There is some anxiety for me in part like, should I also be getting steps right now?

Should I leave where I am and go to the kitchen, go back to the basement and get some more steps? Should I join this crazy kitchen? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry, Lex. You're at 9,000 what? 9,620 steps.

And what is your goal for the day? 10,000. Okay. take off your headphones and go on a little bit of my headphones. I don't know how we'll know when we're supposed to go back on headphones. Just get started. Keep going. Now we'll never know. We're both walking now. You're joining my loop. I'm joining the loop. That's annoying. I have to get to 10,000. I'm assuming you're supposed to be. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my chambers.

In fact, I'm going to walk to my chambers. I'll be back and I'll think it over as I'm pacing around. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John. Hodgman exits the courtroom. I mean, I feel like I could play by play this. What we're seeing is a loving couple walking in circles around two brown leather or perhaps

leatherette chairs. They're doing it pretty enthusiastically. Despite her best efforts, Lauren is occasionally slipping into silly walk. It might just be because she's having such a good time walking. They've just switched directions.

Lex is switch. And now, John is also walking around in circles. Wow. Okay, Jennifer, you're going to have to hold down the show for a minute because I know what I have to do. Oh my gosh. This is going to stop watching. 10,000 steps later. How do you feel about your chances in the case right now, Lauren? I don't feel like the odds are in my favor.

Just going to have to get a giant trampoline. That's always the answer. The answer, as I understand it, having talked to a lot of occupational therapists, as always, you're going to have to have a giant trampoline. That would be great. Lex, how are you feeling about your chances? It is no secret for people who know me that I love this very podcast. And part of what I love about it is that I'm so frequently surprised by Judge John Hodgman's rulings.

This whole time I have been wondering, how is he going to rule? I would say I genuinely have no idea. So I would say I feel entirely a coin flip. I have no idea which way this is going to go. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hoshman has to say about all this in just a moment. let me just say that I beg of you, if you're listening to this, please join Maximum Fund by going to maximum fund.org slash join right now because we're going to have to spend a lot of money on new sneakers for John. He has been walking this entire time. We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman

podcast. It's the Max Fund drive and we want to ask you to think about becoming a member of Maximum Fund. Five bucks a month will do it at maximum fund.org slash join. John, I've been thinking about the media that I put into my ear holes and eye holes and that I use to fill the inside of my brain lately and here's the truth. It is very easy to find media right now that will make you feel worse. We are on year 10 of the world being on fire.

We are surrounded by platforms that prioritize conflict and bad vibes. And bad faith? And bad faith. To the extent that anyone is out there making money, they're making money by freaking people out, whether it's in the direction of righteousness or the direction of whatever the opposite of righteousness is, right?

Yeah. You know what makes me feel really bad when I'm accidentally exposed to that media that you're talking about, those platforms, the social media, those places where bots and bad faith people are out there making me feel bad. What makes me really feel bad

is that I realized it got tricked by a corporation into looking at it and sometimes working for it. Yeah. So here's not just like mean people, right? It's the fact that mean people have been empowered to make you feel bad so you respond so that some, corporation makes a lot of money.

So here's the thing. We've been making Judge John Hodgman for practically 20 years now. And when people ask me what Judge John Hodgman is about, I start by saying it's a comedy show. It's like the people's court or Judge Judy. But there's a difference between our show and the people's court or Judge Judy. And it's not just that our show is funny. It's that our show is about people who love each other.

who are seeking resolution of their conflict. What they want is to return to peace and connection with somebody that they care about. This isn't somebody that crashed into a parked car and wants someone to pay for the body panel. This is about a brother and a sister who want to be reconnected, a parent and a child, two best friends.

These are the relationships that we hear about. on Judge Sean Hoshman, right? Yeah. And what we have learned over the years of making this show is that what we do that is different is we listen to people, we get to know people, and we help people reconnect, right? It's still a comedy show. We're so goofing around. Yes, some would argue.

But ultimately, at the heart of this thing is restorative. feelings. You know, it's reconciliation. That's what Judge John Hodgman is about. That is to me the dead set opposite of what every social media platform wants you to have. Of what, you know, frankly what most of the click-changing, chasing publications, whether they be, you know, audio, video, or type that are out there want you to feel. Because the truth is that conflict, juices you up and you click on the star button or the thumbs up button or the angry button or whatever and that's what feeds that algorithm that shows you more of that thing. Judge John Hodgman is 45 minutes long and it's about reconciliation feelings. It's the opposite of that. And I know from

talking to our listeners because when we go out on tour, you know, we do meet and greets sometimes for hours and we hear from listeners. We know that that is something that is meaningful to you. We know that it is meaningful to people to be able to have something that they can listen to with their spouse, that they can listen to with their kids, that they can listen to on a long road trip, that they can listen to when they're going somewhere tough and know that they're listening to a show that is about reconciliation, that is about restoring positive feeling to the world. And that's what we're asking you to support at Judge John Hodgman. We're asking you to support that and support the creators directly. We make the show and we are the ones you are supporting. The folks who help us make the show at Maximum Fund, you are supporting them. You're not supporting an angel investor.

This is a worker-owned cooperative. You're supporting the people that work on the show directly. That's why we're asking you to go to maximum fund.org slash join. You know, one of the many people who work on the show directly and very centrally, of course, is our producer, Jennifer Marmer. And Jennifer is the one. If you've ever been, been lucky enough to do a pre-interview with her to be on the show, you know what a delight she is, what a curious and wonderful person with good taste she is. And I know I rely on Jennifer because not just to make a podcast, but like to brighten my week. Because every week when I get to sit down to do Judge John Hodgman

with you, Jesse and with Jennifer and with, you know, Megan and Daniel and AJ who's editing down in Austin, Texas, et cetera. But what I'm looking forward to equally is I'm about to meet two really interesting strangers that Jennifer and to a smaller degree I discovered through your submissions. And having conversations with strangers is so, so rewarding to me. Because what you're talking about in terms of the, the sort of quote unquote social media that has captured our brains so successfully and I would say malignantly is no one's talking to each other. They're they're yelling and screaming and

talking past each other and they're not seeing each other and they're not listening each other. And it's because it's it's structured that way. And again, it's for corporate profit. We all know what's going to solve this situation, which is people talking to each other. because when you do, you discover, you remember like, oh, you recall your own curiosity about other people. You recall your own delight in other people's sense of humor and interesting points of view. And I'm going to be talking every week to folks like you, the listeners and the members and the litigants and everything else who are just like, I'm just delighted to get to know people. And it makes me feel really, really good.

And I do get that feedback from you as well, that for the, you know, for the listener, too. It is a respite and a reminder that talking to one another and listening to one another, it makes all conflict feel a little bit like a comedy show to a degree. I got to tell you this, John, you met my dad before he passed away. My dad, my dad, Lee Thorne was an organizer. He was an organizer his entire adult life. When he got out of the Navy, he came home to California and started organizing for peace. and I learned some stuff about the way the world changes from my dad.

And one of the things I learned was you cannot organize by telling. You can only organize by asking and listening. You have to open your ears and your heart. You cannot simply point and tell someone you should be doing this. Right. And the other thing is that it takes the full complement of emotion to change the world, right? Like my dad and his vet friends who organized to end the war in Vietnam were certainly angry. And they were certainly sad.

But I can tell you from having spent a lot of time with them, they were also happy and joyful. Yeah. And my dad said to me, I will never forget the day my dad said to me, and we can bleep this swear, but he said, if you can't laugh about it, what the point? And what I am proud about, about Judge John Hodgman is that we try and, look, is this a show about listing the problems in the world and the, uh, the, the people you should go yell at. No, maybe that is part of how we change the world. This is a show about refilling your battery. This is a show about listening to people.

This is a show about connecting with others. And I really believe that. I mean, it's also a dumb comedy show. But I think dumb comedy is good also. I'm really sorry to interrupt you, but I just got a notification on my phone from a major newspaper. Uh-huh.

This is a major headline. Okay. World got fixed. Judge John Hodgman, primarily responsible. So I guess we can shut down the Max Fund Drive now because we did it. We make this show, right? We make this show that we're proud of.

And one of the things that I'm most proud of about it is that we give the show away. We have a strict limit on the number of ads. and we make something that we think should be in the world. I mean, you could tell by the passion in my voice when I talk about our show. Like we make choices on the show, right? I care about the show. And I want people to be able to hear it.

Guess what I do too. Yeah. Like, I want people to be able to hear our show. That's why we make it free for everybody, right? But the only way that it works at being free for everybody is if you are in this audience and you are hearing our voice right now, if you choose to pay for it. Because there's folks out there

who truly cannot pay for it and we want them to get to continue to enjoy the show. But if you're one of the folks who can come up with, again, about five bucks a month, you know what I mean? 60 bucks is less than the last time

I took all my kids to the movies, you know? Yeah. That's a year's worth. We're asking you to go to maximum fund.org slash join and make sure that this show can thrive and that we can keep it free for everybody.

Jesse, you know, I met your dad. Of course, I know your mom, too. I also have a wonderful dad. My dad, he was a business guy. And, you know, I never was a business guy. You know, he only asked me one thing when I went to college. Take a bookkeeping course. And I'm like, you can do whatever weird stuff you want to do.

Study comic books for money, sure. But take a bookkeeping course. And I said to him, I'm not going to. Not because I'm a rebel. Because it's like, I just won't understand it. And indeed, you know, I will go back and go, what's going on with Judge John Hodgman? Have you considered selling to a larger network? And I'm like, I can't do that math.

That's not why I do anything. And while there was a time, I suppose, in the podcast industry, when that could have made me a little bit of coin. You too, Jesse, I suppose. I'm sure glad we didn't do it. because most of those big corporate podcast companies are cratering now. From the beginning, I would say to my dad, the only thing that makes sense to me is to make something that people care about and two weeks a year ask them to pay me directly and Jesse too

and support all of the people at maximum fun. The only thing that makes sense to me, S-E, not C-E-N-T-S, is working with a community of professionals at maximum fund who own their own company with creators who own their own IP and do it for listeners who, if they have the means, support us directly. It's an understanding of business that I can put my hands on because everything else is just outside my capacity of understanding

and I wouldn't want to do it anyway. And if I had done it, it would have done bad business because we wouldn't be doing the show anymore because we would have been canceled. Or some corporate executive would have noted us to death and something, or maybe they would have taken our IP and given it to somebody. Or, you know, who knows what could have happened. There is no way that we could be doing this show if we were working for anyone else but

you. There is no way we could be doing this show if we were supported by ad revenue. Because frankly, it's just not enough to support the work and the value that we bring you. The only way it works is that if a certain number of you realize, hey, I love this. they're asking me to support it. This is a year I can do it. I'm typing it in right now, maximum fun.org slash join.

I'm going to do it. And I hope that that's you right now. I hope if you're listening right now, whoever you are, I hope that you're going to do it because I think ultimately, you know, this is not media that makes you feel bad.

This is media that makes me feel good, makes you feel good, makes Jesse feel good. I hope and trust that everyone who works on the show feels the same, the same feeling of like, Like, we're doing something that's valuable and we're not doing anything that's malignant. And it's a rare job these days and a rare thing to contribute to that allows you to do that.

Do you know what I'm thinking of? What? I'm thinking at that time my dad called me. And he said, how's the show going with your friend Houseman? Yeah. It's a me, houseman. Maximumfund.org slash join is the place to go. And for all of you who have been members for years and years and years, we're so grateful to you.

Thank you. You know, there's an actor named John Hausman who used to do an ad said, we make money the old-fashioned way. We earn it. John Hausman, famous actor, character actor. And you know what? I think that we've earned it. I think that we've earned your support. We work really hard to earn it.

We really do. And if you agree with us, please, maximum fund.org slash join. Do it now. Please. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. He's still walking. He's still pacing. I like that he brought his little blue notebook with him. Oh, that's going to be today's gavel. Well, Jesse, this is not a little blue notebook actually. Hang on, I'm genuinely out of breath. This is it's not actually a little blue notebook. It's actually the new novel by Emma Straub, American Fantasy. The other day, I walked through space all the way over to Cobble Hill to pick this up at Books Our Magic. Talk about that in a moment. We've been plugging quite a few things here today,

water bottles, language apps, community theater. Obviously, Maximumfund.org slash join J.J.H.O. Also want to plug Offerman Woodshop, where they are, we have now settled on a style of wood that we are using to build the brand new giant gavel of this court of Judge John Hodgman. I believe it is an ash. It's going to be made of ash wood, the ash tree. I'll let you know what I know for sure. In the meantime, though, I've been using makeshift gavels made of books that I throw at the, well, you know, I throw at the person that I rule against, I suppose. I don't know.

I choose her to through the book at later. This week's book is American Fantasy by Emma Straub, who's a terrific author, and this is a wonderful, fun, wise, and funny novel about a woman who goes on a themed cruise, a 90s boy band reunion cruise on a ship called the American Fantasy, and it's a lot of fun, and I'm going to throw it at one of you, but first I have to decide who that's going to be. So I used to have a treadmill in the basement. When we would live sometimes in Western Massachusetts,

I needed to get a little exercise. And so I did get a treadmill, and I put it in the basement because, frankly, the hills of Western Massachusetts were too hilly for me to walk on. and no sidewalks either and I was afraid of getting run over. So I put a treadmill in the basement and unlike your basement,

it was an extremely bleak, a daddy long-leg stuffed basement full of dripping pipes and murderous side chambers. And I thought that I would make it a little bit more appealing to myself. It was by opening the doors to the basement. It was a walkout basement

because the house was built on a hill. So there were full-sized doors, and I put the treadmill in front of the doors, and I would open them, and I could look out onto the lush greenery that was outside, unless it was wintertime, which I looked at the bare, cold, empty trees. What I didn't realize was I was also inviting 10,000 mice into the home. And we ended up dealing with a horrible mouse infestation, which was not only bothersome to me, but also apparently Mike Fribiglia. I'm not going to tell the rest of that story. Point is, I should have maybe recused myself

because the minute I heard treadmill and basement, I was like, no thank you. There's no way I'm ever going to force someone to walk on a treadmill in a basement. Now, I didn't recuse myself. It does sound like you have something a little bit more appealing than the dank mouse trap

that was my basement. And yet, I have to agree with, Lauren, that treadmills aren't for everybody, that there is a very meaningful difference between moving through space and moving while standing still, paradoxically. Which isn't to say, I don't get on a treadmill from time to time at the YMCA, I do. But at least that's facing, it's in the middle of the room facing other treadmills. So I feel like I'm of the world not trapped in a dystopian prison. of some kind. But even then, I prefer moving through space. I find it to be more ruminative,

more meditative, more psychologically therapeutic as it is physically therapeutic. I like feeling that I'm going someplace. Even though I do enjoy watching an episode of Letterkenny on the treadmill, that's about as long as I can take it, 25 minutes or so, which isn't always long enough, if you want to get to 10,000 steps. This isn't to say that your attitude is wrong, Lex. People are whole human beings in their own right, and they have different preferences, and they respond to different things. The other thing about treadmills, though, is like you might really enjoy having the data right in front of you, of how many steps you've taken, how many calories you've burned, how much time has passed, how much time you have left, et cetera, et cetera. Some people get amped by the data,

where other people, and I think that's like me and Lauren, get damped by the data. It's just a drag to see that time passing. Moving through space to some degree really improves that feeling. For me. With that in mind, though, I have transitioned to swimming at the YMCA, which is a different form of moving through space, but very quickly, I am reminded while swimming of a different novelty humor book, one that you did not write when you were writing your

book about hugging and kissing in a snuggy. The book I was thinking of was one that came out in the 1990s when I was working at the literary agency. We had a copy of this book around because it was selling like the hottest cakes, which was What's Worrying Gus, the true story of a big city bear? Do you guys remember the story of the story? of Gus, the polar bear in, I believe it was in the Central Park Zoo. It may have been in the Bronx Zoo here in New York City. Gus was a polar bear who swam obsessively back and forth, unceasingly in his enclosure, because he was profoundly depressed, because he was a polar bear in an enclosure.

I don't blame Gus. But it really caught everybody's attention, and I think it made people rightly think maybe we shouldn't be keeping a polar bear in a small enclosure in an urban zoo. But Gus swam back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And I couldn't help thinking about that when I was swimming back and forth in the pool. And I couldn't help thinking about it when I was watching both of you circle your chairs just now. It may be more therapeutic to Lauren to move through space in her. her own home. And were she living alone, I would encourage her to do that all the time. But aside from

the noise and the running into people and the bother of getting in the way of opening the pantry door and leaving it open, et cetera, et cetera, I have to say that I really did, I did sympathize with Lex saying that it is a psychological distraction to him. to see this essentially repetitive motion happening. It's a strange feeling. And I believe that his feelings are as valuable as yours, Lauren. Yes, I said it, even with two black marks against him for wordplay. But yes, I do believe that his feelings matter too.

So much of exercise is psychological, both how you get yourself to do it and the benefit that accrues to you by doing it, you know? And it's very, very personal. Do you want the data? Do you not want the data? Do you want to move through space? Do you not want to move through space? Can you swim back and forth in the pool without feeling like a depressed polar bear?

Yes, if you get, or if you're a wonderful wife who's a whole being a neuron, right, gets you waterproof headphones so you can listen to your podcasts. And then time passes and exercise becomes better. None of us. Look, there are a few of us who. like to exercise, but not many of us really do. And I really do think that you need to do what it takes to make it happen for yourself. But that said, you know, if there were a YMCA and you are walking on the track, and there are rules to what direction you walk in on the track and, you know,

where you pass other people. Like it's, you have to be able to move through space without being a nuisance to others. And frankly, Lauren, I'm afraid to say that also means being a psychological nuisance to others. I think that it is cruel and unusual punishment for you to go into any basement, no matter how finished, to walk on a treadmill if that is not for you. But you are moving through not just space, but shared space. And while I thoroughly, thoroughly order Lex to close the damn pantry door, leaving doors and cupboards open is one thing that is psychological

torture to me, even thinking about it in your home, which I promise you, I will never visit. I considered it to be a profound distraction. Those things must be closed. But other than that, you need to be as respectful of not just Lex, but also your children and your animals. Look, this is a question that I meant to ask, but I failed to. Be honest, Lauren, you ever step on a cat's tail or what? I have never stepped on the cat's tail. We have all trips. We have all trips. over the dog. Yeah, I was going to say, Cody's a dumb dog, though. You've definitely bonked into that dog, right? Yeah. You deserve and they deserve exercise and peace, and I don't really think that it's feasible to do this loop in your house. Now that springtime is upon us, we can kick this can down the

road a little bit while you go outside literally on the road. And I don't know, maybe try kicking a can down it. That could be fun exercise too. But while you're walking outside, I want you to walk to a gym, a YMCA, or a mall that might still be open, where you can do your cold time walking in peace. You deserve that piece. And frankly, I think that maybe you had another, let's say, 63 laps per session, maybe you had another 500 to 600 laps before you realize that walking in a circle in your house is going to make you feel like a depressed polar bear too. eventually that was going to get beyond weird and depressing. I'm sorry to say. I have to order in Lex's favor here and throw this book, American Fantasy, by Emma Straub, at you, Lauren. Maybe you could get this on audiobook and listen to it while you're finding a good

indoor place where you can work in private, and do your workout in private, I mean. because whether it's work, play, or getting a snack, your family deserves to do those things in the shared space without getting run over by their own mom. That would be a tragedy. So this book is the sound of a gavel. Lex, you're going to shut that pantry door from now on and otherwise Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Lauren, how do you feel about this decision? at least it's not the sewer museum that's all I'm going to say Lex how are you feeling I mean I'm happy with the verdict I'm feeling for Lauren because I know firsthand the pain of leaving the house to work out because now you have to motivate yourself twice like one I have to leave

and then go do the exercising thing but I'm very happy about the verdict it will restore sanity or as much of it as our household ever has Well, Lex and Lauren, it's been a joy talking to you. Thank you for joining us. I'm the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

Max Fund Drive 2026 is about to end. We're coming to you one last time. You've heard all kinds of reasons to become a Max Fund member and support the work that we do. You heard about the bonus content. You heard about the thank you gifts that you can get. Listen, the most important thing is that If you support our show today, if you go to maximum fund.org slash join, you are making a real difference,

a direct impact supporting the media that you like. You will help us make the show. It's just five bucks a month to join. And you can do so right now at maximum fund.org slash join JJHO. That's maximum fund.org slash join JJHO, all small letters, all one word, join JJHO. Okay, we're going to have Swift Justice in just a second. First, our thanks to Redator Melvillian for naming this week's episode Pace Dismissed. Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered at Wrecked Productions in Tinton Falls, New Jersey. Megan Rossotti runs our social media, the podcast edited by A.J. McKin.

Our video editor, Daniel Spear, our producer is Jennifer Marmer. All right, Swift Justice. Here we go, John. Jiminy Cricket, 81. Yeah. Did you see that sequel to Jiminy, cricket, by the way. It's the best of the Jiminy Cricket series as far as I'm concerned. We're at 75 Hollywood stars in Jiminy Cricket, 81. That's right. All in a burning cricket.

Okay, here we go. Our dog Grover is offended that Jesse Thorne said his butt looks like the YMCA logo. Grover says he doesn't see it. What dog are we talking about? I don't remember YMCA. I turned the page. No, it looks like the YMCA logo. For a little context, we... I forgot about this dog. We had an episode called Breaches of Contract with Mike and Gabby. Gabby complained about Mike's pants.

And Grover... There's a picture of Mike and his pants. I remember the pants guy. And their dog Grover just happens to be in the photo showing his butt off. And you said the butt looked like a YMCA logo. And it... I mean,

It's really, it does look like a logo. It looks like, I mean... Is that the Special Olympics logo maybe? I feel like, yeah, maybe that's what it is. Let me look that up, the Special Olympics logo. It's got, it's definitely got a Special Olympics logo vibe to it. Yeah. Basically, it looks like a body with two outstretched hands and the dog's poophole is the head.

Yeah, I think it's a Special Olympics logo. It's something, and I think Special Olympics is closer. It still makes me think of something else, too. Take a look at the photo of the pants of this dog. Listeners, we need your help. What does this dog's butt look like? Give us a call. Honestly, go to maximum fun.org slash join.

And if you can leave a comment, let us know as you join what this dog's butt's logo, what logo this dog's butt looks like. Can't even say it anymore. Okay, everybody, this is it. This is our last call for cases for our exciting upcoming episode with Rachel read, author of the novel Heated Rivalry and the entire Game Changers series that your favorite TV show is based on. What is the worst romance novel trope? Speaking of romance novel tropes, did your enemy become your lover? What is your meat cute or meat not so cute story?

Do you wish hockey had more yearning in it? Send all of your heated rivalry related cases to us right now at Maximumfund.org slash J.J.HO. And of course, we are always eager to hear all your disputes on any subject. No case is too small. So remember to submit those cases at maximum fund.org slash JJHO. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network of artists-owned shows. Supported directly by you.