Judge John Hodgman - Pecks and Balances

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

Erich brings the case against his wife, Allison. When they first started dating, they had a tradition called the "safety kiss." If they were driving anywhere, they would check their seatbelts, secure the dogs, and then kiss each other for safety. They are now expecting their first child. Erich wants to reinstitute the Safety Kiss tradition. But Allison is opposed! She doesn’t want to teach her child to be fearful and superstitious. Also: when she kisses Erich, she burps. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Thanks to reddit user u/fille_philadelphie for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! ---Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes and more. Memberships start at just $5 a month. Just tap here!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgeman podcast. I'm bail of Jesse Thorne. This week, pecks and balances. Eric brings the case against his wife, Allison. When they first started dating, they had a tradition called the safety kiss. If they were driving anywhere, they would check their seatbelts, secure their dogs, then kiss each other for safety. They are now expecting their first child. Eric wants to reinstitute the safety kiss. tradition, but Allison is opposed. She doesn't want to teach her child to be fearful and superstitious. Also, when she kisses Eric, she burbs. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. The simple truth is, not all of us become the men we once hoped we might be, but we are all God or whatever's creatures. If there are those among us who thought ill of Judge John Hodgman or spoke

ill of him or failed him in some respect of fellowship, then we ask for your forgiveness, Lord, or whatever, and we ask for his. Baylor of Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Eric Allison, please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever? I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that out of what I can only assume is a contempt for the very idea of my safety, he's never kissed me once. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Jesse Thorne, I have kissed you mentally. Thank you. Using mental powers. I've gone safety first, Jesse. Safety first. On the astral plane? Yeah, every night before I go to bed. I'm trapped by this ritual, honestly imprisoned by it.

Eric and Allison, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom to hear this case pecks and balances? I realized it's pecks as in kissing. Not pecks as in pectoral muscles. So I'm going to reserve the right to keep pecks and balances spelled differently for a future case involving deadlifts. Yeah, I was thinking maybe our friend Stuart Wellington from the flop house. But in the meantime, we're here pecks and the same time, we're here pecks and the, balances. Eric, Allison, can either of you name the piece of reference that I cultured. Sure, we'll say that as I, as I courtroom the

delicious yogurt of culture. Can either of you name the piece of culture I reference as I entered the courtroom? Allison, no time for thought. What's your guess? The novel of mice and men. The novel of mice and men by John Steinbeck. That's one. Interesting. Why? Because of a superstitious thing in that book? Just, you know, things go unplanned. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Be careful when you're hugging animals. Okay.

Eric, you and Allison are married, right? Yes. You've known each other for a while, right? Yep. She just loved Johnny Steinbeck or what? Oh, yeah, frequently. Oh, okay, cool. I love it.

I've never read a John Steinbeck. Should I read one, Allison? I'm reading for fun now. I mean, they're nice and short, so you have to read one for like a book report. I didn't know that. I thought they were along, but good. Good to know. Short.

All right, Eric, did you have a guest prepared? I do, yeah. It's not right, but men without hats, safety dance. Men without hats, safety dance. Yeah, it's probably like in the extended version. There's a breakdown scene. Yeah. In which what happens exactly?

When they... The men without hats are a breakdown? No, yeah, they have a breakdown. No, like they deliver the speech that you, the reference. Yeah, on the 12-inch, on the disco mix, John. Yeah, great. Safe, safe, safe. Safe, safe, dance, dance, dance, dance.

Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Am I going to get in trouble with ASCAP for doing that, Jesse? Yeah, you just blew our budget for the year. Well, well, there you go. Jesse Thorne, do you have a guess? No, I have no guess. This one's right up your alley, or shall I say, on your high seas. Is this from Master and Commander?

Yes. Because you just did Master and Commander. This is the greatest insult to me. I'll tell you why this is an insult. Yeah. Griffin Newman. Griffin Newman, co-host of Blank Check Podcast. I know and has been a guest on my podcast, Jordan Jesse Go.

He's a very nice man. Yeah, yeah. And his co-host, what's his name, who I have not met? David Sims. Had our friend Travis McElroy on their show, Blank Check, their film discussion podcast, Blank Check. To talk about Babe Pig in the City. A movie for which I am such a famous admirer, or of which I am such a famous admirer,

or of which I am such a famous admirer that I am featured on its Wikipedia page. Yeah, and that's hard. That doesn't happen automatically. John, I wrote an essay about Big in the City that made dozens of people cry before my very eyes when I performed it live. Yeah.

If there's any other film with which I'm associated, it's Master and Commander Far Side of the World, for which I've been an advocate for literal decades. Sure. I said I. They invited Travis on their show to talk about Babe Big in the City, and they invited you on their show to talk about Master and Commander Far Side of the World. Yeah, that's right.

They're about to do an episode, I'm sure, about Pee We's Big Adventure with, you know, Jordan Morris or Dave Shumka or something like that. You know what? The far side of the world does not revolve around you, Jesse. I'm sorry to say. You had a British comedian Humphrey Carr on that guy. Definitely is more obsessed with Master and Commander than. me he knows all the knots. He knows all the knots. I love Master and Commander too. So does Eric,

by the way. Allison, you ever see Master and Commander Far Side of the World? Can't say I have. No, it's a rule. It's truly a dad or dad-to-be movie for sure. Yeah, Allison, you'll be a dad soon and you'll have to watch. All I did, Jesse, was all I did was text those two guys. I'm loving the Peter Weir series, the director Peter Weir that they've been covering on Blank Check. By the time this comes out, it'll be over, but it's all there on Blank Check for you to listen to. So I can't wait. for here about Master and Commander, knowing that it's one of David's favorite movies. And I was very surprised to be asked. At that moment to join, I felt like a real insinuator. But it was a delight to talk about it. And you know what, Jesse, I felt bad. I felt bad because I know you love that movie too.

That's why I sent you so many psychic kisses the night that I, before I recorded. They're good guys and good podcasters. Yeah. So I was quoting, I was quoting from Russell Crow playing Captain Jack Aubrey, eulogizing midshipman, Hallam, one of the junior officers, who comes to an ill end. And I won't spoil it for you, but I mean, he's not alive. That's why he's being eulogized. And it is predicated by the fact that he gains a reputation on the ship for being a Jonah. Now, there are many nautical superstitions.

Don't whistle on a boat or you'll whistle down the wind. The wind will come. No bananas on a boat. I guess unless you're a banana boat which I mean I don't think about how you're going to get past that one Don't mention Porkine animals on a boat for example

Those are all some superstitions Don't kill an albatross You see an albatross great kill one bad And then sometimes someone will be become known as a Jonah who is a person who brings bad luck To the sailing voyage and Hallam becomes a Jonah

and it's a sad situation but it's about superstitions and about the trouble they can cause even when they involve kissing that's how I'm going to refer as kissing from now on Eric and Allison you're already seated

who seeks justice in this courtroom is you Eric? I do, Your Honor. Now one thing that came up you've seen Mastering Commander and I mentioned that's a movie for dads or dads adds to be. Yes. And you are one. You and Allison are parents to be. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks. Now, when is this coming out here? It's coming out a little later this month. So your your child is due sometime in the future and I wish you the best of luck. I'm going to give you the

advice that was given to us by the nurse who handed us our first child who was then and is now a whole human baby in our own right, saying, enjoy your baby. And that's, it was something that my wife, whole human being and I have said back and forth to each other all the time. It's a powerful thing. Enjoy your baby. They're not babies for long. I will. Thank you. Now, if you had planned it better, right, your baby might be born in two days, which is my birthday. Oh, happy birthday, Your Honor. Well, it's not here yet. I think it's going to happen. All right, Eric, What is the justice that you seek as you think ahead to this child? This is a child rearing issue here.

Yes, Your Honor. I want to reinstitute the safety kiss, which was a thing that we did when we first started dating, kind of spontaneously. I think I was the one who started it, though, where when we got ready to go somewhere in our car, after everybody had buckled up and gotten set, I would say, okay, safety kiss, and then we'd go. Now, Allison, you two live in Washington State. in the Puget, not in Puget Sound, because you're not living underwater, are you? No, it's technically the sailish sea. Yeah. You ever been to Port Townsend?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did a show up there once. Nice. That's fine. The second wooden boat building capital of the world. Yeah, it's one of the best blimp towns in America. Best Blimp Towns in America. After Akron, come on.

It was, we went on a couple of different trips. There was sort of our last trip before the baby arrives in Port Townsend was one of them. It's a wonderful place to go. And when you got in the car, I presume, or ferry or whatever, the safety kiss is no longer part of the routine. Is that right, Allison? It hasn't been for some time. What is the time that is some? Probably two and a half years or so.

All right. We'll talk about how the magic has died in your marriage in a moment. But first, you are parents to be, Allison, but you are currently both fur and feather parents. Are you not? Oh, yeah. What is the situation? What is your pet portfolio involved? We have two dogs, three cats, seven chickens, and four ducks.

Sounds like Eric is coaching you. Sorry. Oh, oh, stop. I just want to know, are you answering these questions under duress? Your Honor, the numbers change, unfortunately, as part of what happens when you've got this many pets. I hope and know that you sent in some evidence of all of these animals. Let's take a look at that now, please. Whoa.

What's his duck doing? Wait, is the dog wearing a wig? And then the duck is like, why is the dog wearing a wig? But nobody is saying, duck, why are you in a house? Yeah, no one is saying, except for you and me, Jesse, duck, why are you in that? I said, you know, when I heard that you had all these ducks and geese and chickens better scurry when they, I'd take you out in the Surrey situation up there, I thought maybe you had them in a pen or in a run or outdoors somewhere, but this is a duck on the bed. Who is this duck and who's this dog? They do have a run and a pen outside, but we let them out to explore.

And Buttercup loves to come in the house. and she's very, very smart for a duck. She thinks she's people. Yeah, she's not afraid of us or the dogs at all. And she somehow knows that she's not supposed to poop in the house. Not supposed to. So you're saying that you can intuit that when she does poop in the house, it's either a shameful moment or an act of defiance.

Oh, yeah. It's when we forget to let her back out or, yeah. They use it to scold us. Yeah. Yeah. So that's buttercup on the bed. You don't even have, you don't even bother name the dog. That's Homer, and he's sporting his Rick James haircut that we asked for.

Okay. Let's see, let's see some more pictures. All right, here's Homer again with whom. Wait, that's not a wig? That's just his hair. That's just how he is. Holy moly. I truly believed him to be wearing a wig.

Got some real He's got a real perm. I mean, you could say Rick James, I would say DJ Quick, maybe. It also looks a little bit like Umatharman and Pope fiction. It's true. These are some handsome animals.

And if you're not watching on the YouTube, for heaven's sakes, go over there at some point and subscribe, won't you? It's really helpful to the show. And also, you get to see whole video episodes, including the lovely faces of our litigants today. Well, thank you for sharing all of those animals. but now let's get back to the reason that we're here.

Allison, the safety peck stopped being a thing two and a half years ago. Yep. Allison, why did you decide at that point that you hated kissing your husband? Well, I'm not a very superstitious person. And we ride in the car. I would say we would have to do it twice a day on average because you'd, You know, drive someplace. You drive back. And, well, it seemed very perfunctory. And, you know, I'm, this is not a case about me not wanting to kiss Eric. He is a surprise. You like your husband. Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah. He's surprisingly good smelling.

You don't. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not there in Seattle to smell you, Eric. Yeah, I'd like to take a whiff of that. But it's, you know, to do it on command and this kind of. of cursory pro forma manner, just got a little old after the several hundredth time. How did this start in your life, Allison? Was there a time that you were cool with it? Oh, yeah. We introduced it. How did it start?

Well, he just leaned over one day and said safety kiss. And then we did. And we did that for a couple years, at least, yeah. I cannot stop singing to myself, safe, safe, safe, safe, safety, teeth, teeth. Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss. Now it's in my head. Eric, was this something that happened in your family's life or something you learned somewhere or that you made up? I made it up.

It was improvisation. Yeah, improvisationally and fully formed as an idea of this will be a tradition, like right away in my head. When was this in your courting ritual? This was probably like late 2021. So it was maybe like a year we started dating at the beginning of 2021. You started dating at the beginning of 2020. You were dating at this point. Yeah.

So it was early on, and Allison, this was not an immediate turnoff to you. Oh, no. It comes up with improvisational stuff all the time that I laugh at and support. Thanks. Is Eric a superstitious person? Only about, only about, like, one thing, you know, all the time, which is knock on wood. I'm serious about that one. Yeah.

I don't know why. These things get into your head. You have thrown salt over your shoulder? I have. Yeah. That one's fun. Yep. So obviously it did not doom.

The safety kiss worked for in one regard, Allison, which is it did not doom your marriage or your courtship. But then after a while, what did you do? Did you just say, I don't want this anymore? I just said, do we have to do this every time? And what did Eric say? I guess not. Yeah. For my part, I just, I don't remember when we stopped. It just kind of fizzled out.

Yeah. So you don't remember like a sit down. It's like, I don't want to do this anymore. And you don't, do you have, did you have any feelings about it when it stopped happening? Not me. No, I, like, I just, I just one day realized, oh, it's been a while since we've done that kind of thing. But maybe you remember differently. I felt pretty good when we stopped doing it.

just the act of leaning over and up a little bit, and suppressing the need to burp in that moment makes me have to burp, whether it's subconscious or... Yeah, I'd like to get into this piece of the evidence. It says here that one of the reasons you don't want to do this ritual anymore or again is that kissing Eric makes you burp. Tell me more about that. I don't have an explanation.

for it, but it's a phenomenon that happens nearly every time he asks for a kiss. Yep. Yeah. What kind of burp are we talking about? Is it a loud belch or just a little br-drub? Just a little, yeah. And have you guys, and Eric, how does it make you feel when Allison burps when you want to kiss her? You know, over time it's become comforting.

I think it's her body getting excited and she just tenses up a little bit, squeeze it up. Yeah, normally peristaltic regurgitation is an expression of excitement. Unconscious muscle spasms. So, Eric, what is the kiss keeping you safe from? Oh, so this is kind of, for me, it's, I mean, I will admit that I have these superstitions and I can be a superstitious person, and there probably is a component of that. But for me, it's much more about the checklist. It's the final part of a safety checklist that we follow. So what else is on the checklist?

Making sure everybody's buckled in. Right. Sure there's no ducks or chickens under the car. Making sure that we've decided where we're going. Because if I don't know that ahead of time, I will just default into driving towards Scott's Dairy Freeze in North Bend. Okay. And that's our running joke.

I just start taking random turns. And I'm sure that that's where I would end up. Got it. Yeah. Also walking around the car backwards five times. Getting dressed and undressed three times. And then tuning the radio 15 times, right? Right, yeah.

And then, of course, when the baby comes, making sure the baby's buckled in and seatbelts. You don't need to worry about that. Enjoy your baby. That's what I say. Making sure the baby's not under the car. Yeah, yeah. I feel like you could check five times

to make sure there are no ducks under that car and now we know that buttercup's going to get under there anyway. It is our constant fear. So the kiss stopped happening after a while. Eric seems to say that he doesn't remember when it happened. Or stopped happening, I should say. Alison, do you remember the day that you decided, no? I don't remember the exact date, but it was sunny out.

It was a good day. Yeah. Are you expecting us to do one of those things like the guy on the internet who figured out what the Ice Cube song, what day the Ice Cube song was about. He's like, well, the Lakers beat the Supersonics on these dates. Oh, really? Oh, really? You tracked it all the way back to a calendar date?

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good day. And so after the safety kiss tradition ended, how many perilous car wrecks have you gotten into Eric? None, Your Honor. I'm glad to hear that. And do you always drive, or Allison, do you drive to? Eric does most of the driving when we're in the car together,

just because he likes it. And I don't like driving so much, yeah. Allison, do you have any superstitions? No. When I was a kid, I had very magical thinking. Like, I thought a portrait of my grandfather was watching me and that the taxi dermied animals in my grandparents' house could come alive. But I, they never did. But I do. I think I believe in ghosts. Yeah. But you're not sure. Well, I'm pretty sure I saw a ghost once.

Go on. Oh, okay. I was in summer camp on Orchus Island, and I woke up in the night, and there was a ghost standing there over this girl's bunk. And I... No. Yes. He was wearing a robe and had...

nasty, gnarly hair and was glowing slightly. And I was able to move around, I remember, because I was hiding under the covers. And I told everyone in my cabin the next day at breakfast in a way that, like a 12-year-old just says, oh yeah, there was a ghost in the cabin last night. He was standing over your bunk bed. And the counselors got kind of upset. And I never told anyone for a couple years until I was in high school and my new best friend told me that she, a couple months earlier, had seen a ghost in her hallway. And she started describing that ghost. And it was just key for word per word, how I would have described him and long fingers, the gnarly hair, the robe. And she also said he was the most, the whitest looking person you've ever seen.

seen in your life. Wait, wearing a robe, you say? Yeah. You're not like the one I'm wearing right now? Yeah, John, have you been in any summer camps lately? No, but I've been asked for projecting a lot. I've been trying to get all the way to Orcas Island. I didn't know that it worked.

The whitest man she's ever seen. That's me. Check out my slender fingers. Each one is a little slenderman. Well, I don't know if ghosts count as magical things. thinking, that's the paranormal, more than magic. Magical thinking, I think, would be something like imagining that a movie like Master and Commander somehow belongs to you.

I love you, Jesse. Psychically. I'm not actually mad. No, no. But I felt bad. I felt bad for all the fans of Master and Commander. Especially those ones on the Reddit who pointed out that it's not a ship of the line. The HMS surprise is a frigate. Boy, was that mortifying. Yeah, that's a sound of, that's

a sound of a cannonball hitting my head. But you have no sort of these run of the mill. I mean, aside from imagining that your taxidermed animals in your, in your non-no's house or whatever was going to come to life. You don't talk, you don't, do you walk under ladders? Sure. Do you avoid stuff or anything like that? No, not really. I'm pretty void of superstitions. Right. because you've seen the other side and you know. You know what's real and what's not real. And the safety kiss is not real, correct?

Right. Correct. Eric, was it ever real? Oh, how real. I mean, the brain is capable of making things real. I think it was real for me. But I mean to say, like, it's a fun, it's a fun little tradition for dating and marriage, I suppose. But you never really believed that something bad was going to happen if you didn't get this kiss online.

right? No, no, not at all. I'm leading, I'm leading the witness here. Did you? So I did, I think that it's truthful to say that if we something bad had happened while we're driving or something does and we hadn't done a safety kiss, there would be a part

of my brain that's like, we missed the safety kiss. Yeah, but you didn't even notice when the safety kiss stopped happening so it wasn't, it wasn't as though like, oh, this kiss didn't happen and I got to just pretend that I'm a rational person, so I'm going to white knuckle this this car ride without the kiss.

You didn't even notice it happened. It was fine. Yes. I mean, again, for me, it's not... I'm going off of your own testimony here, sir. Yes, sir. Allison remembers the day of the first no-kiss day as being the most beautiful sunny day of all time. You don't even remember what the weather was, sir.

For me, it was Tuesday. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. No, it really is. It's about like the safety checklist. It's the final punctuation mark on a checklist that, that lets me know that we've done the right thing. Yeah, but do you understand what I'm getting at here?

Is it a funsy thing? I mean, obviously, buckling your seatbelts is not for fun. That's an important part of the checklist. This is a funsy thing. Or is it a, like, I've been missing it ever since it stopped happening, and I'm terrified now that I'm about to become a father, that the whole world is going to fall apart. Because, by the way, the whole world is falling apart.

I need to get this kiss back in my life to get things back on course. Yeah, yeah, that resonates. It is about for me refocusing on the idea of safety and kind of like making sure that we're doing the right things for the baby and and each other. And so it feels to me like part of a complete breakfast of safety. John, I know you have kids, but the thing about babies is it's warm underneath the car. Right. And they find that comforting. That's right.

Has the rest of the safety checklist gone away? Once the safety kiss went away, you no longer check if you've bucked. your seatbelts or know where you're going or anything? I think yes. Yeah. I mean, it's not gone entirely away, but it is less prominent than it once was.

Allison, is this so? I mean, I'm not always aware of what's going on as much as Eric is. He's all about... I'm the safety officer in our relationship, yeah. Allison has chosen that passenger life. In fact, Your Honor,

there's some stuff I want to bring up about safety. think is important context. I will not allow it. No, I change my mind. I will allow it. So, yeah. Can I tell the story about the ashes? Sure.

So when we first started dating, Allison has a beautiful cast iron wood burning stove in our house. And a wonderful thing while we're first starting to have romantic evenings in front of it as we burned some wood. And then one morning I woke up and I found out that the ashes were in a paper bag next to the stove and they were like orange or actually was it you who discovered them yeah they were they had spontaneously ignited and so it was like a giant brick of ashes that was completely molten in the inside but somehow hadn't burnt through the outside of the paper bag at all yet but there

was a slight odor in the air yeah so i i um i went and purchased a steel closable drum for the ashes now who put the ashes in the bag uh i did i say you almost burned your house down. It came pretty close, yeah. Oh, oh. If only you had kissed Eric before bed, that never would have happened. Yeah, it might have prevented some things, yeah. Is the point of this story to suggest that Allison doesn't understand safety, Eric?

No, not that she doesn't understand it, but that it is sometimes my role to make sure that we've dotted all the eyes and crossed all the teas of safety things. He said I was Mr. McGuing my way through life. Wow. I presume that was part of your vows. We joked about that, actually. In what other ways, Eric, does Allison Mr. Magoo her way through life? Oh, so there was a chicken, what do you call a hatching hutch

that has like a infrared heat lamp? Yeah, the infrared light had burned a circular hole through the top of the hutch one morning. And so we moved. all of that outside and changed the whole setup to be a lot more safe after that. You had the chicken hatch inside your house. Well, in like an out part of it. Like a mud room.

Yeah. No, Jesse, you have to understand. These are coastal fugit sound. They have mudrooms. I don't know. I don't know about this lifestyle. They have land and outbuildings and mudrooms. And if it weren't for the moist climate of the Pacific Northwest, I think you all would have a,

ashes for a house at this point. Have you ever looked over and noticed that Allison is setting her seatbelt on fire? I wonder. There was a mirror in the car the other day that I was a little bit worried would focus light onto the seatbelt. But other than that. Like one of those shiny apartment buildings that lights the building across the street on fire. Exactly. Allison's over there with a magnifying glass trying to set an ant on fire.

in her lap. Yep. Allison, is Eric an anxious person? No, he's very calm and, yeah, it doesn't get upset at things that I will do a double take or screaming triple take at even. He, yeah, I think he's going to be a great dad for that reason. Yeah, no, he's pretty chill. So seatbelts are on the checklist, Eric, obviously.

And this is a mental checklist or a written checklist? This will probably be a mental checklist, but I do keep written checklists. I'm a very checklist for a checklisty kind of person. What other kind of checklist do you keep? Like everything. I go through like 100 checklists a day, actually. I've got like an app that I'm constantly. What's on your app?

Bring it out. Oh, no. This is going to be embarrassing because we've got the baby coming. So it's full of things that are like, do this now. Yep. This says learn about four skins. Well, the second one on list is read pregnancy books until the pregnancy is done. And I haven't done that in a couple of days.

And how often are you reading pregnancy books and you close it for a saying and you call across the house, honey, is the pregnancy done? That's about right. Yeah. So you got to do lists for the baby coming up. Yep. What do you got? What do you, what do you, obviously top of list is reinstitute safety kissing.

Yep. Yep, that's one of them. We have, I need to rip out the sill around the nurseries window and, and rebuild that because there's some gaps and some water comes through when it rains. Yeah, you can't do that. Nope. Are you going to paint, are you going to paint the nursery while watching, having Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest on in the background? Because I highly recommend it on my great memories. We just did that.

And Allison's in charge of color. And she did a really good job. She picked some good ones. of you didn't have North by Northwest on in the background, Allison? No, not this time, yeah. Do it again. Like your family is doomed. Okay.

Oh, yeah. Okay. So again, back to the checklist. If I were to order in your favor and you're going to write it down. Yeah. Everyone checks their seatbelts. Then you decide where you're going to go. Then you check under the, or at some point you check under the car for animals.

Anything else? We've got two dogs. So we'll make sure that dogs. are in their crate or we still have to figure out where the dogs are going to go once the car seats in. The answer is nowhere, sir. The dogs stay home from now on. Okay.

No, the dogs, you have a, you, would you have a, I presume you have a Subaru, right? Almost. A Rav four. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. And so you have a couple of crates for your dogs in there. And then you put your baby crate in there, add a banana and off you go.

Yes. Right. So check to make sure the dogs are secure. Yep. Anything else? If it's a long trip, do we have water and snacks? Right, right. What about oil pressure, tire pressure?

I mean, oil, you know, like any car stuff you need to take care of? I have a maintenance log in my app, so hopefully those things will be taken care of. Right, check the maintenance log. Yeah. Make sure there's no warning lights. Are you cool with all of this so far, Allison? Yeah, I mean, even Hans and Nguyen. Chewy had a checklist on Millennium Falcon.

Thanks. You know, doctors. It makes sense, yeah. Did you just say Han Solo, Hans? Hans. I'm not a big Star Wars person. Okay, I love her anyway. I'm sorry.

I have to go outside, turn around three times, spit and curse, and then come back to clear that. To clear that horrible superstition. Hansola. Stop saying it. Never tell me so odds. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to put you on blast for saying Hans. But yes, Hans and Chewy had a checklist for sure.

And it's just the kiss. Now, one of the things that you told Jennifer Marmer, our producer, before coming to the podcast, before coming to the fake courtroom, is that you don't want to teach your baby about two things. One, superstition, or train them to feel it something bad's going to happen if a kiss doesn't happen. and two perfunctory kisses. Explain what you dislike about these two things and why it's important to train your baby differently.

The implication is that if we don't perform this ritual for this superstition that Eric and I made up, something terrible could happen in the car. And, you know, fear of death, dying. I just don't want a kid who, has magical thinking like I did to feel scared that if we didn't do something, then. So is this because you felt scared as a kid? I guess I was pretty nervous as a child that, yeah, things could.

So it's interesting. I had asked you if you thought that Eric was an anxious person, but it sounds like you were a fairly anxious child. Yeah, yeah. My mom said I didn't want to be alone ever, yeah. Allison, you do kiss your husband when you want to. Sure, yeah. I think we have some evidence of that as well. Let's take a look at that. Hell yeah, let's go.

Oh, wow. Allison has provided a montage of some very adorable moments of pre-kissing, post-kissing and in the midst of kissing. In many different wonderful sites, you guys seem to travel around even. We live in a beautiful state. But you don't like kissing just, you call it, perfunctory, obligatory kissing, ritualistic kissing. Tell me why. Well, it just seems like you put a coin in a machine, you get a kiss. And yeah, it just,

once you've done that a few hundred times. If only I had known. Yeah, it seems like a great machine. The best I've ever got is a gumball. Yeah, really. Does it feel phony to you? Yeah, it just seems a little like just there's no emotion involved. It's just, you know, lean over, smack lips. You're done.

If it were something other than kissing, like high-fiving, would you have an issue there? You know, I guess not so much, yeah. That's a less compelling metaphor. My sister's family has a tradition of Nucks, they call them. I feel like fist bumps is a symbol of emotional distinctions. Anytime someone fist bumps me, I feel like they're just like making sure that I know they're not attracted to me. Basically. I can tell you that when you fist bumped a two-year-old, you can know it comes from love.

All right. Well, there's that thing, Jesse, because when we, you know, when we go on tour sometimes, we take an airplane together, you try to kiss everyone on the airplane for safety. And then they're like, actually, a fist bump is fine. It's cool. It's fine. It's either that or I do the dance. There's not a lot of room in that. Yeah, I know. Of course.

And look, in some of those commuter planes, you can barely stand up. You're a tall fellow there. No, I mean, they try and tell you otherwise when they show you those little videos about the, you know, the slides and the air masks and everything. Right. That there's plenty of room for everybody to be doing a special dance. But it's just a lie they tell you. No, no. Only in Delta One are you allowed to do the special.

dance now. It's not fair. You've just reminded me that that's actually another superstition that I'm very, I think I've done this almost my whole life, is that anytime I get on a plane, I always knock on the hole as we go through the door. Yeah, I do that too. Yeah. Here's some of my superstitions, Eric. Tell me if you got any of these. Don't toast to water. Oh, I'm aware of that one, but I don't follow it. I don't say Macbeth in a theater. We were just talking about that, actually. I hope not in a theater. I did theater a little bit in high school, and I made that joke. I quoted McBeth in the theater, and the theater people did not enjoy that at all. No, no. You don't say McBeth in a theater. You don't say Mike Mitchell on a podcast. Do you know that, Jesse? No, I did not know that one.

Yeah, don't say Mike Mitchell on a podcast. You know Mike Mitchell's friend from high school, McDuff, right? Changton, Pikey Z-Man and McDuff. Allison, if I were to replace a safety kiss with a safety knuck or high-five, would that work for you or would it still be a symbol to your child that there is a magical ritual you must do or else the car is going to drive off a cliff? I think I'm fine with a fist bump, high-five, whatever. like touching, slapping to the back seat with the baby.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I just, I think that not calling it a safety kiss would be better. Maybe just, I love you, let's go. You know, I'm all for wanting. I love you. I don't believe in saying I love you unless you really mean it. Oh. No perfunctory I love you's.

Does the framing of this matter to you, Allison? Does it matter to you if this ritual or engagement or whatever it is is adding safety or preventing disaster? Yeah, I think that saying that it adds safety means that it prevents disaster. If we weren't to do it, that disaster is more likely to happen. Okay. So what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor, Allison? And nothing? Just say, yeah, yeah, nothing, yeah.

The official Ted Knight from Caddyshack ruling, you'll have nothing and like it. Exactly. And obviously, you want that kiss. Yes. You want me to force your wife to kiss you whenever you want. He's kind of a love hound. I like kisses. What can I say?

Are you a love hound, Eric? A little bit. All right, love hound, Mrs. Lovehound. I think I've heard everything to make my decision. I'm going to do my pre-going-to-chambers ritual. One, two, three, four, five. I'm going to consider my verdict. I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Allison, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now? I'm feeling pretty good. I'd love to hear the judge's argument that in this part of the world, in the state and age that I. must kiss a man. Oh, wow. Look, I understand.

Eric, now that you've been destroyed forever, how do you feel about your chances in the case? Oh, I just probably need to bury my head in the sand somewhere. Yeah. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case. Our thanks to everybody who came out to see us in Brookline, Massachusetts at the Coolidge Corner Theater,

and all the folks who got on that boat with us in Maine, not least the crew of that boat that we got on in Maine. What an incredible and wonderful adventure it was to get to do that activity with you, John, and with all our new friends. Thank you so much for joining us if you did on the Grace Bailey. And thanks to Mark Evan Jackson, Susanna, and Captain Sam and Fiji the cat for hosting us. Go check out sailgracebailey.com, and you can take an incredible journey by sale through the Penobscot Bay region of Maine, one of the most beautiful places in the world. Indeed, the Grace Bailey will be sailing in September. They get together with a bunch of the other ships, the Windjammer fleet that are these historic schooners that sail around that area,

and they all tie up together and they have what's called a gam. And in September, they're going to doing it and I'm going to be joining that gam for a hang. If you'd like to to join, go over to saylgrace bailey.com and find out when I'm going to be back on board or just take a cruise whenever you like. I also want to mention something else. Another entrepreneur in Maine is young, 13-year-old Lola Blake. A lot of people have complimented me over the past months about my hat here that says, why not, K-N-O-T. They're like, who made that? And I'm like, well, Lola Blake did in Maine. She makes all kinds of hats and shirts featuring disastrous nautical themes under the label Ship Happens. You should definitely go to my substack, hodgeman.substack.com, where I'm featuring a

catalog of all of her items or t-shirts and her hats, and you can order them directly there. Her contact information is there. Hodgman.substack.com or just email directly at Ship Happens, Brooklyn, at gmail.com. That's Brooklyn, B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N, not with a Y, but with an I as in Maine. Jesse, what's going on in your life? We've had some really incredible guests on my public radio show and podcast, Bullseye, that I would like to highlight because I think Judge John Hodgman listeners might enjoy listening to them. Just very recently, we had a pretty amazing interview with the rapper Juvenile, cash money, millionaire, juvenile, of back that thing up, fame, among other things.

Yeah, I remember that wonderful song. Back that thing up. Yeah. This is a radio edit. It was called Back That Thing Up, I think. Yeah. But Juvie the Great, one of the great rappers in New Orleans history and an amazing, vibrant, charming fellow. We had, speaking of hip-hop, a great, incredible interview with the Irish, mostly Irish language rap group, Neckap from Belfast, Northern Ireland.

They are incredible advocates for Irish cultural identity and incredible musicians as well who have really been through it lately. They were arrested after coming on stage in England not long ago. And I definitely recommend checking out that conversation. And next week on the program, John, and realistically, Judge John Hodgman listeners, this is what they want to hear on Bullseye with Jesse Thorne. The hosts of Taskmaster. Whoa. Yeah. We've been working on getting,

we've been working on getting these Taskmaster boys on Bullseye for months. It's finally happening next week. So go listen to the host of Taskmaster. Go make sure you're subscribed to Bullseye with Jesse Thorne, so you don't miss that conversation. And of course, it is dads and grad season still as well as summer wedding season. I hope that you will do your dads and grads and summer wedding shopping at put this on shop.com

at antique and vintage store. there is a treasure for everyone at Put This Onshop.com. All right, let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Eric and Allison, you may be seated. So, first of all, this is a little makeshift gavel that I'm going to use today. By little makeshift gavel, John, you mean standard gavel? Yes, well, because my huge gavel, as everyone knows, was confiscated by airport security in San Francisco.

Offerman Woodshop and I are, we finally got, have agreed. on the wood that's going to go into the new giant gavel. In the meantime, I'm choosing a book from my personal collection to throw at the winner of every case. In this case, it's a copy of A Purple Place for Dying by John D. McDonald. It is number something or other. Number six in the Travis McGee Mysteries. I got this one at the Big Chicken Barn in Maine. I have read it. I'm not going to read it in this edition again, so I'm going to throw it it to you. It's a wonderful series of crime novels starring Travis McGee who kisses a lot of people. And none of them are perfunctory.

Indeed, Travis McGee, now I think about it, has a very profound and sensitive ethos about when and when it is not appropriate to hug and kiss a person. And obviously, consent is a big part of that. It is a complicated issue. You know, there are our relationships in our marriages and our partnerships are full of all kinds of perfunctory gestures of love, you know, that are not necessarily toxic. I mean, you know, make it a point to always say, I love you before going to bed. Make it a point to not go to bed mad.

Make it a point to, you know, tell people that you care about them. And I guess there are definitely times when you just sort of kiss someone goodbye just to get it off the list, you know, just to remind yourself and your loved one, hey, I care about you. Not necessarily like I'm going to walk outside and hit by a boulder, but there is a little bit of that fatalism behind it. I understand your hesitation towards perfunctory shows of expressions of physical affection. I get it. But, you know, they're part of life, and they're not necessarily destructive or, as they say, toxic parts of life,

except in this case. Sorry to say, Eric. I was thinking a lot about superstition lately. It so happens that I was thinking about it a couple of nights ago. Because, you know, when my mom passed away 26 years ago, she died of cancer, and it was a sudden diagnosis and a fairly rapid progression. And it was totally through our lives upside down and reminded me that, the way I think we always have to remind ourselves from time to time that life is not exactly

dangerous because that's just a quick trip to phobia territory. But, you know, short and to be appreciated, you know, and that it can change very, very quickly. And that's part of the reason why we say in our family, I love you, because A, we mean it and B, we just want to make sure that that's expressed rather than not having it be expressed, you know? I don't know if kissing does the same, plays the same role in our family, because there isn't a lot of it. We mostly just write thoughtful letters to each other instead. A point I'm trying to make is that when my mom passed away, my mom was a lapsed Catholic to the point of pure atheism. And I was never raised religiously to the point of now very, very deep-seated, fatalistic agnostic agnostic.

I don't really, I wish I had seen a ghost at camp because then I might have some deep ingrained faith that there might be an afterlife. I don't really have a deep instinctive sense that there is. But both my mom and I, but first my mom, towards the end of her life, started saying the Lord's Prayer. Well, our father who art in heaven,

hell would be the name, et cetera, et cetera. We all know it, our God or whatever, right? And then after she passed away, I started saying it before going to bed. It doesn't a superstition, right? It was a ritual, a ritual. And it was a wholesome ritual. It was, you know, as Adam Savage has often said, he doesn't believe in God necessarily, but he does believe in prayer. This moment of checking in with oneself and with the universe and saying some words or just accepting some silence to acknowledge the shared experience we're all going through to try to connect with memories of people that we care about, are no longer there to try to meditatively take in the moments that are precious and fleeting around us as they happen, you know? And I believe in all of that stuff. But what started out as a very comforting ritual now 26 years ago is still a nighttime routine for me that unfortunately has

become a prison. Everything that I don't like about religion, which is this idea that if you, if you say the wrong thing about God or whatever, you're going to be punished and burned in hell. the fear of religion is, I think, just a method of profoundly gross social control. And frankly, a lot of it's a financial grift. Come at me, people of faith. I mean, I believe in faith. And I don't judge others, even in the role of Judge John Hodgman, for whatever their faith journeys are. But that kind of, that style of religion, if I don't do X, then something bad will happen.

I mean, I learned the hard way that something bad will happen no matter what, and you have nothing to do with it and it has nothing to do with how good a person you are or how many bad things you do. I mean, don't smoke cigarettes, but you know what I'm saying. That kind of fear-based life is not fun. It is not fun to live in. It is not fun to be in. And unless you are truly a kind of faith that it's like if you do everything right, you're going to be in some other. place after you pass away. It is a profound waste of your time in life. And I had to really decide, and this is coincidental, by the way, that I had to stop saying that prayer because it had become a

compulsion. And because it had built in a fear that if I didn't say it silently to myself, not just before I go to bed, but if I woke up in the middle of the night, which, by the way, I'm turning 55 in two days, I'm waking up in the middle of the night three times a night every night. having to say that over and over and over again, no longer as a testimony to my love for my mom or an attempt to remember her, but to stave off this feeling that something bad will happen if I don't say it, that's not how I want to live my life. It's not how I want to spend my nights.

So instead, of course, I recite Frank Herbert's the litany against fear. That's how you get away from fear. I do that now, ritualistically. Point is that the superstitions that I do have, not toasting with water, the dumb things, not saying Macbeth, not saying Mike Mitchell on a podcast, not, I mean, I stopped. I have, I want to you to know, I'm a brave person. I have stood in the bathroom when and watched that toilet flush all the way down. And I've not been possessed by the devil. Because I know that I still have that little twinge. And the little bit of happiness that I might get of getting out of the bathroom on time, the way you expressed, Eric, doesn't make up for the day over day, over day, like soul damage,

that feeling that the world is magical, and if you don't say or do a certain thing, it's all going to go sideways. It's just not how the world works. And I don't think you need to do that psychic damage to yourself, even if your kisses are like mine, psychic kisses. And I think entwining it with a kiss, I mean, you kiss your spouse,

then they go off to work or whatever. I guess there's some superstitious there, superstition there or whatever, but assigning it so one-to-one to a safety kiss and a kiss being something that's supposed to be an expression of communion and joy instead of warding off some evil spirit. I just don't, I don't know whether that baby is going to take that lesson from what you guys are doing if I were to rule in your favor, Eric. that baby's probably thinking about clouds. I don't know what that baby's going to think about. But I do think that, like, there is a, there's a significant difference even between a safety kiss and a safety high five. Even a safety high five, I feel it's a little celebratory gesture like,

come on, let's go. And in that spirit, a kiss is fine too. Come on, let's go. I love you. Here we go on our adventure. But if it's, I got to kiss you or else we're going to drive off a cliff or if I don't do this, You know, even a safety high five is less provocative and kind of problematic than the kiss, which is supposed to be, even when it is perfunctory, it's supposed to be joyful and hopeful, not fearful. So, yeah, no way you can do that safety kiss.

I'm sorry. Make your checklist. I mean, you've been doing it fine and you've lived without it for all this time. And obviously, if your spouse says, yeah, I don't want to kiss you under those circumstances. That tends to be when you listen. but and look, I know that you do. You brought it to us, you know, for fun to have this conversation. And I'm glad you did, right?

I mean, I know you don't want me to bang this gavel or throw this book at you and say, Alison, you must kiss your husband when he demands it. Obviously not. But I'm still grateful that you brought the conversation because it really made me think a lot about superstition. Again, and I think that it's valuable to talk about, you know, what kind of magical thinking do you want to have in your life? And how do you make that magical thinking, if it is, for example, faith? How do you make that life affirmative and not life punitive? So it's good that we talked about it.

But obviously, I'm ruling in Allison's favor. Allison, I'm going to be sending you this book A Purple Place for Dying. I'm going to be honest with you. It's not my favorite of the Travis McGee's, but they're all quite good. I think this one takes place in the West. This is the sound of a gavel. I'll throw this book at Eric. This is the sound of a little gavel.

It's not enough. We need a big one. We're going to get it. Thanks, Offerman Woodchop. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Well, Eric, I think we heard how you feel about this. Yeah, I mean, it's not exactly the ruling I wanted, but I think it's within the spirit and I'm happy. Allison, how are you feeling? Oh, feeling pretty good. Yeah. What are you imagining for your future in the car? Just, yeah, going through the safety protocol. and I might throw in and I love you before we drive off, yeah.

Oh. To everyone in the car. Eric Allison, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. Our thanks to Redator, Phile, Philadelphia, for naming this week's episode Pecks and Balances.

If you want to name a future episode, So join us on the Maximum Fun subreddit. That's our slash maximum fun. That's where we usually ask for your suggestions. And you can also see all of the dumb and wonderful suggestions of all of your fellow redditors there. You can also chat about the show on Reddit at R slash Maximum Fun. We're also on Instagram, on Blue Sky, and on other social media platforms.

Just search for Judge John Hodgman. Photos are posted on our Instagram account. That is Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We're also on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod. Follow and subscribe to see all kinds of Judge John Hodgman podcast. Content, including stuff from this episode today. Jesse Thorin, I'm here in New York City at Technica House where, Jacob, would you say that the city is in the grips of Nick's fever right now? Oh, yeah.

Nick's fever. basketball Knickerbockers fever. I don't know what's going to be happening when this episode comes out, but the Knicks are in the playoffs. The finals, right? The finals, the National Basketball Association Finals. Yeah.

And I got a question for you. Would you rather, if you were going to go sit courtside in a Knicks game, would you rather be a guest of Timothy Chalameh and Kylie Jenner or Tracy Morgan and Tina Fey? I think I probably know your answer, Jesse. Spike Lee. is my answer. Spike Lee is my answer. I interviewed him one time on Bullseye and he delivered such a delightful fire hose of Spike Lee. And I think it would be so fun to hear him try and have personal relationships with basketball players who are at the moment that he is trying to build his relationship with them playing in the NBA finals. Yeah. No, I mean, that would be amazing. But what I'm looking for is an either or, Jesse. There is no third option. Tracy Morgan and Tina.

Faye. It's Tracy Morgan and Tina Faye. Hey, everybody, whether it's sports or anything else, send me your either-or's. We want some either-or cases. Oh. One or the other. Would you rather type cases for an upcoming docket? Or maybe we'll find a way to build it into a real case. Send all of your cases into maximum fund.org slash JJHO.

Also, you can email me directly. At Hodgman, H-O-D-G-M-A-N at maximum fund.org. send us your either oars, your would you rather's, your best party stumpers. And maybe we'll take you to the Knicks game. That's not a fair offer and we're not going to. Jesse, we're interested in other cases too, right? No matter what your case is, we need it at maximum fun.org slash JJHO. I have been reading and enjoying, you know, your New York Times column net, columnlet.

What was it called? Columette? Columnilia? I don't know, a little tiny column. It's been featured more heavily in the Times Magazine online lately. Yes, that's true. And it has great illustrations now. And you have been writing like poll response choices for the cases.

I've really been getting a kick out of those and enjoying seeing what people's choices are amongst those poll response options. Yeah, like people will write in and say, like, my husband wants to kids. me before we go driving a car who's right and I'll be like well either a you're right and I'll say a thing or be your husband's right or c it's the children who are wrong or something like that that's how it works yeah it's a lot of fun and it reminded me look I went I went in the comments for one of those and somebody was like how do I submit a case we need cases of all kinds because sometimes they go in the column sometimes they go on stage sometimes they go here on the podcast sometimes they go in a docket Sometimes they go in a Membo mailbag.

Sometimes I drive slow. Sometimes I drive fast. Exactly. So go to maximum fun.org slash JJHO and submit them. Now, John, yeah. Something really important has happened. Yeah, tell me all about it, Jesse. I think I know where you're going with this.

This is really important. We talked about Pennsylvania media personality, Lynn Cullen, on the Judge John Hodgman podcast a few weeks ago. One of our listeners sent our show to, to Lynn Cullen, who is still working in the Pittsburgh area. Lynn Cullen was the host of the Pennsylvania game, a public television Pennsylvania trivia TV show that we talked about, and we really enjoyed Lynn Cullen on that show and talked about her.

And someone sent it to her is what you're saying. She still lives there. She reacted to it, John. I'm going to get your reaction to her reaction. Right. Let's take a look. Why am I blanking on his name? Jeff?

Was it Jeff? Sent me a YouTube thing yesterday. It's a YouTube show called Trivial Lawsuit. That was the name of the episode. Yeah. And it's star is a guy named John Hodgman. And he said, the guy who sent it to me, hey, this latest episode mentions you quite a lot and the Pennsylvania game the public television game show that I was on

a lot back in the 90s and I so he sent me the YouTube thing so I am watching it and first of all I don't comprehend that it's like these four guys it's called it's sitting around and they apparently and and this hodgeman has a i mean he actually does writing for the new york times you wouldn't know it by watching this thing and they do this silly thing where he judges some stupid thing so we had two people on both of whom saying that this game show was the best one of them was saying the Pennsylvania game, which he'd just discovered, this is a guy in Chicago, was the best public game show. And then they had another guy from New York. Sure did memorize where people were from.

What? Saying no, it's this one called so you know you know, you know. You think you know Maine. Maine. She checked her notes to make sure that it was so you know, you know Maine. Say it right, Lynn. What? Do you remember the I'm a Mac? I'm a PC commercials. John Hodgman was the I'm a PC guy. It's true. It's true. You were. Well, anyway, I started, it was over an hour long and I thought, this.

Wow. So I started fast forwarding through it, and here's what I can tell you. At 1630, 16 minutes in, they finally get around to saying something. about the Pennsylvania game. Oh, I'm sorry, we didn't devote the entire episode to you, Lynn. And then four minutes after that, 20 after, I show up. And it's a clip of me from the Pennsylvania game. And they go nuts. I mean, they go effing nuts. Who is effing amazing?

That's why. You laughing. They think everything is so effing funny. They said, I think, to a man, whoa, Lynn Cullen's kind of hot. I mean, do you know what a thrill that is to be an almost 80-year-old woman and to see a bunch of guys saying you're hot? Now, granted, they weren't talking about this iteration. But there I am, and, you know, big hair out to here and speaking. And they're saying, she's kind of hot.

And then they really liked me. Man, Hodgman said she's a tremendous personality. And they said flashy and amazing and really funny. And one of them called me a loose cannon. I don't know who said that. I think that was me. And then they got around to show on the other show. So you know you know Maine.

And as soon as they pop that thing up, Hodgman said, about the guy that popped onto the screen, whoa, that's no Lynn Cull. Yeah. Yeah. Why are you mad? Why are you mad? Why are you mad, Lynn? I gotta tell you.

You mad, doggy? I was, that is, it's so weird. And one of the things Hodgman was talking about is the main show is much more serious about the actual knowing stuff about Maine history. And he said that the Pennsylvania game was clearly more about entertainment. Well, no. But in the end, the Pennsylvania game won. Lynn Entertainment, Cullen.

She didn't. And if you ever, if you do want to look at it, it's a trivial lawsuit. It's on YouTube, I guess, right? Trivial lawsuit. Hey, we're putting a link right here. I think the most recent episode, May 13, 2006. I found an incredibly boring, except for the parts where they were raving about me. In summary.

But it's so odd. Ultimately, the Bible is a big book about God. Thank you for listening to my presentation. I guess he writes for the... All right. You wouldn't know it, but John, you wouldn't know it by listening. All we did, all we did, all we did was marvel at what a wonderful show it was. What an incredible performer she is and she still is.

Yeah, she's incredible. I don't remember saying that she was hot. I said that. Well, you know what? She was and she still is. Yeah, I'm, I'm thinking back and I'm thinking of myself, NLD. No lies to. And in terms of her pooping on me a little bit, look, I can take it.

I understand. We know our show is boring. Yeah, we get it. But it was all out of love, Lynn. Jesse Thorne tries to show this to me, make me mad because I got to be on blank check for mastering commander, but I'm not mad. And by the way, if you know anyone else who's ever had a reaction to one of our verdicts, film it and put it on YouTube. That'd be fun. John, Pennsylvania disputes.

I'm going to text my favorite Pennsylvania and former Jordan Jesse Go producer Brian Fernandez right now and find out what his Pennsylvania disputes are. I think they're already pouring in. If I'm frank with you, John, I think they're already pouring in. You know who I want a Pennsylvania?

Is it disputes or trivia questions or both? Both. Send them in. You know who I want some from? Terry Gross. Philadelphia. You know what? That's my homie. That's right.

Terry Gross. I'm going to send her. I don't think I could get her to call in, but I do think I could get her to email in a dispute. Just a dispute or a trivia question, whatever you want, Terry Gross. You know you're always welcome here. You're never boring. I got her email address, John.

Sometimes I email Terry Gross. Sometimes she emails me back. Boring, she said. Boring. Said we were boring. I mean, she had to sit there for 16 minutes waiting for the Pennsylvania game to come up. Yeah, and by the way. We would make a podcast that goes 16 minutes before they mentioned

the Pennsylvania game. By the way, no one tell Lynn Cullen that, yeah, we preliminarily ruled in favor of the Pennsylvania game, but then in a sudden upset of double jeopardy at the end. So you think you know, Maine took it away. Don't tell her that. John, we got to do swift justice. So our Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman, this episode engineered at Third Wheel Podcast Studio in Seattle, Washington. Our thanks to Jacob Derwin and Technica House for hosting John Hodgeman this week. Megan Razati runs our social media. The podcast edited by AJ McKin, our video editor, Daniel Spear.

Our thanks to Ragu Manavalin for his help with production this week. And for the past month or so, our producer, Jennifer Marmer, all right, swift justice, banter 725 at R slash maximum fun, says, I don't think it's important to fold kids laundry. We just toss pants in a drawer and shirts on another. kids are always getting dirty and they don't care anyway. An older family member thinks this is a travesty and sends the message that we don't care about our kids or their clothes. Who is right? Well, Jesse, you know, I was just doing some laundry this morning and you may not know this, but after I do my wash and the dryer, I take all of my clothes out and then I just

dump them in an oversized husky garbage tub next to my bed. Yeah. And then I root through them in the morning to try to find matching socks. And sometimes I fall in there and it's funny. And like I got my two legs up in the air. I'm fully halfway in the garbage bin and I got my legs flailing up in the air and it's a big mess. Now that's not true. I fold my laundry and, you know, here's the thing. You don't, if you don't fold your laundry, whatever, if you want your kids to eventually

fold their laundry, then you got to, you got to model the behavior for them. I'm not saying to be persnickety about it or prescriptive or to be to yell at them if, I mean, why? I mean, they're not doing their laundry, right? They're little kids. They can't do it. But, you know, if you want a certain behavior in the future, you have to start modeling it at the beginning. And I think modeling folding laundry may seem prosnickety to some. But I mean, I think modeling a certain amount of, you know, kids are going to be a mess no matter what.

but modeling a certain amount of tidiness, a certain amount of care for your environment and for your belongings, you know, it not only is modeling quote unquote good behavior, but a kind of calm, but I think kids tend to thrive in. So, yeah, I'm sorry, banter is 725. We're just bantering.

We're just having some fun bans together. But yeah, go ahead and fold the laundry. Just do it. The kids will be glad to live in a house where they feel cared for. I basically just suggested that person didn't care about their kids, but that's not what I mean. You roll your laundry. What do you mean? I don't fold it. I roll it. You roll it up.

Yeah. John, when you have children, you know that laundry folding time, that's mommy and daddy's TV time. Yeah, exactly. Submit your cases at maximum fund.org slash JJHO. No case is too big or too small. Pennsylvanians, this is your time. We want you to shine for us. shine like crazy diamonds. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO, Hodgman at maximum fun.org,

whether they're Pennsylvania specific disputes about whatever it is that you call milkshakes or or custards. I think they call them. I think frozen custard is a thing that they have. Yep. Clor is frozen custard. Or is the disputes with the state of Pennsylvania?

I'll accept that. Or it's just your trivia questions about the state of Pennsylvania. I'd love to hear. those as well. Thanks for listening to us. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.