Judge John Hodgman - Snap Judgment

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Eman brings the case against his wife, Cassie. When Cassie turned 38, Eman helped her with a photoshoot. She asked him to edit the photos in photoshop for her. But when he finished the task, she decided to post the unedited version on her social media. Eman says that Cassie took advantage of his free labor! Who’s right? Who’s wrong?Thank you to Twitter User @robt77 for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities: @JesseThorn & @Hodgman. Or keep track using the Twitter hashtag #JJHoCaseNames.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, snap judgment. E-man brings the case against his wife Cassie. When Cassie turned 38, E-man helped her with a photo shoot. She asked him to edit the photo in Photoshop, but when he finished the task, she decided to post the unedited version on her social media. Eman says that Cassie took advantage of his free labor. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Something's definitely going on down there. active is pinging back something really big it's huge and it's coming right up underneath us where it's everywhere there starboard bow

look at that bailiff jesse thorn please swear them in eman and cassie please rise and raise your right hands do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God or whatever. Yes, I do. Or whatever. KG. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he does not appear in photographs like some kind of invisible man?

Yes, I do. Absolutely. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Everyone sees my floating bandages and sunglasses. I don't know why it's a problem. Frankly, it's the best version of me. Nothing to worry about. Just a bandage sunglasses, man.

That's right. And nothing else. Just a floating head, floating bandaged head sunglasses and a floating bottle of Malort. But do you ever feel invisible? Not often enough, Cassie. I wish I could apply the incredible Zoom teleconferencing invention of hide self view to my whole life.

I'm sick of it. In fact, you know what? I'm turning off hide self view now so I can look at all of you. There. Oh, look, you're all a little bit bigger now that I've made that adjustment. Reading from top to bottom, I say hello to litigant E-man. I say hello to litigant Cassie. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, it's lovely to see you again. And then there's producer Jennifer

Marmer down there at the bottom. How are you all? Good? Good. You may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can you name the piece of culture that I referenced when I entered this fake internet courtroom? E-Man, I'm reading from top to bottom. You happen to be up top. You go first. What's your guess? I'm going to say Godzilla is the only thing that I could think of. That's what came to mind. Godzilla. You know

what, E-Man? I'm not saying whether you're right or wrong, but you're not correct, but that's actually in the zone. I like it. I like that guess. I mean, I've been in kaiju mode for like a while now. Right. It's just on my mind a lot. Right. Yeah. I could, I could tell because when I logged in, you, you manifested it as a spinning turtle shell with flames coming out the holes. Kaiju mode. I'm glad you picked that up. Yeah. Well, it was hard to hard to miss cassie what is your guess

oh man in the vein of godzilla um well let me put it to you this way you're not gonna win no one will no one ever does so pressure's off too i'll give you a hint it's not actually a kaiju but it is a movie it's a movie hear it again? Yes. Because this is one of the most famous lines in cinema. Okay. Something's definitely going on down there. Active is pinging back something really big. It's huge and it's coming up right underneath us. Where?

It's everywhere. There. Starboard bow. There. Look. Look. That sounds very kaiju-y, doesn't it, E-Man? It does.

I'll give you one more hint. You ready for this? Sure, yes. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, do you have this one? I think I have it, but I could be wrong. Here's the hint. Bananas. No, that doesn't help at all.

Oh, it's Chris Elliott on David Letterman. As Marlon Brando. Jesse, you are closest of all. All right, Cassie. I don't know. King Kong. All right, I said that it wasn't a kaiju. I know.

I guess technically King Kong is not a kaiju, unless it's King Kong versus Godzilla. Do mammals count as kaijus? Well, King Kong is not part of the, you know, Japanese monster movie universe originally. So I would say, okay, you're right, that King Kong is not a kaiju. Do not send me letters, anybody.

Elliot, Kalen. But you are wrong, as used in the sentence, all guesses are wrong, including Jesse Thorne's, though. He was so close. It is Chris Elliott in the movie The Abyss. That's right. James Cameron's The Abyss. It was there.

The weird comedic genius of Chris Elliott, as he was hitting it large in the 1980s, he was cast in some movies. This is what I've aspired my whole acting career towards being cast as non comedic roles in serious movies where people just go like, why is he there? Chris Elliott was in two of them. He was in Michael Mann's Manhunter as an FBI agent chasing a serial killer very seriously. And then also in the abyss, James Cameron's The Abyss as Bendix, the guy on the ship looking into a thing to see that something's coming up underneath the ship. I want you to understand that I am committed to this podcast. I'm committed to justice.

I remember that he was in the abyss. When was the last time I saw the abyss? Then. Is it good? Probably. Did I have to subscribe to Starz especially to get that quote for you? Yes, you both owe me $8.99. One for this month,

one for next month when I forget to cancel. Jennifer Marmer, did we stretch this out long enough? Because what's the case? E-Man, Cassie, the case is that Cassie, you did a photo shoot. You asked E-Man to edit it for you.

He did it. You decided not to use it. You posted the original E-Man to edit it for you he did it you decided not to use it you posted the original E-Man suing you for damages because E-Man you're a professional photographer no not in the least are you a professional photo editor uh nope not that either no right so you don't make money doing this no okay let's talk about something else then. You win, Cassie. Yes! In your face! No, we'll talk about it. I'm going to give E-Man a chance to change my mind. But I forgot for a second,

before we go on to this case that I think I've already decided, I forgot to explain why I quoted Chris Elliott in The Abyss. Quickly, E-Man, Cassie, any guesses? I have no idea. I was trying to mull it over. Yeah, you were mulling it. Yeah, you were mulling it. Yeah, mulling hard.

Because it does have something to do with this case. Does the name Tom... Cassie, I take it you don't know this one? I'm thinking hard, but I'm going to need a little more. Okay. Does the name Thomas Knoll, K-N-O-L-L, mean anything to you? Or John Knoll, K-N-O-L-L, mean anything to you? Or John Knoll, K-N-O-L-L? No.

They're the brothers who in 1987 co-created Photoshop. Oh. Thomas Knoll was a PhD candidate at the University of Michigan there in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and was frustrated that his Mac couldn't display grayscale images. So he created some software to adjust those images, and that was the birth of Photoshop. And he showed his software and developed it through showing it to his brother, Thomas Knoll, who worked at the time at Industrial Light and Magic

and was working on a movie called The Abyss and realized that he could use this software to stitch together photos, background photos, to create a 3D background static set for one of the early big CGI moves in cinema, which was in The Abyss when that water tentacle comes up and turns into a face. The Abyss. First movie, they say, to use Photoshop in its development there you go history of cinema for you this isn't blank check this is judge john hodgman e-man what's your beef i think they summed it up already but i'm going to give you a chance to briefly tell us your point

of view well uh so no i'm not a professional but had I been at least credited for even taking the photo, maybe that would have been my big break because Cassie's got quite a few followers. So tell me about the photo shoot before you start claiming IP theft. Okay, sure. So it was taken in our living room and, uh, of Cassie. She was the subject. And what was the, what was the, what was the, the purpose of the photo shoot? What was it commemorating? What was going on?

New headshots, a new record album. Um, we were commemorating Cassie's 38th birthday, um, with a great idea that she had of, uh, similar to how you would take a photo of any newborn on their birthday. It was on the floor with a blanket and a sign that said, I'm 400. And Cassie, I need your help here because I don't remember the math. I'm really well prepared case because you sent in this evidence. I'm looking at the photo. I'm 456 months old. That's it.

Yes. 456 months old. Right. it. Yes. 456 months old. Right. Great idea. I was on board. So instead of a baby lying on a quilt or a blankie, smiling as babies can be tempted to do from time to time with beef jerky, I believe. Babies love beef jerky. Yeah.

You just put peanut butter in their mouths. Right. And a sign that says, I'm nine months old. Hooray. Or whatever it is. jerky i believe babies love beef jerky yeah just put peanut butter in their mouths right and a sign that says i'm nine months old hooray or whatever it is this is grown-up cassie lying on a quilt i'm 456 months old with her foot in her mouth to look like a baby and iman this was her creative yes had you created the brief or did she, this is all hers? All her brief, all her idea entirely. I was just the

I was just lifting heavy stuff. It's a hilarious photo and Eman, I'm going to give this to you. It's a well taken photograph. Thank you. And of course it's available on our show page at MaximumFun.org Judge John Hodgman show page as well as on our Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Do we have that permission, Cassie?

Sure. Are you in doubt that you own the IP? Who's the rights holder? I would say that it's mine, and I'm giving you permission to post that. It's a very funny idea. Thank you. It's a very funny execution. And whose idea was it for you to put your toes in your mouth like a baby?

That was mine. I was just trying some things out and it just felt right. You just got into that baby mindset? I guess so. Yeah. What other baby things did you try out? Did you audition any? You know, I don't really remember. Any spitting up? Did you audition any? You know, I don't really remember.

Any spitting up? Did you audition any spit ups? There was probably drooling, but not so much spitting up. Yeah, I think we started to try that and realized that the picture, the whole feel of the picture changed completely. Interesting choice of words. We started to try that. Well, i was definitely like not silent yeah i was present i was for sure i had to direct at least some some part of it

because i was behind the camera right um right mostly agreeing right and showing you were like going yes yes work yes oh look here now. Yes. Ferocious baby. I love it. Perfect. Right. Who was operating the giant wind machine? That was one of our kids. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Great. They were, I don't know. I'm not in showbiz. I don't know what those like big things are that they use to reflect the lights, but.

Yeah, I think they're big things. I don't know. That's Chris Elliott. He's been in the movies. reflect the lights but yeah i think they're big things i don't know that's chris elliott he's been in the movies whose idea was it to pose on top of this quilt full of kittens not live kittens the print on this kid that would be mine yeah that's your kitten blankie yes yes fantastic who wrote on the little card next to your head i'm 456 months old that would also be me judge who who did the math that is also me usually i'm the one doing math you know no i understand i'm just saying in this particular piece of intellectual property okay and and cassie do you acknowledge that uh that e-man was there taking the photo uh He was there, but was he really present? Well, let me ask you this question.

So I see two versions of the photo here. These are just two iterations, right? Is one the edited version, one the non-edited version? I don't have the edited version. Okay, so the thing that you're claiming was this irreplaceable piece of IP that you deserve credit and money for, you don't have the edited version okay so the the thing that you're claiming was this irreplaceable piece of ip that you deserve credit and money for you don't have i may have spitefully deleted it in a blind rage no but what i actually am a spite delete is very common well if you check if you

check the post i'm not even credited as the photographer so the bare minimum of crediting for involvement at all, which is the, like, I argue the picture could not have been taken without me. I think that's probably true. I think that's probably true. Presuming that your camera doesn't have a self timer and you, Cassie couldn't have made a cassette recording of her voice saying good, good, great. I love it. Bail of Jesse Thorne.

Cassie has acknowledged that E-man was definitely in the room and E-man definitely snapped the snap, right? Cassie? Yes. But a special kind of camera, or was it a, just a phone camera or what?

No, it was, it was, was a a uh i'm not gonna i'm you can say it well i listen to the show and i know i know better than the i don't care oh okay we're past that what's like you know what we've been through over the course of the show yeah that's a good point um well it's like a nikon P1000, like DSLR, heavy duty, real camera. Like not just a full camera. Nikon P1000.

Are you confident that's not something you just made up? I'm never confident that things come out of my mouth are just like things I just conjured up from some loose memory, but I'm certain that that's what it is. That's a real photo. That's a real camera. I have to tell you, Cassie, I just looked it up. Okay up okay that is a real camera that is a real pro camera i'm looking at the price uh even on sale today a federal holiday one on which we're recording that's a top that's a top dollar cam yeah okay all right that's something you use you're more than a hobbyist

uh or a you know what i mean yeah you're not a professional but you're you're more than a hobbyist uh or a you know what i mean yeah you're not a professional but you're you're more than a a point and clicker i did i did go to school for photography and then realized that i uh my calling was in other things what is your calling well i'm currently in school for computer science so computer science yes right so uh the video games are my jam and so i'm hoping they're like can i buzz market myself and say that i'm looking for work at the moment i have i don't think your dog wants you to yeah she's she wants me home at all times no i think she's like this is going you're going too far you man you can't buzz market yourself i was a 100% certain, Judge Hodgman, that when you asked him what his calling was,

he said, oh, I'm a nun. Thanks, though. I took the thing off. No, he's into video games, so his calling is of duty. Yes. Goodbye forever. I retire. That's it.

End of the show. End of the program. Have that dog bark at me. Chase me off the set. Goodbye. What's your dog's name? We just call her Schnau. She's a Schnauzer. You didn't bother to name her? Well, her given name is Sabrina, but I'm not a huge fan. It's a little bit too human. I like Schnau. It's Sabrina after Cerberus, the guardian of hell, because she's constantly guarding his desk area. So that's

where Sabrina came from. More Cerberina. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This sounds like a real case, actually. Should we dispute this one instead? Oh, we could do that, too. I'm happy to. Why did you get to name the dog, Cassie? Why did you get to name the dog, Cassie? Oh, well, we kind of came to the conclusion as a family because everyone's been bit by the dog. So it seemed like the most effective name for the dog. Who are the other stakeholders in this decision? Three children. Right. So, yeah. for the dog who are the other stakeholders in this decision uh three children um right so uh uh yeah so e-man what would you have named the dog since you were obviously outvoted by your

children and cassie um she kind of looks like a hyena so the sorry the hyena in um lion king's name is shanzi And I was pretty partial to that name. I like that name, Shenzi. Do you feel that you are often being erased by your family? That your history of contribution to this family is erased? You don't get credit? Your dog name suggestions get overruled and even the dog is mad at you all the time? Even the dog tries to speak over you?

Not just me. Yeah, I accept that my autonomy is relinquished, which is why I'm so obsessed with virtual worlds where I have total control. Trying to disappear into your games. Everybody in my games does exactly what I programmed them to do. Unlike me. Cassie, you're about to lose your husband into the game grid, Tron style. That's fine. You're going to into game world i've accepted it so wow cassie what is your calling uh i um used to be a writer and uh in the the before times was ran a karaoke company in brooklyn and then we moved upstate and uh now i'm kind of figuring stuff out and selling vintage things and just stupid

things that i make um going to graduate school for nunnery that too uh yes yes a tough tough road to hoe i realize that calling is a is a big word i didn't mean to intimidate either of you i mean by calling i just mean like what do you do between dawn and dusk that makes you feel slightly alive and kills all these final hours that we have here together um i sell old junk yeah well i i sell junk but i also make stuff so i make puppets that look like people i could paint or fabricate kind of anything so uh i think the big thing last week was we had let our yard grow, um, for no mow May, which is where you have your grass grow for pollinators and just don't mow it for a month. It was getting to be kind of extreme. So, um, I was going to take care of it, but then I realized I could do a crop circle. So, um, I took some time to, carve um i want to believe in the the grass in the side yard

and um so mostly just things for my own amusement is what my calling is and how much of that project do you want e-man how much credit do you want for that uh prop circle project wow maybe not a hundred percent but when we first got here i i was the grass mower and i was criticized for initially not mowing the lawn in i guess whatever the traditional way of mowing a lawn is which is like line by line i was kind of doing circle stuff so i'm not saying i have you feel like it was project. I would say I'm an inspiration more than I get credit for. What you were originally criticized for, your unorthodox circle-weavy style of grass mowing is now being used as inspiration for Cassie's art project. Yeah, yes. I'm going to go with yeah. That is a bold statement.

Yeah. Seems like a statement of fact to me. Statement of fact to me. Wow, the tides have really turned here. This is some, well, I'm getting some, I'm getting some very interesting background. Trying to see where this comes from.

Trying to find that crux. But every other part of it, as far as the uh like the signature the writing of it and the execution i had nothing to do with that i kind of just saw it afterwards laughed and i will add that cassie said she makes dumb stuff i would disagree i think the stuff she makes are has universal appeal and it'd be foolish not to like totally enjoy. Yeah. I don't know why you're running it down, Cassie. Seems like you are both living a dreamy life. Seems that way.

Wow. No, no, I'm kidding. I do kind of have to, yeah, have to be kind of grateful sometimes. Things are pretty cool. Let's take a quick recess. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck.

Made in, made in. Riders of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need.

Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have

in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning

causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language.

It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners. Right now, get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L

dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. All right, let's get back to this photo then and see if we can solve this issue and then we'll resolve all the other issues in what time we have remaining. So these two photos that I'm looking at, they're two different poses from the same photo shoot. But if I understand correctly, Eman, neither of them is the edited one. These are both unedited. Correct. And what, go ahead. Well, I was going to, I was going to supply you with the link to the actual posts, which

I think. I know that you want me to like the post. I will look at the post. No, no. I understand this whole thing is this incredibly elaborate trick to get me to go look at your social media feed and like this post. I worked so hard to try and layer my real intentions. No, it's really not that. I just want to be on the same page as well. It's not even my social media. I'm not a big, you know.

Don't worry. Everyone will go look at this picture. Don't worry. So neither of these are edited. E-Man, what were you asked to do vis-a-vis editing this photo? Because these look pretty good to me as is. What were you asked to do? Well, some simple cropping to get rid of the parts

of the photo that are like not cute cats and and the sign right i was asked to make the sign kind of like stand out a little bit more and then there's a slight green tinge over cassie's left shoulder that's coming from a lamp that we have in the living room i was asked to like color correct that so that it doesn't look like there's this like green light coming in on her eyes from reflecting on the glasses. Sure. And how long would you say this took you to do? Five, nine days?

What? Probably two hours. Two hours. Two hours of cropping and color correcting and a little sizzle on the sign that says I'm 456 months old. That's right. And Cassie, when you received the edited one, you decided to go ahead and use the original why? It wasn't good.

It was like out of focus. And then the color correction was off. So it was like partially green, but in like an alien kind of way. So I was hoping that someone that won this you know you probably could have won this case without being hurtful i'd rather just get in there you could have simply said he did a great job but when i when i got that when i looked at them both i don't know something just spoke to me about the unedited it's like it wasn't it wasn't good made me look like an alien bad bad cropping my husband's a bad cropper that's harsh just nothing good about it um so part of part of the thing here and part of

what um my defense would be is that eman has a uh a long history of taking really unflattering photos when I am specifically asking, please take a nice picture. Because a thing happens when you're an adult with kids where all the photos end up being taken by a child. They're from the position of someone that's three feet tall. So it's all double chin, super unflattering. So like I occasionally want a nice photo to remind myself that I'm a human being and not just like a provider of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And so my exhibits A and B would be

some photos that were sent to you. The first one being pictures from when we first started dating. So we'd been dating maybe like three months and it was New Year's Eve and we were going out on the town and I had a 1978 AMC Gremlin that I was really super duper proud of. I just opened these photos and boy, did you. That is one beautiful gremlin wow it was in perfect condition it came out of a garage it was i don't love that you're talking about it in the past tense i don't want to know what happened to this gremlin did sabrina eat this car or something well it was when we we inherited children uh so um like uh when we got the kids, we had had the car for about like a year and a half. And then it just became kind of unpractical because the safety measures in 1978 are not the same as they are in modern day.

I don't think they had seatbelts then. I think they had seat strings. Yeah, a lot of exhaust too. That's what they have the red rope for in the Mirth Mobile in Wayne's World. Well, the license plate was Mr. Big with three Gs. Look at that. So like I was super psyched about this car and I just wanted like a like a hot lady on a Corvette type photo taken of myself. And instead, the only photos from that night are these weird sideways ones that E-Man took. And that is the memory of that New Year's Eve.

So like slightly unflattering from the perspective of um maybe like a toddler and uh well there's a low there's a low one definitely where it's like eman you must have been sort of like kneeling on the curb yeah i had to i had to work for that one right just out of there you know but i'm gonna say something about this where was this taken in bedstuy where we used to live yeah you had your grandma you parked it on the street? Yeah. This is during your karaoke days? Yeah. What a life.

Now, I'm looking at these photos, and I'm going to tell you something. These are hot photos. These are good. Sorry, Cassie. These are good photos. In particular, the one that is from the point of view of a toddler. I'm looking at the one that is lowest to the ground. The camera is lowest to the ground.

And you're on the hood of that gremlin with that Mr. Big, B-I-G-G, Mr. Big. It just hit me. You had said it earlier. It's Mr. Big, but it's B-I-6-6-6. This is an incredible album cover. And also, I took the photos knowing that if necessary, I could edit them later. So if there was, those are totally, no, that's how I always take any photo. You knew that later you could add, for example, focus, which you're missing from a number of these well you got to take quite

a few i mean you said that there are two but there's one in particular i think it's good it's good i'm looking at photo 20161231 underscore 2204 224019.jpg which by the way is now the name of your band for this album. It's just all keyboards. 100%. See you at solid sound in two years. I know that you don't love these photos. I understand, but I'm telling you, it's pretty good. This is not evidence it's working in your favor. Cassie looks like in photo 206161231 underscore224019.jpg.

Cassie does have a look on her face like, oh, we're taking this picture? It's not really a come hither stare. It's more of like, go thither. Like Cassie said, this was when we first started dating. And I mean, we're married now. There's a real look of distrust. Yeah. A real look of like, I don't know about I don't know about this guy.

I don't know about this photo. And obviously the suspicion lingers. Still don't know. Do you, Cassie? No, not not really. Not sold on it. Look, I never promised to be a photographer, the best photographer that you would have till death do us part. That wasn't anywhere in our vows. What are you trying to prove, Cassie, that he takes crummy photos? Because look, obviously these are just snaps. And you know what? Maybe it's out of focus because his hands are shaking because he's very excited to be on this date with this beautiful person with this cool car.

What a wingman. Well, let's take a look at Exhibit B. What a wingman. Well, let's take a look at Exhibit B. So Exhibit B is a photo at the lake that we live at. And it was taken two years ago. And this is the lake where you live at now. Yes.

Yeah. Upstate New York, Lake Karaoke. Yes. Lake Seneca. So I asked EamMan to take some pictures. And the one that's there is the best one he managed to take, where I don't know if it's in front of you, but you'll notice it looks like I don't have a lower half of my body. This is you, the one of you lying on the on the yellow towel. Yes. And it's clearly some kind of vintage towel because it's got some kind of embroidery on it.

Is it something that was stolen from a 1965 motel on Route 66 or something? Could be. I'm feeling your vibe. I've got a sense of your vibe, Cassie. And I want you to know I like it. Thank you, John. You know what else? I like this photo too.

I get it. I get it. We don't like the photos that we're in all the time. But I don't know what you're proving here, that he can't take a photograph? Well, when she pointed out the lower half. Yeah, now that you pointed out that it looks like. You can't unsee it now. Looks like your legs end at your knees. Yeah, okay, I see it now.

It's like an optical illusion almost. Now it's the only thing I can see. You're right. Yeah, well, the shadows also from the trees look like there's a lot of bruising happening. So not only am I missing my legs from the trees look like there's a lot of bruising happening so not only am i missing you know am i missing my legs from the knee down but uh there's also a tremendous amount of trauma that's happened to cause that so um it's like a hot post shark bite picture well now i like it again as a native californian i look at this picture and all I can see is that apparently in the Northeast, when people lay out and relax on towels, it's on piles of rocks and plants. Oh, it's hell. That can be, I can attest to that. That is absolutely true.

Yeah. And I will also say now that I'm looking at this a little bit more closely, there are people in the background. It is not framed particularly well. If you look to the left of Cassie's head, there's someone with a mountain bike kind of standing there looking at their phone. Oh yeah, probably. It's not the natural splendor that you were looking for. There's a lot of teens and hoodlums that hang at this weird underpass beach area in our town. Then there's a photo of you wearing a cool blue speed suit on a dirt road holding some husked corn and something else. What's that one? That's my evidence for a good photo.

And when asked to, like, this is a common thing you know, like sometimes taking pictures of each other, you know, we will do that from time to time. And I, sure, I don't always nail it, but I submitted that one as evidence that I can take a good photo. And that one was, by the way,

also used, also not credited for. Do you agree that that's a good photo, Cassie? I do. But I would also like to say that when you're married, what is credit really? You're united as one entity. Look, it's not the way I live my life, but lots of married couples do keep separate finances and separate property legally.

I don't see it that way. Is that how you organize your life? It's starting to sound like I wasn't. It wasn't before, but. You are legally married in the state of New York? Yes. I mean, I understand when you're a cool young couple living on the shores of Lake Karaoke, New York, making your human-shaped puppets and coming up with

cool names for your dog and lying on retro towels by the lake, you don't need a piece of paper to prove your love for each other. I know you're beyond all that, but do you have a legal piece of paper that says that you are married? We do. Yeah. All right. It's in this file.

And do you share a bank account? No. No. Oh. But there's not... I mean, you keep separate bank accounts, but it's not legally separated. Yeah. Like we do share finances.

It's a requirement for surviving. Okay. Cassie, why is it important for you to not merely deny E-Man credit on your social media when you post photos that he took, but also then to go on a podcast and say he's very bad at what he does in the photo taking department? Well, when you put it that way, it sounds really bad, John. Well, you're sharing all these photos that are not particular. I mean, you're trying to prove that he's a bad photographer. I mean, all E-Man is saying is, I want some credit for the time I spent editing this photo.

And you're saying he doesn't deserve credit because even though I asked him to take these photos over the years from the beginning of our marriage until now, he takes bad ones. Bad photo taker, bad cropper. So with the original photo, my one ask, it was for my birthday, was for him to take a nice picture of me. And that's all I wanted for my birthday. Didn't want a present, didn't want anything. It was just that. And then instead it turned into this ordeal where he's standing on like a ladder and turning on all the lights in the living room. And, you know, kids are holding lights.

And then still came out weird and then the photoshop was worse so i i had been hoping for i don't know uh i felt that maybe like being that it was my birthday that that would like uh exclude me having to post uh credit to this torturous photo shoot that you're describing. This is the I am 400 and however many months old. Yes. Photo shoot. I'm 456 months old. Did he tell you to put your toes in your mouth?

No, that was me. No, that was you. I thought that this was fun. I thought you had fun making this photo. But now it's something that E-Man made you do did I misunderstand something? no you do have a point you have a point

I thought this is a concept photo this is not just a nice photo this is a concept photo did you pitch the concept or no? I did okay E-Man when the photo was posted

to Cassie's social media by Cassie or Cassie's social media manager, I don't know who that might be. Probably Sabrina the dog. You received zero credit. Not merely did you not get credit for the Photoshop. The Photoshop wasn't used. That probably made you feel a way.

And then you were not mentioned at all as the photographer, correct? Correct. Okay. How did all those things make you feel? Well, the Photoshop not being used was the first sting. It was the first blow. And then not being credited was what inspired me to contact the court. And now, and this is on me.

You contacted the court two years ago. Yes. Well, this is not on you. No, it is. It actually is on me because I thought that there was no reply. And I mean, that's on me. That's on me. OK, that one, it just slipped through the cracks. I apologize to both of you and especially to Sabrina the dog. Don't bark at me. But here it is two years later. It still is in your craw. Tell me why. of a of a acknowledgement of like uh the effort that i put in uh first before the criticism i think actually in summary uh judgment in my favor i would ask that cassie have to say two nice things before she criticizes anything whoa okay wow well let me just review what your petition was here your original ideal ruling was to get credit and some kind of acknowledgement for the work that you did yeah i think that we've

gotten you acknowledgement that you did the work in this podcast that has happened yeah but with the caveat that the work was bad cassie seems very very intent on making sure that you do get credit for the work and also blame. Yeah, which I'm fine with. I can take it. But now you're revising your petition to a much bigger ask. This is like a community service type punishment. Which is, excuse me, order in my court. Which is to say, I want to hear two nice things before I hear criticism. Is that correct? Yes.

This is obviously a bigger issue then. Do you feel that you are not praised and merely criticized? It can happen. You're reading the room. You're reading the room pretty succinctly, I'd say. Yeah. All right. When you say praise to critique, you're asking the room pretty pretty succinctly i'd say um yeah all right when when you say praise to critique you're asking for two to one two to praise to critique yeah right let me ask you a question are you ever praised sure yeah yeah okay yeah so what is the current ratio of praised critique you want two to one yeah whatever it is you do you take a picture uh you make a sandwich you walk the dog i don't know what kind of things do you get criticized for uh well you mentioned walking the dog not walking the dog is something that you're criticized for but that's it's going

to be hard to come up with praise for not walking the dog yeah that's fair well geez this is a little tough on the spot to think of. All right. All right. You know what? I'm going to give you a few moments to prepare your case. I understand that you're changing your request in mid court. But I would say it's very out of order. This is very I don't want you to jump in. I want you to take some time to think about it. OK. When you say you want to praise to criticism, I need to hear what are some of the things you get critiqued for? Some of the stings that you would like to sting less now while you're thinking

about it. While you're thinking about it. Let me give you a little critique. You talk too quick. Think. Think then talk. Edit that out. That was too mean. I apologize. No, it was right. It was true. Oh, all right. Leave it in. Leave it in. Cassie, when your husband E-Man says, I would like to be praised a little bit more than I am criticized, how does that make you feel? criticism with just an overall negativity that maybe I might have. And that I'm being more cognizant of. Like yesterday, he came in to go to bed, and I had been looking through my phone. And the first thing I said to him was not like, I love you, hon. It was. Did you know that 31 people died in a stampede in Nigeria today?

And then I like caught myself and realized what an awful thing to say to someone who's about to go to bed. So. Well, but on the other hand, I mean, both things are true and both things deserve your attention. Well, I think I think the reason is that it has become this cumulative thing where um so we have we have three dogs and one of them is 17 and incontinent i thought you just had one dog with three heads it feels that way that's the misconception does um but yeah so one of them is 17 and she's incontinent and so she'll just she's too old to kind of walk um and so a lot of cleaning has to happen around the house and so uh there was a while where the mop itself was like starting to just add stink to the floor and i'm home most of the time cassie leaves

like completely purifies her nostrils and comes home and then it's just hit with that with the funk and it's it's something that like I'm usually home doing stuff and so until she points it out I'm like I didn't even notice but it was like this thing where the first thing I'd hear from her when she gets home is it really smells in here so it was before hello before how was how my day was or whatever and so i think it's this cumulative effect of like this is what you worked on when when i was talking to cassie this is what you came up with no this is kind of on the spot it was like what do i i gotta think of something that i'm unfairly criticized

oh being disgusting that That's it. Yeah. Failing to clean up the dog urine. I should say there's a distance between where I usually am. Cassie made the case for you so much better. Cassie's out here going like, I may exude some negativity unconsciously. That may be a burden to my husband. I maybe should have to keep an eye on it.

And you're like, sometimes she says it stinks in here when I failed to clean up the dog urine. It's not that I failed to clean the dog urine. What was the problem again? Well, okay. I'll admit that sometimes I fail to notice there's dog urine. You're both in the house, right? You're both living up there. Yeah. Yeah. But Cassie's the one that actually gets to leave the house. I the stay-at-home parent may i ask you a question about the photos cassie sure i am someone who hates every photo of me i cannot stand to look at a photograph of me um because my vision of myself is very different from like i don't like seeing how the world sees me i have a different idea of what i look like and there's nothing wrong with that dude in the photos.

People seem to like him fine, but I hate him. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just hate that guy. Hate him. Don't like to see him. Feel gross when he shows up. It's the worst. That's why I covered my head with bandages and wear sunglasses all the time.

It's not just because I'm invisible. Because unfortunately, I am invisible. Would you say that you have a relationship with photos of yourself that is similar to that or dissimilar to that? Um, well, I, I think of if, if I'm going to do a photo shoot thing where I'm doing something stupid and involving E-Man. It's more of like an art project than, uh, anything. So I'm, I'm kind of, uh, like looking for a certain thing. And if I'm asking anyone to help me, it's like, because I can't do it myself. Um, so I, uh, uh, do like taking pictures that are like fun or stupid to document whatever fun or stupid thing that I happen to be doing at the time. You're documenting your projects?

Yeah. Your projects. Yes. All right. What's the social media account? I need to take a look at this real quick. I dropped a link in the chat. Okay, Cassie.

I'm looking at your social media now, your Instagram. Incredible. Most beautiful woman in puppet land is your bio. This is truly Hipsburg, upstate New York. I love it. Who's taking the photos in here? You're taking photos of really weird paperbacks that you found. That's me. That's awesome. Are these some of the things that you find in resale uh yeah i i make notebooks out of uh like vintage um romance novels and kids books that i think are funny yeah so you're doing your art projects and so forth good for you this is uh what i collect right we're on two totally opposite ends of existence one in which I'm like this really, I'm very interested in like emergent technology

and how these things work. And Cassie is very much like on preserving the things of the past that have found their way to places that she thinks they should find. Junk and stuff. Yeah, I wanted to add that the car, because of Cassie's gift, really, I would say, is making sure things get to where they should be. And the car ended up in the hands of, correct me if I'm wrong here, Cassie,

but Milton Hershey's car collecting nephew who purchased it from us. Milton Hershey of the Hershey chocolate family? Yes. So it went to a little Hersh, the nef, the nephew? So when I was selling it, I put it on Craigslist and he was in Ohio and happened to be like, you know, looking at larger areas to find this car. So he had had a crush on a coworker in the seventies and she drove a yellow Gremlin. And, uh, so we happened to be going to Hershey park in Hershey, Pennsylvania. So we, Glenn Hershey drove halfway and met us in Hershey to do the car exchange.

And he was just an incredible weirdo. And so it went to the right person. Yeah. Incredible weirdo. That's so great. And that's such a nice thing for you to say, E-Man, about your wife who clearly loves you but spent the past hour kind of pooping on you. Or at least incontinent dog urinating on you, perhaps. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my verdict.

I'll be back in a moment when we're ready for my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. E-Man, how do you feel about your chances in the case? I'm feeling pretty good about it. Judge Hosman has a history of being a reasonable and fair judge. So I think, yeah, I think it's going to go well. Cassie, how do you feel about your chances in the case? Well, I was riding high and feeling pretty confident, but now I'm not

so sure. So really, I just have to put my faith in the justice system here and hope that things shake out in my favor and we could all just put this matter behind us. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a moment. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace

because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh

and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah! We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're taking a quick break. We're reminding everyone in the Northeast, and I've expanded this. Previously, I had said the tri-state area. Then I expanded that, I think, to the quad-state area. I don't know what these states are. I'm going to be frank with you. Sure. And I expanded that, I think, to the quad state area.

I don't know what these states are. I'm going to be frank with you. Sure. I want everybody to know that we are going to be performing at Lincoln Center in New York City in a beautiful outdoor amphitheater. The show is free. And if you live within hailing distance of New York City, I expect you to be there and I expect you to bring somebody because it is going to be a blast. We're going to bring Jean Grey.

I'm going to bring my ukulele and sing one light song and one heavier song. I'm going to sing an acapella song of my own choosing. We love it. And look, if you're within hailing distance of New York City, you ought to get there. There's lots of public transportation. They all go to the crossroads of the world, Lincoln Center, The Crossroads of the World, Lincoln Center, Damrash Park, Amphitheater, Outdoors, Outstanding, June 29th, absolutely free, absolutely outdoors. There's no reason you can't be there.

But listen, if you're within hailing distance, please don't hail on us. Do you know what I mean? No hail, no rain, no lightning, no sleet. And if we do have that kind of weather, we'll follow guidance. But do you know what's going to happen? It's going to be a beautiful night. I'm calling it Jesse Thorne.

It's going to be a beautiful, clear June night. It's going to be a beautiful night. Prince taught us that. That's right. June 29th, Lincoln Center. Just go to bit.ly slash JJHO Lincoln. That's all one word, all capital letters. J.J. Ho, L-I-N-C-O-L-N, or use your preferred search engine and put in terms such as Judge John Hodgman Lincoln Center. Be there or be as square as those quad states. What else have you got going on, John? Dicktown's on Hulu. Watch Dicktown. It's

so great. It's so funny. David Reese is so funny. Hodgman's so funny. Thank you. Lots of great guest stars on this show. You know who's so funny on that show? Jamie Lee Curtis. Jamie Lee Curtis is so funny. Amy Sedaris. Jean Grey. Mike Mitchell of those Doughboys. Watch Stick Town.

Don't be a chump. And guess what, John? It's dads and grad season. Yeah. So if you've got a dad or a grad, go to put this on shop.com and get something special for them. It's a perfect time to go to put this on shop.com because look, it's, as you say, dad's and grad season, it's dad's day coming up. It's grad's day coming up. And if you don't got a grad or a dad in your life, there's probably someone you'd like to get a little, a little

prezzy for put this on shop.com is a place I go when I have someone that I need to get a little prezzy for, putthisonshop.com is a place I go when I have someone I need to get a little prezzy for and I don't have any ideas. And all of a sudden I've got 10 ideas, 10 great ideas. Use the code Vintage Justice for free shipping on almost everything in the store. We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. I'm going deep into your feed here, Cassie. I'm a follower now, and I am really feeling this. As a child, you're both younger than me, but as a child of the 90s, where all you needed to do to be funny was to make some reference to some Caucasian junk culture and then just walk away.

You were speaking my language here in particular. I'm really into this book you found by Betsy Haynes called the great dad disaster. That is great. Oh yes. What happens when you mix dads with dating? Two best friends are about to find out the great dad disaster. And there are four dads in the cover of this book, two best friends are about to find out the great dad disaster. And there are four

dads in the cover of this book. Two best friends, four dads. I like the way this is going. I want to read that book. What a mix up. You did come in hot to this courtroom. I heard you through the thin walls of my chamber. I heard you saying, I thought I was going to win. And you definitely came in with a winning attitude, both in the sense of you're nice and fun to be around, but also in the sense that you thought you were going to crush and destroy your husband. And you tried to get the party started. You tried to get the stomp on E-man party started hard. Talking about how he can't even crop right. Mean. I came into this courtroom saying, E-man, you do not have a case.

You do not have a case. You do not have a case. You do not deserve to be paid. You're not a professional photo editor. I don't care where you went to grad school. You're not charging money for this. There was no contract that was, you know, this is she chose the one that she liked a little bit better.

But then Cassie comes in and says, I chose the one that I liked a little bit better because what he did was bad it was mean it's mean cassie but does that speak to the merits of this case no sorry you don't get you get nothing you man i apologize yes well i mean you wanted me to rule that you can never talk about this again correct cassie that was what you wanted me to rule that you can never talk about this again, correct? Cassie. That was what you wanted me to roll. Yeah, that would be great. Right. He, man, you don't deserve damages because your work was not used.

That was not part of the contract. This was a work made for hire, as we say, and you're not getting credit while very, very mean is also justified. So same thing, work made for hire. You were asked to contribute to an art

project originated by Cassie. Now, if I were someone who is doing work for hire, if I were a Jack Kirby and I was co-creating the Fantastic Four and not getting credit from Stan Lee, you bet I would leave. You bet I would leave that company and go make Darkseid for DC and get some more money. Until they took all your credit too. And then you go back and work for Marvel again. It's a sad story. What are we suggesting here, John? I'm saying you're Stan Lee and E-Man is Jack Kirby.

I'm saying that if you are hired to do a job, as is the case in this case, you were asked to shoot this photo shoot for an art project that Cassie had created and was going to put on her socials. And you don't like the way you're treated by the person who hired you. Don't work for them again. Don't work for them again. I mean, I'm sorry. There's no back pay for a work made for hire. That's rough. You're burned. Don't put your hand on that stove again cassie has a art project you know you have your video games that you're making which are just as valid and just as important and i see no reason why you should be tricked into taking a photograph

that you agree to do out of love and then are repaid only with disdain and cruelty ever again the tide is really turned in this case well you want you won the case cassie you won the case but i do cost zero nothing nothing you win you win i'm just saying that when it comes to these art projects this is your world isn't that right e-man i can't argue with that this social media account on a popular social media website photograph photography website this is definitely an expression of cassie well i'm going to say this is definitely an expression of at cassie j snyder right because this social media account is Cassie's thing. See, Cassie, you tried to spin it away that was a little confusing to me. You said,

all I wanted was a nice photograph of myself. My husband is too terrible to even do that. I'm like, oh, this is a deep thing. This is hard, you know, because this person doesn't feel that they're represented in photo. I feel sympathy there. It's like, I'm still looking for a good photograph of myself. And I thought it was a case of, you know, finding a loved one who you know loves and adores you and trusting that person to take a photo that you're going to love and being sensitive to all of that. But then you erased all that by saying like, no, no, it was just my art project. I wanted him to take a photo of it and he did a bad job. I was like, do you feel that you were

misrepresented in photos? Like not when I take a picture of myself, why can't my husband do better? Like, I get it. It's fine. You deserve to have great photos of yourself. You deserve to have great photos of yourself that you enjoy, that you love. You deserve to have great photos of yourself that you can use for your art projects. And clearly, despite his graduate degree, E-Man can't do it the way you would like it to be done. You shouldn't hire him again. He shouldn't work for you and you shouldn't hire him. You're not employers of each other. You're life partners. You're life partners. You need to find someone who's going to take photos of each other you're life partners you're life partners you need to find someone who's going to take photos of you

that you can and this is not just to lecture I just mean to say you deserve if you need photos of yourself for your feeds and stuff you need someone that you can work with and bounce ideas off of and have fun with and like the outcome if you don't like the outcome of what he's doing then that's

fine that's fine he's not fine. He's not your employee. He's your life partner. Give him some extra time to clean up that dog urine. You know what I mean? Because the truth is that you've seen from early in dating and right up until your birthday, from the gremlin photos to the fake baby photo, you're not satisfied with the work he's putting in. That's okay. Have someone else take the photos. I like those photos. I think they're cool.

I think you did a good job, E-Man. Although you do need a little work for focus. I'm glad that you're focusing on video games now. Jesse's right. I was a little out of focus, a little nervous. But maybe it's nervous because it's a subject, a matter that, you know, the subject matter is someone that you love and and maybe scares you a little this incredible person i've definitely had my constitution has been much higher since since

the start of this relationship it's been yeah strengthened cassie's wonderful it's but you know maybe you're a little intimidated. If I don't get this gremlin picture right, I'm never going to see this person again. At the time of the baby photo, we weren't married yet. We got married shortly after. So you're

relative newlyweds. We're coming up on a year. Two months. Oh, so this is still new. You're still into it. You're still figuring out where the boundaries are in this marriage, when to engage with each other, when to leave each other alone, what stuff is yours, what stuff. I mean, because the truth is, you know, yeah, the only thing you share in marriage is finances

pretty much legally. Even if you keep separate finances legally, probably if you were to break up someday, a judge would say, nope, they're all shared. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's really the only thing you share. I mean, other than one hopes happy time together and one also hopes the largest bed that you can afford, because the truth is, you know, you don't shed your individual identity or

your autonomy when you are married. You don't become the other person's employee. Right. Um, and you don't hold back the other person from the thing that they want to do. And there are certain things that you just can't do together that you might enjoy. And one of them is, uh, working together on art projects of this kind on a Cassie art project, you know, it was best to avoid that in the future. Cassie, I thought it was very thoughtful and sensitive of you when I said, well, how does it make you feel when E-Man says that he feels more critiqued than praised for you to say,

well, I'm kind of worried that I might be shedding off more negativity than positivity sometime. And that happens. There's a lot of negativity that we are taking in all the time, and we need to get it out of our systems. We need to rant and complain and say things to our partners and so forth. But it's very thoughtful of you to be mindful of how much of that burden you put on the person that you love

who's just trying to go to bed and isn't asking for it. You know what I mean? That's also a very valuable thing. I think you both are doing everything right, but I do think it is time to let this one go. I mean, it's time to let this one go, E-Man. I'm sorry that you felt cheated. I appreciate why you felt cheated.

People who have done work for hire art in the past have always been cheated. That's part of doing work for hire. work for hire art in the past have always been cheated. That's part of doing work for hire. In future, don't agree to take a photo unless you are guaranteed credit and a share of proceeds. Just because you're married doesn't mean that you deserve to be exploited creatively. And Cassie, find a, you know, if you want a really good photo of yourself, hire somebody. Hire someone who finished their degree in photography you know what i mean i'm sure that there are tons of other artistic types up there in hitzburg new york who you could be collabing with um and then you know you you either get work

that you like a little bit better or you'd be less inclined to poop on their work on a podcast because you need to maintain a professional relationship with that person in any case uh i find in cassie's favor uh no damages to e-man but e-man you and i shall always know you took this photo and you can see it on the judge john hodgman page at instagram and we'll link to your instagram it's pretty cool this is the sound of a gavel judge john hodgman rules that is all And we'll link to your Instagram. It's pretty cool. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Cassie, how do you feel? I feel all right. There's a lot to reflect on. So hopefully, hopefully this can be the start of a just a new beginning. And we could leave all this this photography business in the in the past. Eman, how do you feel?

A little bit blindsided. I was definitely thinking that things were going to end up differently towards the end there. But despite all that, I still think there's some takeaways in the verdict. And I think good things can come of this experience for sure. Iman, Cassie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Iman, Cassie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. In a moment, we'll have swift justice. First, our thanks to Twitter user at Robbed77, R-O-B-T-77, for naming this week's episode Snap Judgment. You too can name a future episode of Judge John Hodgman. Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. While you're there, hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO. That's where the conversation happens there on Twitter. And you can chat about this episode also on Reddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account. That's

Instagram dot com slash Judge John Hodgman. I really recommend checking out this AMC Gremlin. It is premium. What a slick Gremlin. Yeah. Okay. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Our editor is Valerie Moffitt. Now Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Joel says, my wife doesn't want to go ice fishing. She worries we will end up adrift on an ice flow. I'm not really into ice fishing, but I want us to try it. She regularly sends me news stories about people who end up adrift on ice flows. I don't think she knows what ice fishing is is and I don't think those news stories exist. If there's some version of

ice fishing where people go out on the ocean. She may be thinking of polar bears. I think she's thinking of polar bears jumping from ice flow to ice flow and then getting yeah, that's not how human ice fishing. Oh, maybe Joel's a polar bear.

Oh. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, send it to us. No case is too big or too small. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO to do it. There's a nice little form there. You can send it to us. Send us all your little details. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.