Judge John Hodgman - Strictly Courtroom

Episode Date: October 9, 2013

Ricardo brings the case against his girlfriend Paola. They both love to salsa dance, but Ricardo needs some work on technique. He'd like to perfect his skills out at the salsa clubs, but Paola says she'd rather teach him at home, where they can take it at their own pace. Where should they make their moves? Only one man can decide.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, strictly courtroom. Ricardo brings the case against his girlfriend, Paola. They both love to salsa dance, but Ricardo needs some work on technique. He'd like to perfect his skills out at the salsa clubs, but Paola says she'd rather teach him at home where they can take it at their own pace. Where should they make their moves? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. I was watching TV this morning and there was this major chain restaurant offering these terrific seafood dinner deals, all you can eat. Then I thought about the Japanese reactor that is contaminating the Pacific Ocean. Is there really always going to be shrimp for everybody?

Meat for everybody? A piece of marble counter for everybody? Water for everybody? We are living in denial. A delusion overwhelmingly based on this cyber reality that we are so dependent on. We really believe that we are connected, but we are not. It is a tenuous and tangible connection to the world that we rely upon for communication, entertainment, and information, but we have no real control over it. We don't even understand how it works. It's

like magic, but we don't control it at all. We can be monitored or cut off at any time, and there's not much we can do about it. If nothing electrical worked, that would include the electronics in your vehicles, no GPS, no radio, things we depend on and take for granted like podcasts that are not in our control. We would be separated by great distances that would be close to impossible to overcome. The only thing left we'd have is fire. That's how far away we are from our caveman ancestors. Passing thought. You know, I could go for one of those seafood specials tonight while the getting's good. But for now, Jesse, swear him in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? You swear? I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his only dancing is the foxtrot

and he only dances it in circa 1920s dance marathons. I do. Yes. Very well, Judge Hodgman. I actually did do a good job perfecting the Charleston when I was about 14 years old because I was a fan of the It's a Wonderful Life. But first of all, you may be seated. Second, for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors,

Ricardo, Paola, am I pronouncing that correctly, Paola? Paola. Paola. Paola. Paola. Just say Paola. Paola. Wait a minute,

I've worked on Paola for so long. Paola. That's Paulie. That's Pauly. Pauly. Pauly and Richie. For an immediate summary, in your favors, Rick and Paola, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? It's, I want to say CNN. I don't know cnn no i have no idea you have no you have no idea no there's no way there's no way you would know this is a blog post

from saturday august 31st 2013 do you know whose blog i was quoting from 2013. Do you know whose blog I was quoting from? No. Does the name Willie Colon mean anything to you? Yes. It does, right? Tell the people who Willie Colon is. He's a famous salsa musician. Famous?

Singer. Oh, Willie. No, no, no. I'm so sorry. Trombonist. Trombonist. Hector Laveau was the singer there's also a singer Willie Compose for Hector

he composed and he was a singer too so now I stand corrected, thank you Paula you're welcome famous, famous and in fact he came when I was educated at Yale University accredited four year college in southern Connecticut. polyrhythms and the clave which is of course the soul of salsa which is uh which is a combination of cuban sewn music and and and traditional afro-cuban uh uh dance uh called the rumba

and that is what you dance so see i know a thing or two actually i know those two things and that's and now i'm going to quit you know the history but one of the things about willie cologne that i learned from that class and which is part of his uh his great legacy is that he's an incredibly socially conscious dude and while i was searching him i came across his blog and he takes on some serious issues on his blog including connectivity and uh and uh sustainability of the seas, and also lays down some heavy stuff about gun control. I'm digging it a lot.

So please, everyone, go to willycologne.com. I'm presuming that it is he who is writing this stuff. It might be that the 25-year-old that he hired to run his website is going crazy, and Willie Cologne has no idea. But it's not bylined it's on willie cologne.com dash news or slash news check it out anyway hello hello you like to salsa dance um yes i love to salsa dance all the lives to salsa dance but ricardo you hate to dance and are joyless in your life and that is why you bring this case no no no i i like dancing too tell me how tell me how you met what your relationship status is and why salsa is coming between you starting in three two one go um well we met the uh a friend of ours who's

a like a director she starred in in his short film and i was the sound designer and composer of it and they became good friends and i was already good friends with him. And we met through him, essentially. Yeah. You starred in the short film, Paola? Yes. All right. Co-starred. Co-starred. Very well.

And do I understand correctly that you both have ancestry from Puerto Rico? Yes. We were essentially born and raised here. So we are Puerto Rican, 100%. You were born and raised in Puerto Rico? Yes. We were essentially born and raised here. So we are Puerto Rican, 100%. You were born and raised in Puerto Rico? Oh, yeah. And you live there now? Am I speaking to you in Puerto Rico?

Yes. What is your position on statehood? Oh, no. That's going to make this a very long podcast. Yes, let's not. Let's not very long podcast. Yes, let's not. Let's not get into that. No, it's not. It's a simple, we want it or we don't want it, or I want it and she doesn't, or she does and I don't.

Would you like to be in the United States? Okay, essentially for me, no. Okay, fine. Good. Yes or no. Ricardo? I think it detracts from other issues that argument. We get distracted by that argument and we forget other things.

Such as your dispute over salsa dancing. Yes. It overshadows the important issues. Yes. now that you have this international podcast of international fake law as your bully pulpit, what serious issue do you think is overshadowed by the debate

over statehood in Puerto Rico? Government corruption. I don't know. Everything. I don't know what happened. I think we just got, we lost them somehow. The whole internet was shut down from Puerto Rico just then. Oh my gosh.

So weird. But now, to the heart of things, salsa. Yes. Paolo, you love to dance. Ricardo, you don't love to dance. I do. I do love to dance Ricardo you don't love to dance I do I do love to dance he likes to dance he's just not that good at it

how bad is he how can I rate him he knows the steps but just the basic one and he gets lost easily and he doesn't have his He wanders off the dance floor into like the

outer hallway or something? Exactly. Nah, nah. He gets lost in steps. I cannot dance the salsa. Nor can I dance almost any dance that is any dance that is beyond sort of eighth grade slow dance level.

You know what I mean? Or medium tempo, too. I can rock a medium tempo. But I don't know any special. But this is a dance that has special steps, correct? Yes. And there's no. All right.

yes yes and there's no and there's no so all right so what does salsa for those of us who have neither danced nor or observed a lot of salsa dancing what what what is what is it all about it's about being seductive and and sexy i guess and um having fun too, I guess. That's all pretty abstract, and I have to say exciting. But just in terms of the steps. The steps? Well, okay. Is it a formally complex dance?

Well, I'd say so. You say so? Yeah. All right. So here's the thing. So Paolo's over there just saying it's seductive and exciting. And obviously... Which obviously is why I want to dance. Yeah. And obviously she feels the salsa in an intuitive way that you do not, Ricardo.

How would you... Why is the salsa so hard to learn? Well, I mean, for me, it's really not that complicated either but it's just like the basic steps aren't very complicated at least it's just this constant sort of you're always you you have this basic step of like you move forward then center then back then center and as you try to keep rhythm on that you're also spinning around and you have to keep in mind that when you're done in this spin you have to move back or you have to spinning around and you have to keep in mind that when you're done in this spin you have to move back or you have to move forward or you have to like continue the spin

until you untangle your arms somehow um go ahead paula you want to jump in oh well i could tell you like by um the counts that it involves, I guess. Yeah, it's kind of this, like you said, the clave is the rhythm by which it is based, but it's not always there. It's kind of implied. You have to just be familiar with it. And the clave, for those who don't know, is a very typical, I mean, it's a pervasive rhythmic pattern in all of latin american music which is a three beats followed by two beats or two beats followed by three beats

in a couple of different things so i mean you you would that is that is the that is the ultimate northeastern way of describing what is basically something you already know in your hearts podcast listeners it's or yeah right those are the two that i know yes there are others right i wouldn't know more but i guess the basic one is variations that one i love having a clapping party on the podcast john great job hey thanks oh that is it that is a norteno clap if i've ever heard one completely ungroovy all right so you agree that that Ricardo is bad and does not understand this.

I don't think I'm bad. Okay. He knows the basic step, like moving forward and backward. But once he needs to turn or like, yeah, turn or like, or that direct me sort of lead the man is supposed to lead but right now I have to lead him

is leading an important role in salsa? it is, it's what makes it for me it's what makes it fun because I don't essentially have to think about it, I just have to follow and that's it you don't want have to think about it. I just have to follow and that's it. You don't want to lead.

You want to be led. Exactly. But this idiot man child isn't up to the task. Yep. So how do you propose resolving this dispute or this problem? I should say, Paola. I told him that I could teach him at my house. Or like, yeah, because then we can talk.

We don't have this noise around us. And we have this space where we can work around, you know, dance and swing and all of that. And you don't want to do that, Ricardo? Because I'm telling you, I'm a married man and I'm halfway out the door now. I don't understand what your problem is. Well, it's not a problem.

First of all, she forgot to mention that the first time she proposed this idea, she mentioned that her mom would be there to give more pointers. She could teach us. I want to meet your mom, too. I'm ready. Well, he knows my mom already. But my mom is the one who taught me and my siblings and my cousins cousins you know so she could now wait a minute wait a minute are you offering to teach ricardo the proper way to salsa and the advanced maneuvers

or are you setting ricardo up to be criticized by his mother-in-law thank you jesse i was trying to find a way to phrase that is this a teaching exercise or an exercise in utter humiliation? No, mom would never embarrass him. No, she's too nice to do that. Is she a good dancer? She's a great dancer. Yes. Ricardo, how do you feel about, I said mother-in-law, how do you feel about Paola's mother? mother-in-law how do you feel about uh paula's mother not in a general sense obviously you like her in a general sense paula's right here but um how do you feel about the prospect of her correcting you on things well i i just i'm not too bothered by that i'm just bothered by dancing

in front of her and having her just be like oh well i i guess as far as correcting me in salsa dancing and observing me i i don't necessarily like that too much it's so you like your issue is not her mother and siblings and on all of them observing you and making fun of you, even if they weren't there, would you feel uncomfortable with this proposition? In that case, I wouldn't be uncomfortable. I just think it's a lot more fun to go out to make like an occasion out of it

and go and see some live music and at the same time learn how to dance a bit better. Paola, are you just embarrassed of your boyfriend? No. I think that's what it is, honestly. Well, no, that's a fair question, though. Paola, why is Ricardo's counterproposal to learn while doing not satisfactory? Because we tried it once.

And tell me what happened. It was loud, and it was crowded and we were bumping into everyone and i had to scream and he couldn't understand me so it's just an uncomfortable situation to dance or to learn how to dance i learned in my house and then i practiced you know at parties at family parties where there's less people and less noise right and then i would go out to festivals and and dance with my with my family right that's how i learned so you so you practiced at home first you got your steps right yes before you brought them before them you brought them to the floor sort Sort of, yeah.

Speaking of the noise, is there a lot of verbal instruction in salsa instruction? Is there a lot of verbal cues that you have to give? Your step here, put your hand here, that sort of thing? Yes, at least with the steps you have to count

out loud and where to put your foot next and your hand, what to do. There's a lot of, yeah. All right. Is there a difference in opinion with regard to Ricardo's dancing level? Paola, scale of one to ten. Ten being a salsa, a master salsa dancer. One being me.

Okay. Where are you? And where is Ricardo? Ricardo, close your ears. Where am I? Yeah. Scale of one to 10. Oh man.

7.5. Okay. Would you give me more? Or like an eight? I don't know. I think seven is good. Seven, yeah. Wow. And Yeah. Wow.

And Ricky. Wow. You just rounded down your girlfriend. And Ricky? He's a four. No, I'm kidding. He's a five. No, let's go with your original answer.

Four. Four to five. You can round him down. He rounded you down. Yeah. Ricardo, scale of 1 to 10. Where are you on that scale and where's Paola? I'd say that's pretty accurate.

So, okay. 4 and 7. All right. So, really the question is, do you want to become a better salsa dancer, Ricardo? Yeah, yeah. That's like I've always wanted to. I never really had the chance. Now, I have a girlfriend who enjoys dancing.

And wants to teach you, but you don't want to take the opportunity. Right. For me to understand exactly how a salsa lesson would work in the home versus up in the club, I need you to give Ricardo and me a radio dance lesson. A radio dance lesson? Yeah. Obviously, you guys are not wearing lav mics.

You can't dance around without losing the mic. But can you give him a dance lesson so I can hear how it goes? Okay. Audibility is a real issue here. Yeah. Can you do that? I can do how it goes. Okay. Audibility is a real issue here. Yeah, yeah. Can you do that? I can do that, yeah.

Can you? I guess she's that good a dancer. Yeah. I think 7.5 was pretty fair. Okay. I don't know what you're trying. I'm trying to teach you. Okay.

Do you guys need me to clap? Okay, my palms are getting tired. So it goes like at least for the woman it's left foot front and you count and then in the middle and then right foot back and that's how you dance. Left foot front, and then in the middle and then right foot back

and that's how you dance. Left foot front you meet in the middle and right foot back meet in the middle so it's like 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8. 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8. You know that's not the

ordinary way the numbers go. No it's not but it's also different because way the numbers go. No, it's not. But it's also different because you don't start at one. You start at two. Okay. Now, describe how... Are you guys in dance position now? Two, three, four. No, no. We can go back into dance.

We are now. Sorry. Go into dance. Go into dance position and describe what dance position is. What dance position? Okay. So his right arm. Either my waist or more of my shoulder, my back.

Yeah. If you want to be a little less racy, you put your hand a little bit more to the shoulder plate. That's where I'm touching Jesse Thorne right now. And my left hand is laying on top of that hand, on top of his shoulder. And then we're grabbing our right hand and left hand together, hand in hand. This is very confusing. It's almost like, okay, dancing the waltz.

Oh, it's like the waltz. Oh, Jessie, it's like the waltz. Come on, Jessie, let's do the waltz. As a mid-19th century level white person, I understand your analogy. Thank you. So I'm sorry, I understand your analogy. Thank you.

So I'm sorry. I interrupted your sentence there. It's like the waltz. Yeah. The position of the hands is like the waltz. Okay. How's Ricardo doing now? He's doing great. He's not moving, so he's doing great.

Ha ha ha! Oh, Ricardo, you just got zinged big time. Yeah, I guess I deserve it. With love. So do you want us to move? Yeah. You can't see us.

No, but what I'm going to be listening for is the audio cues, the verbal cues that Paola is giving to you to correct the errors that you're making to see how important being heard is

to the instructional process. And I'm also secretly hoping that one of you falls over. Well, we will get tangled with the headphones probably. Did you guys build the tower of beer cans that we requested?

Nope. Okay, so we're dancing now. Yeah. I'm gonna give it a turn. She just lost her headphones. Yeah, but... She still sounds better than you. He missed a step. I tried to... Okay, he gave me a turn, but he missed a step.

What did he, oh, he missed a step. Yeah. I guess this would illustrate why I think learning at home is a bad example. Well, there isn't music now, so it's not fair. We do have headphones on, so we can't dance. We do have headphones on, so we can't dance. I don't expect the actual lessons will happen with huge Harrison Bergeron-style headphones on to no music. Exactly.

Exactly. I'm just trying to get a sense of the kind of the precision. He missed a step, so there's precision to the dance. Is that not so? Yes. Yeah. And how important is precision to the dance is that not so yeah yeah and how important is precision to the dance you can miss a miss a beat or you can step on someone on your partner or right you can just get completely lost if you miss a beat then you're out of time you're has it has he ever

has he ever stepped on on your feet i don't remember i don't remember maybe a slightly okay or i maybe stepped on him is this a situation where if he is if he is as terrible as you say and he attempts to dance in public that that it would be the people will talk well are people judgmental of the, you know, like, you know, and like in a, like up here, you know, like, first of all, the cohort that I know that go out to see music, they don't dance. They just stand because they're too self-conscious. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But if someone did dance in the sort of northeastern Brooklyn hipster community, we wouldn't know what good dancing is. So we wouldn't really be particularly judgmental.

But in a community, where in Puerto Rico do you live? I live more to the mountains. I live by San Juan. Okay. So where would you go dance? You would go out around san juan because that's that's where that's where that's the that's yeah that's essentially the the the boston massachusetts of puerto rico just just to think of the most the most glorious and a lively city that i can think of uh so if you go dancing in san juan and mess it up, will people notice and will people care?

We've actually had like talked about this between ourselves and with other people that in the States where I went to college in Georgia and people are a lot less judgmental. Well, he was saying that some of my friends were being judgmental about him but i i don't think that's ever i guess no that you you told me you had to stop and be like hey like i don't oh no but you it's not because you were dancing it's because of your singing oh no but it's because i was i was singing a parody of Get Lucky, and they just thought I was some idiot who didn't know the words. What would be the Weird Al take on Get Lucky, Jesse? Get ducky? I mean, there's one that you want to say, but you can't.

It would probably be about a rubber ducky, right? It would probably be about a rubber ducky. Believe me, I love me some weird al but i i feel like it would be about a rubber ducky and it would be it would be like a pastiche of ernie from sesame street doing rubber ducky and daft punks get get lucky and it'd be called get ducky what were you doing a novelty song version of get Lucky or were you pretending to not know the words? Do you know the words? Get Yucky. It's Get Yucky and it's

about eating and making a mess. Or it would be Get Nucky and it would be about Boardwalk Empire. I mean Boardwalk Empire. Get Nucky is probably what it is. It's a Mexican. There's

a video on YouTube about these mariachis singing Get Lucky up words that sound sort of like that are in Spanish but sound like Get Lucky. But my point is that it was the same kind of... What does it

sound like exactly, Ricardo? Sing. He says Uriapan Mexican son. They used to say Uriapan Mexican son, Uriapan Mexican lucky. They just say. Just sing it. Yeah, I think this really gets to the heart of it doesn't it that there is something stopping you from fully committing to the embarrassing to the embarrassing self-conscious excuse me there's something there's something self-conscious in you that is prohibiting you from committing

to the embarrassing but incredibly joyful activity of singing and dancing properly unless you are in the dark and drunk at a club i think so i'm gonna ask you that's really hard of a problem i think i'm gonna ask you one more time ricardo will you please sing get lucky now yeah yeah um lucky now. Yeah, yeah. I can sing it with you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, you know what? I'll allow it. I'll allow the duet. It sounded great there. I shouldn't have

drowned you out. Please go. Okay. Uriapa Mexican son. Uriapa Mexican son. Uriapa Mexican son. please go okay put up a mexican sun put up a mexican sun put up a mexican sun put up a mexican lucky that's that's all they do i've heard everything i need to hear i i'm going i'm going i am going to uh moonwalk to my chambers and i will be back in a moment to render my decision please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom ricardo how are you feeling about your chances i felt i felt all right till the very end um

but uh i guess he might have gotten to something that not even i was aware of i guess paula are you aware that you're the first woman ever to be upset with her boyfriend because he wants to take you out to a club? No, I wasn't aware, but I am now, I guess. How do you feel about your chances? I don't know. I guess he'll still have to learn salsa. We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say. We'll be back after a short break with Judge Hodgman's verdict.

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. I could lie and say that I danced into the courtroom, but the reality is that I am not a natural dancer. And even that clave sounded pretty stiff, I have to say, even to my ears. Even to my Massachusetts ears. I'm not a natural dancer. And as an only child and member of the super smart, super self-conscious narcissist club, I am terrified of dancing. And I am equally terrified of singing, even though I do it and sometimes even occasionally in public

and it is uh it is the same terror that uh a sensitive child feels uh or really any any young person feels when they take their first sex ed class it is embarrassing to deal to deal with feelings and to deal with the vulnerability that you expose when you dance or sing or speak about penises in public, any time because you are convinced on some level that the world has never experienced what you've had to say or how you've moved or how badly you sing before and that it will stand in judgment of you and you will become a pariah from the society you already don't feel a part of. Sorry, I wasn't talking about you. That was all about me. feel a part of. Sorry, I wasn't talking about you. That was all about me. But I do recognize in you some of me in the sense that when I do dance, when I do sing, when I do talk about penises, it is usually, sorry, why did I go on the sex ed thing some oh this is why i went on the sex ed thing because i was recently uh at a at an event and a man was telling me about bringing his son to a sex ed class uh his son was 13 or or whatever age you start doing these things 12 or whatever start learning about your body and the instructor said uh all right there's only one way to deal with this, and this is to completely desensitize you.

Everyone chant with me, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. I'm sorry, parents, for listening to this, but this is something your kids are going to have to hear. And the whole room had to chant that word until it just became what it is, a completely natural word. In many ways, learning to dance and learning to sing in public, unless you are the rare sociopath to whom it comes absolutely naturally, is a matter of desensitizing yourself to embarrassment. And while all of that pathology that I just described really truly only applies to me, because God knows, Ricardo, you've actually been out dancing salsa and I have never done it. So you obviously are better, you are well ahead in your program compared to me.

But I do recognize in you what I said before I left to go to chambers, which was that there is an element of you that would prefer to desensitize yourself to the potential embarrassment by doing it in a darkened room under the influence of alcohol and under the pretense of fun. Because you are able to get lucky in spanish in a mariachi style in a club but when it comes to sitting in your room next to your girlfriend on an international podcast you freeze up and similarly you're willing to quote unquote learn to salsa dance better than you already do in a club, but only after you've had, uh, only in the, in the cover of darkness and in the, and in the warm forgiveness, presumably of a, of a couple of drinks, or at least knowing that the people

around you are, are, are drinking and, or more interested in their own good dancing to care about your bad dancing. You hesitate to learn to dance in the harsh daylight that would be streaming in through your girlfriend's home as her mother looks on. And you would have no excuse. But this is how we learn. That is the desensitization that you require. Because salsa dancing, I imagine, is a little bit like driving period and a little bit more like driving a manual transmission, which is something we talk about here on the podcast quite a bit. It is an extremely specialized task that requires very specific movements in order to not stall out or have an accident. And therefore, you can't really learn it while doing, I mean, you have to learn it while doing to some degree, but you can't just go out there and learn to drive a manual transmission by jumping in the car and going on a weekend drive or driving down the highway.

You are going to die and cause others harm. And similarly, salsa is not something that I would like, is not something you can learn on the dance floor. I think it's something you need to learn through patient instruction so that you do not miss the steps, so that you do not step on girlfriend's toes, so that you do not try to cover up for your subpar dancing by singing a novelty song from the internet. That's where you're going to get embarrassed. I think that you saw where this was going the entire time. But let me tell you something. Your argument that why not have fun while learning is undermined by the fact that you know

learning is not fun. Learning is painful. Learning is awkward. Learning is essentially admitting that you don't know something that you're embarrassed not to know, that is the hard part of learning. of not being sophisticated and the embarrassment of not being a grown person who you know or whatever the embarrassment of not knowing is it's beaten out of you until you can finally learn when i was on the set of uh of a horror movie called the messengers outside of regina saskatchewan which by the way is also something you are forced to chant over and over and over again in sex ed class. Saskatchewan, Saskatchewan. Stop it, Jesse.

You're embarrassing me. When I was a magazine journalist, I was writing a profile of these two directors of horror films. Their names are Danny and Oxide Pang. And they had directed a great Asian horror movie called The Eye. And then they were directing this English language horror movie called The Messengers that came out. And it's a pretty good movie. And they shot it in a fake sunflower field

outside of a fake farmhouse in Regina, Saskatchewan. And I'm walking through the fake sunflower field with the lead actress in that movie. And she's saying to me, it's difficult to work with them sometimes because they really know what they want. And sometimes as an actor, you want to bring something to the screen and and sometimes

there's a clash and danny ox danny pang is saying over and over to me you have to empty your cup to drink from my tea and i was like yeah that meant that and and i was like wow that's deep and she's like i don't even know what that means no she knew what it meant she was very smart you know like you know like to to learn something you have to admit you don't know you have to admit to what you don't know or forget what you are already now hey look i'm i'm the one who's making these half-baked aphorisms here. Sorry. First, you must unlearn what you have learned. Yoda. Yoda.

Good point. Actually, you know what? You're right. Yoda didn't train Luke Skywalker by letting him immediately become a Jedi and bringing him to the Jedi Council to show off his stuff. Yoda trained Luke Skywalker in a swamp where no one could see.

And he didn't let Luke Skywalker off the hook. No, you need to go to the Dagobah of salsa, which is your girlfriend's apartment. You, you have to empty your cup and drink from her tea and her mother's tea. You have to desensitize yourself to your embarrassment. Break down what you think you know and learn what you don't know. And practice, practice, practice. That's how you get to Carnegie Hall. You don't just show up on stage and start moving around singing Get Lucky.

Look, if you were going to a seventh grade dance, I'd totally tell you, just do whatever you want. If you were going to a Lollapalooza or to a Gathering of the Juggalos, of course you don't need to take any lessons. But this is salsa,

man. You gotta learn it. Learn. Therefore, I find in favor of Paola, as I think all of Puerto Rico and the world knew I was going to go get some lessons. And only when she says you are ready to move to the club

then you may go to the club otherwise you got to wallflower it this is the sound of a gavel judge john hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom ricardo how do you feel i guess He's crying no I'm kidding Well I guess it's a fair Fair call I guess I still feel like Like I dance a bit better Than people are giving me credit for

But it's okay How do you feel about the prospect Of your girlfriend's mom correcting your technique that'll be fine i can deal with that is she gonna cook something like really nice for you to eat afterwards or something to like mend the wounds yeah yeah paula how do you feel i feel good i mean I came in here thinking I thought I was going to lose the case actually but apparently I didn't

well Paolo Ricardo thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast it was a pleasure to have you thank you for solving this case thank you guys. Judge Hodgman, I literally grew up one block from one of the largest salsa clubs on the West Coast, Caesar's Latin Palace, which I believe is closed in San Francisco now. But I and I you couldn't and I love listening to salsa music, but I could not salsa dance my way out of a

wet paper bag. I couldn't even wet the bag, to tell you the truth. No matter how much you'd had to drink. Exactly. Here's something here's something from Chris. My girlfriend and I split use of her car. She owns it and drives it most of the time, and I usually drive us around on weekends.

Our issue is locating and retrieving the car keys. Who grabs them when you're going out the door? My girlfriend says it's the driver's responsibility to get the keys. I say she's the daily driver and owner of the car and would know the keys' last location. The keys are usually in her purse, except when they're not, and she thinks I should magically know their location at all times. The issue has reached a roiling boil of breathy sighs and muttered curses, and I fear it may tear our pleasant weekends apart. I seek damages or fair compensation for being the one who usually

ends up going back into the house to find the keys. You know, I get a lot of guff on the social medias, Jesse, when I am hearing cases between a boyfriend and a girlfriend or romantic partners of any gender or especially husbands and wives or spouses that I usually will find in favor of the wife or in this last case, the girlfriend. And you know what the reality is, folks? I call them as I see them. I'm not prejudiced in any way. I call them as I see them. So here's one. Boyfriend, girlfriend.

Guess who's wrong? Girlfriend. You're wrong, girlfriend. You can't have this guy telepathically know where the keys are at all times. That's a word. I made it up. You know, if he's going to do the driving and you are the regular driver, you've got to put the keys in a key bowl or on a hook

or you got to keep them in a regular place if you want him to know where those keys are otherwise just hand him the keys see sometimes girlfriends are wrong i think if you go back i would love for someone to go back through the archives and just and do the tally i bet you on a scattergraph i do find more often in favor in a heterosexual relationship in the favor of the woman than the man. But that's because men are usually dumb. Sorry. And speaking of dumb men, by the way, I spent some time after that one just looking up the story that I wrote about Danny and Oxide Pang. They're from Hong Kong, but they work in Bangkok, at least when I wrote about them. And you can find the whole story

still on the New York Times Magazine website, published July 23rd, 2006, called The Haunting by John Hodgman. Check it out. Buzzmark. Next talk. Here's something from Adam. My best friend Zach and I are both screenwriting majors at USC. We go to the movies fairly often together and usually share a large popcorn. The large popcorn is a good size to split between the two of us and a great way

to save money at the movies. We're in college, so saving money is key. The problem is that Zach refuses to have extra butter added to his popcorn. I think that extra butter is an absolute necessity to the movie theater popcorn experience. I think we should at least switch

off extra butter, then no extra butter each time. It's not fair that I have to spend more money to get an individual popcorn in order to get my preference, extra butter. What say you, Judge Hodgman? Well, I love that you guys are best friends, and I appreciate that finances are always, first and foremost,

on the mind of college students when they're explaining why they couldn't buy the book that they came to the college bookstore to hear you read from and instead give you a scrubby piece of paper for you to sign as they walk away. I get it, college students. You're broke. Sorry, I was a little mad. That's something that happened to me in 2008. Sorry. Sorry about that. A little bitter. But here's the thing. The image of you guys sitting there sharing a popcorn, particularly a popcorn that might have extra butter, and just seeing you guys put your greasy fingers into this popcorn and then put it into your mouth over and over again is gross to me. I think you should get separate popcorns. I think this is an investment not only in good hygiene, but also in each of your own happiness because you clearly like things

differently. Just because you're best friends doesn't mean you have to eat out of the same corn trough. Particularly. Is that how they're doing it? Troughs these days? Pretty much. Mostly at your fancy Alamo Drafthouse type movie theaters is where you get

a nice trough. I swear when I was a kid at the circle cinema in cleveland circle brookline massachusetts there was a thing sometime in the i'm gonna say late 70s early 80s where where people who are coming to the movie together could literally buy a trough that would cover their laps over two seats. And I've never seen, and there would be a hole in each end of the trough and it would be filled with popcorn. And I guess they would have fun sort of tipping the trough, getting the popcorn. If anyone remembers this and can point me to any documentation of this thing, I would

be very glad because it feels like a fever dream that I had, but I know that it happened. But yeah, dudes, first of all, eating that popcorn, like the fact that you're buying popcorn at all, already you are wasting your money. Someone who used to work in a movie theater, that stuff is pure profit. You are eating garbage food, literally hog feed at an incredible markup such that you are exuberantly wasting your money even if you're sharing one if you break it down into two small popcorns uh then you are the waste is compounded minimally compared to the amount of pleasure you're going to get by putting extra quote unquote butter onto the popcorn and the pleasure that your friend is going to get by eating popcorn that is not disgusting. So split it up, dudes.

Sorry, you're going to have to. Sometimes college students, I want you to understand this. You have to pay for the stuff you want. You know what I mean? You can't just bit torrent everything, including the popcorn you want. You got to pay for a book that you want. You got to pay for a popcorn that you want. You got to pay for a popcorn that you want. You got to pay for the things you want.

Go out there, get a job, earn some extra popcorn money, and be the way you want to be. Fair enough. I have two things that I want to discuss, two things I want to plug, two buzz markets that I want to do. One is you all know that I'm traveling the country doing these live comedy performances, including some great upcoming shows with my friends Eugene Merman and Kristen Schaal. I'm not going to belabor the point.

Go to johnhodgman.com slash tour. You'll see all the details of where I'm coming to your town. Well, where I'm coming to your town. I'm coming to your town. When I'm coming to your town, I guess is what I want to say. coming to your town when i'm coming to your town i guess is what i want to say i also since we were talking i love this salsa music but there's also space in life for some good massachusetts music is there not sure i don't see why not you know the the king of salsa is willie cologne the king of massachusetts all says jonathan richmond i did a terrible imitation of a jonathan richmond

song in one of the cultural references a couple of podcasts back. But luckily, a young man named Matt Reed came along to correct my error by layering down my terrible vocal tracks over an original cover of the Jonathan Richmond song. And he's put it online, and it's one of the greatest things I've ever heard. I normally don't do this, but I loved it so much. You can check it out at mattreid.bandcamp.com and find it on his band camp. It's called Podcast On. Take a listen. And don't forget Southern Californians. I've got a live show coming up October 25th at KPCC's Crawford Family Forum in Pasadena. It's a bullseye live

show with Bill Hader and Jasper Redd and others. You can find the show link on our website, MaximumFun.org. Get some tickets. Come say hi. You can't do better than Jasper Redd and Bill Hader, everybody. They're real good. You can't do better than Jesse Thorne, everybody.

Best interviewer in the country. Aw, thanks, John. I think so. Our name this week came courtesy of both Rob and Alan. Thank you, Rob and Alan. Did they hit upon it independently, or did they

collaborate on it? I believe it was independent, and yes, Julia is confirming it's independent. So parallel thought. Like Isaac Newton and Leibniz with the calculus. Nice job, guys. If you want to name a future episode of the program, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook and we send out regular updates or follow me and John.

John is at Hodgman. I'm at Jesse Thorne on Facebook. Just. John is at Hodgman. I'm at Jesse Thorne. On Facebook, just search for Judge John Hodgman. Our thanks to Julia Smith, our producer. Am I forgetting anything? Well, if you have a dispute that you would like to have heard in this international court of fake internet law, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho to submit your case. Large or small, we judge them all. Smarger Law.

Goodbye. Bye. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online

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