Judge John Hodgman - Schnapp Judgment

Episode Date: April 9, 2015

Is Jonas a snob for preferring more expensive liquor?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, schnop judgment. Eric brings the case against his friend, brother-in-law, and drinking buddy, Jonas. Jonas prefers the finer things and drinks more expensive liquor. Eric drinks the cheap stuff and says he suffers snotty comments from Jonas as a result. Should Jonas cut the snobbery, or is Eric being oversensitive? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. There's no place on earth that I'd rather be

than out in the open, where it's all plain to see. It's going to get done. It's up to you and to me. No place that I'd rather be. So come on, head for the courtroom of Judge John. of Judge John. Hodgman, the courtroom of Judge John. Hodgman and Jesse. There's no place that we'd rather be. Swear I'm in, Jesse Thorne.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's abandoned drinking liquor with gold flakes in it in favor of drinking gold with liquor flakes in it?

I do. I do, too. Judge Hodgman? Eric and Jonas, you may be seated. Gold with liquor flakes. Is it molten? I guess so Or is it like a gold nugget

Or is it like a gold nugget With like flakes of liquid inside of it And I just wear it down in my mouth This really feels like something from one of the 80s Superman movies I think we just made a new fake sponsor. Eric and Jonas, for a summary judgment in one of your favors, can you name the piece of culture that I sang beautifully as I entered the courtroom? Eric, you brought the case before this court. You go first.

Unfortunately, I cannot. I don't know if this is helpful or will sway you to my side, but it sounds to me like an old beer jingle. What about you, Jonas? Well, based on the lyrics, I believe that it is actually a Judge John Hodgman original score, probably also done to maybe a chorus-like lyrics.

I did change some of the lyrics, and I may not have gotten the tune exactly right. But as far as you guys are concerned, all guesses are close but wrong. And Eric, you should really be ashamed because it is not a Coors Light television jingle. It is a Bush Beer television. Oh, no. Head for the mountains of Bush Beer. Head for the mountains of Bush Beer. Head for the mountains of bush beer. And then it would go on like that.

Head for the mountains of bush. And this was in the early 1980s after they rebranded bush Bavarian beer and the Anheuser-Busch family of products to simply bush beer in 1979. I think this one was from 1980 when television ads were about three hours long. and the Anheuser-Busch family of products to simply Bush beer in 1979. I think this one was from 1980 when television ads were about three hours long. Although I remember that song, and I wasn't born until 1981. So it has to have run for a good five or ten years. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. So someone who enjoys Bush beer should really – Know your history, guy. Someone who enjoys bush beer and the proud legacy of this storied brand of craft American lager should know. Eric, what do you drink? Well, I mean currently I'm drinking a Bud Light, but Bush Beer is... You're drinking on my podcast? Yes. All right. And just for the record, you're under fake oath. Are you secretly an employee

of Anheuser-Busch? No way. All right. Is this all a scheme to talk about cruddy beer? No, not that I have orchestrated. And get some money off of it? Because this is a family podcast. And let me just say, for the record, we're going to discuss responsible drinking of alcohol. If you're driving your car right now and you have kids in the car and you're drinking, put down your drink and then, and then remind your children that a drinking is only for people who are over 21 and to be enjoyed in moderation.

And also you can't have an open container of beer in the car. Daddy just made a mistake, and he's going to pour it out in a second. But you, Eric, you enjoy alcohol responsibly. You are over 21. Is that correct? Yes. And you drink garbage for reasons, admirable ones. You learned you drank garbage when you didn't have money, and now you have money.

Tell me that story. Well, I think the first note here is I don't – the period of time that I didn't have money, it wasn't at all – I wasn't going through any kind of hard time, and it wasn't a response to a hard hand that I had been dealt. I graduated college and didn't know what I wanted to do. And so I just kind of jimmed around for a while and lived. I was a ministry. Jimmed around? Just kind of hung out, jimmed around, J-I-M. J-I-M?

Jim. Just kind of knocked around. I've never heard. I thought you were saying jinned around, that you would just wander around your college town drinking gin after you graduated because you didn't know what to do, which was the story of my life. is in Nancy, meaning to go on 106 and Park's Freestyle Fridays, become the first ever Asian American champion, then get signed to Rough Riders records and frankly never amount to much of anything. Or and then I thought you were saying deginned around, D-J-I-N-N, which is not merely a great scrabble word, but is also the description of what we commonly know in Western culture

as a genie, which is to say in the cultures of the Middle East, a spirit, a visiting spirit. But you're saying jimmed around like you act like your friend Jim. What? No, I mean, it's just an expression like. Where are you? Kurt, I'm in my living room in Kansas City. In Kansas City, Missouri? uh no i'm on the kansas side of the border kansas city kansas that's how you actually pronounce kansas you

know that's how the locals you don't say missouri you say missouri that is true and kansas kansas kansas is pronounced kansas kansas i've've just Googled Jim around and I can confirm that it's not anything. Where did you grow up, Eric? No, right? I'm talking to Eric now? Yeah, yeah, you're talking to Eric. In Wichita, Kansas.

In Wichita, Kansas. And you said Jim around and that just means do nothing? It's just kind of a general term, I guess. I don't know, like... like, you know, sir, I'll have you know that it's a very specific term in the sense that I literally just Googled it and found no one else using it. Yeah. I mean, you know, this court loves regionalisms.

It's just, I guess, I guess I thought it was a regionalism. Where did you get this up from? So I guess I thought it was a regionalism. Where did you get this up from? I don't know. I mean, probably from on a farm or at a truck stop or while I was swapping a transmission in a car or something. Are these things that you did growing up or things that you imagine someone saying Jim around would have done? I guess a little of both. Did you grow up on a farm? No, but my family has agricultural roots.

And when we would, my family originated in West Texas. And whenever we're in West Texas with my grandpa, he likes to drive through the country and check out the cotton. Yeah, it's just, he's cotton ginning around. That's what he's doing. Exactly, yes. You misunderstood.

Did you get this from your Texas grandpa? It is entirely possible. But you don't remember. You've always said it your whole life. Yeah, I think so. I'm sorry about this. You can leave. I'm just going to talk to Eric about this.

It may have been inscribed on the bottom of a bush beer can somewhere. We could have picked it up there. Is that Jonas talking now? Yes. Alright, Jonas. Are you also from Wichita, Kansas? Yes. I was born there. You are. Alright. How long have you known Eric? As long as he's been married to my sister. So how long is that, Eric? Three or four years?

Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. Three and a half years. Okay. But you're from Wichita. Have you ever heard? I have not. Do you know what he was talking about when he said,

I just gymed around after college? I do not. You've never heard he was talking about when he said I just jimmed around after college? I do not. You've never heard that before either, right? No. This is really weird. There are any Judge John Hodgman listeners who are not liars who can write in and verify that they have heard this term before. I'd love to get to the bottom of it. But meanwhile, we have this dispute between

Jonas and Eric. Eric, first of all, you are both over 21. Is that correct? Eric, how old are you? 29. May I see some ID? Yes. Uh-huh. I think you lost a little weight. Jonas, may I see some ID? Sure. Oh, I see you shaved a little weight. Jonas, may I see some ID? Sure. Oh, I see you shaved one of your eyebrows. How old are you?

I am 31. 31, okay. All right, so Eric, you spent your post-college years gymming around, developing a taste. In your affidavit, you said bush beer, but you're having a Bud Light now. Yes. But for the less expensive stuff. And now you are 29.

Yes. You are friends with your brother-in-law, Jonas. Uh-huh. And you are in conflict. Describe the conflict. And you are in conflict. Describe the conflict. I think just in as few words as I can, it's whenever we are. Well, I shouldn't say whenever because it's not. One way you can cut out words is to not say in as few words as I can.

Just say it. I guess that's true. You know what? I need you to say it like drunk Hulk now. Do you know what I'm talking about? I do know what you're talking about. All right. Get right to it if you do. Just say, me mad at Jonas cuz.

Me mad at Jonas cuz. He make comment at my perceived cheap garbage beer, and he think he better for drinking expensive stuff. That was sort of a gray Hulk type response. Perceived really took me out of the character. Right, because that's a defensiveness that drunk Hulk wouldn't feel. Me mad at Jonas because he make fun of Hulk for drink Hulk favorite beer, garbage beer. Jonas think he's so great. That true, Jonas, or what?

That's my question to you. You can answer as a regular. Okay. That is entirely incorrect. So I will be the first to admit that I do have – Sounds like a snob, doesn't he, Jesse? Sounds like a snob. You know how I'll know for sure?

If he uses the word perceived. Sounds like this is a real – you know, in the town versus gown, he's a gown. He's a gown. Snob Hulk. I do enjoy nice drinks and nice beer. But I do not look down on people that do not have the same tastes as I do. Sounds like he goes to the camp across the lake. You know what I mean?

Snob Hulk is, by the way, he goes to the camp across the lake. You know what I mean? Snobhulk is, by the way, is going to be our new beloved character. He's going to say me only like Alexander Payne movies. Me no even own television. No disrespect to the people who love Budweiser products. What is the

local Kansas City, Missouri or Kansas beer that you can recommend, Jonas, to the listeners of the Judge John Hodgman podcast? I would have to say that would be Boulevard Brewing Company. Boulevard Brewing Company. Yes. Now I will attempt to bully them into sponsoring me. You're welcome. My blackmail system of sponsorship seeking continues. It's been so successful thus far, John.

Look, unless you give us some money, I'm just going to keep talking about your product. Pains me. You know what, guys? Everyone who's been posting pictures of Utz products to me on Twitter, you can stop that because it just hurts me. I love Utz and I understand. We're just not part of their program right now. And I get it. So you say that you don't judge and snobbly comment on Eric's habit of drinking garbage beer even when he's doing podcasts. Correct.

But, Eric, you say that Jonas lie. True. Give me a specific example, that being the soul of narrative, of Jonas looking down his nose. Jonas, even his name is Snobby Jesse. It's true. Give me an example of Jonas looking down his nose at you. Put me in a world. Paint me a mind picture.

Okay. Okay. Well, probably the best example that I have is we were over at his house. I don't really remember when it was. I do know that it was a summer month in the last couple of years. We were over at his house for dinner and I was helping the up or something, and I found this box of – I think it was like Old Milwaukee beer or something like that. And I commented – I mean I was caught off guard because that's not the kind of beer Jonas drinks. And I asked him. You're like, hooray! Exactly. A treasure! And I asked him. I just what like what is this from and he said oh i was

at the lake with some friends this weekend and those are lake beers and then in the uh in the my in my recollection he turned to me slowly and just said you know your your type of beers. And I was just like, oh. And so it's like – and that's probably the best comment I can remember. All right. Jonas, what is the difference between lake beer and party beer? Or what – I mean break it down for me, Linnaeus. Give me your hierarchy of beers. break it down for me, Linnaeus.

Give me your hierarchy of beers. So we have some friends that have a lake house, and we had gone out there a couple times. This was probably at the beginning when we had started going out there. And so I don't spend a lot of time at lakes. And so the first time we went, I brought a six-pack of probably Boulevard or something like that. And they were in glass bottles. Sure.

You're not supposed to take glass bottles to a lake, which I was not aware of. And so – How come? I think it's because if they break or something, it can be dangerous, obviously, having glass. How did this rule get passed on to you? You showed up with your six-pack. Well, there was probably four or five other different groups of people at this house at that time, and I was the only one that had glass bottles. And so you got snobbed out by them?

Well, I didn't get snobbed out. They were like, Jonas, don't you know? Don't bring glass bottles to the lake. Oh, how come? But you don't even know the answer. You were too afraid to ask. That's how you know you got snobbed. That's true.

Because you were like, oh, I made a mistake. I'm not even going to ask them why. I'll just get old Milwaukee next time, guys. Sorry. My new character. What's the name of that character? John Hodgman with glottal problems? All right, Jonah.

So it is I, the lady of the lake. All your lake friends. Who are these people? Business associates? These are mostly neighborhood friends, actually. Neighborhood friends? Yes. But they all knew the ways of the lake. They made fun of you. Yes, because

most of them had grown up on the lake and then they had moved into the big city and then back to the lake for summer. And they're like, get your nerd beer out of here and get some old Milwaukee. And so you did. Essentially, yes. And what do you do for a living there in Kansas City? I am a consultant for a big four accounting firm.

Whoa, one of the big four. Yes. Yeah. I do some consulting in the accounting field as for number five. Oh, just under the wire. Every year, year after year. Yeah. And okay.

And so you got this old Milwaukee and you brought it home. Is that correct? Well, yes. What in your mind made old Milwaukee and you brought it home. Is that correct? Well, yes. What in your mind made old Milwaukee Lake beer? It's in a can, so it's Lake appropriate. We know that. Well, so I don't want to get in trouble with my wife, but that's where the story may end up going. You know what?

Is your wife in the house? She is not in the house i think she's ever going to listen to this podcast she probably will oh well then you might get in trouble but you got to say what you just said okay so i i did not have a chance to go buy beer and so because if i had i would not have bought old milwaukee obviously but so when she went to the store, I just told her, I said, get something that's in cans, not in bottles per our previous discussion. You really hate Old Milwaukee.

I don't know what actually happened. It was like a 24 pack and I think I had half of one and I don't know where the other 23 and a half years are. Well, it's because Eric stole them from your house yes that was most likely the most likely scenario why do you like expensive beers and bottles over old milwaukee what's your thesis what's your philosophy it well so it has to do with – so in my college years, I actually lived –

Where did you go to college? I went to a school in the Netherlands. So I lived in Europe for about four and a half years. Oh, my God. What? Are you like a villain from an 80s high school comedy? Is that the kind of snob you are? I didn't really go to college.

I went to a skiing academy in Bichon. Why? And in the Netherlands, you learned to enjoy European-style beers. Correct. The Netherlands shares a border with Belgium, which makes some of the best beer in the world. If you like that kind of beer. Yes. If you like Trappist ales. I said if you like Trappist ales made by monks in monasteries over the course of centuries.

Right. And do you like these beers because there's something about them that you enjoy or do you like them because you know that they're famous beers? I like them because that's – You know what the correct answer is. So say the correct answer and then explain what you mean. So the correct answer is I know that they're famous beers. No, that's not the correct answer and then explain what you mean. So the correct answer is I know that they're famous beers. No, that's not the correct answer at all.

Yeah, you really misread the room on that one. Wow. I understand the correct answer. The correct answer is they're expensive. They're important and they're expensive and they're famous. I'm supposed to say I love them not because they're famous but because I really love the taste of these beers when I know the work that's gone into it compared to a factory product of the kind my dumb brother-in-law, who never even went to Ski Academy, loves. I think Ski Academy is an unconscious homage to Paul F. Tompkins and his great show on the Fusion Network, Know You Shut Up, because I think he and Scott Aukerman did, I mean, I know they did a sketch, but I think it was called Ski

High School or something. It was really funny. And any of you guys who are out there listening, you know and love Paul F. Tompkins. You may not have yet seen his show, Know You Shut Up on Fusion or its YouTube channel, but you should check it out because this is Paul F. Tompkins' show. I know there are puppets on it, and that might be scary because puppets are scary, but this is the Paul F. Tompkins show by any measure, and it is great. And you should please go check it out. And I apologize for subconsciously stealing his idea of Ski Academy. That's just no majin because I adore him and there you go.

So okay, I just made your case for you but Jonas, do you understand the difference that I'm just trying to... I was trying to play the Ski Academy villain but... You know you don't play a role in this show, right? Only snobs do that.

Eric? Yes, sir. When you were ginning around drinking all this garbage, you ever drink any of that old Milwaukee? From time to time, yeah. And you ever have Schaefer? I don't think I've ever had Schaefer. I don't think I've ever had Schaefer.

Schaefer is my favorite of those canned sort of bottom shelf beers because it used to have the motto and maybe still does. Schaefer is the one when you're having more than one. Can I say that I have like an unexpectedly deep brand loyalty to Miller High Life despite not being a drinker and never having been a drinker in my entire life based exclusively on the High Life Man commercials, which ran during my, I guess, teenage years, which I later found out, much to my delight, were directed by Errol Morris. But, like, I feel so strongly about, there's no greater evidence of the power of marketing than that I, a person who has literally never drunk beer in his life,

I have strong brand loyalties in the world of beer. And probably to a lot of different brands, but in particular, alcohol, besides having the benefit of being alcoholic, is very adaptable to marketing because every time you turn 21 and begin to drink responsibly, you are choosing a kind of adulthood for yourself. And the thing that you choose to drink is a story that you're telling to the world.

And those brands are trying to tell you what's, give you a bunch of choices of different stories. Well, I learned this very vividly at One Max Fun Con, when we had gone to a popular big box discount retailer, a membership club, and purchased some cases of beer. Right. And one of the cases of beer that we bought was Stella Artois. Sure. Which is marketed here in the United States as a sophisticated European beer to drink at indie rock concerts.

Sure. It's got that fancy name. And our British comedians saw the Stella Artois and started laughing uproariously because in the United Kingdom – We know that no British person laughs uproariously. Okay. They started laughing wryly. They chuckled into their collar and then apologized. Because in the United Kingdom, if you're drinking Stella Artois, you might as well be drinking Schlitz.

Right. It's garbage beer over there. Yeah. But do you know what's inside that can of Stella Artois, you might as well be drinking Schlitz. Right. It's garbage beer over there. Yeah. But do you know what's inside that can of Stella Artois? Beer. Yeah, I think a pretty good beer. Whether it's garbage in the UK

or fancy pants here. I like that. I don't like beer because I don't like to eat a loaf of bread all at once. But on the occasion that I do have a beer, a Stella will be something I choose. You ever drink Stella, Eric? I do enjoy Stella. I think it's a good beer.

And I don't know, like, this was bound to come out, I suppose. But, like, I'm not against nicer alcohol. Like, I'm not against buying a stellar like when i go out on a date with my wife i will often buy the uh aforementioned boulevard beer or i'll buy like a stellar but like if i'm going to the liquor store like like i'm today was my last day of work for the week so i have a four-day weekend and so when I go to, is that every week? What do you know? Uh, all right. So your plan for your four day weekend or whatever is what? No, it's just like, like to me, like when I go, I mean, I'm going,

I'm going to go to the liquor store and buy something to drink some beer to drink. And to me it's like, if I've got, you know, and my wife and I, we have a budget and we stick to that budget. And in that budget is money that I can spend on whatever I want. And so that money, I mean, if I'm being honest, it's 100, that's, it's, I spend it all in alcohol every month anyway. And so it's like if I'm going to go to the liquor store and I've decided to spend $15, I would rather spend $15 and get five 40-ounce bottles or a 24-pack of something rather than spending $15 and getting like eight beers.

Drunk Hulk choose quantity over quality. Yes. I understand. Yeah, and then the other part of it is it's like – I mean I legitimately think that Bush beer is a good beer. And I think – like I had an Italian professor in college who was German and he would just – he would go on these tangents about how terrible American beer was and I was just like I'm not going to sit here

and argue with you about the merits of bush beer as opposed to some Belgian monk brewed beer but it's just like for my money, it's going to do the same thing. And I'm going to have, you know,

I sit here and argue the merits of Bush beer versus a Trappist Dale, but it gets you effed up and I get a lot more of it for 15 bucks. Yeah. And Riva Darchi, Italian professor. Yeah. And I mean, it's like, it's, I don't, you know, I don't, boy, you know, I've been calling Jonas a snob throughout this entire podcast and I am a – Judge John Hodgman is a person of the people. Sure. You're the Vox Populi. I'm a populist and I'm certainly an advocate of people liking what they like.

But I think you may have just lost this whole case, Eric. You may have just dug yourself a hole and you're going to crawl into it and drink for four days, which sounds like it's actually your perfect weekend. When you said, we have a budget and I get a certain amount from my wife every week and I spend it all on alcohol, that was the saddest Raymond Carver short story that I've heard since Raymond Carver died. I'm going to ask you seriously. Do you have a problem with alcohol?

No. No, I do not. And let me amend that. Our budget is not – I drink, I get drunk, I do a podcast, no problem. Our budget is not my wife telling me how much money I can spend. Our budget is – we have specific goals that we would like to achieve financially and our budget is one of the vehicles we use for that. All right.

But you are employed? Gainfully. You are gainfully employed, right? Because your life has changed. You're no longer just ginning around. Correct. Or whatever. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.: Correct. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And I'm glad to hear that you're being financially responsible and not spending all of your money on fancy pants alcohols like El Snobbo over here.

Jonas, you know your brother-in-law. I'm sure you've had this conversation. You've heard him tell the story of his particular brand of drinker. What's wrong with what he's doing? Jonas Bowlinger, Jr.: There is nothing wrong with it. I think it's admirable to have a budget and stick to it and participate in drinking beer while fitting inside of that budget. He's about to go to the liquor store as soon as this podcast is

like, I have a feeling like as soon as I say this is the sound of a gavel, he's going to get to gav and we're going to hear the door slamming behind him as he gets over to the liquor store to preload for his weekend. What should he buy with his $15? What should he buy with his $15?

It is warm today in Kansas City, which is nice. So, I mean, Eric, you could just go with a good standby Boulevard wheat. And Eric, what's the problem with that? I don't really know where to begin. Okay. First of all, let me say I completely understand why you are speechless and incensed. No, no, opposite of that. I don't understand how you could be so incensed by a fairly reasonable down-the-middle recommendation like that.

What's the problem with Jonas? Why is he getting under your skin? Well, it has to do more with Boulevard. And I don't think Boulevard's best beer is their wheat beer. But for whatever reason, they sell like 75% of their total beer sales are Boulevard wheat. And it's not a bad beer. I don't drink it and want to vomit. I just don't think it's their best beer.

Okay. So you're not saying that Jonas is trying to snob you out. You're saying that Jonas has terrible middle-of-the-road taste, that he thinks is good taste. I want to say yes to both things you just said. Okay. So I think he's trying to snob me out and I think he has terrible middle of the road taste. Alright.

Jonas, do you like bush beer? I think I can honestly say I have never had bush beer. How come? I just have never had the desire to drink it. Eric, if you win the case, what do you want me to...

Well, actually, hang on. Jonas, if you... If I find in your favor, it's not really clear to me what you want to have happen in this situation. Because Eric is accusing you of being a snob.

I could get him to recant that accusation. I could order him to try something that you recommend. I could – you could ask me to order him to change the way he lives his life. I'm going to tell you that I probably can't do that. But what do you want to get out of this if you win? Well, so I think maybe the – I take offense to the label. I think the fact that I don't drink bush beer and like Belgian beers doesn't make me a snob. It just means I have different tastes.

Do you drink Anything besides beer? Uh, yes. Do you drink a whiskey? Yes. What do you, what whiskey do you drink? Um, I, I drink a lot of stuff. So I have, I think I have a couple of bottles. I like, uh, Templeton. I like, um, yes,ye. Yes. That's a good one. Um, it's, it's just a good, a good smooth whiskey, I think. All right. What else? Um, I like, uh, I like, well, I think I have a bottle of makers, um, and then a couple other like smaller ones in my liquor cabinet right now. Can you remember the names or are they escaping you at the moment?

I think one of them is called Breckenridge, which is out in Colorado. So why do you have the Makers? Makers Mark Bourbon. That's for mixing, mixing drinks. So if I'm drinking drinking something straight then i'll drink a nice bottle of whiskey but if i'm mixing it and making a uh horse feather or making something a mixed drink that i'll i'll use the makers so you are into mixology uh i i You are into mixology? I can make like two or three drinks and that's about it. And the horse feather is one of them?

Yes. And your big four repertoire? What are the other ones? I can make a horse feather and I can make a Moscow mule. And then there's obviously the, I can, I can make, um, a good margarita for my wife. What kind of vodka do you use in the Moscow mule? Um, I use actually, yes. Tito's.

I know. All right. I got it. I'm not, I can't be a snobby about vodka because vodka doesn't have as much taste so it's all the same to me as long as it doesn't reach out of the bottle and bite me it's fine Eric if you were to win this case what would you have me order of Jonas?

I want $15 of Bush beer. I think I've heard everything I need to hear. I'm going to go into my drinking shack and make myself a horse feather as I mull this over.

I'll have my decision when I come back. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jonas, how are you feeling about this? This whole thing below you? I feel like I put forward a decent case, and I don't feel like Eric has much to stand on, especially given the fact that I think he already has taken 23 cans of old Milwaukee. Eric, did you steal Jonas' terrible beer? No! I don't know whether—I'm being blindsided by this. Specious accusations?

Yeah. I really did not steal any of it. Is it possible that it was just day three of a four-day weekend and you don't remember stealing it? Sure. All right. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a second. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. Maximumfun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to Maximumfun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to Maximumfun.org slash join.

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great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware dot com. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. What's in a horse feather anyway, Jonas? It is, it's mostly like, now I have to look it up cause I don't even remember. I don't have names for my. Let me ask you, is it just ever clear grain alcohol? It is.

Mint sprig? It is not. Oh, then I made it wrong. Uh, a thing to say that has bearing on this case may seem, uh, a little general, but I need to say it. You know, this stuff is just gets you drunk, right? That's what alcohol does. It gets you drunk.

There's a long history of craftspersonship behind beers and whiskeys and wine, of course. And fascinating history, fascinating nuances of flavor. But none of it would have the power that it holds on our imagination if it weren't a legal intoxicant. Or I should say, none of it would have the power that it holds on our imagination if it were not an intoxicant. And none of it would have the power that it holds on the imagination of marketers around the world were it not a legal intoxicant that you could advertise and put a label on and build stories around and build narratives around and build identities around. And I say this because it's a – alcohol is serious stuff. And I have seen a lot – a number that is too large of my friends have their lives near ruined by it, right? And the way that people ruin their lives with alcohol begins with the day that they tell themselves a story, which is, I'm a drinker. And they identify that as being part of their life, being part of their identity. And the stories you tell yourself in the world by the brands that you choose and the contexts in which you enjoy alcohol are important and worth discussing, right?

There are some beers you have at a fancy dinner party. There are some beers you have at the lake. The container is part of it, but what's within matters too. But what's within matters too. And what I would say, Jonas, is not that you are a snob. But that you're not snobby enough. No, I'll take it back. You're a snob. Because one of the precepts of this whole show is that people like what they like. And I think it's madness for Eric to suggest that bush beer is as good as a Trappist ale.

But he's not. He's simply saying it's cheaper and I like it, and I don't want to be ashamed about it. And nor should he be. You, Jonas, have some very fine taste, and you consider yourself an enthusiast of the finer things. But you, in my estimation, are buying brands more than you're buying what's inside right now. You're buying stories.

You like Trappist Ale. You appreciate Trappist Ale because you know it is the most famous. You like, what's the rye you have? Templeton. Templeton rye? Trappist Dale because you know it is the most famous. You like, uh, what's the rye you have? Templeton. Templeton rye? Uh, because it's a good rye.

And it is. You know that it's a good rye because it costs more money than Old Overholt. But you know what? Old Overholt's also a good rye. Incredible bargain, given the quality of that whiskey.

Unfortunately, I mean, you are into mixology, which, no matter what they say, is still great. And you can make a margarita for your wife, which is a great thing to have in your repertoire. But the other drinks you're making are obscurities. The Moscow Mule was a drink invented specifically for marketing.

I mean, not that, you know, it couldn't be a more perfect choice for you to have in your repertoire as you are sorting, trying to sort out what you like and the taste that you have versus the stories you are telling to yourself and the world via the brands that you are buying. Right? Because Moscow Mule was invented by, I want to say Smirnoff. I can't remember the precise vodka brand. I believe you are correct. As a way to market vodka during the Cold War to an American market. The Moscow Mule is vodka and ginger beer. And is there another ingredient? A piece of lime? And Jonas, it's served in a special kind of container, correct?

Yes. What kind of container? Copper mug. And do you know why? I think I actually just heard this story, but I believe there was some copper salesman or something in New York that was trying to get rid of these mugs. And so they came up with this drink to sell the vodka in the copper mug. I hadn't heard that story, but it makes sense to me because it's served in a copper mug for no reason. It's a story. That old drink is a story to an advertising for vodka. You know what I mean? And I encourage you to be selective, enthusiastic, curious, and even snobby when warranted, right?

when warranted, right? But be so, embody those qualities in the actual thing you're drinking, right? Rather than all the stuff that surrounds it. The minute you said Tito's Vodka, I was like, oh, I know this guy's story. Sorry. I mean, Tito's Vodka is a good vodka. And I buy it. Do you know what I mean? And I don't drink vodka. But vodka is the, you know, you know as well as anyone vodka, at least, you know, modern American marketed vodka is the perfect example of, you know, the difference between marketing and substance. Because the substance is by definition in America tasteless, flavorless, and odorless. It is very difficult to distinguish the difference between the highest end versus the mediumest end versus the lowest, the lowest end vodka you usually taste.

But, you know, a really expensive vodka versus a middle ground vodka, it's all the label. It's all the story, whether it's from this place or that place or whatever. Luckily, whiskey and beer and certainly wine, which I won't even touch because I don't know enough about it. There are distinct differences in those things in brand over brand over brand in terms of aging, in terms of the quantity of grain, one kind of grain versus another, the quantity of hops, obviously, and beer, all those things. There are real distinctions. And I encourage you, Jonas, to really dig into them. You may be doing this and you just didn't express yourself the right way, in which case I apologize. But you should unapologetically yourself dig in, drink responsibly, and develop

your taste and come to appreciate the things that you like, no matter where they come from, no matter what kind of label they have on them, no matter what kind of mug they're served in. And when you do that, you may discover that a bush beer on a hot Kansas City spring afternoon after moving a couch might just be contextually the most delicious thing you ever had. But you wouldn't know because you've never even tried one. And so I, as someone who likes this stuff as much as I think you do, have to say, even though I'm concerned about Eric openly saying and embodying a completely different drinking culture that I, that I worry puts them on the path to danger.

I'm going to buy as much as I can for $15. Eric, you're a grown man. Okay. You're a grown man who has a job. It's true. You shouldn't be saying who has a job. It's true. You shouldn't be saying those words out loud or in your heart. You should spend your money on whatever you like. Just make sure it's something that you like. And if you're telling me, I don't know what it is.

I really like Bush Beer, great. The bonus is you get a lot more of it for $15 than the other. But by the same token that I yell at Jonas for being snob drunk Hulk, you need to get out of your story you're telling yourself where it's just fun to be drunk Hulk. You need to get out of your story. You're telling yourself where it's just fun to be drunk Hulk. You have kids. I do. I have one kid. How old is your kid? A year and a half. Yeah. So he's obviously not able to drink yet, but when the time comes, he's going to be modeling his behavior on yours.

True. And not that I'm suggesting that you're a horse feather away from raging alcoholism. But I appreciate that you like what you like and you should not apologize for it or put some bravado around it. It's like I get a lot of it. I get it because it's cheap and I get to drink more. You know what I mean? Be proud of what you like. If you like bush beer, you like Bud Light, those are in many ways, they're certainly perfectly acceptable things to drink.

And also those brands, much like the Miller High Life guy, those have stories and people behind them as well that are just as interesting as a bunch of monks in Belgium, particularly given the fact that you're living in Kansas City, Kansas. You are in the heart of Budweiser country or not exactly. Four hours away from it. Yeah, four hours away. You're in a commuting suburb of Budweiser country.

So now that I've admonished you both and told you how you were wrong and where you were right, it comes down to this. Is Jonas being a snob? Yes. I would prefer a snob? Yes. I would prefer Jonas be an enthusiast. Does Eric's request for justice, a $15 amount of bush, is it called for? Yes. That is the justice that shall be served. But you guys are going to get together and drink a bush beer together. And you're going

to think about the beer that you're drinking. And you might not agree as to its quality, but you're going to decide for yourself whether you're ever going to drink another one of these things again. And then you're going to go your own separate ways and not talk about this. Because it's the story you tell yourself that is the important one. Not the story you write for other people. And not the story that's written for you by brands.

So I do find in favor of Eric, Jonas, go back to ski school. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Eric, how do you feel? It's a mixed bag.

No, it's not. I mean, I feel good. I found in your favor, you're getting free beer. You have to give one to your brother-in-law. If it's a mixed bag because I said you're a drunk, then I think you need to look at your life. Well, no, I mean, that's what I mean. It's just like I don't want to, like from the budgetary aspect of this, it's like those $15 of Bush beer, I'm going to be able to enjoy the,

enjoy those beers responsibly more times than I would be able to $15 of a more expensive beer. Not I can get drunk more or I can get drunker one time. So yeah, like, yeah, I mean, I'm glad I'm enjoying. And it's funny that you said boom in a couch on a spring day,

cause I'm going to help Jonas move a piano on Friday. Oh! So it's like just, it's going to be the perfect situation. The nice thing about getting... You're going to help old Van Cliburn move his Steinway? Exactly. The nice thing about getting $15 worth of Bush is it gives you a few to drink now

and a few to keep in the tank of your toilet. Jonas, how do you feel? Uh, I, I, I thought, um,

I thought I would actually win, win the case. So that was usually do. Um, but, but I think it's a mixed bag for me too in that – Definitely. I think the commentary on enthusiasts in that I'm not a buyer of brand stories.

I do like to do my own research. Okay, we get it. You're both whiners. I find against both of you for whining. Thank you very much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Yeah, stop jimming around, you guys. Thanks for doing the show. Thanksgman podcast. Yeah, stop jimming around, you guys. Thanks for doing the show. Thanks for having us.

I had a good time despite my... Yeah, I could hear you were having a good time. Don't worry about it. I came across. Drink responsibly. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday

on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p p-p-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you Another thrilling court case in the books, Judge Hodgman. Glug, glug, glug. Looks like your four-day weekend just started. Another well-earned horse feather.

I'm going to look that up. It's, you know, I looked it up. It's ginger ale and whiskey. Oh, gingy whiskey. A gingy whiskey. Yeah, that's what we call it on this side of the Mississippi. Speaking of four-day weekends. Yes, sir.

I'm going to be in Santa Cruz, California, performing Jordan Jesse Go Soon. Well, isn't that a delight? On a Friday evening. It's the perfect time to kick off your four-day weekend, presuming that you're also going to do something cool on Monday. All right. Fair enough. April 24th at the Coombo Jazz Center in Santa Cruz, California. Jordan and I will be there.

That's K-U-U-M-B-W-A. It's one of the nation's finest jazz centers. Mm-hmm. At least one of the nation's finest jazz centers. At least one of the nation's finest jazz centers with two consecutive U's in the name. That sounds great. John Vanderslice will be there. Love him.

Folks might remember from our recent live show from San Francisco Sketch Fest. That's right. It is a benefit for KZSC Radio in Santa Cruz, the college radio station from whence Jordan Jesse Goh and the Sound of Young America later to become Bullseye sprang.

Back to your roots. We're going. This is the first time we have ever done. This is the first Santa Cruz show that Jordan and I have done since we were an improv, a short form improv comedy group called Humor Force Five playing the Porter Dining Hall Horse Feather! At UC Santa Cruz. So yeah, go to MaximumFun.org and click through for the ticket link

or search for it on Brown Paper Tickets. I kind of feel like if you live in Silicon Valley or the Monterey Bay Area and you don't come, like, what are you doing with your life? What are you doing? What kind of choices are you making? What are you doing? Thanks this week to Craig Eliason for suggesting the name.

If you want to suggest a name for a future episode. Wait, I have something I want to plug. Okay, drunk Hodgman. I'm not drunk. Oh, my gosh. You're a brilliant actor. I'm just an incredible actor. I actually don't have anything to plug.

I just do want to say thank you to everyone who donated during the Max Fund Drive. I do want to say thank you to everyone who donated during the MaxFunDrive and in particular all those people who gave at the leadership level and the Golden Eagle level and the Platinum Angel level that I got to thank on Instagram. I'm still – by the time this airs, I think I will have worked through all of the names, but I still have a lot to do and I love that I have a lot to do. It really meant a lot to me personally and obviously to Jesse and everyone at MaxFun that you guys chipped in with your support. And so I've got nothing to plug except you guys and also the Know You Shut Up program by Paul F. Tompkins which is airing on

Fusion. Look, we get it. You know what they call Fusion in the entertainment industry? What's that? Do you know if you're an agent? Is that when you combine Paul F. Tompkins and puppets? No. Fusion is his network.

And when you're selling shows to fusion, you know what professional industry agents call it? Extended cable? Confusion. Oh, confusion. Cause they don't know what's, what it is.

Yeah. They haven't figured that out yet. It's a new network. It's part of, I think it's part of Univision, right? Anyway, but some of this program is marketed to American-born people of Latino ancestry, young people. Some of it's comedy. Chris Gethard's got a show coming out on it.

And then you have this show, Know You Shut Up, which is kind of like a daily show, but imagine if all the correspondents were funny Jim Henson puppets, because that's what they are. But you hear, it took me a long time to explain what that is. A lot of people get confused. They don't watch it because they don't know where this thing is. They don't know how to see it. But I'm telling you, you like Paul F. Tompkins? Of course you do. You want to see the thing that he is devoting his time and energy to right now? Yes. It's called Know You Shut Up.

It's on the Fusion Network. They just did a deal with Dish. If you get it on Dish, watch it. But if you don't have any of that stuff, go to their YouTube channel and subscribe to the Know You Shut Up YouTube channel. I would consider it a personal favor if you did because I really like this piece of work that my friend Paul F. Tompkins is doing. That's all. If you want to suggest a name for an upcoming Judge John Hodgman case,

go to Facebook and search for Judge John Hodgman. Click like or follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. H-O-D-G-M-A-N. J-E-S-S-E-T-H-O-R-N. Our producer is Julia Smith. Mark McConville edits the program. Thanks, guys. We will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

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