Judge John Hodgman - Requesting an Immediate Ingestion

Episode Date: September 26, 2018

Matthew brings the case against his wife, Angie. In their family, it's the rule that they all remain at the dinner table until everyone is done eating. But, Angie is a notorious slow eater. Matthew says he is constantly entertaining their small children for too long, while she finishes her meal. But, Angie thinks he is exaggerating how bad it is. With Guest Bailiff Jean Grae! Thank you to Carol Sanchez for naming this week's case! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am guest bailiff Jean Grey filling in for Jesse Thorne this week, requesting an immediate ingestion. Matthew brings the case against his wife, Angie. One of their family rules is that they all remain at the dinner table until everyone is done eating. But Angie is a notorious slow eater. Matthew is constantly left entertaining their small children while she finishes her meal. He wants to minimize the time he's spending with screaming kids,

but Angie thinks he needs to slow down. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. One, eat only when you have a good appetite. Two, chew the food like pulp and drink that pulp. Do not swallow food.

Three, drink all the liquids and liquid food sip by sip. Do not drink in gulps. And remember, nature will castigate those who don't masticate. Gaspel of Jean Grey, please swear them in. Matthew and Angie, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever, even though you can't handle the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God or whatever, even though you can't handle the truth. I do. I affirm that I speak the truth. Do you swear to

abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he's wearing orange and it's very in right now? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Oh, you may be seated. Well, thank you very much, Gene. You're welcome. It's very trendy. The shirt is actually a little bit old. I was thinking about throwing it away. That's the whole deal. Retro. Maybe I got another season in it. So many seasons. Oh, boy. Thank you very much. All right. Well, nice to have you here again, Jean Gray.

And nice to have you here, Matthew and Angie, for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased when I entered the courtroom? I quoted it. I didn't change any words. I added a – I took something from a different context and put it in, but it's all the same person.

I'm giving you more information than you need. Matthew, why don't you go first? What's your guess? I have no idea, so I'll go with my pre-canned guess of something off the Cake or Death album. Whoa. I like what you're doing. I like what you're doing. I like what you're doing. I have used masticate before.

I'm going to take a 25 minute break. Enjoy. Have a good time, Jean. Oh, man. So let's get into this case. You are referring, of course, to the album Cake or Death by Jean Grey. Non-released. Non-released.

Only a few people know about it. Yeah. And Matthew you are one of them. That is an incredible Scary. I don't know how he got the lyrics. How'd you get that information? Yeah, hold on a second. Matthew, who is this? There's this new invention called Google. Oh, alright.

Well, that's a very interesting and provocative guess and I'm going to put it into the guessbook right now. I'm writing it in here. You can hear it here at Argo Studios. And now, Angie, what is your guess? Without commenting on whether or not that guess was correct, what is your guess? My guess is the recently released cookbook, Run Fast, Cook Fast, Eat Slow by the winner of the New York Marathon last year. Whoa.

Did you just have that at the tip of your slow eating tongue or was that something you had prepared in advance? No, I'd prepared it. Well, that's a good guess. Do you have a guess? You don't have to guess. I always like guessing. Do you have a guess? You don't have to guess.

I always like guessing. He's known for just really thinking things out, thinking them through, and being very careful with his words. I'm going to go with Ray J. Ray J. Is that Ray J? Well, for the love of Ray J, that's a guess. I have a real guess. Okay. What is your real guess?

Julia Child. Julia Child. Two guesses from Jeanan gray i'll allow it but all guesses are wrong it was not ray j it was not julia it was not jean gray uh nor was it the unnamed marathon winners who like to run fast and cook fast but eat slow although i think angie you are closer than any of the other guesses because that was Horace Fletcher. Horace Fletcher, a famous dietary theoretician of the early 20th century. He lived from 1849 until he died in 1919. He was the pioneering author of Fletcherism, What Is It, and How I Became Young at 60.

He wrote a number of books, became a very famous sort of early food celebrity, championing the health benefits of chewing a lot. And it's impossible that he wrote a lot of books. How did he get to time? He wrote a number of books on essentially this one subject, which was chew each bite 100 times. Oh, that's too many times. This was incredibly popular at the time. The idea was that we were all misdigesting our food because we weren't chewing enough. So you're supposed to chew your food into a slurry so you wouldn't even have to swallow it.

It would just slide down your throat. Slide down your throat. It just became a part of you. And this was called Fletcherizing. And it was very popular in the early 20th century as an idea for how you could eat more healthfully. Now, that is gross. That is gross. And trust me, I've tried it because someone who's very close to me in my life is named Fletcher.

So I've been tuned into this idea for a long time. We've both tried it. It's really gross. Yeah, it's terrible. tuned into this idea for a long time. We've both tried it. It's really gross. Yeah, it's terrible. He also suggested things that I think are valuable, which is don't eat unless you're really hungry. That's a good one.

He also would say don't eat when you're sad or mad. This was in the early 20th century. Calm down, Fletcher. Take it down a notch. And he also said you should know what's in your food. You should be conscious of the food that you're eating. Very fair. Very fair. And he also, by the way, what's in your food. You should be conscious of the food that you're eating. Very fair. And he also, by the way, his most famous demonstration that brought him to attention was when he was 58. Back in 1907, he went to Yale University, my alma mater. It's a four-year accredited college in southern Connecticut.

And he challenged the football team to a variety of physical tests. And because he had been chewing his food so much, he bested them all. Specifically, he claimed to lift 300 pounds dead weight 350 times with his right calf. I don't think that happened. Angie, you chew your food slowly. Maybe. How many times do you chew a bite of food, Angie? A hundred times or less?

I'm going to go with less, but this idea really sounds pretty enthralling to me. Right. This is why I chose this piece, because I thought you might already know about Fletcherizing. I don't. So Matthew brings the case against you because he claims that you eat too slowly. Where do we find you guys in the world? We live in Golden, Colorado. We're currently in Denver right now. Oh, the

mile-high city. Very high. Yeah. For many reasons. The city with the spookiest airport in the United States. Yep. Well, Colorado is great. And Matthew, explain what exactly is the problem that Angie has, in your opinion, with regard to eating speed. So

it's a well-known fact she eats slowly and... I will determine what is a well-known fact. She eats slowly. I will determine what is a well-known fact in this courtroom. I mean, I won't dispute this, Judge. Oh, okay. Well, then it's a well-known fact. Go on. So I knew that going into the marriage. I knew that for years before we had children, where the issue becomes is when we have a three-year-old and a one-and-a-half-year-old. And where I struggle is when one or both of the children are complaining or screaming as they want to do. Angie is sitting there slowly chewing away doing I don't know what while one of the children is.

I think you know what. She's chewing. Was there something else? Yes, she's chewing. It's true. Sometimes I do study her and just trying to figure out why this is taking so long.

And I know that you did some deep study on this because the evidence you provided that we'll get to in a moment, it is meticulous to the point of madness. But I won't get to the evidence in a moment.

And so when you're having dinner, you try to have dinner together as a family, even with that three year old and one and a half year old? Yep. So I would probably say almost every single night we're eating dinner together as a family. I think it's it's important for us. Even before we had kids, that was a rule for Angie and I just to we think it's good for the relationship. a rule for Angie and I just to, we think it's good for the relationship. And so as you mentioned at the beginning, we have a rule that everyone stays at the table until everyone else is done. So we're just waiting there for Angie to finish chewing. And how long, I mean, I know, I know you have a lot of data to present, but just a thumbnail it for us. Like how long are you stuck there waiting for her to finish chewing? I mean, while a child is screaming, it feels like an eternity.

Yeah. Okay, Einstein. I know time is relative. But we're talking about five minutes, 25 minutes. What would be, I mean, you've got the data. Tell me, give me a mean, give me an av. So on our 50% median here, Angie takes about 50% longer than the rest of the family. 50% longer. Wow. That's, Angie. What's that in real minutes? Yeah.

Okay. Good question, Angie. I'll allow it. What's that in real minutes? It's about five minutes. Yeah. But of course, at Colorado elevation, okay, good question, Angie. I'll allow it. What's that in real minutes? It's about five minutes. Yeah, but of course, at Colorado elevation, that's a little bit longer, right? Because of the atmosphere. It's 72 hours.

Yeah, right, exactly. Who cooks this food? I do. Angie does. Most nights. Matthew will probably do it on the weekends. Jean Grey is making a serious note. I am making a note of that. And what do you like to cook, Angie? Well, here, you know what? Let's get specific.

We are speaking to you on a Wednesday. What did you have for dinner last night? Last night we had leftovers, as we're having a lot because we're trying to get out of town this weekend. So we had, it was a noodle dish, kind of an Asian noodle dish. Were those leftovers from the previous evening? Over the weekend, I think. Okay. What's your favorite thing to cook? Anything quick. One pot meals. Right. You want to cook fast,

but eat slow. Exactly. In the last week, we had Indian one night. We had a one pot Mexican thing that Matthew cooked over the weekend. We had the noodles. We had a lettuce wrap. How successful is sitting down at dinner with a one and a half year oldhalf-year-old and a, is it a two-year-old or a three-year-old? A three-year-old. It's very ambitious. I mean, that's rough. Like, will they sit? I mean, come on, you guys.

What's happening? The three-year-old does know that that's our rule, that we all stay at the dinner table until everyone's done. And sometimes she eats, sometimes she doesn't. It's her choice either way. And the one-and-a-half-year-old is knock on wood but she's uh stopped throwing food on the floor lately congratulations and when you are eating slowly is it um are you just following your own pace or are you just really making a meal out of it as you were as that three-year-old is like i want to go and you just lean over and chew slowly right in her face.

One kernel at a time. I'm not done yet. Yeah, I'd say I'm not the parent that mocks our children, probably. Okay. Let's see. How many parents are there by process of elimination and standard deviation of 50% more likely to be Matthew is the parent who mocks the children. Yeah, you might say that. Why do you eat so slow? You acknowledge that you eat slow.

What's going on? I don't have an explanation for it. It's been a lifelong thing. Frequently, my family wouldn't have this rule growing up, so I would be the last one sitting all alone at the dinner table. Oh, so this is vengeance upon your family. You are mad for being left alone and you are visiting your anger upon your children. Maybe subconsciously, I suppose. So was there an event specifically that made you, prompted you to send in this dispute, Matthew? I think it was our youngest child. She was,

I think she was probably teething at the time. And so it seemed just like every single night I was sitting there holding the screaming child while Angie slowly sat there, somehow not minding, but I'm just wanting to claw my eyes out while I'm holding the screaming child. And what was Angie's demeanor as you were holding the screaming child? Was she staring into the middle distance? Was she attempting to have a conversation? Was she quiet? Was she chatty?

Describe for me. She was her normal self. She's not super chatty, but just engaging with the children. Only time it would be different would be after I make a snide remark. She would rightfully so, I think. She would have a chew slowdown at a protest. A protest chew, yeah. A chew stoppage.

Yeah. What kind of snide remark are you making, Matthew? It's usually in response to our three-year-old saying, can I get up now or can I leave the table? And I would just make a remark, we're waiting on mommy to finish chewing. Oh, man. Oh, throw her under the bus. Okay, we're going to take a quick recess and we'll hear more from Matthew and Angie when we come back. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to

embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-p-p-o-d-c-a-s-t-i hmm are you trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh, we are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Court is back in session. Let's get back to the courtroom for more justice okay you sent in a bunch of evidence so let's take a look at it and of course all this evidence is going to be available for your review uh listener uh at the judge john hodgman page at maximumfund.org and what visual evidence we may share on Instagram will also be available on our Instagram account, which is instagram.com slash judge John Hodgman.

The first piece of evidence that you have sent in is a, a Google spreadsheet detailing our dinner finishing times for 23 days. Thank you for compiling all of this data. I wonder, were you compiling this data anyway, or has it just taken us 23 days to hear your case? I do make a lot of spreadsheets, even in my own personal life. But this was not one I had just randomly collecting. Oh, so you've been waiting at least 23 days.

Just as delayed as just as denied. I apologize that your family has lived in this slow chew limbo for so long this is an incredible uh dare say maniacal spreadsheet i have not seen the spreadsheet have you not no here i just want to believe i'm going to turn my computer around so that you can see it oh my oh my yeah so there's a box plot there, which I don't even know. Like, it's been a while. What do you do for a living? Are you a statistician?

No, I work in software product management. And so part of that I do some data analysis. So what we have here are, I'm not sure. So there's a box plot that is a graph of the average times taken per meal in seconds. Yes, that's correct. Sarah, Matthew, Ava, and Angie, where Sarah and Ava are your children, I presume. Yeah, Sarah is the three-year-old and Ava is the one-and-a-half-year-old. Right.

So what is being described here in this box plot? So this is really describing the range of finish time. So focusing on the box portion, the left hand of the box is describing the 25th percentile. So 25% of the data falls below this. The strong middle line is the median. So 50% of the data falls beneath that. And then that upper line is the 75th percentile. So 75% of data falls beneath that. And then that upper line is the 75th percentile. So 75% of data falls beneath that. Then you have your outliers to the sides as well. To a lay person, to a non-box plot pro, it would seem that the average finishing times, both in the median and the 75th percentile, Sarah takes a little bit longer than Angie. Am I misreading this graph, sir?

Has Sarah inherited the slow chew gene? I don't know if it's slow chew or more of a I don't want to eat, so we're sitting there cajoling her into actually taking a bite of food. So when she does eat, it's fairly quick, but a lot of the time she's just choosing not to eat. Gene, you can't see this data, but I'm sure it'll be self-explanatory when I tell you that the mean finishing time for Angie is 715.435 seconds with a standard deviation of 250.285. Oh, we were doing this in seconds? Yeah.

Oh. Whereas mean finishing time for Sarah, the daughter, is 741 seconds. I can't. I'm not translating this. With a standard deviation of 280.077. Right. So to me, it seems like Sarah is taking longer. Your evidence is not working for you, sir.

It's working against you. What am I misreading here in your spreadsheet? You know, I think that's a totally valid point for looking at it as a whole. valid point for looking at it as a whole. The main thing that I think sticks out to me to the data is it's not really on every single night we're dealing with screaming or complaining and currents. Thankfully, our children are pretty good. But when you look at in the percentiles portion, if you look at that 10th percentile, that's really where the issue comes in because our one and a half year old sit down and she's teething or whatever, just in a bad mood. So she'll pretty much instantly say she's done within a minute or so. So it's in those 10% of the times that Angie's taking more than twice as long as Ava in those instances.

Let's go to some more subjective data, specifically a photograph that you have sent in of a half or more or less. I mean, I don't I want to be really specific with my numbers now. I would say this is a point six seven finished piece of corn on the cob with the caption a picture of the maddening way Angie eats her corn. I see nothing maddening here, sir. It's simply a corn a cob that is 0.67 done. And also, by the way, it looks like a beautiful little noodle salad on the plate and the depth of field down there. It looks good. And a lovely plate. Yeah, lovely plate. And I like your corn holders, the little

spikies that you've got in on the end of the corn. How is this maddening to you, sir? So this corn, you might have to zoom in a little bit on the corn. But if you look at the kernels carefully, you'll notice. How dare you? You think I haven't zoomed in on this corn? I zoomed in while I was on the way over here. Yeah. I'm looking at all this evidence extremely carefully.

I apologize. I'm looking at this like Blade Runner style. I put it into a thing. I'm like quadrant three, five, two, five, six, two enhanced. And it goes and that's how I discovered those snake scales on the corn. For those of our listeners who might check this out on Instagram or Judge John Hodgman at MaximumFun.org, what should we be looking for to see the madness? So you'll notice no single kernel of corn is disturbed through her eating. So she eats perfectly, I believe, four rows of corn in each bite, taking great care to not accidentally touch the next row of corn. So this evidence is showing it's not that she's chewing for her health it's taking this excessive amount

it's the preservation of the kernels surrounding the already eaten right so each very meticulous there's no kernel that has been there's no overlap right of kernel damage right i mean you say maddening i say attention to detail It's an excessive attention to detail. When you grew up, Matthew, what was your family dinner table ritual like? Was it everyone sits at the table? Was it we all watch Benny Hill together with the salads in our laps? What was it? Now, I believe most nights we sat at the table and ate dinner together. That all being said, I know sometimes I was actually the slow eater, and so I got the timer set on me a decent number of times in my childhood of I had to finish before the timer.

But that was more of I was just messing around. Matthew, I feel like we're really glossing over this timer that you brought up just now. Do you mean just a general or an actual physical timer? Yeah, my mom would set the timer on the stove. Wow. So how much time would she give you to finish when she thought you were over time? I was not collecting spreadsheets of data back then.

So I don't know. Most people can remember trauma. In your heart. In your heart. What does your heart say? Roughly. Give I don't know. Most people can remember trauma. In your heart. What does your heart say? Roughly. Give me a ballpark. Like you have five minutes to finish that. Yeah, I would guess she would give me five to 10 minutes is what I guess. And I remember sitting at the table by myself there. Were you an only child? Nope. I have one older brother. You guys are both bringing a

lot to the table, literally and figuratively here. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of information in everyone's past that leads up to these moments. Yeah. Before we dig back into the past, Angie, how do you feel about the data Matthew has meticulously and weirdly compiled regarding your eating process? I mean, I guess I do have some concerns with it, specifically July 20th. I finished first of the four of us, and that data got mysteriously corrupted.

Oh! So it's not included. Where is July 20th on your spreadsheet, Matthew? He said he had an error in his recording. What were you having that evening, on the evening of July 20th? I think that was a wrap night, some sort of burrito or wraps. All right.

And then the very next week, we all finished at the same time, and also the data was lost. Oh, my. Interesting. But other than that, just the act of recording, it just made me feel so rushed and stressed out during. Yeah, it was really stressful and it wasn't a good feeling. I just want to go back to my normal pace. You mean that when you were sitting down at the table and Matthew had his data and he had a little stopwatch there and he had a magnifying glass for your corn, his table of dates and times, you felt a little rushed?

Just barely. It was weird. Another question. When you guys are not eating with the kids or if it's just the two of you, if you're going out to eat, is it the same situation or is it, you know, take your time? Or going out to eat with friends if that happens at all? I mean, I definitely am the last one done. But Matthew can just jabber on about something rather than get stressed about if the kids are behaving at the table instead. Is Matthew a generally a patient person or does he want, is he kind of a go, go, go type? He's looking at me waiting for my answer.

I'd say he's generally pretty patient. He's definitely grown in patience in our relationship to the point where he is a patient person now. Angie, I feel you. How long have you guys been married? 11 years this past Sunday. Oh, happy anniversary. Oh, wow. Thank you. Thanks.

And Angie, you're home with the kids during the day. Is that right? Is that your job right now? It is. Yeah. And so when it's just the three of you together and Matthew's not there with his stopwatch, how do you guys enjoy a lunch or a breakfast or a snack? A regular lunch and almost non-existent dinner. So breakfast and lunch, they're pretty hungry and they will eat for a long time.

And I eat a regular adult pace, I feel. And you sit down at a table and like have formal lunch and formal breakfast? Breakfast, I usually stand at the counter behind them. Right. So I can empty the dishwasher or something while they're finishing. But lunch, we usually all sit down together. Yes. Wow. That is some dedication, I have to say. When my kids were one and a half and three, I would just, you know, throw a piece of pizza in the corner. Of the room? Yeah. Make them fight for it. Go get it. Yeah. See what happens. Generally speaking, Jean Grey, did your mom's scheme to

have you all sit down at the table and have dinner together did that work did that happen yes yes um and for breakfast and then probably not lunches just because it was busy and having you know us coming from all places and living different lives probably a little bit right and then dinner yeah and it's a thing although it's just the two of us it's definitely a hey we're sitting down to have dinner and i'll and like you and your husband yes and um or whoever is like coming over and a definite like when the food hits the table get to the table well of course if someone's coming over but just for then you have to act like a human being but if it's just you guys, you'll sit down and just, wow, my goodness. No time for that.

I grew up a different way. Yeah. I'll tell you more about that after the verdict. Matthew, have you tried giving Angie a head start? Oh, I do pretty much every night. So I dish my food up last. I feed the dog. So the times in my glorious spreadsheet are from when I sit down at the table.

So at that point, the children and Angie have generally been eating for a couple minutes there. They've been at it for a while. Yeah. And you're coming late to the table, which is ruder, in my opinion. Oh, yeah. Angie gave a knowing laugh. Knowing laugh. When Matthew was a less patient person, how would his impatience manifest itself, Angie?

Oh, gosh, you're putting me on the spot here. I think he just, in general, he's very time sensitive, so he's always ready to get to the next thing. Right. Do you feel that you guys can enjoy this dinner together? Or is it just something for Matthew to get past in order to get to the next thing? I think in the future, putting in the time right now of everyone's at the table will pay off for us. Right now, we've got a three-year-old and a one-year-old. It's not the most pleasant experience at the table, but there are some nights where we have fun and we are able to talk about our day and it is pleasant yeah of course and is there anything else that i need to know matthew about angie's eating habits like does

she make gross mouth sounds yes yes she does oh no may i say sir that was a hard thing to admit on a public podcast. I appreciate that you took your fake oath of honesty seriously. And I appreciate your openness in saying, yes, my wife makes mouth sounds while she eats. Tell me more. And Matthew, do you have misophonia? I don't have misophonia. I've never really noticed it with anyone other than Angie. I've never really noticed it with anyone other than Angie she claims it's she claims it's

she has, she can jump in here she has large molars and as a result when she was a child they removed one so she has kind of a gap in the back so when she chews there's a lot of sound there and sometimes when it's just the two of us, I just don't know how so much sound is coming from her mouth. Matthew, can you describe how Angie is looking at you right now as you just go ahead and talk about her large molar problem as a child? Do you describe your wife's face? She's smiling and looking at me right now.

Angie, you know, this is more information than I expected coming out of. And I hate to tell you that it really does raise Matthew in this court's estimation that he is willing to be so open with us. But how do you feel about the secret of your big molars being revealed to my podcast audience? I mean, my parents spent thousands of dollars on dental work. So I guess it's, this is where we ended up. But I have nice straight teeth and they all fit in my mouth. So that's the best we can do. Do you challenge the fact that your molar alterations have made for strange sounds and you're chewing? No one else in my life has ever mentioned this. So i think it's just we've spent a lot of time together matthew if i were to rule in your

favor how would you want me to rule oh i thought a lot about this question i think in an ideal world that i don't know i thought a lot about this question and i have a flow chart i'd like to show you do you have do you have powerpoint go on do a lot of powerpoint in my work i'm sure you made a couple today actually Do you have PowerPoint? Go on. I do a lot of PowerPoint in my work. I made a couple today, actually. Oh. Do you have a spreadsheet of all your PowerPoints?

Go ahead, Sarah. If she could go some sort of aggressive food-eating competition training, like I can't remember that Japanese guy. I know that's not going to happen. So I think ideally, if the children are screaming or crying, if she could just finish and come back to her dinner later, just she says she's done

and then comes back and actually finishes only in those instances that the children are fussing about. Takeru Kobayashi. that's who you're referring to yeah japanese competitive eater eight guinness world records for eating hot dogs so she sets her meal aside to put an official close on family meal and later on once the kids are in bed visits yeah once the kids are in bed cold cold corn yeah right she. Maybe at 2 o'clock in the morning when you're asleep, she can focus on one kernel every 10 minutes.

Make sure it's perfectly eaten. Angie, what would you have me order if I were to order in your favor? Just that you may have caught on that Matthews goes to the 10th degree on everything. So just that he may never comment on any attribute of how I eat again or teach our children to do so. So this includes the pace, the sound, the quantity, and the blandness of my food. Oh my. I'm trying to be comprehensive.

What's the blandness comment? Oh, I come from a Northern European folk and Matthew comes from Southern European, so he likes things much spicier than me. Oh, I see. So, Angie, let me make sure I understand. You want me to prohibit comments on speed, style, sound, and seasoning, the four S's? Those four S's, right? Speed, style, sound, and seasoning. Very good. I'd also like to switch places at the dinner table so Matthew is closer to the child that

needs the most help. Oh, you guys sit in the same spots all the time? Yeah. So how has that been a problem? Is that a separate problem or is that a problem? Oh, no, it's mixed in because part of the time when I'm supposed to be eating my own dinner, I'm also helping the children. Oh.

Oh. I thought he was helping the children by making snide remarks. By mockery. I have an objection to this one. How would you say Angie is helping with the children versus how you are helping with the children? So my issue with this one is I distinctly remember during the data collection one night, I did not put it in the notes. I knew the younger child was going to be fussing that night, in the notes. I knew the younger child was going to be fussing that night, and I offered to switch positions, and she explicitly said no. So calling that out as a problem makes it sound like I'm unwilling to be helping out there when there's instances where I have tried to help out feeding

the children. Are you okay with switching seats then? Yeah. Yep. All right. Nolo Contandere there. And effectively that happens a lot of the nights. A lot of you are going to write in that I used Nolo Contandere wrong. Don't do it. I know I did it wrong. I'll figure it out myself. Remember how I looked up Kobayashi?

I'm bettering myself every time. If I do something wrong or I forget something, I'll look it up. I don't need you guys to write me. I'm sorry, Matthew. I was just pre-complaining to the listener. Sorry. So you were saying? I was saying effectively that swapping happens a lot of nights anyway. Really with the youngest, if she is crying, I might bring her over to my lap and then try to feed her from my lap. So that kind of ends up happening anyway. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I am going to go sit in a vat of hot dogs that I've kept safe from competitive hot dog eater Kobayashi, consider my verdict, and I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom and places himself in a vat of hot dogs. Matthew, Angie, how are you guys feeling? Angie, how do you feel that your case went? I think the judge is a reasonable man who sees the point of eating healthfully and eating slowly as part of that. And I think he'll back me in this case. Okay. Matthew, how do you feel? I mean, coming into this case, I didn't feel too strongly about, I know the court sometimes rules against weird dads and the husbands and whatnot, so it didn't feel super great. But I feel pretty

good given that Angie's main defense is she didn't like the data. And when people don't like the data, they just call it all into question. So when that's her only defense, I feel pretty good. Okay. Well, I actually have a lot of feelings and can relate to a lot of things. So I'm just going to talk over Judge John Hodgman when he gets back. And we'll see what he has to say about this when he comes back, and we come back in just a moment.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans?

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Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th, visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three

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Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. seated. First of all, Matthew, I overheard from my vat of hot dogs in my chambers that you were suggesting that Angie's defense is simply to claim that the data itself is

fake news, that it's corrupt. But it is, dude. Your data is corrupt. The two nights that you don't even record in this thing, when Angie finished first, how did that happen? Seems sus. I don't know what to trust in this spreadsheet anymore. It is not

comprehensive, so I'm throwing it out. Oh my. Mostly because I don't understand what a box plot is. But I will acknowledge, as both parties acknowledge, that the basic problem is there, which is that

Angie finishes more slowly on average than the rest of her family now two members of her family are little kids i'm telling you jean gray i did not grow up in a household i was just me and my mom and my dad it's just the three of us. And we had a few dinners around the table. And certainly if we had company, we would sit around the table. But I don't remember what was going on with me when I was two years old. Kids at the table are hard. They're kids. That's hard.

They're kids. It's difficult. I have two realms of experience here. One was as a young person, at least once I was fully conscious of being a human being, I was eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, certainly into 13. By the time I was 12 or 13, you know, we had all given up on being a family. As an only child, I was weirdly precocious. My parents wanted to move on with their lives. We just ate food out of our laps watching television together every night. There was no sitting down at the table. And then when we would go out to dinner, I would always have the walk-away option. Yeah. It's a great option.

It's a great, yeah. Like we'd go out to the Valley Steakhouse on Route 9 and I'd bring a comic book. And some cigarettes. Yeah, some cigarettes. And after I finished my food, I would be allowed to go and sit in the telephone booth and read my comic book. And some cigarettes. Yeah, some cigarettes. And after I finished my food, I would be allowed to go and sit in the telephone booth and read my comic book while they have a nice time together. That seems civilized to me. Yeah. The other realm of experience I have in this is as a parent, I feel a mixture of astonishment and admiration and confusion as to what you guys are doing.

Now, this sounds very judgmental. It's a judgy podcast. I apologize. It's right there in the title. It's right there in the title. You had to know that this was coming. I think the idea of having family meals with a three-year-old and a one-and-a-half-year-old, that's incredibly ambitious. Yeah.

Because they're barely human. They just got here. On the one hand, I want to say, let them run free. You know, make them do a good job. And then when they're done, let them get out of there. And then you guys can enjoy each other's company a little bit. Yeah. But on the other hand, I also know that if you keep this up as you do

they will get it the thing that i think of is my friend um sean nelson who is the a writer and musician in seattle he was the lead singer of the band harvey danger the song flagpole sitta you remember that one from the 90s? Sure. Incredible singer, incredible songwriter, wonderful guy. And he told us once about how his parents made him sit at the table until he was done. And if he wasn't done, they would force him to sit there for hours. And he remembers falling asleep with his head on the table several nights.

And I know, Angie, that you were left alone at the table as a slow eater. And I know, Matthew, that you had a different stimulus. You were shamed for being a slow eater. These are things that you remember. And maybe this is just me justifying the really slapdash job I've done as a parent to get my kids to sit down regularly for dinner. But I have to say that if maybe there isn't something, it might be a little better to just go a little easier on this idea. It's hard for this court to avoid the suspicion that Angie is visiting the sins of her parents upon her children by making them sit around with her when her own family wouldn't before. And that Matthew is visiting the sins of his mom upon his wife by wanting to put

a timer on her just as it was done on him. I will say this. Obviously, your intentions are incredibly good. You want to create a family dinner where you guys can share with each other and you're having some success at it. And I think with more discipline than I've been able to put into the raising of my own children, you'll have more and more success over time as you lay down reasonable expectations for the time that you all are there together as a family. But I think this is not a ruling. This is a thing for you to consider that maybe ease up on the data collection. Passive or, in your case, Matthew, active.

Mealtime can be an incredibly nourishing time for a family or it can be an extremely stressful time for a family. And what you want your kids to remember is not, my parents made me sit at the table while Mama ate each kernel of corn and have that be the story. You want them to remember having a good sit at the table while mama ate each kernel of corn and have that be the story. You want them to remember having a good time at the table. So, you know, it's your life. It's your family.

You can make whatever adjustments you want to make or zero adjustments at all. easing up a little in terms of both how long the kids have to sit there and just being a little bit more flexi flexi and don't count the kernels of corn so carefully and if i may interject very very very quickly um yeah i think it because it translates to not only uh shaping how you you know think down of eating dinner but it just translates to your relationship with food. And we should all try to have the most healthy relationship with food that we can. It kind of sticks with you. Yeah. So whatever you can do to set standards, but also be light about it, to not make the dinner time a chore.

And kids have a threshold that is shorter than most adults. It's very short. I think you set reasonable expectations. I think you guys are killing it so far. But what you need to do in order to make sure that it's fun for everybody is go easy, not only on the kids, but also on each other. Yeah. You know, Angie, slow eating is the worst thing in the world.

I'll be honest. There is a slow eater in my extended family. And it is hard not to wonder what the heck is going on as we adults are sitting there politely waiting for this person. I don't know what's happening. It does feel, you know, it sometimes feels as an act of aggression, you know, and especially if you're a kid waiting to get out of it

and mama's just like, chew, chew, chew, chew, chew, chew. At the same time, Angie, I want to respect the fact that you don't wolf your food like the monster Matthew that you are married to

who's got to get on to the next thing. Got to make those spreadsheets. Yeah, you got to fletcherize that food. You got to enjoy it. I love the way you eat corn. That's incredible. It's great.

It is a work of art. But you also have to make some acknowledgement that everyone's going at a different pace. And dinner is like theater. You know when the show's over. And there's little point in extending it past its natural life. It's reasonable to say to the kids kids you got to stay a little bit longer and then call it a day yeah but in order to make it the most enjoyable it can given the age of your kids you guys have to look at each other and silently understand like uh it's done now we got to move on with our evening and that

may not always be as soon as you want it to be, uh, Matthew, or as late as you would like it to be Angie. But of course, marriage is all about everyone being unhappy. So, so I would definitely say,

consider please putting down the actual or figurative stopwatches. Um, and don't let this become a point of contention is not worth it it's not worth it but since it is a point of contention i have to rule in someone's favor i am going to have to say there are two parts to this one angie should eat at the pace that she likes but she has to understand that when dinner is over for everyone else that she likes, but she has to understand that when dinner is over for everyone else, she can't hold them hostage to the table.

If you're going slow, Angie, you know, Matthew, be polite, stick around, but you got to let those kids loose. Maybe find a way to let them loose so that they can just play on the floor while you guys finish and have some time together or something else. And I also have to rule, though, no way, Matthew, can you be making comments about your wife to your kids? That is so, so obvious, my man. You can't be talking about how bland her food is. You can't be talking about how slow she chews.

And no matter how weird she eats her corn, your job is to be on the same side as your wife in the theater of dinner as it is Angie's job to be on your side. The communication between you about this has to be mutual and to a certain degree, silent and supportive. So I'm kind of finding half in Angie's favor. You can't make comments at the table like that, Matthew.

Also finding half in Angie's favor. You can't make comments at the table like that, Matthew. I'm also finding half in a separate count I'm finding in Matthew's favor, which is that Angie, when Matthew gives you that look, like it's really, we got to wrap this up. You may have to be like, I'll get back to this corn. You look down at that corn on the cob and you're like, I will see you later. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom well angie matthew how you feeling uh i know he said it's half and half but i feel this is a solid win for me i get to eat at my own

pace and uh not be made fun of for it. So it sounds great. Okay, Matthew. I also am claiming this victory. This is fantastic. I knew I shouldn't be making those snide remarks. So just reinforcing that. But I did hear that Angie needs to sometimes put a pause on it. I feel like we got to a really healthy place here today. And I'm really proud of everyone.

Matthew, Angie, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm glad everyone won today. That is another case in the books. Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Carol Sanchez for naming this week's episode, Requesting an Immediate Ingestion. If you'd like to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for Thank you. Reddit to discuss this episode. One more social media plug. The Judge John Hodgman account on Instagram, because I forgot to mention that Angie sent in some evidence that we will post on that. Fantastic. And it is a photo of, I believe, Matthew with four D batteries in his mouth. Mickey Ficky D batteries. Check it out. This week's episode was recorded by Tyler Hayden at Rocky Mountain Recordings in Denver, Colorado, and by Ivan Kurayev.

At Argo Studios in New York City, our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now let's get to Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Pushy M asks, should we save the twisty ties and plastic tab bag fasteners from store-bought bread to reuse? I say yes.

Husband says, why bother? I have never kept one of those in my life. I find them to be garbage immediately. That said, there's no reason not to keep those things. It's not a burden upon your husband if you keep them and try to reuse them. What I would suggest is hoard them in a little

cache somewhere out of the way and use them to make a little creepy doll of your husband. I was going to say you can make great dolls. Exactly. All right. I think that's it. Is that it?

That's it. Oh, that's about it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small. No case. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. No case. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.