Judge John Hodgman - Spare the Hodg, Spoil the Child

Episode Date: May 16, 2012

Gail believes she and her nephew Ray are similarly sensitive kindred spirits. As a loving aunt, she thinks she should be able to comfort Ray when he's upset, even over rule-breaking, and help him handle his feelings. Her sister Aimee believes Gail is unnecessarily coddling Ray and encouraging him to become an overly emotional child. Who is right? Only Judge John Hodgman can decide!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, spare the hodge, spoil the child. Gail brings the case against her sister, Amy. Gail loves being the auntie to Amy's three-year-old son, Ray. She and her sister live several states apart, but visit each other every few months. Gail believes that she and her nephew are kindred spirits, sensitive souls living in a harsh world. As a loving aunt, she thinks she should be able to comfort Ray when he's upset, even over rule-breaking, and help him handle his feelings. Amy believes Gail is unnecessarily coddling Ray and encouraging him to become an overly emotional child. Who is right? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman

enters the courtroom. Because you hated knowledge and had nothing to do with the fear of Hodgman, because you wouldn't take my advice and brushed aside all my offers to train you, well, you've made your bed. Now lie in it. You wanted your own way. Now, how do you like it? Don't you see what happens, you simpletons, you idiots? Carelessness kills. Complacency is murder. First, pay attention to me, and then relax.. Now you're in good hands. Bailiff Jesse, please swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you God or whatever. Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he was literally a robot until he reached college and became a real man. Yes, I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman. Thank you very much, Bailiff Jesse.

Hello, Gail. Hello, Amy. For an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can one of you name the origin of the quote that i just paraphrased no uh it's very familiar but it's probably not the best little whorehouse in texas no it is not it is the book of proverbs from the bible specifically you know i was about to say that because you sound exactly like my rabbi. Too late, Jezebel! She should know that one.

Specifically, the wisdom of Solomon. Oh. I blasphemed a little in it because I said fear of Hodgman instead of fear of God. But otherwise, that came directly off of an internet Bible that I found. You might chop Ray in half. Yeah, well, you know that's going to happen, right? You are the first to win to come fighting over a child. I am going to cut this baby in half.

Oh, I hope I get the good half. Oh, that's how I know you're not the mother. I just made the joke faster than my sister could. She would have said the same one. This is the wisdom of Solomon. The real mother wouldn't care what half she got, good or bad.

All right. Which one of you jokers is which? Amy, you speak. Say hello. I'm Amy. I'm the mother of Ray. You're the biological mother of Ray, who is three years old. And Gail, you are the aunt or aunt to this child.

Is that correct? That's correct. And where do you live? I live in the western suburbs of Chicago. Okay. And do you say aunt or aunt? Well, I say auntie because we already have an Aunt Gail in the family. Okay, auntie.

But I say aunt because we're from Colorado. Right. So if I understand this correctly, Gail, you are Ray's auntie. He is a three-year-old child. You comfort him when he cries. And your sister, Amy, sister, right?

Biological sister, not sisters-in-law? Right. Your sister, Amy, says, don't do that. Don't comfort my child and give him no affection whatsoever. And Gail, you have to tell me, why should I ever rule in favor of an aunt instead of a mother when it comes to her own son? Explain. Okay, because I believe that Ray and I are much alike personality-wise. And Amy is very hard-boiled, full-on force, does not experience a lot of fear or second-guessing or anxiety, which is lovely and great and awesome.

But she often may not understand that in a scary situation, and I don't mean all the time. I respect her wishes when it comes to putting him to bed or eating food or if he wants to throw a toy at her head. But in a case where I think he's really sad. She doesn't want to put her child to better feed him food because it softens him up is that what you're saying yes yes she wants him to forage in the backyard which i'm okay with because you know that's an important

skill all right i get it i get it you're trying to infect your nephew with your own fear of life can you give me some specific examples of a situation where give me one specific example where you have provided comfort to ray and your sister has said, please don't do that. We were, all of us were in Madison, Wisconsin, which none of us are from. And we were driving to meet her in-laws for dinner at a restaurant. So we were in a strange rental car in a strange place. And it was dark, meeting somewhat strange people. And what kind of rental car was it?

It was like an SUV. It was big because the whole family was there. But do you remember the maker model? No, Amy might, though. Amy, do you remember what it was? Like a Dodge something American gas guzzling thing. I appreciate your efforts to not buzz market it. Amy has a lot of luggage, so they needed a big car.

Are you talking metaphorically? No, really. Ray's best stuffed friend, Sheepy. No, his name is Harry, actually harry the sheep okay he's a sheep no no no i understand he was is there a dispute over what over what this is called what is what does ray call this thing harry harry okay yeah Sheepy, also known as Sheepy for purposes of podcasting. He was known as Sheepy until Ray was old enough to name him himself because he got him as a newborn. Okay. So Harry the stuffed sheep. Yes, was left back at the, I think it was like a step up from Residence Inn Hotel that we were staying at.

Okay. That we got for really cheap. Thank you for anti-buzz marketing Residence Inn as well. Yes. I don't think it was. Oh, the toaster exploded. I wouldn't go there. No, no, no, but they were nice about it.

Okay, order, order, order, order. If I find out the two of you have been hired by major ad agencies to do opposition marketing against Dodge and Residence Inn. All I was trying to do was to ask you what kind of car were you driving? So you would say whatever you would say,

like a Dodge Caravan. And I would go, oh, of course those are known to be haunted. Because you were making it out like it was creepy that you were in Madison. Do you see what I'm saying? Oh, but it was because, well, it was a funeral. Well, yes. Okay.

Important context. So. Right. Let me just break it down. Let me just break it down. Stop. Okay. Amy, where do you live?

Denver, Colorado. Okay. In Colorado. Okay. And so you guys all went to Madison? Okay, in Colorado. And so you guys all went to Madison? Well, Madison, Wisconsin is where all of my in-laws are at. My husband's sister and her family and my mother and father-in-law and my father-in-law passed suddenly. Ray and the rest of the family, we go out to Madison a couple times a year. So he is familiar with the town. He's familiar with air travel um with cars um you know rental cars all of that um so the only one who's terrified of madison is gail so you're on this terrifying trip to madison wisconsin a place where your nephew has been

before but it is a emotionally laden time because uh his because his grandfather had passed away. Do I know? Yeah, grandfather has to be, right? I'm doing the family tree correctly. Okay, good. Yes. And so describe what happens. Ray looks around the car and realizes that Harry the Sheep has been left back at the hotel and asks, where's Harry?

And we're like, well, he's back at the hotel and asks where's harry and we're like well he's back at the hotel and ray became upset and wanted his harry which is what he was saying and i you know feeling his pain because i all my sister did not have a lovey growing up i had a lovey named doggy daddy um and when i would be in emotionally upsetting situations, I would be sad if I did not have him. So I held his hand and told him it would be okay and said soothing words. I didn't say that we must go back to the hotel to get Harry, you know, nothing like that. Just helping him get through his feelings of not having his stuffed sheep with him. Amy, what's wrong with that?

Well, I think that is Gail's perception of what was going on. And Gail doesn't get to see Ray as often. I'm a stay-at-home mom now. I'm a lawyer by trade, but I am a stay-at-home mom, so I spend 24-7. And it is a rule that Harry doesn't go on errands. He doesn't go in the car. The only time he's ever in the car is if we're driving somewhere long where he's going to end up taking a nap somewhere like down to granny's or spin the night or

something else harry stays at home where he's safe that is a rule so when ray went where's harry um i said well he's back at the hotel room where he's safe and then he started having a three-year-old tantrum um ray was in his car seat she immediately starts just kind of getting all panicky and like kind of like shaking. And she's like hovers over him saying and petting him. It's okay, Ray. It's okay. Harry's okay. It's okay.

It's okay. Like literally like compulsively and then like literally like in his face. And guess what he does? Ray, you can guess for me. He starts crying harder. And he starts getting more and more upset. And that's when I say, Gail, leave Ray alone. Just let him cry it out.

And then Gail just, you could tell she was a little bit verklempt about it. But she sat back and just held his hand. And two minutes later, he was completely over it. But it's things like that where I think she's kind of imprinting her own anxiety upon him and he is a lot like Gail he is much more sensitive than I am I am not a sensitive person at all my concern is that he is acting like a normal three-year-old and when and yes he does cry and yes he is generally upset he's not getting his way and that's really what it's about because as a mother you know that cry and as a father you know that cry where it's like oh heck he might have just lost a limb or something really bad has happened you know this or that you know because

if he's crying because he lost harry and he's within the rules i will go find harry for him that's understandable but if he's crying like in the grocery store because he can't have a candy bar i'm not going to be there and be like, it's okay, Ray. Ray, it's okay. I mean, the world sucks. If he can't handle Harry not being in the car, what the heck is he going to do in kindergarten when somebody takes a sandwich? Train up a child

in the way that he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Thank you, Rabbi. King Solomon. From the internet. You do not want your child to be carrying around Harry the sheepy all the time. Is that the reason? You don't want him to be a grown-up carrying around a lovey, is that correct?

Oh, absolutely. I don't want him to be a five-year-old carrying around a lovey. You hate that sheepy. No, no, I actually like Harry quite a bit. He's a little sweet pea, but it's for a certain time and place. You know, if he has that for sleeping, if he has that when he's, you know,

watching his cartoon he gets once a day, that's all fine. But no, he's not going to be dragging it around outside. You know, I don't want him to be heckled when he's five years older. God forbid that weird kid at nine who brings his lovey over for a sleepover. You know what I mean? He has to learn how to deal with his own emotions in a constructive way. That's my thought process, but my sister is correct in some ways that I am not as sensitive as certainly as Gail and probably even, you know, I believe Ray is more sensitive than me, but I don't know if it goes to the length that Gail sees in it.

Well, now, now, now, this is getting dangerously close to compromise before I've even had a chance to tell one of you that you're wrong. You heard your sister's description of how you treated Ray and of Ray's behavior and of your behavior, very much at odds with your description. Who is right? I am correct, and I have various pieces of evidence I would like to enter. Do you have video? Unfortunately not, but I do know I never took my seatbelt off, so I couldn't have hovered in his face. Because as we know, we were in a giant U.S. gas guzzler, so I was on the other side of the car. As we know, we were in a giant U.S. gas guzzler, so I was on the other side of the car.

And Amy was in the front seat, and so she wouldn't have had a good view of what was going on anyway. So I certainly was not in his face patting him all over. I was holding his hand. Also, it is not a hard and fast rule that sheepy or hairy is not allowed in the car. And I have a picture, which I have submitted, showing Harry in the car. And I also have a chat conversation where she describes packing up Harry for a trip to Chuck E. Cheese, which would certainly not be a long trip. Let me look at this. Let me look at this evidence. I see a picture of a baby in a car holding a bottle.

Yep. Yep. Okay. And the baby's eyes have been blocked by a disfiguring black bar in order to protect him from internet predators. And I do not see, I see a blankie, but I do not see a sheepy. Where do I see the sheepie here? The blankie is Harry the sheep.

What? He's half sheep, half blanket, or he got rolled over by something. I don't know. A chimera blankie? A chimera sheep blankie? Yes. I don't know what that is. What are you doing to protect Harry from creepers?

Good question. Amy was not concerned aboutry's well-being at all i would just like to say okay yeah that's because harry is a blanket that has a sheep head um you will notice in the picture that ray is one years old he still has a bottle he might be under one years old we're talking about disciplining and coddling a three-year-old and gail and this is one of the issues i take with gail very strongly since she doesn't see ray very much she still thinks of him as a baby he's not a baby anymore he's a young boy now you know talking smart manipulating doing all of these things you know becoming a real person and just the fact that she brings up evidence of Harry in the car as a baby, she doesn't even have the perspective of raising a toddler and the structure that's required. She just wants to pet him like a little baby.

I don't think that's how you pronounce baby. Can we keep mocking tones out of the courtroom? I think we should increase the Mockingtones. I'm having a blast. I think that may be the name of Bailiff Jesse's new doo-wop group, the Mockingtones. Amy, are you the younger sister or the older sister? Younger, but I'm taller. Gail's four foot ten.

Just as long as you can turn it into a competition i'm fine just as long as you can turn my simple question into an anxious competition between sisters that's fine with me that's all i that's all i require so you're younger but taller yes uh how were you raised would you say you, I mean, you talked about coddling and disciplining a three-year-old. Well, Gail and I had a very rough and tumble childhood. We're two years apart, and we grew up very, very close. We slept in the same bed forever. We still actually sleep in the same bed when we visit half of the time, which our husbands thoroughly enjoy.

actually sleep in the same bed when we visit half of the time, which our husbands thoroughly enjoy. And no, we came from a remarkably strict household. And my sister is very sensitive. She can become anxious very easily. She was a very anxious child. I took care of her a lot, in a lot of ways. She took care of me in different ways. No, I protected her. I don't to know the the specifics of how you protected her because that i think you might mean that very specifically and i mean to say uh where does what is the difference between coddling which has a clearly negative connotation and comforting you know that's a really interesting point i think the cod coddling is just like an affirmation of your sadness and anxiety, where comforting is stating, I see that you're upset.

Here is a way to solve it to make you feel better. What's the difference between a baby and a baby? What's the difference between a baby and a baby? Okay. A baby is something that just needs to be held and snuggled and loved, and I'll just take care of you. Here's some pudding. And a baby, a normal baby,

is something that's growing up and going to become a man one day. Can I say that Amy loved pudding when she was growing up and that for Christmas she would get this massive can from Sam's and would not share it at all? No, that would be coddling you. But I'm going to say this right now. If you say that what you loved was

butterscotch pudding, I'm hanging up this podcast. No no it was chocolate okay then we can go on then we can go on you're this is a delicate situation because you're your mom you're the boss comforting uh what what would you have had... Oh, how do I get at what I want to say here? I'm just going to talk about it. All right. You're right. Your son is not a baby, right?

But he's three years old. Mm-hmm. Do you think that he might, since you were on your way to his grandfather's funeral, might have been upset about things beyond leaving Sheepy slash Harry back at the terrible hotel. Well, it was on its way to dinner the night before the funeral, but still that funeral air was there. So I do think because he is sensitive, I also think even more than the funeral,

because being three, you know, he loves his grandpa, of course, but him living in Wisconsin, him being three, it wouldn't be the same as, you know, he loves his grandpa, of course, but him living in Wisconsin, him being three there, it wouldn't be the same as, you know, if he had passed when Ray was 12. No, it probably is a lot harder. At three? Of course. Because he does not understand what is happening. And is not able to process what is going on.

And doesn't even appreciate how bad he should feel. Yeah, that's true. So I don't work. No, it worked real good. And I just want you to consider the possibility that, and he knows that people around him feel bad. And I would just ask you to consider the possibility that whatever your sister was doing to comfort him, whether you appreciate it or not, that the intensity of the emotion he was feeling might not be because she was offering him the coddling. Do you know what I'm saying? It wasn't that he was amping up a tantrum necessarily. I wasn't there, but I'm just asking you to consider the possibility that he wasn't amping up a tantrum because she offered him comfort. But he might be expressing emotions that are very intense that were just maybe unlocked by the comfort that she was offering. Is that possible?

Yeah, no, I definitely think that because he is sensitive. He's very intuitive. That is true. Um, that, that is true. Um, I still stand by that. The coddling still from my perception and from being with him every day seemed to get him going more now, perhaps that was a positive thing that let him let out that emotion. And I will absolutely defer because you're a mom and I will defer to your perception on that.

So let's just stipulate that, that that's what it is then. Okay. Is there a problem with him being sensitive? No. Well, there's not. For the way he is right now, you know, he's a watcher before he gets in. But once he's comfortable, he's all the way out there. I don't mind him being sensitive at all. But I am just because our family is very connected emotionally. Like we can tell, you know, states apart if somebody is upset, this or that. So if he is feeling sensitive and somebody else is feeling sensitive around him, like the connection he has with Gail, I do think it amplifies. And I don't care for that because I don't want to see him get all worked up.

I also don't want him to feel validated in getting overly emotional. Okay. What do you mean you can tell from states away that things, what does that mean? She thinks we're psychic, but we're not. Except for Gail says that too. It could be, you know, I'm not going to name whatever it is, but we have dreams about what's going on in other people's lives. It runs in the female side of our family. And it can also just be simply that you're more observant about the people that you know. So when you talk to them on the phone or you chat with them on IM, you can pick up a change in behavior so you can figure out that they're, you know, maybe a little bit off or sad or anxious. It can be any combination of all, but we're definitely in tune to each other.

My sister and I are very close. Okay. Gail. Even though we're very different. Okay. Gail, how would you describe your psychic powers? Well, I would like to first stipulate that I do not have them, but as they have been described to me, I get upset whenever

anyone else is upset. Amy tells a story of the time where I started frantically calling and IMing to make sure Ray was okay right as he was having the world's most massive meltdown. And I was in Chicago and they were in Colorado. But I say that was just, you know, coincidence. So you just had a moment of the shining. Like something's wrong. Right. Ray's having a tantrum.

Sheepies. Sheepies on top of that exploding toaster. Toaster. Right. That would have been a disaster actually. And then I would like to point out that Ray had reason to be worried about

Sheepy being back at the hotel because we actually left him behind after we checked out and had to rush back from the mustard museum to rescue him. So he had legitimate fears of, of, you know, poor Sheepy, Harry being abandoned. I think fears of, you know, poor sheepy Harry being abandoned, I think. You guys accidentally left Harry the sheepy in the terrible hotel while you were at the Mustard Museum.

We were checked out. We were getting ready to go to the airport. Oh, okay. So this was after the funeral, presumably. Yes. Is it that you're saying that Ray had a psychic premonition that you guys were going to leave it behind, that that's what he was upset about? Well, he didn't

actually know because I distracted him with gumballs, and apparently you're not supposed to give gumballs to toddlers, but I didn't know that. I did tell him I tried to kill Ray. I turned my back for one minute. She got him one of those giant, like big as your fist gumballs practically

he has it in his mouth and all of a sudden i'm looking at him and all of a sudden he's like kind of choking and chewing he has a huge wad of gum in the back of his mouth i had to pry his like jaw open like a big like python and reach my hand down there and get it out and then she thinks she knows how to mother him well i don't know how to mother i I do defer to Amy 99% of the time. Would you agree with that percentage, Amy? I'd say more like 89. 89% of the time? Okay.

Right. She does know him best. Okay. You say you may or may not be psychic. Which one of you can tell what I'm thinking? You're thinking we're crazy, but everyone thinks that. I think you're hungry. I'm hungry.

Amy, were you the one who said I was hungry? Yes. You're wrong. I'll be back in after a moment after I get my psychic memos together in chambers. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Gail, how are you feeling about the case you presented to the judge? I think he's going to be on my sister's side, which will be very hard to cope with because, you know, it's really sad when he's sad. Why do you think that?

Because he says that we should defer to the mother, which I do agree with the vast majority of the time. What percentage would you say? Like 99%. Amy, Amy, how are you feeling about your chances? No, I mean, I feel good about it. I think that in this world, you have to be strict and my sister's a bit of a wuss. Um, and so I, i think he's gonna agree

with me um you know i could be a little bit nicer but you know my my mom granny and auntie gail give him all that extra love so and you know i don't need my son to be my friend i don't need him to like me he can go ahead and love and lavish auntie and granny with all the love in the world i just need him to keep his ducks in a row and know love and lavish Auntie and Granny with all the love in the world. I just need him to keep his ducks in a row and know how to get through life and know how to punch a bully in the face if it ever comes to it. What?

You know he's three, right? Hey, you gotta start him somewhere. What's he working on now? Jeet Kune Do? You never know. He does have a stick. Does he have to do pushups every morning and sit ups before bed? Squats.

Very well. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. I am not hungry, although that is, Amy, very motherly and intuitively of you. Hunger, I have observed, is one of the main reasons for tantrums for both children and adults. But luckily I am able to remain very calm and come to this conclusion. First of all, Gail, don't give a three-year-old huge wads of chewing gum. I learned that.

Try to learn choking hazards before choking happens. That's one of my watchwords. But I would not say that this is evidence that Gail doesn't know how to mother. It's not her job to mother. I think, Amy, you agree. It's her job to auntie. mother. I think, Amy, you agree. It's her job to auntie. It's her job to lavish attention and love because she can go home at the end of the day and isn't responsible for the child's upbringing. And so long as she doesn't accidentally kill the child, this is generally, I think,

an accepted relationship between aunts and their nieces and nephews. But, Gail, I mean, you do have to defer, as I think you appreciate, to Amy, in 99, not 89, 99%, a real hard 99% of the time. And I think that that means, in a situation like this, And I think that that means in a situation like this, where if you extend comfort in a situation where Amy has determined that the rule is, Chibi doesn't come, please don't extend extra comfort at this point. You do have to defer to that. That's it.

Amy. Yes. This has nothing to do with the law. Okay? And this is only my opinion. I appreciate very much the fact that you are not the kind of parent that I live among here in Park Slope. I agree with you that tending to a child's needs all the time is probably not the greatest. And indeed, sometimes as a parent, you need to be willing to be the bad guy who is hated by the child in order to make sure they understand what the rules of life really are. I also believe and I think agree with you very firmly that the job of

the parent is to prepare a child, teach a child how to live in the world, right? And so in all of these things, I think you and I have a baseline of agreement here. However, there's a tone in what you're saying here that if I were a little bit more hungry, I'd probably be getting more upset about. And I offer this very respectfully because at the end of the day, you have to do what you think is right. idea that the emotional outpourings of a three-year-old are part of a manipulative process and that you have to discipline out of the three-year-old. And that furthermore, that offering a three-year-old emotional comfort is somehow not part of your job. I really respectfully disagree with you in my experience. Because what's going on here, I would respectfully disagree with you in my experience.

Because what's going on here, I don't, in my experience, and what little research I've screaming and kicking and yelling in order to get their way at a time. Do you know what I mean? Right, yeah. When it's not appropriate, right? So if you were saying to me that Ray was demanding that you had to go back to the hotel and get sheepy, right? And you were saying, I'm sorry, that's not how we do things, right? And Gail was saying, no, I think we should turn around. Boy, oh boy, I would have kicked Gail out of that car, right?

I would have been lost. But offering comfort to a kid who's in emotional distress, I don't think is as destructive, in my opinion, I don't think is as destructive as you fear it might be. And here's what I have to say. I think that you should tell the truth to your child about what happened to his grandfather. This is really, I appreciate that I'm stepping over a line, but I feel compelled to share this with you. You can take it if you want.

You can throw it away if you want. You can call me any name you want. Okay? No, I agree with you, but it's my husband's father, and he was the one that was adamant. Well, he's not here. He's not here,

and I'm sure he's, I'm sure. But I'll talk with him again about it, because I do agree with that. Well, you mentioned, right, yeah. I mean, I think that it's instinctive. I think you know, right? But it's like, I'm sure your husband is very, very sad because his dad died, right? And it's hard, it's hard to deal with.

But I tell you, that kid knows, right, that something's going on and not knowing what's going on, even if it's hard for him to process, you're not doing him any favors by keeping him in the dark because what he knows is that other people know something that he doesn't and it's very upsetting. That's the kind of conversation, like that's harder than any kind of discipline is having to sit down and look your kid in the eye and say, this person or this thing or this animal or this pet or this beloved friend is not coming back.

But to my mind only, it's one of the most important jobs because that's the hardest thing to do. It's the hardest form of parenting. But the hardest form of parenting is telling the truth. And here's the thing. If you don't do it, your kid will figure it out eventually. And when your kid figures it out, guess what? Your kid isn't going to have to learn how to protect himself from bullies. He's going to have a lot of emotions that he doesn't know what to do with.

And he's going to have a lot of anger and he might be a bully, which maybe is your preference. I don't know. Maybe that's why he's doing squats. Gotta have powerful thighs if you want to be a bully. He's going to be very short, though. We're a very short family. Look, I'm sure he's fantastic.

He looks great. What I can see of his face here that hasn't been obscured to ward off internet predators. Creepers. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't think you need to, just in general, I think that the emotional palette of children is really complex and weird. You don't know what they're upset about, and there's no reasoning with them, and sometimes they just got to cry it out.

And I don't personally think it's wrong to let them do that, and I do think it's kind of counterproductive to ask them to have the same emotional control that you would ask of an adult or even a 12-year-old. In particular, when a child is this age, I think the best you can offer them is that you hear them. You can't give them everything they want just because they want it. And that's certainly true, you know, if they're sad about someone in their family passing, right? That life doesn't just bend to you because you cry, but you do have a right to cry. And after a long squall, it usually kind of settles itself out. My experience only, if that's useful to you, use it. If not, I completely understand. It's your call. I defer to the mom. But I do encourage you to be straightforward with your kids and to be as hard, do the hard things, even when it's

something as hard. If you're going to be a hard mom and a strict mom, right, there's a lot to recommend it. But it also means you have to do the hard things and say i would say say to your husband and say to your kid this is the reality of the world it's very sad we're gonna be okay and know that i'm telling you the truth because um if i think they'll i think i think the child will need fewer lessons about how to defend himself if he knows that you guys are all on the same side. So I rule in the favor of Amy with the very small caveat that I also, the very small minuscule thing that you have to tell your three-year-old son that his grandfather is dead. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Thank you. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Thank you. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Amy, I'm sorry there wasn't enough yelling for you in the proceedings. How are you feeling? I'm feeling very relaxed. It was like a soothing spa treatment. How about you, Gail? I mean, the two of you are renowned for your, I'm not going to say psychic powers. I'll just go with empathy. Well, I was worried that Amy might be a little upset, so I'm glad she's not.

But it's my job in the family to worry about various things. No, I completely agree. And I do defer to Amy, you know, the vast majority of the time. And even in the case in the car, as she said, I did sit back and just hold his hand. So I'm cool with his ruling. What percentage would you say you defer? 99 because otherwise I'm in trouble. Well, Gail, Amy, thank you for joining us on the John Hodgman podcast.

Thanks for having us. Thank you, guys. Jesse, I hear I'm in my chambers. I realize, have you seen my baby cutter in half? This thing is really old. I need a new one. I mean, I didn't have to use it this time, but it's all rusty. I called the sharpener.

Did he not come? No, he didn't. And I also need oils for these joints on it. And, oh, wait a minute. Sorry, my mistake. This is the guillotine. Where's my baby cutter in half? Maybe the sharpener picked it up and he's bringing it in.

I don't know. Here's the thing. The guy had really lousy Yelp reviews, but he was the only baby cutter in half sharpener I could find within 30 miles. Yeah, you know, you're only going to get about three stars for that anyway, because it's a controversial job. Yeah, that's true. You get those activist Yelp reviewers. Those activist baby lovers.

Well, I got one idea how we could be productive, even in the absence of a baby cutter and half. We can clear out the docket. Let's pass the time that way. Okay, here's something from Charles. He writes, To this honorable court, the plaintiff seeks summary judgment

declaring that the proper pronunciation of D-E-B-A-C-L-E is debacle with the stress on the second syllable. So that's deb-buckle, not de-buckle with the stress on the first syllable. Or debacle. Debacle. Debacle.

Debacle. Judgment is sought because the latter pronunciation is awful and worse than saying irregardless. Yeah, you know, I think that I actually have been guilty of tossing out a debacle from time to time because I actually had to look this up. I don't remember specific instances, but it was enough that I had to look it up. And according to Merriam-Webster, home of our friend and lexicographer, Emily Brewster,

it is, as you say, debacle or debacle. But I do not see debacle unless it is an extremely archaic or just bad usage. So let's keep it to debacle or debacle. And irregardless, let's not have this debacle again. Adam writes, my girlfriend Lindy and I split the household chores fairly. I do the dishes. She does the laundry. Whatever. That's the sum total of the household chores fairly. I do the dishes. She does the laundry. That's the sum total of the household chores they choose to do.

And all the windows are broken and there are raccoons. The rest are left to chance. Whenever she does the laundry, she refuses to check the pockets of the pants she throws into the wash. This has lost us everything from headphones, business cards, gift cards, and even an iPod. She insists on blaming me for leaving the items in my pockets, but my argument is that it is her job as a laundress to ensure that she... He wrote launderer.

I changed it to laundress because I think that while that may be sexist, I think it's funnier. It's actually laundrix. It is her job as a laundrix to ensure that no water sensitive items make it into the washing machine. Not all of the clothes that get washed are necessarily in the hamper because sometimes I'll wear a pair of pants for a few days at a time. Just leave them in the hamper. Who's responsible for removing the items? I think that you would, if you were wise, you would check your pockets

before you ever leave your pants out of your possession for any period of time, whether they're in the hamper or not, because I have a feeling this is going to be a hard and contentious, almost debacle-like habit to break for your girlfriend. However, I do agree that she ought to be encouraged to check the pockets before she needlessly ruins things like headphones by running them through the wash. And if she continues to not check the

pockets and ruins a few more things, maybe next time you do the dishes, you should wash her iPhone. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound.

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Just buy it online. district in restaurant town just buy it online this is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you the consumer at a very reasonable price yeah if you want to take your cooking to the next level remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common they're made in made in save up to 25 this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie,

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Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

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