Judge John Hodgman - Parents Just Don't Understand

Episode Date: March 16, 2011

Should a father be able to compell his teenage daughter to watch classic films? Or does a 16-year-old deserve autonomy in her entertainment choices?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, parents just don't understand. Our plaintiff, Ava Guile, is an 11th grader. She says that her father should not be allowed to dictate what movies she watches. Apparently, the defendant, Mike, has instituted an informal film literacy program at home, asking Avagile to stay home on Saturday nights and watch films with him. Is this reasonable? Outrageous? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Come before me, ye who seek the Hodges justice. You may be seated. Another interesting new catchphrase attempt, Judge Hodgman. Catchphrases are the only way we're going to sell this thing. I was counting on selling it with our good looks. It's a perfect approach for radio.

I figured this would be the Baywatch of podcasting. Well, it may, it may be, I may be replaced by Pamela Anderson at any moment. Should I not be wearing a two-piece string bikini? I'm sure you're wearing an extremely nice formal two-piece string bikini that you got from an estate sale. I suspect in Blackwatch plaid or, um, it is. Yeah, exactly. I suspect in Blackwatch plaid. It is. Yeah, exactly. If I know Bale of Jesse Thorne, I know what kind of bikini he wants to wear.

And you know my preference in tartans. I do. I do. Well, it's anyone's preference, really. Abigail, Mike. Oh, you people are here. Hello. Yes, really uncomfortable, but we're here.

I'm sorry. You'll get to sit down again in a moment. I understand that you have requested a special swearing in, or in this case, non-swearing in. That is correct, Your Honor. And so how would you like to be non-sworn in? Well, we would like to affirm. Because you recognize no higher authority, is that correct? For religious reasons, we prefer not to swear. That's between us and God. Okay, great. Abigail, Mike, do you affirm that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? We do. Do you affirm that you will abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the high probability that it will be ill-considered and possibly dangerous? I do. All right.

You may be seated. I don't even know where you are at this point. Are you seated or standing? Well, I thought we could sit down. I'm seated, yeah. I know from the evidence that you have already submitted that you have some comfy chairs in your household. Do you not? We do indeed.

Well, go ahead and make yourselves comfortable then. Who is the complainant? Is it Avigael? Yes. The problem is that you have a comfortable then. Who is the complainant? Is it Avigael? Yes. The problem is that you have a loving father. Let's take it from there. Yes, you can say that. My essential complaint is that often my father will try to sit me down and tell me,

oh, this movie was on and I recorded it and it's a great movie and you need to watch it. And I'll have homework to do or I'll have plans with a friend. And essentially, I feel that I should not have to sit down and watch a movie because my father feels that it is worth watching. And what is your age? I am 16. All right. And when does your father wish to do this? Often. Does he wake you up in the middle of the night? He does not. Two o'clock in the morning? Avigal. Avigal. It has not gone that far yet. Okay. What, does he wake you up in the middle of the night? He does not. Two o'clock in the morning? Avigal.

Avigal. It has not gone that far yet. Okay. What time does he usually want to do this? Usually in the evening at like, you know, seven or eight or nine o'clock. Nine o'clock is quite late on a school night. Yeah. What?

Sometime. You've sent me some evidence, have you not? Some written evidence? I have. Can you explain the evidence to me? I see Exhibit A here are examples of movies that you have been forced to watch and did not like. Yes. So the movies that I listed were The Magnificent Seven and The African Queen. Two movies that he loves and thinks are great classic movies, but I still were

not a good use of my time. Oh, and you wanted to be going out dating and huffing paint down by the sip and go and doing all the teenage things. Right. But have you ever enjoyed any of these movies? I listed two movies that I enjoyed. Yes. I listed The Unsuchables. Right.

And Duck Soup, which is a classic Marx Brothers movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't need to tell me about Duck Soup. That's fine. I got it. You should understand that both Judge Hodgman and I grew up in very strict households, so we're familiar with these films.

We ate all of our spinach and we watched all of our classic Marx Brothers movies. Yes, exactly so. That was two movies out of four that you did not feel you were wasting your time sitting down with your father enjoying a classic film. Yes, it's more the principle of the thing. That, you know, I could be spending the time doing homework or out with friends.

You really, you would rather be spending your time doing homework? Is that, you really want the court to believe that? Well, I need to get it done at some point. Right. And if your dad's bothering you with movies all the time, that's not going to happen? Right. Okay. What about The Seven Samurai? Seven Sam time, that's not going to happen? Right. Okay. What about The Seven Samurai?

Seven Samurai? I'm not familiar. Uh-huh. What about Blade Runner? Have not seen that. Okay. Interesting. Well, Father, what do you have to say for yourself?

Well, Your Honor, I don't want to come across as this sort of draconian film instructor. Don't worry. You are. All right. Well, I do feel that in school, they go out of their way to teach the kids about classic literature, but they don't really teach about classic movies. And I sort of feel that it's my job as a parent,

either because of the great quality of the movie or because of the cultural relevance of the movie as an American, that it's sort of my job to expose her to these things. And I also feel that this is really great father-daughter bonding time that I try not to get in the way, obviously, of her homework or her social life, but on occasion, on a Saturday night, it's nice to hang out with your parents and watch a movie that they enjoyed when they were younger, too. Right, because I presume for the past 15 years you've had no father-daughter bonding time? Oh, we've had five. You've been out traveling the country going from film festival to film festival? We're not really movie hobos. We usually watch at home. Okay, all right. Just watch

the hobo references, please. Because nothing's going to make me more suspicious than a hobo reference. Apologies, you're... You're trying to get me to play favorites, I understand. What are you, some kind of film professor? I am not. I am a high school teacher. Whoa, at your daughter's high school? Indeed. Fantastic.

So how big a high school is it? Two people? Is this a homeschool situation? It's not a big high school. There's about 100 kids in the high school. So it's a small, is it public or a private high school? It is a private Jewish high school. And you teach, I'm sorry, what do you teach again film theory i teach judaic

studies i teach jewish history talmud bible right and you can't work magnificent seven into your curriculum sadly there were very few jewish cowboys across the border in mexico what about yule brinner what was his religious persuasion i am unaware but i do think he was hungarian let's just see here russian-born. Religion. I don't know. Does it explain why he had that weird accent in the American South? Well, he was dying of cancer. For heaven's sake, sir. Don't be a monster. Now listen. You presented some evidence as well?

I did, sir. You sent me about 35 to 40 photographs of various recliners in your home under the heading of evidence of comfy viewing area. And you are clearly a family that takes comfort very seriously, and I appreciate that. You not only have one terrific looking tan recliner, which is essentially a beanbag chair for grownups. But you also have one of my favorite items, a double recliner separated by a drop-down drink and food tray. Is that correct? That is correct, Your Honor. Nice.

A man could do some serious Judaic studies in a chair like that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, indeed. And I see pictures of children sitting on these chairs. Evidence of children relaxing in front of TV is the caption. These are your children or did you did you bring in some children to pose for these photos? No, no. I came by those the honest, old fashioned way. You also have some evidence here of let's see, of the birthplace of Jerry Siegel, creator of Superman. What is that? What does that have to do with anything, or are you just bragging?

No, no. I'm just trying to show that I see part of my job as a parent to expose my children to various cultural aspects of American life that they wouldn't get in school. Right. And it's not just these occasional movie viewing, but it's part of a broader parental curriculum that I'm trying to employ. And so you're a pretty cool teach. Do they call you teach? They call me rabbi. Okay.

Which maybe will be the name of my autobiography now. All right. Now, you also have a TV, excuse me, a TiVo list. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove here. Evidence of varied playlist. What is this? Well, I let my kids choose what shows they want to watch, and I also choose things that I think would be fun for us to watch together. I don't make them

only watch the shows that I want them to watch. I let them choose their own things for the playlist too. Okay, so we see American Masters, Star Wars, The Clone Wars, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, No Ordinary Family, Mad, Parks and Rec, and Payback. Would it surprise you if I told you that I had never seen The Magnificent Seven, and that's perhaps why I do not know what religion is Yul Brynner? It would. Yeah, no, I'm a seven samurai man myself. Nor have I seen The African Queen.

Sir, am I a fool to you? No, sir. Now, I also see on your upcoming list that Abigail is a little wary about, we have Boys from Brazil. Really, sir? Boys from Brazil? I think it's a great suspenseful movie from the 70s with two great actors, Gregory Peck and Laurence Olivier. Can you give me a little plot synopsis? Well, I don't want to give away too much to my daughter, but it has to do with a Nazi plot to bring back Adolf Hitler. I'm starting to get interested in this now. That's not my favorite movie based on the work of Ira Levin.

Have you done Rosemary's Baby already? Not yet. All right. That one does not have a young Steve Guttenberg, though. That's true. You know, now you're starting to see. You tried to sweeten me up with the hobo talk. But now I'm starting to see your side of you.

Don't you want to hear what your dad has to say? I mean, this guy is bringing some really serious, marginal Steve Guttenberg vehicles into your life of a guy. This is stuff that you could use as a teenager to make snarky pop culture comments on the internet and so on. Isn't that useful to you? Not as useful as getting my homework done or other things, I feel. Let me speak to your father for a moment.

Sir, your daughter keeps talking about wanting to do her homework. She's an excellent student. Okay, now is this, you have to let me know, sir, because I don't want to be accusing your daughter of lying to a judge who is not legally empowered in any way, but is yet a judge all the same. Is she telling the truth about wanting to do her homework all the time? That's crazy. Doesn't she want to go out and hang out with the kids? She does. And she has an active social life, but she's very conscientious,

and without a lot of pushing or reminding from her parents, she's really self-motivated to do her schoolwork. How do you respond to this accusation that you were keeping her from doing her homework? Well, she may be stretching the truth a bit. I really don't recall a time where she said, I have homework to do, and I said, no, no, let's watch TV and they'll just get the zero. Oh, so she's a liar. Well, she may be exaggerating a bit. Abigail, what would you want the outcome of this to be? Let's say I were to rule in your favor.

You want me to emancipate you from your father cinematically and in all ways? Do you want to be able to leave the house? I feel that the most fair ruling could be maybe a number of movies that I should watch a month or a week. Because I do see the merit in these movies. And like I said, I do like some of them. It's just when there's too many, on my TiVo right now,

there's probably 10 movies that he wants me to watch. So I don't see watching 10 movies in the next two weeks to be a good use of my time. So maybe if I was required to watch one movie a month and then go from there. But one movie a month, that's – if you've got 10 movies stacked up, what are the 10 movies, sir? I'm not so sure I have 10. I know I taped Predator, which may not be of great cultural value, but it sure is a fun movie. And that and Boys from Brazil. I don't know what else really we have coming up.

Could we just pause for a moment and get the list of all the movies that are coming up? Yeah. Bailiff Jesse, you just hang out for a sec, won't you? That's the Jackson 5, isn't it? Yeah, that's pretty much the best song ever, right? Like, there's no disagreement on that issue? It's pretty irresistible. God, what a good song.

You're kind of a pop culture historian, aren't you, Rabbi? I remember things, but I don't know if I'm a historian. Still waiting on that list. Take your time. That's good. Hang on. You wouldn't think it would take that long to click the TiVo button. Maybe if she spent a little more time watching movies and a little less time doing homework,

she'd be better at operating that TiVo. Am I right, Rabbi? Yeah, sort of. You know, get that thumb a little more flexible. Get a little more nimble. Da-da-dum, da-da-da-dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum. You can call me Mike, by the way. That's just fun to say, Rabbi.

It's kind of fun to be one. Did you guys see that Neil Gaiman referred to your podcast? Yeah, we saw that. That was exciting. I once said Neil Gaiman a correction about podcast? Yeah, we saw that. That was exciting. I once said Neil Gaiman a correction about the golem in American Gods. I'm sorry. That takes some giant clay balls, if I dare say. He was appreciative.

Okay, good. All right. I'm back. All right. We're back. What's coming up? I have nine movies. It's not ten. It's nine.

Okay. What's coming up? I have nine movies. So it's not 10, it's nine. Okay. And the shortest of which is an hour and 45 minutes. And the longest is two hours and 36 minutes. That better be the fifth element.

Director's cut. There is Boys from Brazil. Uh-huh. Taxi Driver. Taxi Driver. Chinatown. Right. I'm not sure how to say this.

Rashomon? I don't Rashomon Yes you said it exactly right Although Whoever you ask Whoever Oh You

You know what Bailiff Jesse Sometimes you gotta let the judge Make the joke It depends on who you ask Go on Avigal Okay Payback

The Mel Gibson movie Yeah That's interesting Okay I don't know about Avigal I don't know that you're Mel Gibson movie? Yeah. That's interesting. Okay. I don't know about Avigal. I don't know that you're watching all these movies. I don't think you're watching Taxi Driver. Who put Payback on there? Yeah. A controversial figure, that Mel Gibson, you know. I'm not sure if you're

aware of that, Rabbi. Celebrity anti-Semite, Mel Gibson. Made some fine, fine motion pictures. I know. It's hard, though, isn't it? Because I saw, I was watching Ransom the other night and I'm like, whatever happened to that guy? He was good. Oh, that's right. That's Mel Gibson. He has a deep and abiding hatred for my people, but I sure loves me my brave heart. Okay. Your father or whatever mystery person is putting

these movies on the TiVo has a pretty wide ranging taste. Let me ask you a couple of questions before I make my final decision, just to make sure that I agree with the quality of the film education that you are getting. I'm going to read you some movies, and you tell me if your father has made you watch them. Okay. Raid is a Lost Ark. Yes.

Empire Strikes Back. Yes. I don't know if I would say he made, he definitely showed it to me. Okay. THX 1138. No. The Third Man. No.

BBC's Sherlock. No. The Muppet Movie. Yes. But again, he exposed it to me. Okay. Miller's Crossing. No.

Fargo. No. A Serious Man. No. Really? Godfather. Yes. I am ashamed to say that I fell asleep.

Groundhog Day? Yes. Time Bandits? No. Grey Gardens? No. Richard Pryor live on the Sunset Strip? No.

I Like Killing Flies? No. All of Battlestar Galactica? No. Not seen any of Battlestar Galactica. Wow. Whoa. Oh, no.

My wife and I are only up to season two. Okay. Well, it's kind of a mixed bag there, sir, I dare say. If I rule in your favor, Avigal, you would like to reduce mandatory screening time with your father to once per month? Well, I just, you know, pulled that number arbitrarily, but definitely reduce. All right, I think I have all the information I need. I'm going to go into my chambers, and I think I'm going to watch the ninth director's cut of Blade Runner,

and then I'll get right back to you. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Rabbi Michael, I have a quick question for you. I heard a lot of movies there, but I did not hear either Pootie Tang or Babe Pig in the city. And that seems kind of weird to me. Well, I do try to avoid things with either the word pootie or tang. So putting them together made it really difficult to choose. Abigail, how does it make you feel when you've got a great opportunity to hit the orange Julius at the mall food court and friends, which is what I presume teenagers do with each other. Exactly what we do.

And your father says that you have to learn about the unreliable narrator by watching Rashomon. I feel that he is restricting me and you know taking the little free time i have to to use it to towards this film education course and i i think that if if i want to watch it of you know he he can suggest movies to me and then if i say can we watch it like, you know, he, he can suggest movies to me. And then if I say, can we watch it? Like that would be fine, but I feel a little restricted when it prevents me from doing other things. Michael, Tommy Lasorda once said that managing a baseball team is like holding a dove too loose and it flies away too tight and you kill it are you killing your daughter

it's hard for me to say this isn't the first time tommy was sort of made me cry but i'm getting a little choked up please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the court you may be seated you know one of the reasons I asked about the movie The Third Man, which if I remember, Abigail, you have not seen, is that correct? That's correct. All right. One of the reasons I asked about this movie is that you have to see it as soon as possible because it is the best movie. It is. Okay.

It's probably my favorite movie and therefore, by definition, the best. We all feel that way about movies that we love a lot. And yet, I have never been able to share this movie with the person who is closest to me, my wife, because I tried to force her to watch it. Probably 30 times, including on our first date 25 years ago. And as a result, there is this great gulf between us because she has never heard Orson Welles'

amazing, apocryphally improvised monologue on the cuckoo clock. And if that's intriguing to you, go and watch the movie because I'm not going to be able to remember it well enough to say. Oh, that's intriguing to you, go and watch the movie. Because I'm not going to be able to remember it well enough to say. Oh, it's better than Citizen Kane. Whoa, no, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now, easily, let's turn to you now, Rabbi Dad. Easily,

you and I could sit around jawboning about movies and the Jackson 5 and Neil Gaiman and Golems and so forth all day long, right? You and I, we're old people. This is what we want to talk about. But kids don't want to talk about this stuff. Don't start saying crazy things like better than Citizen Kane when you're obviously wrong. It's a great movie, but that's a bigger achievement, just not one that I happen to like as much. Do you understand? But that's a better, that's a bigger achievement, just not one that I happen to like as much. Do you understand? Now, the point I'm trying to make here that I'm trying to illustrate here is that you are running the risk by trying to force these movies onto your daughter of making her hate these movies. Do you understand? And that's a real risk. Now, as a parent, and indeed as a rabbi, as a community leader, as a teacher, you have not only the opportunity, but indeed the responsibility to shape the taste of those in your flock, including your own daughter.

And indeed, I work hard to make sure that my children are exposed to good music and good things that I like so that they know what I like and they can develop a sense of taste on their own. My children are young, you see. This is the perfect time. They're nine and five years old. This is the perfect time for me to be showing them Taxi Driver and The Godfather and Miller's Crossing and Grey Gardens. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because they have to like it. But when you have a teenager, now you're on the cusp.

You're on the cusp of rejection. If you've ever heard Patton Oswalt, the great comedian, talk about this, he has talked about the terrible risk of trying to be a cool father because whatever you try to program into your kids once they're teenagers, they are automatically going to reject that. And she is on the verge of doing this now. Peril lies ahead. If you want your daughter to like good movies, and you obviously do.

Now, daughter? Yes. I want to give you a word of warning. You've seen The Magnificent Seven, and you didn't like it. Is that correct? Yes. I want to give you a word of warning. You've seen The Magnificent Seven, and you didn't like it. Is that correct? Yes. I submit that that's probably because you haven't seen The Seven Samurai, which is a great movie, instead of the Western knockoff. But the sad case of Yul Brynner, who died due to lung cancer before his time, knowing that he was dying, without anyone even knowing his religion ever anywhere in the world, should remind you that you are getting older, and soon you will be moving

out, and soon you will not have your dad there to force movies upon you. You cannot throw away his attention, because in future, you will be sitting around going, what am I going to watch? What am I going to do with my time? I wish my dad were around. Avigael is right. You should not be forcing too many movies onto her. She obviously needs time to stretch her wings and listen to Justin Bieber and hang out with

her friends and do her homework, so to speak. I think that twice a month, it is reasonable. The problem here is that she perceives that you're forcing movies onto her much more often than you perceive that you are forcing them onto her. You set a schedule every other Sunday per month. And Abigail, I'm sorry, but you have no choice in the matter. You got to watch what he's going to show you because that's how you learn. That's how you learn what things are good or bad.

You can't have him just showing you movies that you already like. Then you just become a nerd on the Internet, only watching the same things that you like all the time. And Rabbi Dad, Mike, if I may, don't be too pushy, okay? Okay. Twice a month is plenty. Just make sure that you get really long movies. That is my ruling. This is the sound of a gavel. Just make sure that you get really long movies. That is my ruling.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Rabbi Michael, I don't know who makes the playlists. I've got to figure it's one of your employees. Do you think you could suggest to him or her Babe, Pig in the City? It's even better than the original Babe.

I can definitely look for it. I'm going to append my sentence. Get out a pen and paper because you've got to take these down, guys. I've got to punish both of you because you're both right but you're both wrong so you're both going to get punished

and rewarded. Week one is going to be Babe. Week two is going to be the third man. Week three is going to be Babe Pig in the City, because you can't see Babe Pig in the City without seeing Babe, right, Jesse? That's fair. All right.

Then where do we go from there? You should probably also take the opportunity to see the other great masterwork of the director of Babe, Pig in the City, Mad Max, The Road Warrior. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. That's one that's going to prepare you for the coming global superpocalypse. And then it's going to be Miller's Crossing, then Grey Gardens, then we can get back into yours. Jesse, unless you have another. If it was me, I'd just circle back to Babe Pig in the City.

You'd get a lot out of multiple viewings. We may have to revise this list. But the important thing is that because you are both wrong and because you are both right and because I want this experiment to last and because I want this sentence and judgment to have some overarching conclusion, I sentence you both to watch The Third Man this Sunday, no questions asked. This again is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. After all, it's not that awful. What the fella said. In Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed,

but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.