Judge John Hodgman - States Rights... and States Left

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Stephanie wants Brandon to admit that she’s lived in 11 states, damnit, and not deny her lived experience! Brandon counters with the fact that Japan isn’t a state (valid) and that living in a state for college…doesn’t count? Who's right? Who's wrong?BROOKLYN! Join Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn LIVE at The Bell House for NIGHT COURT (no, not that one)! Get your tickets here: Friday, March 6, Saturday, March 7Thanks to reddit user u/mkbecker for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun!Follow Judge John Hodgman on:YouTube: @judgejohnhodgmanpodInstagram: @judgejohnhodgmanTikTok: @judgejohnhodgmanpodBluesky: @judgejohnhodgmanReddit: r/maximumfunPlease consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething. Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes, discounts on our merch, and more by joining us at: maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This week, states rights and states left. Stephanie brings the case against her husband Brandon. Stephanie says she's lived in 11 states, but Brandon says, no, she's only lived in nine. Who's right? Who's wrong? What is Brandon talking about? Only one can decide, please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. for the rest of my life. Sip Bankers Club, drink Miller Light. On thirsty Thursdays and Tuesday night ice, and I can get pizza a dollar a slice. Bail of Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Stephanie and Brandon, please rise and raise your right hands. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

So help you, God, or whatever. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling? despite the fact that he lives is from a Commonwealth. He lives in a state. Yes. I live in a state, but I'm from a Commonwealth. You live in a state, but you're from a commonwealth.

I'm from a commonwealth, but I live in a state. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. First of all, you may be seated. Brandon, Stephanie, thank you for being here. I am an estate of happiness. Do you know why? I'm here at the new MaxFunn HQ. It's nice here, huh?

Sitting next to my buddy and bailiff, Jesse Thorne, joining you, Stephanie and Brandon, away in Delaware, I believe. Am I correct? Correct. Fantastic. And I did a little obscure cultural reference. I sat down with my friend Jesse for lunch today before recording at one of the 17 Schwarma places on one block here in downtown L.A.

And he picked the best one. Jewelers love Schwarma. I don't know. I don't got a cultural reference. And he suggested not one but two. You heard one of them, Brandon and Stephanie. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this court? room. Why don't we start with you, Brandon? Can you guess for an immediate summary judgment in

your favor what I was quoting? I'll give you a hint. I've already forgotten it. I don't know why, but the only thing that comes to mind is like, I think it's a dazed and confused. Dazed and confused. The film Dazed and confused is the guess. The film Dazed and confused. And I understand the guess. And you know what? It's a good guess. And so I'm going to write it down in the guest book. Anyone watching on our YouTube channel can see that I'm not lying. I'm writing it right down. All right. Stephanie, it's your turn to guess. What is your guess, if I may ask? So my prepared guess was breaking away, but I don't think it's from breaking away. So I'm going to say a Tim McGraw song. A Tim McGraw song. I don't know much about Tim McGraw. What's your

theory there? It sounds like a country song to me. Like, I don't think it's a Tim McGraw song, but he's literally the only country singer that I can think of at this moment. All right. Let's take a look at the board. Show me a Tim McGraw song. All guesses are wrong, right, Jesse? All guesses are wrong. All right. I bought enough time.

I can't remember what it was. You suggested it to me. It's the frat-hop classic I Love College by Asher Roth. By Asher Roth, the frat-hop classic, I Love College. One of the dumbest songs in the history of rap music. But it said that your prepared guest was breaking away. Mm-hmm. Guess what the obscure cultural reference to that Jesse suggested to me was.

Was it breaking away? It was breaking away. It was Mike's monologue from breaking away. These college kids out here, they're never going to get older out of shape because new ones come along every year. And they're going to keep calling us cutters. To them, it's a dirty word. To me, it's just something else. I never got a chance to be.

One of the great monologues from one of the great movies about a college town, which plays a part. specifically the college town of Bloomington, Indiana, which plays a part in today's dispute. Isn't that right, Stephanie? It's correct. And I really wanted to wear my Rose Bowl championship sweatshirt today, but I didn't want to buzz market. Well, it would have been meaningless to me. I'm so tired of people buzz marketing colleges. I guess now that all college football teams are actually professional sports teams where the students just travel from campus to campus getting paid by local car dealers or something.

I certainly don't know. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Did the University of Indiana? Indiana University. Did they win the Rose Bowl this year? They won the national championship on Monday. Good job, sports. And you, Stephanie, because you went there. Did you not? I did go there. But you live in Delaware. Correct. You went to school in Indiana, at least undergraduate. But where are you from originally? Where are you from? What's your hometown if you have? one. This is a really tough question because I don't feel like I have a hometown. We moved a lot when I was growing up, as you stated in the intro, I've lived in 11 states. So I don't really feel as if I have a place to call a hometown. You say that you lived in 11 states. Yes, correct. That's your, that's your wild claim that Brandon says is false. Brandon, where are you from? I am born and raised in Delaware. Originally from the, southern part of Delaware, but now living in the northern part here.

The difference between the southern part and northern part of Delaware is about seven miles, if I remember correctly. Something like that, but you'd be surprised. But very different worlds, because I have driven down the Delmarva Peninsula, and it gets quite rural, does it not? It does. That's the part of the world that you're from, the rural southern part of Delaware on the Delmarva Peninsula.

John, I think it's remarkable that you remembered something about Delaware. Look, if you've ever driven. down the Delmarva Peninsula, you will never forget it. Well, I almost forgot it. But the reason that I remember it has got a very handy, what do you call a thing that helps you remember? Nymonic. Yeah, that's it. I've got to get a mnemonic for my mnemonic. I didn't remember what that was. Delmarva stands for Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, that whole peninsula, three states, right? Right, Brandon? Yeah, that is correct. So what is the name of your home town. It seems like it's an easy question for you to answer. Yes. My hometown is Millsboro.

Millsboro, Delaware. All right. Is that on the coast? No, that is inland a little bit. It's like central part of Sussex County, which is the bottom county of Delaware. The bottom county of Delaware. That's its famous motto. Stephanie, you mentioned that your hometown was a hard question to answer because you moved around a lot. What was the reason for you're moving around a lot? For the first six years of my life, it was my dad was a Marine. And then after that, I like to say that my parents just liked to move and they excused it with my dad getting promotions and transferred to other places. But he had to put himself up for those.

So I think it was partially my dad's job. Partially I think my parents got bored being in one place for too long. So Brandon, Stephanie mentioned that she lived in 11 states growing up because of her. father and family itinerancy. You say that she's wrong. Why is she wrong about her own life? So I think she's counting some extra places she's lived in that she was going to school in some of those states. And sort of the crux of the case here is, you know, I don't think that because you're going to school somewhere,

it says you can actually say you lived there. Okay. Are you saying I never lived in New Haven, Connecticut? I don't do. Were you going to school there at the time? I don't know. Have you ever listened to the Judge John Hodgman podcast before? All I can do is talk about it.

Yeah, I went to Yale University, accredited four-year college in Southern Connecticut, specifically the New Haven campus. Do you claim that Jesse Thorne never lived in Santa Cruz? Yeah, I guess so. If that's where he went to school. He disagrees with that cop who gave me ticket for having my stereo too loud that one time.

Yeah. If you had done Brandon at the time, you could have told that cop, shut up and talk to Brandon. I don't even live here. The guy says, why is your address on your driver's license in San Francisco then?

When I told him, I lived down the street. Oh, yeah, right. Wait, wait, wait, was Brandon the cop? I guess. And I said, well, you know, that's my home address. I'm from San Francisco. I'm here for college. And he said, if you're here more than 30 days,

you're supposed to change your driver's license here. man. Is that true? Yes, it is. And then he gave me a ticket that I had to drive from San Francisco to Santa Cruz to contest. You mean, if I go and spend the summer in Maine, yeah, and I don't change my driver's license every summer, I'm in violation of the law of Maine. In California, it is. California's got a real short, it might have been 60 days, but yeah. That's even in the same state. Yeah. How about that? So Brandon, your contention is that Stephanie lived in two, is inflating her state count by two. One of them is Indiana, I presume, right? Because that's why you love Bloomington so much, Stephanie?

Correct. What'd you do in Bloomington, Indiana? You went to undergrad? I got my, yeah, I did my undergrad there. And what did you major in, if I may ask? I majored in English. Terrific. What did you write your thesis on?

I wasn't in the honors program, so I didn't write a thesis in my undergrad, unfortunately, not till grad school. Real cutter. She's a real cutter. She majored in English. What was her thesis about crumpets? And you went to graduate school in Bloomington as well? I actually went to graduate school. I got my master's at Syracuse and then I got my PhD University of Illinois. Oh, okay. Excuse me. I thought, all right, great. So you got your master's degree in English at Syracuse? I got my master's degree in television radio and. and then I did my PhD in media and communications. Oh, okay.

Well, thank you, Dr. Stephanie. And that was in Illinois. Where did you go to school in Illinois? Did you say? Oh, yeah. University of Illinois and Champaign. University of Illinois and champagne. Sorry, Urbana.

And Urbana. You're out of here, Urbana. John, if it's in Urbana, it's just sparkling wine. Setting aside, Illinois and Indiana, the two contested states for the moment, name the other states that you claim to have lived in. if Brandon so approves. Okay. California was born.

Then I was in Japan, which is an estate, obviously. I would say that's a prefecture. Although stuff's been going down with re-geopolitics. Yeah, that's true. By the time this is released, who knows? I might count as a state. I haven't looked at the master list of what's supposed to be a state. Yeah.

And be grateful for it. But for the time being, at least when you were there, Correct. Japan was a sovereign nation and not a state. Yes. This is when your dad was in the armed forces. Yes. That was the military base that we lived on.

I guess so maybe, I don't know. Is that count as a state? I don't think so. I was in Maryland. Maryland? Pennsylvania. All right. That's a Commonwealth.

Oh, okay. So we can scratch that one right off. Okay, take that one off. Then Alabama. You might win this one. You might win this one by accident, Brandon. I hear one more common. Commonwealth in this list.

I don't think I have any more. I could give you Indiana and Illinois and you still would have only lived in nine states. So let's go. Let's hear it. All right. Alabama. Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah.

Pennsylvania. Then Alabama. State. And then I went to Indiana for school. My parents moved to Ohio and I lived there in the summers. Ohio is a state. And then, oh my gosh, then New York. New York is a state.

They call it a New York state of mine. You mean concrete jungle where dreams are made of? Where dreams are made of is the lyric. Our friend and occasional guest bail of Gene Gray was just complaining to me about that lyric the other day. It's unbelievable that it made it to the final recording. I mean, honestly. It is awe in spot. I mean, there's a lot of malapropisms in hip hop music broadly.

And I think you could broadly define that as a hip hop record, even though a lot of it is sung. Right. but that is like an all-timer. Concrete jungle where dreams are made of. They didn't have a Indiana-trained English major. Look over it before they finished the song. No. Okay, we got you to Indiana.

So far I've got Maryland, Japan, doesn't count. California, Pennsylvania, question mark. Ohio, New York. Alabama. That's five. They missed one. Alabama. Right.

Okay. Thank you. Maryland? We already heard Maryland. We got Maryland. So then it was Delaware. The first time. Delaware estate.

Yes. And then Illinois. No matter what they say, it's a state. Yes. Barely. Wait. And then Illinois was after that. Illinois is still in contention.

Oh, yes. In contention. Then Missouri. Missouri is state. And then Pennsylvania again. Okay. And then Delaware again. I still only get to eight.

Eight. I get to eight? Let's start again. One more time. What if I made some up in my head? Wait, oh, I missed Louisiana. Louisiana. I think that brings us to nine.

Minus Pennsylvania, because that's a Commonwealth. Correct. But you never lived in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Maybe I was counting Japan as one of the states because I didn't know how to classify it. Well, that would be an error. It wasn't you, you were only Louisiana first. Oh, aren't you for like a? A semester?

It was a year. Louisiana was also a school? Yes. I think Brandon forgot about that one in this dispute that Louisiana was also a school state. Yeah. Okay. We're going to need to get this straight because what I'm hearing is that we don't have a list of 11. I'm hearing that Brandon's dispute is based on whether they were schools and he's only counting three of the four schools, school places.

Yeah. What about New York, Brandon? And does that not count? I also, I stayed in New York after school, so he gives me that one. So I lived there apart from being in school also. This is what I remember now. Maryland. That's about where it stops right.

Maryland. Weirdly, now. All right. Alabama. Ohio. Illinois. That's in contention. Taking it away for a moment.

Pennsylvania. Technically a Commonwealth, but I'll allow it. Louisiana. Did I do New York already? I can't keep track. The only one I remember is Delaware, ironically. That's weird. Anyway, you've lived all over the place.

You've lived in many different regions and many different nations. And yet it says here that you have a Midwestern spirit. You consider yourself to have a Midwestern spirit. Is that correct, Stephanie? I do. Yes. What does that mean to you? I think percentage-wise, I've spent the most time in the Midwest, in Midwestern states.

Indiana, Illinois, Ohio. So what does a Midwestern spirit mean to you? Oh, yeah. So it's like I've been there the longest, but also I think that like people there are chatty. Like I could talk to people at the grocery store in line and they wouldn't think that was weird. They think that's weird here. I would smile at people in the street and it didn't like give me a grimace. And I feel like on the East Coast, they tend to do that more often. When did you meet and where in all these different places did you meet?

We met when she was, we were both actually living in Pennsylvania at the time. And we met online. And she was teaching at Westchester University. And I worked at Westchester. So that's where we first met and started dating. And then eventually we moved to Delaware and been there since. So you were teaching at Westchester University. Is that in the Pittsburgh area?

It's like a suburb of Philly. But Brandon, you were teaching at the school as well. Did I understand that correctly? No, I was just living in Westchester for my current job. I have. So how many states have you lived in by your own rubric? So for me, I've only lived in two. And they are Delaware. Yep. And Pennsylvania. Right, which may be a commonwealth. Well, I'm going to allow it in this case, because I'm already too confused. Did you, did you go away to college to any other state or Japanese prefecture?

I did not. I stayed in state and went to school in Delaware. When did this come up in your relationship that you decided that Stephanie had not actually lived in the states where she had, I don't know how you would put this, lived? So I believe we were driving somewhere and we were discussing about the question of where you're from and Stephanie was going through the list of all those places that she was just trying to explain. And I questioned, I was like, well, wait a minute. Did you actually live there? Were you from that area? or do you just going to school at that point? Well, those are two different questions, Brandon,

being from an area and living in an area. There are lots of people who live places where they are not from. Right, yeah. So it was more of just saying, like, well, can you say that you actually lived in this place and actually, you know, claim that is a place you've actually lived, lived in and experienced versus, well, I just was going to school at that point, point time.

Like, where were you in your relationship when this came up in this car trip to unspecified place, I presume, because it doesn't count for some reason. Also, I want to know what date it was. Yeah. So we were married at that point, if that's kind of... Oh, you were married. You had never asked her where she was from or where she had lived until you were already married. I did ask her where she was from, I believe, on our first date and kind of got the same sort of response about...

That was a very confusing question for her, and she explained why. But you waited until you waited until you had locked it down. before you started saying, sorry, you never lived in Illinois or Indiana. Correct. Right. Stephanie, do you remember this conversation in the car? And do you remember where you were going? We were driving from our house to go to Philadelphia to see my sister and brother-in-law and nephew.

And, yeah, he'd never brought this up before. Like, this is the first time he's ever contested it. And it's been, like, four years of us knowing each other. So it was four years at the time of this drive. You were already married. And all of a sudden, he's saying to you, No, that doesn't count. Yes, correct.

Why doesn't it count, Brandon? I think that if you are going to school somewhere and let's say something happens, like you have to leave school and can't stay on campus anymore, then where would you go? Would you stay in the state or would you go to your home, which probably is going to be your parents' residence or something to affect? So when my son took a leave of absence from the Savannah College of Art and Design, but lived in Savannah and worked in Savannah for a year. Was he living there or was he not living in Savannah?

I would say you could be living there. So if you're enrolled in school, you're not living in the place. Right. Because college towns don't count as real places. I mean, that's an argument that I could almost hear someone making. Yeah, they're like more of a liminal space. Yeah, it's more of a more of an airport plus patchoulli kind of situation. Yeah, well, I mean, and, uh,

In some regions, gathering of local football fans. Yeah, that's another different region, yeah. But in the same way that if you land at an airport, but you don't leave the airport, have you actually visited that place? And I would make the argument, no, you haven't. But it's the same sort of argument. It doesn't count if you're going to school. Right, yeah.

I would agree with what you're kind of saying about. Yeah, if we're flying through and you made a connecting flight to someplace, then, yeah, you had really visited that area. Yes. Well, we agree on that, Brandon, but I need to hear more about the full theory of why if you go to school and live in that place for four years or four and a half years as I did in New Haven, if I worked in that place and paid taxes in that place and voted in that place, I live both on campus and off campus in that place while I was going to school. And yet you would say I never lived there. Why? Well, I guess the question is, did you have to change your license? to that, to that, to that, whatever the address or place you were living at the time? Or did you have a, whether I had to or not, I never did. Is that the criterion? That's one of them.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's sort of the main, the main criteria of it is like, you know, you didn't really have to, like, adjust anything to, to say you were living there. You were just kind of staying there at the time. And you would, most people would probably go back home after, after that. You know, I hate to suggest any prejudgment on my part. I would agree that reasonable people might disagree over this issue. And I would say that most reasonable people would disagree with you. But I really want to know why this is important to you to discount people who live while going to college in a place that that counts as living.

Why is that dismissable? So I think the main reason why for me is. is because, you know, when people usually go to school in Delaware, we have a fairly large university in the state. Sure, of course. Yeah. A lot of people actually come from out of town to go to the school there. Especially for people from like New York, New Jersey, you know, the surrounding states that usually come to the school there. And so it's like, I don't think that you get to kind of claim, you should be able to claim that, you know, while I lived in Delaware for a few years,

but only just because I was going to school at that time. I think people just want the social prestige that comes with having lived in Delaware. I don't want to run down Delaware anymore because Delaware is his home state. It's nice, right? Yeah. It is the first one. It's nice. Would it be fair to say it sounds as though, and this is something that I do understand,

that you feel somewhat protective about your home state? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, you know, it's, it being, I think, a small state, It's one of those types of places where, you know, if you actually run into somebody from Delaware, you almost kind of feel like you know them in a sense or you might be able to sort of find a mutual friend in between probably in some cases. Right. Even though you've never talked to this person, but. Unless they're one of those loathsome from away people who just come into swan into Delaware to study English for four years and then go away. Right. Yeah.

I mean, I could see, I mean, certainly I'm sure there were people in New Haven who wouldn't consider me to be. a resident of New Haven. I was, they were townies and I was a gownie. I'm wearing, indeed, I'm wearing a gown right now. So am I. Well, no, you're not. You're wearing a bailiff's outfit. You don't know what's on underneath. That's true. We're going to a party later. We're in a little gowny. Okay, I get that. Now, okay, I understand you a little bit better now. Stephanie, it says here that you feel that you have no hometown. Obviously, Brandon has a very strong sense of home, and yet you feel you have no sense of home. Is that accurate what I'm reading here? Yes. Tell me more about that. Yeah, I mean, whenever I meet people, they really try to get,

like, it makes them upset when I say, don't feel like I'm from somewhere. And they're like, well, where do you like the best? Like, where do you feel like you would claim? And I don't feel like I can claim anywhere. I didn't live anywhere longer than, I think, eight years. And that was when I was pretty young. And so I feel like an anthropologist, almost. Which was the eight year? Which is the That was Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh. Okay, gotcha. And what were your ages in Pittsburgh? I was six to 13. Six to 13 is pretty formative years.

Yeah, but it's been so long. 13 is a tough year to move, too, by the way. It was. I did throw a hissy fit. Where did you, where did you move when you left Pittsburgh? That was when I went to Alabama. Alabama. Okay. No offense to Alabama, but okay. I wasn't happy. Where in Alabama?

Pittsburgh's a nice town. There are a lot of marine bases in Pittsburgh. No, he was in the steel industry at that point. Oh, okay, got it. Kind of stereotypical, I guess. Are we playing nose tackle? When you were living in Pittsburgh, did you see a lot of Oscar Meyer Wienermobiles? Right, Jesse?

We saw that there. Oh, man, you guys are going to believe this. John and I went to San Francisco Sketch Fest in San Francisco, California. Then we both, our next stop was Los Angeles. But we had different flights. Different flights. pardon my French, but guess which sends me

cell phone pictures of him on the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile without me. I'll give you a hint. It's not me. It's John. I did it. This is the weirdest interstitial outtake from when Harry met Sally ever. So anyway, you moved around a lot and you don't feel like you have a hometown. But what I wanted to get back to

to is like when you mentioned that when I tell people, this is what I remember you saying. When I tell people I don't have a hometown, it upsets them and they ask me to figure out where I most feel at home or something like that. Right. I'm paraphrasing. What do you think is going on, Stephanie, between Brandon who wants to deny certain places where you lived and other people who don't want to acknowledge that you don't really have a hometown in the classic Brandon sense? Why do you think people care about this? I mean, people have really, like really strong connections to the place that they're from.

Yeah. And I think that it like unsettles them a little bit to meet somebody who doesn't have that connection. Yeah, I can see Brandon also being very protective of his hometown and his home state in a way that I don't totally understand and that I'm a little bit jealous of. Was there a college near where you lived in Delaware? I know you mentioned that there's a big, I mean, there are a number of colleges in Delaware, but were you living in a college town, Brandon? I wasn't living in a I would call it the college town for for Delaware, which is Newark. But yeah, University of Delaware is like the main university school here. And those kids, when they come to school, are they monsters?

A bit. I think for a little while there, Delaware, University of Delaware was considered like one of the, I guess, larger, like top five, like party schools, I think, for a good, good while. You see Santa Cruz was where Jennifer and I went. Yeah. I was always like, that's so weird. I feel like there's so little like binge drinking or whatever. It just turned out that like binge drinking got you one point and psychedelics got you like 10 points. Oh, on the party school scale.

Yeah, and everybody was always lying in a field eating mushrooms. Oh, I say, yeah. Or they were lying under a tarp back in the woods, right? Yeah. You went to college, Brandon, did you say? Yes. I only attended University Deller for one semester, but I finished going to school at Wilmington, University, which is a smaller school here.

But all in Delaware. You kept it all in Delaware. Correct. What else should we know about your hometown or your home state, your home region that is often overlooked because people like Jesse are making fun of you all the time? Yeah. Um, we are. I don't know if it's still here actually. It is, uh, home of the Pumpkin Chunkin Festival. Oh.

Uh, the Pumpkin Chunkin' Festival. is a catapult. You catapult pumpkins, see how far they can go. Is it a catapult or a trabusier? I don't know. I think there's like two different versions. You can have ones that are mechanical that, you know, use weight and gravity.

And then there's others that are powered through like compressed air or something to that, you know, gas power. You ever chunk of pumpkin yourself? Not like that, but I mean, I have tried to throw one. What else should we know about this place where you lived? I mean, other than that, I think, you know, It's got sort of a mix of a little bit of everything in that kind of mentioned Rojobith earlier, as a somewhat known beach town. But I don't think, when people think of Delaware, they would never know that there's an actual beach resort town in the state.

So, Brandon, this is your chance. I realize that maybe you feel a little bit put on the spot. So I'm going to give you a little chance to think about it and really think of like two or three things that really embody. your home state, your hometown, your sense of home in Delaware. I almost said Maryland by accident. I apologize. But like sing us a song of Delaware at a moment. Just think about it for a second because this is the case hinges to a degree on the sense of a home place and what it means to live in a place versus what it means to live briefly in a place.

John, you say that. I feel like Brandon made a pretty compelling argument. when he said they like it in Delaware that people have to drive through Delaware and don't know that they're in Delaware. Is that something that people like? I mean, that's what I'm paraphrasing Brandon. I heard him say that out of his mouthful. Stephanie, I'm going to ask you the same question, but I'm going to put you on the spot right now. I'm going to give me you having time to think about it.

Three things I loved about living in Indiana, Bloomington specifically. go. All right. Bloomington is a, I mean, they're having problems right now with, it doesn't matter. They're having problems right now, but it was a very liberal progressive spot at blue dot in an otherwise red state. Collegetown doesn't count. I got it. Not real Americans. Understood. Okay. I won't say it that way. We'll say it's a very open-minded. I'm not making fun of you. I'm agreeing with you. Okay. Yeah. So they had like a hippie, cool vibe. Love that. Right.

I loved the, like I said, I loved the, everyone's very friendly and open in Indiana. I loved that. And I, oh, no, I'm going to, a lot of it has to do with school. Now I'm trying to think of an Indiana specific thing. I know. And I liked the, oh, you know, it's beautiful down in Bloomington. Like, it's actually not as flat as you would think in India, like in that part of Indiana. There are a lot of trees and lakes and the countryside was really beautiful.

Not as flat as you would think. Indiana. Not as flat. In script on the screen. Not as flat as you think. Well, so how do you feel when Brandon started denying your existence in Indiana and Illinois? And New York got a pass because you had continued to live in New York after your academic program, right? Yes.

You are a Syracusan. Brandon is Stephanie a Syracusan in your eyes? When you were living in New York. To be fair, I moved to New York City after I graduated. Oh. Where dreams are made of? Correct. Yeah, concrete jungle.

Where did you live in New York? I was in, I moved like so many times too. I moved from, I was in, um, what's it called? Inwood up in like really high up in Manhattan. Sure. I lived in the red hook. The northern tip of Manhattan, sure. Yeah.

And then Red Hook. And then Red Hook. Oh, all the way down to the western edge of Brooklyn. Yeah. Yeah, I also knew that. You lived in the margins. I did. Very top, very bottom.

So when Brandon in this road trip said to you, no, sorry, you never lived in Illinois or Indiana. How did that make you feel? It made me feel insulted and sad. And also, like, because those are two places I actually spent a chunk of time when there's a lot of other places I live. for only a short amount of time, like taking pieces of the places I actually feel an affinity towards away and, like, making them not count as much. I mean, Brandon, you know, Stephanie only lived for four years in Alabama during which she was attending school, literally high school.

Did she live in Alabama? Yes or no? I would say, yes, she did live in Alabama at that point. So it's college only. Correct, yeah. specifically I'd say undergrad because I think once you get into the graduate levels they like I think you get paid and stuff like that I never had a graduate degree so I wouldn't don't know the ins and outs of it you heard you heard you heard Stephanie say that she felt insulted

by your contention that she never lived in Indiana or Illinois um I presume because you love her and you're married to her you would don't want to insult her and yet you persist in it why is it important to you to maintain that she did not live in these places? I mean, for one, I know I also feel bad that she doesn't have a place that she could like call home in a sense. Okay. So I do feel that, you know, I would for her sake, I wish she could have a place for like, yeah, I'm from here.

I like, you know, this is this is where I lived and feel a sense of pride. But, you know, because she's moved around so much, she, you know, it's hard for her to kind pinpoint. But that's why I think she picks those areas. to say she lived because that's, you know, she was only there for a short amount of time. But I mean, Stephanie, it's, I mean, the way you talked about it before, I wonder if maybe you agree with Brandon that you feel a little sad for yourself that you don't have a hometown per se. I do feel sad.

Why do you feel sad? You've lived an interesting life. I know. I mean, the flip side is, yes, it's like easy for me to make friends. I don't get freaked out anymore about moving. I can acclimate really quickly. But I always think about how I love people's regional accents. because it shows like they have like a claim to a part of the country.

Um, and I don't have that. And I don't know. I wish I was almost like I could go back to consistently that felt like a landing place. You live in Delaware now, but where, where do you live now in Delaware, more or less? Wilmington, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Which is the biggest city in Delaware. Yes. Right. So. Except for Baltimore. Yeah. So, and Ocean City, Maryland. And I.

Stephanie, do you feel that Brandon had something in his hometown that you didn't? And what would that be? Have you been to his hometown? Yes. My parents live there now. Your parents live there now? They live close to it, yes. Are they roommates with Brandon's parents?

They're like 20 minutes away from Brandon's parents. Okay. So I put it to Brandon to give me three, three, reasons why his hometown is great. And Brandon, you're still thinking about it, right? Yeah, I think I can kind of come up with three sort of things now. All right. Let's do it this way.

Since you know his hometown, because your parents live near there, Stephanie. Let's alternate it. Brandon, you give me one. Then Stephanie, give me one. I want to know all about this hometown. Brandon, hit me. I love my hometown because it has blank or whatever. Maybe a cop out, but it's like, there's like a sense of community or pride, I guess,

that is different from being such from a small state in that. Because even though I lived and grew up in the southern part, it's like you still feel a connection to all parts of the state in general instead of just being like, oh, I'm from this one specific town or area. Sure. You like being part of a small state. Right. You feel a community cohesion in a way that I might not as a Northern Californian living in South California or visiting actual Northern California or central California. All right. And that feels good to you. You feel part of a cohesive community. I got you. Stephanie, this can be anything like I, like if I were to talk about my hometown, I would be like, I like, I worked. I love the Coolidge Corner movie theater. Yeah. I mean, it's close to the beaches without having as horrible of traffic as you've, if you've lived closer as you can get to the beach without having to be in the thick of all the tourists.

You're really tugging at my heartstrings here. Close to the beach, little traffic. Got it. Okay. Brandon, you're up. up next. It's a sort of piggyback off of what she was saying. So we have beaches. We also have like maybe not have like a professional sports team, but we have the, um, the Dover race track, which is like a big traction for,

for NASCAR that they race here every year. Okay. Stephanie, you want to give me one more? Um, okay, I don't like this, but everyone else loves Grotto's pizza. That's like,

okay, this is what I'm talking about. Finally, we got for the pizza. I was like, Like, at some point, somebody's kind of mentioned a special kind of pizza or ice cream. Grotto's pizza. What makes it, what makes Delaware style pizza?

The next hot pizza that's going to take Instagram by storm. Yeah, Bernie, you got to take this one because I think it's gross. Yeah. Now we're talking. I think grotto's pizza is like probably the perfect like beach pizza. In that like. It's sand repellent. No, it's it's like a, it's a really like thin crust.

They don't use, they use, they use a sunblock. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead, please. It's a, it's like a thin crust pizza. It's a little, can be a little sweet, depending on if you like that sort of about your pizza or not. Why is it important for you to have a hometown, Brandon? And why is it important for Stephanie to, what is Stephanie missing? I just think that, you know, that sort of, like I said, the, um,

being able to have a place to claim sort of as your hometown and where you're from and that kind of thing. Like it's it gives you sort of like a sense of pride to be able to, I think, say something like that and to, you know, be able to be like, yeah, like it sort of kind of gives people like a sense of like what your roots may be. As far as kind of like where you're from or like that sort of thing. How long ago was this road trip where Brandon first denied your lived experience? I think it was like just in November, not that long ago. Oh, quite recently. So this is a fresh dispute. Correct.

Stephanie, when you were going to school, how much time did you spend in Indiana or Illinois versus, say, your parents home in Ohio? In Indiana, I was spending summers in Ohio. And when I was at Illinois, I was just living in Illinois. I never went. I never really went back to where my parents were. All right. So, Brandon, during her college and postgraduate career, in these I states, Illinois and Indiana,

she was spending either a majority or 100% of the time in those states. So while she was living there, a majority or 100% of the time in those states, if she wasn't living in Indiana, Illinois, where was she living? I would say sort of like in a, and I guess a void of sorts of that. Like a limbo. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So like, like Brandon, if you were, if you were, if you were traveling and you got stranded in an airport and you weren't allowed to leave, and you were stranded, say, and what's a good airport? What's a good airport? I'd say the Santa Fe, New Mexico Municipal Airport, and you were sleeping in there, but you weren't allowed to leave the premises. That would be a void, right?

You wouldn't be living in Santa Fe. You'd be living in the airport. Right. Sorry. I'm still trying to think about this question. You asked me, what's a good airport? Yeah, okay. I understand.

Only John Hodgman. Only John Hodgman get to the airport early enthusiast. I did think, I did suggest what I think is a very good airport, which is the Santa Fe Municipal Airport. Right now, John is going, God, I wish I was in an airport right now. There is part of me that feels that way. Stephanie, when you were in Bloomington, did you vote in Indiana? I did not. I voted in Ohio. Okay. Interesting.

Absentee, I presume? Yes. Okay. Did you have a job? Yes. Like a part-time job? I did. What was your part-time job?

I worked at Starbucks and I worked at Outback Steakhouse. Chains only? Yes. That's all we had. No local businesses. John, when the Boomerang go, it'd come back. You will too. Yeah. Outback.

That's an Outback Steakhouse thing. Outback Steakhouse. Outback Steakhouse from the land. They don't sponsor us. I'd take that sponsorship. Sure. You ever had one of those blooming onions? No, I hear they originated in Bloomington, Illinois.

Indiana, Indiana, sorry, whoops. There is also a Bloomington, Illinois, so. Well, maybe I'm thinking of that. All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my special LA edition chambers here at Maximum Fund New HQ in downtown Los Angeles. That means I'm going to lie down on this couch for a minute while Jesse talks to you guys. and then I'll get back up again, I promise,

and I'll be back on home with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Brandon, how do you feel about your chances right now? I feel somewhat optimistic, I think. I feel like there's some good arguments as far as to being able to, you know, claim that you lived anywhere. Stephanie, how do you feel? I feel pretty good, I think.

All right, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a minute. It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast, and we are headed to New York City and the high seas. That's true. In just about a month, we will be in Brooklyn, New York, one of my many hometowns at one of my very favorite places to perform, and yours too, I dare to say, Jesse, the Bell House. March 6th and 7th, Friday and Saturday, Jesse and I are returning to the Bell House with a brand new show known only as Nightcourt. It's a little after hours. It's going to be a little wild. Both shows are going to be brand new and all different. So I hope you'll get tickets for both. Go to maximum fun.org slash events or the Bellhouses

website. And Jesse Thorne, you weren't lying when you said that we're going to be on the high seas. We are joining the Grace Bailey. That's right. A historic sailing ship sailing the coast of Maine, June 14th through 18th. This is going to be a pretty exciting time. We're on this boat that's Co-owned by our friend Mark Evan Jackson from television. That's right. I have been on the Grace Bailey before on a sailing with Mark before. It's a beautiful, historic and small and intimate sailing vessel. I think they only have births for about 25 people.

So we ask, please, no murderers. That's right, please. Please, it's not a murder mystery. It's not a death on the Nile situation. It's maritime law. It's John and Jesse at sea. With thee, if you are there, go to sail, Grace, Bailey.com. That's salegracebailey.com for all the details. It's going to be really special.

I love to bring people to Maine and show it off, especially from sea. I'm going to be reading from vacation land. You and I are going to dispense some maritime law. Jesse, maybe you'll give some some nautical outfit tips. I don't know. We're just going to have a good time with our friends. And askuts will be worn. That's right. And you're our friends. So please join us at sea. sale grace bailey.com. And of course our Bellhouse shows, maximum fun.org slash events. John, you know this television program,

Ha ha, you clowns? Yes, I do. It's incredibly funny. Yes. On adult swim. This is like my new favorite show on television. Yeah. Ever since I lost my balma.

Oh, yeah. That's something they say on that show. Anyway, Joe Kappa, the creator of that show is the guest this week on Bullseye. And then let me ask you this question, John. I want to answer it. Have you heard of a comedy group called Monty? Monty Python? I have.

Full name Monty Python's Flying Circus. Yes, I have heard of them. Well, next week on Bullseye is an entire week dedicated to Monty Python featuring interviews with four different members of Monty Python conducted by me. All now in various states of aliveness and canceledness. But they're all wonderful interviews, just really incredible experiences. I think one of the very first interviews I remember listening. to you, frankly, smash, was Terry Jones from Vante Phaeton. What a sweet years ago.

What a lovely man. I grew up reading Terry Jones' book of fairy tale stories. Oh, yeah, that's very funny. One of my favorite things ever. And so it was such an incredible honor. He was like, he was working on the, like, reissued, like, definitive version of Time bandits at the time. Yeah, yeah.

I just, what a, what a lovely man. he was. Yeah, it's Eric Idol, John Cleese. Michael Palin. Michael Palin. No, not Michael Palin. Oh, sorry. It's Eric Idol. Yeah. John Cleese. Terry Gilliam. Yeah. Terry Jones. Whoa. Four pythons on bullseye. That's amazing. And if you haven't heard me say it before, I'll say it again. Jesse Thorne's one of the greatest interviewers. I dare say conversationalists that I've ever met and had the pleasure to listen to. It is how I, came to know Jesse by listening to him interview me and other people. And if Bullseye is not on your weekly rotation, you've made a grievous error.

Go subscribe to Bullseye right now so you can hear those incredible interviews, not just these, but all the others. And please again, go to Maximumfund.org slash events to join us at the bellhouse and sailgracebailey.com to join us at sea. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman awakens from his slumber and present. it's his verdict. You know, if you sleep on a couch somewhere, it means you lived there.

Or a love seat in this case. Yeah. That was a nice little disco nap I had there. It was a very comfortable, comfortable new headquarters, Jesse. Thanks for inviting me by. You're welcome, and you're welcome for the cocaine earlier. Okay. I thought that I thought that I was just sniffing that wonderful new seasonal candle,

the Judge John Hodgman, Justice Smell candle, available at maxfundstore.com. You can see one right here on our coffee table. Now available in Columbian White. You know, while I was taking a little nap there, I thought to myself, did I really live in New Haven, Connecticut? I mean, unlike you, Stephanie, I did work in a local business there. A couple of them. I worked at Claire's Cornucopia alongside a bunch of people who did not go to the college,

known as Yale. And then I worked for a couple of years at Film Fest video. the original location on Temple Street, and then I moved with them to their downstairs location at Chapel Street. Oh, right there on Chapel Street? Right there on Chapel Street. It's now a hair salon. I paid taxes, obviously, because they were garnished from my wages. I voted in my first presidential election.

I voted in Connecticut, in New Haven, Connecticut. I lived off campus there, both with friends and I had my own lease. Does that mean I lived there? You know, I began this episode thinking to myself, absolutely yes. And now, after talking to Brandon for a while, I wonder if I really did. Talking to Brandon was a little bit like going to the Maine subreddit. I spent a lot of time in Maine, and I would not say that I am, you know, from Maine anymore than I would say that I'm from New York City, even though I've lived in New York City for more than 30 years.

Being from a place is different from living in a place, obviously. And in Maine, as in I think Delaware, there is an element and really in all sort of college towns or cities like New York that attract a lot of transients and transplants. There is a anxiety surrounding people claiming to live in a place where they have no history or people or background or whatever. You know what I mean? Like going to the main subreddit is like talking to Brandon a little bit because everyone who goes to the main subreddit goes to a mega thread that. They have pinned at the top of it saying, ask all your questions about visiting Maine here. And people take the bait and they come in.

They say, tell me about your hidden gems. Tell me what you love about Maine. And it's just a trick. It's just a trap. It's for the Mainers to go say, go away and never come here. There are no hidden gems. We hate you.

Just over and over and over again. You just watch all these people like fly onto the fly paper and then get caught in this invective against people from, away. Now, in Delaware, they're more polite, obviously. Brandon isn't out here, you know, being mean to people from Delaware, but he likes it when they just drive on through. He doesn't like it when they come to Delaware and they go to college there for four years and they party for four years and then claim that they lived there. And honestly, I understand there is a sensitivity to and a protectiveness of a place.

that leads you to hide your light under a bushel and not tell Judge John Hodgman about Grotto's pizza until you're forced to after maybe 25 minutes of conversation. And the reality is that while there are smaller states that have like Maine and like Delaware, that have fewer people in it and therefore sort of by default a certain amount more of cultural cohesion, it's not exclusive. this is really a time to remember that where we live is, A, all stolen land, and B, a place where people have come from all over to make lives, to live, to live. Now, while I appreciate your point, Brandon, and I really do, and I think that, you know, I don't think Stephanie would claim to be from Bloomington, Indiana, or Champaign, Urbana, Illinois, or Syracuse. or any of the places that she lived because she's too decent to claim that. Certainly not Urbana. Certainly not Urbana.

No one's from Urbana. But to say that to deny her, I understand the impulse to deny her, her claim to have lived there. And it is, going to school is a different kind of living there than living there. But I think it's a bad time in history to say that certain people, certain people's residency doesn't count in light of what's going on. And I understand that this is personal and low stakes between the two of you, but in the larger picture, if someone makes a life somewhere, either studying or working or whatever,

to deny them legitimacy, I think, is a, is not, it's not a good faith thing to do. And especially in your case, Brandon, because what you're protecting, Delaware isn't under threat. by Stephanie. What you're protecting, Delaware, Bloomington doesn't care if Stephanie claims to have lived there or not. You spend a life, it's a different kind of life living in college,

but it would be the same thing as a different kind of life if you were stationed in Japan. You wouldn't say that you were Japanese, but did Stephanie live in Japan? Absolutely she did. So I'm afraid I have to, find in Stephanie's favor in this case. If only because

of the broader point that people deserve to make their lives where they want to and not be questioned and doubted because of where they came from. So with that in mind, I am going to find in Stephanie's favor. I will

suggest a soft apology, but I'm not going to impose severe damages because I don't think you're coming from a bad place of heart, Brandon, at all. This is the sound of a gavel. Or imagine being able to be magically whisked away to Delaware.

Hi. I mean Delaware. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Brandon, how do you feel right now? You know, as John put it, I think, you know, I see where he is coming from. And I think I would agree with kind of what he was saying. You know, it's, I think he's right in that, you know, even if you only live there for so long, you know, it is part of your life.

So I think that, yeah, you can get to get the claims of that. Stephanie, how do you feel about the decision? I feel very vindicated. Brandon, Stephanie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We're going to have swift justice in just a second.

First, our thanks to Reditor, M.K. Becker. You can join us on Reddit R slash Maximum Fun. M.K. Becker named this episode. States rights and states lift. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account. That's Judge John Hodgman. We're also on TikTok and Utah. Utah.

We're on TikTok and your top. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account. That's Judge John Hodgman. We're also on TikTok and YouTube, Judge John Hodgman pod. Follow and subscribe on all of. those platforms, please. I have it right here, Jesse Thorne, hot off the new Maximum Fun HQ laser printer.

Yeah. The YouTube comment of the week. YouTube comment of the week with John Hodgman. It comes from our most recent episode, posted on our YouTube channel at Judge John Hodgman pod. Yeah. It comes from Miko Simonen. Miko Simone N.

And they said, emerging from the podcast minds, shielding my eyes from the light, How strange I see no more JJHO on my pod feed. Am I finally caught up? This is someone who's been watching and listening to every episode from the beginning, finally caught up. Congratulations.

Guess what? There's another one coming your way. In fact, we just recorded it. What's more? Can I encourage you, please, to become a member if you are a not one already, Miko Simone. N. Thank you for watching us on YouTube. I trust that you might be a member by joining us at maximum fund.org slash join,

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It is really, really helpful to getting people to discover the podcast. So if you are not already watching us on YouTube, please give it a try. It's a lot of fun. Maybe you'll be YouTube comment of the week. If you are already there, please subscribe. And, of course, leave a comment. Judge John Hottman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgeman. This episode engineered by Christopher Bruce at King Creative in Wilmington, Delaware.

Megan Rossotti runs our social media, the podcast edited by A.J. McKee and our video editor, Daniel Spear, our producer, Jennifer Marmer. All right, Swift Justice. J.D. Instagrams on the MaxFund subreddit says, the perfect Reddit name. Perfect Reddit name. J.D. Instagrams. Is the shorthand name for Instagram, Graham or Insta? I think it's Graham. My friend Rob says it's Insta.

I've heard young people saying putting it on the gram. Yeah, but you never said it put it on Graham. No, you never say put it on Graham. Unless you're balancing on top of your grandmother's head. Or you're betting on a horse name, maybe Graham Cracker. Yeah, that could be. It would seem like the horse name. No, it's Insta.

Insta is shorthand for Instagram, in my opinion. Insta is what it is. Both make you sound like a jerk. No offense, J.D. Instagram's your very name. with a Z, by the way. But yeah, no, it's, I'm afraid you're wrong. Rob is correct. It's Insta.

John, it's the most wonderful time of the year, a time that, in my opinion, should be generating conflicts. Spring? Yeah. I can't believe that it's almost spring. It's right around the corner. It's a time for renewal. It's time for blooming. Time for cleaning.

What is the best cleaning product? This is our spring cleaning call to action for disputes. Why is it 409? Do you like 409? What if it's oxyclean? What about scrubbing bubbles? I love those little bubbles. Definitely the best animated cleaning product mascot.

Is springing forward good or bad? How do you feel about daylight saving schemes, everybody? A lot of you love spring because they're ready for light and warmth, but are spring actually just winter part two? Wow, that's an interesting potential hot take. That's a potential hot take. If anyone has it out there. Stephen A. Smith, give us a call. anything else like it. We're looking for your spring disputes. Anything to do with flowers.

Did you originally read that one in King's things, the three dot column by Larry King? No, never read that one. Never read that one. But if you have a spring-based dispute, anything to do with flowers. Spring, actually, Winter Part 2. Did you ever, that's right. That sounds like him. Yeah, now I get it. Yeah. Do you have any spring disputes, anything to do with flowers? Did you ever rescue a bunny in Santa Cruz? Do you have any, uh, little boy say, excuse me, I think you found my buddy. Yeah, that's a spring one, isn't it? Excuse me.

Anything to do with ducklings. Do you have any duckling disputes? Yeah. That's a good spring one. They won't make way. What about little lambs? Do you know, do you know, do you know, do you know, I know a person in Maine, a woman named Ari, who has a sheep company, she keeps herds of sheeps on uninhabited islands. Wow.

If that's you, Ari, send in a dispute, won't you please? It's spring lambin season, and I have dispute with veterinary. There you go. Let us know at Judge John Hodgman. Well, I should say maximum fund.org slash JJHO. That'll send you a cute little form that you can fill out to submit all of your disputes. And we do want all of your disputes, whether it's spring, summer, winter, or fall, or anything else, right, Jesse? Maximumfund.org.

Org. Big or small, we judge them all. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artists-owned shows. Supported. Directly.

By you.