Judge John Hodgman - Suing, and a Mistrial

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

Mike brings the case against his coworker Brooke. Brooke wants to play baseball with her colleagues in a casual, recreational setting. She would love Mike to be part of this group. But he won’t step foot on the field unless it’s a softball field. Brooke says baseball and softball are essentially the same game! Just play ball! But, Mike strongly disagrees.  For Mike's full, unedited presentation, click here. BROOKLYN! See you this weekend at the Bell House for NIGHT COURT! Get your tickets here: Friday, March 6, Saturday, March 7 Thanks to reddit user u/banjo_solo for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Follow Judge John Hodgman on: YouTube: @judgejohnhodgmanpod Instagram: @judgejohnhodgman TikTok: @judgejohnhodgmanpod Bluesky: @judgejohnhodgman Reddit: r/maximumfun Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething. Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes, discounts on our merch, and more by joining us at: maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, suing and a mistrial. Mike brings the case against his coworker Brooke. Brooke wants to play baseball with her colleagues in a casual recreational setting. She would love Mike to be part of this group, but he won't step foot on the field unless it's a softball field. Brooke says baseball and softball are essentially the same game. Just play ball. But Mike strongly disagrees. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide, please rise. As Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Play softball with the guys, wife made curly fries.

Drink about four odules, grounded out, two pop flies. In the Buick down western, stop and gets more brats, on sale, chicken, Italian sausages, and orange pop. Bailiff, Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Mike and Brooke, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever. Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he went to a San Francisco Giants game without me?

I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. It wasn't on purpose, Jesse. I was invited by our daughter, and we went, and can I get a hoo-ya? Who-ya. Thank you. Yeah. That's something on the internet that I discovered about baseball.

Anyway, Brooke and Mike, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favorites. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Why don't we start with you, Brooke? Gosh, I'm going to guess it's a rapper from the 90s, like Nas or something like that. A rapper from the 90s like Nas was in my video for my promotional video for my book, That Is All, back in 2011. directed by Tom Sharpling. So I'll put that in the guest book for sure. I've got to write that here.

Everyone can see on the YouTube that I'm absolutely writing this down. There you go. Those are not my notes from a conversation I had with David Reese earlier this week. That is your guess, Brooke. That is. Now, Mike. That was a good guess. I like that guess.

Mike, I'm going to write your guest down too. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to write it down. What is your guess? I think I'm just going to go with my pre-slugged guess, which is an episode of Dicktown, the mystery of the marauding mascot. I believe that rap was spoken by the smoking baby. Wow.

I love that deep cut. I'm actually going to write that down. D.E. This is taking too long, but I did it. Deep cut. Thank you very much, the mystery of the marauding mascot starring Mike the Do Boys Mitchell as the marauding mascot grubby,

based on gritty. Was it? Yeah, did you think? Didn't catch that. Didn't catch that upscar. Jesse, you know about baseball and you know about rap music. Do you have a guess as to who that was? I think you probably have a guess, maybe.

I was kind of spacing out at the time. Well, let me read it to you again, Jesse, but you know what? I'm going to read you the, you might recognize the chorus more than that particular lyric. I know that you love it when I speak, sing, sing, rap lyrics. So it goes, this is the chorus and the start of the song. Favorite actor, Denahee, favorite drink, oh, Dulls, bears, hawks, socks, bulls. Do you got it now, Jesse?

I do not have any idea what the cultural records like. This is a friend of our friend, Open Mike Eagles. His name is David Cohn, but his rap name is Serengeti out of Chicago. 2006, his novelty rap hit Denahey, which was released, narrated by Serengeti's character, Kenny Davis, a washed-up, recovered alcoholic Chicago rapper who now mostly raps about brats, Jardinara, Portilla's Italian beef, his Buick Skylark, and of course softball, but a particular kind of softball. You know what kind of softball it is?

You know David Cohn is a famous baseball player, right? This is David Cohn, who is the great nephew of the saxophonist Sunny Cone. Yeah, so I'm going to go ahead and say this is a different David Cohn, but it's really, really throwing me for a loop here. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to throw you for a loop there, Jesse. Yeah. Play softball with the guy's wife made curly fries. Drink about four old.

He goes on the rest of it goes. This week, fishing trip, got to get some new flies. Wife packed turkey subs, Jays, chips, and peach pies. Watch a little Denahey. Pull out the laser disc. Sniper one, two, and three. Tom Berringer makes great flicks. He loves Brian Dennyhy and Tom Derringer.

Tom Berringer, excuse me. Berringer being Chicago born, Dennyhee being famous for originating a lot of Eugene O'Neill performances in Chicago. But what is Chicago also famous for, if not softball, but a particular kind of softball, right, Mike? Slow pitch. Mike, you're the softball guy here, right? And Brooks, the baseball person, right?

The answer is candlepin. Candlepin softball? That's a good one. Duckpin? I'm talking about 16-inch softball. I'm talking about mush ball. I'm talking about clincher. It's the candle pin bowling of softball.

You play it with a with a big with a big ball, 16 inches. Like the size of a cabbage? Yeah, 16 inch ball made by clincher. It's called a clincher. And you, and you, you play it with 10 people and no fielders where there are no gloves. So people are are getting their thumbs knocked out a joint all the time. And over the course of the game, the ball is called mush ball because it gets mushyer and mushyer and mushyer and safer and safer and less, less finger breaky as you go. played, you know, it was like, it's a local thing that I guess people love it still.

Elena Kagan played mush ball when she was at the University of Chicago. Gary Seneese played mushball. And a lot of like, sort of like different sort of like work teams kind of deal. Anyway, mush ball. Softball was invented in Chicago. Did you know that, Mike? I did not. It was invented in 1887 Thanksgiving Day, a bunch of sports writers and other folks.

were gathered at the Farragut Boat Club to receive by telegraph the receive of what famous football game? The results of what famous football game played in Thanksgiving, 1887? I'm just going to go ahead and tell you, Mike, talking about the Yale Harvard game. Guess what?

Yale won. Boo-a-boa! And then there was a little agitation between the Yale and Harvard alums there in Chicago. So this one sports guy, what was his name, George Warren Hancock, sports writer, balled up an old boxing glove with twine and said,

let's play ball. And they used a broomstick. And that was the beginning of softball. And that became what was later known, they formalized it, became known as kiddie ball or indoor outdoor softball. And then, of course, it started as always underhand,

but then fast-pitched softball evolved. That became an Olympic sport. And it was always a sport that was played more at a sort of like a fun evening in the park level like neighborhood league more than professional league as you well know I'm sure but only Chicago do they still play it with a big mushy 16 inch ball that's so there you go I used the internet to get here and I pretended to know about rap and sports this is my Jesse Thorne cosplay for you today appreciate it so let's get into it who seeks justice in this courtroom baseball or softball all right softball

Tell me what's going on. Brooke was waxing nostalgic about a traditional faculty, staff, student game at the school where we teach and said, we should play. And she said, baseball. And I said, I don't play baseball. I said, I'll play it if it's softball. At which point, she said, they're the same game. At which point I applied to the court for ruling. And you want me to rule that softball and baseball are not the same.

game because that's pretty easy. That's the main part of the ruling. And further, if Brooke organizes a baseball game, I don't have to play. So Brooke, you and Mike are colleagues. Yes. You mentioned that your teachers, where do you teach and what's going on? We teach in Omaha, Nebraska. We teach at Millard West High School. We're theater teachers. And we eat lunch together. So there's all sorts of topics that come up when we. Another couple of Nebraska's. We just had a couple of Nebraskaans on the show, but they were from what is it, Lincoln, college town.

A couple more mudbugs or bug eaters. That's what the Nogeters. Excuse me. Yeah. Excuse me. So you teach, I'm sorry, high school, did you say? Yes, we teach high school, theater and English. Fantastic.

In the Big O, Omaha. I've been there. I like it. It's fun. Yeah, fun town. And you wanted to start a faculty baseball regular baseball match. Well, we've actually had, we've had a few games in the past.

And so I said, we should get a game together. We used to call it the Ultimate Baseball Championship. And we would just play with whatever kids and teachers were free. And so I was like, we should do it. And Mike said, no way. Only if it's softball. And I'm like, what's the difference? The same game.

Wait, that ultimate baseball championship was played, it was students and teachers. Yeah. In an Octagon? Yeah, there's a chain. Fence. To the death. Yes. We always lost a player every year.

Whoa. That's not true. Come on. No. No. And so you want to relaunch ultimate baseball championship. Ultimate Bloodsport baseball, Nebraska style or whatever.

And Mike, you're saying, no, I don't want to do that because it's baseball. Why not, Mike? Well, I suppose we could just get right into the childhood. trauma. But I did play baseball. Yeah. And I did not enjoy baseball. I am, I like sports, but back to the octagon, I'm more of a combat sports person. I teach martial arts and self-defense. I'm also a combat choreographer in theater. That's my- It seems like you'd be perfect for Octagon baseball. Yes. If it's Octagon baseball, we can, I probably wouldn't have filed the case. But I didn't enjoy baseball in my youth for a number of reasons. And recreationally speaking, if I'm going to walk

on to a field to have a good time, I would much rather play softball because the entry point for people who are bad at the game for softball is gentler than the entry point for people who are bad at baseball. Just like for people who are bad at racket sports, pickle balls entry point is a gentler entry point than tennis. So softball, if you're bad and you miss or you know, you hit it, you don't have to run as far. Baseball, you've got the overhanded pitch. It's coming at your head, right? You're running all over the field. It's mostly going for a long walk after a ball that you don't particularly like. You said let's get into the trauma, but I don't feel like we got into what happened. What happened? Oh, I wasn't particularly good and I wasn't on a very developmentally,

oriented team. So my lack of hitting ability and my lack of fielding ability caused me to be you know, sort of picked on and bullied and then I got hit with a pitch and I wasn't allowed to go hit the pitcher

back, which for me was a psychological problem. How old were you? How old were you seven? Oh, when I got hit with the pitch, probably closer to 11 or 12. Yeah. But I started playing t-ball as kid. I can't say I expected to hear from a Judge John Hodgman litigant that their concern with

youth baseball was insufficient reciprocal violence. Right. Not just not just a Judge John Hodgman Liddick and an obvious listener with a lot of deep cuts. Yes. You wanted to punch that. Who was that? Who was the who was the pitcher, Mike? I honestly can't remember. In my memory, his name was Chris. Those Chris's. I don't like Chris. I think Chris was playing the way the league I played and wanted him to play. He was throwing aggressive inside balls. This elementary school?

Well, that been? Yeah, late elementary, early middle. Middle school, I suppose, it's pretty common. I didn't, there was no middle school in Brooklyn, Massachusetts. K through 8. That's way it should be. Usually in rec baseball, kid pitch starts like 11, 12, I think. Okay.

So it would have been around that. Where did he get you? Where did he get you with the ball? Right in my left elbow. Right there. I remember, so the other part of the story is, you know, I went to go hit him and they told me to go take a base. And halfway to first base, I collapsed in a, you know, a sobbing shock of pain heap. And my father and one of the fathers of my teammates tried to make bets on my arm being broken,

but no one would take the bet because everybody wanted to bet that it was. your father was laying bets on your whether your arm was broken or not in the stands he was a corpsman in vietnam okay so his his relationship with trauma is tolerant but this is not numb this is baseball there are rules and one of the rules i believe and i hate to say this mike there's no crying in baseball that's i also broke that rule i know yes yeah that's the one i know so wait before you took the base you got dinged in the in the elbow and then you were you just rushing chris at that moment were you just going to go up there and yeah the pain hadn't quite kicked in yet so i was just like well i have this stick in this hand and he doesn't have a ball anymore so i started forward the mount yeah

that's the truth of it isn't it how far did you get in in terms of your vengeance how well how close did you four or five who pulled you back the umpire the empire the empire was that a teacher or something? I think it was a hired umpire by the league. Higher dump. Usually that'll be a 19 year old getting 20 bucks. Yeah, at the time it seemed like a very grown man, but I'm sure he was only a few years older than me.

I mean, it could be an older alcoholic. He might not stop. Someone whose life has fallen apart in some way. Or occasionally sort of community-oriented Good Samaritan. Yes. Yeah, one and nine. I think it was that one, right? He definitely.

turned me the right way and then he came to check on me when I fell down. Future high school coach. This is rougher than even Octagon baseball. Yes. Well, none of this came out in our conversation at lunch. I'll tell you this is all new. Okay. Aren't you a curious person?

Isn't Mike your friend? Yeah. He has so much trauma that we just never got to this one. There's so many other trauma stories we've heard. I mean, it sounds like he may have taken a few head traumas in his career in martial arts. Yeah, now you could really show Chris what for it. You could probably sweep the leg. Yeah.

Do you ever run into him again? Do you think you would recognize him if you saw him? No, but I've also learned, you know, he probably didn't feel any better about it than I did. No, it's probably true. Yeah. But if one of those teenagers hit you with a pitch, ooh, you could take him down. It would be like Nolan Ryan and on Robin Ventura, just pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. I do think that there might be a risk in the faculty student.

But that's the nice thing about softball is the distance between the players, right? I have suggested that we do contact sports for staff development, but only one or two people have taken me up on that. We did do Kendo in the wrestling room one day. But this is not be between students and teachers. No, that was just faculty. That would be dystopian. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, Brooke, why don't you want to do, it's Kendo again? Is that a Japanese swords? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get to play around a lot with swords on stage and we do big shows. but I also can't touch my toes.

So all the things Mike is good at, I'm not. So we are compliments in that way. Yeah, at my current age, I'd struggle with a balestra ponto. Brooke, how did you land on baseball to begin with rather than softball? I mean, softball for recreational play is, I think, a little bit more common than hardball. Yes, good question. I played recreational softball for 20 years. but when I was a student in high school, which is where I teach.

So I actually went to the high school I teach at. And back then, my friends organized a baseball game. And I went to it and the teachers came out. And a good friend of ours who was also teaching at the time came out and played. So I was just reminiscing about that baseball game. So I never organized that. My friend Jeff was the commish of that and just got this baseball game together. So I said, we should get that ultimate baseball championship group back together and do it.

And Mike was like, no way. But I'm like, well, that's what it was. It was ultimate baseball champion, not softball. Right. So you're trying to, so this is a, I understand that. Wow. So you teach in the high school where you attended. Same building.

Yes. Yes. Same building. What a wild trip. When you have nightmares, what are you doing about? Yep. It's all that building. Never getting out.

I live there. You're never getting out. Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. So you're trying to relive a past glory. I didn't realize that this ultimate baseball championship goes back to your childhood.

Yes. Yeah. Happy memories. No trauma. Lots of fun. No trauma. Okay. And were there any special rules to ultimate baseball championship?

You had to bring your own glove because nobody else had any. And you had to show up at a certain time. That was the only thing. So then we just played Paul. We just played ball. Howard teams chosen. Was it the classic like throw a bat and somebody catches it and then you put the hands on top and just grab the knob? Sometimes we only had enough players to fill the bases and hit.

So we didn't even have to have teams. We would just go play. But whoever could come out came out. And some of years we did have teams and it was just whoever went on one side was on one side. There was no formality to it. Were there any other special rules or regulations and otherwise? And you were playing on a baseball field. Right.

We played on a base. We played on the field at Millard West. Yeah. We played on. I literally don't even know if there was a different, if we only, I think we only had one field at Miller West at the time. So whatever field that was, whether it was baseball or softball, we played on that field at the school.

And we just, yeah, you could throw with a ball. However you could get the ball across the plate. So like some people were throwing the baseball overhand, but some people were throwing it underhand. and we just played. I have a rules question that might not occur to John. You were playing with a baseball,

a hard ball. Yes. If there was only one field at the school, were pitchers pitching from the softball slab or the baseball slab? And were you using

the baseball-based distances or the softball-based distance? Good question. I do remember that there was like two mounds and it's whoever, whatever skills you had, you could choose whatever mound, you know, so that we could actually play, stand at whatever one's most comfortable. You had to pick one of them. You couldn't just be like halfway down, you know, towards the batter, but you could

pitch from wherever. The bases were, I don't know, because it was just whatever bases were on there. Bill, if Jesse Thorne over here thinking I'm not going to ask about the two slabs, wow. Yeah, I actually don't know a ton about the rules of baseball. versus softball. I know that they're different games, but luckily, Mike, you entered some evidence into the discussion, not just evidence, but it looks like a whole deck, a whole presentation that we're going to review. If you're watching on the YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod, you're going to see this. Otherwise, you can check it out on social medias. Mike, why don't you take me through it? Let's take a look at the first slide. First of 75 slides, is that right? Yes, first of 75.

So part of the dispute, and that's where this evidence comes into, play is that Brooke insists that softball and baseball are the same game. And my reason for not wanting to go out for ultimate baseball fun day is that they are wildly different games. So wildly different. Wildly different. Wildly different games, right? And here, of course, we have the field dimensions and composition, which Jesse alluded to. All right. This is Exhibit A. This is a slide that says exhibit A, field field field dimensions and composition. There's a picture of a softball field and a picture of a baseball field. Tell me the difference. So right, the softball mound is flat and is on the slide it says 43 inches, but it's actually 43 feet from the plate. And a softball infield is entirely dirt. And a baseball

has a mound, which is raised and it's 60 feet, six inches from the plate. So wildly different there. And then of course the lines to the from the foul line from home plate to the barricade and the line from home plate and the line around the bases for both games is different, right? Baseball's base path is 90 feet and softball's base path is only 60 feet. That means it's shorter. If I were to run from a home plate to first slab, you call it? First slab? First, first base.

First base. It's a shorter run in softball than it is in baseball. Do I understand that correctly? Right. It's also a shorter pitch. Well, you don't have to tell me about the two slabs already learned about them. Sorry. The softball slab is closer to home plate.

And let me just make sure that I understand when you were playing Ultimate Baseball Championship, were you pitching from the mound, the faraway slab, the baseball slab, or the softball slab? I know that Jesse just went through this with you, but truly I was thinking about slab basin and I wasn't baking and I wasn't paying attention. So please. That's fine. Yeah. We actually would switch off whatever the pitcher was most comfortable with just so everyone had a chance to throw over the plate. Throwing from a mound at 60 feet, six inches overhand with a baseball is tough when you are not in active practice of doing so.

That's why so many people who throw out ceremonial first pitches at baseball games end up looking like fools, even ones who are comfortable throwing a baseball. Yeah. If I ever am invited to throw out a first pitch, which will never happen. But if I ever were, I'm not going to. to throw it. I'm just going to politely hand it to the catcher. Sometimes he got one where like a dog comes and gets it from you. Yeah, I'll do that with a dog. Maybe, maybe you and I can do it together next time. We're in San Francisco together, Jesse and junior can walk it over. Jesse, do you think you could throw a pitch from the mound over the plate? I could, but it would take some warming up and probably two weeks of practicing every few days

to get back into the habit. I haven't played baseball since I was, I mean, other than just to play catch once in a while since I was 15 and, you know, only played slow pitch softball as an adult. Yes. And I want to see the rest of Mike's deck here,

but in some ways I'm thinking like ultimate ultimate baseball championship. It's not that the rules are different. Maybe there are no rules. Maybe that's why. Maybe that's why it's in an octagon. Hmm. Okay. Exhibit B equipment. I'm looking at a picture of a San Diego Padre here, obviously a baseball player. What Padre is that, Mike? Do you know? I don't. Oh, interesting. I just went with, you know, a Bay Area team. And who is the woman? Not in the Bay Area, but go ahead. Oh, sorry. That's San Diego. That's that's south. That's south. Way south. Way south. The woman there is a college. fast-pitch softball player, I believe, from one of the universities in Maine.

Oh, I see what you're trying to do here. Brown noser. Yeah, exactly. Your nose is as brown as a San Diego Padres uniform. No apologies. Then you have a picture of a baseball and you have a picture of a softball. Obviously, the softball is bigger. And in this case, it's safety yellow.

that that greeny tennis ball color, which is safety yellow, weirdly. And then you've got baseball gloves are smaller than fast-pitched softball gloves. Is that what I'm seeing here? Essentially, yes, that the balls are different. They're different weights, different dimensions. The seams on a baseball are raised more than the seams on a softball,

which allows the pitchers to put different actual balls. Yeah. Yeah. And most softball players, I think it might be college regulation now in the infield wear face protection when they're on defense because of the speed reaction time of softball. Where in baseball, typically the only players that are wearing protective headgear are the batters and base runners. Wait, is the speed of softball? Why would you want more protection with softball? I would think baseball would have more potential for injury.

What am I missing? The ball travels faster in baseball, but softball is played at a shorter distance. So the reaction time, I actually have data on this. If we just talk batting, the average reaction time for a baseball player is between 0.4 and 0.5 seconds from pitch to play. Before you give me your data, can I say something to you? Of course. Hey, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I love that.

That's my favorite thing. Did you love that so much? I want everyone on the YouTube to see Jesse Thorne basically grimacing harder than I've ever seen. I'm grievous in my life. That's good. Yeah, John, I loved it. Hey, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Thanks for saying it again.

Give me the data. All right. So it's a 0.4 to 0.5 second reaction time for a baseball player batting against pitch. And in softball, the reaction times are closer to 0.25 to 0.35 seconds. So even though the ball is traveling somewhat slower, And softball. And it's somewhat softer, I imagine, but it still, it could hit you and could hurt. Yes.

And it gets between players much faster. So the reaction time required to play fast pitch softball successfully is quite high. Exhibit C pitching, obviously baseball is pitched overhand. Both fast pitch and slow pitch are underhand, correct? In softball? Yes. And just so that you can get the brown nosing out of the way, the baseball exhibit here is a baseballer from the late, great, and much lamented Oakland athletics.

It's Dennis Eckersley. I recognize. Eck. Oh, it's Eck. Oh, how about that? I think he played for the Red Sox at one point. That's why I recognized his name is. Am I wrong? He did indeed. All right, good. He's got a nice long hair and a nice mustache. He really looks like a baseball player. And here we have another softball player looks like from the University of Maine number 21. You didn't happen to look up who this person was, did you? I didn't. I was just grabbing for geographical brownie points. Yeah, you get some advantage. And then you go really hard into the brown-nosing by pointing out Exhibit D. Tell me what Exhibit D is. Tell me what you wrote up there. Exhibit D settled law on the court of Judge John

Hodgman is that weird arguments that prefer semantics over cultural contexts do not often succeed. A hot dog is not a sandwich. That is true. A hot dog is not a sandwich. And I like the way that you articulated that. weird arguments that prefer semantics over context do not often succeed. So you're basically saying softball is not baseball. Correct. Is there anything else I need to know about the difference between softball and baseball before I go on to exhibit E? I think that's the bulk of it, right?

The length of games can be different. Baseball has more innings. In softball, it's against the rules to steal until the pitcher has really. released of the ball and baseball you can steal while the pitcher is still holding the ball. And I have a quote from a website that sells coaching materials. So direct quote, the way pitchers throw ellipses creates two completely different sports. And that was describing the difficulty of transitioning from coaching either baseball to softball or back. I'm sorry, whom we were quoting in that, Security Chief Odo from Deep Space Nine?

It comes from a website that sells technology and support to coaches. Say no more. If it comes from a website, it's good enough for me. Yeah, really? It's got to be true. Tell me about Exhibit E. What does this have to do with the softball or baseball? It's Lemmy the Newfoundland dog.

Yes. That was the point. I'll accept it. Brown-nosing has finally succeeded. Oh, my gracious. Um, well, I should not. His freaking face. Lemmy is full of personality.

Oh my God. Lemmy should not be allowed to play with either a baseball or a softball because both balls are made of material that can cause illness and, and, uh, discomfort for dogs. What? But a softball is much safer for Lemmy. Baseballs and softballs are poisonous to dogs? Why, are they full of chocolate? No, when they break the materials of the baseball apart, it can cause obstructions in their bowels.

Okay, good to know. I didn't know that. But a baseball would choke lemmy because it would fit snugly in his big furry maw. Yeah, because a softball. A new fendland dog is a big one, right? He's a big boy, yeah. How many pounds does he weigh?

I think he's about 140 right now. Oh, boy, boy. What a bit, and what is his, Here he is with his big, big beautiful face and lolling tongue clutching this blue stuffed animal. Who's his favorite stuffy there? What's that all about? He likes the blue stuffed animal. He likes to bring it to you and show you that he has it. And he is much less excited about you taking it and throwing it. Which is also a parallel to my attitude about baseball and softball. I don't want to chase a small thing really, really far. I would rather chase a big thing, a shorter distance.

what is the name of this blue stuffed animal i don't know that it has a name it's called the blue toy i sure lemmy has a name for it this second picture that you've shown us where he's on your lap is he looks like one of his face looks like one of those grotesque japanese masks for no theater only also his tongue is hanging out of the side that's true you're absolutely right jesse that's exactly what it looks like. We're both coming out of COVID in that photo, I think. I notice you're wearing your Judge John Hodgman Bat Brothers T-shirt designed by Sam Potts too. So yet another. Brooke, what brown-nosing do you bring to the table? Oh my gosh. Well, I just have to say, uh, I'm a huge Mac PC commercial fan. And I've been following Justin long since Ed.

And since you guys had Tom Kavanaugh and Michael Even Black on the program, um, um, I was elated. So I come from the, the comedy world to brown nose. Yeah, I mean, you look at what Mike brought to the table. He brought a lot of game to the table. He sure did. He really kind of, he didn't tell me about any of this and that he did me do.

He really is using flattery at very high level. Yes, he is. Brooke, I also like that you identified that the Mac versus PC commercials are comedy, whereas this podcast is not. Oh, I also, the podcast. Also the podcast. But you did submit some evidence, Brooke, and that says here, softball and baseball coaches' drawings of their respective fields. Yes.

I went to the high school varsity coaches, softball and baseball, in separate rooms and asked them to draw the fields. And as you can see, both fields look very much the same. Uh-huh. Okay. I mean... That is my evidence. Wow. They did not, I will say, they did not label necessarily distances or put specifics in that Mike shows you on his slides.

Right. Because generically, they're the same. I do see that the softball coach in drawing the softball field has identified one of the differences that Mike listed, which is an all-dirt. Infield, whereas the baseball coach has drawn the delineation between the dirt portion of the infield and the grass portion of the infield. Yes, that is a good eye. That's correct. Yeah. And obviously, I'm noticing the difference between the two slabs. I'm not sure this evidence works in your favor for the reason that just... Yeah, the baseball coach drew a mound and the softball coach did not draw a mound. That's right. But when you look at the shapes of them, when you look at the details that they did include, like the,

strangely, they decided to both include the dugouts, which they thought were a very important part, which for the ultimate baseball championship was an important part of our time there, because that's where we could hang it out and goof around. You're absolutely right. Apples and oranges are mostly round, delicious hand fruit. Yes. Yes. So it works the same way. You might as well just have a Finnish Pesopolo coach draw a picture of a Pesopolo field and claim that that looks the same. That's true. Then you guys are going to. really hate the next piece of evidence, I feel. Yeah. After the coaches of baseball and softball didn't give you what you needed, you turned to students. I did.

I found a Dutchman to draw a picture of a honk ball field. Yes. So I did ask the students to draw. I had a varsity softball player and a baseball player draw the equipment needed. And unfortunately, I think I picked the wrong kid for the baseball because he thought a shirt was one of the most important pieces of equipment for baseball playing, which wasn't listed in the softball. I guess it depends if you're playing shirts versus skins. True, true.

Which in an ultimate baseball championship between students and teachers, let's hope not. But. Like what I'm hearing is like, yes, there is a game called baseball and then there's a game called softball. And then there is a game called Ultimate Baseball Championship, which is played with a standard hardball baseball. But obviously everything, all the other rules seem to be out the window. how do you feel about playing that game?

I don't want to play the game that has the smaller, harder ball that goes further and is thrown overhand. So if there's a pitcher who prefers that, if pitching rules are open-ended, I don't want to bat against that. And I also, in a faculty, if let's get together and have fun game, want to field,

right, a ball that could potentially travel that distance from someone who's an experienced hitter. Right. Right. I once played tennis with my sister-in-law, who was a championship tennis player in high school, and I played no racket sports at all. And she was trying to be very nice. And I spent almost the whole afternoon chasing tennis balls rather than hanging out with my sister-in-law. And I don't want to go to a game where I chase balls afternoon rather than, right? I'm not suggesting that softball is an easier game for people who are good at it. I couldn't hit a fast-pitched softball. right? Right. But the the slope for entry for people who aren't good at the game in slow pitch softball rules is a gentler slope. It's like, I'll go bowling. I'm not good at it. But the ball comes back to me and in between I can go drink a beer and eat a hot dog, right? I know I can't compete with a professional

bowler. They're talented people with skills. But if I go with friends to a bowling alley versus going with friends. I don't, what's in a quick... To a ball field. Lacrosse, right? Like one of those games is going to require a lot more energy and pursuit. Sorry, Mike. No hot dogs in bowling.

I'm sorry. Really? Yeah. Preciles? No, just clam chatter. Sorry, are you talking about candlepin or ten pin? Yes. Oh, well, then you can do whatever you want.

And I don't, yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say, I don't think any, person that would be playing the ultimate baseball championship would have any sort of skills in baseball and or good softball that Mike should be worried about in terms of making him look silly or feel like inadequate. I think that sounds like what he's worried about. No, I'm worried about chasing the ball.

Yeah, but everyone has the same amount of skills. You're only going to be chasing the ball if someone really manages to hit it. If we're all accepting that we're... Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, you please go on. I'd say if we're all accepting that we're not skilled players, then we should. should call it championships low-pitched softball and we all know that's not what it is no there's a there's a game

there's a game that brook wants you to play which is ultimate baseball championship yes and so that i understand this distinct game a little bit better brook i want you to dive in a little bit more on who are the players that you're recruiting aside from mike yeah what are their skill levels probably going to be great um so our first friends in the office. We've got Lloyd and Matt and Bryant and Allie and Angela and all those friends that we eat lunch with would all be invited. Now look, I don't, I don't know a lot about the game of ultimate baseball championship, but you said Lloyd, Matt, Brian, and Allie? Bryant, yeah. Lloyd Matt, I do know that Lloyd, Matt, Brian, and Angela can't hit for

right. Right. I mean, and none of us have played. What faculty are they in the English teaching faculty or the theater department? This would be a common. nation of social studies teachers and English teachers. Come on. Are there any adjustments that you would make to the game that might make Mike feel a little bit more confident in playing in terms of rules or equipment? Right. I don't. Mike would feel comfortable if there were better rules.

Like he was talking to me about, well, how do you know, you know, the stealing base rule is different. And I was like, well, no, we'll just steal the bases. There's no rules about when you can lead off. It's just some people lead off and some people don't. It's a very welcoming, easygoing type of game anyway. So I feel like there's really nothing that needs to be adjusted. Let me ask Mike. Mike, you're hearing about the rules of ultimate baseball championship here,

a separate game we've determined. I've so ruled. It sounds like total chaos. This does not, does it not endear you to the game more? Or does this make you feel more anxious about the game? I would push back on welcoming, right? Okay. to go to just etiquette in its best iteration, right?

It's not a series of rules that people have a certain class used to keep other people out, but a series of familiar expectations so that when you arrive at a table, you know what to do. And as someone who competes in various forms of martial arts, the subtle distinctions in rules make a really big difference, right? I sometimes compete in events where you're allowed to kick to the head but not punch to the head. Right. And that creates a very clear line. And if you don't follow that rule, you've become a jerk, right?

You're not playing by the rules. So I want to know what the rules are. That way there's no misunderstandings or abuses, right? So it's not an ultimate fighting championship. Even ultimate fighting championship has rules. I take it, Mike, that if I were to rule in your favor and say, okay, it's got to be softball, you would want it to be essentially regulation fast pitch or slow pitch. Slow pitch.

Regulation slow pitch softball. You'd want a list of rules. Like if Brooke said to you, okay, well, it'll be ultimate softball championship, which is to say, we're not going to use a hard ball anymore. We'll use a softball. But otherwise, the loosey-goosey nature of the game continues. You would not love that. I wouldn't love that, but I would be more willing to do that if there was an agreement that it was an underhanded slow pitch with a large ball.

More willing or willing? More willing. So you're not committing 100%. No, because I mean, part of what I think Brooke is trying to reconstruct here is this moment that she had when she was 17 and she's not 17 anymore and that world isn't around anymore. and if she wants the people that she's currently friends with to come and play, we're not a bunch of 17-year-old kids who are just going to pile out onto a field with a bunch of balls and bats and do whatever we want. It was usually one ball.

Nice. Brooke got you there, Mike. Usually there's one ball. You ever play ultimate baseball championship with more than one ball? Brooke, that's kind of, you ever do a multi-ball? No, but I would say if it were the ultimate baseball championship, now I'm not the commissioner, but I would say if Mike was playing with us and was like, wait, guys, I want to hit a softball.

If he brought the softball, I'm sure whoever was pitching would be like, fine. You can hit the softball. And then we would all just move up. Like, we would just walk up. Like, oh, he's hitting a softball. We're going to move up. And then, oh, they're hitting a baseball.

We're going to step back. So if that would make Mike feel more comfortable. You can't make that ruling. I can't make that call. I'd have to ask the commissioner. I got to call Jeff. You got to get Michael Chickliss on the phone. That's right.

Yeah. Commissioner Jeff would have to make that ruling. But let me just make sure I understand. You suspect that it. If asked, Commissioner Jeff would say, all right, Mike wants to play with a softball underhand whenever he's up at the base or fielding. Well, I guess fielding is different, right? But like, we'll use the softball when Mike is at bat. That's not enough for you, Mike?

Well, no, because I might have to field against the baseball. It sounds like Mike just wants to play a different game than you do, Brooke. So why is it important that he play with you? Why don't you just let him dangle? I think that if he could let go of some of the rigidity of his rules, be a little more flexible, a little more. or yes, Andy, if you will, I think he would find the magic in building that, you know, on the field in real time, like the fun it comes. You know I'm an only child, right? I do know.

You know, I'm a number one rule follower. Yeah. Yeah. Aren't the rules of slow-pitched softball built specifically to flatten the competition to the extent possible? Aren't the rules of slow-pitched softball? It's played in, you know, quote-unquote, beer leagues across this. nation designed to make it so that a, you know, a small person who last played a ball sport when they were nine can more or less play on the same team as somebody who's been playing every

summer for 30 years. That sounds right, sure. It's just not what we played. If you play this game, are the teens who show up to this game? going to be theater dorks or jocks. Will you have any baseball or softball players show up to this game? Or is it just going to be people who know that gaff tape is expensive and you're not allowed to take it offsite?

Good call on that. But it will all be theater kids and or. I don't think that's true. If we were to actually promote the game. It is. It's very expensive compared to other types of tape. Oh, yes. Oh, gosh. Yes. We do not play around with that. I have a number of softball players in the English classes that I teach who if they knew that we were having a teacher-student after-school game would probably show up because they want to strike me out.

Yeah, but this is not an open to the school kind of thing. This is a cool invitation only, nerds-only friend. I thought it was working. Yeah. Well, it's entry-level. What you're, I'm surprised you haven't encountered this. Mike being in the theater apartment, what you're encountering here is a kind of welcoming that is called nerd welcoming, which is not really welcoming.

I mean, I'm also a nerd. Nerd welcoming is also known as gatekeeping. Yes. I would say it was never like when I played ultimate baseball championship, it was did you hear that there's going to be a game? And then if you played it, then you got the invitation the second time. And it was never like posted on a post-it note on the wall anywhere that was like, the game is happening.

It was a small thing where we just asked teachers like, hey, we're going to play baseball. Or we've actually had some teachers who do like a soccer match that's a little bit more like the publicity is out there for like it to be an all school thing. But this is not an all-school event. This would just be a some friends are getting together. Maybe some of my old friends from high school and maybe some current students who are maybe. maybe theater kids, but they're not afraid of playing ball. I mean, that's where it would be. So I'm not allowed to invite my AP English students who play softball.

We'll see. We've got to talk to the commissioner. There's no rules. No one knows whether you're allowed to invite them. You might invite them and then be a jerk for having invited them. So, but this would be a combo of teacher and students. I think so. Will there be teams and will one team win and will one team lose?

Yes. If we have enough players, then yes. And that's fine. We would have a winner at that point. But there have been years where we just had enough to, you know, have three people in the dugout at a time and then rotate around and just play to see, you know, once everyone hits then. Or when we all get tired or when it's lunchtime, then we go home. Why is it important to you that Brooke change the game that she wants to play? I don't care if Brooke changes the game that she wants to play.

Okay. I just don't want to play the game that she wants to play. And if she said, oh, you should come and play baseball, softball, they're the same. It doesn't matter. It's like, well, they do. They're different. And I want to know what to expect when I arrive. And like the freedom that she's suggesting in the game being necessary to experiencing joy, right?

Like teams who win championships where they abide by a structured set of rules that are consistent, also experience camaraderie and joy. People in theater companies who don't win or lose but put on a show, experience camaraderie and joy. It's not like I don't have those moments. What Brooke wants to do is recreate her junior and senior year of high school and have me live in it. And I don't want to do that. So you're saying that this is more of an art project than it is. I think it's, yeah, it's a combination of art and nostalgia that she's trying to recapture something.

And since you're a Judge John Hodgman official brown-noseder, you know that nostalgia is a toxic impulse. I knew that that word would get your attention, yes, your honor. But more importantly, I think if Brooke wants to play the game with our current set of friends and coworkers, who all have, you know, lives and those sorts of things, that telling that group of people what to expect would increase the likelihood that people would participate and would, therefore increase the fun that we would have. But that's up to, that's up to Brooke and Commissioner Jeff to make the game attractive to potential players.

That is true. You're suggesting that unless she and Commissioner Jeff changed the rules or established rules, not only will you not play, but no one else will play. I have no specific information. That's pure speculation. How far as I'm concerned?

When's the season, Brooke? When would you start playing? As soon as the weather is nice, So probably April. Okay. And how many people have you got committed to the project so far? Well, I'm just with gauging interest. Yeah.

I mean, we would need probably like a dozen people. But nothing has been set in motion as of yet because I'm trying to figure out if Mike will come along for the ride and then I can organize it. So nothing is, we don't have a group yet. So if I rule in your favor, I'm ordering Mike to be a participant in a game that he doesn't want to play so that you can solicit other players. Yes. Is there anything else you'd like me to rule?

I just think that you should rule that there needs to be a game. And no matter what ball is brought to the game, Mike has to play it. That's my main goal. Mike, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? Well, there were two parts. One, Brooke has to publicly acknowledge on her various social media accounts that softball and baseball are different games materially. And two, that if Brooke organizes a game that doesn't abide by slow pitch softball rules, rules or those as reasonably modified given the number of participants that she can't expect

me to play and that she needs to honor and respect my decision not to play a game that I don't want to play. Brooke, baseball and softball are different. Do you agree? I would agree those are different sports, yes. No matter what you get children to draw for you. Yes, I agree that those are different sports. Yeah, I make a preliminary ruling that you have to go on social media and say baseball and

softball or different sports. I mean, I don't need to ask your permission, but I am. Right. I'm letting you know that that's happening, even before I agree to my numbers to think about this. Yes. You could just post those pictures on Pinterest. Yeah, that's right.

Post those picks on pints. Okay. PPP's, you know. That's my preliminary ruling. As you know, my proper Judge John Hodgman Gaville was, or maybe you don't know, Brooke and Mike was confiscated by TSA while we, saving San Francisco because it was a weapon. Apparently.

I did hear that. And so I am working on getting a new gavel made for us by Nick Offerman's wood shop. But while that is in the process, this week I will use a substitute gavel. It's this paperback copy of John D. McDonald's A Deadly Shade of Gold, one of my favorite books in the Travis McGee Mystery Series. I love this book a lot. It is my favorite. And this edition, I got at the Big Chicken Barn in Maine. It is the 1993 edition.

It's a good one. It's a double-sized episode of adventure. Travis McGee, the famous beach bum and problem solver, is recruited by an old friend to investigate the death of her husband and the recovery of some stolen Aztec artifacts. I am going to preliminarily rule that you have to post your picks on pints. And other social media is regarding baseball and softball being different. here that goes. That's so ordered. And next now I'm going to go into my chambers and decide who I should throw the book at. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom to consider his verdict.

Mike, how are you feeling about your chances right now? Well, I got the first victory with Brooke having to declare that baseball and softball are different sports. So I feel good about that. I don't think it's in the history of the court for the judge to rule that people. do things that they don't like to do. But I think in this case, because there are some other elements of community and shared spaces that there might be a compromised position that he's considering, but I feel pretty good. Brooke, how do you feel? Well, I feel like Mike just has such a rooted history of fandom in the Judge John Hodgman's show that I am so new to that he definitely has the upper hand here. So I am pretty concerned, given that he shared pictures of a dog we both,

you know, love and know in his slide deck. I mean, to be fair, you're very familiar with the judge's comedy career, specifically some commercials he was in 15 years ago. Right. Yeah, that is, that is true. We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a minute. Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case, and we are reminding everyone that we are going to be at the Bell House in Brooklyn,

New York City in just days. as you listen to this, John and I are probably in John's office, furiously scribbling material for our all-new show. Judge John Hodgman, Nightcourt. That's right. It's Judge John Hodgman and bailiff Jesse Thorne in Nightcourt, a brand new kind of show that we are devising for you right now, scribbling jokes on index cards and pasting them up on a cork board. It's going to be wild. It's going to be ramshackle. There's going to be a lot of audience participation.

And each show is going to be a little bit different. We've got a big Friday night show and a big Saturday night show. And you can get tickets for one, the other, or both of them at maximum fun. org slash events right now. My plan for these shows, John? Extravaganza. Yeah, exactly. Not just a regular vaganza, an extra vaganza of comedy and delight and even some new songs.

I promise you that. And guess what? If you are in the northeast, you can join us on a boat. That's right. A 100-year-old wooden sailing schooner called the Grace Bailey. Jesse Thorne and I will be dispensing maritime law at sea for four big nights in the Pinabscot Bay and the beautiful main coast. Sailing around Captain Sam, Sycamma, is going to sail us around wherever the wind may take us. I'll do some readings from vacation land. Jesse and I will dispense some advice and some justice. We'll be sitting down in the galley with you, eating some delicious food made right on board. And we'll be enjoying the beautiful June weather in Maine as we sail by various islands named things like Bear Island, Sheep Island, Hog Island, and maybe even Crotch Island. The more you tell me, the better this sounds, because my only sort of precedent in my mind for what this might be like was the movie. cabin boy. So on the one hand, almost anything sounds better than everyone threatening me with

violence until I dance, like Andy Richter was forced to do in that film. That's right. On the other hand, I will be disappointed if on my way to the ship, David Letterman does not ask me if I'd like to buy a monkey. Now, look, I don't know if this is possible. Jesse, I don't know if this is possible. But what's stopping us from trying and getting a mini projector and showing one night on the ship showing cabin boy

projected against one of the sails? Why can't we do that? This boat trip is not weird enough. Bit.Dotley slash maritime justice is where you get your tickets. Let's get back to the show. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

So here's a quote for you. Quote, I've dislocated one finger and I've popped one thumb out, but we popped it back in and just taped it up and kept playing. That was going to be my original cultural reference, which no one would have gotten, because it came from a local television news piece on mush ball, aka Klinger, aka Cabbage Ball, aka 16 inch softball in Chicago. specifically that was Joni McElegate who was inducted into the 16-inch softball Hall of Fame in 2022. When she gave this interview, she was well over 40 years old. And many of the other people interviewed in this segment,

whether young or old, talked about how badly their fingers had been broken in this game of recreational mush paw. rub some dirt on it. Yeah. And I mention it because even in a game of softball, there are injuries that are possible. Indeed, I think in Chicago, that's part of the fun of it.

And I think that probably cabbage ball or mush ball, clincher, whatever it is, is probably closest to ultimate baseball championship as you can get or closer than to regular, or even slow-pitch softball, because it's just a game that you pick up among colleagues and friends traditionally. You know, it's semi-organized, you play with whatever you have, you don't need gloves, you barely need equipment.

And yet, even still, it can be a little bit dangerous. So I'm going to say before I get into my ruling here, that, you know, I don't know when you went to high school, but now is a different time. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to stomp on your fun overall. But I would talk carefully with Commissioner Jeff about the wisdom of involving students in your faculty game. I think there's possibility for some unfun outcomes there that you would not want to deal with. It's a different time. Sure.

Sorry. Sorry to be a bummer. but I do think it's something that you should consider as you're working through the Nebraska winter and looking forward to your season of Ultimate Baseball Championship. I want Ultimate Baseball Championship that said. I want it to happen. It's a game I believe in. It sounds like a lot of fun.

It sounds like a real mess, frankly. But it sounds like a lot of fun for you, but not for Mike. Now, look, Mike is an expert brown-noser. There's no question about it. You know, in many ways, you came to this game at a disadvantage. You brought a knife to a gunfight, whereas Mike brought a picture of a dog to Judge John Hodgman. And that's the Chicago way. You know what I'm saying?

Like, he knew the game that he was playing. He knew the rules of the game. And it's not just because he's a flatterer that I'm going to end up finding in his favor. Because there is a benefit to knowing the rules of the game. Now, Mike has been very good at articulating the benefit of knowing the rules of the game, even if the game is play stage combat. The rules keep people safe. The rules establish a sense of expectation on either side.

the rules give you the pleasure of bending the rules. You know, when there are no rules, there is no, none of that frisson, that transgressive thrill of coming up close against the rules or arguments later over whether someone had their foot in the wrong place or whatever else. He also comes from a martial arts tradition, which is one that is based a lot as far as I know. I mean, I don't have any samurai swords above my drum kit, but, you know, the etiquette of how how combatants, how opponents, how players meet in martial arts tournaments is really important. It not only keeps people safe, but it expresses respect for one another.

And then Mike also, I think that's all something to take into account. And I understand why Mike loves the rules. I don't mind you playing a game where the rules are much fuzzier. But what I'm saying is that I appreciate that for Mike, that would not be fun layered on top of the memory of the trauma of that terrible, terrible kid Chris hitting his elbow and Mike not getting not being allowed to be in him with his bat because Mike learned in that one traumatic moment that hard balls, I'll call them, can hurt, right?

So can softballs, obviously. That's why the wonderful women and humans in their own right of the softball team at the University of Maine wear headgear, right? But also that, you know, like when the, when the rules are broken inadvertently, as I trust in this case, not only because it called pain, because you're not supposed to make, you're not supposed to throw a ball at someone's elbow, but then the rules also exist to protect Mike from doing something that would be ultimately very bad for Chris and for him, which is hitting Chris on the head with a baseball bat. That would be bad. I don't think that a friend would ask a friend to relive his trauma.

And I don't think that a friend, but you are friends. I know why you want your friend to play the game with you. It would be fun. I get it. But it would not be Mike's kind of fun. And one of the pieces of settled law that unfortunately you're not familiar with Brooke, and I'm surprised that Mike didn't trot it out in his PowerPoint of Hodgman flattery, which is that if it's not fun for everyone, it's no fun at all.

And so I think you need to go and play your game. and look around for someone else to play. That said, Mike, you are Brooks friend, and you're not getting out of this completely scot-free. I order you, when ultimate baseball championship happens, I order you to show up in the audience for a couple of games and support your friend and watch. Maybe a day might come when you become more comfortable

playing this significantly unique sport that is not baseball and is not softball, either fast-based. slow pitch or mush ball, its own Nebraska style of wild sportsmanship and sportspership called ultimate baseball championship. It does not roll off the tongue. Let me tell you, Brooke, I bet to really work hard to remember the name of your made-up sport. It's appreciated. But I'm all for it.

And I think you and Commissioner Jeff should put together some ground rules that make sure everyone's safe, especially if you're involving students. You might need some waivers. Of course. You know what I mean? Of course. Some waivers might need to be signed. I don't know what you want to do.

But Mike, I want you to show up for a couple of games and pay attention to how you feel watching the game. You know, maybe you'll feel better about it if you watch it. Or maybe your heart will pound and you will not like it at all, even to watch it, in which case you don't have to. You don't have to do anything that makes yourself uncomfortable. but I do urge you if you're still feeling genuine and legitimate trauma from being beaned by Chris that time on your elbow to find some way to work through it. Perhaps this would be therapeutic for you or perhaps maybe therapy. But in the meantime, I'm throwing the book at Mike, which means that he wins the case and he gets a copy of one of my favorite books, A Deadly Shade of Gold by John D. McDonough. Donald featuring Travis McGee. I'll send this in the mail to you. And Brooke, here's my offer to you,

Senator. Nothing. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. I'm sorry, I messed up your book, Mike. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Mike, how do you feel right now? I think it's fair, and I'd be more than happy to show up and be adjacent to the game when it happens and see where it goes. How are you feeling, Brooke? Horrible. I am very competitive. No, I understand the ruling. I think Mike came very prepared. And I should have, you know, there are more pieces of evidence I could have thought through better. But I'm just happy Mike will hopefully consider showing up to see us in our fun glory. And I'm glad to still try to make the game happen. Well, Mike and Brooke, thank you so much for joining us on the

Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you for having us. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. Our thanks to banjo solo on Reddit for naming this week's episode, you can name episodes and talk about the show on Reddit at R slash maximum fun. We are also on Instagram with all of our evidence and photos at Instagram.com slash judge John Hodgman. John, I was going to bed. Good. I mean, look, you got to get your beauty sleep. And my wife was going to bed with me. We were about to turn out the lights. And I said, hold on, hold on, hold on. I got to open up this Google Doc so I can show you these pictures of this

dog. And you know what? It was worth it. We're also, we're also, we're also, we're also on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod. So follow and subscribe there. Hey, I'm on all these video things these days too. Jesse Thorne's very famous on Instagram and I'm also on TikTok. Just search for Jesse Thorne. And I'm also on YouTube. So subscribe to Jesse Thorne there.

Absolutely. I believe I'm at Young American, despite not being young anymore. but my radio show used to be called The Sound of Young America. There's also some 15-year-old videos of like me interviewing Paul F. Tompkins, if you want to look at that. I think I still, I mean, I know that I still have my personal YouTube channel, which is areas of my expertise. There you go.

But the one that I'm hoping that you will all go to and subscribe to right now, if you haven't already, is Judge John Hodgman Pod, all capital letters because we feel that strongly about it. Our YouTube comment of the week, this week comes from checking my notes, Fart Party USA. Thank you, user Fart Party USA. John, I always say

American fart parties first. I appreciate your consistent nativist position on this. All fart parties should be American. In any case, Fart Party USA had a comment on our recent episode

from San Francisco SketchFist. everyone remembers the guillotine from our show in San Francisco, but no one remembers me tossing pumpkin pie into a litigant's mouth, what we called trial by tepaniaki. And Fart Party USA commented, Trial by Teppaniaki is my new favorite form of justice. And you know what Fart Party? I may agree with you.

If you haven't seen our episode, Let Them Eat Case, it is on there on the YouTube. It's a particularly spectacular one shot live in San Francisco by Daniel Spear. And it was a delight and there's a lot of eyes only content there. And please, when you go over to check it up, again, I cannot stress more strongly enough. We are nearing 10,000 subscribers. And when we reach 10,000 subscribers, something good's going to happen, I have a feeling.

Something terrific will happen for the show. I mean, truly, subscribing in this case does not mean putting any money down. Just be clear. It just means following the channel and the more subscribers we have, the more people. the more people see the channel in their feeds, and that helps people discover the podcast. YouTube is where people discover podcasts now, and that's why we talk about it all the time.

It's also fun to bring you these video episodes. I kept going to say video essays, but you're the one bringing the video essays, Jesse. Yeah, that's true. I got video essays on my joint. Yeah, and we're putting them up on the YouTube, too. So why don't you go on over there, like, share, and subscribe. If you're a pickup athlete tool, hit us up in the comments.

What are you making up rules to? Good point. On the fly. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Philip Zach and Isaac Nab at the Grid's studio in Lincoln, Nebraska. Megan Rosati runs our social media, the podcast edited by A.J. McKeon. Our video editor is Daniel Spear. Our producer, Jennifer Marmer.

Okay, Swift Justice, John. Rogers Razor on the Maximum Fun subreddit has asked. When my daughter was a baby, I used to sing the mountain goat song Grendel's mother to her. It was the only song my sleep-addled brain could remember. My wife says it was a messed up song to sing to a baby because of all the revenge murder. I think it was fine. Who's right? I'll tell you this.

Here's a little story. When our daughter, who's the whole human being in our own right, our oldest child was born, she was handed to me in an empty hospital room while my wife was whisked away for some postpartum attention and all of a sudden I'm sitting there with this tiny life in my hand alone completely unqualified as all new parents are and I didn't know what to do except sing to her and Jesse Thorne do you know what I sang to her

the best ever death metal band out of Denton. That would have been great. That would have been great. What did you think of her? Something in a Tom Wait's voice. The first thing that came to my sleep battle brain was a Tom Wait song. I did not do the Tom Wade's voice. It's a beautiful Tom Wade's song.

And guess what? Because it's between me and our daughter, I'm not going to tell you unless you can guess. I put it to the listeners. And the viewers, if any of you guess in the YouTube comments for this episode, which Tom Waits song I sang to my daughter, I will send you a copy of Deadly Shade of Gold by John D. McDonald. Not just, not, Mike, Mike isn't the only one to get it. I know where I can get more.

It's going to do a copy. If you can guess it, it's a Tom Waits song. What would you sing to an infant if you were a new father? And I guess what this means for Rogers Razor and Swift Justices. thing this was between you and your baby. Each parent has a special independent relationship with their with the child in a two-parent household. And you, you have this mountain goat song with your daughter, which she doesn't remember by the way. And she was not traumatized by it. But I'm just saying, don't let Razor, Rogers Razor, don't let your partner get you down on this one.

You, like all parents, you did the best you could. And it's a beautiful song. And we love John Darniel too. All right, let's hear some more song disputes. What's the worst song to sing to a baby? I mean, look, there are no wrong songs is what I just ruled. But, like, there are probably some wrong ones to sing. Nations all over Europe are still picking their entries for this year's Eurovision contest. Do you think that Italy picked the wrong song? I don't even know what this one's about.

Jennifer Marmon wrote this. We got to have Eurovision disputes. I know. We got to have Eurovision disputes. I know that there's, I know there's Max Funsters out there listening to the Eurovans. Yeah. Placing burdensomely large wagers on Eurovision outcomes. Yeah.

Exchanging DMs with Dave Holmes, our friend Dave Holmes about Eurovision. I know there's Eurovision disputes out there. I want to hear them. Maximumfund.org slash JJH. Yeah, that's right. And we want to hear all of your disputes, not just the ones about Eurovision songs. If you've got any kind of dispute, big, small, as Jesse Thorne says, we hear. Here's them all. Go to maximum fund.org slash jjah or you can write to me directly at Hodgman at maximum fun.org if that's easier for you.

And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network of artists-owned shows. Supported directly by you.