Judge John Hodgman - Running Gag Order

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Colton brings the case against his friend, Chris, who loves to tell the same joke to his group of friends. Colton is TIRED OF IT. He says this joke comes up so much that talking to Chris gives him anxiety. But Chris says the joke is hilarious! Who’s right? Who’s wrong? With Guest Bailiff Monte Belmonte!Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething.We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman!Thanks to reddit user u/MayorPoopenmeyer for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Join at $5 a month at maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your humble, autumnal guest bay leaf peeper, Monty, sitting in for Jesse Thorn. This week, Running Gag Order. Have you heard the one about Colton? Colton brings the case against their friend Chris. These two guys walk into a bar, and Chris loves to tell the same joke over and over to his group of friends. Orange, you glad I didn't say that same joke again? Colton says Chris's joke puts the yuck.

in yuck it up. He says this gag comes up so much that it makes him want to gag with anxiety. Take my anxiety, please! He knows the joke is coming, and he doesn't want to hear it get to the other side. But Chris says the joke is hilarious and everyone else in his life agrees with him. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who's on first? Only one can decide. Knock knock. Who's there? It's Judge John Hodgman. Please rise as his honor and his honor and enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Well, Colton and Chris, thank you so much. We're out of time.

Thank you, Monty. What a delight to have you here. No, here comes an obscure cultural reference. Perhaps not as obscure to some as to others. Copper comes from Arizona. Peaches come from Georgia. And lobsters come from Maine. The wheat fields are the sweet fields of Nebraska.

And Kansas gets bonanzas from the grain. Old whiskey comes from old Kentucky. Ain't the country lucky. New Jersey gives us glue. And you, you come from Rhode Island, and little old Rhode Island is famous for you. Atumnal and somewhat humble, guest bailiff, Monty, please swear the litigants in.

Colton and Chris, please rise and raise your right hands. Monty, as you swear them in, do I have like about 45 minutes to go run an errand? Yes. Okay, great. Thanks. I'll be back. Now, Chris, pull Colton's finger. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, George Carlin, or whatever? I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that Judge John Hodgman knows how many podcast hosts it takes to screw in a light bulb? I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Chris and Colton, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgments in one of yours favors. can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom. Monty, I know you can. I learned it from you. Just like a dad strung out on drugs.

I learned it from you, Dad. I learned it by watching you. Yeah. We can cut that part out or keep it in. Those are the choices. Chris, Colton, which one of me wants to go first? I can only say, Chris, you're the Joker. Go ahead.

You guess first. Uh, I, I would have to guess it's some sort of tourism ad from, we'll say the 80s for Rhode Island. Tourism ad for Rhode Island from the 80s, aka Rhode Island, AKA Lil Roady, which is where we find both of you today. That's part of why I chose this particular cultural reference. What about you, Colton? You want to guess? Um, yeah, I'll go with a, uh, documentary about Rhode Island. Ooh. A documentary about Rhode Island.

Well, and Monty, do you want to guess? Well, I know the answer. Should I reveal it? Well, yeah. It's a song by Blossom Deary, who's probably most famous for her association with Schoolhouse Rock, but I will say that here in Western Mass, we have a musician named Aaron McKillan, who does a fantastic cover of that wonderful song that just puts all of our states in context.

And what is it called, Monty? Rhode Island is famous for you. Rhode Island is famous for you. and indeed it was perhaps most famously performed with all due respect. Aaron McKeown is an amazing person who everyone should follow. Blossom Deary's cover of it is perhaps the most well-known, although it was originally written in 1948 by Arthur Schwartz and Howard Dietz for a musical review called Inside USA.

Long before there was a Sufjohn Stevens, we were suffered to deal with a whole musical review with a song about each of 48 states. And it's one of my favorite songs. You know, Monty and I go way, way, way back, all the way back to Western Massachusetts when I would spend a lot more time there than I do now. And Monty, if you have not known him before,

please know him now. He is not only a dear friend of the show. He is our annual summertime, fun time guest bailiff, although summertime got a little bit away from us this time around. And so he's joining us here for a late summer hodown. here in the court of Judge John Hodgman. And Monty, long ago, you and your kids recorded an episode, well, right now, let's just, let's not go back to long ago.

Right now, Monty, tell us what you do in the meantime, in the real time, in the now time. I'm a radio host, which is like a podcast host, but that nobody listens to anymore. For a public radio station based in Western Massachusetts called NEPM, New England Public Media, and we host a daily afternoon show. I like to call it a conversation show rather than a talk show because it's not us giving our opinions. It's meeting the interesting people of Western Mass,

and it's called the Fabulous 413, which is the area code here. Fabulous 413 on New England Public Media. Check it out online, wherever you get your online's. And before that, you were, of course, the morning host, the local FM station there in North Hampton, Massachusetts.

And you and your kids co-hosted a regular, I don't know if this kid's show is still on the yard. Spare the Rock. Spare the Rocks. I think it's 25 years old now this year. Spare the Rock, spoil the child, hosted usually by Bill Childs, but guest hosted many times by the Belmonti family. That's right.

And one of the songs you played on your guest hosting of it was Rhode Island is famous for you by Blossom Deary. And that song has been stuck in my head ever since I'm always looking for an excuse to sing it. You might have heard me sing it on the Rhode Island episode of E. Pluribus Motto, the other podcast that I co-host with Janet Varnie, about the models of the states right there on Maximumfund.org where you get all your fine podcast, including this one. But now I'm seeing it here to Colton and Chris, who are in Rhode Island. Is that right, Colton? That's correct, yeah.

And are you in Providence, Rhode Island? We're in East Providence, Rhode Island. Whoa, excuse me. What's the vibe like in East Providence, then? Is that the cool part of town? Not particularly. I would say Providence is a little, a little bit cooler. I really stumped Colton with that one. Yeah.

Well, I mean, maybe the Brown University part of town or the RISD part of town is the cool part of town. Thayer Street. I love I love Providence. You love Providence, eh, Monty? I do. Yeah, you like Chris, you love Providence or East Providence, which is better? I mean, I would probably say Providence is better. Prov is better than East Prov? Yeah. You enjoy coffee milk, Chris? Well, so I'm more of a transplant, turd island. So it's it's grown on me, but not as much as others. Got it. Are either of you a native to the biggest little state in the union, Rhode Island, Rhode Island? Yes, I am. I'm from East Providence, actually, which is why it was such a difficult question to pit Providence and East Providence against each other. Colton, what did you think about Chris pooping on East Providence just then? Oh, it doesn't. Main Providence is better.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Oh. Any opportunity he can get to get to me. Do you like a coffee milk, Colton? I haven't had it in a long time, not since before I started drinking coffee. So I think it's probably time to go back and revisit it. Kind of a state beverage, right, wouldn't you say? It is our state beverage.

It's all I know about Rhode Island. Manta, you got anything you want to throw in there? Oh, I love Federal Hill in Providence, the Little Italy of Providence. We just turned up the volume on Manta. He's been listing things in Providence this old time. Oh, yeah. And now I can finally say them all. But, yeah, when I was a kid, I used to skip school just over the border in Norton, Massachusetts.

sits and the big dig was in Boston, so it was hard to get there. And I would go to Rhode Island all the time in the middle of the day and hang out with all the college kids at Brown. I got my first illegal tattoo underage on Thayer Street in Providence. Good times. Chris is right. Providence is pretty cool. East Providence, unfortunately for you, Colton, pretty drool. I don't know. That's true. I'm sure it's terrific. Colton, you are suing Chris for emotional and psychological distress. What is going on between the two of you? Yeah. So Chris continuously makes a joke where whenever I say something like, I'm hungry or I'm tired, he will respond with, hi, hungry, I'm Chris. I tired. I'm Chris. I got you. And that's enough to drive you bananas

and bring you to this court? To the point that it's gotten to, yes. Oh, okay. Well, we'll get to the point that it's gotten to in a minute. Yeah. Hi, Chris. I'm curious. Bye, Chris. I'm by curious. Chris, I'm curious.

That's a pretty bad dad joke. How do you justify it? I think first and foremost, Hi, Curious. That's a pretty bad dad joke. I'm Chris. Secondly, I justify it because I think people need

kind of a signature joke, something to fall back on. It's good to have that kind of regularity in life. Monty, you have a signature pun? No, but I have so many all the time. I think that my signature is puns. Your signature is wordplay, isn't it?

Yeah, right. Colton, this is Chris's signature joke. Would you agree? Yes or no? I would say yes, absolutely, at this point. Everyone knows Chris for telling this joke. Yes. Every, however remaining friends he has, knows him for telling this joke.

Okay. And how long has this been going on? This has been going on. I would estimate from 2018, probably. Okay. How did you two meet? Yeah.

So we were both RAs or resident assistants at a local college, and we met during RA training. And that was in Rhode Island? Yes, that was in Rhode Island, yeah. And so you went to college together. You graduated from college, I trust. Yes. Yes. Yep, we both made it through.

Or maybe it didn't work out. It doesn't matter. What does a degree mean these days? I don't mean to be judgmental. Well, no, I do. It's actually... You're a judge. Yeah, I forgot about that.

Well, first, I'm glad that you graduated from college, I guess, if that's what makes you happy. And now you still are friends. You live together, work together, live near each other. What's the pattern now? We're still friends, and we both work at the same college that we graduated from. So he's... We're in each other's lives more frequently than just like friends living apart or friends who interact occasionally. That's the dream.

Boy, oh, boy. You work at the college you went to. That's my dream, Monty. Why did I do any of this stuff? I don't know. And you are your best friend from that college. His name was Colton as well. That's true.

Jonathan Colton. No disrespect to Dave Guion and my other very close friend. I just don't know that close friend. I only know that one close friend of yours from college who happens to be named Colton. Why did I ever leave? Why did I ever leave college? I could still be there. Why didn't I just stay there?

Yeah. Oh, wow. Just stick her out. Just I didn't even need to be attending. Just live there. That's what I was going to do. Did you know that, Colton and Chris? I was just going to live in New Haven my whole life.

I didn't need to go to college. Just live there. Everything cost 50 cents. It was the cheapest place I'd ever live in my life. It is very convenient living on a college campus or being around a college campus where everything is cheap. I was just going to hang around there and hang around all those college kids like Matthew McConaughey and Dazen confused. All right.

Right. All right. That's how I was going to live. And then my wife, well, she was then my girlfriend, who's a whole human being in her run right then and now. My wife informed me that that would not be happening and I would be moving to New York. So that's what I did. And was it worth it? I have to say, probably was. Probably my life went in a more expansive direction than if I had just continued to live in New Haven and work at the video rental store. That was my dream. York is more expansive. It certainly is. New Haven was cheap. That's right. Okay. Signature joke from Monty Belmonte there. What were we talking about?

Oh, yeah. You guys live together. No, you don't. You work together at the same college where you went to college. And, Chris, do you remember the first time you ever made this quote-unquote joke? I don't remember the first time. It's... Do you remember when you first became aware of it?

I mean, when you've heard it from some... weird dad or other person in your life? I think it started, I'm always experimenting, trying new jokes and whatnot. And it kind of just, I did it, and it kind of stuck. It became easy, kind of just kept going and going. Yeah, you experimented until you perfected it with this one. Yeah, we got to hone your craft every now and then. Right.

Colton, you say that Chris's commitment to this joke can sometimes get very elaborate. How do you mean? Yeah, Chris has this uncanny ability to recall sentences. to a degree that I just don't understand. We'll be able to recall back full sentences of what I've said or what other people have said and just make people sit and wait and sit through the joke. In other words, if I were to say something like,

hi, Chris, I'm John Hodgman. Thank you very much for joining us on the podcast today. Looking forward to hearing more about this incredible joke that you tell to everyone in your life. Yeah, I'd respond with. Hi, John Hodgman. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I look forward to hearing so much about this incredible joke.

You tell everyone in your life, I'm Chris. Wow. And this seems delightful to me, Colton. Why are you so bothered by it? It seems like a parlor trick. It is great. I don't disagree that it has its moments where it can be funny. It's the degree to which it started happening,

where it would be it would just be like all the time every sentence and then it starts to put you on edge I'm not the only person in our friend group that has felt this way where you're kind of like dancing around sentences or having to rephrase

what you're saying because it can you know that it can trigger this joke you know no matter what you say Chris will inevitably be coming at you with this gag yes which makes it hard to get through sentences or conversations.

Chris, I'm going to ask you some questions now. Hi, Chris. I'm curious if you only do this joke with Colton or everyone in your life. Well, first, hi, curious, if you do this joke only with Colton or everyone in your life, I'm Chris. Secondly, it is a consistent thing amongst everybody. It's become something of a signature, like I said. I do know I've had a couple of like staff members I work with tell me they've had to explain who I am to their family members because they've made the joke and said I'm Chris instead of themselves so it's become kind of a widespread thing in my life and it's taken on a life of its own yeah Chris I'm wondering if everyone finds it funny I wondering if everyone finds it funny I'm Chris I'd like to believe that somewhere in the heart of hearts of every person there's a laughter for it I'm also hoping you have some evidence of this.

Hi, also hoping you have some evidence of this. I'm Chris. I do have some folks who like cheer when I do it. One of my coworkers, he'll like look at me every time somebody says, I'm like, oh, you're going to get him. I know when Colton had put in our Gref friend group chat for this joke, one of our other friends actually made the joke and introduced me. So I think it's taken on a life of its own and helped enrich everybody around me. I'm thinking it would be great if you had an example of a particularly elaborate one that you feel most proud of. I'm thinking if you had an example of an particularly elaborate one, you'd be most proud of them, Chris.

It's difficult to give a particular example because it is pretty consistent and frequent. Right. I think it does have to go back to where Colton was saying of like being able to really get the whole paragraphs or long sentences of people. You know, you do, you get that satisfaction of they then have to wait for you to finish. And it's, it truly warms my heart every time I can accomplish something like that. You don't have one that when you go to bed and I're like, oh yeah, I remember when I pulled that one. That was great. No, I, I, I like to look for the future.

I don't, I don't like to rest on my laurels. I like to keep kind of improving and going for the next one. Colton, do you remember one that was particularly elaborate? it sometimes it's easier to remember jokes that someone else made like that time that that time in in Brooklyn when the old laundromat the launder center was closing and had a beautiful mid-century sign and I suggested to Jonathan Colton different Colton not you Colton my friend Colton from college I said that we should we should rent out the old launder center and turn it into offices for us to make things but we should keep the sign

and still called it the Launder Center. And Jonathan immediately said without a pause. Yeah, and our motto will be the center will not fold. Think about that all the time. I was like, wow. I maybe had a joke like that once, but I don't remember my own jokes fondly the way I think of that one. But I was asking you, Colton,

is there ever a time when Chris, as annoying as you clearly find this, and as trying as it is to your friendship, which, by the way, may not last this podcast. I may decide you can't be friends anymore. I think we've both come into this willing to accept that verdict if necessary. Okay. There isn't one in particular that stands out.

It's more of the, like, essence of one that has probably happened multiple times. The ones that really stand out to me are the jokes where he's, where I will start to say I'm something. I will become exasperated during that. restart my sentence in that sentence then also say it and he'll get me right right again afterwards so he'll get you he'll get you in the reset he will get me back to back to back to back I like and the more flustered I get the more I can't think through it and the like the more likely I just I just start to react and then the sentences come out and and and I can feel I can feel him like sucking the life away from me uh while that's happening which only makes it

harder. Wow. All right. Let me try that out. Hi, Chris. I'm wondering if you could explain to me, oh, shoot, I just realized I set up a trap for myself. Never mind. Chris, forget that I said that. What I want to know is, why do you like Colton? Dang, I lost that one. If you pulled that one off, I don't know what I would have done. I had it. I almost had it. And then it just... Hi, Chris. I'm wondering if you could explain for me. Oh, shoot, I just set up a trap for myself. Let me start again. Chris, I hope you could tell me what you like about Colton. I wondering if, oh, shoot, I just set a trap for myself. Let me start again.

I was wondering if you could tell me what you like about Colton. I'm Chris. And I think we have a very similar vibe, a lot of the same interests and, you know, just for this one vibe. Well, I think I can come off as a general jokester. I think he appreciates a lot of my other jokes and my general witticism, but got it. You know, not everybody's appreciated in their time, unfortunately. Unfortunately, I'm glad there are other jokes and other general witticisms.

If it was literally only this, I can see why Colton would not be able to endure. Well, I mean, Colton, why can't you endure? I mean, how are you feeling right now as we test Chris and I'm setting him up? And, I mean, I don't want to tell you, I don't want to put words in your mouth because I have a feeling about it. Tell me, tell me how it makes you feel when you know that this is coming. it's it's a sense of dread and disappointment in myself it's wow I know that I know who he is I appreciate him and I like I said I do find I can acknowledge that the joke is funny at times but knowing that it's knowing that it's there and that it's

that he's so quick to pick up on it once I realized that I've laid that trap for him I'm the one to blame. Yeah. Can you ever remember a time when it was funny even once? Yes. Yeah. I'm talking to about to you, not in the world, but to you. When, where the joke was done directly at me

or where I witnessed the joke and found it funny. When you were like, that's a really funny joke, that was a good one. Nice going, Chris. I think You don't have to remember the specific time, but was there ever a time when this was funny? Absolutely. I think, and I think it's telling of, you know, Chris talked about the people that have started to repeat the joke, right? I think that is telling that it is a funny joke.

I think it also speaks to maybe how frequently he does it. But I think, I think the times where I found it funny, we saw our friends start making the joke more. and it became like commonplace until it got to a point where it was every, every sentence, every time we hung out. How large is the friend group, would you say? It's, it, maybe, I would say somewhere between like 12 or 13 people. Yeah, about a dozen. Yeah.

Okay. And Colton, would you say that you're alone in your feeling of frustration with the joke? I'm not. I made sure to put out a call for some testimony beforehand to get to get some other opinions to see if anyone else had any thoughts about it. And I know in particular the other friend that we spend a good amount of time with Simon, he also feels frustrated about the joke, particularly that it stifles the opportunity for other jokes. I do we have any testimony from Simon I can or others I can read the the statement that he wrote if you would like yes let the record show that Colton is going into his jacket pocket to pull out I hope a peanut brittle can full of snakes I forgot that was the other pocket sorry wrong pocket okay yeah oh no he's brought out his phone to read testimony we're going to enter into the record exhibit A this is testimony for from Simon? Yes, Simon. A real person. A real person.

Okay. So, Simon says, Hi, Colton, the Hi, I'm Chris joke has created a joke monopoly that should be broken up. For too long, this joke has been lurking at friendly gatherings and weeknight game sessions. It is negatively impacting the development of other potentially better material. The joke itself is not the problem. It's the lack of other consistent jokes that pose the issue here. Limiting or banning this joke will provide.

much-needed comedic evolution and help us find more, even more creative ways of watching the light leave our friend's eyes. Hi, Chris. I'm wondering how you respond to Simon. Hi, wondering how you respond to Simon. I'm Chris. I think it's important to recognize the evolution that's also taken place within the joke. As we've kind of touched upon a little bit before, there are lots of other people who've

kind of taken it on themselves, done their own things with it. I recently gave Simon himself a role in the joke. you know, he'll hit people with Bazinga afterwards and really add a different layer to it. So I think I hear the criticism, but I think it's not taking into account the way it's evolved over time, kind of taken on this life of its own and breathed something new through kind of our joking capacity. Colton, do I understand the substance of Simon's testimony is that he would like Chris to stop? I think he's okay with limiting the joke as a lot.

well, which I think when I brought these charges, I specifically said, I was okay if he didn't stop in entirety. He could, it could be limited to three times a year. I think that could potentially make the, the joke stronger, right? If he really has to think about when to use it. But I, but I do think Simon would be okay if, if Chris, as someone who we think is funny, found other material. You're not, you're asking Chris to stop. I, I am, well, I, I do think the joke is funny. I would, I would say, if it, if it comes to that where it's, he's asked to stop, I would, I would love that. But if it happened less frequently, that might make, that might make things less, uh, dreadful. You want me to order that Chris never make this joke again?

How can I do it? When Simon has already said, Simon says, Simon says, stop making the joke. And Chris says no. Simon says it. You're right. As Chris is someone who studied political science, I'm hoping that he will respect your, your determination over Simons. I was just trying to make a Simon says joke. Oh, it was great. No, I appreciate it. Well done. Well done.

I was trying. I was doing my best. It was great. I'm interested in knowing if you ever feel compelled to make this joke. I'm interested in knowing if you ever feel compelled to make this joke. I'm Chris. I don't think so. I think there have been plenty of occasions where I've opted not to, whether it be serious situations

where it's just not appropriate. Or, you know, sometimes you got to let it breathe a little bit so that it hits a little harder the next time it comes around and kind of juggling that in my mind while holding conversations does take a fair amount of effort and skill. So if you miss an opportunity to make it, you don't feel frustrated with yourself or disappointed? No, I hope that it'll always come back around

and there will always be another opportunity to make the joke. Colton, how does this joke affect your life with Chris? I think that it allows me to be less present in our friendship. I think the amount allows you or forces you. Sorry, forces. Yeah. It prevents me. It prevents me.

No, no, no. I'm able to be present. I might allow you to be less present in the friend. Or I might force you. I'm not sure yet. I think that I just can't be as present when during the more intense times of the joke, the more prevalent times. I have been absolutely just like.

like, riddled with stress, speaking with Chris, uh, trying to avoid those sentences or those, that trigger for the joke. Yeah, no, I understand what you mean. I mean, it, it does sort of make you think on two different levels when you're talking to, I'm thinking about what I'm going to say to Chris now and I've got to be really careful. Mm-hmm. Don't say it. Chris.

I heard it. I was going to let it go, but I heard it. You were going to let it go? Yeah. Well, all right. I admire that because you didn't jump in. You can't, like I said, you can't hit everyone. You got to let it breathe a little bit sometimes.

Colton, you express that you feel anxiety sometimes when talking to your friend, Chris. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that anxiety feels like? Yeah, I think the anxiety is feeling like I am not able to speak freely. I feel stifled. I think when I'm interacting with him, there's almost always this layer of when, when am I going to slip up or when is he going to get me because I'm unaware of myself

and what I'm specifically saying. Or if I slip and let that, let that I'm or I am out at any point. I would feel both profoundly, sort of listened to to the point of being surveilled as Chris is listening to the for the setup and at the same time not being heard at all

because Chris is listening to this one thing. Absolutely. He's listening just for the words. He's not listening to what I'm saying. I would disagree with that wholeheartedly. I think I'm listening exactly to what you're saying so much so that I can reiterate it back to you. I would disagree with that wholeheartedly. I'm Judge John Hodgman.

I don't think I did it right. We'll keep working on it. We'll get there by the end of the show. But I would ask then, Chris, you disagree wholeheartedly. Tell me how. So, again, I think I do listen very intently and very intentionally to the words, both to make the joke and to hear them. But also, I think too often in our vocabulary, we fall into kind of routines and ruts. And this is one of my ways of kind of helping people break out of that a little bit, you know, find new ways to express.

themselves in a way that doesn't involve using those words in that, that order. The words, I am. Correct. When did you become aware that you could recite what everyone had just said verbatim over and over again? There must have been an aha moment where you recognize this talent. I say it was probably a little bit into kind of doing the joke fairly regularly. You kind of keep pushing it and pushing it. And at a certain point, you kind of go, oh, like this is.

a weird, very niche skill that I apparently have to do this. Let's keep going and let us to where we are today. When Colton expresses that despite your skills and your sense of humor and everything else, that it still makes him feel anxious, how does that make you feel? I think it's important to interrogate that anxiety a little bit. Because I think part of the growth that I'm hoping to engender in others comes from that, that place of anxiety and kind of getting, overcoming that to get to a better place. What is the growth you're trying to engender keeping people from using the present

participle? I don't, I hope that's, I hope that's the present participle. I'm not sure. We'll ask Emily Brewster from Marion Webster. So the kind of that expanding of the lexicon of utilizing different verbiage in kind of how they speak and go about their lives. to honestly try to hit at more exacting phrases in things that better describe what's going on than just falling back on saying, I am, whatever.

What's wrong? By the way, I was correct. It is the present particle. Particle. Yes. By the way, I was corrected, is the present participle that we're talking about here. And what's so bad about it then? I think it's too commonplace, in my opinion, that people just default.

to it and it's it's not bad per se i just think there are better ways to go about doing it but how long have you been friends again remind me almost 10 years yeah and 10 years of this going on this joke going on right close to about seven or eight okay all right so but chris don't you think colton's gotten the message by now i think he's been more resistant than others but i think we'll get there So when I ask you, Chris, how do you feel about the fact that this makes your friend Colton anxious? Your answer is, I don't care. It's all part of the process. Yeah, I think if you stopped resisting me, he'd be less anxious.

What is he? How is he resisting? What is he supposed to do? He's supposed to expand his verbiage and use different phrases. Colton, what do you, what do you think that Chris genuinely wants to expand people's verbiage? Not in the slightest. Do you think that's just something

he's bringing to the court of Judge John Hodgman to distract me? I think Chris is an antagonist. And I'm saying that in as lovingly a way as possible. And I think that he finds that this is a justifiable reason for him to be an antagonist. But what do you mean by antagonist?

To just get to people. to just, right, like I, like in that text from Simon earlier, he, he talked about, like, Simon talked about seeing the life drain away from people's eyes. I think Chris lives for that a little bit in some moments. Um, and so he antagonizes in this way and has found, to watch the light die in people's eyes. I don't know if I'd phrase it that way, but I can't say I disagree. Okay, fair. look Chris knows himself I so I think I think that he has found a consistent way where it's just frustrating enough for most people to brush it off as a joke and be like oh like

that's annoying whatever uh but Chris and I spend a significant amount of time together since we're friends and we work in the same place yeah I would say that I am probably in the top three victims of this joke. And I am curious. I do wonder if he does it more because he knows that it gets to me this much. Chris, in your work, are you interacting with college students

undergraduate age or graduate age students? Yeah, so I work directly with a large group of undergraduate students, yeah. And do you pull this feces on them? 100%. Yes. and what is your reaction? I mean,

how have you not been murdered by eye rolls at this point? It does happen occasionally. I think most of them have recognized the skill that goes into it to some degree. It's a lot of begrudging respect of, you know, that was a good one, but also come on, man. But, you know, like I said before, not everyone's necessarily appreciated in their time. I think people will come to respect the genius of my work as time goes on. and are you hoping that Colton will will document your sense of humor and bring it forward like like what's his name who talked about Aristotle Plato

Plato talking about Aristotle yeah I think as is mentioned before it's kind of taken on a life of its own and grown beyond where we are you know me as a person it's become more of an ideal and a joke in its own right with its own legs that people will we'll talk about for ages to come, hopefully. Colton, it says here that your ideal ruling is that Chris would limit doing this joke to three times per year around you. That's what I have. Is that correct?

No, that is not correct. I would prefer that it be limited to three times in total. For the rest of your lives? Oh, sorry, per year. Three times total per year. Sorry. To you? No.

To anyone. one. Oh, that's the in total. Three times per year for Chris. Yeah, but even though Simon doesn't like it and you don't like it, it doesn't sound like anyone else's thought to write a memo or appear on a podcast about it. I think other people have feelings, but maybe not strong enough to to articulate an argument against it. I felt like Simon had the strongest support and also brought in ideas that maybe I hadn't considered initially. So you and Simon speak for the voiceless many who refuse to stand up to Chris. Absolutely, we do. Is that a genuine feeling that you have? I feel like maybe we are the only ones who would take it seriously enough to confront Chris about it, whereas others might brush it off and not acknowledge the frustration that they have or the stress that might come from sitting in wait while he,

while he executes the joke. So Chris is out here telling you and the world that your feelings of anxiety don't matter and aren't true, whereas you and Simon are saying that everyone else who hasn't complained about this is, it doesn't know their own feelings and you have to tell them two of them. Yes, yes. Sure. Holden is three times per year, whether you're there to hear it or not. Why not zero? Why not zero times around you as opposed to three times around anyone? I think Chris is a funny person.

I think he, I think that he has, I think that he, no matter what, I don't, I don't want to take a joke that he loves away from him forever, but I am trying to relegate it to three times for year. Yeah, yeah, that's, I'm okay with that. I think that by limiting it, he will be more intentional about the joke that he's making. He will, like, he will be discerning and say, like, this is the right moment to use this one of, one of three.

But at this point, it seems to me, Chris, it's just like a, almost like a verbal tick for you. It's just you hear it and you do it automatically. Yeah, to some amount, yes. Do you, well, I would like you to be present in your relationship. with your friends, even if they don't feel present with you. Don't you want to just have a conversation from time to time without listening for a place to make a joke?

I'd like to believe that I... God or whatever knows, I wish that my brain could operate that way. I'd be so much happier if I could just be with my friends instead of waiting for the joke that I can make. Again, I think it leads to an increased presence because I take in the words they say more intentionally and really take the time to sit with them in my own world. way. How do you feel about Colton saying that you are an antagonist? Again, I don't know if I'd necessarily phrase it that way, but I do, I like to poke.

Antagonist, of course, in literary definition, has no moral quality to it. It does not mean that it's the bad guy, right? It just means that the person who stands for whatever reason in opposition to what the protagonist wants to do, like simply say hi to. a friend or play a game of d and d without being harassed by a joke or whatever in that sense do you feel like you're someone who likes to kind of poke at people and and get them to think a second time about what they're saying or doing i mean sounds like that to me yeah i would i would say that's a correct categorization what else are people doing wrong that you that you notice so i think the issue with that is we'd be here for hours if we kind of got into that kind of topic of conversation we hire an editor to

make this, you know, to cut this down. So let's, let me, let me hear a couple of hours of material and we'll decide how much we use. Tell me some of the things that people do wrong. I mean, just generally speaking, uh, it vexes me how much indecision there are in people, you know, kind of making judgments or kind of standing in the way while they figure things out and not, you know. Indecision. Okay. The, the prime example I use is when I'm in like a restaurant and somebody standing in front of the cashier looking at the menu it's like no get out of I know what I want get out of my way okay I feel you with that one for sure you have a joke on deck that you want to try out if I were to rule against you not not currently um I mean I hardly know

there's always a good one to kind of fall back on um but yeah you got it you got to kind of it's part of that experimentation you got to you got to try things out you know sometimes you think it'll go one way it doesn't quite you got to really workshop it before I can't I I don't have an exact answer of what might come next. Colton, do you think that you have an idea of what Chris might try next? I don't think I have an idea of what will come next. I think that it will be, I think that I will be the person subjected to his trials, though. I do understand that that's a possibility with this rule.

Are you concerned about retribution? That if I were to rule in your favor and now Chris has to come up with a new joke to torture, you with that it will be even more intrusive and distracting and we'll go on for 17 years instead of just seven. I expect you would hear from me a lot sooner. I don't think if it went in my favor for this one, I would not let seven years go by before submitting again to for to get another ruling. Uh, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. Simon says stand, please rise will I go and enter my chambers. I'll be back in my moment with the verdict. Simon already said it, so I don't even have to say it. He already, we already wrote.

and Judge John Hodgman has already exited the courtroom. Well, Colton and Chris, this is an interesting topic for sure. Chris, you have these extraordinary powers of recall. Are you using your powers for evil? Do you use these recall powers for anything more constructive and less annoying? I mean, sure. Like, for instance, just the other night, we did, like, a puzzle game, and I was able to use it to kind of clue together certain pieces of it.

I think it's just a general almost like a like a practice in a way where it's it's kind of just honing that a little bit more and more and kind of getting to a place where I can use it more generally. So to win games on your own is when you're using it for good? What was a team game? We were on the same team. All right. I'm a dad and it is my Godgiven right to annoy my children with annoying jokes. Have you thought about parenthood, Chris? Hi, a dad, and it's my God given right to annoy my children's fun.

I walked right into that one. I mean, I think there's a certain level of comedy that comes out of anoints, kind of that little jab you get from those sorts of things. But you didn't answer my question. So were you listening? Have you considered parenthood? So you can have kids and torture them? And then they can't escape you.

I have not considered parenthood. I have a couple of cats. And that's about as far as I'm looking to get. Colton, is there a most inappropriate time that you have heard this joke used that you were particularly anxious? Not necessarily a most inappropriate. time. I do think Chris is respectful of that. I will say, you know, he talked about this, this team game that we were doing the other, the other night. And he talks about using this,

this power for good as like a, as a cohesive, cohesive strategy. At the same time, he forgot to mention that he also made the high, I'm Chris joke 12 times that night. This was over the course of like six hours, just to be clear. So, you know, even when he's using it for good, he's also So he's also still using it for antagonizing. Well, Chris, I'll recommend for your follow-up joke that when people say things like, can you make me a hot dog sandwich? You could say, poof, you're a hot dog sandwich. So that's just kind of a follow-up, annoying dad joke that you can use and workshop if the judge does not rule in your favor. And we will see what the judge has to say about all of this when we come back in just a moment.

We're going to take a quick break from the case, and I'm sitting here with my good friend Monty Belmontie, joining us from Western Massachusetts, where he co-hosts the fabulous 413 with Kalees Smith on New England Public Media. Where can we find that on our radio dials and on our internet dials, Monty? If you happen to be in Western Massachusetts, you can listen on 885 through most of the valley where you used to spend your summers. We have a bunch of other frequencies throughout the four counties of Western Mass. You can go to NEPM.org or listen to the podcast, wherever podcasts, are available, as they say. That's NEPM, New England, public media.org. The fabulous 413 is a daily conversational show from Monty and Kaleas, and it's so much fun. And I'm so glad you're here as our humble autumnal bale leaf peeper.

It is getting into fall, and that must mean that Monty's Mark. is just around the corner. Tell us all about it. The March for the Food Bank, which I'm loath to call Monty's March, but the alliteration was too irresistible. It wasn't your idea. No. It was a 43-mile-long march over two days in November where I push an empty shopping cart from Springfield, Massachusetts to Northampton, Massachusetts on one day, and from Northampton, Massachusetts to Greenfield, Massachusetts on the second day, raising money and awareness in ridiculous publicity stunt fashion for the Food Bank of Western Massachusetts, which

with all of the federal cuts is really hurting in particular this year, as are the people who rely on the food bank, who are doubly hurting because of the cuts to snap the supplemental nutrition assistance program. So we're trying to raise on November 24th and 25th of this year over $600,000 for the people of Western Mass who rely on the food bank. Monty, you've done this for how many years now? This will be the 17th year. Wow. That's incredible. And when it started, was it always from Springfield to Greenfield or where how long did it how did it develop it started from Northampton to Greenfield which was 26 miles in marathon length and seemed like a long enough way to march right

but the more I learned about food insecurity and hunger I realized that south of Northampton which is a largely affluent largely white community there were people who were relying on the food bank even more so than in the northern part of this area and their stories were not being told So I said, let's go south of the tofu curtain, as they say, and begin telling the stories from Springfield and Chickapy and Holyoke where people are even more reliant on the work that the food bank does. And now when you do the walk from Springfield to Northampton and then on to Greenfield, you're joined along the way by supporters, right? Yeah, there are at times dozens, at times hundreds of people who are marching some are all the way. everybody from school kids to our entire elected delegation on Beacon Hill in Boston to our U.S. Congressman Jim McGovern who goes the entire 43 miles every year, despite the fact

that the first day is not even, he gets right in the cart and I push him. He's getting a little bit long in the tooth. But the first day is not even his district. He just cares so much about the issue that he wants to lend his support to it on both of the days. Food insecurity is a bigger problem than ever right now for all the reasons that Monty mentioned, whether you were of or below the tofu curtain, I hope that you will consider supporting Monty and the march for the Food Bank of Western Massachusetts, either by joining along the way, spreading the word, or donating. How do they find out more, Monty? You can find out all the details by going to foodbank WMA.org. It's the Food Bank of Western

Massachusetts, Foodbank, WMA.org. Foodbank WMA.org. And when will you start walking? We're going to do a mini-march in the Berkshires for the first time to really incorporate all four counties on the Saturday, the 22nd of November, but the real, the 43 miles begins on Monday, the 24th, and we'll continue on Tuesday, the 25th. Thanksgiving week. And Monty, are there any social media areas where people can follow you? Yeah, you can follow at Monty's March, at March for Hunger. You can follow NEPM at any p.m. on all of the handles and places. Wonderful.

And I just want to thank everyone who came out to watch They Live With Me last week at the Prospect Park Nighthawk Theater. It was a lot of fun, one of my favorite movies. I arranged this screening over a year ago to show. I mentioned Dave Gionne earlier in the podcast. I have been trying to get Dave Gionne to watch this movie since freshman year of college. And after a year of planning to get it into the Nighthawk, I'm proud to say he still has not seen it.

We had a great time, and I've still got my goal. Wow. We all need goals in this life. One of the greatest fight scenes in all of movie history. They live, and it's actually a more pertinent message than ever. John Carpenter's, they live, if you haven't seen it, why don't you go watch it, Dave Guion, finally, or anyone else within the sound of my voice? Anyway, thanks very much for coming out for that, and please, I'll just drop in a plug right now. Remember, you know, we don't have to tune into the news all the time.

It can be very distressing. It can be very frustrating, but change happens when we make it. If you're starting to tune into the elections, your local elections this fall, please do. Please be active in your local elections. Find a candidate you support and volunteer for them. Find a candidate who reflects your values. And if you're able to donate to them, as you know, I am supporting Zoran Mamdani here in New York City. And as well, I am really, really excited about the campaign of my friend and oyster supplier,

Graham Platner, up there in Sullivan, Maine, who has run unseat Susan Collins. Who are out? Oyster supplier, it's like, I'm not wholesaling oysters here. Graham has an oyster farm. The walk-eg-neck oysters that he raises with Rob are incredible, but frankly, he's devoting himself to something even more important than raw oysters in my mouth, which is trying to save us all from this oligarchy. So please consider looking up Graham for Maine, G-R-A-H-A-M-A-M-A-N-E. All right, that's everything. Those are the plugs. Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So I also would have thought, now that I've gotten a chance, to know Chris, and by the way, I like you, Chris, and I like you, Colton. You seem like good friends up there in East Prave. When Chris says, I think people using the present participle is lazy, and I am trying to trick them out of it over a now, nigh, decade-long campaign of shocking them into recognizing when they use that construction, Colton, you said you didn't believe him for an instant. I'm starting to believe him. him. I'm starting to believe him. I'm Judge John Hodgman. I got there first. Third base.

It does make you think a little bit more about what you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree that the cold isn't wrong when Chris says that we should think a little bit about not using that construction so often because to say, I'm thinking about or I'm wondering if, or I'm considering that maybe, or I'm sort of feeling all of that kind of middle manager meeting talk is indirect and indecisive in ways that obviously cause Chris some distraction, for example, when someone is indecisive about what food they wanted a restaurant. It's unacceptable, apparently, to go into a restaurant without knowing what you're going to order right away. Chris feels that way.

And indecision, it is somewhat less direct to be using that present, part of sort of, I'm thinking I'm going to say this, instead of simply saying, I say this. I don't think that the lesson that Chris is trying to teach is necessarily wrong. We should be aware of our verbal ruts and getting our wheels stuck in them. And I do think that we should also be aware of speaking more plainly instead of getting caught up in our minds and our verbiage and the message of how we're feeling or what we're trying to convey gets lost in our own hesitation.

That said, people get into all kinds of ruts in their life. And there's a little bit of Chris saying, I do this in order to shock people out of their routines that we're, reminds me of the multiple, the multiple husbands and male partners of heterosexual relationships who love to scare their spouses. I don't know why guys like to do this, like jump out of closets. Like, hey, I'm just trying to liven things up here. Because the reality is that it does put the other person on edge. And I can tell you for sure that I have been completely into brain spaces, this entire conversation.

The pleasure that I take in doing Judge John Hodgman, right, is having an open conversation with people that I've never met before and getting to know them. And it's a real hindrance to pleasant conversation to feel that I am being listened to and judged and way. and about to be pounced upon by the other person. That's my role in the podcast, not your role, Chris. You're supposed to feel judged by me, not the other way around. But it is the case that when you are listening to yourself, right? Chris argues that this makes everybody more present, but I disagree. When you are listening to yourself speak and monitoring the words that you are saying,

because you're afraid that your friend is going to make a joke out of you, that's not fun. That's not friendship, exactly. Similarly, Chris, when you are waiting for the cue, the present participle cue, even though you are clearly very adept at it and it is a kind of very fun party skill, I acknowledge, you might be missing the fact that your friend, Colton, is saying, I don't like this. this makes me feel anxious.

Not I'm feeling anxious. I anxious. I'm John Hodgman, the judge. But I hope that Colton can simply say to you, this makes me feel anxious. I feel anxious when you do this. And the appropriate response is to say, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'll stop doing it. At which point Colton should say to you,

I'm sorry I didn't realize this I'll stop doing this I'm Colton I there's no way that I'm look you know this is I don't do improv comedy right and I appreciate Chris that you are laying back that's an important skill in improv is to know when to jump forward and make and get your jokes in and when to lay back and support to the other person right all of conversation is improv in this regard, right? You have to judge when to come in and say your thing or make your joke. You have to judge when to be super sincere.

You have to judge when it's okay to be a little snarky and sarcastic. You have to judge when it is fine to just be ridiculous, right? And then you also have to judge when you lay back and let the other person talk, right, to do whatever they're going to do. And I do appreciate that you do lay back. You lay back on this joke from time to time, both because, and you use your own words, like sometimes it's inappropriate, which I'm glad that you acknowledge, and then other times when you just want to let it go. But I do think that regardless, laying back is supposed to support the other person, not laying in wait. You see what I mean?

It's like letting the other person talk and be the whole human being that you like. right? But I think that when your friend says to you directly present, participle or no, I don't like this. This is not fun for me. That is not when a friend says, your anxiety is the point. Your anxiety is what I'm trying to create. That's when a friend should say to you, oh, well, then you're not a safe person for me to be around, goodbye forever. You know, you're not there to instruct your friend, at least not Not longer than seven years, up to 12 times an hour or whatever it was, you did.

12 times in six hours, you did your job. Now, let's try him to lay back and support Colton. Now listen, I don't care what any of these other people think. No way am I ever going to rule that Chris can't make this joke or can only make this joke three times per annum whether Colton's there to hear it or not. I don't know. It's Chris's life to enjoy and ruin as he sees fit. And there are other people who may enjoy this joke a lot. It's not for me to say, and it's not for you to say, Colton, who does or does not enjoy this joke? But I will say that around you, the joke has got to move on.

And it is time, Chris, for you to accept the challenge of the new joke. which I trust will be equally torturous to Colton in a way that both amuses you and shows your friend that you actually care about him and how he feels. So I do rule that the joke stop between you and Colton. Please develop a new one. This is the sound of a gavel. Not funny! Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. The judge has ruled in your. favor, Colton, how do you feel about not being subjected to this particular joke ever again? I feel great. It feels freeing. I'm a little nervous about whatever joke he'll make on the way out, but I'm prepared. I said I would accept it. I would. I'm still excited that it happened and that the ruling was in my favor. Chris, you got any front runners for what the new joke will be yet? I know you said earlier that you didn't, but there's got to be something brewing in that remarkable brain of yours. No, I'd like to engage in a more organic process.

I think it'll be a bit of a time kind of workshopping different things. Kind of, it's an exciting new era to kind of see where it takes me. Another case in the books. Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Reddeter. Mayor Pupinmire for naming this week's episode. What a bunch of jocksters we have out there. Running gag order is the name of the episode. Join the conversation over at the Maximum Fun subreddit over at Reddit.com slash R slash maximum fun.

We'll be asking for title suggestions there too, so keep an eye out for those. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We're also on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman pod. Follow and subscribe to see our episodes and video only content. Speaking of video only, we are on YouTube. If you are not watching us on YouTube now, won't you please go over to YouTube.com slash Judge John Hodgman Pod is the name of our channel where all of our episodes are available in lovely full-color video even, Monty Belmontie, including Monty Belmontie, whom you maybe

have never seen before in person or on video in your life. Now is your chance. Please go over there, like, share, and subscribe. Our YouTube comment of the week comes from, let's see here, Owls, need love. Owls need love. That's true. Owls Need Love says, I can't believe this show comes out every

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if you want to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or share it or just tell a friend, by all means, please do it. It's really, really helpful to us. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and me, John Hodgman. This episode was engineered by Dan Phillips

at Redina Creative Lab in East. Providence, Rhode Island. Don't let them ride you. East Providence. Rhode Island is famous for you, East Providence. The podcast is edited by AJ McKee, and our video editor is Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. And thanks to our interim social media manager, Natty Lopez, for stepping in and filling the void with wonderful memes and TikToks and everything else. Now, Monty, do we have some swift justice? Okay. Let's get to that swift justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. ESDSB on the Max Fund subreddit says,

I think that when there is a tie for first place, the next person should be second place, not third. Every sport governing body disagrees. What does the judge say about that one? I mean, if there's a tie for first place. Yeah. Why isn't that? What sports?

You know sports. A little bit, but I didn't know this. I don't know sports where there's like a first, second, third, like a racing or that kind of thing. you know, this doesn't make any sense to me either. I fully agree that if there's a tie for first, there are two people in first, as implausible as that may seem.

And I'm certainly not being dumped down to third. Yeah, no. No. So then who of the two firsts is second? Neither. That's a really good point. If you both get perfect scores. Yeah.

Then you are tied for first. I mean, I think that's just how it goes. And the next person would be second. I don't, wow. Well, look, I mean, I mean, obviously, as DSB, we are in agreement with you, and even though I don't understand what you're talking about, I agree with you, and it gives me great pleasure to be on your side against every governing sports body.

But if you know, if you listener know something about this that neither Monty nor I know, won't you please let me know by going to maximum fund.org slash JJHO, that's where you submit all of the disputes that we need in order to make the show go. We are still looking for cases to bring before a friend of the court, Nick Offerman. Did you know that? Nick Offerman's going to come and we're going to clear a docket with Nick. Oh, that's fun. So if anybody's got a dispute surrounding mustaches or woodworking or Parks and Rep plot lines

or devs plot lines or anything that you think that Nick Offerman might want to weigh in on and boy, oh boy, that guy's a very wise fellow. You can just send us any of your interesting disputes or peccadillos

that you think Nick Offerman might have something to say about in that beautiful, Meliflu's voice of his. And you take them, you write them down, and you send them in to Maximumfund.org slash J.J.H.O. Boy, is there a very simple form to fill out there? or you can email it to me directly at Hodgman at Maximumfund.org. And as always, we're eager to hear of all of your disputes,

no matter how big or small. You may not even know. It's like, is this a dispute? Tell you what, I'll decide. Send it to me, Hodgman at maximum fund.org. We love hearing your disputes. I read everyone that you send in, and they make the show go. So thank you.

So, Monty, you will be back with us for another autumnal episodes. Good old, we'll do some leaf peeping together soon, right, Monty? I hope so. We miss you in Western Mass. We'll be back to Western Mass. And in the meantime, if you want to visit Western Mass, at least in your own mind, go to New England Public Media or tell your smart speaker to play New England Public Media, specifically, fabulous 413. It's a wonderful show, and it's a great, great radio station. All right, we will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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