Judge John Hodgman - The Abuse of Flower Power

Episode Date: November 2, 2011

Not in MY backyard! Julienne and Emily are neighbors and romantically involved. Julienne has created a garden space  but wants to add a particular flower that Emily detests. Emily has threatened to never cross the picket fence again if they are brought in. Who'll win the war of the roses?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the abuse of flower power. Emily and Julian are neighbors who are also romantically involved. Julian, with Emily's encouragement, decorated her live-work garage space with a small garden. Both agree that this made it a brighter, more pleasant place to live and work. Julian would like to add a Mexican daisy to her garden. But Emily hates the flower's smell and has declared that she will stop visiting her sweetheart should she cultivate such a horrible plant. Should Julian grow an alternative flower or should she follow her nose and crush her significant other's heart? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Give me odorous at sunrise a garden of beautiful flowers where I can walk undisturbed. Walt Whitman. Hello, Jesse. Hello, Judge Hodgman. Why don't you swear these young women in? Julian, Emily, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever? Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that the only thing he has ever cultivated is a handsome mustache? Yes. Yes. Very well, Judge Hodgman. All right, let us cultivate our gardens. Julianne, you are bringing the complaint today?

I am. All right. What is your relationship to one another? We are a lesbian couple. Okay, so you're a couple and you live together? We are. Well, Emily is crashing with me as we're building her a room in her space.

In your initial complaint that you sent in, you talked a lot about spaces. I live in an apartment, but you live in spaces. Explain to me why you live in spaces. It's basically a garage storage type space, and it's about a thousand square feet. Okay. And it's nothing but a big square empty space. And the reason I need to live in this kind of space is because I'm an artist and I need a lot of room to you know to let me be messy and make work.

Right that's the difference of course between an artist and a normal person is that a normal person does work. Right so basically we minimize the kitchen. There's no living room. There's basically a room that I call an office because technically we're not supposed to live here. Right. Oh, okay. So is this Julianne speaking now? Yes.

Okay, got it. And what kind of artist are you? I'm a painter. And what materials? I used to work a lot with oil paint, but as of now, I'm working a lot with gouache and paper cutouts on canvas. And large scale pieces are we talking about? Not anymore. I used to, the largest I've painted was about 16 feet wide, but storage was a huge problem. So I cut it down to about four feet by three feet. Emily, are you also an artist?

I am, yes. And so what kind of art do you do? I make some mixed media work and some installation work as well. Okay. And so I'm currently building a live workspace out of one of these garage units, which is about four doors down from Julian's. So I don't actually have a space to live in quite yet. It's just a garage and I'm currently building that. So I'm crashing with Julian. Okay. So you're two women artists who are currently illegally living together in a garage. Do I understand that correctly? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. It's fairly common here in LA, actually. There's quite a few people doing it. If you would just tell me the address of where you are, I will reap a substantial reward. If I bring LA's finest down upon your little artistic shantytown. But I'm not going to do that because I support the arts. I even know what Gawash is. I mean, like that. So you're going to colonize your own garage illegally a

couple of doors down. Yeah, I helped Julian build the room, her quote unquote office where she crashes in not too long ago, about in May. And now she's helping me build my room in my space because I just moved in a couple months ago. Okay, so you are currently crashing in Julian's garage. Yes, and then I'll be moving four garage doors away. And you're going to move down four garages away. Yes. And what are you building into your garage, just out of curiosity? I'm lofting my bed.

So I'll be sleeping above my closet slash office. Great. Yeah. And you're both adults? Yes. Okay, got it. Well, it's hard to tell. You're living in a garage.

I'm not sure. Hard to tell. You're like the Fonz, basically. Yes. Something like that. All right. Marvelous. So basically, my ruling is going to determine which one of you is legally evicted first.

But the nature of the dispute is one over horticulture. Is that correct? Let me hear it. Julianne, you start. You brought the case. Right. I, you know, began to have a garden because I was taking care of Emily's succulents for a while, while she was just moving in and before she had water and power.

What are succulents i mean are you talking about delicious hors d'oeuvres or what no they're just like um plants that doesn't require much care okay and they can much pretty much just root by drops of leaves and you don't really have to do anything and they'll just grow and prosper by themselves. They're plants? They're desert plants. They're desert plants? Mm-hmm. Okay.

And you keep them around just for beauty of nature? Right. Are they potted plants, I take it? Or do you have a few acres of agrarian land behind your garages? No, I wish, but no. They're all potted. So you were taking care of her succulents? Yes, I was taking care of her succulents yes i was taking care of

her succulents and then i've never um i've never had any plants before and and i realized that it's really nice to have some greens in like this you know industrial concrete building yeah yeah when you're living in an unfinished garage you'd like to have some nasturtiums around i get it so i talked to you know a few of my neighbors and then he suggested to use a five gallon buckets because it'll be wide enough and it'll be deep enough for plants to grow roots and it'll be enough to grow some tomatoes, squash, mint, and basil. So I did. And then in the meantime, like a few other friends donated a variety of other succulents and to make my garden more colorful. So now you're growing food in the five gallon bucket garden behind your garage. Is that right?

In front of my garage. In front of your garage. Okay. And shortly after I had the garden started, another neighbor came over. So the guy at the muffler shop next door taught you how to grow squash and mint in buckets? Yeah. The guy at the body shop did this or who? I think it was another, it was a hoarder. He actually just moved out, but he had a house somewhere else. What do you mean it was a hoarder who just moved out?

What are you talking about? What is going on? Are you living in a hobo jungle? John, you live in Brooklyn, so you don't understand the extent to which my city, Los Angeles, resembles a post-apocalyptic wasteland. I feel like I have a lot to learn. I was looking around the space around mid-April, and that's about when I moved in. And during the time, another neighbor had told me that the guy is you know getting kicked out some guy was getting kicked out of his garage yeah the hoarder was getting kicked out of his

what was he hoarding in there um squash everything squash and mint plants the world got gun shells and random bookshelves and old lambs and random things. Was he also living in there, or was this just his storage area? No, he's not living there. He has three storage areas. So this is like the TV show Hoarders. You guys don't know this because you probably don't have electricity or running water, but there are things called televisions, and they show shows called

hoarders and storage wars. And this and your neighborhood is where those two they're the hobo jungle where those two shows meet. Yeah, exactly. So you're living in storage containers and your build and you're creating foodstuffs for yourself out of five gallon plastic buckets, including squash and mint for squash mint soup, I suppose. And you're storing this outside your garage, is that right? Yeah. All right. And how often do people urinate on these things?

Stan probably does. Actually, my neighbors love my garden. They all love to have little greens, and they would come over and check them out. Okay. And why are you not being arrested? You have a garden outside of your non-residential garage space. Doesn't anyone take notice or is this purely a lawless land? I'm kind of nervous about that. My landlord has stopped by a few times and I was wondering if she's going to say something, but she hasn't. So I figured maybe she's okay with it you're going to pay her off with artisanal urban mint sprigs

all right but emily is the squash the problem no is the mint the problem no are your succulents the problem no my succulents have been returned back to me now. This is all sounds extremely euphemistic. What is the problem? The problem is the Mexican daisy plant that she wants to plant. The Mexican daisy plant. Are you talking about erigeron cavinscianus, also known as perfusion or fleabane flower? Yes. I see. Go on, tell me more about this. Well, so Julian had mentioned that she really likes the succulents and wants more plants that aren't just vegetables. And she's always really liked the Mexican daisies that our boss has at her house. Okay, so we should probably mention we also work together. In a field outside of painting and installation art?

No, actually we work for a painter. Oh, okay. We work out of our boss's house where she has a lot of Mexican daisies planted. She planted them years and years ago and they've grown to be this enormous bush hedge type thing. For those of you listening at home who might not know, Mexican daisies or fleabane is a carpeting rhizomatous

woody-based perennial with lax branching stems and abundant yellow-centered white flowers in summer. Blossoms fade to pink and purple. Foliage is hairy and grayish green. Excellent in five-gallon drums. Excellent anywhere. They are basically a weed. They self-seed.

And so they get just huge. And our boss has this hedge. And Julian tried to take a bit of it from the house and root it and she failed at that and she wants to do it again and I've been begging her not to do it because I hate the smell of this plant. It is spicy, it has sort of a spicy smell to it and this like bitter smell and I say bitter because it's the kind of smell that when you smell it, you also taste it at the same time. You know what I mean? Also because if you only said spicy, that would be racist.

Because of their Mexican date? Well, it's hard to explain. Have you guys ever smelled it, Judge Hodgman? Do you know what it smells like? No, but from now on, would you address me as your succulents? Anyway. I've never smelled it. This whole thing speaks to areas where I've never

gone. Specifically, industrial areas colonized by artists and urban farmers. I've never gone to these places. So I have not smelled these flowers. It's got this sort of bitter smell. The only thing that I really have to compare it to would be, like, dandelions.

Oh, oh, God. Oh, oh, my God, so disgusting. Oh, they're the worst. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, I see the case closed. Just wait. Just wait.

Just wait. You know when you're a little kid and you pick the dandelions and then you get the juice on your hands and you go like a couple hours later to eat your peanut butter and jelly sandwich perhaps? Wait, wait, wait. You know what I look like, right? Yes. But we don't have to see it.

Can you picture me as a child picking dandelions? Okay. Okay. Well, for anybody else, this is the only comparison that I have. When you pick the dandelions and you get the juice on your hands and then you go to eat your peanut butter and jelly sandwich later on, you get the juice on your sandwich, you get it in your mouth and it's immediately like dries up your tongue, it's bitter and it just ruins your taste buds and then simultaneously ruins your peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

That is how I experienced Mexican daisy. The word picture you're painting there of your Minnesotan upbringing, going out and picking dandelions and getting the juice on your hands and then having that peanut butter sandwich. That was like a Williams, Carlos Williams poem there for a second. And then it took this hard left turn into disgusting. It dries out your tongue. It's so gross.

Are you either a super smeller or do you have aphasia why are you talking about tasting these smells you okay have you never experienced something when you smell your food you know what it's going to taste like i smoked cigarettes for 10 years i don't smell anything that doesn't make this fair then but so far these things have not been planted is Is that correct? They were attempted to be planted. And then you destroyed them with urine or something. I suspected that she has

peed in it. Really? That's why the rooting failed. Really? That shit just got real. I was joking, but is that a real suspicion of yours, Julian, that Emily peed on your flowers to kill them? She said that many times.

I'm going to pee in it while you're not looking, and I'm going to kill it. All right, stand by. Stand by. Wait a minute. This is a serious accusation. Emily? I joked about it. Emily?

Emily? Did you say to Julian, I'm going to pee in your flowers and kill them? I don't know if I said pee, but I think I said I'll pour coffee in there. Well, that's a euphemism for peeing. Everyone knows that. That's a famous Minnesotan euphemism for urinating. But I didn't. You threatened to, but you did not.

I didn't, and it failed on its own. And then when it failed, she thought about it again, and I begged her not to. And then she submitted the case to the John Hodgman podcast. And I told her, okay, let's agree that you won't plant it until we get a verdict from Judge Hodgman. And she agreed to that. So, you know, and I've come up with, I want to let the record show, I have come up with compromises to this plant. I have made many suggestions in hopes of finding something that we can both enjoy. But Julian just won't meet me halfway.

And so she's kind of being selfish. She just really won't meet me halfway. And I'm just hoping that you can decide it for us. What suggestions did you make? For one, I suggested jasmine because it also grows like crazy. It's also kind of a climber. Well, it is a climber. And. It's also kind of a climber. Well, it is a climber and the Mexican disease is kind of a climber. And it has little flowers because Julian doesn't like the big sissy flowers. She likes little inconspicuous ones that you don't

really see. She likes when something comes from the smell of the plant itself and not the flower. So I suggested jasmine because I enjoy the smell of it. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is a true criterion here. It's got to, the smell's got to come from the stem and leaves, not the flowers. Okay. The reason I like the fact that the flower smell comes from the leaves is because I realize a lot of the plants I have, they die in the winter.

And then if I were to have something that relies on the flower to smell good, then it's only seasonal. So you're really into this for the odor. You want it to smell. Yeah, I really do love the smell. Because it smells from the leaves and it smells year round. This is great for someone who loves the plant, but it's horrible for someone who doesn't like the plant because you never get a break from it. If it was something that was seasonal, I might not have as much of a problem with it, but I have to smell it at work and at home. It's a little too much. You're making all sorts of choices with your life about what you're going to smell when you live in a garage. It's true. Well, I'm sorry. Is your neighbor at the body shop starting up his generator for his hoarding engine? I've done some research on jasmine, which smells really, really good as well.

engine. I've done some research on jasmine, which smells really, really good as well. But the thing is, it won't grow any more than 12 inches per year. And now I can see why that would rule things out. And who knows how long it's going to take, you know, for its first blossom. Who knows how long how long the police are going to allow you to live there? Right. Boy, oh boy, you guys know a lot about plants. Maybe it's not that you're gardeners.

Maybe it's just that you're artists and you've got a lot of time on your hands. Boy, oh boy, it only grows 12 inches per year. Never would have occurred to me. Just put it in a pot, look at it, smell it, eat it, whatever. So the jasmine is no good because it only grows 12 inches per year. Why are you so fixated on the Mexican daisy when you know it bothers Emily so much? I mean, it's, it's, she is the only person that I know of who doesn't like that smell. Actually, everybody else that I know of.

Have you walked up and down your block knocking on garage doors, asking your, asking your local muffler men and hoarders what they want to do? And it's a, and it's a powerful smell. It is pretty powerful, but you, you'll have to get close enough to it no you don't you can be half a block away and smell it as far as i'm concerned maybe your smeller is bad that's only when the wind is strong and when the wind is strong i am gonna have to hide in my space i will have order do you want me to pound some heads boss no it's okay i know you guys probably settle things in the garage district by fighting in the alleys. But here in Park Slope, Brooklyn, we take turns speaking.

Julian, two of your neighbors say they don't like the smell of this thing. And there are lots of other flowers and flowering plants and non-flowering plants that you could put in that would preserve what I presume is an important relationship in your life. Why not just let this go? Well, I guess if I know of another plant that smells equally good and, you know, doesn't rely on flower, I would consider it. But I really do like that smell. And I don't know, I hope, I was i was you know hoping that she would you know like the things that i like as well oh now we get down to it don't we i don't mean to be get personal but how long have you two been together a little over a year okay so it's still pretty early on in the

relationship is this the first major uh difference of opinion that you've had about the smell of something or in your taste in general She hates all seafood except white fish. No. And she hates cilantro. And she would tell people she's allergic to it so she doesn't have to eat it. Normally I'd be yelling, I'd be shouting order and order, but I'd like to see where this is going so you can just keep going on. What else, what other problems does Emily have? Okay, one time, there's one time I was making dinner for the two of us. You were on the hot plate that you have in that garage? I was frying some eggs in a hubcap. So I was making dinner one night for the two of us and a neighbor, and he's Vietnamese.

Just a Mexican daisy cilantro stew that you love. I was craving fish. The problems in your relationship seem to stem from taste. Not just how you decorate a place, but physical taste, how things taste and how things smell. Well, and Julian doesn't like cheese, but do I put cheese in her food just in hopes that she'll like it just because I like it? No. But I don't make a face about it. Wait a minute. You don't like cheese? I am trying to understand cheese.

I like pizza. I like quesadilla. I'm trying different cheese from time to time just to see if the feeling would change. So I'm actually open about, you know. You're open to change. You're trying to find a middle ground. But if something smells too cheesy, you get grossed out. Would I put like a big block of stinky cheese on the table while you're eating your dinner?

No. And it's the same thing. I don't want to smell the Mexican daisies while I'm eating my dinner. It's going to be like the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Ruined. Wait a minute. You're moving out, which is beginning to seem like a pretty good idea. Well, I'm moving four garage doors down.

And I would like to be able to come over and eat dinner with my girlfriend. But maybe she's just, I mean, she'll have to come down to my space all the time if she wants to have dinner with me. Yeah, but you're going to have all that cheese lying around. No, I'm saying I don't do that because I believe in a relationship you're supposed to compromise and you're supposed to understand the other person's feelings and it's about both people getting what they want and this is not something that I want. I don't want Mexican daisies in my space 24 seven. But it's not your space, is it? It's out on the

street. You can smell it from half a block away. And I have to smell it. But you know what, here, let me tell you something right now. When my wife and I moved into our apartment building, right? We, we loved our apartment and we still do. It turns out that our bedroom is right next to the trash compactor room. For years, anytime it got over 85 or 90 degrees here in New York City, our bedroom smelled like trash. And this is a communal living space. We actually had a right to say we can't have our bedrooms smelling like trash.

And various efforts were made to try to clean up the garbage room so that it smelled better and would go away for a while, but then it would come back. And sometimes you just have to deal with that stuff. All right. I have enough to make my decision.

I will go to chambers. I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Julian, Emily, I have been with my wife now for more than 12 years, and we've been married for several of those. I want to read you this William Carlos Williams poem, which will be accompanied by the drums. And I want you to take a moment to consider its message. I think that it's a little bit about the way that there are some things that we keep to ourselves and some things that we share with our partners. It's called Don's Roos.

If when my wife is sleeping and the baby and Kathleen are sleeping and the sun is a flame white disc and silken mists above shining trees if i and my north room dance naked grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt around my head and singing softly to myself i am lonely lonely i was born to be lonely i am best so if i admire my arms my face my shoulders flanks buttocks against the yellow drawn shades, who shall say I am not the happy genius of my household? It doesn't sound like either of you are going to be the happy genius of this household. Maybe you need to get some rooms in these spaces.

We're building them. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Thank you very much. Hey, Jesse, were you just reading some poetry? Absolutely. That's groovy, man. I was just playing my drums. Because I think those drums make an argument

that neither of you could possibly make, which is a distinct audible reminder that you guys live in storage spaces in an industrial area. The fact that you are prettifying it with flowers and squash and mint is hilarious on its own. And doubly so in a charming way, how seriously you both take it. Look, I'm rooting for you two homesteaders into transforming these disgusting spaces into homes. Here's the thing, Emily, I think first of all, you should go to a doctor

and take whatever tests are available to see if you are perhaps a supertaster. There are some people who are supertasters. Yeah, that's cool. It's like a beat poem that I'm laying down for you. There's some dudes who are supertasters. And they have more taste buds in certain areas of their tongue. And different odor receptors in their nose.

And as such, certain smells and tastes, and obviously those two are very closely combined, drive them up a tree. Sometimes they can't even stand the smell of the tree that they have been driven up. So it's a real thing. So it's a real thing. And given the real palpable anger you have at the prospect of smelling pretty flowers, makes me wonder whether or not you might not be, I'm not going to say afflicted, but differently smelled in this way or differently smelling in this way. Because I think that it's something that would affect my decision dramatically if we were to go back to this again in the future. And I have a feeling you guys are going to revisit this a lot. That I would also say, Emily, that there is a concern with, with all respect to what I suspect is your, your medical condition

and, and almost pathological hatred of the smell of pretty flowers. I do need to remind you that you live in an industrial area. Okay. And as such, you guys are squat setting in a world where people are not supposed to be living. And as such, you're going to deal with a lot of things that you don't want to see, hear, taste, or smell all of the time. And for you to turn to the laws of New Zealand, where homeowners associations have banned the growing of this particular weed called fleabane or Mexican daisy

because of its unacceptable odor and its predatory weeding nature, to me suggests like maybe you want to go live in the suburbs where you can tell your neighbors what to do. But you're an artist. You're living in a garage. And right now you're living with your girlfriend, your lover, your paramour. But soon you're going to be going into your own space and she's got to have a right to plant whatever dumb plant she wants to plant. So in that sense, I'm much more sympathetic to Julian than to you. But Julian, listen to me. You can't force your girlfriend to like all the smells that you like. You can't force your life partner to like all the things that you like, to enjoy all the things that you enjoy, to smell all the things that you smell. Rimshot, bada-doom.

Okay? This is, if you are, I think that it is incredibly rude for Emily to microwave leftovers and go out on the street and eat food out of a takeaway container while you're making a delicious dinner. out of a takeaway container while you're making a delicious dinner. But if she doesn't like that dinner, then, you know, you've got to be respectful that this other person is indeed another person who does not like the things that you like. So here's what I'm saying. You have no right to plant anything. You don't even have a right to be living where you're living. That said, you have a certain squatter's rights, I guess,

to put five gallon buckets outside of your garage door and grow stuff in it. And if you want to grow this plant, that's fine. But the consequences are going to be that your life partner is really mad at you, very upset by the smell, and very confused by why you would do something that you know that she doesn't like and has asked you not to do. This is a very provocative thing to do in a committed relationship, and I think you should think seriously before you do it. I am going to suggest a compromise in this case. Because I am concerned that this invasive species of fleabane might in fact take over the entire neighborhood like terrible human

consuming triffids. I will say this. I think the drum set is going to back me up. Get some of the Mexican daisies, put them in a small pot in your house. See if over time Emily doesn't become accustomed

or acclimatized to them. And certainly see if over time Emily doesn't become accustomed or acclimatized to them. And certainly see if you really love this smell so much that you have to have it in your life all the time and infect the whole neighborhood with it. If after a period of three months, Emily has not changed her mind and or has gone to a doctor to determine whether or not she is a super taster. And she still says, I really don't like that. I'd like you to get rid of it. I order you to comply. It is the obligation that you have to someone that you are trying to share your life with, that you do not force things on them

when they specifically have asked you not to do it. I would prefer to see the flower of your love bloom more than this Mexican daisy weed grow. And thus, this is the sound of a gavel. Your succulence rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom. Emily, do you think that this compromise will be a harbinger of a bright future for this relationship, or do you think that your hyper-powerful sense of smell and Julian's botanical interests mean that this whole thing is doomed from the start?

I don't know. We'll have to take it one day at a time, but we'll have to see. I don't know. It's not very encouraging, Emily. No, I think I'll just probably come over less, you know, I'll probably stay over at my place more and come here less in the three months. Well, certainly once you've got that bed lofted. Yes, exactly. Over your office slash closet. Yes. Whatever that means. Julian, do you think that this relationship will weather this storm

yeah I think so and who knows how long it's going to take me to root the cutting and if whether or not it's going to be successful you guys I love how she's just like yeah and I'm going to do whatever I want anyway. Yeah, exactly. I wish you two the best of luck.

Watch out for terrifying rabid dogs. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, guys. Well, Judge Hodgman, another very contentious case. Sorry about that, Jesse. Oh, no, the drummer's back. It's just my guy, my neighbor upstairs likes to...

The judge next door likes to play the tin can. Go ahead. Wait. Hang on, hang on. Quiet! Sandra Day O'Connor. Ever since she retired, she's been getting loopier and loopier. She rented chambers above me, and she's been building a loft.

It's nice that she has personal chambers, though, for when she gets the itch to render judgment. Yeah, yeah. We have a couple of matters of taste here on the docket that we can clear out. Let's go. Here's one from Leah. She says, my friend Carolyn and I have a dispute that arose from a recent game

of scattergories. Is a lamp an appliance? Carolyn says it is because it's something to accomplish a household task that requires energy. Leah says it is not because lamps are not considered by most people

to be an appliance and they wouldn't be found in the appliance section of a store. They would be found amongst the home decor. So who's right? Is a lamp an appliance? No, a lamp is not an appliance. A lamp is a lamp. That's in lighting. Appliances in small appliances are in appliances in small appliances. An appliance is a catch-all term for anything that is not a lamp. A lamp is very specific. It is a kind of lighting instrument. Here's one from Chang. She writes, my daughter and I have a long-standing argument. She's a beautiful and fashionable young lady who wears many of the clothing brands popular amongst her peer group. Gordon Cottrell, for example. She's a 12-year-old.

One of the brands is the brand whose name is spelled A-E-R-O-P-O-S-T-A-L-E. Aeropostale. The 12-year-old claims that that word is pronounced Air Apostol, whereas Chang prefers the French pronunciation, which you just gave us. Yeah, the non-12-year-old answer is almost always correct. Air apostol is the hyper-Catholic-themed sequel that Mel Gibson is making to Air America, but it is not the line of clothing that is Aeropostale. We have one final question

from Lise. Yes. It is Lise. Lise? Lice. Lice. Lice. Sorry, my mistake. You're right. One final question from Lice. When one is at the grocery store, whose responsibility is it when in the checkout line to put down the rubber stuff divider?

The person in front or the person behind? It's just my own thing. If I am buying my groceries, by which I mean pounds and pounds of cheese. I'll put it on the belt, and if someone comes up behind me, I will put the divider down on the belt. Is that an issue of courtesy, or is that an issue of a fear that someone is going to be confused and accidentally get my cheese? I think it's more the latter. But it is more common in my life, at least, to put the thing down myself to protect my food from the interloper from behind. I think that's an evolutionary practice.

So I'm going to say that that is the appropriate etiquette. What did Lice say? She seems to be caught in between and wracked by a combination of rage and guilt. Yeah, I would say Lice just needs to sort of roll with it. I don't think people are getting mad at her as much as she thinks they might be for putting down the divider when she does or for not putting it down when she doesn't. But if I were her, and I think that it's probably a good rule of thumb for most people, if you are in the grocery line first and someone comes in the line behind you, you should put down the divider or else someone else will steal your food.

I have been reading a really tremendous book lately, Judge Hodgman. I just thought I would take this opportunity to mention it. Oh, gosh. It's called That Is All. Oh, I'm familiar with that. It's written by someone named Joan Hodgmanman That's my pseudonym, actually I may be mispronouncing that Yeah, that's my Richard Bachman It's spelled the same way as my name But it's pronounced Joan Hojman So that people will read my book without prejudging it

Based on the fact that I ruled in their disfavor On the Judge John Hodgman podcast Many thousands of people subscribe to this podcast And frankly And I love this podcast, and frankly... And I love them all, and I love them all. Well, I don't. Because it has come to my attention that some of them have not yet purchased this book. Oh, gosh.

I think that this is an embarrassment, not just to this podcast, or to podcasting in general, or to the world of readers and books, But more than that, it's an embarrassment to all of us who draw breath on this watery world we call Earth. Here's the thing, Jesse. I don't take it quite as seriously as you do. I am not as offended as you are. The thing is that I wrote this book, that is all. I would be delighted to share it with other people because it is my life's work.

But I don't need to bully people or cajole people into buying it. After all, there is already a built-in incentive to buy the book, which is that if you buy the book, it relieves you of the obligation to read it. So, I hope people will take advantage of this special offer and I hope they enjoy it.

I will mention that I do feel obliged to bully people and I want to let anyone who's decided not to buy the book know that at any moment I might show up at their door and give them a pounding they won't soon forget. You are a bully by nature, Jesse, and that is why you have gone into the line of pretend law enforcement. That's my signature quality.

The book is available for sale at all of your major websites and at your local independent bookstores. And I hope you will go to areas of my expertise dot com and find out where I will be coming with the book to a town near you. And so that I can sign it for you and apologize on behalf of Jesse for his bullying. If you have a case for the judge, remember to email it to us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org and include your contact information, including telephone number. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast

is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support this show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Matt Gourley. His great podcast, by the way, is called Super Ego. You can find it in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com.

If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, email us and be sure and include your telephone number. The email address is Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. If you have thoughts about the show, you can always comment on it on our message board, forum.maximumfun.org. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.