Judge John Hodgman - Sic Semper Dramatis

Episode Date: March 12, 2014

Will wants his brother Andrew to stop making scenes and acting like a reality TV star in public. NOTE: Some occasional bad language in this episode.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Monty Belmonte from 93.9 The River, WRSI in Northampton, Massachusetts. This week, sick semper dramatis. Will brings the case against his brother, Andrew. He claims Andrew has a flair for the dramatic and enjoys making scenes in public. He says Andrew should tone it down for the sake of those around him. Andrew says his brother just hasn't learned the fun of letting go. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise with a twirl and a twist, sashay and curtsy as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

I don't have a lot I want to say, but I'll start by saying I apologize for my behavior at the charity event. I'm the kind of judge that likes to spill the facts. Everything else is just gossip and BS. Here are the facts. I never received a call, a text, or an email from bailiff Jesse Thorne. What I did learn the night before the charity event is that Jesse had used a PR firm to send e-vites to everyone, which is why I didn't see it. Fact. You heard me right. A third party. Jesse Thorne wanted you to believe that he sent me an

email and he did not. Fact. If he really had pure good intentions, he should have picked up the phone and called me and said, hey, let's put our differences aside for a night of charity. phone and called me and said, hey, let's put our differences aside for a night of charity. Now, I'm a very rational person, Monty. I've been a major supporter to the Shutting Our Pieholes Foundation for years. I've raised thousands of dollars for them. Fact. All this charity BS is coming from a person that showed up at my charity event last year in a thong and butt pads. Jesse Thorne really has no credibility when it comes to charity. He had beef with Cynthia over the whole coochie crack thing, then moved on to Portia, then to Phaedra over the booty video, and then to Apollo, and now me. I see straight through him. Jesse Thorne

is not original. What he's doing has already been done. I've always stood alone in a war, Monty. I might bend, but I won't break, and if I stumble, I won't fall. I see what he's doing, and now so do you. Swear them in. Will and Andrew, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you Ashton Kutcher or Sacha Baron Cohen or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling Even though he has one of those flowers on his lapel That shoots water out at you every time you shake his hand with a buzzer I do

Judge John Hodgman you may proceed Well and Andrew you may be seated First of all I want you to know That I am in western Massachusetts With guest bailiff Monty Belmonte Morning DJ here at WRSI The River, where we record these things when I'm in western Massachusetts, my part-time hometown, which is the entire two counties, Franklin County and Hampshire County. It's one giant town. Yeah.

And what that means is I'm supposed to be on vacation, so I am not having it today. Don't get me started. I will get dramatic on you if you push me too far. So with that said, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Will? Oh, I have no idea. No. No.

Andrew? No, I have no clue on that one. All right. Well, here's the thing. Will, your brother, is accusing you of acting in public like NeNe Leakes from own blog in which she apologized for being a jerk at Kenya's fundraiser for saving our daughters. I watched that, and she was a jerk. She had a lot to apologize for. But you know what? Fact.

She likes to spill the facts. So anyway, it turned out to be something of a non-apology apology. So anyway, it turned out to be something of a non-apology apology. Will, you make a serious accusation against your brother of acting like NeNe Leakes in public. Tell me exactly what you mean. Well, he's just overdramatic, and sometimes he quotes her a little too much. NeNe Leakes specifically? Yes. Occasionally, he just

has one quote of hers he'll do occasionally. Was it the one I just did? No, no, no. His favorite NeNe Leakes quote is, I'm very rich, bitch. I would like to hear Andrew say that. I am very rich, bitch.

All right. I like it. I like it one time, maybe. But if he were my brother, this could become a problem. Nuh-uh, Bailiff Monty. Don't start with me now. Fact. Fact.

I can hear that about one more time before. I will walk out of here. This is supposed to be my vacation. Don't you walk out of here. I am going to carve't have time on my own day for your drama that's it thank you will and andrew for joining the judge john hodgman podcast you can sign up for your own courtroom. You cannot bring that attitude. Fact. Fact.

You have broken the door. I broke the door. I broke the whole radio station now, and I'll do it again. I am very rich, bitch. I am very rich, bitch. See? Fact. Will, did our play acting make you uncomfortable?

It was not very good broadcasting, especially for a family-friendly podcast. It did make me a little uncomfortable. I mean, that's what I deal with when I'm out with Andrew in public. That's how he acts around, you know, when we're out with the family and stuff. Andrew in public. That's how he acts around, you know, when we're out with the family and stuff. And, and does he, Andrew, do you do this on purpose or do you also play, do you, do you specifically create drama in order to amuse yourself? Well, it just comes so naturally to me. I just can't help it. It just flows. It just flows out of my mouth constantly. I just, I just can't stop it.

All right. Now, where are you guys in the world? Andrew, you can answer. I am in Dallas, Texas and Highland Park right now. That's where I am currently. All right. And how old are you? I am 21. All right.

And Will, where are you in the world and how old are you? I am in San Antonio and I am 24. You're the older brother. And do you have any other siblings? Yes. Who is your other sibling? We have a younger sister. And where is she in the world?

She's also in San Antonio. Do you have anything bad you want to say about her behind her back while she's not even here in the room I don't but I'm sure Andrew does what would Andrew say oh lord she just can't keep her mouth shut sometimes really she's in the street worse than I do really she says things about people behind their backs? That's the worst, right? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Is she a rich bitch? Monty, don't even start now. Don't you start.

This is my courtroom. You can't just jump in like that. Fact. Fact. You're in my courtroom. Andrew, I want you to know that the reason I'm hearing this case is that your brother reports to Create Drama, you once ordered him a martini that was all vermouth and as a martini drinker i was so offended and disgusted because that is not a

martini that is a vermouthy and i don't like that at all what makes you think that that's funny or acceptable go ahead and defend yourself and, I just think it's a simple, practical joke. I mean, I thought it was very funny when you took a sip and realized there was no vodka in that martini. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Nuh-uh. Nuh-uh. Nuh-uh. Well, it's supposed to be a gin martini. It depends. Well, right, Andrew. That's what I'm talking about. But, Will, would you normally order a vodka martini? Yes, I normally order a vodka martini.

I can't deal with any of this right now. I cannot deal with any of this now. I got vodka-tini over here, and I got vermouthi over there. You're both crimes against humanity. Crimes against humanity. Will, does the drama that Andrew causes that makes you uncomfortable take the form of practical jokes like the old Vermouthi switch? Or like manufactured situations? Or just his natural charming exuberance?

Oh, I think it's manufactured. I mean, one example, we were out at breakfast one morning. I criticized his breakfast choice. He got very upset and yelled at me, it's people like you who killed Judy Garland. What was his breakfast choice? Oh, it was migas or something like that. What was wrong with his breakfast choice? Oh, it was migas or something like that. What was wrong with his breakfast choice? It's not one of my favorites, so I was just saying, I wouldn't have ordered that for breakfast.

And the place we went, they don't have very good migas anyways. Explain to the listeners what migas is, because not everyone's in Texas right now. I'm not even quite sure what they are. Andrew, do you know what they are? They look too scary to me. Because I'm about to run out of patients pretending that I know what they are, and I'm embarrassed that I don't know. So, Andrew, what is it?

So migas are a breakfast food that has eggs. There's also tortilla chips in them, And there's usually some form of salsa. Generally, I get mine with ranchero sauce, but there are others you can use as well. And that's a typical miga. There's also cheese on the eggs as well. It's quite delicious. Sounds great. I like to have those with refried beans and sausage.

Oh, it is. It's a great way to start the morning. I want to have it right now. Why was your brother insulting you? Why doesn't he like good things? I just think, I don't know why he doesn't like nice things. He just tries to deprive me of them, and it's just not fair. I don't understand his hatred of migas.

They're so delicious. I know you won't shy away from an opportunity to repeat exactly what you said in the exact way you said it. So would you mind telling him that he murdered Judy Garland? I'll play with me. I'm your brother. I'm like, hey, Andrew, I don't think that's a good thing to eat. You know what? You're the type of person who killed Judy Garland.

And you say it out loud like that, real loud? Yes, it does come out that loud. That comes out usually when I'm pretty steamed. Do you tip the table over, too, or is that it? Well, at one point, I actually did feel like I almost slipped up with my legs. I almost felt like I could have tipped over. I almost knocked over a drink. I think I slammed my fist on the table.

I think that's a great. I'd like to say something if I can. No, you can't. I think that's a great line, Andrew. What reality star did you borrow it from or did you make it up? Well, I believe I made it up. I think it just came out one day when I was talking to my sister. She was bashing celebrities, and I just yelled at her,

you know, you're the type of person who killed Judy Garland. I still don't know what it means. What does it mean? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it's just this beautifully, completely non-sequitur thing to say, specifically regarding breakfast food. But go ahead, Andrew. Explain yourself.

So Judy Garland had a very hard life at MGM when she was making all those musicals. And basically they had her on drugs for her to wake up and then go to bed. And they just kind of pushed and pushed and pushed to get so much work out of her. And so when I say you're the type of person who killed Judy Garland, I'm saying you expect so much of someone, you need to stop it, because you'll drive them to a really grave.

I mean, it was called the Dream Factory, but look what that got her in the end. Yeah. Lester Saul. Does your brother push you too hard? Yes, he does. He constantly is pushing me in public. What?

Not physically. Yeah, not physically, he does. He constantly pushes me in public. What? Not physically. Yes, not physically, but verbally. Give me another example of how he pushes you around. Well, when we're in public. Does he give you a lot of drugs and make you sing and dance? No. Somehow I don't think that would be a problem. That actually would probably make him your favorite brother of all time.

But your brother Will reported that you consider your idols to be Mae West and Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development. I love Mae West. And what is it about these one real human and one fictional character that you like? Well, I love Mae West. I just love the way she talks, you know. She has that kind of voice. It's like, yeah. It's like, oh.

And the way she just delivers her dialogue and her wit. She's so funny. And she just has total control. Same thing with Lucille Bluth. I mean, she's got control and gets what she wants. And always with a martini in hand. And what a has total control. Same thing with Lucille Bluth. I mean, she's got control and gets what she wants and always with a martini in hand. And what a glamorous way to live. So what's the problem with the way Andrew wants to live, Will? There's nothing wrong with the way he wants to live. It's the way he presents himself. You can

only hear him say, I was born for the theater so many times before it just gets so old. Hang on. I'm going to test that. Andrew, I want you to say, I was born for the theater and continue to say it until I tell you to stop. Okay. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater.

You were born for the theater. I believe it. Thank you. Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate that comment. Please don't encourage it. I will, excuse me, do it again. Five more times.

Five more times in five different ways. Okay, let's see. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. All was born for the theater. I was born for the theater. All right. Now that was amazing. Will, did that make you uncomfortable?

Very uncomfortable. Why? It's just when you hear it so many times on repeat, it's just obnoxious. Now, especially when it's in public and people turn and look. Now, especially when it's in public and people turn and look. Do you think, like, when he told you that you murdered Judy Garland, how many heads turned in that restaurant? Oh, almost all of them. He said it rather loudly.

Almost every head turned, and they were just like, what is going on? You can tell that I find your brother to be a remarkably charming dude. I find your brother to be a remarkably charming dude. But I want you to get a chance to really make your case because I could see Andrew and I sitting in a public place with him saying I was born for the theater and me yelling again over and over and over again might cause something of a stir, might be disruptive on a podcast called Real Life That Is Not My Own. So tell me a couple of other things that he's done, the kind of behavior that you would like me to prohibit him from doing. Well, for example, we were – it was he, my sister, and I. We were at a Chick-fil-A. He wanted a drink. My sister was at the soda fountain. And he yells, out of the way, you strumpet, and pushes her out of the way. Everyone in the Chick-fil-A turned and stared at us. It was embarrassing. And as we're moving, he just starts singing songs from all these musicals.

And it's just a little bit annoying in public and in private. I allowed you to say Chick-fil-A there, even though I have a pretty strict rule about not mentioning brand names that I often break myself, Moxie. But in this case, I wasn't going to upbraid you because there's no way, there is no way in the world that you two are a secret Chick-fil-A buzz marketing team. Chick-fil-A, of all places, of all places for a man who was born for the theater to go into, why are you going to Chick-fil-A? Don't you understand Chick-fil-A's position on gay rights? Yes, I do. That was before it had fully come to light. I had not realized the links that were later brought out by the media.

So I since have stopped eating at Chick-fil-A. Okay. And I'm making no, it does not matter to me whom you guys want to spend the rest of your life with and what gender they may or may not be. I'm just saying for a lover of Broadway musicals alone. Someone who's concerned with the death of Judy Garland shouldn't be eating in Chick-fil-A. Yeah. I don't, you know what I mean? Yes.

And that's why I don't eat there anymore. I have given up Chick-fil-A. I think it's quite easy to say no to a waffle fries, especially since I can make my own even better. Do you say myself? I would have some of those waffle fries. Will, any other stories you want to bring up? Well, I mean, those are the main ones, just these public outbursts.

And he does quote movies too often as well. What movies? That's another issue. What movies? Dr. Strangelove, Gone with the Wind, A Streetcar Named Desire, all of those. Another incident actually involves a tie. It is something, it's an incident he's very bitter about, has never gotten over.

I can hear him. I can hear him winding up in the background. I'm sure he is. Let me hear about the tie. So I was out with my mom and my sister. We went to Neiman's. We were doing some shopping. She saw a tie that was made by Fabergé. And since, you know, Andrew loves Fabergé.

I'm sorry? You mean the egg company? Yes. They make delicious migas. Uh-uh, Monty. That was the last straw. That was not the last straw. You just got on my last nerve. Migas made with Fabergé eggs. Delicious. Too many callbacks, Monty. That was the last straw. That was not the last straw. You just got on my last nerve. Vegas made with Fabergé eggs. Delicious. Too many callbacks, Monty.

I'm sorry. Go on. Fabergé tie. Andrew sees it. He wasn't there. He only heard about this secondhand. So what happens is we convinced our mom not to get it for him. He was off at boarding school, and he's prone to be messy and to ruin a lot of stuff by spilling ketchup on it. So we said, no, it's probably a good idea not to buy the tie. Well, he heard about it.

And so now whenever we're out and he gets denied anything he wants, he will say, oh, that's just like the time you told mother not to get me the Faberge tie. And that gets old. He'll yell that in public as well. Why did you – wait a minute. Would Andrew really have spilled ketchup all over a Fabergé tie?

Yes. Yes, he would have. Because the picture that I'm getting of this young man is not – this guy is a slob. of this young man is not, this guy's a slob. Well, I mean, he has, when he did wait staff at his boarding school's dining hall one evening, he did spill a tray all over everyone. He's rather clumsy. Oh, okay.

All right, Andrew, what are you going to say about that? Well, first off, they should never have told me about the Fabergé tie incident if they didn't want to have brought up later in the future. Because I had seen that tie a while before my mother decided about getting it for me. And I fell in love. It had little eggs on it and everything. It's like, oh, I really wanted it. And, of course, I was going to get it. And what makes it even matter about it is that they don't carry the Fabergé tie anymore.

And so I'm very mad. And I would not have spilled ketchup. And that incident, that was one of my first times waiting at my boarding school. So I was new to it and I was wearing a jacket. So if I had to wear the tie underneath, I would not have gotten ketchup

on it. So I just... Would you have worn your Fabergé tie to wait on the slobs at your boarding school? Oh, no, never, never. I would have worn it to the required chapel afterwards, though, but never to serve. Does your mom and sister share your discomfort with Andrew's flamboyance and loudness?

I mean, yes. I mean, I would be rather uncomfortable if I was being called a strumpet in a very loud voice. Although sometimes, I don't know. It's just, yeah, I don't think they like it either. Now, was it a strumpet? Did he call your sister a strumpet or was it a stranger, a Chick-fil-A stranger? It was our sister. He yelled at her that she was a strumpet? Did he call your sister a strumpet or was it a stranger, a Chick-fil-A stranger? It was our sister. He yelled at her that she was the strumpet.

By the way, guys, can you tell how low my energy has gotten? I mean, part of that is because I was up till three in the morning picking out dance tunes for my dance party with David Reese next week on the boat. I'm going on a cruise, you guys. But the other thing is, like, after that initial yell out that I had with Monty, I'm exhausted. I can't keep it up. I can't keep up the level of energy that you have, Andrew. Maybe it's because you're 21, but it takes work. Will, I'm going to ask you a very pointed question. And as I say, I don't care who people choose to spend their time and

life with uh but andrew i think even you would acknowledge that um quoting nini leaks and uh may modeling yourself after may west and some of the other things you've you've described have an affect that is traditionally associated with a certain flamboyant stereotype of a gay man. Does that track with you? This is not lost on you, right? No, no, this is definitely not lost on me. Now, when I was younger, it was. I had no idea flamboyancy was, I'd say when I was in eighth, ninth grade. I didn't understand that flamboyancy was attributed to gay men, especially the kind of the emulation that I do know certain celebrities like Mae West and Vivian Leigh. But I do grasp that. Yes, I do understand that now.

It's a common archetype used in media. Yeah. And Will, I'm going to ask you a pointed question now that we've established that. Is your discomfort that your brother is acting too gay? No, it's that he's making scenes. That's the discomfort. I mean, it's just uncomfortable when, you know, you get all this unwanted attention in a restaurant, especially when you're at a fine dining establishment.

And all of a sudden, out of the blue, it's people like you who killed Judy Garland. And everyone's turning and staring and just like, what is going on with those weirdos over there? Wait a minute. You don't get migas at a fine – that's a diner food. He was talking about Chick-fil-A. Oh, sorry. I'm getting the restaurants mixed up. Andrew, do you have-

It's at any restaurant. Do you appreciate, Andrew, that there are contextual situations where yelling in a restaurant might not be appropriate? You know, I think it'd be even more inappropriate if I were to keep my emotions bottled up. I need to express myself so I can be heard. Why should you get to enjoy something that almost literally no one else on earth does?

All we do is keep our emotions bottled up in order to live with each other. Well, I say we all just kind of let them all out. I'd say we all start quoting our favorite pop culture icons. And after all, I was born this way. But you appreciate, you appreciate the, the real housewives, uh, uh, franchise Atlanta, where, where else, uh, New York, North Hampton, the real housewives ofwives of Greenfield, Massachusetts You know, that all of these are constructed realities, right?

Yes, yes These are very big characters Naturally And I have no doubt That NeNe Leakes and Kenya and everyone else Has a certain outsized personality IRL. That's in real life, Monty. Right.

But the shows that you're watching represent a heightened reality that is manufactured by the producers who are egging these people, often quite willingly, on into conflict, into scenes, into yelling moments that if real life were lived at that pitch, we would all murder each other? I don't know if we would all murder each other. I think some of us would get along quite happily. Some of us would get along quite happily. I will say, yes, I understand it's constructed, but in my case, I feel like I'm egged onto those outbursts. So there's partly not all under my control.

There was that time when you found out your mom didn't buy you a tie. Yes, yes, that did. That did infuriate me because I wanted that tie very much so. But can you acknowledge that perhaps it's not always appropriate to create a reality show in the restaurant where you and your family are eating? Maybe. I have no doubt. I don't know. I have no doubt i don't know i have no doubt all right uh will if i were to rule in your in your favor what would you have me order i would have you order him to stop the public outbursts uh it's fine in the home occasionally but the public outbursts. It's fine in the home occasionally, but the public outbursts need to stop. Okay. And Andrew, obviously if I find in your favor, what would you like me to rule? I would like you to rule that

my behavior is, how should I put this? that my behavior is, um, what should I, what should I, how should I put this? Is,

uh, um, oh, let me think. Oh, I'm lost for words right now. But you were born, you were born, I was,

I was born to the theater, but sometimes you drop a line and you just have to keep going on. How would you have me punish your brother for bringing us to this? I, what damages would you say? make him drink another vermouthini. It called a vermouth oh god vermouthy sorry vermouthy i just made that up uh all right i like that term monty i need you to i i think i have everything i need to make my decision monty i need you to say one thing. Just say

one thing. If you say one thing, I'm going to storm out of here into my chambers to make my decision. So don't you even. Don't you even say one thing. Just one thing. That's all, Buckner! Don't you say one thing. Fact. This is my studio that you're borrowing as your courtroom.

He's gone. You invited me. Fact. You never. You invited yourself. Fact. I sue more for this radio station in terms of raising morale by yelling in the halls than Rachel Maddow. We can agree on that. People like Rachel Maddow that killed Judy Garland. You're really yelling at me.

Will, Andrew Yes The judge is cooling off in his chambers My question's for you, Will, the accuser here I'm sorry, can you repeat the question? Oh, I hadn't yet asked it, but okay Oh Why did people like you kill Judy Garland?

Well, you know what It wasn't people like you kill Judy Garland? Well, you know what? It wasn't people like me who did that. It was people like Andrew, really. Really? Well, now those are fighting words. Those are fighting words. Will, do you not like to laugh and have fun in the course of your comings and goings, your everyday life? Well, yes, but not at my own expense.

You don't appreciate a good prank now and again? Well, I like to laugh, but I don't like to laugh at my own expense. Will, has Andrew been doing this since childhood? Yes, yes, and that Vermouthini almost killed me Well, can you cite one example from childhood Of Andrew's behavior such as this You know, it wasn't so much So much the pranks as just

You know, the constant Movie quotes It just wears you down Okay, Andrew Constant movie quotes. It just wears you down. Okay, Andrew. Isn't it sad what happened to Judy Garland, really? I mean, it's terrible. It is tragic. She died way too soon.

Now, you say that you were born for the theater. Do you really feel, honestly, in your heart that you were born for the theater? I do, honestly. I loved being on the stage in high school. I was in, I believe, 13 productions. Like what? Well, in high school, I played Roger Debris in The Producers on stage. I've played, who else did I play?

Okay. And I also was in Annie, and that, I had a smaller role. I played Bert Healy, and I played Lieutenant O'Malley as well and one of Roosevelt's cabinet members. I was also – oh, it's all coming a blur now. I know that if I count them back – oh, let's see. Top three favorite Broadway musicals of all time, Will. I mean Andrew. Andrew, Andrew.

Okay. Oh, that's a difficult – well, right now I'd say I'm really in love with Wicked. I love, oh, Cats. Oh, my God. I love Cats. Who is your favorite Galinda in Wicked? Oh, Kristen Chenoweth. You can't beat Kristen Chenoweth.

We saw her, and he pouted the entire time. Andrew, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm looking at an avatar of you on Skype, and looking at you, you look like somebody who is not in love with the theater in your avatar. You look like you could be a rugby player. So I was going to call BS on your whole shit here for a little while. But I think you have proven yourself with these obscure Roosevelt cabinet members

in Annie, as well as knowing that Kristen Chenoweth right off the bat is the ultimate Galinda. Monty, can I just say I can't even? I can't even? I can't even. No. I cannot even. This is my time right here. No, no.

This is the time that I talk to them. This is my podcast. This is when I get to talk to them and then you come back. I came back like 30 minutes ago into your Broadway podcast with Andrew. It's not. I can't even do this anymore. Let's talk about. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Here's a message.

Fact. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

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Not today. Not today of all days. This was supposed to be my vacation. Oh, hi, Will and Andrew. How are you doing? Doing quite well. Quite well. There is no question in my mind

that Andrew is this comes to him naturally. It is not affected. He is boisterous. He is loud. It is not affected. He is boisterous, loud, born for the theater. Andrew, what are you going to do with your life? Well, in the truant, I would love to act,

but I also plan to get involved in the film community or theater community any way I can. Whatever I can do, write, direct, produce, even just be a PA to start with. I'll do whatever it takes. When are you moving to Los Angeles? Well, that might take some time. I'm waiting for someone to graduate after I graduate. So it might be two years, sadly. But I will be in Dallas, and there's some great opportunities here for me to get started so I can at least get myself a name built up. But I'd like to – in all honesty, I would love to move to L.A. right after I graduate, which might happen. I might just leave and go to L.A. I wish you the very best of luck. You are a natural, but you're driving your brother crazy.

Yes, yes. That is true. Do you love your brother oh yes i do we've been through so much together and will you love your brother yes right yes right here's the thing it is not it is not ever this court's intention to tell people to act in ways that are unnatural to them or to discourage them from expressing themselves. It is hard. It would be very hard for me to find in your favor,

Will, under almost any circumstances, barring the fact that Andrew might be hurting a human being. But luckily for you, he did. He almost killed you with vermouth. Yes. Yeah. And that, to me, is the tipping point. That is too far.

That's what killed Judy Garland, almost literally. I think that might be true. Oh, goodness. I think she might have had some, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because after a while, right, Judy Garland grew up, and she didn't have the Dream Factory pushing the drugs on her. She became a grown-up.

And she didn't have the dream factory pushing the drugs on her. She became a grown-up. And she, despite the addiction issues and obvious traumatic scarring she had had from being a child star, as an adult, took responsibility for her life because that's what happens. That's what being an adult means. And I am saying to you, Andrew, you should not change. I think you're fantastic. And I think that you should not strive to rein yourself in unless you are aware that you are causing other people discomfort and harm.

Harm in the form of vermouth, discomfort in the form of discomfort. I have no doubt, Andrew, that you will have a reality show of your own someday. Right now, the world around... Thank you. You're going to be producing the show. That was a sincere thank you. I know. I'm going to put you in the fresh banana man. That would be a great show.

Jonathan, the fresh banana man. You know, I already got the Bat Brothers. That was my you know, the Sturdivant Brothers who lived in the house full of bats. That was going to be Judge John Hodgmanman presents bat bros was going to be the, it was going to be the greatest,

but then one of them decided to move to Thailand and send me pictures of Canadian pizza boxes. He failed me. He failed me. But, but you, Andrew, you could go all the way.

I'm going to put you, I'm going to put you up in a, I'm going to put you up in Maine, you know, and you're gonna be you're gonna be a rival banana salesman to jonathan who's the fresh banana man and it's just gonna be banana wars this is a pretty good show i love it i like this show a lot born to work at a rest stop i've just seen you and jonathan i have a letter by the way folks to read from jon from Jonathan. He wrote in from Maine. But in the meantime, the world is not your reality show. I mean, the thing is that if you yelled and cussed and acted out as much as people on the reality shows that you love, you know, it would be society would break down and um i i think that

an occasional an occasional outburst right uh is funny but uh but you got to go easy on these practical jokes i'm sorry i lost my train of thought because i'm so tired monty don't even start don't even start don't start i start. Don't start. I'm tired. Here, I made you a martini. Oh, thank you. Oh, no. Here's the point. Don't ever change. You're fantastic. You've got to be a little bit—I advise you to be a little bit more aware of your surroundings. It is time for you to be an adult and take responsibility

for your actions and appreciate that the world is not your reality show. If your brother is clearly uncomfortable with the attention that you are drawing upon yourself, it is a courtesy to your brother whom you love to say

you're just like the people who killed Judy Garland. Maybe just not say it at the top of your lungs, right? Take it easy on the practical jokes because no one enjoys them. No one likes practical jokes except for the person who's pulling the prank. And everybody around them. No. Maybe the people who are watching at home, but there's no one watching at home yet. Go out and get a practical joke show, and then you can do practical jokes on your brother.

Then that's your livelihood. You have to do it. But appreciate that, you know, your mom saw that tie and wanted to buy it for you. She is showing courtesy and love for you. You need to show courtesy and love for the people you love in your life and just the people who are also just trying to eat their migas in peace. So I am not ordering you to stop with the scenes. I am asking you to be contextually aware.

You may not adulterate a martini again, either of you, or I'll be really mad. You may pull one final prank on Will that causes no one harm in order to pay him back because your mom should have bought you that Fabergé tie. Will, that was wrong. And then you're even. You're grown-ups. You're going to move. You're going to wait for whoever it is,

and you're going to move to L.A., and you're going to find people who will love to talk like NeNe Leakes with you all day long. But because of your love for your brother, just keep the volume down a little bit. Maybe. You know what I'm saying? Be a grown-up.

Be a grown-up. That's all. If you really feel like you have to make a scene, I order you to do it in Chick-fil-A. If you walk into Chick-fil-A, all bets are off. You know what I mean? Like, that is total free speech zone. Everywhere is free speech zone. You know what I mean? Like that is total, total free speech zone. Everywhere is free speech zone.

Do you understand, Andrew? I'm not ordering you to do anything, but I am asking you to remember your love for your brother and appreciate that he loves and supports you. Even though he blew it with the tie, I think he does love and support you. The people around you don't know what's going on and they get scared. If someone yells out in a restaurant uh uh you are fantastic um and you also have to appreciate that other people right uh are also

fantastic even if they're not loud and so don't don't make them don't make them squirm uh uh unless it's chick-fil-a and they deserve to squirm. So this isn't, I find in, I find in Andrew's favor, I can't, I can't repress speech. But I, but I,

but I, I do, I do encourage you to, to appreciate that you're a grownup man. All right. I would just like to say thank you. And that I've always depended on the kindness of strangers oh god no that's no that's no that's something i can't rule he didn't he said that

look i can't stop a person from from quoting a movie some people didn't even get that was a cult ref right and the other thing is like he said it like, he said it at the right time in a proper tone. It was kind of a dud joke. But, you know, that's what you learn in life. Do you know what I mean? But he didn't scream. He didn't go. He didn't say boo to me.

He didn't throw a vermouthy in my face or anything else. That's totally allowable. I got to allow that. You know what I mean? Just make sure that your reality show that you're enjoying is enjoyable for everyone else. I find in favor of Andrew with the caveats that I've mentioned. No damages shall be awarded. Oh, no.

One damage shall be awarded. Andrew, you may pull one final prank on Will that doesn't cause him any harm. And then you also have to give him a hug because you guys love each other. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that's all. Andrew, are you happy with the judge's decision? Yes, I am quite happy with the judge's decision. I'm very pleased with the verdict.

I'm now plotting what that last practical joke will be Do you have any early leaders? I'm trying to think Here's one that I taught my son who's obsessed with Wicked He hides in a shopping cart at a supermarket or something

or where there's a roll of paper towels over him. He pops out at the cash register and says, what year is it? And then I say, it's 2014. And then he says, I made it! And then he jumps out of the carriage and runs away. It's just a thought.

Wait a minute. We actually did that. I spent a lot of time, first of all, trying to figure out the connection between that story and Wicked. That was a misdirect. I'm just saying that they both have a tendency towards flamboyant things. For example, my son walks around the house all the time quoting Wicked,

so I can see from Will's perspective how that would be totally annoying. But, Andrew, what's your favorite song from Wicked? Oh, it's definitely popular by Kristen Chenoweth. Oh, we saw her perform that just last Friday. It was, oh, I just love the way she does that. Whenever I see someone less fortunate than I. And let's face it, who isn't? Less fortunate than I.

My tender heart tends to start to bleed. Are we violating some sort of copyright law? Oh, I hope not. I see. I don't even have the energy anymore. It was a transformative work. Andrew, I think it's just to film everything that you do and call it a reality show. And then you have to subvert a judge, John Hodgman's ruling. Don't do that.

Put it on the internet and then become a star. I'm about to take back the prank, actually. Please do. Yeah, you know what? I'm taking it back. Sorry, Andrew. Now, Will, here's what's going to happen. I'm going to take back the prank because this could go too wrong in too many different ways.

He's going to make it so good that it would be bad. And what I'm going to order instead is that, Will, you've got to go on eBay or whatever, and you've got to find that tie, and you've got to buy it for your brother. That's better. Oh, God. That's a good one. Oh, yes. How much would it cost?

Thousands of dollars? Too much. How much? What's your job, Will? I don't have a job. All right. You know what? Both of you get jobs.

I do have a job. What is your job? I would just like, I sell cosmetics at a cosmetic store. How much would a Fabergé tie cost? Oh, I cannot remember. It was so long ago. But I mean, now they don't make them anymore, right? I can't find them.

That's the problem. I mean, yeah, everything's just changing. It's very hard now to find these Fabergé ties, I think. I haven't seen one in, I guess it's now maybe seven years the world presses in i feel like i'm i feel like i'm watching gray gardens right now this monologue is fantastic i feel like you're just wandering you're just like wandering around an old house talking to yourself about ties i love the beals of gray garden god rest their souls and and. Andrew, let me tell you something. You guys both get jobs, right?

Because then you can be like me, John Hodgman. You're talking to a guy who saw... Get ready, Monty. I'm ready. You're talking all your Broadway stuff. I saw Wicked on Broadway, original cast. I wish I could have seen Joel Grey as the wizard. Yeah, I did.

I did see him. I saw Kristen Chenoweth and I saw yeah saw it my heart boom Andrew the guy who does the makeup for Wicked lives right down the street from this kangaroo courtroom in Northampton you do cosmetics I would love to

introduce you to him you think you're more real than me you think you're more real than me no no alright which one of us which one of us spent the night I would love to introduce you to him. You think you're more real than me? You think you're more real than me? No. No. All right. Which one of us spent the night in Grey Gardens, the house? Oh, yeah. Which one of us slept in their bedroom? Which one of us drank a martini from a glass that I found in the house.

And only as I was drinking it did I see the monogram EBB. Edith Bouvier Beal. Big Edie. Mic drop. You guys, you guys are it. You guys are my new reality show. I'm putting you both to use the new Bat Bros. I like this.

Start filming, Will. I forgot even what we're supposed to be doing in this pod. We're supposed to use the new Bat Bros. I like this. Start filming, Will. I forgot even what we were supposed to be doing in this pod. We were supposed to be clearing the docket. Well, thank you, Will and Andrew. Hang on. I want these guys on for the docket. You want to hang them on for the docket? Yeah, I want to hear their opinions. We're going to clear the docket with you, Will and Andrew. Docket Bros.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have

no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o ah we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Michael writes, My best friend Peter and I are in a two-man book club.

The idea is, one, to push ourselves to read the books we've always meant to read. Two, to have some structured hangout, bro time. And three, to hear each other's insights on the books. We've tackled eight books together in the last two years. I've listened to two of these books in audiobook format. I feel that listening to an audiobook is a perfectly valid way to participate in the book club. Peter says it's not really reading. Recently, Peter announced that he would not be finishing Nabokov's Pale Fire, a book that he assigned, no less, even though I had already finished it. I found reading Pale don't order gag orders, but... Will, what do you say?

gag orders, but Will, what do you say? Well, I would say that listening to books on audio tape is a perversion. That is not what books are meant for. The text is living, and you need to interact with the text and not just sit there

and listen on the tape. Andrew, what do you say? Andrew, what do you say? I have to agree. I think books on tape are abhorrent, unless you have to use them, in case you have something that makes it to where you can't read. I say the real way to really enjoy the book is a physical, hard, you know, paper book bound in some fashion and really interacting and really touching and feeling and experiencing the joy of that literature. Batbros agree. Monty, I know where you stand. Verdict is you guys are both wrong.

Yeah. I don't, I don't listen to, I don't listen to audio books cause I can't get it in that way. And I, I, on the record in the New York times magazine saying that you should not, if you listened to a book on audio tape or whatever they use these days on wax cylinder, you cannot say I read it. You say I listened to it. It is not the same thing as reading.

Here I agree with you guys in that it is a different cognitive experience than actually sitting down and reading the book and interacting with the text. As you said, Will, I presume that means acting it out. I don't know. It is a different cognitive experience of the same work, but the difference is so minimal that in the case of the book club, certainly having listened to Pale Fire would count as, is the equivalent to having read it. And this dude should not bully his friend. Judge John Hodgman, you turned me on to the Song of Ice and Fire, the Game of Thrones books, years ago. Yep. Listened to all of them in audiobook, back and forth, commuting to work for like a year.

I have three young kids, would never have had time to sit down and experience that. You wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. I would not have had the opportunity to enjoy it in any way, shape, or form, and I do audiobooks while I commute all the time. Even though I made the time to read it. Well, I'm saying there are different experiences. I agree with both of you guys, but one is not

we shouldn't be snobs about it. And earlier this year, I finished the audiobook version of Les Mis! Okay, that's enough. You know, that's just as bad as watching something like Lawrence of Arabia on an iPhone. That's just as bad. It's not. No, it's not. It's not at all just as bad. That is a, that is... Oh, it's terrible.

It uses a different part of your brain, and some people prefer that part of their brain and can actually understand things better using that part of their brain. Yeah, it's not the same thing at all, Andrew, because Lawrence of Arabia... I used to like you. Shh. Shh. Shh, shh, shh, shh.

Because Lawrence of Arabia on an iPhone is... You are still viewing the movie, but... But you missed so much. I know, but... It was meant to be on a big screen. No, no, I know. You could see all of it. I know, I... But you missed so much. I know. It was meant to be on a big screen. I know. I agree with you. It is categorically lesser experience to watch

Lawrence of Arabia on an iPhone compared to seeing it projected well at the Coolidge Corner Theatre in Brookline, Massachusetts. That is absolutely true. That is a lesser experience, but this is, I hate to use the term in a court of law, separate but equal, listening to an audiobook versus reading an audiobook. Different cognitive experience, but one is not measurably better than the other.

I think David Lynch would disagree. Well, David Lynch is crazy. But what I'm saying is... He's fantastic. He's a true auteur. the true auteur. Reading, you know, you can't even use it like this is the reading the book was the way it was intended to be

experienced because reading aloud has been part of reading since reading. And writing is just writing what was being read aloud or spoken aloud. Andrew, don't you even start with me on that now. Next. We're in a fight. This is the feud that's going to keep people coming

back to the docket bros. Go on. Tracy writes, I have a dispute with my daughters, Emily and Haley, regarding people watching. My family was waiting in line to order food when I saw a young man who was wearing a Renaissance Fair worthy puffy shirt and button-up vest. Not unlike the one that Andrew said. Just read it.

I indicated with raised eyebrows to my family to take a look. I was admonished by my two daughters that, quote, he can wear what he wants. Moments later, a young man came by with an unusual hairstyle. Both my daughters raised their eyebrows and nodded toward the young man with the conspicuous hairdo. I had to call them on their hypocrisy.

They say it's okay to comment on someone's hairstyle or haircut because a hairstyle is a long-lasting fashion decision. Clothing is a daily choice. I say any obvious conspicuous style effect is used primarily to draw attention to oneself, whether it's negative or positive. Acknowledging someone's unusual style is socially acceptable. What say you, Judge? Well, Andrew, you're someone who attracts attention to yourself. What's your feeling on this one? I think, first off, people watching is fun, but people will do what they want.

And I have to say it's – I don't care what people wear. They can do what they want. I'm a big fan of forward fashion or interesting hairstyles. I think it's all a little performance in itself. We perform our gender and such. So I think, you know, it's, it's, I think that the mother was, here's the question and will, you can chime in if you want. I appreciate your reticence. Uh, are the daughters hypocrites? Okay. Well, all right. That's yes. And what about you?

Docket bro named will, I'm sorry. What yes. And what about you, docket bro named Will? I'm sorry. What were they doing wrong? I don't understand. The issue was they made some sniffy eye roll at a dude dressed up for a Ren Faire. Right? No. Dad made a sniffy eye roll at a dude dressed up for a Ren Faire.

And they were like, Dad, you can't comment on him. And then the girls made a sniffy eye roll at another dude who had some kind of haircut. And the dad said, why can you do that and I can't do that? And the argument was a haircut is longer lasting and more permanent. Especially if it is a permanent. Yeah, I think you can see where this is going. Those girls are hypocrites. Yes, they are hypocrites.

You can comment on anyone if you like, as long as you do it in a respectful way. I mean, like you could shout people like you killed Judy Garland at somebody's hairdo

that you don't like. No, you can't. You can't shout that. You can think it or you that you don't like. No, you can't. I'd say that's a little too far. You can think it or you could say it to your friend, but you can't shout at someone for looking different because that would make them uncomfortable. The whole point of this whole conversation is to make sure that we all get along and aren't throwing tables over at each other all the time. I know you knew that, Monty, but this is the point. I know you knew that, Monty, but this is the point. If you dress or act or choose an affect that is designed to draw attention to yourself, you should expect some attention. And I hope that it's always positive attention.

Also, it is a fair game to, without causing anyone any harm, to look to your sister or to your dad or to your brother and go, check out the dude with the pirate shirt. And here's the thing. Those girls think they can get away with it because they're girls. An old man isn't allowed to do it. And they love dudes from Ren Faires and they hate haircuts and they are guilty. Anything else? That's it. All right.

Guys, do you guys know? Let me ask you a series of questions and you can answer truthfully. Do you guys know where you can find out about all of my upcoming shows? Your website. Right. JohnHodgman.com. And if you want to get fancy, just hit a slash and put tour on there and you go directly to I got shows coming up in Los Angeles. I think we're booking Atlanta, North Carolina. In fact, the Research Triangle, which I recently ruled was not as good as Philadelphia. And guess who's having me come to a show? Chapel Hill. No, it's Raleigh. And guess who isn't? Philadelphia. I know, right? Rough.

We can talk about that at the shows. You can also buy my limited edition Ragnarok collector's kit and survival kit. Go to bit.ly slash survive Ragnarok. It's just that simple, you dudes. Check it out.

You get a urine flask and survival mayonnaise. I forgot to even mention last week a beautiful, you'll like this, Andrew, a beautiful cologne, a signature Hodgman cologne. Oh. Yeah.

That I worked up special with Drom Fragrances. It's a real thing and it's for men and women and it smells good, you know? So check it out, Hodgman by Hodgman. Do you guys know how to submit a dispute if you have one? Obviously you do. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHo, and you'll go directly to a submission form,

or you can write me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. Or you can write me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. As did recently, Jonathan from the Kennebunk southbound I-95 service station wrote me a letter. This is the man who sells fresh bananas. And you should listen to what he has to say, Andrew and Will, because I may send you up there to live with him as part of a reality show. Hello, sir. It has been about a month since my last personal note to you. I apologize for the delay. School has taken up a great deal of my time.

There has been a great deal of interest from your fans in what I do. I no longer keep track of how many of them have visited me. As usual, they have been courteous and respectful towards me. I am noticing that there is a growing desire in myself to see where this might go next. I do not feel that remaining the way I was before our encounter is even possible anymore. I am marked. If I tried to work elsewhere, I would be noticed. I find myself in the position where I have to decide if I want to pursue a public lifestyle or abandon the public sphere entirely, because now I cannot do both, not prudently anyhow. I am not sure what to ask of you,

advice, mentoring, or training. Jonathan, I'll continue to read your letters on the air, fake air, and I will write back to you. I cannot train you in your life any more than I can offer anyone advice by calling in. But I'm glad to know that you're doing well. And and as as you can see, Andrew and Will, people who appear on the show, their lives are changed. I bet you. I bet you, Jonathan, you probably could probably get a job somewhere else and people would would accept you, even though you're now an internationally known podcast phenomenon. But keep selling bananas, and we'll have more updates from Jonathan in the future. Andrew, does this seem like a guy that you want to get into a banana war with?

Are you willing to live in Maine for two years? Two years in Maine? Would I be in a lighthouse? We can probably shoot a season in three days. Whoever sells the most fresh bananas. Anyway, if you write fresh bananas, apparently, according to Jonathan, if you type in fresh bananas here into Google, the top four results relate to him. You can find his Twitter feed and everything else you need,

and you can continue his goals. Since you guys have been such good sports, are you guys on Twitter? I am not on Twitter, sadly. I have not yet started that. Do you just do Instagram? That's what all the kids do, I hear. I do Instagram. I had a Tumblr at one point, but then I got too obsessed, so I had to leave Tumblr.

Is there anything you want to plug? Aside from Chick-fil-A? Well, I guess... Well, you think it over. In the meantime, who gave us this week's title? Jason Yousis. Thanks, Jason. Our show is produced by Julia Smith and edited by Mark McConville.

This is the end of my vacation. I'll be going back to my regular non-studio next time where bailiff Jesse Thorne will once again greet me. But thank you once again. Guest bailiff Monty Belmonte and WRSI The River. Anything you'd like to plug? March 19th. I'm going to be camping out on the courthouse lawn in the cold in downtown Northampton to raise money for a local cancer charity. So you can go to WRSI.com and find out all the details and donate a lot of money or fresh bananas.

There you go. Now, boys, something you want to plug, docket bros? I'd say something that I... Support the arts. Don't bootleg DVDs or films, because at some point they lose some of the process, so really support the arts

and show your support to the artistic community. I would say yes. And especially if you know that the majority of your money is going to the artist. Yes, if you know. Yes, yes. Especially if you know the money from the artist. Well, if anybody sees me out

in public, please feel free to buy me a nice vodka martini extra dry with olives. No, gin martini only, everybody. Guess what? That's my prank on you. You're welcome. I want everyone in San Antonio to buy Will a gin martini and never stop.

Also, we all have to read Pale Fire in the next three days. All right, I got to go. This has been the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Thanks very much, guys, for hanging around. Monty Belmonte. We'll see you next time. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville.

You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at Forum.MaximumFun.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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