Judge John Hodgman - Prawn and Order

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Leora brings the case against her husband, Sam. Sam once brought home a SURPRISE fish tank. Sam and the kids love it, but not Leora! To add insult to injury, Sam brought home two surprise shrimp - ostensibly to clean the tank. Leora wants Sam to talk to her before adding more pets to the home, but Sam says that shrimp aren’t pets - they’re part of the tank’s filtration system! Who’s right? Who’s wrong?To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! ---Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes and more. Memberships start at just $5 a month. Just tap here!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff, Jesse Thorne. This week, prawn and order. Sam and Leora have a fish tank in their home. Sam and their two kids love the fish, but Leora hates them. To make matters worse, Sam brought home two surprise shrimp to clean the algae inside the tank. Leora wants Sam to talk to her before adding more pets to the home. Sam says these shrimp aren't pets. They're part of the filtration system. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Torrey and his crew were racing in the Skagen Round Regatta and Tori's sailboat Salta Marina in 1956.

There was no wind. Chances of victory were gone. The crew was depressed. Needing to cheer them up, Toray searched the galley. Not much. But enough. He found eggs and oil, shrimp, dill, and a lemon, and a loaf of bread. Hocus, pocus, toast Skagin. Vail of Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Sam and Leora, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he lives in Maine, where all creatures of the sea go in your mouth, num, num, num, numb, numb. I do.

Me too. Judge Hodgeman, you may proceed. num, numb, numb, numb. Sam and Laura, you may be seated. I have enjoyed some Gulf of Maine shrimps in my time, and they did not clean out the algae in my mouth. I went straight to my belly. This is, by the way, I am in Maine. That's correct, Jesse.

And I'm here with Joel Mann, our local producer here in the solar-powered studios of Community Radio, W-E-R-U in Orleans, Maine. And Joel, this is the last time we're going to see each other for a little while, for summer has come to an end here in Maine. It's been fun. It's been fun. And probably wherever you are, listeners, unless you are in the southern hemisphere, in which case, cool or hot or I don't know what's going on for you. I know if I'm going down the drain the wrong way, that's for sure. Joel, real quick, final check-in, final hot dog and chicken tender check-in.

Yep. The gas station at the intersection of 15 and Route 1. hot dog machine, still broken. Also, no dark meat tenders. No wonder you're leaving. Yeah, I'm out of here. Can't do it anymore. Can't do this anymore.

All right, Sam and Louer, you are seated. Thank you for that. You heard my obscure cultural reference. Hocus, Pocus, toast, Skagin. You probably know exactly what I'm referring to, but keep it in the back of your mind because you'll have a chance to steal the verdict after we hear the case right before I give my official verdict.

I will repeat the cultural reference, and if one of you gets it, It's an immediate summary judgment in your favor. But for now, let's get into the fake law. Who seeks justice in this courtroom? Is it you, Sam? It is me, yes. Sam. You seek justice not just for yourself, but all of the fishes and shrimps in your home aquarium.

What is going on? What's the problem? It started when we were pet smart. Wait, is that where you guys met? You already met a pet smart? No, that's where their divorce started, John. Okay, got it. That may be true. That may be true. Well, yeah, I guess this was about two years ago now.

I was going with the kids, and we thought it would be fun to go to the pet store to go see if we could handle some of the hamsters, which they let us do. And then the kids really wanted to get a pet and some fish. And I thought, yeah, that'd be neat, but you can't just bring home fish right away. You've got to get the tank first and condition the water. And so then we came home with the fish tank. And then Leora was like, hey, what's all this? Brought home a fish tank.

Sure. That's that famous Albuquerque New Mexico accent, I believe. Right? That's where we're... Oh, yeah. That's where we... And then I was like, well, I have to go get a stand for it now, too. And then we got some fish, and they've been kicking around for two years.

And then... Same fish? Same fish, yeah. Wow. Every once in a while, some algae grows on the side, and I've been one to get snails. And I went back to that pet store two times for snails. They didn't have them. And then the third time, the woman who was working there said, well,

maybe instead of snails, he can get shrimp. And I said, oh, that's jolly good. I know. What's all this then, governor? I'm here in Albuquerque. Do you have some jolly good snails for me? Hello, it's me, the husband with me wife, Jackie Mason. And we brought home a couple snails?

Got ahead of yourself because you didn't bring home snails, did you? You went for snails. So the snails you wanted, you didn't want some companion snails. These were snails specifically to clean the algae in the tank. Yeah. Did the pet store have snails? No, they didn't. So what happened?

I bought shrimp. So you came home with shrimps. And by the way, Joel, you can say shrimps or shrimp. Both are correct, just so you know, Joel. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. And Laura, how did you feel about the shrimps coming home?

Well, I feel that Sam takes very good care of our fish. Good. But it's sort of a symptom of. the larger issue of whether he can just bring a pet home without talking about it. So let me go back in time for a moment here. When Sam brought home the fish, this was in consultation with you or no? It was not. Sam came home, to be fair, not with fish, but with all of the accoutrements that one might need to enjoy fish. So the tank, the filtration system, the stones that go on the bottom, the decorations, the excited children. Everything. Do you have a little scuba diver, Sam? Yes or no? Barrel.

Barrel? Yeah, barrel. A buggler, everything. All the food, all the chemicals. He was ready for fish, and I was not ready for fish. Leora, that was just in case fish arrived. Just in case they arrived. Because you'd hate to think that the fish come, you don't have anywhere to put them. That's right. That's right. I was part of the trip to purchase the fish once I had gotten over the acquisition of the supplies. Once it became clear that fish were in your future, you went along to purchase them. That's correct. How many fish are there, Sam? Two fish, Blub and Rosie.

Blub? Yeah, that's short for Blubb, Blubb and Rosie. I know what Blub is short for. I'm well-educated. And I believe you send in some evidence of Blub and Rosie in their tank, which if you're looking at the YouTube right now at Judge John Hodgman Pot is our YouTube channel. Please go and subscribe. You're seeing it right now. And if you're not watching on YouTube right now, you can share out all the photographic evidence on our show page at maximum fund.org and, of course, on our social media. And here indeed is the fish tank. Which one is Blub and which one is Rosie? There's sort of a hot pink magenta one and then a classic orange one. What kind of? Well, Sam's colorblind, and I don't remember. Oh, really?

Rosie's the orange one. Rosie. Blub is the purple one. And what kind of fish are they? They're genetically engineered to be pets. They're glowfish. Now, look, I know that Blub is short for Blubb, Blub, but that is as far as my home aquarium knowledge goes.

These are genetically engineered to be pets. Yeah, they glow in the dark, yeah. The proprietary blown by PetSmart. Yeah, this, do they glow in the dark? Like a... No, you have to put in the dark. put a black light on them. Yeah.

And does he? He does. That's wild. And there's that barrel. Honestly, Sam, I don't know why you didn't get a scuba diver or like a guy in an old-timey diving suit with a big round helmet. Because, John, it's conspicuously obvious. He's got all this fluorescent and black gravel. He is doing full atomic bowling in that fish tank.

So these fish have been alive. Blub and, sorry, what is Blubbs companion? Rosie. Wait a minute. Blub is the hot pink one and rosy is the orange one? Yeah. You really are colorblind. But you've kept them alive for two years.

That's right. That's frankly, Lior. More than that. You must acknowledge that's astonishing. It is astonishing. Sam takes very, very good care of these fish. I heard a sort of an, yeah, which I immediately interpreted to mean that over the course of that two years, several times they have been replaced by similar-looking fish.

Absolutely not. This is the same fish. I mean, he's recently gotten over a period of treating Rosie for... Low-glow? For something. Low-glow. Yeah, we went out of town for a little bit, and she got the ick. She got a little, like, something growing on her tail, and he, you know, had a whole setup to treat her separately.

Give her back. Yeah. What is the closest relation to the glowfish? I mean, just so people who are not looking at the YouTube, which is fine. Neon Tetras. Yeah, the tetra. I got to say, I'm very impressed by the two-year plus lifespan of these fish, because in my experience, the only reason you take your kids to a big box pet store

is to get them ready to experience death as soon as possible as a teaching, especially a pet store that allows you to handle the hamsters. That sounds wildly irresponsible. I don't think they were really allowed to do that. That's why we went to that one. John, if you don't let children handle the hamsters, when are the hamsters going to go to the bathroom? Yeah, exactly right.

The hamster's toilet is always the palm of a child. All right. And Leor, this is not the first time we've spoken to you, correct? Haven't you been on this podcast before? We were on your podcast during a live show almost exactly 10 years ago. In Brooklyn. Oh, at the Bell House. That's right.

And what was that dispute about? Please refresh our memories. That dispute was about whether Sam was allowed to play the trumpet inside of our tiny fifth floor walk-up apartment in Manhattan. Right. Sam, do you still blow the horn? No. Well, I came on your podcast. I'd been playing for two months.

I was so nervous. And I played in front of a professional jazz. band and a live audience. I remember rehearsing, take me out to the ballgame over and over again until my face was turning blue. And then I was really into it. And then I guess life just got in the way. I run a laboratory and spend too much time doing science and then the kids. And so, no, I don't blow the horn anymore. But I'd like to. Sometimes our responsibilities mute our horn. That's exactly right. I can still do a scale. You didn't bring your trumpet with you, did you? No, not today.

Now you live in the desert. You can play trumpet all day long. No one cares. That's right. This is true. So, Sam, I want to go back to this. You came home from the big box pet store with a fish tank. Why just the tank?

Did you anticipate resistance to your concept? Well, yeah, I did. But there's a technical reason you can't just bring home fish. You have to condition the water. water first. So you had made the decision to welcome glowfish into your home already. You were just bringing back the tank to get things ready. Yeah, I mean the kids. Yeah, the kids, but do the kids get a vote, really? The family of the war. I mean, there's someone, there's someone special in your life. Yeah, well, she weighed in on which fish. Well, wait a minute. I just want to be really clear on this.

Leorah, when Sam and your two human children left for the day, did you know that they were going to the pet store? I don't think so. This was a long time ago. I understand. These are immortal fish, obviously. It was 35 years ago or whatever. Right. She was told they were going to the corner for cigarettes.

That's right. When he came home with a fish tank, were you surprised? I was surprised. Had he called from the pet store saying, I'm thinking about getting some fish and I'm getting a fish tank, sound cool? He did not. When you processed your surprise,

what other feelings did you have at this point? Well, the children were really excited. Okay. And it was, I grew up with fish as well. I wasn't really opposed to the idea of fish. And I still am not. I don't, it was described at the top of the show that I hate the fish.

I wouldn't say I hate the fish, but I would not have chosen to have fish. When you say you grew up with fish, were you born a mermaid and then you then grew legs and now live in the desert? Because you hate fish? She grew up just watching the show Fish Police. Yeah. That's why I'm here to escape that childhood. No, I just had a small, similarly a 10-gallon fish tank with basic fish in it, who were not as well cared for as ours. Sorry, Dad.

Did you have a scuba guy or at least someone in an old-timey diving helmet in your tank? No, not that I recall. Those fish in your childhood died. Was that a traumatic experience for you? I remember flushing them down the toilet. I don't remember being traumatized by it. Let me go to this way. When you flushed your dead pets down the toilet, I presume they were dead.

Maybe they were alive. Do you remember that as a fond memory or as a harder memory? It's certainly there. It's neutral, but it's there, which says something. Yeah, absolutely. So how did you feel about the fact that Sam had not consulted you on the fish tank purchase? This was the point of contention, more than the fish themselves, was that I felt that I was missing out on the fun of the excitement of going to purchase. saw the fish.

Right. And that, you know, this was more than two years ago. And so we had, we had gotten past that, certainly, before the shrimp came home. Well, let's get into the shrimps. I see these, I see these wonderful glowfish in the tank. But I don't say any shrimps in that tank. Where are the shrimps? I think they've been eaten. Excuse me? I think they've been eaten. By whom? Blopped Rosie. Well, one of them Let the record show that I did not I was not prepared for this twist at all.

I did not know. We haven't seen the shrimp in some time. In some time. And we know that one of them died while Sam was out of town and I did have to speak with the children about that and fish it out. And did you get another chance to flush something down the toilet,

your childhood hobby? I didn't do that. How did you get rid of that shrimp? These shrimp are the size of, like, they're so tiny that they're hard to see when they are alive. And so I think it may have been slipped down the sink or into the trash. I don't even. They're like two or three millimeters and they're transparent. Yeah.

Let's take a look at Exhibit B labeled the type of shrimp. 79 cents. Yeah, 79 cents. Yeah. Yeah, so this is a screenshot of what looks like an online retailer. I can only presume that the retailer here is Long John Silvers. Leoria, you have to admit these shrimps have a pretty hot name, ghost shrimp. It's hard to see them.

And they're only 79 cents each. Is that 79 cents when they're alive or 79 cents when they're ghosts? Living shrimp, 79 cents? With filtration? Yeah, living live? Pet, I will point out, said. Well, that's what this is about, right? Whether or not this counts as a pet.

Tell me about the job when they were alive and present. Tell me about the job the ghost shrimps did, Sam. Well, according to the woman who sold them to me, they were supposed to eat some of the algae and leftover flakes that went to the bottom and I guess a fish poop. I don't know. I don't know if they're really good at that or not, but that's how they were sold. I came in there for snails.

Yeah, we know that you wanted snails so bad. And I will say that when I realized that they were probably gone, Lior was out of town for work and I was very tempted to buy more shrimp, but I didn't think it would make my case look good. So I respectfully left that out. He did okay the snails with me. I will give him that. Okay.

So Lior, are he okayed the snails with you? What do you mean? He said I'm thinking about getting some snails for the, for the fish tank. To clean the algae off the inside surface of the, right? Yeah. I said, oh, okay. So you, you consented.

But then months later, he got the shrimp. Months later. Months later, I would say, yeah. And how did you feel when the shrimp came home? A bit indignant. Because in my mind, we had discussed the fact that it was, you know, something that I wanted to be a part of, or at least have a heads up about adding more.

pets to our home, to our menagerie. And then I'll let Sam speak for himself. And I mean, John, she had approved 79 cents each for algae cleaning creatures, but it was an extra $1,000 for the undercoating that he got sold. Yeah, they do a lot of upselling over there, don't they? Oh, yeah. This true coat. Oh, you want this true coat.

So now you've got no shrimps, and there's just algae all over the place in Blubbin, he's enclosure. Is that correct? No, I scrub the tank. Okay. Good. I was just hoping to scrub a little less. Yeah, good for you. So the shrimps are gone, Leora. It seems like this has all been resolved. What's, what remains of the beef? Well, the case that Sam submitted was our shrimp pets. And in my mind, you know, I have all this reasoning around why shrimp are pets. Yeah.

And Sam has all this reasoning around why they aren't. And I think we, I think the disagreement is whether the tank represents, you know, sort of Sam's realm. Is the tank, can Sam put anything he wants in that tank at any time? Or must it be approved by me? And Sam really is interested in the question of whether a shrimp in this context can be considered a pet or not. Okay, I understand. Let's hear the arguments. Leora, are shrimp's pets? Yes or no? And if so, why?

I think shrimp are pets. I think shrimp, at least brine shrimp, have been marketed as pets, sea monkeys since the 1950s. That's some settled law right there, Sam. They're sold those pets. The children did name them. Oh, what were their names? The shrimp are called Shrimpy and Frogonia. Well, one of them we know is dead. The other one is merely missing.

Are you suggesting, Sam, that you know which of the shrimp is dead? We could tell them apart when they were both alive. I don't know which one. And there is a chance that's still in there. They're really, they hide well and they're very fast. They are invisible. Yeah, one is definitely dead and one is MIA. But if they are named and you can tell them apart, why are they not pets, Sam?

They have a job. Their primary reason for being in our house was to be part of the filtration system. Right. But there are lots of companion animals that also have jobs to do. For example, many, many dogs also provide some home protection, or they might lie on top of you and give you comfort. Yeah. And I would actually make the argument that you could have a purely working dog and that would be closer to what I'm describing than a pet. If it lived outside and it was really...

Right. But if you brought home a trained border collie that existed only to herd sheep. Yeah. I should probably ask my wife. Well, that's what this comes down to. You would come home from the pet store with a bunch of sheep in preparation for the border collies. Exactly. Yeah, we had to get the sheep so that the border collie will have something to herd.

Obviously, bringing home animals, whether working animals or non-working animals, without consulting with your wife, it feels to me like that's a mistake, right, Sam? Well, we did it before, and it wasn't so bad. Was it? We're talking about the fish, right? No. Other animals, too. Yeah, there's been others. What other animals have you brought home?

Well, we, from an Dohaer Science Fair project, we harvested a bagworm cocoons. See which ones would hatch first. Those were not pets. Those were scientific subjects. Uh-huh. What are, I believe that that is Exhibit D, if we could look at that, please. You're going to have to fill me in on what a bagworm is. Definitely sounds like something.

I want to bring into my home. Yeah, sounds really nice. Yeah. Definitely something I want to cuddle with in the even, in front of fire. Show you here. That's me harvesting a bagworm cocoons. Okay, here is a photo of you making a pretty cool selfie pose. Yeah, kind of like a duck face situation.

Yeah. That's a picture I sent to my friends. I didn't know it was going to be on evidence here. But yeah, that's a bagworm cocoon. And then little moths will hatch out of there. Well, actually, larvae caterpillars will... I noticed you haven't answered the simple question. What is a bagworm?

It's the caterpillar stage of a moth. And I forget the name of the moth. A certain kind of moth. Okay. Let me just say, whether they're pets or not, all these animals are gross. Lear, are bagworms pets? Yes or no? No.

But I think that because my definition of a pet involves having that animal until it's like, to the end of its natural life. I don't think that that was... The bagworms were an experiment. The roadrunner wasn't a pet. Leora, I can't help but notice that you said the roadrunner. Maybe you could expand on this? Yes.

There are many roadrunners running around our neighborhood, and Sam spent a lot of time learning about roadrunner behavior and training it to click for tiny pepperonies. It was really a fun. It was a fun experiment. I appreciate that most of our audience

does not need this explanation. But you'll have to forgive me because I'm a person of New England. I'm in love with Massachusetts Route 128 when it's dark outside. I love roadrunners. But I do not know about the animal roadrunner. I know about the song Roadrunner by Jonathan Richmond. Sam, forgive me for asking the most obvious question in the world, but what the hell is going on

where you're training roadrunners to click for pepperonies? What? I guess it's like why climb Mount Everest? Stop. Don't. Because it's there. I'm not asking for a metaphor. I'm not asking for wisdom, a life lesson. I want to know when do roadrunners click. Why do they click for pepperoners? What is going on in your world down there in Albuquerque? And was it wise for us to allow you to leave New York to go to this place to do these weird things? Tell me what are your, tell me about this hobby. The animals click for each other to get each other. What is it? Roadrunner clicks on?

Meep like. Okay. It's a beak. They're beaks. Okay. And so I thought that was a natural behavior that I could hone into because they do it to one another for food anyway. And so then I trained it so I could just leave my house and whistle. It would come zipping down the street. And then I would whistle again. And they would click

its beak and then I'd throw the mini pepperoni like a frisbee and it would jump up in the air and take it. And it was so successful that the Roadrunner moved its nest to across the house. It would start waiting for us to open the door. And then it would kind of run inside sometimes and it got a little bit too much. And one day he came to our door of a forsaken and forlorn. This crest was all tousled and feathers were out of order. He didn't take the pepperoni. That was it. And Pippi was the name of the Roadrunner.

Pippi was the name of the Roadrunner. The kids named it. And do you have video of you feeding pepperonies to Pippi? Yeah, I do. Where is it? I submitted as evidence. Let's take a look at that right now. I heard it click.

Yeah, and you see the crest come up too. A little crest went up. And where's, but where is it? I'm eating the pepperoni. I've clipped it too soon. I can say another one. I find you in contempt of court. Sorry.

You must have a social media account just feeding pepperonies to roadrunners, right? It's popular here in Albuquerque. A lot of people are doing it. Why don't you? You run a lab, you mentioned, down there. May I presume that you're a specialty is weird science? I'm pretty sure it's methamphetamines, right? Albuquerque.

Yeah. So is Pippi a pet? Well, that's what I was just going to ask, Leora. Is Pippi a pet, Leora? No. Okay. No, Pippie isn't entirely reliance on us for all of its care and well-being and food. I feel like that's what a pet is.

And would you say that so Pippi is not a pet by your estimation either, Sam, right? No. Pippie was a semi-domesticated wild animal. Leora, it seems to me that you'd have a much stronger case if instead of complaining about two barely visible, transparent, microscopic ghost shrimp that live in a tank until they are eaten by fish, versus the fact that your husband is feeding pepperoni to roadrunners all the time, that would have been the thing that I would presume would be the dispute. Please order my husband to stop feeding the roadrunners.

But that's not the issue. It's these shrimp, these ghost shrimp or these ex-ghost, these double-ghost shrimp if they're dead. What makes them pets and these other weird creatures not? They live in our fish tank and we're responsible for them. I had to scoop one out when it died and talk to the kids about it. I think that for me it's emblematic of the larger question. of whether the fish tank, first of all, Sam brought this case about whether shrimp are pets. I think because he wanted to have total control over the fish tank.

If the fish tank is there and it's not, you know, I'm, I don't take, frankly, I don't take care of these fish or shrimp in the least. And so in my mind, this is about whether he has free reign to bring home whatever he wants to put in the fish tank. especially if it has anything to do with me. But here I am, and I know that what he wants is to put larger and larger and more interesting animals in this fish tank after the fish do leave us. And so...

So the way you see it, Sam wants the fish tank to be his realm so that he can put whatever he wants in there, and he's redefining these shrimps as non-pets to get out of the a reasonable spousal expectation of consultation on all new pets in the home, because he wants that, he wants that watery world to be his watery world. And you take issue with that because as a former mermaid, the ocean is your natural home. It is your world. That's right. And also your world within the world of our home. Under the sea. But it's also as your expectation as a spouse is that you would be consulted on new animals in the home, correct? That's, that's pretty much my argument. Sam? Yes.

Do you want the fish tank to be your world and your world alone? I've listened to your show before, and so I know that you ask us, what are we asking for? And I'm thinking of this kind of like a range of things, where at one end it would just be, you know, some sense of, I don't know, vindication is strong. But, you know, I don't want to have to have this yoke around my head that, yeah, I broke my lie to my promise to my wife and I brought home a pet. You know, let's just have an external validation that I didn't. break my word. But on the other end of the extreme, like really, if I could have what I wanted, you know, yeah, I'd love to consider the tank to be the pet. And then whatever I do with the tank so long as I am really solely responsible, then I can just do whatever I want. Yeah, but that's,

but you're not solely responsible. You went out of town, a ghost shrimp died, and it fell to Leora to dispose of it and explain it to the kids. Yeah. And to, yeah, that's, that happened. Leora, do the kids think that the shrimps were pets? I think we have some evidence, One kid does and one kid doesn't. I believe we have some audio evidence on this very subject that you submitted to the court. Jennifer Marmer, will you please play the audio file called Our Shrimp Pets question mark? Eliana, our shrimp pets? The shrimp that are living in our fish tank that Papa got to clean the fish tank.

Do you think that those are our pets? Yes? You're nodding your head, yes? Yeah. Okay. And do they have names? Yes. What are their names?

Okay. One of them died. Shrimpie? Okay. Shrimpie died? Shrimpie died. Okay. Yeah, I remember.

And Frogonia. And Frogonia. Okay. Did not die. No, we don't think so. I haven't, frankly, I haven't seen him for at least three weeks. Adina, are shrimp pets? They can be if you call them pets, but clearly they aren't.

Why? Because they have a job to do. And if they were pets, they just swim around and think to get, take care of. Wow. Okay. Thank you. Seems like we have a classic hung jury there. I'm honestly not that confident about this evidence.

I feel like Leora could have been leading the witnesses there. This could be like that podcast where they use psychics to let nonverbal kids talk to their parents. And then it's the most popular podcast in the world. Yeah. That last voice seemed particularly well coached by you, Sam. The last voice I heard. I just want to say, I understand why one shrimp was named Shrimpie. It's great name.

for a shrimp. Why did your children name the other shrimp, Frogonia, which is, of course, the ancestral homeland of all frogs? I was a kid. I always had frogs and salamanders and turtles and worked at the National Zoo, taking care of the poisoned dart frogs. And I had a realm of plastic frogs that lived at the creek and Rock Creek Forest. The realm was called Frogonia. And so that's been my moniker ever since I was a little boy. And I guess they, they, they carried it through just... I was just joking about the ancestral realm of frogs. I didn't realize there was an actual mythical place in your personal cosmology.

That's right. And then it was in Rock Creek Park. That's right. In our nation's capital. Did you name the shrimp frogonia? Nope. My kids named it. But they must have, it wasn't just...

Your children aren't psychic. They've heard the term before. No, they've been coached. It would be very scary. And it sounds like you still have... a love of amphibians. Is that right? I do. Yeah, very much. I had my druthers. I'd put a tiger salamander arrested in the larval phage phase in that fish tank. Sure. I think everyone would agree with you. If I had my druthers, I'd also get a tiger salamander at its laram. What are you

talking about now? You frogonian? What is it you want to put in your tank this time? Out here, they call them mud puppies. Okay. What are they though? If a tiger salamander, finds a body of water, which is present year-round, but not flowing year-round, so there's no fish. Then it stays arrested in its larval phase, and it looks like an axoloddle. Like it's got big gills and it grows to be 10 inches long. I'd love to have one of those. Go out to catch one of those in Ramaphals and bring it back. And I looked up the law to do that. You can do it, but for bait, only for bait. And so then we could say it's not a pet. It's just future bait, and it would be totally legal. Sorry. You said 10 inches.

I need a bigger tank. Thanks for putting that out. Yeah, that's a pretty big larvae. So you want to get a tiger salamander in its larval stage in the natural world, bring it back to a bigger tank that you have yet to acquire. Would this tiger and arrest its development at its larval stage so that it looks like an axolodal, but isn't an axelotl, and by axelotl, I mean a creepy ghost eel with blind eyes and big, disgusting frills coming out of its neck.

And by the way, I love axolotles. Don't, don't at me axelot of people. Is this your desire? That is my desire. And because you can only hunt them as bait in the state of New Mexico, they also would not qualify as pets. And so you're going to sneak them in under the radar? Yeah.

Yes, Judge. Let me take a look at this creature. I believe you sent in a sample photograph. Oh, did I? Well, maybe we have one. I don't know. I'm looking at one now. Will this represent what you're hoping to get?

I'd like to get one of those small enough to fit in my 10-gallon tank, and then if it grew to be its full 10 inches, then yeah, I'd like to get a bigger tank for it. Leora, is part of your conflict here that you would prefer that if a pet enters the home, it would be a pet that not. not just a cold-hearted frog-feeding nerd dad would enjoy, like one with fur that could be your friend? Honestly, yes.

What kind of pet would you like to have, Leor? I just want a dog. I want a big, dumb dog that will cuddle us and go on walks. Well, this thing doesn't look cuddly to you? I mean, it's amphibious, right? It's amphibious. Isn't it? Sam, couldn't you take it into bed with you and it would live?

It's aquatic. It's fully aquatic. Oh, so it's not amphibious. You can't have it out in the... No, you have to arrest it in its larval state because otherwise it'll climb right into bed with you. Oh, yeah, right. There you go. How do your actual children who are in the midst of actual childhood feel about a dog and do they have a dream of a pet?

Yes, to all. They would love to have an axoladol. They would love to have a dog. They have enjoyed all of the animals that Sam has brought into our home. And based on that recording, and, you know, it's been a while since I've been a parent of a younger child. So my instincts are a little off. But based on that recording, it sounds like your kids are about 21, 22 years old. That's right.

They are four and a half and seven. Can they help once Blubb and Rosie mysteriously disappear? Well, I can't be counted on for that. I think the seven-year-old is close. I think, you know, acoladals and these kinds of animals, they eat little bugs. They eat blood worms. You have to feed them in a certain way. And you have to clean their tanks in a certain way.

It's really like the tank cleaning that I object to, I would say. Let's just say, Leora, I just want to know the extent of your, of the phragonia that you want to build in your home. Oh, I haven't let myself dream like that. We like to say, I was married to myself. What would I do? Yeah, tree frogs. I'd love to get some tree frogs.

The tiger salamanders. I don't need more than that right now. Really? If you were married to yourself, you would just stop at tree frogs and tiger salamanders? You know you want a freaking iguana. Yeah, come on. Well, it was my first job working at the National Zoo, taking care of the poison dart frogs.

And only a part of the collection is on display, and they've got a big breeding program. And it was my job to be flipping over these half coconuts to see, you know, what eggs were there and raising the polywogs to go see when they were ready to ship off to zoos around the world. And I don't know if you've ever been to the National Zoo, but they've got this amazing space where you can be inside of a little indoor jungle. You're inside of a little indoor jungle. And it's hot and humid and the animals, the parrots are flying around. I mean, if we're really talking, money's no limit, married to myself, having a greenhouse where the animals are just kind of running free like that, that would be a real dream for me. And then what were you doing?

You were tipping over coconut shells looking for frogs? Were you playing the shell game there with poison frogs? Yeah, yeah. Well, they're poisonous because of what they eat. But yeah, we're taking inventory to see which ones we're ready to ship off. How old were you when you were working at the National Zoo? 16. 16 years old.

What a childhood. Or I should say young adulthood. That's incredible. Yeah, it was a good job. How many frogs did you lick and how high did you get? That's college stuff. Well, answer the question. No, I've never done that before.

I think it works, though. Learie, did you know Sam when he was 16 and dealing with poisonous frogs? No. I knew Sam when he was 22 and still really enamored with nature in the world. Would you agree with me, Leora, that Sam is pretty adorable? 100%. I mean, there's nobody like him. I don't know.

I agree. I don't know anyone who's having this kind of conversation. I thought this was going to be a podcast beating up on me for doing all these things. Like stupid husbands doing this thing. Well, you did do a stupid thing. Sam, you did a stupid thing. I'll give you this, right? You made a mistake.

You brought home a fish tank without talking to your spouse about it. Right? You acknowledged that, right? Oh, yeah, I do. Now you're trying to get all these other animals through on technicalities that they're all working animals or whatever. All right, let's get down to tacks that are brass. You, Sam, would like a bigger tank once these two glowfish pass on

and follow Shrimpy the Ghost Trimp into the watery grave. The big atomic bowling lanes in the sky. Absolutely. And that's what you want, and you want me to endorse it, right? That's the maximalist version. The minimalist version is just, I just won't want to have to have this yoke around my neck, that I lied to my wife. What is the yoke?

What is the yoke around your neck? The idea that I said no more pets, and then this feeling that I came home with a pet, but I didn't come home with a filtration system. I just want some external validation that. A filtration system. that did not work, but it was the intention. And actually, let me have another go at that, too. Maybe it's shrimp, more shrimp or the snails.

Leora, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? I'm looking for the status quo with the tank. I really would prefer not to have a larger tank. And I would really like Sam to call me from the pet store. That's about it. You don't want me to ban Sam from the pet store? No, I don't. I want a call from, I want a call from the pet store, and I don't want a bigger tank in my house.

What does it mean to you to have all these fish and shrimps and snails? What are you getting out of this? No, you're asking that question, too. Definitely a nostalgic part of it. I had a lot of that stuff growing up. And so sharing a little bit of my child. childhood worldview through my kids and seeing them enjoy the same things. Like there's definitely some vicarious joy in that.

Part of it is having its decoration. It's like interesting fun decoration. Where is it in your home? In the living room. How do you feel about that, Leora, the tank in the living room? I initially felt upset about that because we had to rearrange a lot of the furniture to accommodate the fish. but it does look nice, I must admit.

You just threw your case away. You threw it into the trash. You just flushed your case down the toilet with your childhood fish. Maybe. Why did you have to move so much furniture around? It doesn't seem like such a big tank to me. Sam wanted the fish to be at the children's eye level. And so we had to purchase a special bench for the fish tank and move the bookshelf.

I don't think it was that. I think we just had to take everything off of the bookshelves and move those over because they were so heavy. But you're not asking for putting this tank somewhere else at this point. You're okay with where it is. I just don't want the tank to grow in size with, yeah, that's it. I don't want the tank to grow inside. You said that the kids like these fish, do you think that they would like this weird third stage guild navigator that Sam wants to put in your home? Yes.

They probably would like it. They probably would like it. No, they definitely would like it. I'm just asking questions. If there were a second larger tank, Sam, do you have an idea where in the home that would go? In my mind, it was going to be a replacement for Blub and Rosie and it would live in the same spot. How do you feel about that, Leuer? I don't want it taking up any more space in our living room.

I feel like it already does. I really feel like we're rocketing towards a Tracy Morgan lifestyle. there's going to be sharks in this house soon enough. Yeah. Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I am going to go into my giant float tank full of the spice melange and fold space and time with my with my extra sensory enhanced brain. And I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

I was never here. This conversation never happened. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sam, do you know? what the verdict is going to be? I don't know what the verdict is going to be. I think it's not that big of an ask to get some snails or some more shrimp. I really wish that you had your trumpet with you so that if you lost, you could play taps.

I can't. I'm not good enough for that. Leora, what do you think is going to happen? I think it depends whether this is a question of, you know, I really didn't want this case to come off as like, you know, Sam's being a disrespectful husband. But I think it's reasonable to ask for a heads up about animals coming into my home. And I mean, to be fair, he was being a disrespectful husband when he showed up with a fluorescent fish tank for your living room. But this is a case about whether.

shrimp are worthy of a discussion with one's spouse. That's in my mind a yes and it's a no. So it's hard for me to say. Well, that's why we've got Judge John Hodgman. We'll be back with his decision in just a moment. Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case. What do you got going on that our audience might need to know about? Well, Jesse, as I've alluded to, I will be leaving my summer chambers here at WERU to retire. to my autumnal chambers, and I look forward to joining you all there. But it is bittersweet to leave WERU as it is at the end of every summer. So, Joel, man, I just want to say thank you again for hosting us. Thank you. And, uh, great, thanks, Joel. But also, that's the same tone that Joel took

when his first child was born. But Joel, uh, while summer is coming to end, your resident, on the porch of the Pentagoet Inn and Castine, Maine does not end until what? October, right? Yeah, first of October. So, five more, five more to go. Five more to go. So if you're coming up to Maine in the fall, and I hope that you would consider it, because it's a beautiful time to visit this beautiful state, please go on Tuesday evening to the Pentaguit Inn and Castine,

and you can see Joel Mann laying down bass with the night and day jazz trio. It's a lot of fun. I've heard you play, haven't I, Joel? Yeah, but you're hiding behind a bush, I think. Yeah, well, I didn't want to pay the money to sit on the porch, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. And as well, also please continue to listen to and support WERU. It's a wonderful community radio station like nothing else that needs your help, especially since the Corporation Public Broadcasting has been demolished.

Jesse Thorne, what's going on in your world? Well, I'm in the midst of moving as this show is released, and one of the consequences of me moving from my Victorian home to a home built in 1919. is that I am putting so much stuff, like my most specialist stuff, just right into the Put This On Shop, because I can't bring it with me. It doesn't work in my new house. I like Victorian paintings and all kinds of things, all going into the Put This On Shop at Put This Onshop.com. In addition to all the regular stuff that we're putting in to celebrate the fourth quarter and Christmas is coming up, holidays are coming up. So go to Put This Onshop.com. Check out all the new

amazing things we have there. That's my antique house goods and clothing and so on and so forth shop. And use the code justice. We'll give you 10% off whatever you buy. So you're saying if I go to the Put This On Shop and I find some cufflings or some Alf cards or some pocket squares or a fedora or any of the other wonderful hand curated things that you have picked yourself, Jesse. And I've got a lot of those things because I love going to put this on shop. But if I go there now and I use the code justice, I'm going to get 10% off order? That's it put this on shop.com, John. Use that code justice. Well, I wasted a lot of money over the years without using that code, so I'll go do something about that now. We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the

courtroom and presents his verdict. Sam and Leorre, you may be seated. So for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, here again is the obscure cultural reference, see if you can guess it. Tori and his crew were racing the Skagin-Round Regatta and Tori's sailboat Salta In 1956, there was no wind. The chances of victory were gone. The crew was depressed. They needed to cheer them up. Tori searched the galley.

There wasn't much but enough. He found eggs, oil, shrimp, dill, lemon, and a loaf of bread, hocus, pocus, toasts. Sagan. Leora, can you guess? What came to mind for me was, Tippy long stocking, but that's long, that's long before. Tippy long stocking? Yeah, I hear you.

Long before anything. anything in the... I'm going to write down Pippi Longstocking. I think that's a great guess. And if you're watching the YouTube, you can see I'm writing it down right now. I'm not joking around.

What about you, uh, Sam? Got a guess. Let's go for the box car kids. Cool. Talking about a blast from my own parenting past. The box car children. Series of novels written sometime in the early 20th century about a bunch of orphans living in a box car

and having adventures. That's right. I like that. I'm going to write that down too, but guess what? All guesses are wrong. The Leora, you weren't as far off as Sam because Pibby Longstocking is a Swedish children's tale. And in Sweden, there was a very famous chef and television food personality named Tori Retman. W-R-E-T-M-A-N. I'm probably mispronouncing all of his name. But forgive me, Swedes in the audience.

We appreciate you very much. Though we are perhaps less appreciative of what he invented toast Skagen, which is toast with a very specific kind of shrimp salad on top. Tiny shrimps mixed with mayonnaise, a little sour cream, and dill and lemon. That is called Skagenrora. And Skagen Rora is named for Skagen, which is actually in Denmark. It is nothing to do with Sweden. just happens to do with the fact that Tori Retman was sailing around the Danish town of Skagen

when he invented Skagen Rora on Toaster, Toast Skaggin. One of the national dishes of Sweden or so Wikipedia would have me believe in it came to my mind and taste buds a couple of weeks ago when on a listener's suggestion, we made Tunbrodrula, which is Skagin, that is shrimp salad. You add it to a hot dog along with mashed potatoes and put it in a hot dog. flatbread, and that is Tunbredrula. Probably I'm also pronouncing that incorrectly. If you haven't seen me making it on our social media,

go to Judge John Hodgman on TikTok or Instagram, or any place you get your reels or shorts or whatever they are. It is, Joel, would you agree? It's truly gross? Truly. It tasted pretty good, though, I must say. I refuse to eat it. Yeah, well, also, I did it.

I made it in a particularly wrong way, primarily to enrage people for engagement, because I didn't wrap it in a traditional Swedish flatbread. I wrapped it in a cold tortilla. And also I threw that hot dog in the W-E-R-U microwave, just straight on the rotating plate. Nothing in between. I just microwaved it up.

It was disgusting. But the actual thing I'm told is very delicious. And so please try Tunbrodrula. And thanks again to Jamie Loftus for joining us on that hot dog docket. That was a lot of fun. But now we are in the present. And in the present, there is no more talk of hot dogs, No more talk of tiny edible shrimp.

We're now talking about ghost shrimp. I feel the need to share with you, first of all, Sam, since you're a herpetological enthusiast, that as I drove here in the middle of the day, walking across Route 15, I saw a turtle. Isn't that funny? Just coincidence. Midday turtle road crossing.

and I flashed my lights at all the oncoming traffic to let them know, slow down. Well, you know, you flash your lights to let them know that there's probably a speed trap there, but my hope was that they were going to slow down. And my greater hope is that when I go back on that road for the last time this year, driving from WROU back to my unnamed coastal town, that that turtle will not be flattened on the road, but living somewhere in the world. perhaps for you to find and capture it and put it in a tank. I really have to thank you, Sam and Leora,

for introducing us and the world to the phrase that you have come up with in your own marriage. If I were married to myself, I would X, Y, Z. That's great. That's a really, really funny thing to say. But I think it's also something that offers a lot of insight into marriage and other kind of life partnerships, right? You know, like, it is good for individual spouses to remember who they are and were as individuals long before they met and, and to remind themselves like, well, if I were married to myself, I would do X, Y, Z, because it's good to tune into those things.

And the second half of that is, of course, I'm not married to myself, and therefore I won't do X, Y, Z. I might do X or Y or Z in consultation with my spouse, because you have chosen to share a life together. I think it's a great thing for people who are, you know, romantically partnered or simply cohabitating. Well, mostly romantically partnered, I suppose. If you are sharing your life with someone for a full-time, ideally lifetime commitment to remember, like, well, if I were alone, I would do it this way. That's okay to have that fantasy. or to tune into whatever that individual happiness is, because you are, after all, a whole human being in your own right,

no matter what your piece of paper says. But then, obviously, the corollary is you're not married to yourself, Sam. You aren't married to yourself. And you know this, too, because if you were married to yourself, you've already admitted you're going to create a terrarium in your backyard. a massive, you're going to recreate the National Zoo and that incredible 16-year-old summer when you were putting poison frogs under coconut shells

or whatever it is you were trying to explain to me. You appreciate that the past is the past and the present is now and the present includes the people that you love so very much. Leora and your children. And I guess, I guess Blub and Rosie too, but you don't love them so much that you aren't wishing for their death

because you are. You have acknowledged simply by being here that as a spouse you made an error in judgment. And that error is that you brought home a fish tank without consulting,

Leora. You indulged in her indulgence of you and got to keep that fish tank and fill it with fish and water, two things that go great together, in a prime location in your home, which required a lot of moving things around.

And Leora had one request for you, which was, please don't bring home any more pets without consulting me first. And you know, you know, and I'm not saying this with prejudice or anger or anything else. you know that trying to redefine shrimp as a filtration system that's a bad faith workaround.

I don't think that there was any great crime. You went out for snails. Snails were agreed to. Snails weren't available. An option was offered to you. The ghost shrimp are small. The ghost shrimp are transparent. One of the ghost shrimp is a true ghost now.

everything happened and it was okay. But you can appreciate why Leora might consider the algae-coated interior of this tank to be something of a slippery slope. Because basically you announced, I want to go out into nature and grab a 10-inch larval salamander and add that to my house.

And she has a hesitation around this. If you were married to yourself, you could do all of this and it would be fine, but you're not married to yourself. Obviously, you're married to someone you love very much, and she is very much in love with you. And so far, you've gotten away with it, but heretofore, forever after you know. I'm not saying you can't get your weird tiger salamander, although I'm really not sure, mostly because of my own ignorance, how I feel about the ethics of taking something from nature

and putting it into a tank. And I know that the state of New Mexico allows catching these things for bait, but I'm not sure about capturing a wild animal and putting it in a tank. I would have to encourage you just for your own fun and information to do a lot of research into that concept.

Before enacting, it? Well, maybe never enacting it. Let these fish live their lives and enjoy them. And when they pass away, naturally, you can have a conversation with Leora about changing the setup and incorporating some weird-looking salamander into your life. And by that time, maybe the kids will be a little bit older. I mean, I don't know how long these glowfish are really going to live. But, you know, maybe the kids will be a little bit older. Maybe they'll be able to take care of it a little bit. Maybe it'll be a new place for this tank that isn't in the living room. Maybe there's a more private space or a den or something. You could put it in next to your giant jellyfish tank.

That's a reference to an old Judge John Hodgman episode. Good one. But all of these things are part of and parcel of a conversation you have to have with Leora. When we are in a lifetime relationship, we remain individuals. There are realms that are unto ourselves, but I'm going to say that aquariums and pet ownership are not part of those realms. That has to be part of a conversation, a full, engaged, and informed conversation. Point is, do ghost shrimp not count as pets simply because they are working animals? No. In the letter of the law, perhaps, but in the spirit of the law, you should have learned your lesson by the time the ghost shrimp came into the possibility

that you need to consult at every level with everything that goes into this tank. Because frankly, I think Leora will probably say yes to a lot. But it's not fair to ask her to say yes to a lot without even being asked. So my verdict is this. These shrimp are slash were pets. We don't know whether there is even one. that is still alive. It's kind of a Schradinger's ghost shrimp situation.

Snails were approved of, go to a more reputable pet store and get the snails you need so long as Leora still offers an okay for that. Let the delicate ecosystem of your aquarium thrive amidst the delicate ecosystem of your and every marriage, which relies on conversation and communication, and the delicate balance of both individual needs and family needs.

And when it is time, when all the snails and glowfish are dead, and you are looking for a more science fictional creature to put in a larger tank, let that be a conversation. But for now, shrimp repets, this is the sound of Joel's grandfather's gavel, which I will return to him. I am not a shrimp. I'm making bronze. Let's go, let you come on.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Leora, how are you feeling about this verdict? I'm feeling moved and seen, and like I'm looking forward to a lifetime of conversations. How about you, Sam? I am humbled, but I know what I need to do next, which is to ask permission for some more shrimp in sales.

No more shrimps. No more shrimps. The shrimps did not work out. for you. Get the snails. That's what they're there for. Go to an aquarium store, dude. What? They got to have aquarium stores there, right? You're living in a city. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sam, Leora, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was so great to talk to you and good luck with your dog. Thank you. See you in a decade. Thanks.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. Hey, Jesse Thorne, speaking of cases, I guess we don't need anymore, right? We've got all the cases we'll ever need. We always need cases at maximum fund.org slash JJHO. Yeah, we've been hearing cases from a lot of cohabitating couples lately. So I'm asking for some cases from cohabitating non-couples, what you might call roommates, flatmates, apartment mates, mates. Oh, I thought you just meant throuples. Yeah, and throuples as well, please. Yeah. We're not above a tripartite case. No, what is the most unhinged thing your housemate keeps in

the fridge? What was the biggest fight you and your roommates ever had over a piece of furniture that someone found on the street? Did your college dorm mate ever tried to identify you blindly from the sound of your urine? That's a true story. Jonathan Colton came back to his college dorm and was using the bathroom and he heard through the door his sweetmate Aaron go Jonathan? Jonathan's like yeah and he goes I recognized you by the sound of your urine

Ha ha Send us all your... Is this what's going on at Ivy League universities? Is this what I missed out at in public school? It's just people listening to each other pee. Send us all your flatmate, sweetmate, floormate, roommate, roommate stories, anything you got, your hot takes, your controversial opinions.

You don't even have to have someone else in mind. Let us know what's going on in your head by writing to us at Hodgman at maximum fund.org. That email goes directly to me and I read all the cases myself. Or you can fill out the forum at maximum fund.org slash JJHO. We really do need your cases because if we don't have them, we can't hear them. You know what, if I know one thing about all you Gen Ziers, all you Gen Zers out there, I'm, of course, a millennial, John and Gen Xer. But, yeah, that's right.

All you gen Zers out there, I know you got really complicated cohabitation romantic situations. I know you all have five different levels of seven different people that are your romantic partners. I want to hear some disputes about that. Why aren't we getting any thruple emails? Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. I want to know about your FWBs. I want to know about your ethical polyamories. Send them to us.

I know that you all are getting in fights over board games specifically. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. We're going to have swift justice in just a second. Our thanks to Reddit toward Jennifer's friend for naming this week's episode, Prawn and Order. Is that a person on Reddit or is that just Jennifer's friend? That's my friend. Oh, that was Jennifer's real life friend.

Did you make your friend register for Reddit to submit the They're already on Reddit but I happened to be talking to them Just it like like friends do About shrimp and why it was relevant to my Just remember shrimp work is work Yeah I made a nice little movie poster that I'll share on social media Of the Carol the movie Carol movie poster

but it's called coral for coral shrimp. Just like when John was in that movie, Shrimpaline. Making up a song about Shrimp Aline. Speaking of social media and Jennifer Marmer, for that matter, our YouTube comment of the week comes from our recent schoolhouse dock it on the subject of back-to-school issues and specifically the cool S, quote unquote, cool S, that all the baddies draw in elementary school.

Don't know what we're talking about. Go back to our schoolhouse docket to watch it on YouTube or listen to it wherever you get your podcast. But in the meantime, we had a wonderful comment from Patrick Parker 7464, which is the YouTube comment of the week,

saying, I reject any definition of batty that excludes Jennifer Marmer, a certified batty and respectfully, a stone fox. How about that, Jennifer Marmer? Jennifer Marmer is, I'm blushing so much, she muted herself. I muted myself. I forgot how to add my video.

And I also forgot about this comment entirely. And just coincidentally, I'm going to take off my headphones for an amazing reveal. For those of you who are not watching the YouTube, Jennifer Marmer is wearing her cool S earrings that she mentioned on that specific episode. That is a cool S. Jennifer Marmer. That is a cool S as in Stone Cold. Fox. Thank you. John, I have a cool-ass revelation to make of my own self.

Yeah, what is it? On my other show, Jordan Jessica. Yeah. My friend Jordan Morris. Sure. We have had a months-long quest to find these two children who sold me a comic book at the flea market called Stankus the rat. Yeah.

It's about a rat who's who travels into the sewers through a water fountain. Yep. And vanquishes his. enemies and rescues his mother using the power of his stank and specifically his extraordinary farts. And we got a copy of this stankist. We couldn't find these stankest boys anywhere. A listener found their mom on LinkedIn.

And we finally, just the other week, got the stankest boys to come in to Jordan Jesse go. And I just want to credit the many. any crossover Jordan Jesse Go, Judge John Hodgman listeners, who noticed upon our release of the hottest streetware release of the year, which of course is Stankus X.J.G.G.O., available at MaxFundstore.com. They noticed that the hand-drawn logo for Stankas, the Rat, as drawn by the Stankas boys, has a cool S.

Cool S. And specifically it has a cool S that a rat took a bite out of, presumably, because it's made a cheese. Sure. Which, of course, is what Stankis is famous for cutting. Cutting that cheese and taking a bite. Uh-huh. If you don't know what we're talking about vis-a-vis cool s, as I say, you can go check it out on our YouTube channel at Judge John Hodgman Pod, where you can see Jennifer Marmer's cool S earrings and learn all about the cool S from our schoolhouse docket.

And while you're there, please subscribe to the YouTube channel. It really helps people discover the show. And if you want, you can leave a comment. And perhaps that'll be YouTube comment of the week. Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode recorded a catharsis media in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Technical director Mark Acosta, James Harrell on DIT in camera, production sound mixer, Shiloh Aldrede, and producer Candice New.

This is our last week with Joel Mann at WERU for the summer. Thank you, Joel, for everything over these last few months. wish you guys will. It's not somewhere without Joel. Megan Razati runs our social media, the podcast edited by AJ McKeon, our video editor Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small questions with quick judgments. Andrew in Salt Lake City says, when I eat a banana, I always remove the strings. They're gross, they're weird, they're not even food.

They're part of the appeal. My girlfriend says, I'm being wasteful and missing part of the banana experience. Who's right? Well, congratulations, Andrew in Salt Lake City, because you have a girlfriend who's a true freak. Wow. Call her Miss Jackson because she next to. Yeah, that's amazing. But Andrew, you eat your banana any way you want. That's swift justice. Remember to submit those cases, maximum fund.org slash j-j-h-o. And we'll talk to you next time on the judge, John podcast maximum fun a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows supported directly by you