Judge John Hodgman - Six Feet Plunder

Episode Date: December 4, 2013

A tale of Christmas tree liberation.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, six feet plunder. Friends and former classmates Brittany and Reg bring their case before the court. On an amble through a cemetery after Christmas, Brittany found hundreds of potted Christmas trees left graveside. She saw that they weren't being cared for and, hoping to save them from the trash, took the trees elsewhere. they weren't being cared for and hoping to save them from the trash took the trees elsewhere. Her friend Reg says this is tantamount to grave robbing. It was done without permission. He insists that Brittany was wrong to take the trees, no matter what her intention was. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

I am 227 million kilometers from the sun. Its light is already 10 minutes old. It will not reach Pluto for another two hours. Two hours into my future, I observe meteorites from a glass balcony, thinking about my father. Twelve seconds into my past, I open my fingers. The photograph is falling. I am watching the stars. Halley's comet tumbles through the solar system on its great 76-year ellipse. My father admired the sky for its precision. He repaired watches. It's 1945.

I sit in a Brooklyn kitchen fascinated by an arrangement of cogs on black velvet. I am 16 years old. It is 1985. I am on Mars. I am 56 years old. I am the judge of the court of Judge John Hodgman. I'm trying to give a name to the force that sets this podcast in motion. Its name is Jesse Thorne.

Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God or whatever? I do. I do, Your Honor. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that every year graveside at Christmas he expects his living relations to leave not trees, but rather beasts of the land and sea. Indeed. Yes. Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman?

I do like to have an ibex by a graveside. I think it's just a very nice look. Long, elegant legs. Indeed. Brittany, Reg, you may be seated. For immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom? I will go with you first, Brittany. Okay, two guesses, but the first one, I don't know if I get two, but the first one would be Tinkers. You don't, but go ahead. No. Okay, I'm going to go with Tinkers, that new book about clock making. I don't even know what Tinkers... What's Tinkers? Tinkers is a book about clock making? Well, Tinkers or Tinkers, I think that's it.

It's a great book. Tinkers or Tinkers or Tinkers? Yes, all three. I think it is just Tinkers. You are on the right track because you know a fair bit about clock making or watch making. Is that not so? It is so. So I was giving this one to you guys

as a gimme. This should be a watchmaker gimme. What? Reg, what's your guess? I have no clue. Alright, Brittany, what was your second guess? Well, it's definitely not the second guess because, no. What is the second guess?

I'll take the second guess. That's definitely not. That's a terrible guess. Just say what it is. I know it's not. Yeah, just say it. And this is me saying I definitely know this is not it. Solaris, the book by Stanislav Lim.

Solaris? There was never watchmaking in that book. The only reason I thought it might be is because it's you know about a person in space on a space station oh right the Stanislaw Lem book Solaris that was also the base the basis of the two film versions one by

Tartovsky and the other by Steven Stoderberg you know what I like the second one so I'm going to ask you to shut your pie hole. It's shut promptly. Oh, that's a first in a while. No,

you were both wrong. You were both wrong. All guesses are wrong. It was a quote from the character, John Ostrander, AKA Dr. Manhattan from the graphic novel Watchmen by Alan Moore, which has a lot of watchmaking in it.

And I chose it because the thing, well, obviously I was interested in this case because of the thieving of Christmas trees. That's crazy. But also compounding, like compounding the crazy is the fact that you both know each other from watchmaking school. Is that correct? That is indeed true, yes. You wrote in, Brittany, you submitted the case writing, Reginald, last name redacted, is a dear friend and personal hero of mine.

We were desk partners in watchmaking school. What watchmaking school did you go to? I will allow you to buzz market your watchmaking academy. Was it DeVry? It was DeVry, wasn't it? I wish, but no. It's the watchmaking school at the North Seattle Community College in Seattle, Washington. It's called the Watch Technology Institute. And it is a, I think it's one of three schools in the US that teaches watchmaking that's certified by Rolex

when we went there it was a Swiss program but now it's transitioned over to the Rolex Sato program Rolex might not want you to endorse them if you're going to be if you're going to be like bad mouthing the profession or whatever I didn't bad mouth the profession

maybe not. No one's bad. Hey, Reg, Reg, Reg, Reg. Well, she did bring in like dead plants. Reg, I hear a putter. Oh, Reg. Excuse me, Your Honor. Yeah, Reg.

Reg, you will have every opportunity to speak. Believe me. A hostile witness. I'm talking. Well, I, yeah. Permission to treat Reg as a hostile watchmaker, I grant myself that permission. Okay. Brittany, you go to North Seattle Community College for Vanishing Technology.

You are trained on making and restoring watches. Are you also making and restoring fax machines? No. Okay. Do you still live in the Seattle area? I just returned to Seattle, yes. And where were you traveling around to? I was working in the Bering Sea.

Oh, okay. You're a deadliest catcher. No, not exactly, but I was working on a long liner, yes. On a long liner catching what? Cod. Cod. We were harvesting cod. Did you have a good season?

The first trip, yes. The second trip, no. But now you devote most of your time and energy accusing Brittany of being a grave robber. That was previously. Brittany had brought it up when I had spoken with her upon returning to Seattle. And now she wants to make an issue out of it, so I'm more than willing to bring it up again. So, Brittany, what is it that you stand accused of?

What is it you have been doing that has caused an issue? You're going into graveyards and taking trees? That could be an appropriate summary of my actions. You are, as we call, you're stealing miniature Christmas trees. So you are a seasonal miniature klepto-arbologist. Yes. Well, I'd say if I agreed with the stealing part, yes. But I would say a miniature seasonal arborologist. I don't know. Your story's already going down the line. Okay.

Well, let me restate what I understand to be true of this case. You have gone into sometime around the holiday season of last year, presumably you went into a Seattle graveyard, noticed that there were a lot of small Christmas trees that had been left by mourners at the graveside of their loved ones. These Christmas trees were ill tended. It was past Christmas, uh, into the new year, presumably. And so you took them. Is that correct? Yes or no? That is correct. Yes. And so why is that not stealing? Because there was a sign posted that said decorations will be collected and disposed of five days after the holiday. And given that

the decorations were still there five days after the holiday, and obviously unwanted by those who put them there because they must have been aware of the cemetery policies, I felt as though they had been abandoned. And since the dead are dead and they can't have possessions, obviously they didn't belong to the dead. And if I were dead, I'd want my tree replanted. So I took them. No, Brittany, if you were dead, you would want nothing.

You'd be dead. Did the sign say that decorations would be removed five days after the holiday by Brittany? No. How many trees are we talking about, Reg? How many trees did she end up taking or removing? Well, the ones that I witnessed, I don't know, about 30 at least. 30? And then apparently there were more.

Yes. How did you... Her apartment went from being a normally furnished apartment to, I don't know, it looked like a forest. Brittany, how many trees? Reg estimates 30. Is that a correct estimate?

Or what's the over and under? That doesn't make any sense. How many trees? 30 or more? Far excess of that. Far excess of 30. How many trees did you liberate from this graveyard? Well, it was multiple graveyards all over Seattle. How long was this

going on or is it still going on? Well, no, it's not currently going on. And actually this particular incident happened in 2010. And it went on for, you know, the month of January until all the trees were gone. For your own health and safety, can I ask a quick point of clarification? When you say graveyards all over Seattle, were any of those graveyards places that could otherwise be described as ancient Indian burial grounds? No. Luckily, no. No curses will be laid upon my soul. Well, I'm not so sure about that. I mean, if you're, you know, if you believe in any kind of superstition or beyond the grave curse mongering, I would imagine stealing decorations from a grave might raise the ire of the undead. Why not? I see how you would feel that way, but I didn't steal them.

I relocated them. I didn't steal them for my own purposes. You see, I took them to replant them so they could live on in memory of the person who passed away. Well, okay. So let me trace this back. You went into one graveyard and saw these trees, these small Christmas trees. Do they have decorations on them? Yes. Were they in good shape or bad shape? What day did you see them?

The first day that I saw them was the 30th of December. The 30th of December. And they were... Why were you... Yes. Were you visiting the grave of a loved one? No. I'm not from Seattle, so I have no deceased relatives here.

But I was... What was the graveyard in particular? It was the cemetery that happens to be located at the airport here in Seattle. You see, my friend was flying in from out of town to visit me for New Year's. And so I went to pick her up. But there wasn't a cell phone waiting lot at that point. And her plane was delayed by like two hours. So I was just driving around in circles.

And I was trying to find somewhere to, you know, go. And then I was like, wait a minute, there's a cemetery. I'll just go there. You know, why not? Yeah, but why? Well, I was working estate sales at that time and I think I just had this morbid sense of, I don't know. You're talking like that was the first time you ever visited a cemetery. You have this thing about cemeteries, and I want to know what it is. Stand by. Brittany, please be quiet. I want to hear from Reg now. Reg, why do you say she has a thing about cemeteries? What behavior could you describe? prior to when I met her, I know that in one instance, she calls me up at like 1130 at night, and I had just gone to bed. And she asked me to come help her with something that involved visiting her at a cemetery. Now, I did not actually enter the cemetery, but I did meet

her outside of the cemetery because she lost her watch, her precious heirloom watch. And, you know, to this day, I never got a straight answer as to what she was even doing in the cemetery because I didn't want to ask because I didn't want to get into some detail that I would have regretted knowing. Reg, was this before or after the trees? This was before. Before. Okay. This is well before the trees. So that was probably the same year.

Brittany, I think we're all owed an explanation. What were you doing in the cemetery? Were you lost your watch? Were you trying to raise the dead? Were you partaking in a satanic ritual? What was going on? Well, I'm obviously a member of some horrible cult. But other than that, no. I happened to be taking a walk. And I not alone. My old like my old roommate, Jonathan, happened to be with me and we were walking around. And there's this beautiful cemetery that's located over in the university district. And it's on this hill where you can see the whole city from inside the cemetery. How did you lose your watch?

Well, because I jumped over a barbed wire fence and I ripped my pants and I fell and hit my butt on the ground really hard. And my watch fell off the chain and I walked around the cemetery and then I went home and then I took off my coat and found that the watch was no longer attached to the chain. Realized it must have fallen when I ripped my pants. Then I went back, jumped back over the fence, looked for the watch. What time was it? What time were you wandering around the cemetery? It was quite late. What time was it? I would say it was probably around 9 o'clock. So the cemetery was closed?

Yes. Is that why you were leaping over barbed wire fences to get in there? Yes. I just wanted to see the city lights. You're a cemetery scofflaw by nature. I suppose. Now look, Reg, there's nothing weird about wandering around cemeteries. There's a beautiful cemetery here in Brooklyn that I enjoy wandering around with my daughter all the time. It's called Greenwood Cemetery and it's a beautiful space. Yes, but at nine o'clock in the evening though, at 9 o'clock in the evening, though? At 9 o'clock in the evening, it must have been November, December.

It would have been well past sundown. Right. And there's no view. Well, first of all, you're correct. We do not walk in the cemetery after dark or when it is closed. We merely walk in the cemetery on gray, rainy days so that we can convince the few mourners who are there that we're weird

ghosts. But that's all. That's all we do. The point is... That's fantastic. There's nothing wrong about a cemetery, but Reg raises a good point. Why... Yes, what's the real reason you were there? It was literally to see the lights. This was with your ex-ro there? It was literally to see the lights.

This was with your ex-roommate? Literally just to see the lights. John, is this someone that you were romantically involved with? No, Jonathan prefers the other sex. So we're just fair. When you say ex-roommate, do you mean creepy ghost? I might. He's a dead ship's captain?

He's the ghost of a drowned ship's captain who preferred men? I wish that were my best friend. Yeah, actually. That would be great. Well, simply having a morbid streak is not itself a crime, but already you are proving to me that you have a vigilantism when it comes to your desire to be in cemeteries and your desire to liberate trees. Now, on that first trip during the airport visit on December 30th of 2010, when you first noticed these trees around and you noticed, oh, wow, there's a sign there saying that these trees will be removed in five days. Technically, this is one minute past the time that they're no longer allowed.

Did you take the trees then? I did. I took them. How many trees did you take when you were picking up your friend from the airport? At least enough to fill the back of my car so that she had nowhere to put her suitcase. What kind of car did you drive? An 81 Ford Bronco? No, I drove an 85 Ford Mustang, but now I drive a 2008 Honda Fit. How many mini Christmas trees will fit into the trunk of an 85 Ford Mustang? An 85 Ford Mustang? Oh my, the trunk is really tiny, so maybe you'd get four. Is that what you were driving that night? No, the car that I had that day was my 2008 Honda Fit. So that car... Honda Fit, that's a hatchback, is it

not? It is, yeah. So how many trees did you get in there? Did you use their patented magic seats that fold completely flat like a bed i did i would say there were at least i don't know maybe maybe 23 trees 23 trees that first time yes yes and the point was that you were going to replant them? Yes. I mean, so I actually had a good intention and a plan behind this. I took a photograph of the grave and the tree before taking the tree.

I did this for every tree. Oh, it's true. The evidence has been submitted. Wait a minute. Everyone be quiet for a second. Reg, did you just do a raspberry? I can't help it. I saw these trees littering her apartment. It was horrible.

Excuse me. I had plant lights so that they were all getting an appropriate amount of light. Thank you. The intention was to replant these trees. You took 23 the first trip. Just answer my questions with yes or no, please. I don't want any stories. How many times or a direct answer, please. How many more graveyard visits did you make during your tree liberation enterprise? It is difficult for me to have an accurate number. Why? Did you go into a fugue state? Do you have no memory of that time? I might have blocked it out, but I would have to say it

was, oh, I don't, maybe 15. 15 distinct trips. How many trees did you estimate you took out of these graveyards? At least 100. At least 100. And how many of those were successfully replanted? I planted, personally, 72 of these trees. Where did you plant them? In Reg's backyard? No, I planted them on my friend's property.

This was a big enterprise to undertake. It is, but they were small trees and they helped me. It was three of us planting these trees together on their property. So 72 got replanted. What happened to the remaining 28 plus? 72 got replanted. What happened to the remaining 28 plus? The remaining were, it was definitely more than 28 because I gave about 30 of these to a landscaping company. I gave probably another 30 or more to a woman who had an antique shop on the Olympic Peninsula, which I actually did go back out and visit her and she had planted the said trees as she promised. What does an antique shop owner need with 30 small pine trees? If she's got a house out on the peninsula and a piece of property, you know, she had what she felt was a sparse forest. So she filled in the space with trees.

Fair enough. So that's, okay, so that's 72 plus 60, right? 132. And were you ever stopped in any of the graveyards as you were driving through, methodically removing dozens and dozens of trees? You were never stopped? No, there wasn't anybody there. When was your last trip to the graveyard to liberate trees? Sometime in late January. And then why did you stop?

Because there weren't any more. You had done it all. I guess. Or they had been finally collected by the groundskeeper who hadn't collected them before. Whether or not this was a crime, Reg, she got away with it. Why is this clearly such an issue still for you personally? Well, first of all, I didn't even remember the incident until she brought it up like a few weeks ago. But now that she's brought it up, I'm trying to remember it.

And this thing about 132 trees, I was not aware of that. I was not aware of the details of her like removing trees from the cemetery. I mean, to me, I mean, just the initial story or what we shared about it, when was this, three years ago or whatever.

To me, I thought that was unusual. But 132 trees and you visited the cemeteries or several cemeteries up to 15 times. Reg, Reg, Reg, you know what? I'm going to interrupt you there. I appreciate that you have a lot of things that you want to say, but you're basically repeating what we already know. The question is, why is this your business? Because she brought it to me. I personally don't care except that she's trying to bring up a suit. May I please interject here? Why are you bringing this up to Reg if this guy clearly is ready to move on with his life and ply the Bering Sea for Cod and doesn't want to have anything to do with your weird midnight adventures anymore?

and doesn't want to have anything to do with your weird midnight adventures anymore. Because when I mentioned the tree incident and the reason the tree incident was brought up is that I am now back in, you know, visiting the location where the incident took place. I, you know, wanted him to, to say like, okay, you're not a grave robber, but the reason it was brought up again is because I don't want to be called a grave robber. And he kept calling me a grave robber what you always maintain that i am a grave robber and i was wrong in taking the trees and i don't want to be called a grave robber anymore is that true reg have you

accused her of being a grave robber in public only when she brings it up uh no you brought it up oh no no yes you did i don't walk around a perfect stranger saying, this is my friend Brittany. She's a grave robber. No, I'm talking about the incident in question where you brought it up in front of everybody. Brittany, give me your recounting of the incident in question. Okay. So I had just come back from our lunch break when I was attending school here in Seattle. I had gone to the cemetery to get the

trees because there's a cemetery nearby. I returned. The trees were in my vehicle. Someone saw the trees in my vehicle and asked me about it when I entered back into the classroom. And Reg blurted out, oh, yeah, she didn't tell you? She's stealing those. She's stealing them from graves. She's a grave robber. Ha! And that caused, yes, yes, it was that incident that caused a big kerfuffle among the rest of the students. Well, you were offended because you were called a grave robber because you were taking things from graves. How did that negatively affect your life, aside from merely being accurate? I don't feel that's accurate, but okay. Well, because there was a particularly bizarre group of students in the class that year. A lot of them were, you know, I was the only female. It was a little bit of a, you know, male, macho, hostile environment. And they were always looking for reasons to pick

on me or be horrible to me. And this was an excuse for them. And Reg was aware of this. And it just became a big thing where people were putting terrible notes up about me around my desk. And what kind of notes would they leave? Oh, that I didn't have any integrity. You know, it's stuff about being a grave robber. I think one of them was faux fur is faux murder, which is not obviously that it's not an insult. Wait, sorry. Say that again. What was what I couldn't make out what you said. What did it say? Faux fur is faux murder. Reg, do you know what she's saying? faux fur is faux murder Reg, do you know what she's saying?

Yes, she was wearing a fake fur hat that day as well Oh, faux, faux fur F-A-U-X F-U-R Faux, like the Vietnamese noodle soup F-A-U-X Yes Fake fur

I understand Faux fur is faux murder Faux fur is faux F-U-R F-I-R though though. That's the pun? That was the bullying that you had to endure? No, unfortunately, they weren't as clever as you. He wasn't that clever. He didn't mean it to be funny. Do you have any evidence of these strongly worded letters that you received from your fellow tinkers?

No, unfortunately. You didn't collect them all in your apartment along with your dozens of trees? No. Can you make any claim that you actually suffered any emotional, meaningful emotional damage from people writing these letters? Meaning emotional damage. Well, it definitely affected my desire to be in the classroom. How do you feel, Reg, that you unleashed this campaign of harassment, which actually sounds bad? Well, I don't think I was responsible for unleashing a campaign of harassment, because what happened?

You said that I brought up that you had removed trees from a cemetery on your lunch break? No, why would I? I wouldn't even know. Someone else brought it up. No, someone at Reg, the story was very clear. Yeah, the story was very clear. Yeah, the story was very clear. Someone said, does anyone know why there are a bunch of miniature decorated Christmas trees in the back of that Honda Fit? And Reg, you said, yeah, Brittany has been robbing them from graves. Every watchmaker in the class got their bristles up and started writing long letters.

She's telling the truth about the letters. I do remember some of the letters. I thought they were meant in fun. And also, I think you were the one who brought up the thing about the trees. You were like, oh, look what I did on my lunch break. I just got some trees. And then maybe I said, where did you get them from, knowing the answer? And then you said, I got them from a cemetery.

And anybody who had heard you said that, anybody, not just people that you knew in the class, anybody who you told like on the street would think that is weird. I think Reg is denying this now because he's actually being publicly tried. What is Reg denying exactly? What is it that Reg did other than describe your taking trees from graves? Well, he's just denying the fact that he was the one to say where they were coming from and putting a negative light on the fact that they were coming from the cemetery. He portrayed me in a negative way. Would you have hid that information from your classmates yes I don't think I don't think I would have said yes I am taking these from a cemetery because like I said it was a hostile environment

I didn't need to give them another reason to be mean to me where the where you were you they already being mean to you? Well, they were already, yeah. I mean, it was, like I said, it was pretty weird. It was a bunch of guys. I was the only female. A lot of them asked me out on dates. I said no. So they then decided they hated me and decided to gang up on me basically and be mean to me for the rest of the year. Reg, is that an accurate description of the dynamic in the classroom? Leaving aside the tree issue. I can't presume to know what's going on in Brittany's head. I didn't think that there was anything overtly aggressive. I didn't think there was any like unseemly behavior, maybe in private with you that you never told me about. I wasn't aware of that. I knew that Shinehead or whatever you call them was like,

uh, trying to hit on you. And you, you, you were upset about that because you were trying to be his friend or whatever. But, uh, you know, I, I, I wasn't aware of just how, how uncomfortable you were made to feel. I, I, I would imagine if I were in your place, I would feel uncomfortable, but I don't know to what extent. Do you understand now that she was made to feel uncomfortable? Yes, and I imagine that because she was the only girl in that class grave – she had some serious emotional damage, suffered some serious emotional damage from this class. Now, a lot of this stuff happened immediately after this incident that has – I mean, all I did was call her a grave robber. Is that all?

Now, hey, a grave robber, what else would you call it? She was taking trees from a cemetery, several cemeteries, now that we've heard the whole story, which I think is unusual, I mean, to put it lightly. So, yeah, I called her a grave robber. Brittany, Brittany, you maintain that what you were doing was not stealing. Right. Did you have permission to take these trees? Did you have express permission to take the trees? No, I did not.

Okay. May I say something? There was a reason that, or the plan that I had was that I was going to take the trees The plan that I had was that I was going to take the trees to a designated place and return a photograph of that tree planted to the original grave where it was taken from with coordinates so that the person who left the tree there or the family could go and visit the tree. Did you have permission from those families to do that? No. Did you seek permission? No. Did you distribute the photographs to any of the families? No. There were too many trees. Why didn't you? Because there were too many?

There were too many, too many trees. And I didn't have any volunteers to help me. It was a lot to do for one person. It would be a good thing to do if I had more people helping me. that actually in some ways did not come to fruition because you did not follow through with telling the families about your self-appointed task. Is this an anomaly in your life or is this one of many projects that you've taken on of this kind? This is, I'd say, probably the only one like this that I have taken on. But you have another one in mind. You have another one in mind. Well, I hope, you know, should you rule that I am not a grave robber, that I would actually execute this project fully with photographs and coordinates

and in a designated area for families to visit their trees. That's something I would like to see happen. But yeah, if I'm a grave robber, well, then obviously I don't want to be one of those. How would you intend to contact the families now three years later? Well, I suppose I would. Well, I don't think that I can at this point. I don't really remember. So your request to continue your project and see it through is not meaningful because you can't do it.

What would you have me... Well, it would be this year, this new year. Oh, you're going to go back and take more trees? Well, no. I mean, only if you rule that I'm not a grave robber. Were you in control of your hobby when you were doing this? Yes. I am not a compulsive tree stealer. You realize that it's a reasonable thing to ask someone who has taken more than 100 trees

from 15 different graveyards. Not to mention several Indian burial grounds, I choose to believe. Ooh. Yes, I suppose I could see that that is a very reasonable question. If I were to find in your favor, what would you like me to find?

What would you like me to order? What would you like me to order? I would like Reg to never call me a grave robber again. And I would like him to help me plant this year's trees, take photographs and put the coordinates up for the people. Reg, if I find in your favor, what would you like me to order? I didn't know that I was going to be awarded anything. All I'm saying is that I don't think there was anything wrong with me calling her a grave robber. I mean, I don't need anything from Brittany.

Brittany's a doll. I love Brittany. But what I don't want to do is help her plant stolen trees. Okay. I think I've heard everything that I need to hear. I'm going to climb over this barbed wire fence into my chambers after hours and please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the

courtroom. Brittany, I feel like I need to clarify something that Reg said in passing. Can you tell me who Shinehead is? Oh, God. Yes, that is this boy, man, who had a shaved head and a curly mustache

and looked kind of like Mr. Clean, only with a mustache. Very weird. Wanted to lose a leg and have a fake leg put on instead. And had a massive collection of guns in his apartment. And that's all. Why did he want to lose a leg and have a fake leg put on instead for

sensual reasons? I don't, I don't know, I guess. Cause he just wanted to have like an ultra cool leg that did stuff. He wanted like a cyborg leg. Yes. He wanted a hollow leg so he could drink beer out of it or something.

How does this guy fit into this story? This guy sounds pretty amazing, honestly. He was the guy who left the note about the faux fur and it's kind of like. Oh, and all the other notes. He was probably the most aggressive person in this whole story. You know what? I take it back. I don't like this. Shine head guy.

Shiny though. His head may be. How do you feel about your chances? Brittany, you, you brought this case. You, you must've been hopeful going in.

Ah, yes, I was very hopeful because, you know, I asked a very conservative Catholic friend of mine, what he thought if I was actually really stealing. And he said, well,

no, I don't think you were stealing. You know, these people are dead. There's a sign that says they're going to be thrown away. I mean, technically, is it against the law? Maybe. But were you really stealing? No, especially as you had good intentions to replant them. And you did replant them, which I did. So I mean, I was hopeful. But I feel like, you know, I now sound like some sort of crazy kleptomaniac with a lot of bizarre hobbies did you consider asking anyone I mean you might not have been able to locate the families of the deceased or talk to the dead although who knows you could

have held a seance that would have been fun sounds like it's right up your alley, Little Miss Cemetery. But presumably if the trees were supposed to be discarded, you could have just called the cemetery and been like, remember how you were going to pay someone to discard these trees? What if I drive around in my Honda Fit and pick them all up and put them on my fold flat seats? Yes, that sounds so very reasonable. And for whatever reason, I was lacking reason. So I did not do that. And it would have been a much better approach, I'm sure. Because then I wouldn't be in this situation. Reg, how are you feeling about

your chances of prevailing in this case and never having to hear again about the damage that you've done to Brittany's heart and soul. I feel excellent about my chances. I'm glad that I didn't have to really embellish a lot on this story. And that basically Brittany put a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger as far as her side of the story went. Because you're the only one who doesn't think that your behavior is strange and unusual. And the least I could have done was call you a grave robber. Reg, you don't seem like a guy who lacks for confidence. Do I not seem that way?

I think in some instances I do lack confidence, but not in this case. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this whole thing when we come back with the verdict in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy,

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. So first of all, I want to say, Reg, you've spent too much time on the fishing boat. I presume that that's an all-male crew on the fishing boat, right? Except for one woman, yes. Well, okay, then no. The answer is no. It's not all-male. But it's predominantly male. No, it's not all male, but it's predominantly male. It's predominantly male.

And there's a lot of good-natured teasing and sort of bonding through aggressive being mean to each other that happens on the boat, right? Yes, very much. Yeah, exactly. And I think there's probably something similar to that in the equally isolated and frankly deadly world of watchmaking, or it would seem so because Brittany described one classmate as a guy who is trying to transform himself into a pirate slash soldier of fortune. And we already know that watchmaking attracted one guy who was willing to run off to sea. So it is a pretty esoteric group of primarily guys. And I would say, before I make my final ruling, Reg, that you are perhaps not... Your intentions are, for the most part, good, but you were not being a particularly good friend to Brittany by lobbing the grave robbing accusation into this group of obviously disturbed and marginal dudes.

evidence for your not appreciating what you were doing is that even now, as Brittany recounts, receiving strongly worded letters from a guy who keeps guns in her home, you still don't say, oh, God, I'm sorry that that happened. I really shouldn't have kicked it up a notch by pointing out the grave robbing that you've been doing. So I would say that, first of all, my first ruling is that you may not continue to call Brittany a grave robber because grave robbing has a very specific connotation, which means digging up and stealing from corpses. And what Brittany is doing is slightly different, with an emphasis on slightly. slightly. Brittany, though I don't think it was wise for your friend Reg to introduce into a group of people who are obviously unbalanced to begin with the accusation that you are a grave robber, there is nonetheless the reality of the situation. You are robbing from graves. That I think would be a little bit more accurate to say. You were taking things that

did not belong to you, and you were doing so without permission. And while your intentions were also good and positive-seeming, there was no reason, as Jesse Thorne pointed out, that you couldn't have gone to the cemetery or to the people who had donated those trees and say, this is what I would like to do. Almost certainly, they would say yes. Just because you had a good and wonderful idea, just because you had a good, beautiful, and ecologically sustainable idea does not mean that you are above the law. Vigilantism is not something that is supported here in the court of Judge John Hodgman. I order you to, A, do not start sending out pictures of trees that you took from gravesides to people who left them there three years ago.

You are only opening up an entire can of worms that you will not like to. Just let these bodies lie at this point. In terms of going forward, I order you to not take anything else from a grave without express permission of the cemetery or the people who have left it there, no matter what a sign says. You know this, Brittany, come on. You know, the reality is Reg wasn't such a great friend to you in this particular situation, and I have sympathy for you, but a stopped cod is right twice a day. And in this case, he knew that you were doing something that was wrong, and that's all it is, wrong.

Even though it's nice, sometimes you can do nice things that are wrong. That's Batman. Well, at least I'm Batman. Unless you are willing to live as a fugitive taking on the murder of Harvey Dent on your shoulders, then unless you can come out into the light of day and say, here's what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, then you are doing something wrong. You should not do this. Okay? I think it's a worthy project to go forward, but you have to contact the cemetery at the very least. So this is my ruling. I find in favor of Reg,

though I prohibit him from calling you grave robber in the future, I order you to not take things from graves without permission, no matter what a sign says in the future. If you have a good idea, and I think this was a lovely idea, there should be no reason that you should undertake it without getting permission ahead of time. And next time, try to keep the trees maybe under 100 per season, just so that no one commits you.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Brittany, how are you feeling right now? Well, you know, I feel like a scolded child. But yeah, you know, I guess as far as the law is concerned, it's true. I guess I'll know how to proceed in the future if I decide to actually try this again, legitimately. Reg, Brittany, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was really a pleasure to have you.

Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go,

try S T O P P O D C A S T I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, what are you... What are you... What are you doing?

What are you... Oh, hi, Jesse. I was just... Were you doing? What? Oh, hi, Jesse. Were you eating? I was eating a pine tree. I stole it because I was hungry. You can't blame me for that. I mean, good intentions and all that. I need pine trees to chew on to live, or else my teeth get too long and then they burrow into my brain.

Are you a rodent, Judgment? This whole time you were a rodent? Whoa, why are you harassing me in my courtroom? You're creating an air of malice. Do you have a bunch of guns? Are you going to cut off your leg? No, and it is a total coincidence that I recently grew a mustache and shaved my head. Jesse, I got to say, that really put a chill in my bones because for years I've been thinking to

myself, that's going to be the next body modification. There's going to be some kind of pirate phase, some kind of pirate meme, and teenagers are going to not stop at just piercing every part of their body. They're going to be cutting off their legs and rocking decorative peg legs. Wow. It's going to happen, and now I know it is happening.

Once again, I predicted the future. Speaking of predicting the future, a couple weeks on the program, we were talking about the campaign to make Roadrunner by Jonathan Richman or Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers, depending on the version, the recording you're talking about, I think. The official state song of Massachusetts. All right. You know what, Jesse? I'm just going to have to start correcting you right from the start. First of all, Massachusetts is a commonwealth, not a state.

Sorry. Get it right. Sorry. Second of all, on this podcast, I made reference to Roadrunner by singing it. Then listener Tony wrote in to say there are two politicians in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts who are vying to make this the official Commonwealth rock song of Massachusetts, and that it is in a huge battle with Dream On by Aerosmith. I represented my support for Roadrunner, later learning that

Marty Walsh, the Democratic co-sponsor of this bill, the Republican was Senator Bob Hedlund, Commonwealth Senator Bob Hedlund, was in his own death match for mayor with John Connolly of Boston. I wrote them a letter just saying I truly support Roadrunner as the official Commonwealth rock song, because unlike Dream On, it is a rock song. It's not a power ballad. Second of all, Roadrunner is an amazing song about driving through Massachusetts late at night. It is what connects the midnight ride of Paul Revere with the true Freedom Trail experience of every teenager who gets his or her driver's license in Massachusetts. And it is a song that has the words, I am in love with Massachusetts in it. So, and then I said, I will be, I'll be performing as I

did at the Wilbur Theater in Boston on Saturday. And what did occur, Jesse? Can you imagine? I mean, I could hardly imagine. The only thing I could think of that, you know, would be if, that, you know, would be if, like, if one of those guys, even if they, like, acknowledged the fact that you had shouted them out on the program for supporting that bill, I mean, that would be pretty amazing. I certainly did not expect Representative Marty Walsh and Senator Bob Hedlund to write me back saying, can we come to the show? hand Senator Bob Hedlund to write me back saying, can we come to the show? I certainly did not expect Marty Walsh on the eve of the mayoral election to get up on stage and say his first order of business, should he become mayor, would be to make sure that Roadrunner got out of committee

and into the hearts and minds of every member of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And I did not expect that my performance of Roadrunner on that very stage, on ukulele, would so move those members of the audience that the legendary Hodgman bump would occur, pushing Marty Walsh over the edge, over the top, to become Boston's next mayor, the official Roadrunner mayor of the city of Boston in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And yet it all happened, Jesse, just the way I described. Wow. I did not know this was going to happen. I did not intend to endorse a candidate for mayor. All I know is there was one candidate who wanted Roadrunner to be the official song. And that candidate was on stage with me. I mean, that's like that one time when Prince was at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he played

Will My Guitar Gently Weeps and he just dropped the guitar and like all the other famous guitarists were there and they were like, holy cow. And he just left, you know, and everybody was like, wow, Prince. I'm the same as Prince. No, the truth is that I owe it all to listener Tony for bringing it to my attention in the first place. And I owe a debt of gratitude to both Senator Hedlund and now mayor-elect Marty Walsh for being such good sports and coming to the show and having so much fun. Marty Walsh for being such good sports and coming to the show and having so much fun. And of course, I owe it all to Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers for creating such a great song.

Do you want to clear the docket? No, I think we did it. and friends of the show, fresh banana man Jonathan of the southbound Kenbung Plaza on I-95 in Maine spun a truly bone-chilling tale of terror, a H.P. Lovecraftian story of the octobanana that he read into a microphone. And before we go today,

we're going to go ahead and play it. It's scary. I'm sorry we didn't get to do it before Halloween. Check out MaximumFun.org for the photo of the Octobanana that he took. Also go there to submit your case if you'd like to have it heard by me. Just go to MaximumFun.org and you can submit your dispute. And no case too small or large. And remember, the Judge John Hodgman podcast is supported in part by Rick and Morty,

the new Adult Swim animated comedy from Justin Roiland and Dan Harmon of Community. Rick, a sociopathic scientist, drags grandson Morty on dangerous adventures full of robot dogs, alien sex offenders, and rectal smuggling through interdimensional customs. Voiced by Chris Parnell, Sarah Chalk, Spencer Grammer, Justin Roiland, and more celebrities. Rick and Morty, Monday nights at 1030 on Adult Swim. Who was the person who suggested this week's case name, Jesse? That was Paul Rue. Thanks to Paul.

If you want to suggest a case name in the future, just like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. Just search for Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. Just search for Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. You can like John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne while you're liking things on Facebook. I know that a lot of people set aside a little bit of time in their week every week to like things on Facebook. Those are three great things to carve out a little subset of that time in your day that you've already carved out. Yeah. Your five-hour Monday liking session already carved out. Yeah. Your, your, your five hour Monday liking session should include us. Yeah. I mean, and try and do it on the earlier side before your thumbs up thumb

cramps. Mark McConville edits our show. Julia Smith is our producer. We'll talk, we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Stay tuned for the chilling tale of Octobanana. Bye. the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Stay tuned for the chilling tale of Octobanana. Bye. It came out of the night. Deepest, darkest night. The one banana that was left that did not receive your notice. It morphed out of a great rage of jealousy.

It became the worst nightmare of any customer that refused to buy them. Soon it will grow too powerful to be stopped. I saw it creep around the empty banana boxes. It ignored me, the one man who could save it. But it was not interested in being saved. It only hungers for human flesh now. Slowly, with evil intent, it slithers across the floor,

eyeless and hungry. What did I just see? Legends say it comes from an ancient pile of trash. That trash was not burned, merely left to rot. Here comes Octobanenable. Cue woman screaming. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com.

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