Judge John Hodgman - The Bicycle Grief

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

Clare brings the case against her mother Suzanne and her stepdad David. Every summer, Clare spends a month visiting Suzanne and David at their house. Her visit always overlaps with the Tour de France. Suzanne and David watch every minute of the Tour because they don’t want to miss any of it. Clare says that’s getting in the way of them spending time with her!Thanks to reddit user u/problembearbruno for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the bicycle grief. Claire brings the case against her mother, Suzanne, and her stepdad, David. Every summer, Claire spends a month visiting Suzanne and David at their house. Her visit always overlaps with the Tour de France. Suzanne and David watch every minute of the tour because they don't want to miss any of it. Claire says that's getting in the way of them spending time with her. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

19 liters of hot chocolate, 7 liters of tea, 8 cooked eggs, a mix of coffee and champagne, 45 cutlets, 5 liters of tapioca, 2 kilos of rice, and oysters.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Claire, David, and Suzanne, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever. I do. I do also. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he probably wears one of those normal round bicycle helmets instead of those long skinny ones?

You know, those long skinny ones you know those long skinny ones those tron helmets yeah yes yes we will abide judge hodgman you may proceed dave suzanne and claire you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors can either of you and i'm gonna make you david and suzanne a team because you are co-defendants. Not fair, Claire, is it? No. I can tell. I can see you at the top of my screen.

Claire is like not enjoying that at all. It's okay. Don't worry, Claire. Everything's going to be fair. I made a note this morning. I said, make it fair for Claire. That was the note I made. Much obliged.

You're welcome. Claire, do you want to guess first? Sure. Well, it sounds like the meal list of the things that were eaten by a member of the Tour de France in like 1912 or something like that. But 1912 is the year you want to go for. Sure. 1912. Not earlier. No, I'm going to stick with 1912. I feel confident about that year. Remember how it was going to be fair for clarity?

Okay. I'll go with 1911. It's not Price is Right. Okay. 1911 tour de France, something that was a menu that was enjoyed by a bicyclist. Yes. I don't know any of their names, but I suspect that the other team will. So I'll leave it up to them. Probably Jean-Pierre or something. Sure. Right. Okay. Suzanne and David, which one of you is going to be, how do they do it? Someone rides in front of someone else to cut down on wind resistance? Draft behind. Who's going to lead and who's going to draft behind? I will lead. And I could see,

and by the way, I saw you nodding along when I was reading this off, David. I think you know this one. I wish I did, but I think it's actually a French to English translation from the Triplets of Belleville, the animated French classic from 15 years ago. So you did a really good job translating. So you don't want to say 16 years ago, David? Yeah, I think 16. Okay. I don't know. But I do know that Tribbles of Belleville does feature the Tour de France in it, but it's not a film that I've seen. I'm embarrassed to say. So it's unlikely that I would have quoted it since I know that you got it wrong, David. Suzanne, you want to, you want to give it a try? Sure. Um, I think it's a menu for a team's

I think it's a menu for a team's celebration because there were oysters and champagne in there. So you only do the champagne on the last stage of the tour. The cyclists, you know, ride along and they drink champagne. So I think it's maybe a menu from the last day of the tour in Paris. And I have no idea what year it would be from. Um, well, let me, let me say this. Do you want to, I'm sorry. Did you want to take a guess? No. Okay. You want to say 1910? I think it was probably around 1910. That's what I'm guessing. So none, none of you win. What's the, what do you get when you, uh, when you win the Tour de France a plate of stew no you get this massive

trophy this massive plate glass plate none of you get the plate de glace I think that means plate of ice anyway none of you get it but I'll tell you in order of furthest away from correct

coming in third was david coming in second suzanne coming in first closest to most correct claire it was fair for claire right absolutely but all guesses were wrong the diet this was the diet followed over i think over the course of the race by the winner of a 24-hour bicycle race in Paris. Not the Tour de France. It was a precursor to the Tour de France, and it was held in 1893. The winner traveled 701 kilometers. I didn't have time this morning to figure this out in miles, so you're going to get it in kilometers.

David, I know you'll know what I'm talking about. time this morning to figure this out in miles. So you're going to get it in kilometers. David, I know you're, you'll know what I'm talking about. The winner traveled 701 kilometers in 24 hours, racing around the Champs-Élysées, the site of the Tour Eiffel now. The winner was only one of two to actually finish the race. That is, bicycled all 24 hours because most of them were drinking red wine the whole time. And spoiler alert, it's a he-him person. He beat his closest competition by 49 kilometers. In other words, he traveled almost 50 kilometers more in 24 hours than number two. David, you like bicycle races, right?

Absolutely. You like to ride a bicycle. You like to ride your bike. Freddie Mercury style. Many miles. Right. I can see you. You like to ride your bike. Freddie Mercury style. Many miles. Right. I can see you're wearing your bicycle jersey right now. Yes. Do you know the name of the winner of that race? I think I might. Ritty. You're not going to win the case now, but I'd like to know.

Ritty Van Vlanderen. No, sir. Maurice Garin. Oh, darn. I'm sorry about that. It was a guess. You know who Maurice Garin is Oh, darn. I'm sorry about that. It was a guess. You know who Maurice Garin is. Of course.

Who? I don't know. It's Kim. It's him. Just like the other one. It's a made up name. Who? Qui?

Qui. That's what I meant to say, not Kim. My French and Spanish just live, fight each other in my brain all the time. Maurice Garin. Garin. Garin. Maurice Garin. Was the winner of the first Tour de France in 1903. Would you want to say something about this guy? Well, these are things we should know since we're mega fans. No, no. Look, you're look, you live in this century. You know, there's no, there's no reason that you would go read a wikipedia page to try to stump

me my job is to read a wikipedia page to stump you you're doing your job fine maurice garin won the first tour de france in 1903 and he described the race which is 2500 kilometers right david 500 kilometers, right, David? Over days. 19 days? 21. How many days? 21. 21 days. 21. With two rest days.

Right. But he described it as miserable. Yes. And he wrote to the organizer, I see myself from the start of the Tour de France like a bull pierced by banderillas. Those are the swords that they stick in the bull. A bull pierced by banderillas who Those are the swords that they stick in the bull.

A bull pierced by banderillas who pulls the banderillas with him, never able to rid himself of them. That's what it felt like. He also won the second Tour de France, but he was stripped of his title for cheating. The rumor was that he took a train for part of the way. But it was not particularly shameful that he was stripped of his title.

All four finishers were stripped of his title all four finishers were stripped of their title and disqualified because the tour de france look there's been some doping scandals correct in the tour de france but i don't think i don't follow this race particularly closely but i don't think that you have like fans of one team tearing down trees to block the road for members of another team which is what happened in 1904 bicyclists also people were cheating everywhere they were throwing tacks over the road throwing tacks over their shoulders and they were hanging on to motorcycles someone would bring a car in and a bicyclist would hold onto the car and the bicyclists were poisoning each other and pulling guns on each other during the race. This is the

sport that you love, David. Absolutely. Well, you know, some of those things you described still happen. The tax. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll get into that in a moment. Claire, you bring this case before my court, correct? Yes, Your Honor. What is the justice that you seek? What's the problem? What's the beef? So the beef is that for most of my life, as long as I can remember, every July, my mom and David have watched the Tour de France. That's when it happens, I presume? Yes, that's what happens in July. And now that I'm an adult, and I no longer live with them, I come and visit every summer because I'm on an academic calendar, and I live in the Deep South. So being where I live in the summer

is not particularly enjoyable. So I come up here to beautiful Western Massachusetts. And while I'm here, they watch approximately five hours of cycling every day. Wowie zowie. And that's a lot. Now, you are an adult. Correct. You live on an academic calendar. Yes. Which, by the way, that's the way everyone should live.

Agreed. That's what Joe McClellan told me in high school. He was the permanent substitute in the French department. He's like, I'm going to be in academia all my life. This is how people should live. Two months off, at least, in the summer. Or just move to France. Then you get two months off.

I've done that, too, but not at the moment. It tells me, yeah, but you don't live in France now. It says here you live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. That is correct. You're saying that every July you go and visit your mom and stepdad David in Western Massachusetts. And it says here, David and Suzanne, that you live in Sunderland, Massachusetts?

Correct. I'm not going to get you to say anything so the listeners can triangulate where you live. I just needed to say something about sunderland please do that route 47 very pretty road did i ever drive you down route 47 jesse when you were uh visiting me in western mass that time we may well have i mean what a what a pretty road not the kind of road name i would remember well they've renamed it did you know that you know what now that i think about it john It's not the kind of road name I would remember.

Well, they've renamed it. Did you know that? You know what? Now that I think about it, John, I think we went down Road 53. Then I made a mistake. Maybe it was 19. I don't know. Route 47, that's how you drive down from Lydon, Massachusetts, down into Hadley.

It's right along the river, the Connecticut River. And you drive by a bunch of tobacco farms because that's where they grow that beautiful Connecticut River sandy loam shade tobacco that they use for cigar wrappers. And then you cut over onto Cemetery Road once you get into Hadley and go take the back roads over by the Oxbow. I love everybody. Everybody in those top two frames is nodding along with my reverie right now. Poor Jesse Thorne is bored out of his mind. So let's get back to this case. David, you're wearing a cycling jersey. Suzanne, you're wearing a wonderful green bucket hat. I'm not sure if there's significance to that. Is that a cycling thing? It is. It's the hat that I got. It's some of the swag that I got when we actually went to visit Claire when she was living in France. And we went to an actual stage of the Tour de France, you know, live and in person. And there's a whole caravan that happens before the race and they throw out,

you know, stuff. And I got this really cute hat with the sponsor, one of the sponsor's names on it. What is Skoda? Is that what it says? I have no idea what it signifies. It's a brand up, sorry. No way for us to find out. David knows, he says.

David knows. It's a car. What is it? It's a car company. Oh, cars, okay. Claire, you were living in France, you mentioned? Yes. When were you living in France? I've lived there a few times. I think on that trip, this was probably about five or six years ago, and I was working at the European Court of Human

Rights in Strasbourg. Well, merci beaucoup for your work. Did you invite David and Suzanne over or did they just say we're coming because the bicycle race is happening? No, I invited them but I did not invite them to go to the tour exactly. I invited

them to go to the beach and we made a detour. A detour to France? Yes. How far a detour? I know. Sorry. I'm a dad too.

How far a detour was it? How wildly did they derange your plans? I think it was probably about a day. A day out of your way? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. All right.

I don't need the metric for that. I understand. All right, David, you're wearing your cycling jersey. What is what is bicycle racing mean to you? Wow, you do it, right? I do. Yes, I have been a competitive cyclist since my kids were young teenagers. And in fact, Suzanne and I have been together for 26 years. And I did my very first bike race that first year that we were together. And this was the Sunderland Classic. It wasn't. It was the Northampton Cycling Club Tour of the Hilltowns, which we run every year. And it's a brutal race. It's for someone of my age. It was 62 miles. And my goal was to not finish last. And I wasn't. So that was good. So you love bicycling. When did you start watching the Tour de France?

Well, I was thinking about that. And it was actually before I even met Suzanne. My kids would like to watch it with me. And this was this was during the really early years of Lance Armstrong's comeback. And it was at the time when there weren't phone apps to watch bicycle racing. It was you're all at the mercy of whatever the networks wanted to show you. And back in those olden days of the tour, they would show like, oh, half an hour summary every day of what that stage was like, even though the stage was six or seven hours long. My kids got into it. My son's a cyclist as well. He lives in Portland, Oregon.

My daughter just was absolutely enthralled by the whole spectacle of the tour. And I tried to get her into cycling in that way. And one of the things with the tour, you'll notice if you watch it, people paint people's names in the roadway to cheer their favorite riders on. And so when Hannah really got into it, I went out in front of our house. We were living in Amherst at the time and in latex paint, which I thought would last about a week or two, I painted across the entire roadway, Go Hannah. That is still there. 25 years later, you can still see it on the satellite or the aerial photography for Google Maps. So it has withstand, withstood the test of time.esse this was an amherst did you say

amherst massachusetts jesse could you get the amherst police department tell them we got a cold case cold i'm gonna crack a cold case today so you mentioned stages let me give the listeners who maybe don't know this including myself because i'll read a wikipedia page all day long about maurice garin cheating and his and his sad later life he died basically in anonymity in 1957 anyway i'll read that all day but i do you know i didn't read the rules of the bicycle race. So there are, it takes 21 days with two days of rest. We got that down. It is literally a tour of France. It goes all through different parts of France

and there are stages. Now what is a stage? A stage is the race of that day. It might be a time trial. It might be a flat sprinter stage that goes actually into Switzerland or into Belgium or into Spain. If it goes through the Pyrenees, there's climbing stages. There's all sorts of different types of stages. Maybe a third of the stages are really hard mountain stages. A third are kind of flat sprinter stages. And a third are somewhere in between. Okay. I just want to wrap this up because I can see that Claire is falling asleep while you were talking there. Right, Claire? A little bit boring?

Yeah. No, it's not. I mean, it's your passion, David. Correct? It's your passion. And Suzanne's. And Suzanne's as well so let the record show suzanne made one of these like head back and forth motions like yeah metza metza as they say in paris i am 100 on david's side on this one my mom has become by far the biggest tour fan of the family that, that she's going to

deny it, but she's the one. Yep. David and I are in agreement about this. Is Suzanne, why do you think your mom is going like, not really? Why, why, why? Cause she doesn't want to, she doesn't want me and David to gang up on her. Um, And so she's trying to minimize her responsibility in the situation. Why would you and David be ganging up on her? Your dispute is with the two of them. Yes, but sometimes there are just traditions in a family that are hard to break, regardless of the situation. And that is the customary way. Is there some history behind you and David ganging up on Suzanne over issues? Yes. Okay. I see that SCODA hat nodding. What's Suzanne, what do they tease you about? What do

they get it? What do they, what do they team up on you about? Oh, it can be just about anything. Um, you know, sometimes I will reveal my ignorance in certain ways and then they just have a field day with that. Like, like saying the other day, well, judge John Hodgman is a real judge, right? He's like an actual judge. And you know, hopefully anyone listening who didn't know that already, I'm hoping I'm not bursting their bubble like mine was burst. But, so they took me to task on that one. Really, it can be just about anything.

Oh, my sweet Skoda hatted summer child. No, I'm totally fake. But shame on you, Claire and David, for laughing at Suzanne. Well, you know, I've I've learned to take it and I know they do it out of love. I've learned to take it and I know they do it out of love. And sometimes I even like plant little things that I don't really believe or think just to see them go to town on me. But the reason I was met some mets about the passion is because I'm not a cyclist. I'm a Tour de France passionate watcher, but I'm not a cyclist. So I would say cycling is David's passion, but it's not my passion. You like to watch David cycle?

I do. I do. Yeah. I watch him cycle as much as I can when he's competing. Yeah. He kind of goes past pretty fast, though, I imagine. Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join.

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Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs. They're made in, made in. The Rohan duck. Made in, made in. Riders of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional-grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price.

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Well, it was something that grew on me very gradually. And the first thing that sucked me in was seeing them going through the landscape of France. Because as David said, it was always on in our house. He'd watch it with his kids. And I'd walk through the TV room and think, God, this is boring. How could anyone spend hours watching this? With the record show, Claire, this is boring. How could anyone spend hours watching this? And I would say- With the record show, Claire is nodding along. And so I understand where Claire's coming from. But I started to watch the scenery, the little villages. I started writing down the names of the towns that I wanted to go to when we went to France the next time. And then I started, if I wanted to hang out with David, And, you know, then I started, you know, if I wanted to hang out with David, you know, I would have to hang out with him watching the tour. And I started to, you know, learn about the different riders, their habits, their nicknames, their families, what they ate, you know, like all of that sort of stuff that didn't relate to the cycling as much. Yeah.

And then over, you know, over. I think they eat mostly cutlets, right? That's what I read. Lots of cutlets. Mostly they eat 40 to 45 cutlets. Yeah. Per 24 hour period. Yeah.

Per day. What's your favorite nickname of a cyclist? Oh, gee. Le Petit Prince. There is. There is Le Petit Prince. Really? Yeah.

Who is Le Petit Prince? Marco Pantani. Marco Pantani. Marco Pantani. I like the show. Bailiff Jesse, I bet he's pretentious, the Le Petit Prince, don't you think, Jesse? Oui. Oui. Does he wear a little coat and stand on a tiny little planet and help middle-aged men

with their midlife crises? Maybe he does. Do you keep waiting for him to get better, but he never does? He may do that when he's off the bike. I don't really know. But I like the Shark of Messina as a nickname. That's Vincenzo Nibali. The Shark of Messina.

Il Pistolero. And Il Pistolero, that's Alberto Contador, who Claire calls Albert the Counter. See, despite herself, Claire has learned a lot about cycling, kind of the way that I have. Yeah, but it doesn't sound like she's had a lot of choice. Correct. True. So, Claire, tell me about when you come home to Sunderland. You take that drive up Route 47.

Finally get to the house that Suzanne and David share. How much are they watching? Is this like World Cup type thing? Like all those World Cup weirdos in Brooklyn who get up at 7 a.m. and go to bars because the games are later on? Or what's happening? Paint me a picture. So it has changed a lot over the years because as David mentioned, the way that the tour is recorded and how much it's available in the US has changed.

But basically the way it is now is that essentially the entire race is filmed and that could be six or seven hours per day. Right. And then they have it on demand. So they don't watch it at 6 a.m. or 7 a per day. Right. And then they have it on demand. So they don't watch it at 6 a.m. or 7 a.m. They don't watch it live. They watch that day's stage from like dinner time,

including while dinner is being consumed, until whenever they fall asleep. And sometimes during the day also. So we're talking like five to seven hours of Tour de France watching per day. Yes. Except for those two rest days. Aren't you grateful for two rest days, Claire?

Well, usually what happens is that they will either fall asleep or there will be some really long stage and they'll say, oh, we'll save part of that for the rest day. So although the cyclists are resting, we are not resting. And when you say that the Tour de France is on during the dinner hour. Yes. Like, do they have a TV in the kitchen or the dining room? Or does everyone gather in the living room? What's going on? Yes.

So the TV is in the living room. They both have recliners that they've had for the last 25 years that they sit in with their dinners in their laps. that they sit in with their dinners in their laps. And I sit in another chair that is not as good of a view of the TV. On a small, hard stool. Yeah, I mean, the chair itself is fine, but it's just, it's sort of in a corner and you can only sort of halfway see the TV from there anyway, which actually is okay because I'm not really paying attention. But then we'll eat dinner there.

And sometimes I'm allowed to talk and sometimes I'm not. And it's a little unclear. Like I can't, part of the problem is I can't tell when something exciting is happening because it has to be one of the bicyclists is going faster than another one. Well, yeah, right. It would seem that that's part of the race. Mm-hmm. What would you,

has there ever been a case where you have made dinner for them and they just shove it in their mouths mutely? Yeah. While watching the Tour de France? Yes. In fact, one summer, they were living in Shrewsbury

and they were living on a dirt road in Shrewsbury. And I was studying for the bar exam and I was staying there while I studied for the bar exam. And I did not leave the house all day and I didn't talk to any other humans. And I would this is before they were retired and I would make dinner and they would get home from work and take the dinner that I had made and say hi to me. And that was the only human contact I had for the entire day. And then they would take their dinners up to the TV room and watch the tour. Wow. How did that make you feel? I mean, the whole experience was bad, but I mostly would blame studying for the bar exam. I would say it made me feel like I was starting to lose my mind a little bit, like being in this remote house on a dirt road.

And then my only human contact during that time was choosing an activity that was fascinating to them in a way that I just could not understand. You mentioned earlier that you come north to escape the heat of Tuscaloosa, aka Dreamland, Alabama. Yes. Now you're trying to tell me that you're not just visiting to escape the heat that you might actually like to see and spend time with your mother and stepdad? Yes. I love them very much. And it's very sad that I live so far away and it's hard to come up here. So when I come up, I like to come for a long time so that we can spend a good chunk of time together and hang out. And it says here that you travel with your dog, Gemma. Is that correct? Yes, I do.

Gemma like the Tour de France? She loves it. What? I can't deny it. She's obsessed. How do you know? Because she doesn't watch anything else on TV, but when the tour is on, she gets on David's lap,

and she will just sit there with rapt attention for the whole time. I believe that you did submit evidence or someone did. Yes, I did. Of Gemma. Sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say it's not exactly evidence in my favor, but yes. Well, you know, it's a wonderful photograph of David on this recliner in a very comfortable woodland situation with Gemma on his lap.

I don't see Gemma watching the TV though. I see Gemma just snoozing out. Gemma's legs look like little drums. It's true. What kind of dog is a little Gemma? She's a mix of Chihuahua and Pomeranian and Beagle and Shih Tzu and a bunch of other stuff. A true lap dog. She's a funny little dog.

This is just Gemma like hanging out. Well, this was before. So the TV you can kind of see in the picture in the background there is not on yet. This is David had just gotten his martini and they were just sitting. This was like preparation for tour watching so this was this picture was before the tour because when the tour goes up comes on i usually try to leave the room so this was preparation jesse look at this guy sitting in this chair i mean his dog on his lap and his martini waiting for the tour de France to come on. I love everything about this, John.

I know it speaks to your love of mixed drinks. I love a lap dog too. I love a comfy chair. I love a wood paneled den, but go on. I can understand it from the dog's perspective as well, because in the absence of a Tour de France garbage truck edition, watching bikes race is about as good as it gets for a dog. Yeah, maybe you're right. I hadn't thought about that.

Boy, oh boy. David, you mentioned that you have at least two children from a prior relationship, it sounds like. And they're older than Claire? They are the same age as Suzanne's two children, opposite gender. My son, Taylor, lives in Portland, Oregon, and my daughter Hannah lives in Alaska. And she is actually arriving this evening for a visit. Oh, very nice. Very excited. With her husband.

It's interesting. She's chosen to visit before the Tour de France starts. True. But the point is your nest is as empty as it gets. This raises a question. Claire, why don't you visit in mid August and I usually have conferences and other things in June. July is kind of the biggest stretch. It's also the least pleasant time to be. That's perfectly reasonable. Yeah. I mean, august it gets hot in sunderland too true it's the tuscaloosa of western massachusetts uh during all this uh time watching the tour de france in this house is there something you'd like to be watching claire well uh i i would be happy for us to be doing something that doesn't involve watching television. What would you like to be doing instead of Tour de France?

I would like to be talking to each other and going outside and going for a walk in the evening, going down to the Sugarloaf Frosty maybe and getting a soft serve. Oh, my boy. You are just – You ever read any Marcel Proust? Jess, you ever read any Marcel Proust? I've read about Marcel Proust. He wrote that book. I went to UC Santa Cruz, John.

He wrote that children's picture book, Madeline. All about how when you remember stuff, it's good. I remember that one smelled really good. Yeah, that was one of the best smelling picture books of all time. It's pretty well known. I think Claire is pandering to me specifically here by pitting bicycle racing against ice cream. They have pretty good ice cream with the sugar loaf. Creamy, do they call it? They call it a creamy, ice cream with the sugar loaf. Creamy. Do they call it,

they call it a creamy, right? Or a frosty. Creamy is in Vermont. Creamy is in Vermont. The sugar loaf frosty. Yeah. I used to go there.

Um, well, but see, it seems to me that that's incompatible with the tour de France. Watching schedule. Yes, I agree. What do you suggest should be done that they not watch it or that they

watch it i mean they're you're already watching it asynchronously david and suzanne why not take a night off to go go for a walk in town or see and speak to and enjoy the presence of and company of your uh daughter and step? That's a good question. And now that we're retired, we can do that. We could do that. She won't be with us. Actually, this year, I'm going to be at her house during the Tour de France. So that's going to be interesting. I don't think we'll be watching it at her house. Oh, wait, it's, it's, it's, it's a reverse Uno card. You're going down to Tuscaloosa this year. I am. Yes. Yes. Because, um, I love my dear little grand dog Gemma so much. And Claire's going to be traipsing around Europe, um, doing conferences and things. So I'm going to hang out

and be there with Gemma. Oh, you're dog sitting in Tuscaloosa. Did you ever see, Jesse, you ever see that independent film dog sitting in Tuscaloosa? That was one of the lesser Zach Braff movies. Yeah. I think it was nominated for a firecracker award. Yeah. For the record, I just want to put on the record that I did not request that my mother come to Alabama in July to dog sit for me. She suggested it. So just in case everyone thinks that I'm just being incredibly entitled here. Or punitive. Oh, good point. Yes. I also didn't schedule my conference in Belgium to overlap with the tour intentionally there. It just happened to coincide. Why don't you send Gemma on a little dog bus up to Massachusetts? They have those, right? It's a greyhound bus for dogs, little greyhounds. I'm making this up. It's a service that I wish existed, though.

That would be great. I did take her up with me this time. She's here. She's with me now. Seems to me like you could just leave. Well, you don't want to leave her there. Why do you want to go to Tuscaloosa, Suzanne? Well, keep Gemma there. I suggested that to Claire this morning, actually. But I actually love going to Tuscaloosa. I've been several times to Dog Sit and also to Baton Rouge, where Claire used to live, to Dog Sit. Yeah. And I love my alone time there with Gemma because usually it's, you know, when Claire is going off to do something else. And, you know, I'll see her at the beginning and at the end.

And then Gemma and I just hang out. And, you know, this year is going to be hard because I won't be watching the tour, but David said he would wait till I got back and he would wait till I got back. I, I, I just have to say, Claire made a, a pretty interesting gesture there. I don't want to interpret it for you, Claire. It was like a open hands, like, see what, what was, but I don't, but I don't want to put words in your gesture. What, what, what are you trying to say with that gesture? Well, just that when they choose to, they can watch it later. Like it's they, they're the whole time they've said, we can't wait. We can't watch it later. We have to watch it while

it's going on. But this isn't the first year that they've waited. They went to Alaska two years ago, I believe, during the tour and postponed at least a week of watching it. And they are capable of doing this. The access to the tour is not what it once was. And it is entirely possible to spread it out over shorter period, like, you know, a couple hours a day for a longer period of time. All those things. But if you put off a whole week of watching the tour, David and Suzanne, that means you have to be on like pretty heavy duty lockdown

if you're trying to keep it fresh for yourself. Right. So I do a lot of group rides with the Northampton Cycling Club two, three times a week. They're talking about the Tour de France a bunch. And I always have to when I roll up to the start, it's like nobody say anything. I'm three stages behind. And I almost always hear who has won that stage somehow, either through social media or someone who knows I'm a cyclist saying, oh, what about such and such? Wasn't that a great win today? So it's really hard for me. If I get more than a few days behind, I generally will find out who has won certain stages. The Northampton Cycle Racing Club, what's it called?

Yeah, Northampton NCC, Northampton Cycling Club. Oh, the NCC. Yeah, I've been in touch with them. cycling club. Oh, the NCC. Yeah. I've been in touch with them. They, I, they love doing that to you. They love spoiling the tour de France and they come up with new ways to do it. Yeah, they do that. Claire, do you feel that you catch the brunt of tour de France more than your siblings and step siblings, sibling and step siblings? Absolutely. Yes. None of the rest of them will watch it ever. Why do you feel you bear the brunt of it? Because I stay with them in their house and nobody else does that. Right. And how does it affect your boundaries when you're visiting them? Do you feel chased out of the house? Do you feel ignored? Like what's going on? Yeah. I mean, it is just, it's like, this is this very elaborate, long ritual has to happen every single day. And during it, if I want to be in a room with other people or eat my dinner or

be in the only room in the house that has air conditioning during the times in July when that is necessary. I must be in that room. And even when I just go into the other room or go say, oh, I can stay with a friend or something like that, my mom really wants me to be there. She really, it's, my presence is requested for this. So it's not just that. And then also like this time, even though it wasn't during the tour, I got here and within five minutes,

they started telling me about what had happened in the Giro d'Italia, which just ended. So I know that there was a time trial that ended on a mountain, which is really unusual. I, you know, I don't need that information to be in my, in my brain brain so you feel like you're being invited but the moment you get there you're being ignored in a way in favor of this other this other sibling that you have called the tour de france yes this golden child of july yes this petit prince i don't remember what the French word for July is. Juillet. Juillet.

Merci beaucoup. Oh, yeah. You must speak a lot of French. I do. Do they speak any French? My mom does. Un petit peu? Un petit peu.

Seulement oui. Yeah. Arguably, you can probably follow more of the Tour de France than, the tour de France than they can. Cause they're just watching the cycling, but you're, you've been to France, you've lived in France, you know, the culture, you know, the culture of, of Europe, you're going to Belgium, the, the, the, the capital of Europe, you know, the, you know, all the ins and the outs and this, and the cultural stuff behind it, arguably, wouldn't you say? Sure. I know I have the same feeling about the Tour de France as many French people do, which is that it's kind of annoying. And whenever I

live there, I don't actually go when it's, you know, coming through my town. Do you have any hobbies or favorite shows or anything else that that Suzanne and David don't like? Well, not that not that my mom doesn't. My mom and I have very similar taste, actually. And so what we have been watching, there's not a, there's not a, any sort of cycling on at the moment. So my mom and I share a real love of international dating shows. And we have tried to get David on board with that. And he's not about it. Well, people like what they like and dogs like what they like too. That's what we're learning, I suppose. What's your favorite international dating show? I could probably watch that. Our current favorite is Love Village. Love Village. Yes. I was really hoping you were going

to say Love Island because the Love Island UK, I have a very fraught relationship with that show. Yes. No. Love Village. Love Village is much stranger. Okay. I'm going to check it out. David, what time do they start riding the bicycles in France? Six in the morning.

Six in the morning. Well, six in the morning our time, but usually a stage will start in France like noon-ish. No, I'm talking about Eastern Standard Time. 6 a.m. Or daylight time, whatever it is, 6 a.m. You ever get up and watch? No. No, we... Par quoi non?

Because we record it and I can watch it on either my phone app or on one of the cable stations that we get that covers it. And I record it that way. So there's all sorts of different ways to watch it. We can watch it on our phones, on our TV. You put it off Tour de France for a week to go to Alaska. You've made accommodations in the past. It sounds as though you don't make accommodations

particularly for Claire when she comes and visits you. Is it because, why not? Well, that's a good question. Actually, I met my daughter and son on the West Coast last July as well. So Suzanne and I had to delay our tour watching last summer as well. Right. I guess. But is it because, well, you take a guess and then I'll tell you what I think it is.

My guess would be that I was under the impression that Claire kind of liked it. A little bit, maybe. Wow. And maybe she just liked to tease us a little bit. This must be a real eye opener for you. Yeah, as well. It is. This is not correct usage,

but a real Trump-loy. Yeah. That is true. So, yeah, I, I didn't think that, that this was that big

of a problem for Claire. Is it plausible, Claire, that David and perhaps your mom as well, quote unquote, didn't realize that this was a problem for you? I think it's possible, but I think it's probably required a certain amount of delusion or a certain amount of, you know, wishful thinking, maybe is a better way to put it.

or a certain amount of wishful thinking, maybe is a better way to put it. I mean, I do sit with them and watch it. And I think part of what it is, is that the names, as you heard, are like really, they get stuck in your head. Their names are these really, you know, wild sounding, complicated- The Shark of Messina.

Exactly. The Drapes of London. I will repeat things. You know, I'll mimic it. I'll talk, you know, because it's like better than nothing. So I think maybe I've made the best of it, more or less. Have you gone along to get along? Yes, I would say overall.

along to get along? Yes, I would say overall. Prior to inviting your mom and stepdad onto a podcast, did you ever sit them down and say, hey, could we not do this so much? Or express your feeling of like you want to take it down a thousand when it comes to Tour de France time? I don't know how clear I've been about that in the past. I think because I am a guest in their home, I had sort of figured, well, anyone would know that a guest in your home doesn't want to watch five hours of cycling every day. So if they're insisting on doing it anyway, it must be so important that I shouldn't, So if they're insisting on doing it anyway, it must be so important that I shouldn't, you know. Anyone would know, but except for retired people.

Right. More on that later. Okay. Now that you've heard Claire's point of view clearly, David and Suzanne, does that change how you're going to watch the tour? This year is obviously different because Suzanne's going to go down to Dog Sit Gemma. They'll probably be watching the Tour de France together. Are you going to watch it alone up there, David? No, we have an agreement.

Suzanne and I have an agreement that I will refrain from watching while she's gone. When will, when she comes back, we'll catch up. And, you know, it might take us till September or October, but that's when the Vuelta starts. So just in time for Claire's visit, you'll wait until. No, there's no fun. It's not fun watching it without David. I wouldn't watch it by myself, even with Gemma. And I feel. I get it. You love each other, but I'm going to say this. Do you hear what Claire is saying?

Would you make an accommodation in future, let's say next July, if she were to spend July with you in Sunderland? Well, I certainly would. Now that you know? I would because, you know, I'm her mother. And of course, this, you know, makes me feel like, you know, I'm prioritizing this bike race over my very own flesh and blood whom I love dearly. So, um, so yeah, I think, I think that I did think it cause Claire, because Claire has this history of kind of teasing me and, um, you know, getting on my case about various things. I, I didn't really think that it was that big a deal for her that, you know, she's a very independent, mature woman and she comes and goes as she pleases. And, you know, she could always make plans to go out with friends. She has a lot of friends who still live around here. I've given

her my car to take when she's here. So, you know, she could have made other choices. She could just leave the house. She could just leave the house. Yeah. She could just leave the house. And, yeah, and she and I do spend a lot of time together when she's here, you know. But in answer to your question, yes, I think that I would feel horribly guilty if, you know, I just continued on with my ways of watching the tour to France. But, but if David decided that he was just going to keep watching no matter what, then I would be in a dilemma because then I, you know, if he said, okay, you know, tonight we're going to take the night off and we're going to go do something together as a family or just talk or whatever, that would be one thing. But if he said, no, I'm going to watch the tour and for you, you know, you two can go do whatever you want. Then,

then I, that would be a, that would be a dilemma for me i would be torn but i think i would have to to follow you know to come down on the side of my daughter if if given that choice sorry david no i get it it says here uh the claire your ideal ruling would be that suzanne and david limit their tour watching to fewer hours while you're visiting or at the at the very least not watching the tour until after dinner without the tour David you say your your ideal ruling is keep everything the same and Suzanne you say your ideal ruling is Claire forgives you Claire do you forgive Suzanne yes see if we can get this out of the way absolutely i i i harbor no ill will about this at all it's more that this seems like like anytime i explain how many hours of cycling i'm watching when i'm visiting to anyone else they seem shocked by this

and i feel like i've sort of gotten worn down over the years so no how many years are we talking about this happening would you say well this pattern of going to visit in the summertime and having a fourth person in the home the tour de france the scene of the shark or whatever oh probably 10 10 years with some some within that time, 10 or 15 years, something like that. Right. Right. Okay. Okay.

I think I have heard everything I need to in order to come to a decision. I'm going to go into my private velodrome. Jesse, that's a bicycle racing stadium, right? Velodrome. That's my favorite David Cronenberg movie. Oh, yeah. Right. Forgot about that. Anyway, I'm going to ride my green machine around in a circle for a while while I puzzle

this out. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the court. Claire, how do you feel about your chances? I mean, they're very charming. And so I understand why anyone would be sympathetic, especially if you could see them in their cycling outfits that they're currently wearing. But I also feel like, you know, my requests are reasonable. So optimistic. David and Suzanne, how do you feel? I think, um, I think that David is, um, he's, he's not going to get his way when this one,

um, uh, because, you know, I'm the mom, so I'm kind of the, like the tiebreaker. And I feel like, um, I'm somewhere in the middle here, you know, I'm the tour tour to France fan, big time fan, but I'm a bigger fan of my daughter than I am even of the tour to France. So, um, I think, I think this is going to be a harder one for David than it will be for me. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a minute. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast,

The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice, but to embrace because yes,

listening is mandatory. The JV club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-A. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

John, what's going on with you? Well, as you know, nothing's going on with me because I am on strike along with the Writers Guild of America. with me because I am on strike along with the Writers Guild of America. I'm also a member of the Screen Actors Guild and American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, aka AFTRA, who may go on strike as well soon. So I'll be double striking. Thanks for all your support on the picket line and on social media. If you want to find out more about why we're on strike and what it means to even you, you can always go to my link tree, L-I-N-K-T-R dot E-E slash Hodgman. It's also in my bio and my Instagram account. But I was going to say, since I don't have anything going on, there are a couple of things I wanted to mention. I did my research for the cultural reference and I came up with that incredible one about the first winner of the Tour de France.

But there are a couple of things that I, a couple of holes that I went down, a couple of paths that I trod in search of a good cultural reference. And I was reminded of a couple of great things, including I was looking for a good quote about the Tour de France from Breaking Away. Have you ever seen Breaking Away,

the movie Breaking Away, Jesse Thorne? That movie rules rules that movie rules so hard what a great movie it's a nice short list of dramedies are that good diner breaking away broadcast news i was gonna say broadcast news and i feel like breaking away is one that has disappeared from a lot of people's consciousness. And it's about four 19-year-old high school graduates in Bloomington, Indiana, who are not going to college and are facing a 19-year-old midlife crisis as a result. One of them's really into bicycle racing. It's got Dennis Quaid. It's got Jackie Earl Haley. It's got Daniel Stern. And of course the bicycle guy, Dennis Christopher, plus Barbara Barry, Paul Dooley. It's a wonderful, wonderful movie. And it's just so funny and great and watchable and very bicycly.

And it had a little quote about the Tour de France in it, but it was not meaningful enough. a tour de france in it but it was not meaningful enough i also was reminded of the song by craft work tour de france one of the early synthesizer music songs hits of the early 1980s by craft work and learned that that song is the song that uh michael boogaloo shrimp chambers does the broom dance to in the movie breakin everyone talks about break into electric boogaloo Shrimp Chambers does the broom dance to in the movie Breakin'. Everyone talks about Breakin' 2 Electric Boogaloo, and maybe that's a good movie. But Breakin' is a really genuinely good movie, and that scene where he dances to Kraftwerk's Tour de France

is bananas good. And he's a really good dancer. Michael Boogaloo Shrimp Chambers if you're listening, good job and rest in power Shabba Doo. Jesse Thorne, what do you have got going on? What do you have got going on? Well, I watched Style Wars on Canopy recently. That's the best

early hip-hop movie by a wide margin. No offense to Breakin' or Beat Street or any of the other great early hip-hop movies. But the clear winner is Style Wars. So I recommend watching Style Wars if you can find it anywhere, including free on Canopy if your library system provides Canopy to you. The movie is so good.

Style Wars is incredible. Incredible. I'm putting it on my list. And, of course, I still have the Put This On Shop. So go to putthisonshop.com. Speaking of style, not even style wars, style triumphs, style victories. You know what I'm going to do? Put This On Shop.

I wasn't planning on this. You know, we have pocket squares in the Put This On Shop. This is an experiment. Yeah, I do know about it. Okay. So the pocket squares, I should take vintage, mostly vintage textiles. about it okay so the pocket squares i should take vintage mostly vintage textiles um they are hand cut hand rolled uh hand sewn they're very special uh and i'm going to make a code you use the code breaking away all right and a half price on pocket a half price on pocket squares. Half price on pocket squares with code breaking away.

It's only going to go to the end of the month. Till the end of the month, half price on pocket squares with the code breaking away. It's an experiment. I don't know. Are people listening to this? Probably. Who knows? Breaking away.

And don't forget to check out $6 a pack Tops Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom trading cards. $6 a pack. Those are going to be full freight. You're going to have to pay full freight for those. Full freight. And a big sale on a Mallory Tope Fedora, 718 size. Go check it out. Putthesonshop.com.

Shall we get back to the case? Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. David, you said that bicycle race has stages, stages, étage, I believe they say, stages. You know what else has stages, Claire, Suzanne, and David? stages you know also stages claire suzanne and david life life has stages and this is partially a life stage dispute here because um claire what you what you need to understand is that uh your mom and stepdad watch an inordinate amount of bicycle racing. And when you, and I need you to hear and understand this, when you go to say to your friends, this is how much Tour de France is going on in this house.

And your friends go, that's too much. They're right. Your friends are right. Your instincts are correct. It is an unusual amount. Five to seven hours of cycling content per day is an unusual amount unless you're a retired couple whose children are grown and out in the world. And now you can do whatever the Francais you want. This is the thing about growing older that, uh, you know, I am, I I'm, we are incipient empty nesters ourselves. My wife was a whole human being in her own right. And I, and, um, we we've, we've, we've gotten into a, into a, a, a moment in our lives where we're starting to think,

what is the pattern going to be once there are no other adult humans living in our house and it's just the two of us and i can see myself on a chair with a dog in my lap and a martini very easily and one of the things that i didn't even mention about this um this piece of evidence that you sent in which you can see obviously on our Instagram page at Judge John Hodgman, as well as our show page at MaximumFun.org. One of the things I didn't mention about this sitting with dog in lap and martini portrait is the amount of sunshine shining in the window. This is a mid-afternoon dog sit with drink moment and i think it's wonderful my wife is holy mirror right now i are thinking about what our patterns are going to be and we're going to we're going to go into

into some quiet patterns it's going to involve a lot of antiques roadshow i can tell you that right now and a lot of going to bed at 8 30 p.m and we And we're getting into that moment of our lives where it's just for the first time in 22, 23 years, it's just us again, choosing what we do with our time. And it's a very liberating moment. The trick is to not get so far down into that comfort zone of empty nest retirement that you can't come out again, say if an adult daughter is coming to visit you. So for example, our ages are different, but I think this is a fair analogy. We still have a soon to be adult son living living with us but our adult daughter doesn't live with us anymore and she came back and the whole pattern of my life changed which is to say i was being held forced to stay awake until midnight every night watching yellow jackets and this was later than

i wanted to stay up i enjoyed yellow jackets a lot this is definitely later than i wanted to stay up and it definitely was frustrating because i still haven't finished season three of love island that she was making me watch she's making me watch it for three years we still haven't finished it yet and i'm like can we do this she's like no we're doing this and i say yes okay okay i will and then the other night she's left again but the other night she's, are you ready to watch another Yellow Jackets? I'm like, it's 1230 in the morning. She's like, I know, but I'm only here for another day.

I'm like, okay, you win. Because soon enough, she was going to go back to her life. And then I can go back to my life of joining my spouse in bed at 930. Where, by the way, she gets to go to sleep. I don't understand why my wife was a holy man in her own right gets to go to sleep whenever she wants. I have to stay up. I have to stay up and watch yellow jackets. That's how it goes. That's just the way it is. Because when your adult child comes back and wants to share and spend time with you, that's what you do. That's what you do. You interrupt your pattern. So what I'm charged with is how to, you know, the reason and the other life stage thing here, Claire, is that you're an

adult. But what's complicating this is that unlike your adult siblings who don't come for a big stretch of time because they don't get to enjoy the academic lifestyle. You're a mature adult doing a kind of young adult thing. It's just like coming home for the summer and spending it with your mom and stepdad for a big chunk. Like you're entwining in their lives in a way that is sort of like reminiscent of when you were much younger than you were, you know, maybe coming home from college, for example, as opposed to coming home from the international court of human rights. And so it's hard to, it's hard, like, you know, you've, you've done your, your bit of kind of like go along to get along. Like, yeah, my mom and stepdad watch a lot of this thing, but who am I to say, I do, I want to watch love village now or whatever. It's like their house, their rules,

that kind of thing. No, you're a grownup invading their retirement. So what we need to do is find some ways to honor both your, your actual mature adulthood and the fact that David and Suzanne have obviously earned the right to be as weird as they want to be. Now I know what the solution is. And it's really, really, really obvious because I know that I go to bed at nine 30, but I no longer sleep past 5.00 AM. Just get up, David, just get up and watch this thing. Watch it live. I'm just saying you should consider it a couple of days, get the head of your, you know, win the race for once with your with your cycling team get the

scoop make them look like dopes know all the stuff that's happening you get that thing you knock that thing out from 6 a.m 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 1 p.m then you take a two-hour nap then go to frosty what time out why go ahead you? You object. Yeah. I just have to say that we don't really watch during daylight hours, except in the morning because I'm usually out cycling in the afternoon. So we don't really start watching. I mean, it's seven hours. Sounds like an amazing amount of time and it is, but we don't really start until five, no six or seven at night. Look, I don't know. I don't know the details of your schedule. No, you do. I'm just saying, I'm just saying this. This is one proposed solution, which is you get up, you watch at least some of it. You go about your day, you go on your bicycle

race or whatever. You come back, you fix dinner, and then you watch what you missed. You finish up that evening. You get the whole day in that one day. That's a really good idea, actually, because Claire's dog, Gemma, wakes up very early. And speaking of not being able to- Because she wants to watch the bicycle race. Yeah. So she and David, and me, could sit and have our coffee and watch cycling, and Claire could go back to sleep for a little while because nobody wants to get up at 5.30 with Gemma. But if Gemma's up, the first thing she has to do is come and find David and I and wake us up. Maybe that's a solution that you

could look into. I think there are a lot of solutions that you could look into that would allow Claire to feel seen, heard, and valued when she travels from Tuscaloosa to spend time with you. And look, we both know that she's just trying to get out of the heat, but I think she also loves you. So whatever you work out, the adjustment, and I'm finding in Claire's favor here, the adjustment is don't watch Tour de France with dinner. Like after dinner, terrific. Before dinner, great. Take a break. Go to the Frosty.

Get a hamburger. Get outside. Get some fresh air. Like it's the last thing you need, David. All you have ever had is fresh air your whole life. But you know what I mean. Spend some time with your adult daughter slash stepdaughter around the dinner hour.

That's a good idea. Maybe play a game. Maybe play a game of meal born. Oh no, no, no. I don't know why that just struck me that that might, I don't even remember.

That's a French card game about car racing, isn't it? Car racing or is it bicycle?'t it? Car racing? Yeah. Or is it bicycle racing? No, it's cars. Cars. Anyway, the dinner hour is out, but I also need you to respect, Claire, that anything outside of the dinner hour is fair game for cycling.

This is their whole world. Look at these two. Like, I understand why it's like, you know, like, you know, David came along and stole your mom from you and turned her into a Tour de France addict. But she deserves happiness. And that bucket hat, she loves it. She loves it. But I think if you're visiting, if someone's taking the time to visit you and they love you and they're not just there to get some of that sweet Sunderland cool breeze, set aside dinner time at least. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Suzanne, David, how do you feel? Oh, I feel that that's fair. I got a little alarmed thinking about game playing because I absolutely hate to play games, but maybe this is... No, that's off the table. That's off. Never mind. I'm sorry I said that. Okay. I thought maybe that was my penance. No, I feel guilty for having put Claire through this torment for all this time. And I apologize, Claire, sincerely. And I think that the points that were made were very fair and, you know, that our retired lives, you know, are quirky in the way that they are and different from other people's.

But that when you're here, we should definitely prioritize spending time with you and hanging out with you and being available to you. Claire, how do you feel? you and being available to you. Claire, how do you feel? I feel delighted that this went in my favor, although I'm sorry that my mom feels bad because I certainly wouldn't want her to feel guilty about this. It's just one of those things that you start doing and it starts out being one hour and then it's seven hours a day for three weeks. And, you know, where did the time go? Yeah. And I'm just going to jump in to just join you in enjoining your mom from feeling guilty.

Like you, you're doing what you love with a person that you, that you love. And it's fine. Like, as Claire pointed out, it's easy to get caught up in, in habits and in passions and in hobbies. Um, and you don't even see it even when a third party comes into the house and goes, that's weird. Sometimes it's hard to see, but it's just fine. You're just following, you're just having fun. You guys are having fun. I completely support it. You shouldn't feel guilty. We're making the adjustment now. Guilt is a pointless emotion unless there is adjustment of behavior to go with it.

And that's going to happen. So it's great. Don't worry about it. Easy for you to say, but you're not a mom, you know, mom guilt. But I hear you. I hear you. Both my parents were Catholic. Oh, okay. Nevermind. I know a little bit about it. Okay. All right. I know a mom guilt. But I hear you. I hear you. Both my parents were Catholic. Oh, OK. Never mind. A little bit about it. OK. All right. I know a little bit. Fair enough.

Fair enough. I think this is great. I'm perfectly supportive of that decision. And you were right, Your Honor. It was an obvious decision in the grand scheme of this dispute. So I think we could easily tone it back and accommodate Claire's visiting and do more things together that's not sitting in our comfy chairs watching the Tour de France. Just that's for after dinner. That's all I'm saying.

Dinner time. You got to walk down and get some soft serve. David, Suzanne, Claire, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you, too. That was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We'll have swift justice in just a second. Our thanks first to Redditor Problem Bear Bruno for naming this week's episode the bicycle grief john we had on jordan jesse go the other day a fiction writer and stand-up comic named amy silverberg very cool very funny lady she joined the ranks of jordan jesse go guests who have been published in the paris review which after careful consideration turned out to be way more than I expected. It's like I remember that John was in the Paris Review and he was really proud of that. My first meaningful publication, it's true. I had no idea about all the other – anyway, my point here is that all Reddit usernames are goofy.

And Amy Silverberg, who literally is, she sold a novel. She's a professor at USC. She has a PhD. And her Reddit handle is cdew69. Anyway, join the conversation with us over at MaximumFun.reddit.com. That is also where we are asking for title suggestions for cases. So make sure to submit them there. Judge John Hodgman, of course, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

Our producer is Valerie Moffitt. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Julie writes, my husband, Corbin, we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Julie writes, my husband Corbin says water doesn't have a flavor. I say it does. Otherwise, how would I know? I like the taste of tap water better than filtered water. He argues it's the minerals in the water that have flavor. I count those minerals as an ingredient of the water. Please order my husband to admit water has a flavor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Water has flavor. Come on, Corbin. I mean, you know, the first time humans tasted water, it wasn't in a Brita. It was coming out

of a stream, having run over rocks and bugs. it's got all kinds of flavors in it you know they came out of a you go to saratoga springs why do they call it saratoga springs because they got these natural springs popping up all over the place and believe me you get if you go to the the union motel and go to their natural spring in their courtyard and you fill up your your plastic pitcher that they give you with the nourishing mineral water that's coming out of the earth and you put it in your hotel bedside table and by 2 a.m it's turned brown in your room smells like farts then you know so the flavor of that water so yes obviously i just want to go back to the paris review for one thing because i got to give i just remembered one of my very very favorite jokes regarding the Paris Review. And lots of people, it's a very famous tweet by a very funny person named Patricia Lockwood.

I can see that Valerie Moffitt knows this one. Legendary tweet. Here it comes. At Paris Review. So is Paris any good or not? And she doesn't even put a question mark on it. That's just so spectacular. Patricia Lockwood, the author of Priest Daddy and other books,

and the winner of the Thurber Prize for humor. Anyway. Hey, everybody, thanks for all of your case suggestions. We need some more. Obviously, it's how we make the show. This week, you know, we're heading into the summertime. I've already put out a call for summertime disputes in the past. Maybe you've got someplace else in Saratoga Springs that you like to visit and you think I'm wrong. Maybe you prefer, maybe you don't like a road trip. Maybe you like an airplane trip.

How about this? What about camping disputes? Surely you and your partner, who is a whole human being in their own right, or your kids or your friends have gone on a hike or gone camping have you ever been caught in the bottom of a ravine and had to cut your own arm off to get out of it any camping disputes that you have disputes camping etiquette camping horror stories let us know just go to maximumfund.org slash jjho and of course jesse we don't just want camping disputes right we'll take any kind of dispute you, it's a camping horror story for me, John. What? Real life camping horror story.

All of camping? Yeah. I go camping. That's the horror. That's the horror. Okay. The premise is I go camping. That's it.

But we truly will take disputes on any subject. But we truly will take disputes on any subject. In fact, if you are listening to this right now, I would challenge you to go into your brain, rack it a little bit, and think about who you've got a problem with. Think about it right now. It's probably someone you love, your romantic partner, your kid's little league coach who's a really nice, good coach. Except for that one thing. That you're on a a first name basis with.

Except for that one thing. Exactly. That's what we want to hear about is that one thing. We want to hear about that one thing. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO is where you can submit it. And you know what? I'm going to go one step further, John. All right.

When you hear your friend complain about that one thing. Yeah. Push them to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. No, don't physically shove them, but just encourage thing? Yeah. Push them to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. No, don't physically shove them, but just encourage them. Yeah, no, do not physically shove them. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. We will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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