Judge John Hodgman - Public Befriender

Episode Date: October 25, 2017

Heather brings the case against her husband, Larry. Heather says that when they are out running errands, Larry spends too much time chatting with whomever he makes eye contact. Larry wants Heather to embrace people in her community more freely. Thank you to Tim Mallos for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, public befriender. Heather brings the case against her husband, Larry. Heather says that when they're out running errands, Larry spends too much time chatting with whomever he meets. Larry says Heather should embrace people in her community more freely. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Fairly or unfairly, many people are tried in life. The mistake people make is that they think the trial is a sign of failure. It's not. It's only a doorway that leads to who you really are, which is to say a litigant in the court of Judge John Hodgman. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite his cold northe or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite his cold Northeastern heart? I do.

I do. Judge Hodgman? You're right, Jesse. Now I don't even want to talk to either of these nice Texans. I just want to say, how do you do? And keep walking on. But I will not. Larry and Heather, you may be seated

for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors can either of you name the piece of culture that I quoted and it was a direct quote until the very end when I made reference to the podcast as I entered the courtroom let's start with you Larry you love to chat

chat with me I do I have very little idea I'm gonna go with it's from Walden. Ah, Walden by... Henry David Thoreau. Yeah, but do you know what I heard on NPR the other day? Tell me. I think it was the anniversary of his 100th birthday or death day or something. They had a different pronunciation for Thoreau.

And they said the family pronounces it Thoreau. Did you know that? I did not, but I like it. You think public radio is having a joke on me? I'm a big fan of public radio. Good work. I'm going to call him Henry David Thoreau. We'll put that in the guest book. Of course, Foo-row. We'll put that in the guest book. Of course, Henry David Foo-row was a famous New Englander who built a cabin on Walden Pond in Concord, Massachusetts, in order to experience solitude. Not often recorded that his cabin was about a five-minute walk from his friend's house, Ralph Waldo Emerson, where he would frequently go to get

pie to bring back to his cabin. Did he just steal it from the window sill hobo style? Pretty much. But I think that Emerson was in on it. He's like, here comes old neckbeard. Get the pie out. He's trying to be self-sufficient. Let him

think he stole it. All right, Heather. now it's time for you to make a guess. Well, I guess Walden, what are you going to guess? Yes. I do not know, unfortunately, so I'm going to go with my prepared guess, which is The Passage by Justin Cronin, in which introvert and weird only child, Amy Harper Belafonte, saves the world from the brink of extinction. I think you're talking about Vacationland by John Hodgman. Yes. True stories from painful beaches.

Very similar. No, but Heather, I like our new segment, Book Talk with Heather. I've never heard of this book. Tell me more. Oh, my gosh. You've never heard of this? No. Oh,. Oh, my gosh. You've never heard of this? No. Oh, it's fantastic. Yes, you must read it.

I believe they're working on a television series as well. It's my understanding. Heather, this could be your only chance to secure the career you've always wanted. Local public radio, public affairs show book critic. Dare to dream. Justin Cronin is a literature professor at Rice University, and I've seen him speak a couple of times. He's fantastic. Check it out.

And the name of the book is The Passage. The Passage is the first one. The second is The Twelve, and the third is The City of Mirrors. So it's a trilogy. So am I presuming that this is a piece of speculative fiction, science fiction, fantasy genre? It is. And it spans 1,000 years. That's a lot of years.

It's a lot of years, but it's great. Well, I encourage all of our Judge John Hodgman listeners to check out the book that Heather has buzz marketed since I have never heard of it. I'm so sorry. No, that's all right. Look, put some money in another author's pocket. Also, check out Vacationland by John Hodgman, bit.ly slash painful beaches for pre-order. Or now, I think it's probably available in stores or about to be,

so check it out. But yes, because I've never heard of this book, it is unlikely that I chose it. It would be a profoundly obscure cultural reference to me. So we can say that one guess is definitely wrong. We'll go over, what did you say again, Larry Walden? Yes. Well, that's wrong too. So not only both, but all guesses

are wrong. Would I give you a hint if I gave you another quote? Lay it on us. Yeah. How about this? Hey, hey! Now don't tell me you don't remember me, because I sure as heck fire remember you. That does ring a bell.

It rings a bell, right? Ned Ryerson. Needle Nose Ned. Ned the Head. Come on, buddy. Case Western High. Ned Ryerson. I did the whistling belly button trick at the high school talent show.

Bing. Did you get it now? Okay. Groundhog's Day. Right. Bing. All right. So, who is the character ned ryerson who is the actor

who played him you know i think i've heard you reference him previously in another episode and i think he recently passed away i can't i don't know um you know he's a character actor you've seen in a hundred different things but i couldn't tell you his name. Wait a minute. Now I'm doing a very frantic Google search to see if that's true. No, he did not pass away, I'm glad to say. I made that up then. Oh, my heart was beating pretty fast there. My celebration was about to become an in-memoriam

for Stephen Tobolowsky. Stephen Tobolowsky. Great character actor who played Ned Ryerson in Groundhog Day and has a second and very successful career as a storyteller and writer. He has a podcast called The Tobolowsky Files that's been going on for a long time, and he tells very funny stories that often are very deep. And that particular quote was from his first book,

which is called The Dangerous Animals Club. And I've heard this guy talk. He's amazing. And let me make a recommendation to you, Heather. Yes, sir. Check out any book by Stephen Tobolowsky, My Adventures with God, The Dangerous Animals Club. And there's a third one that I can't remember at the moment.

So use your machine and look it up, everybody. I absolutely will. I've got no book recommendations for you, Larry. Sorry. So you are a maths teacher there in Texas? I teach maths indeed. Okay. And what do the students call you? Mr. Larry? Mr. Richmond. Do they say, well, you've revealed your last name. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. That'll be fine. I'm pretty sure that they will be eagerly listening to this podcast. Are you a cool teacher?

Are you one of the cool teachers that the kids love? Yes, is the answer. Do they call you Mr. R? Yeah, you can answer, Heather. No, I'm not cool like that for sure. I try to be pretty firm with them, but they understand that I'm interested in them, but I express my, I guess, love for them

through the mathematics. I want them to come and work hard every day and improve on the math. If they can just focus on getting better at the math for a little while, then that's my gift to them. And if that's cool to them- I appreciate that. This is not your annual review, by the way. This is a podcast. Don't worry, you get to keep your job. I'm not worried about keeping my job. I was looking for one when I found this one. But in terms of my students, I think most of them probably, they probably think I'm a decent human being. Heather, is he a cool teacher? He is. Yes. They really admire him. They look up to him. And does he chat with him all the time? Absolutely. Yes, he definitely does. Does he ever sit backwards in

his chair with his arms over the back? Yeah. He does not do that. No, he's standing 100% of the time. Doesn't sound that cool to me. Heather, you guys are married. How long have you been married? It will be eight years on Valentine's Day. Oh, that's nice. Which is also my birthday. Happy, oh, I see.

Happy double anniversary. A little bit on the nose, but I love it. It says here you live outside of dallas we do southeast of dallas about um 100 miles it's um relative town about 12 14 000 all right so we have your first and last name and now we have your coordinates good job mr r heather what do you do down there southeast of Dallas by whatever? We teach at the same school.

I teach high school English. Oh, very nice. And did you guys meet as colleagues or what? We did. We met at our contract signing, actually. Also on Valentine's Day, I presume. No, but that would be... Pretty standard in the state of Texas.

Yes. No, we met at the beginning of the school year, signing our contract. So we've taught together my entire teaching career, 10 years at two different schools. Well, this could not be more adorable. So Heather, tell me why you hate your husband all of a sudden. hate your husband all of a sudden. Okay, so essentially, like I said, we've taught together 10 years. And we live in the same community in which we teach. And so when we... Don't worry, I've got it. I've got it on Google Satellite right now. I can see both of you. Great. Keep going. Keep going. And so, as you might imagine, it is very difficult for us to leave our homes and not run into either a current or a former student or a parent, which can sometimes be a little tedious and make tasks. Because they're boring and you hate your neighbors and you hate your students and everything?

I do. He doesn't. Oh, well, that's candid. No, I don't hate anyone. It's just that I am definitely more introverted and I'm pretty task oriented. And so my goal is to go in the store and get my items and return home. All right. So what kind of store are we talking about here?

Like a grocery store? A stationary store? Sheet music? I think no matter what kind of store it is, I just want to thank you for describing your trip there like you were teaching a robot to do it. Give me an example of a store you go into where you and Larry are just, you know,

buying your Piana sheet music for Bicycle Built for Two and all of a sudden get cornered by a student or a parent or whatever. Like, what store are you going into? Generally, that's going to be the big box chain stores. Okay. So what happens? Do me a little role play. What does Larry say? I'll be a parent, all right. Okay. So what happens? Do me a little role play. What does Larry say? I'll be a parent,

all right? Okay. And you be Larry. Okay, so you make eye contact with... You're the parent, or I'm the parent? I'm the parent. You're Larry. I'm Larry. Okay. So I make eye contact... Who am I? Quick question. Who am I? Jesse,

you're head of security in this store. Head of security. And then Jennifer is who? Jennifer Marmer. Yeah. She's an efficiency consultant that's been hired to observe checkout procedures. Yeah. And she's got like cool, but slightly stern eyeglasses and her hair's up in a bun.

That's right. slightly stern eyeglasses and her hair's up in a bun. That's right. And we've all been trapped in this big box store for five years because the earth has become uninhabitable. Oh, wow. What happened? Well,

you're going to have to ask what's the name of your favorite author again? Justin Cronin. Justin Cronin. Cause he's, he's been in the science fiction and fantasy tales. I'm here in a fake quarter law trying to run a role play. So I make eye contact with you. I walk over.

There you are. Hey, Mr. R. It's me, John. I'm Bobby's dad. It doesn't necessarily happen like that. All right. Tell me how it happens. Really what would happen is the parents or the students don't necessarily approach us.

Because they, I mean, they will sometimes, but they respect your privacy, generally speaking. So it's just that Larry doesn't respect your privacy. Exactly. So normally a smile and a nod would suffice. But if I'm Larry, I'm making eye contact with this person, the parent. That's me. In our example. And so I will go over to the parent, no matter what they may be engaged in, and go over, shake their hand, and proceed to go into a monologue about said students performance in mathematics which is very nice he says lots of complimentary things it's never anything negative but he goes into you know specifics about their performance and what a great kid they are and how, you know, the student is their favorite and that sort of thing. Wait a minute. He says that to everyone? Yes.

Every parent? He's like, I just want to tell you. He doesn't literally say that they're his favorite, but he says that they're, you know. One of my best. One of his, yes, that's one of his key phrases. Boy, oh boy. But the thing is, he's not, he believes that. Like, he really does view every kid as one of his best. So it just makes the shopping trips a little, it slows them down.

And what do the parents say? Like, just please leave me alone. I'm trying to buy this cantaloupe. No, not everybody's like me. I mean, they're, you know, they usually appreciate it, I think. So, you know, I can see the value in it. Larry, do you dispute anything that your wife Heather is saying? Do you approach parents and students and other people you know and engage in some conversational jawing with them? Specifically with students, everything she said is accurate. And parents of students? Parents of students, yeah.

I make an effort to, particularly if I've never met the parent, I try to reach out to the parents in the beginning of the school year just via email or hopefully a phone call to say, hey, your kid is my student. I look forward to working with them. I think it's nice. Really, you don't just show up in their house and go, hey. I've done that before.

You wait for them to come home and you sit in their living room until they come home. Not that I've, I have knocked on doors before. I try to reach out to them in the beginning just to say, hey, I'm going to be your kid's teacher because if things do go bad, it's nice that you have some contact with them beforehand. You know, the first time you're talking to them is not what an awful thing that their child has done in your room. This is, again, this is not your annual review. You talking to a fake Internet judge and revealing personal details about where you live and what your last name is and how your wife hates all of your students. And, you know, we're just getting real here for a second.

Do you go up to people in the big box because you feel a professional obligation when you see a parent or a student to touch base with them? Or do you like it? I enjoy it, Judge, because i mean you you you have a child don't you like hearing good things about your kid well you know larry i enjoy you a lot so if you came up to me and started chatting me up yeah when i was trying to buy a pallet full of when I was trying to buy a pallet full of cheese balls or whatever. Yeah. I would enjoy a little chit chat with you.

What would you talk about with me? This, it takes 45 seconds. Judge, your daughter is in my class. She is a great kid. She's working hard. She's always respectful.

She's kind to her peers. I wish I had a hundred more students just like her. And that, that it would thank you mr r first of all i love you second of all are you sure you don't say that to all the parents because that's what i'm hearing i was listening to a podcast where i heard your wife say she hates me and that you tell all the parents this i say something like that but the thing is i truly mean it. He does. I really, truly like all of my students. I really, truly like them. So there it is. You know what?

Nice comeback. Nice comeback, Mr. R. Let's take a quick recess and hear about some of the other great shows from MaximumFun.org. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts

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Heather, that this bothers you so much? How long has this dispute been going on with you guys? It's been going on our entire marriage. And I would say it really is a difference in our worldview, honestly. He grew up in southern Louisiana in a town even smaller than where we're at currently so for instance when we are driving along our street or wherever and he sees someone walking down the road he is going to wave at that person 100 percent of the time. So it's just, he has this idea that everyone is... Wait a minute, Heather. Yes. Wait a minute.

You hate waving? Waving is bad too? Okay, let me explain. I thought you were going to say that every time if he saw someone on the street, he would pull over and go, hey, person's first name that i remember because i remember everyone's name how are you but no he's just waving and you're sitting there next to him going don't wave don't wave you're wasting time i'm trying to teach this robot to grocery shop if we're walking somewhere he will speak to them no matter who they are, even if they're a stranger. But yes, with the waving specifically, it does not matter if this person is riding a bicycle and both of their hands are occupied. If they are broken down on the side of the road and they are attempting to fix their vehicle.

I would stop and help those. Yeah, of course Larry would. I've seen you wave at those people. He just jollily sticks his hand out the window and waves at these people. So I just think that he doesn't really pay attention. What do they say in Texas about big phonies? They're all wave, no, stop and help?

I think that's a saying, yes. Heather, you and I are having a nice time talking. Do you have difficulty making small talk? Yes. You said you're introverted. Yes. I'm terrible at chit-chat, small talk. So I would not approach it.

You're great at it. Not generally. Is it that you're not good at it or you just don't want to bother with it um sometimes you know it can be either um if i am on my own time i devote a lot of time to my students and i love my students but if i'm on my own free time um i just want to handle my own business, honestly. Right. Okay. I understand. Is the only thing that's holding you in America's friendly South and keeping you from moving to America's cold and hateful Northeast that you love your husband so much? Yes. That's the only thing. Wait, you're saying you would move to a less friendly place? No, I don't know.

Maybe, probably. What's your unfriendly dream city that you would love to move to where no one knows your name? Moscow, St. Petersburg. I mean, people talk about how in New York, I've never been to New York City, but people discuss how, you know, when you're walking down the street that no one acknowledges your presence. I would be OK with that. That's fine with me. That's awesome. That sounds great.

It's not exactly the utopia you dream of occasionally we will greet each other if we have met before occasionally and when i moved to new york having previously lived my life in boston you know i had a friend charles diggs who had grown up in jeff City, Missouri, and he talked about how you smiled, waved and said hello to everyone you passed on the street. Right. Whether you knew them or not. Right. And growing up in Boston, I was like, my mind was broken in half by this information.

If someone had told me that when I was in college, I would have been like, right, but how do you know their gang affiliation before you greet them? Yeah, because if you were to say hello to someone in Boston, you're inviting a smack, and that's even within your own family.

But in New York, by comparison, I found to be extremely chatty and friendly and uh you know that's the that's the old cliche of the old uh brooklyn cab driver you gotta have some conversation going at all times that's still true i think i don't think this is exactly where you want to live so you're welcome to visit anytime and check it out. You can't stay with me, but you know. Well, maybe I'll have to rethink that then. I don't know. I'm just, I'm not opposed to certainly greeting people that I know,

but briefly and moving on. When you're out and about on your own and you're going to the old mom and pop big box and you see the parent of a student and you're by yourself, what do you do? Almost always I will simply wave at them and smile. And I might if I'm within hearing distance, I might say, hey, how are you? And continue on my way. Hey, how are you? This is over now.

Goodbye. Yes. Larry, does that strike you as rude? No, judge. I, my wife is the ultimate only child. She is an only child in both of her parents. How dare you? How dare you? I know you're an only child. I'm not a sailing only children. I'm saying my wife, listen, my wife, she's an only child. I'm not assailing only children. I'm saying my wife, listen, my wife. As an only child, how can I even believe there are other only children in the world? I know. I am the only one and the best.

It gets better. My wife, both of her parents are only children. She has no cousins, no aunts, no uncles, no anything. Right. She has books. Yeah, she has books. Yeah, exactly. And she had cats. She was like, she was born an old woman, basically.

Yes, just like all only children. And I adore that. You're saying she was basically raised in a Skinner box full of fantasy novels. That is exactly right. And so, and she talked about, you know, not really talking with the parents. She doesn't really talk with the students in the hallway. She walks at Usain Bolt sprint speed so that people will think that she's in a hurry so they won't dare stop her.

Well, all right. But you're always bringing this back down to, you know, like professional obligation. Maybe she's just trying to maintain an appropriate professional distance. She finds it difficult to engage and it makes her uncomfortable. She doesn't do the casual contact very well. She has some deep, meaningful friendships with a few people but the casual interaction is a difficult thing for her to do, thus she avoids it. Do you see this as a fault that she needs to fix?

Fault to fix, sir, that's my question, fault to fix? And as you answer this question, I want you to bear in mind, Fault to fix? And as you answer this question, I want you to bear in mind, podcast audiences are known for being extroverted. Yeah.

I don't see it as a fault to fix. It's just not her style. Yeah, I know that it's too deep and it's not something that's going to be fixed. So I embrace that about her. Yeah, you love her, right? And I would imagine every now and then she waves at you fondly. Occasionally. Yes, on the good days.

So obviously you guys have different styles. Mm-hmm. Boy, oh boy. I like that've now i feel like i'm a preacher obviously you guys have different styles and heather to me it seems like the primary complaint is that your husband larry is wasting your time in the store. Can you give me an example of a time when there were real damages caused by Larry's ceaseless chit chatting with the people in the store? Like you guys were trying to get some cornflakes or whatever, or, you know, you're going to you got to get a quick dinner back because you have kids, right? We do. Right.

And all of a sudden, what should have been a 20-minute trip has now turned into a five-hour trip, and your kids have fainted from malnutrition by the time you got home or any other thing like that. Unfortunately, I cannot give you an example in which it has been truly detrimental or caused any real damages. No. Externally. Externally, I mean. Do you know what I mean? Yes, I think so. Internally, you're damaged because your husband is not respecting the fact that you want to get on with your life.

Correct. Yes. life correct yes and how does it make you feel when you're tapping your toes there and he's going on and on with the with the students parents or whatever um it's a moderate annoyance i mean it's nothing i get truly upset about so there's no fight at all. It was just something you cooked up in order to get on a podcast. You could buzz market this, this rice professors fantasy trilogy. I, I just don't want him to think that I am truly upset,

mad, mad about it, but it is, it is an inconvenience. I will put it that way i i do value efficiency and using my time wisely um and so anything that slows and honestly i do see social interaction as mostly inefficient and wasting of my time. That's why you're training the robots to shop at the supermarket because you are also a robot?

This interaction is inefficient. Has there ever been a time when Larry has hit not one, not two, but upwards of three conversations at one big box stop? Oh, sure. Probably. Oh, yes. I'm certain of that.

Yes. Yeah, for sure. Larry, what's like sort of the average? That's my sweet abbrev for average. Um, I'm going to say, um, it's a right skewed distribution but the average is 2.7 2.7 oh wow yeah just because i'm always i'm always forgetting and always wondering what's the difference between a mean and an average and a median okay mean and average are basically synonyms they're you know what adding together and dividing by the

number of numbers. Median is strictly the middle number if you place them in order. All right. What's a right skewed distribution? A right skewed distribution would be one where most of the observations are on the low end and occasionally you get some on the high end. If you looked at salaries, for instance, you know, most people are going to be around one area and then a few would have very large ones. In this case, most of the time I'm going to be around one or two encounters, three encounters, but occasionally it might be seven, eight or nine where I'm. Oh my God.. If I were shopping big box with you Larry and you hit up nine

convos I would have gone home. I would have stolen a car. That entire thing will be less than a typical one will be less than one minute. I presume you have a spreadsheet to back this up.

You can keep in your stats I as a matter of fact no I don't it's probably a dot plot somewhere but um I probably do have some some data somewhere to support did you just say there's probably a dot plot somewhere yeah yeah I did that that's yeah what's how is that different from a scatter graph and how is that in turn different from scattergories? A dot plot is one variable data, which would be like this in a scatter plot would be two variable data, like time spent studying and grades. You know how you could look at how two variables respond to each other. Here would just be number of encounters. That's one variable, one thing that you're counting. Do you agree with the right skewed distribution average of 2.7 encounters per big box visit,

Heather? Does that feel about right to you or does that feel low or high? I would say that's pretty accurate, yes. That's pretty accurate. Well, you know, you put this judge in an interesting position because on the one hand i have to consider finding in favor of heather and shutting this down or at least setting a limit but on the other hand i feel like letting this experiment run but do some really heavy statistical analysis like i like it Like ordering you to have a stopwatch with you. I like it. I just have a couple more questions to ask before I go into the walk-in freezer of my big box chambers and shop for some frozen cow halves. Heather, when he's hitting up these 2.7

convos in a visit, are you forced to chat with the other people too? Or what do you do with your lost time in that moment? Sometimes I am kind of roped into the conversation, particularly if it's a student that we share. So I would feel very awkward if I didn't participate and throw in some commentary. So he'll say something like, this is one of the best students I've got. And then you'll say, I also have him. That's about the size of it, yes. Okay, so sometimes you feel roped in. And what if you don't feel roped in?

Sometimes I'll just continue shopping and leave him standing there. Or sometimes I'll just wait idly by. I don't think you'd be here unless you found both of those imperfect solutions to your husband's behavior. So what would you like me to order if I find in your favor? So I'm certainly not asking for him to perhaps cut them down substantially um i don't know how he picks and chooses those but um you know if the average is two what 2.5 to three then maybe just pick out one per big box chain store visit. You want him to choose winners and losers in the conversation game?

Well, perhaps. Yes. Larry, your wife just told me, I know she said certain words, but I read between the lines. Your wife just told me that she wants you to wear a handmade style hat that blocks out all of your peripheral vision so that you can only see directly in front of you and no one can gaze upon your face. Right. So that you can never speak to another human again

and to make it illegal for you to read. What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor? I mean, because obviously she's uncomfortable with your behavior. How do you respond to her discomfort? How does that make you feel? I do take my wife's feelings into account whenever I do things.

I think it's— Jesse, Jesse Thorne, for the record, mark that down as the first time a husband has ever said that on the Jeff John Hodgkin podcast. And not only did he say it, I honestly think he means it. So I'll allow it. I'm worried you interrupted him in the middle of the sentence and the second half of the sentence will be, however, I have an elaborate point system that I'd like to explain now. No, no, I don't. I think we are just fundamentally different with with how we view our fellow man. My wife sees other people as a mild inconvenience to the things that she needs to get done. And I am probably maybe a little too gregarious, and I want to reach out and say hi and hopefully bring a little joy into your life. thing that I'm getting, that to me is not nearly as important, not nearly as meaningful as some

encounter I may have with a person and something I might say about their kid that just might make their life better for a little while. That is not as important as getting the eggs or the milk or whatever. So what am I asking for? I'm asking, I hope that my wife understands that... I'm trying, I won't even say trying to lift people up. I just, I enjoy talking with other people and if a- Yeah, I get it. You would rather starve than not get your chat.

That's it. You have you have pinned it down. But basically what you're saying is you don't want no change of behavior. That's that I find in your favor. Would you stay the same? Status quo is a judgment in my favor. Status quo is a judgment in Larry's favor. One last question, Heather. I enjoy talking to your husband.

I have something of the gift of gab. But I'm curious about whether in observing him cornering these parents and students, whether you've ever seen a situation where they're not enjoying it, that they're sort of like you and they're kind of like, please end this human interaction. talking and being nice i would say occasionally uh particularly with former students

um they might feel a little bit you know like if they haven't seen us in a while they might feel a little uncomfortable um and not just not know how to respond. Like he'll ask what they're doing now and they might think that what they're doing isn't impressive enough, you know, and so they they might feel a little uncomfortable about that, perhaps. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into that walk-in freezer now.

I'm putting on my little vest in order to not freeze to death, and I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Heather, how do you feel about your chances in the case? I'm moderately confident. I think that Judge John is, you know, I know he's an only child as well, and he's married to a teacher. So perhaps that will give me some increased empathy for my plight, perhaps. Larry, how do you feel about your chances in the case?

Better than the Giants' chances of making the NLCS this year wait so you're taunting me now that's what this is about god how's the whatever team you like doing oh probably well uh poorly no I'm a Rangers fan so we're we're while we had a better year than the Giants of course it I'm a Rangers fan, so there you go. I'm throwing myself at your mercy because the Giants did defeat the Rangers in the World Series a few years ago. So you have me there. The Rangers are also the team that stole my childhood hero away from the Giants, William Neusler Clark. Hey, it's Judge John Hodgman just poking in from my chambers to ask, what the hell is going on here?

Why have you taken my podcast over and turned it into a sports talk? Ha ha, sports nerds rules, nerd nerds drool. We'll find out what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. It's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom to present the winners of the 2017 Major League Baseball World Series. It's quite an honor to have this trophy to hand over to a playing team, especially since I don't know, I don't know who won. So one of you guys is going to get it.

And I guess I'll choose. No, Larry and Heather, you may be seated. Larry, you would think that Heather might have an advantage here because we were both only children, but Larry,

you misunderstand two things uh which is that only children don't believe that other only children exist and therefore heather is obviously a fantasy worthy of justin cronin fantasy author and official sponsor of this podcast and you also misjudge because I am an extrovert. I have a podcast. I like talking to people. That's why I do this podcast. I love John, especially when I don't have to see them. And it is within my rights to tell them to shut up when they're boring me, which is the way this power structure is arranged for my amusement.

arranged for my amusement. But in general, I am in a situation that is not dissimilar from yours in that I, even though I am an only child, I enjoy social contact. I enjoy chatting with people. And my wife is much more introverted than I am in terms of casual chatting. She has several very close friends and she'll enjoy talking to them even if she runs into them on the street but in terms of casual hellos and whatnots she would rather move on with her life with robotic efficiency and and when i speak of my wife i am speaking of course of my wife bridget fonda the the famous actress who is so introverted she hasn't worked in a long time and we all miss her very much my real life wife uh is a teacher thank you both for what you do is one of those things that uh teachers always hear all the time to the point that it

is meaningless almost to the point of the same sort of meaningless which is that your child is one of my favorite students an empty platitude but i do mean it i do mean it. I also know from observing her experience that teaching is theater, right? When you are in the classroom and you are doing your job, you are performing. When the curtain has called and the show is over that you want to just walk down the hall and have some time to yourself and not interact with the audience any further. Different performers are different in this way. Some enjoy the meet and greet after the show. And I do because I am one of these gregarious people. And some just want to walk right off the stage and get into their cars and drive right to the airport and go away as quickly as possible and both attitudes are reasonable and

correct it is fine to do it either way and where i find the crux of this dispute is not so much that Larry is over gregarious, but that Heather feels a social pressure and an internal pressure to feel obliged to take part in some of this meaningless conversation with these faceless mannequins that are her student body and their parents and isn't willing to simply walk away and do her own thing. When I walk down the street in New York City,

it is not the antisocial paradise that you imagine it to be, Heather. People say, hi, we live in a neighborhood. We know our neighbors. We wave at them. We might stop and chat with them. If they have been in a car accident, we might actually stoop to help them one time out of 20. We might actually stoop to help them one time out of 20. And it can be, even for a gregarious, outgoing fellow like me, it can be a bother if you're trying to get somewhere and to be stopped along the way.

You know that I am a fan of the television show iClaudius. And one of the greatest social lessons I ever learned was from Brian Blessed's performance of the Emperor Augustus in iClaudius, the man whom everyone wanted to talk to because he was the Emperor of Rome, and who had an obligation to speak to these people even when he didn't particularly feel like it and he would be polite and listen to them a little bit and talk to them a little bit and then he would smile and then he would say we'll talk more later and then walk away it was the greatest the most gracious brush off ever devised because it leaves everyone feeling good.

And so without using those exact words, because people would realize it, I learned from that moment that there are times when it is appropriate to stop the conversation in respect of your own time. And this is especially true if you are on the subway and you are reading a book and someone comes up to you and then you know them from the neighborhood and they start talking to you. It is okay to say, it's really nice to see you, but this is my only time that I get to read. So I hope you won't mind if I just continue reading. And if they do mind, they're monsters, but they won't mind because they're human.

Laying down that line of where the conversation stops in a casual setting is different for everybody. Obviously, you know, because you have different places where you draw the line. And what I would encourage you to do, Heather, is to determine where your line is, draw it, and do not shy away from drawing it. Now, I'm not saying you should go around saying, we'll talk more later in a Brian

Blessed British accent, because that would be weird and that would be a lie, as insincere as your husband telling every parent that parent students are his favorite. telling every parent that parent students are his favorite. But instead, when your husband gets into the 2.7th conversation of that evening, even if it's a parent of a student that you have or a student that you have, it is okay for you to say, it's nice to see you, Bobby or Sally or mother or father of Bobby or Sally. I'm going to go look at Brussels sprouts now. You guys talk while I go get what needs to be done in this life to move things forward.

And walk away. Just walk away. Walk away from it. Enjoy the pleasant alone time of an only child wandering through a store that has otherwise been robbed of you by being married to another human. First mistake. Now, status quo is not enough here because you have to pay a price, Larry. Yeah.

For wasting your wife's time with your warm human interactions with the members of your community. And I totally want to see some dot plots on this. Okay. So when you engage in a convo, I want you to carry a stopwatch with you. Okay.

Or find some other way to discreetly time your interaction and obviously make a record of the number of interactions and keep it to two. Obviously, they're going to be outliers. This is a right skewing distribution. Indeed. But I feel like two convos, if it gets above 2.7, you got to dial it back a little bit.

Fair enough. And Heather, I want you to have a policy with yourself and with your husband, which is that you're not going to take part in any of this foolishness and you're not going to be ashamed of it. And no one in the school is going to blame you if Larry starts chatting over in the produce aisle and you say politely hello and goodbye and take a walk over to the dry goods aisle or whatever, because you already got a rep for walking through the hallways in school and not talking to anybody. Everyone knows.

Yes. Heather doesn't talk. Yes. Because Heather doesn't talk. And you won't feel guilty about it. And I know that Larry won't make you feel guilty about it. And you don't have to keep track of how long his conversations are because I've ordered him to do that scientifically.

But if you start feeling that it's going on too long, you have the right to text him and say, wrap it up. Because we got to get going. And if you get a text saying, wrap it up, you have to say your own version of we'll talk more later, Larry, and wrap it up. It's rare that this court will essentially rule a compromise. And I don't like it. So I am going to find in one person's favors. But these are the orders.

So I am going to find in one person's favors, but these are the orders. These are the processes that I am ordering be put into place for this problem to disappear. But that said, this is a court of fake internet law. I can't just say everybody wins. I have to say one person loses. As my ruling is closer to the status quo than no officially and in the books i find in favor of larry yes go chat it up larry and heather right you walk away this is the sound of a gavel judge john hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Can we infer, Larry, from your reaction that you're happy about this verdict? I am indeed. Victory is sweet. How do you think it

will feel the first time that you choose the parent of a child who you've recently met over your own wife? It won't even occur to me in that context i'm just going to continue doing what i do you'll get that kind of tunnel blindness that you get uh whenever you spot potential new social interactions that is exactly right uh heather how are you feeling i i feel empowered i i have permission to walk away and not participate and be by myself. So I feel great. Do you think that you could possibly install in the grocery store a nice reading chair like they have outside the women's changing room in a department store for husbands to sit in? I never thought about that, but that is a fantastic idea.

That could be revolutionary. Well, Heather, Larry, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Well, that's another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. Before we get to some swift justice, we want to thank Tim Mallos for naming this week's episode Public Befriender. If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions there. If you want to chat about the show, you can follow us on Twitter,

at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO. You can also join us in the Maximum Fund group on Facebook, and there are awesome local Max Fund groups for you, pretty much no matter where you live. You can also join us in the Maximum Fund group on Facebook. And there are awesome local Max Fund groups for you pretty much no matter where you live. You can also join us on Reddit, MaximumFund.Reddit.com. This week's episode recorded by Drew Hall at Rosewood Studios in Tyler, Texas. Our producer, the illustrious Jennifer Marmer.

Now, swift justice where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Here's something from Dave. My mom and I constantly argue about whether you can say the word funner. Is it only acceptable to say more fun? Yes, it is only acceptable to say more fun i'm glad dave that you hid which one of you says the the horrible word funner uh your mom or you so uh one of you should feel tremendous shame and the other should feel righteous self-congratulation which is always more fun than the other if me and jordan had made that decision it would have been funner i know i. And I'm not even going to talk about how you just said me and Jordan. That's like, that's like you're saying me and Jordan is, is, does the same thing to me as my making a reference to New England. It does to you. And yet it's always funner when we tease each

other. That's about it for this week's episode. You can submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. John, is there such a thing as a case too big or small for the Judge John Hodgman courtroom? No case too big nor too small. We reads them all. Judge Hodgman, I'm on the fence about submitting my case. I'm not sure whether it would be good for the show.

Should I keep it to myself? Here's an idea. Let me be the judge. Send it right to me and I'll read it and I will respond or move it along into the system so that you may be properly judged here on the podcast or in the pages of the New York Times or on the docket or wherever it may be. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO or Hodgman at Maximumfund.org. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. That is all. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.