Judge John Hodgman - Pepperoni Pauper

Episode Date: October 19, 2011

A young couple battle embarrassing behavior and bags of trash in search of unpeeled prize tickets for a shot at redemption. And a free slice of pizza. Or a free Coke.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the case of the pepperoni popper. Flynn brings the case. In his home nation, Canada, pizza boxes carry prize tags, which can mean free pizza slices, colas, and even motorcycles or electronics. Flynn says that these prize tags are often discarded along with the pizza boxes and that he scored many free meals by digging through the trash near restaurants. His girlfriend, Helen, says it's embarrassing to dig through trash and that no free slice could ever make up for the shame of doing so. Is Flynn an embarrassment to humanity or is he a free pizza genius? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Oh, I love trash. Anything dirty or dingy or dusty.

Anything ragged or rotten or rusty. I judge it because it's trash. You may swear them in, Bailiff Jesse. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes, I do. Yep. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he hasn't had to pay for food in a restaurant since he joined the cast of The Daily Show in roughly 2005? Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman?

You may be seated. First of all, Flynn, Helen, I would just like to stipulate that when I came into the courtroom singing about judging trash, that did not mean that I was judging you or that you were yourselves trash. That was merely me singing the song from the American television show Sesame Street, made famous by Oscar the Grouch, I Love Trash, in my weekly attempt to at least say or do something related to judging or singing after Jesse introduces me. So, again, just to be clear, while this case does involve garbage, I do not consider either of you human garbage, even though one of you eats garbage. So, let's get to the case. Flynn, you were the one who initially contacted the court with a complaint. Can you explain the nature of your dispute? Yes, Your Honor. I believe that this dispute revolves around the fact that

there's a promotion out for a pizza chain here in Ontario. When you buy a slice of pizza, it comes in a cardboard triangular pizza tray. I've never heard such a thing. I don't know what you have in the United States. It's a slice box. It's a triangular cardboard box that holds a single slice of pizza. Is that correct? That's correct. All right. I'm sorry. I'm an American. Can you explain what this pizza is? It's a Canadian delight, which is dough fried with cheese on top of it, plus gravy. In the Francophonic portions of Canada,

they call it poutine. Gotcha. You should have just said poutine. I always should have just said poutine. Je suis un Francophone. Mais bien sûr. Continuez, Flynn. Je te couste.

On the pizza tray, there's a removable tag, you know. Un tag removable? That's the one. Sometimes it has, you know, please try again, but sometimes it has things like free pizza slice, free Coke, free stuffed sandwiches, and the possibility of winning, you know, cash prizes or motorcycles or electronics. Let's just leave it at cash prizes or motorcycles or electronics.

Let's just leave it at cash prizes or motorcycles because it's the only two things besides food that matter in the world. First of all, Flynn, let me commend you for going into amazing detail about the nature of this promotion and all of the amazing cash prizes and motorcycles you can win from this promotion

without once attempting to buzz market the name of this pizza restaurant in Ontario. Thank you for not using my podcast to buzz market your favorite pizza place. You're welcome. So people often don't know that this promotion is going on and they will throw it out in the trash or on the street or what have you. Now, do they not know that the promotion is going on because it's Canada and it's considered to be unseemly to tell people about a promotion? That could be it. Okay. But for whatever reason, people just don't know about this.

They eat their pizza. They throw the tray away. They do. And if you look at the top of the trash bin and there's a cardboard pizza tray just lying there with the tag still attached. I don't see the issue with just picking it up, ripping off the tag, seeing if you get something. And often I- Not only do you not see an issue with it, you do it. Is that correct? Any chance I get, pretty much. And so if you're in the pizza place, will you make a purchase or will you not even bother to make a purchase?

You just go straight for the garbage can? I go in with the intent of getting something. Obviously so because you're not a person who will settle for nothing. Whether it's pizza you buy or garbage you take, you're going to get something. Exactly. Okay. You go in with the intention of buying a thing. Do you always buy a thing?

I will always buy a thing unless I have, of course, a tag that says I get a free pizza slice. You know, I'm going in there to get their product one way or another. Wait a minute, Flynn. This is very important. Okay. When you go into this pizza place that shall remain nameless, is it an individual place or is it a chain? It's a chain. Okay. When you go into this nameless pizza chain of Canada, do you have the intention? I mean, forget about your intentions. What do you do first? Go and order a thing and pay money for it? Or do you immediately go to the garbage can? Go and order a thing. Are you telling me what I want to hear? Or are you telling me the truth? That's the truth. I'm not going to go to the pizza store to look through trash. I will go in initially to buy something because I'm hungry.

Right. Either with a tag that I have or with cash money. And either probably, whether there's a lineup. If there's a lineup, I'll go check out the trash bin. If there isn't a lineup, I'll go and purchase the food and then casually kind of wander over while waiting for the slice to warm to check out to see if there's anything going on there. Just one point of clarification. When you say line up, that's what we would call an elevator, correct? No, that's a lorry.

He's talking about a queue. Gotcha. Okay. Sorry. You know what, Flynn? I really have to apologize because you were talking all that time, but I wasn't paying attention to you because I was trying to think of what the name of this nameless Canadian pizza chain should be. And I'm trying to decide between Trash Can's Canadian Pizza Palace or should it be the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage?

I think the latter, right? Yeah. One of those would work. All right. We're going to call it the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage. And you go in there. How long have they been running the promotion? All through summer, and I believe it ends at the end of this month.

This month being October? Yes. Okay. So it's a long promotion. And what kind of things have you gotten off of this promotion? Free pizza slices, free Coke beverage products. Well, let's just say, let's just say corporate beverage products.

Okay. Free water. All right. Pizza squares. What are those? Pizza slices. They're squares of pizza. Oh, what we call Sicilian pizza or Lori pizza.

And just generally they're, they're things probably less than $5. Have you gotten any cash prizes or motorcycles? No motorcycles, no cash prizes. And obviously you've gotten yourself a bunch of discarded trays as well, which you can fashion into a little home for yourself. Yeah. Helen? Yes, Your Honor.

You are the girlfriend of this creature? Unfortunately, yes. How long have you been seeing each other? Three years. Helen. Yes, Your Honor. You are the girlfriend of this creature? Unfortunately, yes. How long have you been seeing each other? Three years. Okay. I'm going to ask you now. How often does Flynn go to the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage? Three, four times a week.

Is it typical for him to go to one place that many? What I'm trying to get at is, is he going because he really likes the pizza or because he really loves shoving his hand down the garbage can? I can't speak for him, but it's just a place of convenience, I guess, because it's so close to where we live. And that's pretty much it. Canadian house of pizza and garbage. It's just a place of convenience. Is that their song? It should be.

Yeah. What I'd love is for a podcast listener to write me back with that song in French. Okay. So when he goes into the Canadian house of pizza and garbage, where does he go first? Does he go and buy an item or does he go and look in the garbage we both buy things and then like at first i didn't even know he does it i mean i just stood there and i was i just figured that he was staying next to me but then i looked over and it was like oh he's next to the trash can and yeah that's pretty much it it It's a sad story. Yeah. I just thought my boyfriend was standing next to me, but when I looked around, half of him was in the garbage can.

That's how you know when a relationship's in trouble. So when you first saw him going through the garbage, what did you say? Oh, I said, what are you doing? Are you looking for the receipt? Qu'est-ce qui se passe? Qu'est-ce qui se passe? At that point, I don't even know how to react. Like, I was just, okay.

I didn't know what was going on. Do you feel like he's going to this place a lot because he's now become addicted to going through the garbage and getting free stuff? Personally, I don't really know. But I think he's really proud of it sometimes. Like, he would tell me that he would get free things. Like, oh, I never have to pay anything. And I'm like, have I told him? But you do go there and you do pay for things. Right. And then you look, I don't know. So you would

prefer for him to go in and not buy an item and just go through the garbage. No, I thought it was very contradictory. Like here he's saying, like, I'm getting free things, but you're still spending money. I mean, why? Right, why put yourself through that shame if you could buy it with money? I don't understand that. Okay. Thank you. Flynn. May I speak to Flynn? Speaking. How does the math work? How much money are you spending in Canadian dollars, or if you want to say euros or whatever, uh, right now? And how much are you, how much do you think you're getting in value? Are you breaking even or are you doing better? It's hard to say.

How much does a slice cost at the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage? A slice and a pop is about $5. A slice and a pop for $5, that's a pretty good deal. I always thought it was just a place of convenience, but it might be a good bargain too. But the better deal is not having to pay for either of those because all I had to do was look through the top layer of a garbage can. Is it always the top layer? Not always, but it's not so much rummaging as it is sifting through. If there is a thing on top of a visible cardboard pizza tray, I will slightly move it to the side to get to the pizza tray.

I'm not going in headfirst, digging through. No, I know. But it's a thin line, you have to admit, between rummaging and sifting. Do you know, in French, there's no distinction. They're both the same word, garbagé. It's the same verb. To garbagé. How deep have you gone in there?

Arm length, maybe? Arm length? Not to the armpit or to the elbow? Think carefully before you answer. Well, there's not that much garbage in there, so it's kind of on the bottom. So it's still the top layer. It's just there's not a lot of it in it. So maybe, you know, to the armpit.

You sent in some evidence. Is that correct? I believe so. Okay. So I see here a picture of you holding one of the promotional free tags that you get. Free stuffed sandwich. Redeem it. Participate in Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage.

Restaurants. Walk-in only. What's a stuffed sandwich? Is that poutine between two slices of poutine? Mostly. What is it really? It just seems like a folded small pizza slice. Like not calzone, but there's pizza stuff inside of a small crust pastry thing.

And how much does that usually go for? Don't count the pop, please. $3. $3? Yeah. So in a situation like this, you might go in, you might buy a slice of pizza. You get a tag and it has nothing on it. Then you go into the garbage, you get this tag, you get a $3 value.

There we go. Yes, exactly. So you get a stuffed sandwich and the slice of pizza all for $5. It's an $8 value. And the pop. It's an $8 value for $5. Does that math make sense to you, Helen? Do you see why he does it now?

I guess kind of, but then it's not that much of a difference. I mean, like, I mean, how much is your pride? I mean, is it like $3? Like, I don't know. Helen, you couldn't have said it better. Honestly, I was just about to say there is a hidden cost, which is your human soul. Your dignity, sir. Yeah. You have a picture here of the garbage can. At first I was inclined to, you know, when I first considered this case, when I came through the court transom, I was like,

well, you know, look, if it's literally sitting on top of the garbage and it's right there and he sees that there's a prize, why not reach in and take it? But that's not possible, is it, and he sees that there's a prize, why not reach in and take it? But that's not possible, is it, sir? Because I'm looking at this picture of a garbage can and this is a push door garbage can, is it not? One of the garbage cans where you push a door to gain access to the garbage area and then there's a flat space on top for you to return a tray, right? Yes. Okay. And now you even have a picture of yourself pushing the garbage can open. Yeah. Right? So to have access to this, you can't, there is no casual walk-by peer in the garbage can see an amazing cash prize or motorcycle on top.

You'd be foolish to pass it up. You are making a proactive effort to go into the garbage, to put your hand in the garbage. Is that right? It's correct. But it's just one, it's a very small step. I'm not making a big deal out of it. It's very casual. Open it up, see if there's anything in there.

I think the point of the fact that it's degrading and it might be weird for other people around, this is a chain restaurant in a strip mall in a not very nice place in town. I'm sure they've seen much worse things. You've already debased your dignity just by going there? Is that what you're saying? No, but it's not a fine Italian eatery.

It's a not a, you don't need to dress up. I'm sure they've seen much worse things. It's open till 3 a.m. Everyone there doesn't really care what I'm doing. So your argument is that because no one cares that you're going through the garbage, that you're not paying a price in your own dignity. Exactly. Because everyone there is acting like an animal. Not exactly, but more or less.

Well, and by animal, I'm talking about the classic Canadian animal, the wolverine. It's not that they're acting like animals. It's just that I'm sure they have much better things to care about. If they see a weird guy going through, not necessarily going through, but looking into the garbage, they might just think, that's weird, but I'll never see them again. But do you understand what personal dignity is? I have a vague concept of it. You only seem to judge it by what the guy at Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage

thinks of you, not clearly what Helen thinks of you or what you think of yourself. I think of myself just fine. I think of myself as someone who sees an opportunity. If they're going to throw away their trays without even looking in to see if they've won a cash prize or a motorcycle, then if they threw away $100 and I looked in and saw $100, I mean, I would take it. I wouldn't feel good about myself. I wouldn't feel bad. So it's a potential cash prize, and if not, it's a potential free meal. I once pitched an anthology TV show to the Fox network about a deranged millionaire who goes from pizza house to pizza house throughout Canada, throwing away $100 bills just to see what happens.

It's just weird that you would say that. That's all. Cause that's my personal property that you just pulled out of my own garbage. Helen. Yes, your honor. If I were to rule in your favor and I'm not saying that I'm going to, no matter what it may sound like, I'm, I just like making fun of people. That doesn't mean that I'm going to rule in your favor. Mm-hmm.

But what would you like me to do? This promotion is going to end at the end of October. And will things go back to normal, or will you never be able to see Flynn in the same way again? I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, like, I would really want him to stop or at least not do it in front of me. Like, I don't think that's unreasonable. I mean, like. What about Helen's suggestion that you just not do it in front of me. Like, I don't think that's unreasonable. I mean, like. What about Helen's suggestion that you just not do it in front of her?

But what if the best prize is that moment in the trash? Yeah. This is where I feel like. Yeah. Every time it's a missed opportunity if you don't do it. Yeah. Every time you don't go through the garbage, it is a missed opportunity. I see what you're saying.

And it's not like we're eating garbage. Sure, it's food derived from garbage, but it's not, I'm not picking up a pizza slice in the garbage and offering it to her or eating it myself. Like, what if you said, okay, you know what, honey, I'm not going to do it anymore. Like, I can just see it because that's the day where the next person comes along, opens up the trash can, and there's a motorcycle in there. Exactly. What would you do with a motorcycle? You don't even have a license.

Yeah, what would you do if you won a motorcycle? Good point. I would get a license and ride it around town. Oh, you would. Do you not have a motorcycle license or do you not have a driver's license of any kind? I don't have a driver's license. How old are you? Are you crazy kids? Crazy Canadian kids? 23 and she's 22. Okay. All right. I think I have enough information to make my decision. I will go into chambers. I will rummage around for that eclair that I threw out

and chew it as I chew over this case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Helen, I have to ask you a very serious question. Yes. What have you lost by having a boyfriend who sees fit to dig through the garbage in public? I guess I feel weird. I don't see him the same way. I mean, if I saw that before I ever dated him, it might have been a huge impact, but like three years, like, I don't know. Has it affected your romantic life?

I try not to think about it because it gets really traumatizing. Flynn, why would you traumatize your girlfriend of three years by being a kind of garbage man? I don't think she's correct by saying she's traumatized. The only time that she complains about it is when I'm actively doing it or when we're discussing the fact that I am bragging to the fact that I just looked through the trash. And free meal. I didn't have to pay for lunch that day. And as a student, a free meal is everything. So there isn't really any traumatic experience. I do not believe her on that.

I can't tell my friends that. If my friends ever know about this. But other than when I'm actively doing it or if we're discussing it, arguing about it, it's not really that traumatic. We go on about our day. I am full. I have a free lunch. And that's the only change.

Flynn, the Canadians are famous for their inability to brag. This is a nation that can't even brag about great stuff like Cardinal Official or that show The Newsroom. And yet you're telling me that you see fit to brag about digging through trash for free stuffed sandwiches? I'm not digging through trash for free stuffed sandwiches? I'm not digging through trash for free stuffed sandwiches. I'm digging through the trash and then receive free stuffed sandwiches. There's a key difference there. So you see yourself as being paid in stuffed sandwiches to dig through trash. I see myself as...

You know what? Don't even answer that. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Oh, that was delicious. I forgot there was a tuna melt down there. Flynn, in a vacuum, and by which I mean the intensely cold vacuum of Canada, you are doing nothing wrong. Indeed, you are doing something that has a strong philosophical basis behind it called freeganism or dumpster diving. You are going through garbage and rescuing what other people waste to your own benefit.

I mean, you are absolutely right. Every time you walk by a trash can and don't dig your hand into it, who knows what millions of dollars worth of unclaimed motorcycles full of free cash prizes will be left unclaimed because you walked by a garbage can without jumping into it. And that's true. There's nothing wrong with that. And honestly, even though I was given pause when I saw the actual garbage can that you were garbage-ing through, because it really is, you have to be pretty invasive to get your hand into that thing. You are really putting a lot of your body into contact with garbage can in order to get in there. I still feel that you have every right to do what it is you're doing.

So from a question of moral right, or as they say in Montreal, droit moral. There's no question there. You are in the droit. However, you do have a blind spot on this issue that I feel compelled as a human being to bring to your attention. When Helen, I think very wisely, pointed out the cost of your pride that you pay in order to get the so-called free stuffed sandwich, you said that you didn't think there was such a cost because everyone in this strip mall acts like a weirdo who goes through garbage and no one seems to care. In fact, you even went so far as to say that no one really sees you do it, especially not Helen when you sneak away from her side in order to feed your weird addiction to garbage rummaging, riff sifting. But the reality is you are seen by Helen,

who clearly is someone you care about and clearly does not like this activity. You are seen by yourself. Some would say you are seen by God. All must agree you are seen by the security cameras at the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage. So you need to make a decision. If in your own sight, you are not paying a price of dignity or pride, that is a decision that you can make for yourself. But in Helen's sight, you clearly are making a decision that disturbs her. And I think

that you have to accept that the longer you put your hand in garbage cans, the shorter your relationships are going to be. I am not suggesting that you are doing anything wrong, but as any hobo will tell you, going through the garbage is a lonely life, and one that is perhaps not worth the stuffed pizza that you get out of it. That said, you are free to continue to do exactly what you want, but you must be acutely aware of two things. One, you are hurting your girlfriend. And two, you are perhaps compelled in an unhealthy way to look through the garbage out of the fear that you might be passing up something great. Because when you are staring at a garbage can, wondering if there is some sort of free ticket for food in there, you are missing the great thing that is standing right next to you, your girlfriend and other human friends who do not go through garbage. I can't find in Helen's

case, because it is really a personal choice that you're making. But one that I advise you has severe ramifications for you personally going forward, and I want you to think seriously about it, but not until this amazing promotion at Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage is over, because it is a great place for convenience and for garbagey stuffed pizza. This is the sound of a gavel. Russell, Russell, Russell, Russell. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Lynn, how do you feel? I feel somewhat vindicated, but I understand where his point is. And I will take it under consideration. Helen, have you ever heard the expression there are other fish in the sea?

Yeah, I have. There's a whole giant dumpster full of dudes out there for you to rummage through. Who knows? One of them may have a motorcycle. Don't just grab the one that's sitting on the surface. Get your

arm all the way into the bottom and you might find yourself an amazing, gleaming motorcycle of a man who could make you happy. I'm just saying, as long as this guy's looking through the garbage, you have a right to look around a little bit yourself. Sorry, Flynn. All right, thanks, John.

Helen, Flynn, thank you for joining us on Judge John Hodgman. Thank you very much. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, it is so warm and comfortable here in your chambers. Sorry, Jesse, I couldn't hear you. I'm at the bottom of this dumpster behind my desk. Oh, gosh. You wouldn't believe what people throw away.

Old bicycle chains, rotted things, broken plates. What are people thinking when they throw this stuff away? Are you telling me that all I have to do is jump into a dumpster and I can get free rotted things? I know. America, right? Boy, we are a culture of waste. Speaking of waste, I kind

of feel like it would be a waste if we didn't take the opportunity to clear our dockets on some food related matters. I kind of think it would be a waste to waste that sweet segue that you just did. Here's an issue from Erin. Erin says, My girlfriend of roughly two years insists that it is repulsive to drink while chewing food

or to consume a beverage immediately following food intake. She does not merely feel this way as a matter of personal taste, but actually gets disgusted at any point when she witnesses me doing so and swears that I am in a minority for enjoying the combination of food and drink. I'm determined to find out once and for all if I'm truly practicing a habit that is widely considered to be grotesque, or if my girlfriend is vastly underestimating the number of people who have no problem drinking while

eating and unfairly persecuting me for the way that I eat. So, Judge Hodgman, what say you? Is it normal to drink and eat at the same time? Right, let me understand. This guy, like, so he'll take a bite of chow and while he's still chewing

he's gonna, like, fill his mouth up with some whole milk or ginger ale or whatever? Yeah, like he could eat, what if he ate a piece of brownie and he wants to put some milk in his mouth? Is he a miner? Is he a working man? Is he a cowboy?

Is he eating off the back of a chuck wagon? It doesn't say here that he's not eating hardtack. Does he have to replenish calories at an alarming weight because he's swimming across the English Channel? Yeah, you know what? Girlfriend's right. Don't. That's gross. Don't drink while chewing. Let me refer you to the important precedent

of Patton Oswalt versus KFC famous bowls for all argument you need that you do not need to combine everything on your plate into your disgusting maw as quickly as possible. Sorry, buddy. Here's a question from Rob. He says a few months ago, my roommate and I had an argument over the proper vessel from which to eat cereal. I walked into the living room of our apartment to see him eating cereal out of a coffee mug. Thinking that there were no clean bowls, I went to run the dishwasher only to discover that it was empty and there were approximately one dozen perfectly clean

cereal bowls in the cabinet. When I asked my roommate why he was eating cereal from a mug, he said that he only wanted a little bit of cereal and he did not trust his self-control to pour himself a small bowl. He also argued that since a mug can hold both liquids and solids, like a bowl, it was okay to use a mug and at the end of the snack he could drink the milk easily. My main argument against eating cereal from a mug is that bowls cannot be used to drink liquids such as coffee, tea, hot cocoa, etc. as easily as from a mug. If mugs are used for cereal as well as hot beverages, this creates an imbalance in the

workload of mugs and may lead to a situation in which someone wants a cup of coffee, but there are no clean mugs. Also, mugs are too narrow to allow the eater a balanced distribution of milk and cereal. All right, stop, stop, stop, stop. Look, there is an issue with cereal in a mug of getting proper core milk distribution because the surface area is smaller. But, you know, sometimes I feel like people are sending these things in as sort of like Hodgman bait because they think I'm such like a stuffy weirdo who is so peculiar and has such weird little peccadillos about things

that if you explain to me why a bowl is better for cereal in all sorts of semi-scientific language, of course I'm going to rule out the dude using the mug as a monster. Why? Just because I said if you have a hot dog at the movies, you're inhuman? Look, I'm an easygoing guy. I'm an easygoing guy. This guy can have a cereal mug if he wants. It's no big deal. Stop it. Stop being such a snob about it.

Jeez. Then it's settled. It is settled. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, be sure to email us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. That's Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. What are we looking for? We're looking for actual disputes from pleasant people for us to adjudicate. So just lay out the dispute for us a little bit and give us some contact information.

And our producer, Julia, will give you a call. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You know what? A lot of people out there are saying to themselves right now, I don't have any disputes in my life, but I'd like to be involved with the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast. disputes in my life, but I'd like to be involved with the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast. If I might take this opportunity to recommend that they spend the month of November following you around the country on tour for your new book, the final installment in your Areas of My Expertise series. It is called That Is All, and I think that's a pretty good recommendation, Jesse. If any of you want to follow me around to every stop of my book tour, for that is all,

then you should feel free to do so, but it might be a little creepy. Instead of going to all of the stops on my book tour, why not go to areasofmyexpertise.com and look at where I might be coming near you. I'll be in New York City, in Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle, St. Louis. Two stops in North Carolina, Jesse. Asheville and Durham. Austin, Texas. Boston, Massachusetts.

Well, technically Brookline, Massachusetts. My hometown. And at least one or two that I forgot or maybe have forgotten and offended. Did I say St. Louis, Missouri? You did, but I think we can all agree that's a great place and that the Gateway Arch is one of the nation's most underrated monuments. I'm taking it down, though. I'm going to smash that thing. If you want to see, just go to areasofmyexpertise.com to find out John's full tour schedule

for the month of November. And if you don't live in any of those places, well, you can still go to your amazon.coms, your barnesandnobles.coms, your powells.coms and pre-order a copy of this book because if you haven't read this by the time Ragnarok hits, you're really going to be in the pits. Well, thank you, Jesse. I really appreciate your saying so.

We'll see you guys next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Bumster dive! The Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thumbs to dive. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of Maximum Fun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support this show and all of our shows

at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne and edited by Matt Gourley. His great podcast, by the way, is called Super Ego. You can find it in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, email us and be sure and include your telephone number. The email address is hodg at MaximumFun.org.

If you have thoughts about the show, you can always comment on it on our message board, forum.maximumfun.org. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.