Judge John Hodgman - Snack Judgment with Michael Ian Black & Tom Cavanagh

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

It's time to clear the docket and offer some SNACK JUDGMENTS! Who better to offer expertise than the best snackologists in the biz, Michael Ian Black and Tom Cavanagh of MIKE AND TOM EAT SNACKS! Should you pack road trip snacks or go wild at Buc-ee's? What is the right way to eat a Fruit Roll Up? What kind of potato chip was Jesse eating before the recording?Did you know that MIKE AND TOM EAT SNACKS is back with brand new episodes? Find it at matescast.com!San Francisco area litigants, join us LIVE at San Francisco Sketchfest on Sunday, January 18th. Don’t wait - get your tickets now here!That time of the year between the holidays and New Year’s is the perfect time to bust out your coziest goth gear - and subtly signal to your family, via hat, whether they are RIGHT or WRONG. Get all our merch, plus the smell of Pure Justice, at our store here: maxfunstore.com/collections/judge-john-hodgmanBecome a member to unlock special bonus episodes, exclusive merch, and more by joining us at maximumfun.org/join. Have a dispute that you can’t settle? No case is too small for the honorable Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn! Submit your cases directly to the court at maximumfun.org/jjho. Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Join at $5 a month at maximumfun.org/join!

Recording in progress. Jesse, what were you eating? What was your snack? Yeah, what were you eating? I was eating some potato chips. You can't see. You don't, no, it doesn't stop. What are you talking about?

This is pink. Some potato chips. We need brand. Saving it for the air. Hey, you know what? We're recording. This is definitely going to be how we open the show. Because guess what?

At the end of the episode, we're all going to take a guess as to what kind of potato chips Jesse was eating. Whoever gets closest wins a brand new Lisa Mattress. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff, Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket. And with me, as always, is Judge John Hodgman. Here I am, as always.

I'm Judge John Hodgman. And when we are recording this, I don't know when you are, but when we are recording this, it is between Thanksgiving, worst holiday on earth. And the winter holidays, Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's Eve, Kwanza, Saturnalia, all of the wonderful winter solstice holidays that matter. We're leaving Thanksgiving in the dust where it belongs. But it means it's the holiday season.

I can tell our two guests are upset. I love to stir controversy. It's a controversial podcast, right, Jesse? Indeed. Is it? We touch on all the hot button issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They call us in the podcast.

The podcasting magazines, the two hottest button pushers in podcasting, Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman, were just stirring the feces pot with our hot, hot takes. We'll discuss Thanksgiving in a moment, I suppose. But the point is, holiday season, we're bombarded with snacks. Wouldn't you say, Jesse, bombarded? It's like the London Blitz, but with snacks. That's right. We have to cover up the headlights on our cars or else people are going to just throw, just. throw tins of popcorn at us or various homemade treats that you get around this time of year.

Dresden would have been a lot happier if that was the case. Our guests on the program, podcasters, actors, two of the world's preeminent snackologists. They co-host the podcast, Mike and Tom eat snacks, Michael Ian Black and Tom Cavanaugh. Michael Tom, welcome to Judge John Hodgman. It's an honor and a pleasure to be in chambers. with the famous Judge John Hodgman and his trustee bailiff, Jesse. And I hate, hate that we're starting off our appearance on this podcast with an argument. But Thanksgiving is the worst holiday?

The hell is the matter with you. Tom, back me up on this. I second your motion. It's the best. It's literally the best holiday. Can I just say I'm glad we got objection overruled out in the first 30 seconds because that's low-hanging fruit. and we're professionals. I also like Judge John Hodgman

that you came out of the gate going like my opinion is my opinion and here it is, masses. I like the fact that you're stirring a feces pot. Is there social media? If there is social media, it's a flame. Look, I like to get the blood pumping. I like to get the conversational juices simmering

as though I'm making a big pot of turkey stock to make some delicious gravy. I love gravy. But here's the thing. I don't like Thanksgiving. I've said it before in this podcast. I'll say it again. These reasons. It's a bunch of national mythologizing that is questionable at best. I don't care about it. Two, it comes too close to the better holidays. And I don't need, I don't need, it's a great way to ruin a great long weekend. You know what I mean, with a bunch of chores. Your Honor. I mean, I don't know if we go through this point by point. I don't know what we do to address this because this podcast is only going to be so long. And I know it's not going to be primarily focused on Thanksgiving. So I will just. begin and ends with the following retort.

You're so wrong, it's criminal, you f***. Wow. I was trying to run rings around. I was looking forward to trying to run rings around you logically. But it's like when you knock wolf blitz or out with a punch to the throat, leave it there. Am I right? That's on our podcast in case you want to visit our podcast. Yeah, your podcast is called Mike and Tom eat snacks, also known as

mates. That is the initialism for it. M-A-T-E-S. And here's the thing. In the court of Judge John Hodgman, long-settled law, people like what they like. If you like Thanksgiving, great. If you love Thanksgiving, terrific for you. It's all about taste, as is your podcast. Michael or Tom, tell me a little bit about your podcast. You decide who. A long time ago. No, Michael. The two of you work. together in the wonderful television program. Ed? Oh, you know about that. Is that how you, of course. That is how we, that, that is how we, uh, made each other's acquaintance on the

moderately lived NBC. Would you call it a dromody or a com, a comma? It's more, it was a romantic comedy. It's a comic. I don't reckon it matters at this point. I suppose not. Since, since, since you can't watch it anywhere and never will be able to. I tried to rewatch Ed recently because I had enjoyed it so much and discovered very hard to find. I'm sorry to say. And Michael, you told me because of music rights, you went too many times to the smash mouth well, I believe. I think it was, yes, it was exactly exactly. And who wouldn't? Hey now, John. Hey now. Yeah, get your game on. Yeah, we met on Ed. I played the titular character, Ed. Tom was a, a supporting character. but, but he did a great, he did a great job as the Bowling Alley scruff.

Listen, this is a wonderful podcast. I've been listening to it for years. I enjoy you both so much. It's one of the great hang podcasts. It's been away for a while. It's just come back. You have a new network, correct? Yes.

Realm is their name. Okay. Is that the name or did you just think of that? That's good. I'm hoping that's the name of it. and laughs are the coin of that realm. Very good. I like it.

Laughs and snacks, you guys get together, you chat for a while, you make each other happy and you eat some snacks. Is that correct? We also rate the snack just so that listeners or viewers, and we don't know which they are, receive well articulated, reasoned snack advice. So they're not wasting their precious time. and money on garbage snacks.

Right. And what is the rating, what is the ranking system? One to ten. It's one to ten. Golf snackers or what? No, it's just, it's just one to ten. It's a numerical system. You can get half points.

And sometimes, sometimes the snack escapes the bounds of the per system. For example. Yeah, you got to give me, you got, you got to give me an example. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't raise the topic if I wasn't going to give an example, John. It's too important. We once, we, I'll give you a positive and a negative. The negative one was we, we once rated Kroger's very cherry,

it was like jelly belly, cherry pudding. And I think we rated it as poison. Evil. No, evil. Yeah. Entirely possible. But then the positive one was homemade chocolate chip cookies, which had, which exists out. outside of the bounds of the per system because they vary so much in quality and because they're they're so sort of delectable and subjective that they just sort of exist in their

own category. But that was rated. I'll say this. That's very wise. Sorry to interrupt, Judge. But we stole from the Tour de France. And when you exceeded 10, you then are qualified, you qualify as beyond category. Beyond category.

They always say that in creative matters, if you're going to steal, steal from the Tour de France. They do say that. It's very wise because I would venture, like, I, it's known that I do not have a sweet tooth. Don't care for sweets very often. I don't have a sweet tooth. I have an alcohol muller. But I will say that chocolate chip cookies, homemade chocolate chip cookies are always great. And I would say, although they are beyond category, if I had to say, I would say I've never had a, even the worst is.

never lower than a seven of a fresh homemade chocolate chip cookie. I'll say that we have two people in our teleconference as we record this show who have delivered unto me spectacular homemade chocolate chip cookies in Jennifer Marmer, our producer, and Daniel Spear, our video producer. But a gift. Both of them, wonderful bakers who are kind enough to bring cookies into the office at maximum fun, make sure that I get some and John doesn't. And they're both spectacular. I have an important question, and it comes direct from our docket, if I may. Yes, please, please. Think Potential 459, who is a poster on the Mates subreddit, wanted to know what defines a snack from other kinds of foods?

Yeah, that's good. What makes something a snack rather than a meal or a nash or whatever? It's a fantastic question. It's basically pornography, and Michael, you can chip in next. You know a snack when you see it, essentially. Right. Michael, go ahead. That's exactly right.

There are time. Now, look, there are certain foods, and I just had an example of this, that when eaten in conjunction with a meal, you would be like, oh, that belongs with the meal. But then you could eat it earlier in the day, and it could be like, oh, that's a perfectly acceptable snack. It's like, Jesse, we have our physical body, right? But we also have our atheric body. You know, we have a body of light that just surrounds us, that just extends into the universe.

You know that, Jesse. You know that with snacks. You know that, Jesse. You know about your etheric body. So I have a physical body, John, just so you know in an atheric body. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I remember.

And so it's very difficult to say where the physical ends and the atheric begins. Same thing with snacks and meals. It's very difficult. It's subjective. Michael, I appreciate that. Could I asking Tom the same question in hopes that I could get an answer? Sure. Thank you.

What's the difference between a meal and a snack, Tom? I don't want to throw magic. He's exactly right. The pornography answers that... He gave a very important answer. I appreciate that. You like the important answer, but you don't feel like that moves the case forward. Look, I like, I'm a mundane person.

I want, yeah, specificity is the soul of snack definition as far as... I like that. I like the specific... I don't know necessarily that you can specify because there's times when you got a handful of stuff in your pocket is going to be a snack. But that same handful, say you got like a bag of beans, John, right? That bag of beans is your snack. But that beans on a plate are your Thanksgiving dinner.

But that same handful of beans. after a day of trekking from one fairyland location to the next might constitute your only meal of the day. It's all, it's contextual. So much of the time, it's contextual. We don't know. Yes, snacks have an element of mobility to them. But not all snacks are portable. Like, you're not going to stuff your pockets full of guacamole and go strolling about. I take that back. I take it back. I knew as soon as the words came out of my mouth. I can see it. I can see their shifting eyes shift. You're talking about my brand new product,

Pacamoli? Pocket moly. Trademark. Here's something from Anne in Lake Zurich, Illinois. Her dispute with her entire family. She says, when we're on a long drive, I pack a snack bag and a cooler. I don't want to share the snacks with my family

unless they are appropriately excited. If I've done the planning to make sure that we have snacks, I want the people in my car to meet me at my level of enthusiasm. Specifically, in order to share the car snacks, please order my family shout snacks to the tune of LMFAO's shots. Anne, and Lake Zurich wants her family to chant. How does it go, Jesse? Snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks.

Or else she will not give them to her family, her own husband and children. One time I was in an airport and I saw this ridiculous man. I thought, who does this guy think he is? The guy from LMFAO. And I looked it up there was the guy from LMFAO. Oh, that's great. It was in a whole outfit and the whole thing. nine yards just looking like a cartoon character from a TV commercial.

Now, Mike and Tom, I did a little background investigation to get some more detail here that may or may not help you in determining whether... Oh, I have already reached my verdict. I suspect Tom's reached his verdict as well. Absolutely. She lost the case from the first sentence. The first sentence being, when we are on a long drive, I pack a snack bag in a cooler. Yes, she lost the case with that sentence.

When you are on a long car ride, you do not prepack snacks in a cooler. You stop at the gas station and you go crazy. That's the way you snack on a road trip. The idea that you're going to like pre-plan snacks when you have such a great opportunity on this long road trip to be spontaneous with your snacking, to enter. some buckies, you're going to rob your flesh and blood of that opportunity, that spontaneity? Honestly, the snacks chant, the snacks chant is great. And yes, that should be de rigueur in this family. There should be a snacks chant. Well, there's a couple things about this. You know,

it is your right as you snack how you snack. And it is your right to pack a cooler. Are you then unable, if the trip is long enough, you're going to be able to go to Buckees and, you know, go wild should you want to. Also, maybe if you live in Lake Zurich, Illinois, go to the real Lake Zurich. That's just me. But the other side of things here is also that you snack how you snack. You could pack the cooler. Hear me out, Magic, because you're shaking your head.

I'm here. You're shaking your head. Oh, no, I'm nodding, Tom. Let the record show. For those of you who are watching on our YouTube channel, Michael is shaking his head. I'm nodding.

And Jesse's waggling his fingers imagining imaginary bugles on top of them. The snacking is a very personal thing, but there are certain rules. One is, you definitely do want to go walk the snack aisle of life. That's the freedom of a road trip. You want to create the romanticism

with that freedom. You do want to do that. If you're a different person than Magic and I, you might pack a cooler, you might just do it your way. Now you're in the car and you're trying to address the question,

And part of it is this, in my circle, you want my snacks and I'm at the wheel, yeah, you're going to do your chant. You're going to do whatever you want if you want the snack. If I'm at the wheel, I'm not at the wheel and I want a snack. You've got to feed the driver. If you're driving, you shouldn't be forced to chant. I feel like to address this specific question, one thing that was left out was whether the person writing in was behind, was behind the, wheel, or if they're in the backseat going hoarding snacks, it's a whole different thing.

On the other hand, if you have the snacks, they're your rules. And so I sort of do agree that, like, look, if what you need is this, their, their, their, your snack rules are your snack rules. Well, Tom, I did do some background investigations for you, and I can tell you this. The snacks in question are typically pub pretzels, Twizzlers, sparkling ice water for the kids. Oh, kids. And a Coke for the driver who is her husband. I don't like any of this.

I don't like any, any part of this. And the reason that she's packing the snacks is that they're driving, they're typically driving back from a concert like the Abbott Brothers concert at Summerfest in Milwaukee or a football game at UW Madison. They're on a long drive home. They're tired. She's trying to keep the energy up rather than, so that they can get home happily, I guess, and fed. what is going to what is going to what is going to what is going to peak the kids excitement energy and intrigue more

the chant of snacks snacks snacks snacks knowing that at the end of that you're going to get a handful of pub pretzels you might get twizzlers you might the promise of hey guys there's a buckies up ahead do you want to stop and go nuts and the and the answer to that is that It's going to be, yes, yes, mom, yes, mommy. And we love you more because of it. I'll say, I'll say this. This is going to be my final ruling. I'm going to weigh in.

I actually ruled against Anne in the New York Times column, Judge John Hodgman, very recently. So I'm glad to get another bite at the pub pretzel here to say, once again, Anne, with great respect, you're a wonderful weird mom, but you're wrong. Don't force fun on your family when they're just trying to relax after a long, big concert or football game, they're probably tired. I question how much the kids really wanted to go see the avid brothers. I'll be honest. I'm not sure the kids were that psyched about it.

They wanted to go see the hold steady. Yeah, they want to see the hold steady. You know, Mike and Tom, I want to ask you another question about road trip snacks, but I believe we're going to take a little break. Is that right, Jesse Thorne? Indeed, we're going to talk about who supports this program. We'll be back with more on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm bailiff, Jesse Thorne. We're clearing the docket. We've got Michael Ian Black and Tom Kavanaugh with us. Here is a case from Shelby in Jefferson, Indiana. What is the correct way to eat a fruit roll-up? Now, you'd think the question would answer to end there, but we've got two more paragraphs to go. Oh, I like to unwrap the roll-up, wad it up, and take a big bite. It's the easiest and most satisfying way, but all my coworkers, except for Gwen, say that I'm eating

my fruit roll up like a barbarian. And by the way, I think Gwen is just being nice. Yeah. Gwen thinks you're a barbaric. I mean, you've got to hand it to Gwen. She's a nice lady. My colleagues, including my husband, unroll and take bites from left to right. I want everyone at work to admit I eat fruit roll-ups correctly. I also want to watch. All of them eat wadded up fruit roll-ups at our next staff meeting. So wait a minute. How would you, it's been a long time since I've interrogated a fruit roll-up. I find them to be gross and sweet, two things I don't like.

But my memory is they are rolled up and you unroll them. Mike, Tom, what am I misremembering here? You're not misremembering anything. Is that correct? They are 100%. they're rolled up and you can kind of stickily unwrap them i i'm on a record as saying i like a i like a chewy kind of fruity uh chewy fruit based uh snack very much i like a certain consistency um and i uh i find it interesting that in addition to it sounds like working with her husband she's also

bringing up she's on she's opening the the can of worms and uh crossing the street to throw some salvos. It just seems to me that what she's doing is she's unrolling the roll-up only to wad it back up again, and wouldn't that be a choking hazard at that point, Michael Ian Black? What do you say, Magic? It could be, although the fruit roll-up is water-soluble. So if it gets stuck in your throat over time, it will dissolve. Will there be enough time before you choke to death?

I don't know. And frankly, I don't care. Just suck on a hose, and you're all set. thank you jesse just suck on a hose and you're all set words of wisdom right i think the problem in this scenario if i had to identify one problem it's gwen i feel like we're going two for two on gwen and once again writing and going wait a minute yeah gwen i feel like i'm hosted by my own petard again she's sabotaging not only who's who's the author what's her name shelby shelby jefferson indiana she's not

only sabotaging Shelby. She's also sabotaging the entire office. And I don't know if this is a weird power move on her part. I don't know if she's trying to pit one faction against the other. You don't think so? I don't know if it's a weird. I don't know necessarily it's a weird power move. I think it's more, I think there's a passivity here that comes out in the in the in the detail that she's like it's you're doing fine. You're doing fine. Yeah, exactly. But it's a but everybody else in the office knows that Gwen is just placating Shelby. Everybody knows that. Gwen, we don't know what the power dynamics are here, but it sounds like Gwen is sucking up to the boss. I don't know. I think, let's say it's a bank, for example. I think they could both be

tellers, you know, and Gwen's looking over at Shelby's till as Shelby is wadding up a fruit roll-up to the size of a softball and cramming it into her gob. And she's going, oh, you're That's right, Shelby. You're doing great. And everybody else, all the other tellers are looking over like, what are you doing, Gwen? What are you doing? You're encouraging this behavior. They're thinking of themselves that we don't even have hose access. Unless it's a landscaping service, we don't know. We don't know. The point is, yes, Shelby, you have the freedom to eat the fruit roll up in whatever way you desire. People snack how they snack. Are you eating it in the worst possible way? Yes, you are. Mike and Tom, Tom, you mentioned that you like a gummy fruit situation. Tom mentioned it. I did not offer my opinion one way or the other to this point. Oh, excuse me, did I say Michael?

You said Mike and Tom, you mentioned that you favor. He didn't say he favored. He just says he likes it. He didn't say he favors it. Yeah, those are very different things, Judge. Very different things. What is you? Tom, will you ask your attorney to stand down for a second?

When did you pass the bar? That's all I'm asking. I just want to know when you pass the bar. Tom, you like fruit gunk. What's your favorite form factor for fruit gunk? So Michael and I had a thing, a judge that we call basically a fruit, a mouth, a mouthfeel. A mouth feel. Yeah, mouthfeel.

So, you know, some people like something that just will slide down the throat. Some people will like something that's like crunchy. I like something that's like, you got to work to chew it, right? And so you just brought up welchis. Here's a perfect example. I have to choose between, I like welchis and I like, Nibs. I have to choose between Welch's and Nibs, I'm going to opt for the nibs, because the nibs give me the best workout for your jaw. Yeah, I like it. So I like that. They offer some resistance.

Yeah, for me personally. You don't like a snack that just surrenders. Yeah. Personally, I do. Yeah. How do you feel about jerky? Well, I mean, what brand? This is the thing I find with your podcast is like, you guys are not branding at all. We've got Jesse, Jesse Thorne opening up. The bailiff is like, I'm eating potato chips. We're like, what kind of potato? I'm not afraid to mention brands, and I want to know from either of you, what's your top brand of jerky? I like a chewy jerky jerky as opposed to a plasticy jerky. There was a Jack Link's jerky brand that was out for a while that was so chewy and salty.

It was the greatest food I'd ever had, and they discontinued it, I think, out of spite for me. What's your favorite brand of jerky? I don't have a favorite brand. Here's me, Judge. and I'll tell you why. Michael tells, go to the Buckees, go to the gas station, and what you may have found, I don't know how observational you both are about this,

but where there was once like a few slim jams, a few, now you go to the gas station and it's a wall. Or you're at the airport. You know, you're at the Hudson's News. You're like, and it's a wall of, like, in other words, jerky has been outed and people are into it. And I sit there and I'm like, I'm going to try them all. Jerky is one of those peculiar snacks where corporate America hasn't quite cornered the market on jerky.

So, yeah, you got your jacklings and you got your whatever other brands there. I don't even know. But then you also have small batch. Oh, Bertos. Sure. Sure, absolutely. Right. But then I feel like the best jerky you're going to find is.

the kind of artisanal small batch that you're going to roll up to some gas station somewhere in Arkansas and they're going to have like a like a loose site display case of jerky, probably squirrel jerky. We don't even know. We don't care. All we know is it's the most delicious thing we've ever eaten. Or you can or sometimes it's just a plastic tub full of loose jerky. Yeah. You just reach in. Jesse Thorne, you got another letter for us here. Indeed. Here's something from Jenny in Vancouver, British Columbia. She has has a snack system. Tom, that's in Canada. Tom, that's in Canada. Vancouver is a coniferous jewel of a city for those who haven't been for your listeners.

Coniferous jewel of a city, yes. Indeed. I was just about to say that, Tom. I believe cheese snacks have seasons when they taste the best. Cheetos cheese puffs and all puff varietals are summer cheeses. They taste best in warm weather. Hawkins cheeses and crunch varietals taste best in cold weather. When it's winter, Hawkins Cheeses are the best crunchy cheese snack. My fiancé agrees that puffs are summer, but thinks Hawkins are inedible. He prefers old Dutch crunchies in the winter. He's wrong. Those are sour and gross. Who's right? Well, in a way, we're all a bunch of old Dutch crunchies. So what do you think? This is such a Canadian question. I mean, I've never.

I've never heard of Hawkins. What about Jesse, Jesse and John? Do you know Hawkins? I've never heard of Hawkins or Old Dutch Crunchies. You're talking about Hawkins Crunchies? Oh. Hawkins was originally produced in Chicago until the mid-50s when the factory burned down and then they relocated to Belleville, Ontario, Belleville, Ontario, where they are produced

even now. Mike Nelson of the Rift Tracks gang once got me into Hawkins at an after party at San Francisco Sketchfest. I mean, I was snorting them. They were great. It was an incredible party. Belleville situated between the Kingston and Toronto on the 40-40-1. Did you say, Michael, did you ask Judge John Hodgman if it was superior to Cheeto for him?

Not superior, just how does it compare in terms of, is it the Canadian equivalent of a Cheeto? I can offer that if you would like to hear. I would I'd love to hear what Tom has to say about so um the hawkin is a is a little denser um is a is a little larger than your typical you're talking chito crunchy now obviously and um and they have added to the the musk of the cheese and so when you eat a hawkin you're getting a a thicker denser I won't say more cheesy, but there's more to consume. Can I reflect back what I think I'm hearing? It sounds like on the cheetah, there's a coating. With the hawk in your sound, it sounds like the cheese sort of goes all the way through. It's a deep penetration of cheese.

And I think that I think Tom Kavanaugh really put it well when he mentioned the musk of the cheese flavor, because it is an intense and funky depth of flavor that no Cheeto has ever rivaled in my. it was almost too much. And I'll tell you what, when I woke up the next morning at SketchFest with my face covered in Hawkins cheese dust, that was a bad hangover for me. Great night, bad hangover. I thought it was an interesting query, the seasonality of the puffed corn cheese snack, because I can see how a puffed Cheeto might feel a little bit more apropos in warmer weather, a little airier, a little lighter, whereas the denser, as you say, muskier snack, yeah, you can see how that might be more of a hibernating snack, more of an autumnal or a winter.

Would I want to draw a hard and fast rule around it? No, of course not. I'm a puffy Cheetos guy myself, and I tend to be in the minority. I enjoy them better than the crunchies. And I, maybe that's just because I'm a summertime guy. I'm more of a crunch, man. You're a crunchy, yeah. I get it. And by the way, old Dutch crunchies, it's interesting that Jenny should point out that

her fiance thinks they're sour and gross, because they are made in northern Minnesota in the style of Canadian Hawkins. So it's, again, that sour, gross, extra flavor. It's kind of its own thing. And I do have to correct myself and I apologize, Tom. While Hawkins were invented in Chicago, it was their factory in Tweed, Ontario that burned down before they moved to wonderful Belleville, Ontario, located right there on the mouth of the Moira River and on the Bay of Quinte. Oh, by the way, I think I forgot to rule finally on Shelby and her fruit roll-up wad, which is Shelby, you're a barbarian. Not because you can't enjoy fruit roll-ups, however you want to do it, but it's not safe to wad them up if you don't have a hose at the ready. And even then,

arguably, it's not safe. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll have more snack chat with Mike and Tom. Judge John Hodgman, we are taking a quick break from the docket. We are, of course, headed to San Francisco Sketchfest in January. If you're in the Bay Area or Northern California, I hope we will see you there. Tickets available at maximum fun.org slash events. Up on Bullseye right now, my public radio program, you can find our annual best stand-up of the year special. So if you love

stand-up comedy, we listen to so many stand-up albums to put that together. It's always our most popular episode of the year, probably because I'm on it the least. The least me. No. It's a great show. You're going to have so many,

so many great albums. And as you listen to this, the holiday season is ending. And you know what that means, John. Deep discounts on treasures in the Put This On Shop. I just made a code. called January justice. If you use the code January justice between Christmas and the end of January, 2026, you will get 25% off anything in the entire store, including probably you,

look, if you're a gold speculator, you might be able to buy gold for less than what it's worth in the store. I don't know, 25% off is a lot. Make a fortune hoarding gold at put this on shop.com. Put this on shop.com is where to go. And that code is January justice, January justice, 25% off anything. Anything we sell. Hey, I'll mention it later on in this recording, but I'm going to just say it right now as well. I have a substack, hodgeman.substack.com. It's a great thing to subscribe to for free, absolutely free. If you just want a letter for me now and then telling you what I'm up to, you'll get ticket links, for example, to our San Francisco Sketchfest show, reminders that we need your disputes for that show, and you should submit them at maximum

fun.org slash JJHO, but you won't need a reminder because you'll have a little link to click right there. And up in the secret room, I'm reading Moby Dick, the novel out loud in a terrible main accent, chapter by chapter. And I'll tell you what, each one of those chapters is a world into itself. You don't need to read it from the beginning. You can just join us. It's a lot of fun. And you can go there if you want hodgeman.substack.com or give it as a gift for a friend. John, I also want to mention for the 25th anniversary of Bullseye, I went on some of the best and funniest podcasts out there. So if you're interested in Jesse Thorne. I'm on a member's only episode of Never Not Funny. I went on The Do Boys with our pals

the doughboys and talked about Costco. Yeah, a great episode. I went on Hollywood Handbook, one of the funniest shows in existence. I went on our friend Open Mike Eagles podcast to talk about the media business. I went on On the Media. One of my favorite public radio programs of all time with our friend in your park slope neighbor, Brook Gladstone. Just passed her on the F-Train platform the other day. I had the best time going on all these podcasts. I hope that you will go take a listen to them. I even got to go on the flop house.

You know, John, the last time I was on the flop house was, I don't know, five years ago or something like that. I went back on the flop house, accidentally recommended the same movie at the same end of the show. Had two shots at it, recommended the same movie both times. Anyway, let's go for the hat trick. What's the movie? A thousand clowns.

A thousand clowns is the movie that I recommended. One of the greatest movies ever of all time, my favorite movie. You can get it on Blue Way or you can just watch it on a popular video streaming website. The most popular of all of them. F it, I'll say it. It's YouTube. Just type it into YouTube. You'll find it there.

Okay. You'll find it there. Let's get back to the show. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket with the hosts of the podcast, Mike and Tom Eat Snacks, Michael Ian Black and Tom Kavanaugh. Here is a case from the fear of missing out on the Mates subreddit. When my husband opens any snack container with an outer seal, he always leaves the seal partially attached.

So, for example, when he opens a tube of bringles, he peels the foil-backed paper on top of the cans 75% of the way. then he folds it back into place under the plastic lid. This is creating an unnecessary snacking impediment. It's cruel and unusual punishment. Judge Hodgman, please make him stop. Before I throw to you, Mike and Tom, this is Michael Ian Black and Thomas Kavanaugh of Michael and Tom eat snacks. I got to say this one speaks to my heart.

I'm not an active person. Anyone who looks at me knows. Not, I'm a sedentary person by, by nature. Don't bear a lot of scars from exercise or activity of any kind. But for a long time, my only scar was right here on the side of my hand when, as a youth, I reached a little too vigorously into a can of Pringles and scratched up the side of my hand on the Pringle's can. That's a true story. Got $25 million out of the Pringle's company as a settlement.

That's why I never have to work again. But that part isn't true. But how do you feel about this leaving the foil half on the Pringles can? I have to say that the husband seems to have a shaky grasp of physics. Go on. So those those coverings are there to seal in, to seal in freshness. And once you open it and the air gets in there, they're fun. is over. It's defunct. It's not doing it anymore. And so to just kind of, it'd be kind

of like if you, this is a bad example. I was going to say like if you toilet seat up, toilet seat down, toilet seat down, toilet seat up with every wipe. Like you're such a bad analogy. Toilet seat up. No, I think I'm loving it. Sure, sure. Toilet seat up, toilet seat down with every wipe. Yeah. wholeheartedly concur with your analysis. I would add that the husband may be laboring under the misapprehension that the foil is there to do anything really substantive. It's not.

Lock in flavor, sure. Did they vacuum out all the air in the Pringles cylinder before shipping it out? I don't know. I suspect not. I think, and this is just a pet peeve I have of packaging in general. There's too much packaging. We don't need that foil thing at all. What I think happened is when the Tylenol company started getting, was poisoned back in the 70s and 80s, suddenly everything had safety foils and safety plastic rings that you had to detach. I think Pringles is probably guilty of that to some extent. I will say that the, is it a husband or fiancé,

whichever he is. Husband. Husband is robbing himself of the joy of peeling off the entirety of the foil protectant, particularly on the Pringles, where they've done a great job with their adhesive technology at Pringles because that foil thing is on their, with exactly the right amount of force,

that there's a certain amount of torque. You have to inject, you know, to get that thing off. Now I'm going into my ethereal body. Is that what it's called? Therick. My ethereal, my atheric body. I'm glad. Trying to travel back in time to when I got my Pringlescan scar

because my memory is. This is a true story. I had a scar right here for years. It seems to have disappeared. Now may I can just barely see it. But when I got that Pringles can scar, I believe my memory is. And I'm going to ask the listeners to verify this if they remember or if you remember. But back then in the ancient times, there wasn't foil.

It was a pop top like a can of tuna fish or, you know what I mean? It had like a real tab and pulls it off. Wilson tennis ball. It was like, yeah, it was like if you were snacking on tennis balls, which we all want to do. I mean, those things. When you open up, and I'm not a sports person, but when you open up a vacuum-packed tube of tennis balls, they seem delicious to me. That's why I think Pringles were so enticing. That's also why Shelby won't stop crumpling up her fruit roll-ups into the, she probably has a tennis background.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, absolutely. Do you, do I, does anybody remember the metal pop top? That's, once you pop, you can't stop. That's where that comes from, isn't it? I don't know. Let me know at Maximumfund.org slash JJHO if you remember that. In the meantime, I'm going to go ahead and rule on the fear of missing outs case here from

the mates subreddit, by the way, that, yeah, the dude is not, he may be laboring under the delusion that the foil is doing something, but I don't think he's doing so much laboring as he's doing lazying. I think he's just doing lazy to pull that thing off and throw it away. So stop being such a belayzy. Hey, by the way, you have a very wonderful act of subreddit there. And on that subreddit, Sammy Stanette has some very strong opinions about how Kit Katz should be eaten. Kit Katz, according to Sammy, must snap apart at, you have to snap apart the fingers, as they call them.

If you take a bite right into the Kit Kat like it's just a sandwich, like a sandwich, you're a monster. What do you think? That's correct. You're a monster. That's what you do. I don't think there's any argument here I've never known if I've known of anybody who did that I've never done that have you never done that

I would say to that person give me a break okay all right I see what you're saying to the person eating the Kit Kat like a sandwich give me a break or you're saying to Sammy give me a break I'm saying to that no the person that's eating a Kit Kat like a sandwich I'm saying give me a break break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar

but is it a bar? No but you're exactly I mean Sammy listen Sammy Sammy, I know you're, I know you're peeved. It sounds like you're a little bit more than peeved on this issue. You have the right to be. But here's, do yourself a favor, Sammy. Take a step forward and understand that you're in the majority.

And monsters can snack to. And you just got to let a monster be a monster. If they want to wad it up, that's what they're going to do, right? And so you don't have to let that deteriorate and take away and siphon off your joy from the, you eat the cat, the proper way. Good for you. Yeah, I would even argue that unlike wadding up the fruit roll-up, which is dangerous, eating a Kit-Kat the wrong way, I acknowledge it's the wrong way, Sammy. But it sounds like a transgressive thrill to me.

And as someone who enjoys a Kit-Kat from time to time, I'm going to go buy a Kit-Kat bar this afternoon and eat it that way. Well, we have a very fun subreddit of our own, the maximum fun subreddit. and we have a letter from Little Sad Rufus. Jesse, you want to read this letter from Little Sad Rufus in the U.K.? When I get everything popcorn at the cinema, I think a small number of jelly beans makes for a perfect topping. My daughter says the texture is too great a contrast. We're aligned on everything else when it comes to everything popcorn,

pretzels, chocolate bits, honeycomb, marshmallows, and so on. It would be nice if we could find a common ground here. Please help. You have a common ground. You just listed all the common ground you have. Marshallows. Chocolate chips. Precipsle nuggets or whatever, pub pretzel.

I don't know. Fruit roll. I don't know. I don't know what, whatever it is. The one point. Everything popcorn, by the way, is something you can order in a UK cinema. Apparently so. Which is popcorn topped with other stuff.

Look, Rufus. look mate it's grand you're doing great you're doing great look have it have at it mate but listen

your mouthfeel is your mouthfeel right it's not your daughters isn't it no it's not is it it's not really so rufus

you'll be you be you mate wait a minute where did Tom go and how did Terrence stamp get into our podcast he'd be much more proper I don't like it yeah I was thinking

of some I was thinking it was Don Cheadle for Motions 11 Yeah, there we go. Trouble! So, speaking of trouble, I've never mixed anything in my popcorn besides butter and salt. What do you mix in to your popcorn? Milk, duds, and popcorn.

Milk, duds, and popcorn? And do the duds get melty at all? I do the, I do this sort of like the double, the double insert. we went from deep cheese penetration to double insert of popcorn and milk duds. Is that where you cut a hole in the bottom of the popcorn and never mind? That's diner. We were thinking of the same reference. So Michael Ian Black, do you ever add anything to the popcorn?

I don't typically. But you throw some M&Ms in there, you know? You get hot popcorn, throw some M&M. in there sort of toss it around about a little. That's a fine snack. It's a fine snack. You enjoy that? Yes.

I mean, everyone likes what they like. You're both wrong, but that's fine. I'd just eat chicken tenders. That would be better. Popcorn's good, but... And then you could also have popcorn chicken, as you know. That's a good point. That's what I was thinking of, I suppose.

That's a good point. I am not someone that will mix things into my popcorn at the movie theater. I would love to just, when I'm in the movie theater, I'm eating popcorn and I'm wishing I had a cherry Coke because a cherry Coke at the movie theater is the greatest pleasure of the movie theater, but it's not available to me because the caffeine is a migraine trigger for me. So it's just a cruel taunt when I see that fountain cherry Coke available for me at the movie theater. I think at home, my kids would yell at me if I put anything besides popcorn on, besides butter on the popcorn. popcorn. As you know, John, I make the popcorn at home myself. I make it without any unnecessary gadgets. I don't need extra gadgets in my kitchen. You don't use a whirly pop. I don't need one. You're just in there with the skillet? I'm in there with a pan. Yeah, or a, yeah. Yeah. And I'm not using

oil. I'm using ghee, clarified butter. I usually use ghee. Okay. Oh, boy. It's turning into a real America's test kitchen segment here. I know. Well, I use the America's test kitchen method by starting with three kernels. Then when the three kernels pop, I add the rest of my popcorn, take it off the heat for 30 seconds. Put it back on the heat. Comes out perfect every time. I will say that if I have my...

You find the best pan for making popcorn is a traditional French saucier, ideally with a copper core. otherwise, don't make it. I, given my druthers, would like to eat Parmesan cheese popcorn. I would like to eat ranch powder popcorn. These are just things that are available in my house right now. I got ranch powder in my house at any given time. I would like, you know what? If I was hanging out with some hip peas, I'd be willing to eat nutritional yeast.

on my popcorn. It's pretty good. That's a David Rees classic nutritional yeast on the popcorn. I love pushing it savory, for sure. Go on. Those are just three examples of great alternate popcorns that I would eat if my children weren't autistic. I'll tell you

something that happened recently in my house, John. Yeah. One of my children will only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches when they're cut crosswise diagonally into triangles. One will only eat peanut butter

and jelly sandwiches when they're cut halfway through into rectangles. Yep. I just learned that my youngest child will yell at me if I cut his peanut butter and jelly sandwich at all. Then we'll refuse to eat it.

We'll wait till mom comes home to eat anything out of spite towards me for slicing the sandwich. That's what's happening in my house. I really, really, really like that, Jesse. I just, you know, I love, I love child preference. You know, that they, this is, what are we doing? Diagonal, what are we doing?

Come on over to my house because we got preference for days. We got nothing but preference. God forbid anyone should share one preference. That's great stuff. It really is great stuff. Heaven forfend. Um, if I may, your honor, if I may interject, just briefly, you may, for the listeners to this podcast, um, I, I sometimes will pop popcorn in a saucy pan as recommended, but then it occurred to me one day as I put the, the metal lid on. You know, it would be so much more fun. Yeah. Put a glass lid on here. Then you could watch the individual kernels explode. Brother, I did that. I did that. It changed the whole game for me. I want to clarify that. I'm using more of a pot.

I'm using a pot, not a pan. I said a pan, but I'm actually using a pot. I just want to be clear. I'm using the America's test kitchen method that involves a pot, not a pan. Okay. I'm sure they do a great job. We're a whirly pop family. I'll tell you what, everything popcorn, little sad Rufus on the Maxone subreddit.

In my family, this does not come up because my wife, who is a whole human being in our own right, and I, we're empty nesters now. We go to a lot of movies together. we just saw a sentimental value, which is a terrific film. And one thing that has become made even more clear than ever is that no popcorn will be shared with my wife, who's a whole human being in her own,

will not share a single kernel. She would rather have a whole bucket to herself and leave it two thirds full and throw it away than let me have a piece of popcorn from her bucket. Otherwise, share and share alike in our marriage, for the most part. That is one place where the line is drawn. And if you like, what is it you want to put on your, oh, jelly beans.

Okay, whatever, a little sad, Rufus. If you want to put jelly babies on your popcorn at the cinema or whatever. Jelly babies. That's fine, but I don't want to have, but you don't have to share, you don't have to have common ground with your daughter. You can have a functional relationship where you hoard your own popcorn to yourself. My wife was a whole human being in her own right has proved this to me. And if you want to go savory, I'm thinking, now I'm going to put it some steakums in my popcorn.

But Michael Ian Black, you seem to want to react to what I was just saying. My wife also refuses to share food of any kind. Yeah. In the past, it has been a bone of contention in our marriage. It's like she grew up during the potato family. And it has been a problem because she has no problem taking food from me. None. But if I try to take some from her, suddenly it's an argument.

I don't care for it. Now I'm going to have popcorn for dinner. What, John, what, Judge, what's the popcorn? Is this only, is this, is this, is this, is this venue specific? Is this, this only happens the non-sharing of the popcorn at a cinema? No, I mean. As roof is it or on your couch? You can't.

At home on the couch. Yeah, well, maybe she'll make herself a separate bowl, but I don't know what's going on at the cinema. Okay. She will not share a vessel of popcorn. But she is a human in her own right. She is, and, you know, people like what they like. And, you know, I suspect that I'm an only child. She's a middle child.

I suspect that there was a lot of pilfering of snacks in her life that I never had to put up with. I mean, when I was morally wounding my husband. my hand on a tube of Pringles. You think I was sharing those? No, I was an only child. They were all for me. I didn't have to rush into that tube. Tom and Mike, my stepmother is from Northern Ireland, from Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Jesse's really offended now. Grew up in a single-parent household with a lot of siblings. And they had meat once a week. Once a week, they would get meat and they would get a rasher of bacon, you know, Irish-style bacon. And one time Catherine, my stepmother's sister, tried to take my stepmother Bernie's bacon, and Bernie stabbed her through the hand with a fork. That's a true story that's about food scarcity and hand injuries. and a nice historical allusion to the troubles

which I appreciated very much whereas in the untroubled home of John Hodgman, Brookline, Massachusetts mid-80s there was no one to stab my hand with a fork as I shoved it into a Pringle's tube and mortally wounded. Never mind anyone to stop me

from polishing off an entire box of trisket's an entire jar of peanut butter of a weekday afternoon while watching a doctor who on a black and white television set, I was a sophisticate. Hey, before we go and have Jesse three the credits, we do have to pay off our incredible quiz. What kind of potato chip was Jesse eating?

If you get it right, you get a free Lisa mattress. Okay, hang on a second. I have a guess. I have a guess. And I feel pretty good about it. Yep. Do you? All right.

My guess, yeah, my guess. Whoa. Lays Classic. Put that in the hopper. That's like guessing, it's like being on Wheel of Fortune and guessing RST L&E or whatever. No, no, no, no, it's not. Not really. No, it's not.

Okay. Because, and I'll tell you, and I'll tell you why, there's so, there's more potato chips, varieties of potato chips, brands of potato chips, and flavors of potato chips, than there are letters in the alphabet. bet. The reason I'm guessing Lays Classic was because of the offhanded way you said I'm eating potato chips, which made me think I'm eating the most generic form of potato chip, which is the Lays Classic. That's my logic. Yeah. Here's my thing. I felt like I detected, and now we're dealing with microphone, so I don't, you probably have a great microphone. I felt I detected a crunchier, the whole thing would be crunchier than Lays, then Lays. which is a very thin and extra salty potato chip.

I want to... Are you going Cape Cod Cettle? Cape Cod Cettle? Yeah. No, no, no, just Cape Cod Plain. I am, yeah. Cape Cod Plain, all right. And I'm going to, you know, I was going to make a guess

just because Jesse is a son of San Francisco and likes things, I was thinking, does Itzit make a brand of potato chip? Is there a sour dough flavor? flavored potato chip that I don't know about. Boudan, does Tassahara Bakery make a potato chip? I'll tell you what, don't Google San Francisco potato chip, because the Urban Dictionary will tell you it means something other than a potato chip.

Don't look it up. I was going to say, if I'm going to play it straight, that I'm throwing Lays Plain, an estimable chip, by the way. Very, very good chip. The default chip, I believe. I'm going to throw that right into the garbage can. though, because I know, I don't think, Jesse is a person of taste and distinction, and I don't think he's going to go that plain. Cape Cod, I, Jesse doesn't even know what New England is.

Ah, interesting. See, that's, now you're, now you're doing it. You're making educated guesses. I like this. I think that if you were going to go for a crunchy style potato chip and, and, I mean, I don't even know if he wants a crisp or a crunchy one necessarily. Crunchy may be too, I don't know, too crunchy, but, um, I would imagine it's going to be some kind of good local brand or something that he grew up with. So I guess, like, what's the best West Coast potato chip? Best West Coast potato chip. This is just right off the top of my don't.

I'm not typing into anything. No, as you look just off camera. That's going to be a sweet Maui onion Hawaiian chip would be the best local potato chip. Glad to help you with that. Are you, oh, that's what you're, okay, but, hmm. If you're just looking, that's not an answer. I'm not offering a tip or a hint here. I'm just saying if you want the best local.

Maui Hawaiian, is that by kettle, kettle chip, sweet Maui Hawaiian? I believe they acquired them at some point. It used to be by granny goose. Well, I would love to say, speaking of grannies, I'd love to say grandma Uts because grandma Utt's potato chips from by Uts are the only potato chips that I know that are sold commercially that are still fried and lard. They're very delicious. But I'm going to go

with a Tim's Cascade from the Pacific Northwest. Plain. And I'm not going to say Charles Chips because Charles Chips used to be delivered to your door like milk. Did you know that?

Yeah, it comes in a big tin. Potato chips. Big tin of Charles Chips. That's right. Charles Chips. All right. So that's my guess. Who's closest? Guys, I really appreciate all your efforts. All your guests stunk. Excellent. John, you're correct that I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I grew up loving those sweet Maui onion potato chips, which my father would sometimes purchase at the

Walgreens near our house or apartment on Godius Street in Bernal Heights. But, you know, I don't live in San Francisco anymore. Now I live in Lincoln Heights in Los Angeles, just a couple of minutes south on the 110 from South Pasadena, California, the home of the original, yes, that's right, Trader Joe's store. Whoa. Gentlemen, I was eating Trader Joe's Ridgecut potato chips. Those are great.

Salt and pepper flavor. Oh, those. And pepper flavor. Home run. That's a flat out home. Wow. The Trader Joe's chips are great. The salt and pepper flavor.

pepper, phenomenal. That is, I'm so happy to hear that. That's so great. That is like, I thought it couldn't maybe reach this kind of culmination and yet it did. That's great. Trader Joe, salt and pepper. Wow. No one wins a Lisa mattress, sadly, but we all go home with a brand new, nationally available potato chip recommendation. I'm having potato chips and popcorn for my dinner tonight. I don't know about you all. Jesse Thorne, why don't we say Thank you to our friends Michael Ian Black and Tom Kavanaugh of the Mike and Tom Eat Snacks Podcast available now again and forever. Wherever you get your podcast, it's a terrific podcast.

And Michael, I just want to offer you once again, every time I see you, I must offer my sincere apologies because I started reading Moby Dick in a dumb main accent into my substack once a week or so. And I'm out realizing that I was ripping off your wonderful podcast obscure. where you read chapters of various old English language classic novels. And it's a delightful podcast. And which one are you reading now? Currently, about three quarters of the way through Theodore Dreisers' An American Tragedy.

I started reading it aloud about two years ago. I'm still going. And it's a good book. Season four of obscure. We've read. That sounds wonderful. Well, I'm going to tell you all the books we read, and you can cut them out or you don't have to. But I feel like people need to know.

All right. Thomas Hardy's Jude the obscure was the first one, followed by Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, followed by Emily Bronte's. Everyone's Fave. Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights. And now Dreisers in American Tragey. Well, you should listen to that and you should listen to Mike and Tom eat snacks, available wherever you get your podcast. And if you want to listen to me, read Moby Dick out loud in a terrible main accent.

You know where to go, hodjum.com. I threw in a plug of my own there, Jesse Thorne. You want to take us out? Indeed, I want to mention that I have been enjoying Mike on Have I Got News for you on the CNN network. And just last night, I was watching the hit television program, Peacemaker, on Home Box Office Maximum, and there was my friend Michael Ian Black. I was happy to see him. Judge Sean Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne. and John Hodgman, our social media specialist, Megan Rosati, the podcast edited by

A.J. McKean, Daniel Spear, our video producer. The show is produced by Jennifer Marmer. Photos from our program on Instagram at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We're also on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman pod. Follow and subscribe to see our episodes and video-only content. John, I have been active on blue sky lately. What I decided my like needed was more social media crap. What could go wrong? Yeah, more places for people to let me know whether my face is punchable. You can find me Jesse Thorne on Blue Sky. Let me know. Hit me up in the comments. Yeah, hit him up in the comments, not in his face. And I'm also on Instagram, Jesse Thorne, very famous. John is also on Instagram, John Hodgman. John, we need cases for

for our program. We are reaching the end of the holiday season. As you listen to this, me, I'm barely into it, but you're getting towards the end. Many of us are packing to come home after your visits to your loved ones or your liked ones. Your disputes are going to happen. It's hard to travel this time of year, whether you're traveling by planes, trains or automobiles, no conveyances without its problem, even a finicular. What kind of disputes have you had over travel lately. Maybe you've had a dispute over what to eat in the car, anything too smelly to eat. Do you still like to print out directions like it's 1994? Are you philosophically opposed to ever checking a piece of luggage? Or are you an adult who's got an air tag? Just check your

bags, everybody. Trains, planes, automobiles, any kind of travel dispute. Let us know. Submit your travel disputes at maximum fund.org slash JJHO. And indeed, Jesse, we're looking for all kinds of disputes, right? Absolutely. Especially if you live in San Francisco, because we're coming to Sketchfest or in San Francisco Bay Area. You can dispute with me whether the best local potato chip is a sweet Maui onion, Hawaiian chip. I heard it's a rice eroni chip. No matter when no one in San Francisco has ever eaten. I've never eaten rice errone in my entire life. Guess what I'm having for dinner. Popcorn, potato chips, and rice errone. I've decided. I did. We're eager to hear about any dispute on any subject, of course. Go to maximum fun.org

slash JJHO. I've never eaten anything out of a bread bowl either. That's another thing that I'm completely unfamiliar with as a native San Francisco. What do you think I'm putting my rice or runny potato chips and talking? The bread bowl honestly sounds all right. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Network of Artists Owned Shows, supported directly by you.