Judge John Hodgman - Remodel Behavior

Episode Date: October 3, 2018

Crystal brings the case against her husband Todd. She likes to do projects around their house. But she complains that when she's about halfway through a project, Todd tends to voice strong opinions that start to change the direction. She would like him to let her carry out her original vision, but Todd thinks that this is part of the process. Who's right? Who's wrong? Thank you to Megan Hodgkiss for naming this week's case! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, remodeled behavior. Crystal brings the case against her husband, Todd. She likes to do projects around their house. She says that when she's about halfway through a project, Todd tends to voice strong opinions that start to change the direction. She would like him to let her carry out her original vision, but Todd thinks this is part of the process.

Who's right, who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Speaking of that pajama party, it was far from your usual toss some Orville Redenbacher's in the micro and chill situation. They projected a movie outdoors under the glow of several lanterns, treating everyone to a pizza bar, s'mores pit, and candy station.

Are you kidding me, RN? Question mark, exclamation point. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear the litigants in. Crystal, Todd, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling,

despite the fact that as a diehard Philadelphia basketball fan, he always trusts the process? Yes, we do. I do, yes. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. You may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Crystal, Todd, can either of you guess the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this fake internet courtroom?

Crystal, why don't you make the first guess? Hmm, well, my first thought is a Sweet Valley High book. Sweet Valley High book. Sweet Valley High? Sweet Valley High, of course, Francine Prose was the creator of that series. Long running, very successful YA series represented by Writer's House, my first employee as an adult here in New York City, where I worked as a literary agent. Cool. Is that why you made that guess? Did you know about that particular connection to my past? Is this some form of oblique pandering that you're doing? Boy, I wish I could say it was,

but it's a book, series of books that I read a lot when I was a kid. So it just sounded a little familiar. All right. Well, accidental pandering accepted. Todd, can you top her pandering? I was going to guess something from my youth like um tales of a fourth grade nothing tales of a fourth grade nothing which is better tales of fourth grade nothing or uh super fudge good question oh it's been so long probably tales of fourth grade nothing your answer is. You know why super fudge is less good?

Too much fudge. Well, all guesses are wrong, though I loved all of them. I was quoting from the magazine and website housebeautiful.com in their lovely illustrated coverage of the three days of the Property Brothers' wedding in Puglia, Italy. Drew Scott, one of the property brothers, got married to Linda Phan in Italy. And since your case is about remodeling and renovation, I thought I would reference my favorite Canadian identical twin remodeling renovation team. And Drew and Linda got married married last may and guess who was there you guys john hodgman

i got invited oh i got invited was there a candy bar pool is that what i heard it was not candy it was a s'mores pit and i only bring it up i don't only bring it up to brag and name drop of course that's the main reason i'm bringing it up and it is the most tenuous connection to your case which is about remodeling and renovation, but that's fine. But I am going to pass along a tip. First of all, that I learned because these guys are smart and they have taste and they did not have a s'mores pit, Todd. What they did have was a s'mores bar and guess how they did the s'mores instead of graham crackers and chocolate bars and marshmallows. I'm going to buzz market here because it's the only thing like it.

The brand of cookie called Lou, L-U, makes one cookie called Le Petit Ecolier, the little school child, which is a kind of graham crackery cracker that is topped with dark chocolate on top of the thing. And they were just handing those out. And you put a marshmallow between the chocolate parts, sandwich that between them. It's not a sandwich, but I'm talking about the Verb 2 sandwich. And you get automatic s'mores.

You're taking the chocolate bar out of the equation. Sorry, Hershey's. I don't have a sweet tooth. You know that. But this was an amazing innovation. So there you guys are in Fargo, North Dakota. We've heard a long story from me. Let's hear your story.

First of all, thanks for calling in from Fargo. I've never been there. I got close once. I got to Morris, Minnesota, and that was as far as I could go into the wintry hellscape of your world in February. But I've always wanted to get there. Are you guys natives? No, no, we were both born in Minnesota.

We actually went to high school together. Oh, okay. Oh, really? And you're married? Yeah. born in Minnesota. We actually went to high school together. Oh, okay. Oh, really? And you're married? Yeah. That's adorable. That's like me, you know. My wife and I knew each other in high school.

We did after, but we knew each other. My wife and I went to prom together, baby. That's right, Jesse. Yeah. So did we. We went to two proms together. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Yeah, you got me beat on that front. Jesse, your and Teresa's prom photo, I think, is up on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account. Is that not right, Jennifer Marmer? Jennifer says yes. Yeah, one of the most adorable photos. And Todd and Crystal, I'd love you to submit a prom photo to the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account, please.

Oh, my God. Look, you have two. You have a choice. You'll never see mine. How do you say the words North Dakota there? North Dakota? Is that how you say it the words North Dakota there? North Dakota. Is that how you say it there? No, I say North Dakota.

I'm just curious. Fred Armisen was saying there's a special way to say it. It does kind of blend into one word, North Dakota. North Dakota. Nordica. Nordica. Nordica. So why'd you guys move to Nordica?

I went to grad school here. I moved here for grad school and he came along with me. What would you study in grad school? Creative writing. I'm an MFA in creative writing. Oh, wonderful. Poetry mostly. Oh, fantastic. Good for you, Todd, for following your bride to an even more remote part of the world for her to study poetry at an MFA. That's a move that's hard to justify. I mean, Crystal following her passion for poetry in North Dakota is one thing.

But for you to be like, yeah, I'll upend my life for this as well. That's pretty cool. I like that. Excellent. What do you do there in North Dakota? I am a school psychologist at a local school district. Well, look, you guys are adorable. You obviously love each other and have loved each other for a long time.

I know your real age is here. I'm not going to name them because you're getting up into your 40s. It's gross. Don't want to shame you, age you. Thank you. Tell me why this fight isn't completely manufactured so you could be on a podcast. I can't imagine you having a dispute. What's the dispute about? Well, I brought the case forward after one specific project. We have a really old house. It's 112 years old. And so there are many, many things that are a little shabby that could stand for some love. And since we're both in education, we have the summers off. So a lot of the summer we spend doing projects around the house. And Todd's kind of a guy that does a lot of outdoor projects. And so while he's outside doing a lot of stuff, I wander around and find things to do inside. lot of stuff, I wander around and find things to do inside. And so I decided to redo our front door just to repaint our front door. We had a red front door. It hadn't been painted since we moved in. So I decided I was going to paint it yellow. I thought that was a very happy color. And I thought it would be relatively easy to kind of kick out in the afternoon while he was doing some landscaping

work outside. And I started painting it and I realized that the paint and the door were a little bit messed up. And then I thought I probably needed to strip the whole door and start from scratch. So I told Todd that I was going to do this. And I said, do you know how to do that? Because Todd has a lot of knowledge and he used to be a house painter while he was going to college. So I said, have you ever stripped a door? And he said, no, I have never done it. And I said, well, I want to do this. So I'm going to give this a whirl. And he said, and I quote, you are the head contractor on this project. Go for it. And he said that because we have been through this discussion before where

I start doing something, I have a vision, and then midway through he will start to intervene or at least somehow let me know that he doesn't think I'm going about it in the most effective way or the most maybe long-lasting way. Like I do things a little too hastily. There's a little backseat contracting. Yeah, yeah. And because we have known each other quite a while, this isn't the first time I've done a project and I kind of know his tendency to critique. And so he said, no, yeah, you do the research. You figure it out. I'll just, you know, if you need any help, let me know.

So how long did his promise that you were the head contractor on this door last? 35 minutes? Well, it lasted until I stripped the whole door and began painting it. lasted until I stripped the whole door and began painting it. And then he decided I should not paint both sides of the door like I was going to, that after I had stripped everything, it looked so nice that I should stain it instead of paint it. Is that just a biological clearing of your throat there, Todd? Or are you making a noise of disgruntlement? A little bit, because when we talked about it, I was under the impression she was going to strip the red paint off of the kind of the shabby front of the door. But on the back of the door had this wonderful patina like urethane and it was in good condition.

And then all of a sudden it was all stripped and i was kind of a little bit disappointed that i just thought it was the paint i see you you just wanted the paint to go away you didn't want it to be repainted yeah i just thought it was the one side of the door that was going to be done and then all of a sudden it was no it was the whole door and i didn't know that her vision was to paint the entire door interior and exterior this color, which is a beautiful color, but not for the inside. So your misunderstanding of her intention justified your breaking the contract and butting in on a project that you had claimed was hers. Kind of, yeah. Can I add something?

Was that important to you? I would say the backside of the door wasn't this, quote, beautiful patina that he claims, that it was a little bit rough. And that's why I stripped it. Like if it looked really good, I wouldn't have stripped it. But the stripping was going so well that I thought, well, this isn't very nice either, so I should strip it. And I did, and I wasn't in total disagreement that it would look nice stained. It was the fact that he said, we are staining this,

and if you are not going to do it, then I will do it. Whoa. Yeah. That is a change of tone, Todd. Yes. Admittedly, I was taken aback because I was very surprised

that the beautiful kind of alligator skin the the urethane or whatnot was now kind of gone got an alligator skin door yeah well you yeah yeah sometimes the the older wood kind of crackles with the urethane or whatnot so you have sent in some evidence and i think a visual will help me understand this better and maybe help clarify it for our listeners who i think are very confused about your door of many sides. Because you're talking about the backside, the interior side, the side side, this side, that side, the yellow side, the red side, the stained side, the stripped side. This is a multidimensional door. But you have sent in some photos as evidence, and that evidence will be available on that

Judge John Hodgman Instagram account, which is just instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman, obviously, also on our Judge John Hodgman page at MaximumFun.org. So this looks like a posting from a popular social media site. Do you have this evidence in front of you guys? I know what you're talking about. Yeah, the first picture is probably just where it's just the one side of the door. That is the front side of the door that has been stripped. Let's call that the exterior side. Perfect.

And your comment is, gratitude to my 112-year-old house for reminding me of the deep work beneath beautiful things. That is a deep caption. Well capped. Thank you. So that's the exterior after you stripped it. Right. Has that been stained? That has not yet been stained. Yeah, that was the part I was going to paint. That was the whole original plan that I would strip that side of the door, which used to be red, and paint that part yellow.

So the side, yeah, the exterior side would be yellow. And did you convey your intent to repaint the exterior to Todd? Yes. He knew this when he called you lead contractor on this? Yep. Yep. He said this when he called you lead contractor on this? Yep. Yep. He said, go for it. And we even drove to the store together and purchased the equipment that I needed together. So when you posted this, when you got down to the wood of this door, it's very pretty.

Your intent was still to paint this yellow, rather. Yes, correct. Yeah. That's the wrong decision. I'm sorry. Todd's right. It looks better this way. There's the wrong decision. I'm sorry. Todd's right. It looks better this way. There might be some confusion.

I never was objecting to painting the exterior of the door yellow. Oh, well, then you're both wrong. My objection was when she wanted to paint the interior of that door yellow and stripped off the urethane that was there. All right, now let's look at the next thing. This is the final product, the finished door. Always one for a compromise. We were one side natural wood, the interior side being pictured here. Now this is the interior on the left-hand side.

This is the interior of the door. It has been stripped and restained according to Todd's imperious orders. Is that correct? Yes, Todd did that work as well. And then the right-hand side is now the exterior of the door painted yellow. Correct. And that is the compromise. Correct. We did compromise. And I did say he was right. I was like, no, that looks really nice. Yeah.

You wanted both sides to be yellow. Is that correct? That was my original vision. Yeah. I thought it would look really nice. The doorway kind of leads to a little entryway. And that all was a shade of yellow that I had been repainting as well. Yeah.

So I thought it would just kind of make that space a little brighter. You're both wrong. I want it painted black. You see a red door. Yeah. So I thought it would just kind of make that space a little brighter. You're both wrong. I want it painted black. You see a red door. Yeah. There is in my life a highly glossy deep shade of black, which is, I believe, a traditional front door color in the Netherlands. And I'll tell you something. We painted the interior of our door in our apartment here in Brooklyn that deep, deep glossy black, and it looks amazing.

But again, that's my taste. Judge Hodgman, did I ever tell you about the time my dad, who in all the years I had known him had never undertaken a home improvement project, was chatting with me and he said, Hey, Jesse, did I ever tell you about the time that I spent the summer repainting the bathroom in my apartment to look like the inside of a serviceman's coffin? I was like, no, dad. You never mentioned that project. That is. My dad was a mess in the 70s. I mean, knowing some of the context in your dad's own suffering with post-military service PTSD,

that's a pretty incredible Raymond Carver short story right there. What does an inside of a serviceman's coffin look like? I think it was like, you know how they drape a flag over it? So I think maybe it was like a flag on the ceiling and then wood on the walls. Or maybe it was all black. Maybe it was black and then velvet on the sides. I don't know. I didn't.

I was so stunned. I was probably 14 or something. I think we have to shut the podcast down. I think that's it. That's it. I think I'm going to be speechless for the rest of my natural life. Wow. Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's sponsors.

When we come back, we'll hear more about Crystal and Todd's home improvement dispute. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In.

Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in.

Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot.

It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In.

Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware dot com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools

are approachable, accessible, rooted in real life situations and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear the sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners, at babbel.com slash hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash hodgman.

Rules and restrictions apply. Court's back in session. We've heard about Crystal and Todd's yellow door, but what other projects are in need of Judge Hodgman's guidance? Let's get back into the courtroom and find out. Let me just say the yellow side looks great. The stained side looks great. To my mind, they're on the wrong side. The yellow should be in the interior.

The stained should be on the exterior. And you got it all wrong. But I don't live in your house. So you reach the compromise. I don't get what the conflict is. The breach of contract that Todd should have left you well enough alone, Crystal, for you to make the error of painting this whole thing yellow? Well, it wasn't even really that part of it. It was the manner in which the news was delivered.

And that kind of is, in my mind, the crux of the argument. The way that he sort of decides that it doesn't matter what my idea was, that now he has the best idea. And if I don't agree, then I just need to step aside and sort of let him do it. I think when he sees like a tool or a paintbrush in my hand or something like that, he believes like pure chaos has ensued and it will just go poorly from there. Like he needs to, like he just has a little trouble letting go of control. So the door ended up, I think, being a really good compromise, but it was followed. I think the other evidence you have is of a room that we're redoing. And that was just sort of another example of me having a vision and inviting him in

to give input into that vision. And everything seems to be fine. And he really doesn't seem to care that much. He's like, yeah, go ahead. Do whatever you want to do. And then I start to kind of get out of control, according to him. All right. I have received photos, and we're going to work through them very quickly and very shortly.

But I just want to say that I'm mad at both of you because when I received this petition, I was promised that I was going to get pictures of something called the aquarium room. And I was so excited that some innovative weirdos in North Dakota had turned one room into an aquarium and you had filled up a whole room with water and fish. But instead, it's just a room with an aquarium in it. All right. Look, there are quite a few photos here.

But the first couple of photos of this aquarium room show, obviously, a dominant aquarium and then a big desk chair and a workstation and a bookshelf, and it's pretty cluttered to my eye. I'm not sure whether that's something you are asking me to see or whether it's something you have ceased to see and I can see, but it's a mess in there. Right, Todd? Yes. There's definitely an empty beer bottle on the floor. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's Todd's side of the room.

Yeah, the empty beer bottle is right next to an empty plastic tub of, I don't know, grout or something. Fish? It's probably some weird chemical for the aquarium. Probably some aquarium thing. That's Todd's part of the room, Crystal? What does that mean? Well, that's his desk, and he will claim that's his area. And so half the room has been finished, according to my vision.

And the half that you're talking about is the side that is as of yet unfinished. We had to stop the project to save up some more money. And in that time period, the vision, which was to carry that theme that I have on the other side of the room in the other pictures, that is more neat and orderly. Oh, my goodness. You know, now that I look at this other side of the room, you have two little side chairs, one in green upholstery, one in blue upholstery, some nice throw pillows, a nice little chest of drawers and a nice little wooden bowl. This side of the room is great. This is very relaxing and definitely not chaotic or disordered.

The other side's a horror show. Yeah. My dispute is not with that at all. I know it needs to be cleaned up and we've kind of talked about shelving and all of that kind of thing. And then why I think I'm being brought to court is I want to hang up a poster in my little zone for a game that I like. And kind of this fits with kind of the 50s feel of the room and that's kind of when all this went down and and she got upset and brought to court over I want to put up a poster on the side where the window switch is at in the photos. Okay. And now this explains the final piece of evidence that I received, which is a photo of a retro style 50s poster,

fake ad for a fake kind of cola called Nuka Cola, N-U-K-A. There is a pinup style illustration of a blonde woman in a space suit with a laser. And this is from a game that you like? Do you want to say what game it is? It's Fallout. Fallout, okay.

It's what they call an open world game, which means that you're kind of presented with a set of problems and a world that you can explore and just a variety of things that you can murder to solve those problems. Tons of wonderful lore, and I love the 50s kind of feel to it and whatever.

You mean, Jesse, there's not just one murder path through this game, but there are branching murder paths? Yeah, I mean, it's important to keep the focus on all problem solving being murder based. But yeah, there's all kinds of murders that you can commit. You can murder monster zombie guys. You can murder Revolutionary War guys, all kinds of guys you can murder. Okay, so I take what you're saying, Crystal, that in the case of the door, your claim is that he couldn't just let you have the control

that he promised you. And he just couldn't resist it and had to get in there and just start staining. But this is a different issue. He wants to decorate what is called his side of the room, and specifically with this poster. And you are opposed to this. Explain to me why you're opposed to this. So when we started redoing this room, or when I said I think we should redo the room, the vision was for the whole room. The aquarium is really his baby. It's a live planted aquarium. So he spends a lot of time working on it. He's also obviously has his video gaming stuff all there.

So I knew that was his space. And I said, I want to respect that. So do you think this idea, this furniture that I have picked out, all this stuff is going to work? And he said, yes. And part of that was a shelf that would wrap around to that side of his space. And then he said, okay, and we'll put that shelf there. And then I'm going to build a few more shelves above my desk to get rid of all of this clutter. So we have to wait to save up the money to get this shelf and finish this other side of the room. And one day he just came home with two poster frames. And I said,

why did you buy these poster frames? And he said, I'm going to hang up these posters from Fallout in this room. And I said, but that's where the shelves are going to go. And he was like, no, this is my room. I'm going to do what I want to do. Like two weeks ago, you didn't care what this room looks like. I mean, and you can see the pictures. He really doesn't care what it looks like. But as soon as I said we were going to do this, he suddenly developed a very strong opinion and came across a little bit rude, in my opinion. It's not so much the change that he wants to make. It's the method that he goes about demanding.

Are you sure it's not the change he wants to make? Are you sure? Because I'm going to say something. Todd, what Crystal has done on her side of the room, what we're calling her side of the room for the moment, is very lovely, serene, and tasteful, right? Absolutely, yeah. And you suggest that it has something of a 50s theme

because these side chairs are kind of verging slightly into the mid-century modern look, kind of. Yeah. I would the mid-century modern look. Kinda. I would say mid-century. Mid-century. Thank you. Thank you, Jesse. Maybe like an early 60s look. Yeah, right. There's a little bit of Mad Men in there, right? That's what I was thinking.

Yeah, absolutely. You're using that to justify putting up this phony retro 50s era poster from your video game on your side of the room because the style matches but i'm here to tell you uh-uh does not match does not match don't pretend that you think this room has an atomic or googie theme no but that's why where I intend on putting it would be just mainly for my, like, whatever, zone. And I think it kind of fits and it could be worked in. Todd, I've got the perfect place for you to put it.

And I say this as a guy who's probably spent 50 hours playing that particular video game. In the garage. I was going to say freshman dorm room. There you go. That's right. That's where the poster should go. game? In the garage. I was going to say freshman dorm room. That's right. That's where the poster should go. Now I'm post. Todd, you are a school psychologist and

you followed your wife to North Dakota so she could get a poetry degree. You're a good person. I'm going to tell you right now, aside from whatever decision you make, a phony ad from a video game, no matter how roughly googie atomic it kind of is, as Jesse very wisely pointed out, he knows his design eras better than I do. This automatically turns anything that it's near into a man cave

and i say man cave with the greatest possible prejudice you might as well be putting in a bar shuffleboard table and some old street signs you might as well be making it look like a tgi friday as you put it in there put in a light beer tap yeah So I believe Crystal when she says to you and earlier to me that she is not against this poster intrinsically. Crystal, is that your position? I feel, yes, intrinsically it is not. I do feel like it is a little bit like we shouldn't decorate with posters, but the essence of the argument is not related to the poster. I just want to, because what I was going to say is I believe Crystal when she says to your face and mine that she doesn't hate this poster, that isn't what this is about. This is about a change

in workflow that you guys had an agreement on. I am here to tell you, I don't like this poster. Sorry. But then again, I wanted to paint your door black. I don't like this poster. I'm sorry. But then again, I wanted to paint your door black. I don't live there. Would it change at all if it was a Guy Madden poster that I tacked up there? That's more tasteful, certainly. Right? This poster suggests that you would not put up a Guy Madden poster. This poster suggests that you would want to put up a usual suspects poster.

Yeah, there is a Guy Madden poster in another place in the house. Oh, you're trying to offload another poster. Yeah, he said he was telling me that it was the same because I hung up some movie posters and things like that and he said that

negated my ability to veto that. You have, I want to believe poster hanging in your office. Do you know, which is not the focal point of the house. It's my private space. There are a lot of issues going on here. There's a lot. I mean, I was going to say, Crystal told me she doesn't hate the poster. I'm here to tell you, I hate it. But then I went back to you, Crystal, and I said, is it that you don't hate the poster? And there was this long pause.

Right. And you're like. Because I really don't like the poster. Yeah, finally. All right. You were under oath from the beginning. Okay. Fair enough. No, and I guess for me in the workflow and all of that, the window is open. So I better, if I want to have something that is mine, regardless of its Nooka, Cola, poster or whatever, I better get it in now or at least voice it that this is important to me.

I want to have something like that of my own in my space. Yeah, this is your space to play murder path yeah exactly whether it's the nuka cola poster or a donnie darko poster or a sweet dragon bong you want to get something of yours into this room exactly where are you gonna put your samurai swords right words, right? Exactly. I mean, let's be honest, Crystal. The nucleus of this room is a gigantic fish tank. It's already pushed into a very bachelor pad direction.

So you have a space, you have an office where you have a I Want to Believe poster from the X-Files hanging somewhere? I do. Upstairs, yep. Hidden away. How many rooms are in the house? So there's my office, our bedroom, and a guest room. That's all upstairs?

Correct. And then downstairs, here in this living room configuration. So people need to understand that the aquarium room does not have a door. It leads through an archway directly from the living room. So what is Todd's space here is not private to him, nor would anyone have privacy outside of his room if he wanted to foist some wacky posters into the decor of the living room. Yeah, he did have an office in the basement. He used to, but he's moved upstairs. And did you fill that office with cement? Is that no longer available as a man cave for him? No, it's in an unfinished basement in a sump room.

It is very removed. And when I'm down there, I feel completely out of touch. You don't have to make a case, sir. You said sump room and that did all the work for you. No, you can't be down there in the basement. You said sump room and that did all the work for you. No, you can't be down there in the basement. And may I say, like where I wanted to hang this poster is on the opposite wall of the archway.

So looking into the aquarium room, you would never see the poster. You would only see it if you were in the aquarium and turned around and looked out towards the living room. Oh, I see. So it is in the same wall, not the opposite out towards the living room. Oh, I see. So it is in the same wall, not the opposite wall of the archway, the same wall as the archway, but on the other side. The same wall as the, yes. So like where your desk is now, and people can look and see this on the internet and understand what I'm talking about,

but where your desk is now, you would sit in your chair, you'd be facing your murder path game, and then on your right-hand side on that interior wall, you would see your ad for Nuka-Cola. Absolutely correct. That's fine. So before I go into my room full of samurai swords and collectible figurines and make my decision, let me understand what is the ostensible substance of your argument with regard to this room. There was a plan to build shelving on Todd's side of the room to replace that desk and shelving unit that is there.

You wanted to wait until the shelving was in before you accommodated this Nuka Cola poster crystal. But Todd went ahead and bought the poster anyway. And you feel like this is just Todd. He's doing his own thing again. He's not sticking with the plan. Is that correct? Yeah, that's basically correct. The poster was just never, ever part of the plan. Oh, so even when you agreed on the redecoration of the room, Nuka Cola was not part of the deal at that time?

No, I said, I think we should do this. He said, yeah, that looks great. Do whatever you want. And then he was like, I'm hanging this poster. I don't care what you think. So the poster offered both a symbolic affront because it was him following his own path rather than following the path that you were laying out and what you had agreed upon.

But it was also an intrinsic affront because it's a kind of dumb poster that you don't like. Right, exactly. Yep. So really I have to rule as to A, whether this poster is going to exist in your lives and B, whether Todd has been so out of line in his intervention in your renovation plans that I have to order him to not do that anymore. Is that right? Is that what you would have me order if I were to find in your favor was it

would be a gag rule on Todd. No talking when you're redoing the aquarium room, don't get any more posters. Yeah. I don't know if a complete gag order is what I would desire, but at least some acknowledgement that if we want to change the plan midstream, it is more of a mutual discussion rather than him throwing the hammer down because I've gone off the rails. Give me an example of her going off the rails, Todd. I've not

seen any evidence of Crystal going off the rails. I think sometimes that there's a definite, like when we get into these projects, communication and our talking back and forth that we lose some specificity of exactly what, because I think that she thinks that shelving is going to come all the way around the corner. And I don't know if we ever talked about that. And from my mind, hanging a poster on the wall, it doesn't negate the fact that we still are hanging up the shelves we talked about.

They can exist in the same reno or remod or redecoration. I think he really just kind of thinks that my vision is never complete. And so he can just intervene because my vision, when I'm saying go off the rails, I kind of mean he feels like I won't be careful enough or I won't be like precise enough. And so he needs to intervene. And so in this example, it's just this hanging poster. But his intervention here isn't saying, I don't believe that you can hang those shelves. I have to do it. His intervention here is- Oh, but he would do that. He will do that? All right. Yeah. Yeah. He will do that. Who is going to do the work? He would build the shelves. And I have learned through our long relationship that it is more functional if I just allow him, if there's like measuring and

things like that involved, that it's better if I just let him do it. Because if I try allow him, if there's like measuring and things like that involved, that it's better if I just let him do it. Because if I try to do it, he'll just take over anyway. I don't think that sounds good for you. I don't think that that sounds like a real, a real healthy agreement when you say, I've learned to let him do it. Otherwise, he's just going to do it anyway. Can you hang those shelves on your own? I mean, are you as competent at hanging those shelves as he would be? Probably not as competent because I've had less practice. Right. Todd, what would it mean for you to really take a step back and let Crystal finish her vision, fund it, and then employ you or someone else to execute it before you weigh in?

Admittedly, sometimes that is difficult. And when I have, and something I've been mindful of for many, many years, and taking a backseat and biting my tongue, because I do admittedly, like when it comes to paint and wood finishing and all things like kind of square and plum, I am an anxious mess. Deep within me, it has to be a certain way. And I can't just sit back and say, you know, oh, she's kind of, you know, not doing it the way I want and bite my tongue. That's very difficult for me. Hugely difficult for me.

And so sometimes what we do is I just almost have to remove myself and just, just turn a blind eye. And I kind of did that with the door, but then it was like, Oh my God, you're coming around the corner and now you're going to paint the other side. And that was tough. And the, the, the, the poster thing, it's not so much what we were talking about with like shelving and whatever the poster is this kind of a different thing where I'm like, well, this is kind of my space and I want to hang up something that's the that's mine tacky

or not. I just wanted there and, and to voice that that opinion when evidently unbeknownst to me, the contract was closed. It was, you know, we're, it's a done deal. We can't, no, there's no room for any sort of flexibility. And I know I might've gone about it a little bit wrong, but the big box art store was having a heck of a sale on frames, so I picked up two. Okay. Yeah. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my fallout bunker and work through some murder paths of my own, and I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Crystal, how are you feeling about your chances here? I'm feeling pretty good about it. The judge seemed to think that my tastes were good, that I made my case pretty well, that the problems that I have with the way we go about the projects, I was able to articulate that. And I think I have a pretty good case. Todd, how are you feeling? I'm

a little optimistic, but I think that I'm about a little bit away from being a monster or being claimed to be a monster. And that was my greatest fear coming into this because I'm not, I'm not. Yeah. I guess my big question, this really comes from the heart is given that you have an entire guest bedroom, why do you have a red on black gaming PC in what essentially is your living room? The room's pretty filled up. It is. We've got a bunch of, there's two bookshelves and things like that. Not a very big room.

Yeah, it's kind of tough. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie,

Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm.

Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Ah, it'll never fit. No will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh then you're on the go. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

So first of all, I'm just going to order right now. Todd, you are not a monster. Yay! You are both as wonderful and adorable as when we first met. Todd, I want to reiterate, you are not a monster monster i think that this poster is not what i want uh in my life but it's very clear that you want it in your life just because you have bad taste doesn't mean you're a bad person put it that way and it's not even bad taste you know what i mean it's like i think jesse really put his finger on it as he often does when talking about issues of aesthetics, is that hanging a video game poster in your home is redolent of a youthful past, something a younger person would do.

a teenager, a dorm denizen in college, maybe in their first apartment when you're in your early twenties, not something that would exist outside of a strict man cave when you're in your forties. And as I say, man cave, I use that term with extreme prejudice, which is prejudice against it because a dude who has reached his forties and f 50s and needs to reassert a new kind of dorm room aesthetic into his life in a garage or in a special room i think there's something a little bit um clingy to youth and desperate to that that does not make a home peaceful and nice to be in that's for you to ponder but what's interesting about this is that you guys have known each other since you were teenagers and throughout those periods of life when it would have been entirely appropriate for you to be hanging a video game poster above your gaming computer in your pad

or for that matter an x files i want to believe poster in your pad. You're not off the hook here. You're the crystal. It's not the nineties anymore. What I feel in this room among all the shifting issues of trust, compromise, surrender, all of the elements of marriage that often get profoundly literalized in remodeling and redecorating, right? Where one person has difficulty letting the other person just do a thing. You're sharing a space.

You have somewhat different attitudes among all of these things. The one that is most compelling to me is this room, this aquarium room that is dominated by this murky swamp in a box. swamp in a box and on the one side is this broke down dorm room aesthetic with a gaming PC in it that is Todd's World and

Crystal's newly redecorated mid-century clean grown-up aesthetic that she has now made a foothold in Todd's World and I think she wants to take over the whole of this world wants to drag this whole room into grown-up years and i'm not saying that you're a you're a child heart there todd crystal's just as bad she's got

that i want to believe poster up there there's stuff that you hang on to their moods and modes of expression that you hang on to especially you are moods and modes of expression that you hang on to, especially, you know, from earlier life. And it takes time to realize, oh, I'm in a different phase of my life now. Even if I love, and you may very well love this Nuka Cola poster. You may think over everything I've said and say, he's wrong. I still love this thing. Good. That's your taste. But beer bottle on the floor, big old leather armchair, dumpy PC computer, things falling off your bookshelf, tapestry tacked to the wall, everything that's going on over in your side of the room, Todd, is dorm room, trashy chic. And I think the reason that you're sensitive about this, and I think the reason why Crystal is sensitive about this, is she's trying to take over that side of the room. And part of the reason that you got this poster is A, frame sale at the big box store, obviously,

got to grab a bargain. But B, you want to plant a flag in that side of the room that can't be eradicated that says, I'm still here and I still like this stuff. And that's reasonable. Similarly, Crystal, you feel frustrated because Todd won't let you drag him into adulthood, drag this house into adulthood. And even if that's not an issue, even if you reject that whole premise that I've given you, the whole psychological crux that I've imposed over this, even if you think I'm wrong, you have expressed that you feel frustrated that Todd doesn't trust you to start and design a plan and execute it without his meddling. And the meddling might be you've painted the wrong side of the door, or the meddling might be, guess what? I've got this poster. And you're like, just let me finish my thing. In my experience cohabitating with a person that I've known since high school, we've gone through many different aesthetic and personal phases in our lives.

And sometimes one of us has to drag the other one along. And it's hard. It's really hard. And there was a moment when my wife decided that she was going to replace the pendant lamp that is the main lighting fixture in our dining area of our open plan living concept here in Brooklyn, New York. Thanks, Property Bros. With a new pendant lamp that had a completely different, mine was a mid-century modern aesthetic. This was lots of different sparkly lights. And I said, you can do it every one in

the apartment please don't take out my lamp i love that pendant lamp to me it's the first thing i look at when i come home and i go i'm home and she said i'm sorry i'm doing it anyway and she did it and i let her do it let her do it i don't let her do anything we we are equals you know and the fact is surrender is part of marriage sometimes it's like okay you know what you were right about us having children i wasn't sure about that either but it turned out to be the correct decision you could be right about this pendant lamp as well and i'm here to tell you, she could not have been more wrong about that lamp. When that new lamp went in, I was practically in tears for weeks. I couldn't look at it.

And yet I was patient and I said nothing because this was the decision. I was going to live with it and see how it felt. And after weeks and weeks, it still felt terrible. And after weeks and weeks, it still felt terrible. And completely without anything other than telepathic influence from me, I promise you, I said nothing. And she said, yeah, it doesn't look good. Let's switch it back. That was several months ago.

We haven't done it yet, but we're going to. We're going to do it. It takes time. But that's what you have to do. You have to let the other person express their vision and then communicate with them about the vision. Be really clear about where your input is needed and okay and where your input needs to take a back seat. And then stick to that plan, that emotional plan of non-interference or agreed upon interference. You have to stick to it. or agreed upon interference. You have to stick to it. So you guys need better communication for sure. And Todd, you definitely need to process your emotions, say what you need, work this out ahead of time. And once the plan is in action,

trust the process, as Jesse Thorne said earlier, and really discipline yourself and not do anything to mess it up. So in that sense, I am absolutely finding in Crystal's favor. However, I will say this. I think that poster is dumb. I don't like it, but I think it needs to be in that room. And I think where you have proposed hanging it is perfectly reasonable. And what I want is for you, Crystal, to incorporate into your shelving design a featured spot on the agreed upon wall where that poster will not only be hung, but also beautifully lit in some undershelf lighting. Because it's his room, too.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom. Crystal, how do you feel right now? Oh, I'm a little bummed about this poster being lit up. I'm sorry to jump back in here, Crystal, but this is on you. You said it's not the poster that bothers me, it's that he's trying to undo the system.

That's not true. The poster bothers you. Just say it. Just say it. That's why. Yeah, it bothers you. It bothers you. It bothers you.

I get it, but it's going to look better once it's in your design. Sorry. Go ahead, Jesse. Todd, how are you feeling? I'm feeling very good and also taking a step back and things like that, just how we communicate through a project and what that means and keeping emotions in check and that kind of a thing and really talking and working through it. I like it. Do you feel the same way, Crystal? Well, I really liked what the judge said about it being a representation of us moving into a different phase of our marriage.

I thought that was an accurate psychological profile. I hadn't thought about it that way. It's really interesting. Crystal, do you think Todd's issue that he needs to address here is keeping his emotions in check? Well, of course. Yeah, I think. Yeah, for sure. Especially when he sees me with a paintbrush in my hand.

That's where the emotion comes out. It's going to drip. Crystal, Todd, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was a pleasure to have you. Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. We've got some swift justice coming up in just a second. But first, our thanks to Megan Hodgkiss for naming this week's episode. If you want to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO. And you can chat about the show at MaximumFun.reddit.com. This week's episode was recorded by Skip Wood at Prairie Public Broadcasting in Fargo, North Dakota. Our producer is the ever-capable Ms. Jennifer Marmer. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment. You ready, Judge?

I am ready. Rusty says, Recently, I did a movie marathon with a few documentaries thrown in. My significant other said that the documentaries don't count toward the final number of films. She's not wrong often, but I think this is an exception. What do you think, Judge Hodgman? First of all, Rusty, congratulations on a great name. Not enough Rustys in the world. Yeah, world class. I don't know why Rusty's SO

wants to pick a fight with old Rusty. This is not something worth fighting over. A documentary, of course, is a movie. I guess it's an issue of like, I'm going to watch 25 movies this week or something, but documentaries don't count because they're unscripted they're incredibly and carefully when they're done right crafted and edited their stories that are told and if they're a feature length in length then of course that's a movie come on rusty significant other don't be ridiculous let rusty be rusty count those docs can we get a letter next time from like a guy named Skip? How about Chipper? What about Pooter?

What about Hambone? Yeah, if your name's Hambone, please write in. Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. And if your name isn't Hambone, write in at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. Or go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. No case is too small. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org. Comedy and culture.

Artist owned. Listener supported.