Judge John Hodgman - Sort Reform and The Right Not to Bare Arms: Live at WNYC's Greene Space

Episode Date: November 1, 2012

This week: a very special live edition of Judge John Hodgman from WNYC's Jerome L. Greene Performance Space. Featuring musical sets from Jonathan Coulton!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Tonight, sort reform. Please welcome our litigants, David and Natalie. David and Natalie have a disagreement about laundry. When it's clean, how should it be folded and prepared to be put away? David sorts it into two big piles, his and hers. Natalie prefers to have her clothing sorted by article.

Who is right and who is wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. You may be seated. In my opinion, we're confronted here with something of a situation. Otherwise, I would not have presumed to take up your time. Once again, it concerns the case of David and Natalie. We know we don't want anything extraordinary to happen to them.

We've already agreed on that. No accidents. nothing unusual. The court of Judge John Hodgman was created to demonstrate the futility of individual judgment, and the court must do its work. The court has done all it can, and if a champion defeats the meaning for which the court was designed, then he must lose. I hope you agree with my reasoning. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Do you swear? Please raise your right hands. please raise your right hands.

Don't make me cross. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that all of his clothes are self-cleaning? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? David, Natalie, for an immediate summary judgment, can either of you name the piece of popular culture

that I was referencing as I stood here at the bench for the very first time? A Few Good Men? That is incorrect. Got me. No guess? No guess. Okay. I was quoting John Houseman from the 1975 film

Rollerball. The A Few Good Men of the 70s. Now, can you guess why I chose rollerball, to quote Natalie? I play roller derby. Because you play roller derby. Is that not so? That is correct, sir. I've done my homework, you see.

And David, do you also play roller derby? I adjudicate roller derby. Oh, I see. You are a judge yourself, sir. Yes. There is no also play roller derby? I adjudicate roller derby. Oh, I see. You are a judge yourself, sir. Yes. There is no law in roller derby. Since you are derbyists, I presume you have a roller derby name? Yes, I am Ginger Snap.

Ginger Snap. All roller derbyists, if you do not know, have a pseudonym. Is that not correct? A pseudonym that conveys speed on skates and violence of some kind, right? Or weird puns. Yeah, exactly. Do you have one, referee? I'm referee Hambone. Referee Hambone. So, for example, for me, it would be Judge John Hodgmame.

Not that. Sure. And for Jesse, it would be a sail if messy with the bull you get the thorns. That's hard to put on a uniform. Yeah.

Would that be accurate? Too many letters. That would be a long jersey. And you, let's get... I'm a long man. Your jacket size is what? 32L. Double L, right?

So roller derby is your life, would you say? Yes. All right. Let's get the buzz marketing out of the way. You play in a league called? Gotham Girls Roller Derby. Gotham Girls Roller Derby. Right.

And we are currently number one in the world. Okay. A little braggy, but I'll allow it because I'm afraid you're going to hurt me. All right. So I presume you have some very dirty clothes. The roller derby exacerbates the clothes. Because in roller derby, what you're doing is you're rolling around on a track, right? It's all ladies.

There are men's leagues as well, actually. Traditionally, is it not all women? No, actually it started with co-ed teams. Oh, okay. But in women's roller derby, do you also have the dune buggies and the wolves? No alligator pit, nothing like that. But it's still a rough sport.

Yes. It's a dirty sport. Sometimes. Okay, so you have a lot of bloodstains on your clothes? I do, actually. Really? All right. It's still a rough sport. Yes. It's a dirty sport. Sometimes. Okay. So you have a lot of bloodstains on your clothes? I do, actually. Really? But this is the crux of the matter.

You do not do the laundry, Natalie. You do the laundry, David. Is that correct? I'm sorry. We share the laundry. You share the laundry? Well, you share the clothes. I trust that's right.

I tend to be the initiator of the laundry process more often. Explain to me the nature of the dispute. The nature of the beef is that we have a lot of laundry to do. Please don't say the nature of the beef. There's not a roller derby rink. That's gross. The nature of the dispute is... The nature of the dispute.

We have a lot of laundry to do because we wear three or four different things every day The daytime clothes, the practice clothes I'm like these fine people Right, right, right Who wear the same hair shirt all day every morning Right, right, right Yeah, excuse me Mr. Abney Roller Derby

Do you have some sort of roller derby valet? Just our cat Alright, I apologize I'm interrupting you because it is more fun for me to do that than to listen to you. But go ahead. I'll try to be brief. The process is we get it all done. We have the washer and dryer in our building.

We bring it back to where we'll watch a television program that frequently you appear on. I could buzz market that or leave that. Get to the laundry. Get to the laundry, ham bone. On the sofa, we've got piles and piles of laundry, and by the time I'm there, all I want to do is say, this is hers, this is mine, this is hers, this is mine, this is a dishcloth, this is hers, this is mine.

I've folded it, I've done my job, here's your big pile. So you are doing the laundry. Right. You have folded the laundry. I have folded the laundry. The stuff is folded. Yes. Right? But it is not laundry. I have folded the laundry. The stuff is folded. Yes. Right?

But it is not sorted into individual garment types. Correct. Is that correct? And you do not like that. Is that correct, Natalie? Well, the complaint from him is that the laundry is not put away fast enough. Mm-hmm. If it was put into shirts, pants, and underwear and socks and all that stuff, it would go into the closet faster.

Instead, he gives me a big bucket of like a Dagwood sandwich of all of my different clothes. They're not sorted into type? They are not sorted into type. And if he wants them put away faster, I would... In protest, do you slow walk it? It's like a laundry brownout, you just don't... They end up sitting on a desk in our room. On a desk in your... Or the floor, or the bed, or everywhere but where they belong.

I can only presume that you live in Brooklyn because you're roller derby people. Is that right? Yes. And so how long will it go before Natalie puts her clothes away? There's still clothes there right now from months ago. That's exaggerating. It's a long time. A long time.

Days, days, days. Days, is that true? Natalie, why are you so lazy? His clothes also sit. We have a huge pile of dry cleaning that just sits there forever. This is not a one-sided issue. Would you like to respond?

Sure. I mean, going back to the sorting of the laundry to match what's going to be the order in which they're put away in the drawers, I just feel like that's tantamount to actually putting them away for her. And I've already done the laundry. I've folded it for her. She should be happy. She's playing roller derby.

You're just the ref. She's playing with house money when I've folded the laundry. Is it that you can't tell the difference between different kinds of laundry? You don't know how to sort it? Do you not know the difference between a bra and a pair of knee pads? Sometimes... That example, yes, I would understand the difference. But sometimes there are, I don't know if this is a uniform that she'll need at short notice.

I don't know if it's something that she will practice in. And if she puts it away, she'll know where it is on short notice. Like, oh, I need the away uniform. I need the home uniform. Where is it? What do you think about that argument, Natalie? We used to live in a very tiny apartment as many New Yorkers do.

Until you hit it big in the roller derby circuit. His excuse for not putting stuff into different piles was, we don't have enough room. When I'm folding laundry, I'm doing it on the couch. There's a finite amount of space to make piles um we live

in a nice in a house with a nicer couch that has big space to put more piles yeah i've been inside your house and um i told you i do my homework and um he has never asked me, so how many piles do you want? And it's come out since we have submitted our case. Yes. If you tell me that you solved this problem, I'm going to roll her over and kneecap you. He is insisting that he doesn't know how many piles I want, and it's just not an issue that he wants to deal with. I only want three piles. I want what goes on the top, what goes on the bottom, and what is under my clothes. So you've got three piles.

Do you store your clothing in a pit? Is your clothing a seven-layer dip? Yes, exactly. What does that even mean, What goes on the top? What goes on the bottom? My top. Oh, I see. I misunderstood.

So what goes on your top? What goes on your bottom? Yes. And then what goes, and then what's the third? Underneath it all. Underwear. Underwear.

Unmentionables. Roller derby unmentionables. That we're mentioning. Okay, I understand. That doesn't seem too difficult. If I may, though... Why is that so hard? I believe her prerogative will be to change that system at any point,

and I kind of don't really care. Yeah, you're married. You're right. I feel like I don't need to be inside her actual drawers, not figurative drawers, and that's her area that's not what being married is all about

yeah but that's her her zone how she organizes her clothes she shouldn't have to come back to me and ask me to change the way I'm sorting her clothes

I've folded them I'm done you're like I said before you're playing with housework house money at that point what?

housework house what does that even... I mean, I... What does that mean? If someone hands you, here's your warm folded laundry in a weird order and you didn't have to do any of it,

you're ahead of the game. Was that your... David, was that your if it doesn't fit, you must acquit? Have you been saving that up? Housework, house money? Housework money, I guess.

And how often do you do the laundry, Natalie? I'll do a load at least twice a week. Is that so? No. Your husband says you're alive. How often do you do the laundry? Once and a half a week, I'd say. Please, come on. Once or half a week, I'd say.

Please, come on. Once or twice a week. I don't have a calculator up here. Let's round up. So you're doing it twice a week, and she's doing it twice a week? We do have a lot of laundry. Okay. But is it 50-50, would you say?

Honestly, Natalie, is it 50-50? So my office is on the ground Don't wait for the translation Answer the question What would you say it is? 60-40, in favor of David? There are starting and finishing issues 70-30 I'm going to keep giving him more

80-20 This is turning into a cattle auction, ma'am 60-40, sold, American Fine And how are the other chores? 80-20? This is turning into a cattle auction, ma'am. 60-40, sold, American. Fine. And how are the other chores split up? Who does the dishes? Who polishes the spiked gloves?

Who recharges the taser nunchucks? I do a lot of vacuuming, and she cleans bathrooms more than I do. Everything else gets split. You do a lot of vacuuming? Yeah. I like vacuuming. I don't know why. Do you have obsessive compulsive disorder?

It extends up to the point of sorting socks and underwear. Okay, okay. But would you say stuff is split 50-50? Yeah. Yeah? Except for laundry. And when you do your 40%, do you split it up into tops, bottoms, sour cream, shredded cheese?

He has said that he doesn't want me to do that, so I just make him a big pile, and then I make my three piles. And how long does it take him to—oh, you're making three piles. For me. For you. Because he doesn't want it. Right. Is that very hard to do? It's not actually that hard.

Right. David, what would you like me to do if I were to find in your favor? To order Natalie not to give me a hard time about handing her a stack of laundry. What would you want me to order? You're forbidden to complain. She's got to sort her own clothes. If I sort them, they get sorted. If they don't, they don't.

She just loses the right to pick them up. How long would clothes normally sit around? Oh, days. Don't. Come on. Three days, five days. You understand roller derby is a sport of precision. Yes.

Three to five days? Yes. And you'd like to get that down to? Yeah, I would like for laundry to be put away as soon as it's folded and... When it's still warm. Yeah, when it's still warm and it's still near the drawers, yes. And as soon as it arrives in the room with the drawers, it shouldn't ever just have a pit stop.

And what would you like to get out of this if I were to find in your favor? I would like three piles. You would like mandatory sorting. Yes. I see. And one last question that I've always wanted to ask on the podcast but never had an opportunity to. What's the best way to get a lady's blood out of laundry?

Get the funk out? There's a product actually specialized within the derby community called Get the Funk Out. Within the derby community? I mean, it's a popular product. And I noticed that you answered that right away. I'll take that under advisement. I think I have everything that I need to make my decision. I'm going back to my chambers. I'll be back in a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. So, I guess my first question, David, is it really so hard? I mean, the gay community has been sorting tops from bottoms for years. hard. I mean, the gay community has been sorting tops from bottoms for

years. It's harder when you're feeling like a blackjack dealer with all these piles when I really just want to sit back and relax while I'm folding laundry instead of having to crawl across to make all these piles.

And I'm doing the laundry. It doesn't get done exactly right. I'm doing it a little more often. That's enough. Leave me alone. Natalie, this guy is already skating backwards on your behalf. Why do you need him to sort your laundry, too? If he has a problem with the line in which things are done, if he has issues with the

laundry sitting in the bedroom and I can give him a way to help me help him to get it in the closet faster? I don't... David, is your whole life like an episode of that show Footballer's Wives? You're the wife, by the way. I suppose we were too busy practicing to get to watch that one. How are you feeling about your chances in the case? I liked them on paper before the last ten minutes transpired, so I'm feeling less strong about it than I did before we walked out here.

Natalie, how about you? You think you're going to skate to a big finish? You know, I don't like being persecuted like this. I don't like being brought before a judge. Should I interpret this as a threat? I appreciate that my husband does laundry at all. By the way, you may have the advantage on

skates, but here on land... I leave it up to the all-knowing judge. Okay, very well. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. You may be seated. Thank you, everyone, for getting up and sitting down and getting up and sitting down. We have sound effects that will do that for you most of the time. I've considered this very carefully.

David, I sympathize with you, because doing your wife's or girlfriend's laundry is terrifying unto itself, because there are a lot of different fabrics at work and things that can be easily ruined and punishment that is then meted out, which is terrible. I still am haunted by a shirt that I destroyed of my own wife's by actually putting it through the wash one time. And I had a little bit of a traumatic moment back there as I

relived it. You may have heard the screaming. And it is even more terrifying when your wife is a roller derby star and there is the constant threat of incipient violence. Now, one solution, obviously, would be to send your laundry out. And what you would reasonably expect if you sent your laundry out to a cleaner who did pound laundry, which for those of you who are not listening in New York City, we're very lazy. We often send our laundry out to other humans to return to us in a folded state and in a

sorted state. Sordid and sorted, I should specify. That is a reasonable expectation, but that is an indulgence. Perhaps you do not have that kind of money. After all, roller derby is nothing but a non-profit charity. It's literally for at-risk youth. Now, I couldn't help but overhear

from the chambers Ginger Snap saying that all she wants to do is to help David help her by encouraging him to do the work for her. Yes. And I am sympathetic to that point of view, too, honestly, because I have done quite a bit of laundry in my time, and I have never, ever, ever done what you do, which is fold stuff willy-nilly and put it in a weird,

as you say, a Dagwood sandwich of laundry. Just like T-shirt, underwear, jeans, two T-shirts, three underwear, jeans. Like, that goes against all reason. That's like, I am not an obsessive compulsor vacuum or like you, sir, but I think that I would probably pull all my eyebrows out before I allowed that to happen because it just feels so weird to me. But that said, that is your thing. And as you said yourself, Natalie, it is not that hard once that laundry is folded to sort it out. I would naturally be sympathetic to an active roller derby player, certainly over a ref. Never mind, maybe a substitute ref.

But if there's one thing that I cannot stand, it is the slow walking of laundry in protest. Madam, roller derby is not about passive aggression. It is about active aggression. And therefore, I must only find in the party of David, David, you do not need to sort the laundry, even though it is insane what you are doing. Natalie, you do need to sort the laundry, and it needs to be put away within 24, count them, 24 hours.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. Now get the gunk out. Natalie, this is quite a stern rebuke. How are you feeling right now? Devastated. David, how about you? It looked like it was going to go the other way for a second. It did, and I still feel this thing of having my technique labeled as insane.

But I'm willing to live with that. No one else does that. No one else does that. It's going to mean a cleaner bedroom. I'm happy about that. David, I want you to know that if you run into any more labor problems, slowdowns, strikes, brownouts, I'm available as a Pinkerton on the side. David, Natalie, thank you for joining us on Judge John Hodgman Thanks for having us

Now, you know, normally I would go into my chambers and we would review the docket there. And I did bring my portable chambers, which was just actually an oversized portable toilet. But someone outside in New York City tipped it over and filled it with cement. So I guess we're just going to have to do it out here in the light of day. John, we do have some cases here on the docket. Let's start with the first one. This is from Arthur. My wife and I recently played a game of 20 questions.

One of the questions I asked was, is the thing in question a monster? To which he replied, no. I was unable to guess the person slash place slash thing in question, which turned out to be Gossamer, the orange hairy creature from Looney Tunes. Upon further questioning, it appears... That is a monster. That is a monster. Just let's stipulate to that.

It appears that my wife believes that all monsters are not animals. I believe that monsters are obviously animals. Monsters are a subset of a kingdom, not a separate kingdom unto themselves. My wife is a children's librarian and may have already circulated this falsehood to the youth of our community. I seek an appropriate order regarding the dissemination of

factual monster information. So, is Gossamer a monster? Is a monster a type of animal? And if they are a type of animal, And if they are a type of animal, does that make them a subset of the kingdom of animals, or do they have their own kingdom?

Thank you, Arthur. There is a lot to consider. I'm just glad someone's finally standing up to those children's librarians. Well, I'm actually concerned a little bit that Arthur's wife would be asked, is the thing a monster? And she would say, no. I'm concerned that she may have been having a stroke or is suffering some severe brain confusion,

as there is no question whatsoever that Gossamer is a monster. So let's order that right away. Now, is a monster an animal? Well, I think yes, absolutely. I checked the Dungeons & Dragons monster manual before I came over, and the only monster that I could find in there that might be described as not an animal would be a gelatinous cube. Because I think that is technically a colloid.

But the thing about 20 questions is, and this speaks, I think, to a case that I recently heard in the pages of the New York Times magazine, where a husband was playing 20 questions with his wife and daughter, and the daughter asked if the subject of 20 questions was alive, and the wife said yes, and neither of them could guess it, and it turned out that she was referring to a river. When asked what she was talking about,

she spoke that a river supports life and is, in a sense, alive in the world because it is in constant motion. And furthermore, that she is not religious, but she is spiritual. Yes, so exactly so. 20 questions is no place for poetry. It is a place for clear answers to a very specific number of questions. place for clear answers to a very specific number of questions. And you must not hide what you are trying to, you must not hide the object by answering poetically. You must give the best

common sense answer you can give, even if you are not entirely sure of what exactly Gossamer is. Is he a pile of hair? Does he have organs? What is his life cycle? We don't know that he's not a river. And I think obviously the best scenario, the best common sense answer in this case is simply by looking at Gossamer. This is the big orange hairy monster that wears tennis shoes all the time, like an animal. Thus Gossamer is an animal, and all monsters are animals. That is all. We do actually have two past guests on the Judge John Hodgman podcast here in the audience. Krista and Anna. Krista and Anna, are you here somewhere?

There they are. Oh, here they come. I thought we might invite them up and see how they're doing. People are always asking me to check in on how the rulings went and how things are going along. And I really don't care, but since they're here... Now, if I remember correctly, which one of you is Kristen?

Krista. Excuse me, Krista. See, I don't care. That's fine. Nice to hear you again, Krista. And Anna. And your sisters from Missouri. That's fine. Nice to hear you again, Krista and Anna. And your sisters from Missouri. Yeah. Right? And one of you wanted to become a comedian after college or changed your mind.

You were going to study library science. That would be me. Yeah. No, I know. When I look at the two of you, I wonder which one of these two young women was going to study library science, but instead decided to become a comedian. And which one looked down her nose at the other one and said, you should not do that. I'm going to go comedian, red pants, look down the nose, sensible sweater. Am I right? Look down the nose, sensible sweater.

Am I right? And I ordered you to follow your dreams against the advice of your sister and probably everyone else in your world and go to some place where there was slash is comedy that was not St. Louis and pursue that for a period of time. Yes. Okay, now tell me what happened.

Okay. Two weeks after graduation, I moved to New York, and I had an internship in social media for a television network. That is hilarious. Ask her what network. That is not exactly comedy. No. But it was in television, and it was in New York.

All right. Those were two things that I did not have in Columbia, Missouri. And what did you think? I enjoyed it, but it ended up not resulting in a job, and now I work in publishing. That's probably the worst possible outcome. It might be. Move the microphone a little bit closer and say that one more time, because I really am hoping that I misheard you.

You did not get a job in television. I did not. And now you're working in? Now I'm working in publishing. Oh my god. The poor dear. Krista, I'm so sorry. I told you so. Now hold on. Wait a minute. It's not that simple. What kind of publishing are you working in? Well, it's permissions and licensing, so it's the most boring kind of publishing I think that exists. For magazines or books?

For magazines? I work on the magazine newspaper side. For magazines or books? For magazines? I work on the magazine newspaper side. Adults or all ages? All ages. Well, at least there's a future in it. What happened to your comedy dreams? I'm going to comedy shows and writing in my free time and still applying for jobs in my...

Well, you understand that there is no applying for jobs in comedy, right? I'm trying to create my own job as well. You are trying to pursue comedy. And did you want to... Please refresh my memory. Did you primarily want to perform or did you want to write comedy? I'd rather be a writer. You'd rather be a writer, okay. And the way to do memory, did you primarily want to perform or did you want to write comedy? I'd rather be a writer. You'd rather be a writer.

Okay. And the way to do that, of course, is to perform and get noticed and ask to collaborate on things. So what can you tell me about your progress in that regard? I have not been performing. Oh, boy. I've only been witnessing. I've gone to a lot of comedy shows. Well, this is not, how long, and how long has it been?

I've been here since the end of May. Okay. So all summer long. Mm-hmm. Yeah, all right. I've read a lot of magazines, just for the record. Krista, how do you assess your sister's performance?

I think she's actually doing pretty well. Mm-hmm. Not just because I get to come stay with her for free in New York whenever I feel like it. But, yeah, I mean, when we talk, I am trying to encourage her to keep doing stuff

and to go perform stand-up and to go to shows and that kind of thing. Do you think that she is going to perform stand-up, that she's going to perform sketch or improv, that she's actually going to get out there and do it? Or is your instinct that she's just going to hide behind her permissions in marketing a plush job? I think she will go perform. You think so? Yes. Now, when we were on the podcast, I asked you to come up with a monologue. I remember.

Do you have any material prepared for tonight? I don't. I thought about it on the train over and did not prepare anything specifically for tonight. I am ordering you to come up with something. Why don't we come back after the second trial

and we'll see what you come up with. Do you have a preferred genre? Comedy. I love... I'll do my best. I love... I personally love permissions and licensing, Dominic.

If you have anything there. I'll work on it. But you know, I am this close to finding you in contempt of court. Because I ordered you to do something, and you're just getting started. So I need you to, you're now on stage in New York City. That's true. This is your chance. This is true.

All right. So to inspire you, we have someone here to perform, not comedy, but music. A very dear friend of mine. There's a new segment to the program that I'm calling May It Please the Court, where I bring on musicians and entertainers that I like, so I don't have to talk to you people anymore. Now, thank you, Anna and Krista, and now I would like to welcome our musical guest for the evening, my friend and yours, Mr. Jonathan Colton. Thank you. Hello. skin, pray for evenings in, hold their hands in the street when you walk them off

to school box too full to shut cardboard paper cut bleeding edge of a picture of your parents when they were cool so much to say, I forget to start, there goes day, fading as it passes

Forget the gray, let it fall apart It's okay, I like you in glasses Shovels in the sand, I played a wedding band A drowning princess and a tangle of towels on the floor. An old familiar ache, the little pills we take, the thoughtless kindness of a coffee cup waiting by the door. So much to say, I forget to start There goes a day fading as it passes Forget the gray, let it fall apart It's okay, it's on the board

Someone's been double booking I've got time How is your next week looking? The house shifts into place A little breathing space The radiators

and the floorboards will argue while we sleep There's water in the walls The stairs make waterfalls We'll be right back. There goes the day fading as it passes Forget the gray, let it fall apart So much to say, I forget to start There goes the day fading as it passes Forget the gray, let it fall apart It's okay, I like you in glasses Thank you. Jonathan Coulton, ladies and gentlemen. I like you in glasses. Woo!

Thank you. Jonathan Coulton, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks. Hey, it's me, Bailiff Jesse. Thank you. fiction, nonfiction, and periodicals. Audible suggests that Judge John listeners might enjoy I Am America and So Can You by Stephen Colbert or Judge John Hodgman's own book, That Is All. For a free audiobook of your choice and a free 30-day trial membership, go to audiblepodcast.com slash judgejohn. Our next case, the right not to bear arms. Please welcome our litigants, Peter and Barbara. Thank you.

Peter and Barbara bring their case involving parenting and medicine to our court. Barbara recently struck a bargain with their daughter at the doctor's office. If she would take her flu shot without crying, Mom and Dad would get their flu shots, too. Peter wasn't there to weigh in on the deal and refuses to honor it. Did Barbara have the right to make this bargain? And should Peter comply? Only one man can decide. Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. You may be seated.

Why should Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse take people away and judge them? What right have they? They do it for our good. But I don't see why it has to happen. I'd sooner stay as I am. And he smiled. You can't understand now, but you will understand it when it happens. It's, he shook his head. happens it's he shook his head I can't describe it Jack I said I've been thinking he waited without much interest of what you said about the wonderful things that men made before the court of Judge John Hodgman that was nonsense he said and turning he walked on to the village. I watched him for a time, and then feeling very much alone, made my way to the green space

in New York City. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge

John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that, thanks to his team of brilliant personal physicians, he's been rendered immune to over 400 diseases, including influenza, rubella, and the galloping dropsy? I do. I do.

I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? First of all, hello, Peter and Barbara. Hello. For an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you name the piece of culture that I was referencing just a few moments ago?

Can you? I could take a wild stab in the dark. All right. I'd like to hear it. He read it very seriously, but I definitely think that was Grumpy Old Man. We always get that one. I want to see your face. You're absolutely right.

No. No. No, that was a quote from the novel The White Mountains by John Christopher, the first in his series about the tripods. This is an English science fiction novel for adolescents. Yeah, you knew it, didn't you, Peter? I did. You knew, but you had the memory erased because of the cap that the tripods made you wear.

Yeah. This is a novel from the... Is this about some sort of space race of camera equipment? Yeah. No, it is a novel about a near future dystopia after society has been destroyed by a mysterious race of giant mechanical tripods.

People live in sort of an agrarian utopia and whenever a child reaches a certain age, they are taken away by the tripods and they have a cap put onto their head

that underneath their hair that then stops them from ever questioning authority in their lives. Essentially, it's a story about the pressure to conform in a society even when the procedure that is done to you is itself questionable. Can you imagine what this might be a metaphor for? Yes. The answer is roller derby.

Barbara, what's going on in your house? You have a daughter, is that correct? We have three. You have three daughters? Oh, okay. The daughter in question here. Where do you live? In Queens.

In Queens? Okay. Nice. The daughter in question here. Where do you live? In Queens. In Queens? Okay. Nice. May I presume that your daughter is named Astoria? No, we moved to Queens before it was hip to be in Queens, so her name's Sophia. Oh, I was going to say you don't have to name your daughter. I'll just refer to her as Influenza, but that's fine.

I was going to guess Daryl Strawberry. That was a close second. If you had said Brooklyn, I was ready to go with Stella Von Redhook. But her name is Sophia Astoria, and she is and what age is she? She's seven.

Okay, and you took her to the doctor, and she did not want to have— well, why don't you tell me what happened next? Well, she can get hysterical very easily. We actually—one of our nicknames for her is Meryl Streep. And she takes after Peter. Because she does an amazing Julia Child impersonation. With the accent and everything. No, but actually when she turned five, I said,

congratulations, you'll never have to get a shot ever again, forgetting about things like flu shots, which are not necessarily mandatory. But the pediatrician actually was my pediatrician and all of my seven brothers and sisters' pediatrician. So we both actually trust him. Whatever he says, we do. So when I took the kids for their back-to-school checkups, he said flu shots. I raised an eyebrow.

He said, okay, if you want her to be sick for three or four weeks. Which eyebrow? The left. It's much more sardonic than the right. Also, quick question. Quick question about this pediatrician that you trust to do whatever he says. Does he have three legs?

Yes. And he never made any of us wear a cap. So you raised an eyebrow, but you said fine. But Sophia Astoria saw through the medical quackery and said no way. Right. And then a promise was made. Right.

She started to get hysterical, so I said, well, if you have to get this shot, the doctor's saying you have to, then Dad and I will go get our flu shots. And, Peter, you're Dad. Yeah, I'm told. And were you present at the time this promise was made? No, I was working. Oh, okay. And where do you work?

At the mustache factory? Yeah. I'm doing anything I can to curry favor with the court, so I grew this out. Your stash bribe is accepted. Thank you. You were not present when this promise was made. And you made this promise because your daughter

is in charge of your family? Is that correct, Barbara? I think we try to treat the kids as if they're rational people. Okay, first mistake. If I could use a metaphor, it's a lot like treating, say, Daryl Straubing like he's a rational person. I would go so far as to say in this situation, you are Bugs Bunny and your children are all Gossamer. Roller derby. It definitely feels that way.

So I apologize. So you try to treat your children as rational people. And Peter, you know, is implicit in that. It's not like something I came up with on my own.

No, no, no. I understand. I thought that was my idea. Probably, yeah. So what is your problem, Peter, with this promise that was made? Well, three-point

argument here. All right. Could I have an Amstel Light, please? We only have Stella. I'll take it. First is that I feel this violates

my bodily rights and that in much the same way that I would never try to impose my wills on Barbara's body, she should not

impose hers on me. How many children do you have? I'm sorry. Okay, your bodily rights is argument number one. Number two is the lack of success in the flu vaccines. And I made a little poster here to demonstrate.

Bailiff Jesse, would you please hold up this poster? So I'm just going to say this is a beautifully designed poster that Peter brought. And he writes at the top, it says, for those of you who are not watching this and listening to it, it says, Efficiency, flu vaccines, 1936 to 2011. The percentage you give is? 59%. 59%.

And then flu missed vaccine trials. Is this the nasal flu vaccine? That's the nasal, yeah. The live virus, right? Okay. And the percentage of efficiency you give is? 23.7 to 10.9%. Okay, so you don't think that that's very good.

Do you know that 10.9% is smaller than 23.9%? I couldn't hear. Okay, thank you. You may have your... I wrote the two first and then got very upset at myself and I was trying to figure out how to save the poster board because I only wanted to put 10.9. In a lot of ways, this would have benefited from planning.

This poster board. The anger implicit in this poster is clear. Yeah, the anger implicit in this poster is clear. You may have your sign back. Are you ready to move on to your third point of argument? I'm ready. I have the backing documents for these if you need them. Oh, I'm certain that you do. Okay, okay.

Is there a third point? You said that you had a three-point argument. Third point is that there are lots of harmful chemicals within vaccines that are used as agitants. Oh. You have another poster. I have another poster that lists... All right. Thank you, Bailiff.

Present in different... You're sort of welcome. All right, so this poster... This poster lists the different things. And increasingly agitated handwriting.