Judge John Hodgman - The Burden of Goof

Episode Date: September 17, 2014

Michelle's fiance is a prankster and has taken things too far! Will the judge crack down on the goofs?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the burden of goof. Michelle brings the case against her fiancé, Josh. She says Josh is a prankster, and she enjoys his playful nature. But the practical jokes have gotten out of hand. She wants him to tone it down now. Josh says that his intentions are good, and that everybody has a good laugh afterwards. intentions are good and that everybody has a good laugh afterwards. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and offers the obscure cultural reference. Hello? Hello? Do you know who I am? Hello? Hello?

Do you know who I am? This is John Hodgman. Hello? Hello? Guys, you have to answer me. I thought this was the obscure culture reference. Yes, we know who you are. We know who you are, Judge. This is John Hodgman.

Have you by any chance lost your kitty? Uh, yes, we have lost our kitty. Are there things that make you angry? Hello? Yes, yes, yes. Do you believe in monsters? Yes. No.

Well, there's no such thing as monsters. There aren't even live dinosaurs anymore. Hello? I remember one time, some of our neighbors, who were studying ballet, got dressed up to look like raccoons. One of them was a mother raccoon,

and the other a father raccoon. And there was a boy raccoon and a girl raccoon, and they made up a dance about that family. Hello? We're listening. Yes, we're listening. Have you ever had a checkup? Yes. This is John Hodgman. Hello? Yes. Hello? Hello.

Okay, Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes, we do. Do you pledge to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that there are those who are convinced his entire public persona is a prank? Yes, I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman.

You may be seated. Josh and or Michelle, for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of obscure culture that I was referencing when i was trying to engage you in a conversation yeah uh no your honor i didn't even know you were doing the cultural reference at the time i cannot that was a very confusing one i know you guys were so anxious to talk to me before we started recording and the moment i said hello nothing nothing you can't talk at all but were you were you confused sure we were that's what a prank is maybe maybe a little distressed perhaps a little yes yeah because i was prank calling you i was doing a prank on you i was referencing a famous series of prank calls where someone on the internet, and I could not find out who, to whom I could give credit for this, took sound bites from Mr.

Rogers and called various people and would play the sound bites and engage people in conversation with the recorded voice. And my favorite one, and the one that makes me and my wife laugh the most, is Mr. Rogers calling up various humans and going, have you ever had a checkup? I think we're going to have to find that immediately. Yeah, that's good. So you did not recognize that cultural reference. So neither of you gets an immediate summary judgment in your favor. Thus, may I turn to the plaintiff.

Michelle, you bring this case against your husband, Josh, because he is a terrible prankster. Tell me about that. Well, I will start off by saying he is a wonderful person. And a fiancé. Yes, he is not my husband yet. I will be the judge of that. Okay, okay. So Josh indeed has a very—

And then maybe he and I will get married. Perhaps. You could. It's legal in many places, but I would be sad. If I understand correctly, you are in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Is that right? We are indeed, yes. It is super legal there. It is. All right. Go on. I apologize. Quite all right. So Josh is a very fun loving person. He gets a kick out of sort of

getting people a little riled up, particularly me, because I'm fairly rileable, if that is a word. So he likes to mess with me a fair amount from the sort of more subtle sorts of antics, convincing me of things that are not true, removing items that I have taken out and intend to use. I turn around and they've disappeared. Give me an example. Be specific. What item would he remove that out and intend to use. I turn around and they've disappeared. Give me an example. Be specific. What item would you remove that you were about to use? I would perhaps take a spoon out in order to eat something,

and I turn around to grab a bowl. What kind of thing? A bowl of cereal, perhaps. Yeah. I want specific details. Okay. All right. So I will put the spoon down on the counter. Yes, perhaps. Yeah. I want specific details. Okay. All right. So I will put the spoon down on the counter.

Yes, I'm sorry. Hot or cold cereal? Probably maybe oatmeal. Fine. And then he'll grab the spoon? He will grab the spoon. He will place it somewhere else, or he will tuck it in his pocket, and I will turn back and it will have been removed. And I used to question whether I had misplaced the items, but I now no longer do that.

I know that they've been removed. Sure. You began to wonder if something had been going wrong with your brain and maybe you were going to die. Sure. And then everyone laughed and laughed. you were going to die. And then everyone laughed and laughed. At first you thought you were crazy.

Later you learned that you were engaged to a jerk. Pretty much, pretty much. Does he go around the house dimming all the lights all the time until you start to think you're going blind? Literally, well, quasi-literally gaslighting you? Not yet, but I think he's going to start to get some more ideas. He will turn off the lights occasionally when I'm in the shower. Sure. That happens.

That's not terrifying. It's a classic. So, you know, things of sort of that level don't tend to actually bother me. We do get a kick out of them, although the shower thing I don't love. Oh, so there's no conflict at all. Goodbye. bother me. We do get a kick out of them. Although the shower thing, I don't love. So there's no conflict at all. Goodbye. But there are certain types of pranks that I am not really happy with. That's why I brought the

case today. Josh has taken to, since the time that we have lived together, which was about six months ago that we moved in together, he began to hide around the house or, you know, anywhere where we're on vacation, he will find hiding places and then he will enjoy jumping out and scaring me from those hiding places. And yes, indeed. So occasionally I come home and I get a text. I look at my phone. What is the age of consent in your state? Is it even legal for you to marry a four-year-old? It might be that, Jesse, but it might also be that she's marrying a cat. That's also possible.

Or an actual ghost. That's true. I didn't even consider that. How do you respond to these charges? Are you a cat, a ghost, or a four-year-old? I am neither, Your Honor. I am but a man. What is your age, sir?

I am 35 years old. All right. And Michelle, you would like me to order Josh to stop jumping out of corners and scaring you? That is correct. And any level of prank above that? Yes, I've not yet seen levels above that, but it's certainly possible that... I object, Your Honor. I object to you, sir. I am talking to your wife. Shut up.

You can't jump out of a corner and scare me. Shut your pie hole. Thank you. Oh, I'm so excited that he said that. I knew it was going to happen. You want me to order him to stop performing that level of prank or that specific prank or all pranks? Yes, particularly. No, not all pranks. I don't want him to not be who he is. I know that is sort of endemic to his nature and he really enjoys it. not be who he is. I know that is a sort of endemic to his nature and he really enjoys it. And we do tend to get a laugh out of a lot of these sort of antics. Most of the time I'm, I'm quite

happy to tolerate them. But the jumping out and the scaring is, it has, it has, I've grown weary of it. So. How often, how often does it occur? Would you say? I feel like it used to happen more frequently that he would be, I'd come home, I'd get a text that says, find me. And I'd have to go searching around the house for him. Um, now I'd say maybe, maybe once a month or something like that. This is becoming very interesting. I feel like I'm getting a view into your lives together. It is very intimate indeed.

This is like a romper room version of an episode of The Twilight Zone. Yeah. Josh. It's not quite that interesting, I don't think. All right. I will hear Josh's objection. Josh, why are you trying to run your relationship like a weird scavenger hunt slash haunted house? Why, Your Honor?

Yeah. Well, as Michelle has previously stated, she is easily rileable, as she put it. And you're exploiting that weakness. A little bit. I mean, she is very, you know, pardon this expression, it usually has a negative connotation, but she is gullible, and she believes like what... Explain to me the non-negative connotation of gullible.

Okay, let me change that. How is that a compliment? Innocent or naive. Whichever one has the best connotation because we're not married yet. Childlike and dumb. Yes. No, no, no. But, Your Honor, you know, she believes, you know, things that I tell her and things that we talk about. What sort of things did you tell her that she believed that you found to be hilarious?

Oh, this is so good. This is so good. So we went on vacation. We went to Maine to this great beachfront hotel. I was telling her a story with Topher Grace. Oh, he was there too? He was not there. But I was using Pretty Woman, like the story of Pretty Woman,

and inserting Topher Grace in as the Julia Roberts character. And she listened to me up until the point, I believe, where Richard Gere and Topher Grace were going to get on a plane somewhere. She listened to me for a very long time. She's embarrassed right now. No, I object because this is untrue. What's untrue? Continue. The point of the story at which i began to laugh it was actually

quite a bit earlier okay um i might be you were you were saying to your bride-to-be on a painful beach in maine hey did you ever see that movie pretty woman here's the plot it's about richard gear saving tophor grace from a life of prostitution? I never said pretty woman, but I did use, like, Topher Grace is a prostitute and so on and so forth. Yes, Your Honor. And I want to see,

I always like to see how far I can take it with her. What must it be like? I almost can go all the way. All right. The big gag in this was you trying to convince her that there was a movie with richard gear and tofer grace where tofer grace was a prostitute that's correct you see jesse that's not even the thing that really impresses me

about this story the big impression i take away from it is that of an evening it would be normal for them to just sit down and synopsize a movie to one to the other. What must it be like to not have children? What fun you must have since you have all the time in the world. It's like living in a

fallout shelter. It's like Tangerberry Tales. After month four, just who remembers a movie that we haven't yet recounted? Jesse, let me ask you a question. You're a little bit younger than me, and I don't know what movie-going procedures was like when you were a youth, but were there still R-rated movies then? Yeah, sure. And were you allowed to go to R-rated movies?

No. I guess in some cases, yeah. An artful one. Yeah, an artful R-rated movie. I was allowed to go see 1984, the movie of 1984, because it was literary. I think my mom took me to see the Milagro Beanfield War. Sure, Ruben Blades, of course. She's a big Ruben Blades fan. Yeah, of course.

But was there a kid, like, was there one kid who was allowed to see all the R-rated movies and then would he come and hold court in the cafeteria and describe every plot beat of, like, John Carpenter's The Fog to you? The school I attended had no cafeteria, but other than that, everything checks out exactly. It would have been on the basketball court. The true storytellers. Yeah. The modern homers.

Sure. And then also Josh. Josh? Yes, Your Honor. I was told that you hacked into her computer somehow? I had her believing. This goes to the gullibility,

Your Honor. She had made a donation. To a cause. I believe it was for the ALS Challenge. She had made a donation for the ALS Challenge. And then you dumped a bucket of ice water on her head? And that was the prank? I did.

I dumped a bucket of ice over my own head. She actually made the donation first. Okay, so she made a donation to the ALS fund. Yeah. So she's in our den, in our office, and I'm out on the couch. For some reason, I receive an email thanking me for the donation. And all of Michelle's, you know, her name and, you know, part of her credit card information. And I called to her, you know, I thought this, I always try to

look for opportunity. And I called to her and I said, wow, that was a large donation you just made. She's like, excuse me? I'm like, that was a large donation you just made to the ALS Foundation. She's like, how do you know that I just made a donation? And she's very serious. Sure. And so I said to her, I don't want to say. And so she just inquires more. She actually sat down next to me, and's like seriously how do you know and i said

well i put some um software on your computer um so i you know i just want to make sure we're getting married i could trust you and so i put some software on your computer to just track your track what you do on the computer she's like like, we have to have a talk right now. Right. You told her that you were monitoring her every movement. That's correct. That's correct. So that you could trust her.

Exactly, Your Honor, exactly. So it got very serious, and she wanted to see. I said, I looked at it right here. She's like, tell me what you know. And I started reading the email that I received from my iPad and she tried to grab my iPad, uh, my tablet device away from me. And, uh, it's at that point that I finally, um, you know, admit it because that's the thing with all of these pranks um i always admit to and then we have a good laugh together you know i admitted that for some reason i think it was on you know one of her emails like

it just ended up sending to me and i told her i said i don't know what happened but it just sent me the email yeah yeah the actual explanation is not that interesting. It happens all the time. For a default. Yeah, okay. But the prank is interesting. Very. Because for a moment, you thought it would be hilarious to convince your wife that you were some kind of weird controlling monster. Yes, yes. And Michelle, or your wife-to-be, I should say. I apologize. Michelle, how did you feel?

Did you have a good laugh when he revealed it to you? Um, we had a laugh. I think, um, that one was not as good of a laugh, but I think, I mean, I had a hard time actually believing that he would do what he said he would. And I was very, I think he would agree. I was pretty disbelieving and that's why I wanted to see, I wanted to see the evidence of his, of his wrongdoing there. Right. You didn't, So you didn't believe him? Not fully. I did not fully believe him. But I was trying to come up with another explanation as to,

and I couldn't figure out what an alternate explanation would have been to make sense. Of course, the real explanation was not so outlandish. How long have you known him? About a year and a half. Oh, and you're engaged to be married already. We are. So it's very, you don't know him very well. It's very possible that he is a controlling monster and a psychopath.

That would be unfortunate. How did you meet? We met online. It's the 21st century. Are you in the same room currently? We are Have you ever actually met in person? We have, yes

Do you need help in any way? I do not need help I do not feel threatened or afraid Or intimidated in my relationship I see, alright Thank you for asking What do you do for a living there in Massachusetts? I am the program director of a nonprofit organization.

All right. I can be more detailed if you wish, but I don't have to be. I don't want to buzzmark my organization. That sounds lovely. And you're about the same age, I presume, 35 thereabouts? Yes. Correct. And Josh, I presume that you stay at home all day and make prank phone calls in your underwear? I do during the summer, Your Honor.

Mm-hmm. Oh, boy. Don't tell me that you're a student. I am a teacher, Your Honor. Oh, all right. What grade level do you teach? I teach high school. Mm-hmm.

And do you ever play pranks on your students? Yes, I do, Your Honor. What subject do you teach? History. And so you teach them a lot of fake history? No, we actually talk, we actually discuss lies that are taught throughout history. So today we discussed Pocahontas, the Disney version of Pocahontas. That didn't exist? I was pretty sure I saw it. That's not real?

Definitely seen the colors of the wind. Yeah, Topher Grace was in it and Richard Gere. No, Your Honor, in terms of the story that's told in the 1995 Disney movie, it's far from the truth. I see. And what sort of pranks do you play on them? Usually, it's around April Fool's Day. And they're actually pretty weak pranks. But usually, you know, giving out a test or quiz, having them take it, it being this ridiculously hard, and then telling them that, you know, I pranked them. And we all have a good laugh. You keep saying that, but I have no independent verification of that at all.

Can you provide a recording or? Yeah. Because when I asked Michelle, how did you feel when your husband to be claimed to have been cyber stalking your life did you have a good laugh at the end she was like um it wasn't the best we've had better we've had better yes what was the best michelle in fairness what was the best laugh that you had what was what is josh's best prank that made you actually happy and not just scared and confused oh happy your honor i would say, though. Josh, be quiet.

I'm sorry, Your Honor. I'm sorry. I asked Michelle. I guess you could still call this a bit of a prank. But the night that we got engaged, he surprised me with the engagement and then brought me back to the house where he had a surprise party waiting for me for my birthday. surprise party waiting for me for my birthday. And the house and the party were filled with people who were there intending to celebrate my birthday and did not know that we were going to be engaged. So they all were surprised.

So everybody was surprised, basically. Yeah, well, a surprise is different from a prank. Okay. The prank would be if Josh was using my podcast to tell you that the whole relationship is a lie. That would not be a good laugh. And we'd all have a good laugh. Just like at the end of the story of Pocahontas.

Exactly. Well, I mean, there have been a couple of instances where there was one instance where he, one of the hiding incidents, he did not actually try to hide. He was actually hiding behind. He, no, he, he wasn't actually trying. He just thought he would be funny by hiding behind a, uh, a bunch of, um, aprons that were hanging from a piece of a baker's rack in our kitchen. So he wasn't really actually hiding and yet somehow i still became startled when i saw him and that was actually hilarious because he was just crouched down behind a bunch of aprons so that was a pretty funny one is there anything in my own ridiculousness but yeah because

he wasn't playing a prank on you i suppose he wasn't except the universal prank of having more than one apron in a house. I mean, how many? I've never, I can't imagine. Why do you have a wall of aprons in your kitchen? We just have a bunch of them all hanging in one spot. We both enjoy to cook. Yeah, we both cook. So we've accumulated a few over the years, I guess, collectively. Can you give me an example?

Can you give me an example, I will ask one more time, Michelle, of one of Josh's true capital pra pranks where you were tricked or terrified that ended with you going, ah, that was great. Hmm. One example of the good laugh both you and Josh claim to have had. From 18 months of relationship and an engagement. I mean, I'm sure you've had good laughs together watching hilarious Topher Grace Richard Gere movies and stuff. Or Pocahontas. Right, or whatever. Disney's Pocahontas.

But Josh claims you both have a good laugh when he tricks you. And even you have said, I have a good laugh. So what's an example of one that you admire where you're like, that was really fun that you did that? I'll tell you a good one because I actually sent a piece of evidence regarding this one because it did not startle me. It was pretty hilarious, although I was mad at him because it was dangerous. We went on vacation a few months ago and rented a loft in the city we were in. Yes, I'm looking at the evidence now. It's a very nice loft.

It is in the city of Montreal. Do I understand that correctly? It is. It's a very nice loft. It is in the city of Montreal. Do I understand that correctly? It is. It is indeed. Très jolie. It was très jolie. And he, on the last night that we were there, had been scoping out this hiding place the whole time that we'd been there all week. He somehow shimmied himself up on top of a closet because this was a loft space with high ceilings. There was sort of a storage area above this closet. Oh, okay. So is this a sort of like crawl space that I see on the right-hand side? We'll put

this picture up on the website. But is this crawl space I see above these two doors on the right-hand side? Indeed. Indeed. That was it. It's like a storage space. All right. And I would say that's pretty high up. That's got to be about eight feet high, I would guess. It was. It was quite high up.

So you got up there, Josh? Yes, I did, Your Honor. How did you get down? This is where Michelle is going to continue her story, Your Honor. All right. He did not really foresee the complications with trying to get himself down from that closet. And he also did not realize that it was going to be a not very stable place for him to be up there. So he was kind of hanging on precariously when I discovered him. And when I discovered him, it was actually, I laughed a lot. really funny um but he uh he did not know how to get down so i had how did you end up discovering him did you hear him whimpering

i did not i had to look i had to look a couple other places i mean it's a lost space it doesn't have a lot of a lot of spaces to hide so i was a little bit uh you know i looked you know behind these curtains where he'd hidden previously in the week, earlier in the week. And then when I turned around, I saw him grinning up atop this closet space. So is it a situation where every time you come, first of all, it's hilarious, Josh, that you crawled up into a crawl space in order to surprise your wife and you got stuck there. I can see why we would all have a good laugh. I apologize, your fiancé. I can see why we would all have a good laugh at that,

because you tried to trick someone, but the trick turned around on you. That's comedy. Yes, it did, Your Honor. Not cruelty. Karma. Not cruelty. Karma. But essentially, is it the case, Michelle, that every time you come home, you have to look behind curtains and ferns and under couches?

Not every time. Movies where his manservant, was it Cato? What was the name of Inspector Clouseau's rather racist caricature of a butler? Cato was the Green Hornet's rather racist caricature. It was Cato. Yeah, Cato. Okay. Not exactly. It's not every time. All right. It's not every time. All right.

It varies with frequency, but there are plenty of times when I come home and it is silent, and the car is in the driveway, so I know he's in there, so I tread carefully. Whoa. Did you say silent or violent? Silent. Silent. Now, in the brief that was submitted to me, Josh. Yes, Your Honor. In your defense, you submitted that your practical jokes and surprises are all in good fun, and they have actually helped Michelle be a little more relaxed overall.

Tell me about that. That is correct, Your Honor. overall. Tell me about that. That is correct, Your Honor. So when Michelle and I first started dating, she would be a little, I'm trying to find what the word is, just a little guarded, a little jumpy. So for example, a loud noise. If we walk through a city and there's a siren, she'll jump. If we're home cooking and the smoke detector goes off, she jumps every time.

Now, Michelle is trained in the martial arts. Go on. She's a second degree black belt in ju martial arts. Go on. She's a second degree black belt in jiu-jitsu. She is a knee-down.

Why do you still have an intact windpipe? Well, see, this is part of the issue. The reason why this case was brought was there was one time she came home from jujitsu training and I hid behind our front door. We have a small bench and I was perched on the bench.

She opened the door wide, you know, called for me. I didn't answer. She shut the door behind her and I jumped out at her and she screamed really loudly. And this is your evidence that she's a little uptight? Hold on, Your Honor. Hold on. One time I scared her to death and she didn't like it. I was like, geez.

You're wound a little tight, fiancé. I'm only jumping out of a crawl space at you with a machete. What's the big deal? Let me help you to relax a little bit by doing this every day. Oh, guess what, honey? You'll like this. I got you a massage, and for myself, I got a spooky mask to wear when I jump out at you during the massage.

Are you suggesting, Josh, that your consistently jumping out and scaring Michelle is some sort of immersion therapy where she will eventually become so traumatized that a mental callous will build up and she will no longer commit the horrible sin and error of jumping at a police siren? You know what I think is going to happen? It's going to be like my dad who has post-traumatic stress disorder. And every time a grocery store truck goes by, Michelle's going to jump up and go. Does your dad have that reaction to all trucks or just grocery store trucks? That was the primary large-sized truck that would drive past our house. I don't wish to make light of your dad's PTSD.

That's exactly what we're making light of here. I just found that to be very curious. If there was something specific to old-time San Francisco grocery trucks that was specific. He was in a naval unit that was targeted specifically against grocery trucks. Anyway, sorry, you guys. We're just making fun of Jesse's dad's trauma. So, Your Honor, after that happened, um, she was, uh, this was one of the very few times, if not one of the only times she was upset after, um, one of my pranks or surprises. And, um,

she actually was upset with herself because she is trained in the martial arts. But yet every time she gets scared. And startled. And to be. You know to be a little serious. You know yeah. Partly like I am trying to. Relax her. And you know in a fun.

But also in a not. You know dangerous way. Because none of these pranks, you know, they've all been good-natured, and none have had long-lasting effects. So you see this as a kind of commando training? Yeah, wait. You seem to be making the claim

that you are at once helping her to relax while also sharpening her reflexes to be prepared for an attack at any time. You are literally describing that your life is being Kato from the Pink Panther movie. Yes. Without the racism. Yes. Michelle.

Yes. What do you make of this argument that Josh jumping out at you will help you relax? First of all, do you need to relax? I will admit, I will concede to the fact that I have loosened up quite a bit since we've been together. I think I do have some more fun. And again, for the most part, his antics, you know, I am like totally fine with and we do have a laugh um in this particular instance i think what i believe is that in the split second where he is jump out jumping out at me my brain recognizes that he's a safe person and that's why he hasn't gotten popped in the face yet or in other places um i don't

necessarily believe there is validity to the uh comm training, quote unquote, that he's proposing here. And I think that we could all still live a very fun, enjoyable, happy life without these incidences of him popping out to startle me. But we have good laughs. I hid in a hotel room. Yeah, we know. We know that you make that claim. If I hear the phrase good laughs one more time, I'm going to get out this taser on my belt and go to town. There's a little bit of the of the insistent repetition of that term that that presses a button for me of a bully saying to a bullied person. Can't you take a joke, nerd? You know, like, this is funny. Stop crying.

So don't say it again. I'm sorry, Your Honor. Before we wrap this up, Michelle, I just need to know, tell me a little bit about your martial arts training and how that helps you in the nonprofit world. And now that helps you in the nonprofit world. Well, it helps. I would say it helps me stay calm and to sort of redirect people who are perhaps, you know, unhappy. But but what specific what specifically how long have you been training in martial arts and what what what schools and styles and and and could you demonstrate some karate chops on Josh, for example? Of course, of course. No, actually, I don't like to injure him. But I've been training for about almost 11 years total in a style of jiu-jitsu called American jiu-jitsu. It's sort of based out of Japanese styles,

and it's very self-defense oriented. And what spurred you to do this? I, shortly out of college, just decided I was going to take a self-defense course because I thought it would be a smart thing to do. I'd always wanted to take one. And it turned out to be a jujitsu class, and I kind of fell in love with that. I've never had any aptitude for any other sort of sporting type event in my entire life. So this was the first time that I actually found something that sort of felt good and that I enjoyed and seemed to have any kind of aptitude for. So I continued with it. Do you continue to actively train? I do. And I continued with it. And do you continue to actively train? I do. And I teach as well.

What do you enjoy about it the most? Um, aside from the, the camaraderie among the students and the instructors, which is, you know, a huge part of it. Um, I like being able to, you know, in addition to training myself, I like to share that knowledge with other people, um them and to help them feel more confident in defending themselves. And it's super fun. Have you ever had occasion to use your training in a non-classroom or competition context? Not physically speaking. I've not been in an altercation, but I lived in

New York City for many years, and it did help me to bump into people a lot less frequently, as you learn how to dodge the crowds. I thought you were going to say bump into them a lot more effectively. No, no, no. It helps you slip through the crowds a lot more easily. So I didn't get bumped into as much. Would you be comfortable and willing to use your training if unforeseen circumstances were to come to pass? Like, I don't know. Like if a guy was hiding in the crawl space of an apartment you were renting, and he jumped out at you and yelled. I would absolutely, provided he weren't the person I plan to spend my life with. But yes, absolutely, I would.

And again, that person is lucky he has not gotten popped yet. Hopefully he won't. So final arguments, and very quickly, Michelle, having heard Josh's arguments about how scaring you is loosening you up and you all have good laughs, do you still feel that I should prohibit him from jumping out at you? I do, absolutely. I think that there are many other fun aspects to a relationship. Explain to Josh why. Explain to Josh why.

Explain to Josh why. Explain to Josh why. Well, I feel that there are lots of opportunities for you to sort of express that prankster-ish side of yourself, that you do it pretty frequently in all sorts of different contexts. And on the whole, I really am very happy with those types of activities or things. And they don't – maybe I'll roll my eyes at you, but I certainly don't get upset. This is the one instance that actually gets me kind of upset. And I think that we could probably still have a lot of fun and enjoy ourselves. And I can still continue to be a fun person, a fun, you know, person for you to live with without having to deal with the scaring aspect. And spoon-stealing and pretend computer hacking and other mind games are all still on the table, Michelle?

It's still okay? They are. My senses are sharpening around some of that stuff. I will continue to hone them over time. That stuff is all okay. Head games, that's marriage. You know, that's what that's about. All right, Josh. You're training early.

Yes, Your Honor. I've heard your defense of the jump out. You've heard what Michelle has to say. Any final arguments for why this behavior should be allowed to continue? this behavior should be allowed to continue? The only thing I can say, Your Honor, in my defense is Michelle is, and she started off her conversation with you today saying that she's very easily rileable. She's very easy to scare. Um, she's very easy to scare and it will be hard, uh, not to scare her in some ways.

That's all, that's all I was going to say. It would be not, not on my side, but quite possibly on hers where, you know, with some pranks or some things that I do that she won't jump or be startled. Right. So you're saying you can't help it if you're just jumping out of a hamper one day and she happens to be scared because that's just her nature. That is her nature as it is mine to be a prankster, Your Honor. I think I've heard everything I need to make my decision. I'm going to blend into the camouflage of this stack of ferns and aprons I have over here and go into the secret tunnel to my chambers. I'll be back in a moment to render my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Michelle, how are you feeling about your chances in this case?

Michelle, how are you feeling about your chances in this case? I'm feeling fairly confident, though I'm afraid that the judge with the hamper reference just gave Josh a new idea of some place to hide. But other than that, I'm feeling pretty good. I feel I represented myself honestly, and I think that I'm feeling pretty good. Josh, I'm sure you're confident going into this decision and that afterwards, no matter which way it goes, we'll have a good laugh. Do you do you think that you're going to prevail? Jesse, I'm going to have to be honest. One of the reasons why I love Michelle so much is because she is so even keeled, you know, and she thinks before she speaks or does anything.

I think she presented a very strong case. I don't feel very confident, I will have to admit. So we'll just have to see about what the judge says. Well, we'll find out what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Wait, wait, where's Josh? I don't see him here. Where? Josh? Could Josh come back in? Thanks for playing along that time, Josh. You may be seated. And so may you. It's all right. We're all having a good laugh over here. Let's leave that phrase aside for a moment, please.

The more often you say it, the more insidious it sounds. Michelle, you may also be seated. Josh, first of all, you are lucky to be alive. You don't know how right you are, Your Honor. honor. You have chosen to express your affection, which is obvious for your wife to be, by jumping out in front of a trained martial artist.

And Michelle, you should not feel bad that you have not yet punched Josh's chest in and pulled out his beating heart in self-defense.

It is not a reflection on your training. It is simply that you are so quick-witted and on gut level, you know that you love this man, even when he is your enemy, that you stop yourself from disemboweling him with your pinky and instead continue on your plans to marry him. And that is fine. However, I recently took a trip to Los Angeles with my family. And we went, at the risk of buzz marketing, to a little attraction called Universal Studios.

And it was the suggestion of one of my human children that we go through the House of Horrors. And Jesse, have you ever been through the house of horrors at Universal Studios? I haven't, Judge Hodgman. Well, let me tell you what it is. I thought that it was going to be incredible animatronic recreations of some of the great universal horror movie horror monsters. Your mummies, your Frankensteins, your werewolves. You know what I'm talking about.

Sure. What it was, was a cheap haunted house. A walk through the dark where people in horrible scare masks would jump out at you. And it was the worst feeling I have ever had in my life. I truly, truly, like, it looked good in there. And they did put a lot of money into creating, like,

Dr. Frankenstein's laboratory or whatever. But all of that was lost because you had a dude in makeup with an axe leaping in front of your face. And that feels terrible.

Every you guys do not have human children but one thing I do not want to do when I pay a significant amount of money for an attraction, for a ride, for fun, is to feel the horrible cell-level, DNA-level fight of my body trying to choose whether or not to defend itself or my children. I did not need to go through that existential dilemma. I did not need to feel the convulsion of intense fear that then led to the 15. Well, i don't think it was 15 minutes thank heavens but the several minutes more of intense dread as i walked through that thing and got jumped out at again and again and again i don't know it seemed to me so surprising that this otherwise very, very pleasant theme park experience should have as one of its main attractions

something as simplistically brutal and cruel as this. Now, some people, I'm sure, really love it, and they're going to write in that they're so mad at me because I gave this thing the Tower of Terror treatment. Remember how I was, on a previous podcast, I was dissing the Tower of Terror? Well, guess what, Jesse Thorne? I went on the Tower of Terror with Judge John Hodgman, editor Mark McConville, on this same trip. And you know what I did not feel?

What's that? Terror. I felt joy. Everything that everyone said about it was absolutely right. It is just a dumb carnival ride where you're dropped from a great height. I felt joy. Everything that everyone said about it was absolutely right. It is just a dumb carnival ride where you're dropped from a great height. But it was beautifully themed, as they say. And the lobby of this fake hotel looked fantastic.

The quality of the fake Rod Sterling was pretty good. We all had a good time. We all took a picture. We'll put it up on the line. You know what I mean? You know what I felt in the house of horrors? What's that? Horror.

And now I'm afraid of houses. You know, pranks can be things of beauty. I really loved the Jerky Boys. I got to tell you, Jesse, that was a big – when that was circulated on cassette tapes back in the 1860s when I was in college, that really made me think a lot about comedy because some of that was really, really funny. But all of it, of course, was predicated on deception and a lack of empathy and a lack of caring for another human being's life and confusion. The other human being who is involved in a prank will always go through a moment of confusion, disorientation, and small terror. And then when the prank is revealed, it may be that it is so artful and so wonderful that the resolution of that terror is extreme happiness, good laughs, as you hear them say, or maybe an impromptu engagement party, for example. But you can't practice this art form without causing at least confusion and

disorientation in your fellow person. That said, I think it is a good art form. I mean, I think it's a valid art form. The intrusion and sociopathy of a prank is not so much greater than the intrusion and sociopathy, for example, of stealing stories from your family and putting them into a short story and selling it to the New Yorker or whatever. But, of course, there are levels. And I think that that's what Michelle is saying here. You can play all kinds of mind games on her and make her think like she's losing her mind

or that you're some kind of weird cyber stalker. As I say, head games are all what marriage is all about. But prompting the threat response over and over and over again, I think, is ultimately debilitating to one's nerves. And so it is that I cannot agree with you that we have these good laughs.

And the only person who would say such a thing is one who had been terrorized into thinking it was true. The only person who would say such a thing is one who had been terrorized into thinking it was true. I hereby order you, Josh, to stop scaring your wife purposefully. Believe me. Are you guys going to have children, do you think? It's a personal question. We're planning on it. Yes, Your Honor, many. I insist that you answer it.

Yeah. You're going to have enough terror in your life. I insist that you answer it. Yeah. You're going to have enough terror in your life. Go ahead and lie on some incredibly aggressively painful beaches in Maine and tell yourselves, tell each other all kinds of fake synopses of ridiculous movies. That's a good way to entertain each other. But don't, do not crawl into crawl spaces and leap out at people, because at some point, you know, this is going to turn into someone getting punched,

someone getting hurt, someone getting really too scared than they should be, or a guy dressing up as Santa Claus and getting stuck in the chimney and burning up on Christmas Eve. That's a reference to Gremlins, you guys. I find in Michelle's favor, this is the sound of a gavel judge john hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom michelle how do you feel i feel good i feel that uh justice was on my side josh how do you feel? I feel good. I feel that justice was on my side. Josh, how about you? I think it's fair. I don't think whatever Michelle was asking for in this case was outrageous.

I think the judge made many good points when he had Michelle talk to me and tell me, you know, how she felt. I felt like, you know, that did it for me. And so. Plus, you already taught her a lesson, right? Okay. I think. Josh, have you ever heard the expression to punch up? I'm afraid not. uh i'm afraid not a comedy expression a term of art it means that when you make a joke or mock you want to make a joke or mock at someone who is more powerful or more deserving of mockery than you are do you think that was the case when you were jumping out in front of your wife? No, of my fiancee. Of course not. Of course not.

She is definitely not more deserving the mockery than I am. Michelle, Josh, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to be on Judge John Hodgman. Pleasure was ours, Jesse. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Thank you. And remember, you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Ooh. Oh, no!

I was just trying to relax in my apartment in Paris. Great news! Now you'll relax even better! Jesse, this goes out to all the listeners. I listened to all those Jerky Boys tapes, and on this one cassette tape that is now missing in my life, it's gone away, there was another prank call that I've never been able to find again. It involved a guy calling up an exterminator in a very thick Louisiana southern accent going, yeah, I want to know what we're going to do about the bugs.

We got all the bugs down here. We could turn this into a street fight. And when the woman just said, well, I need some more information, he would just get so mad. He goes, this is an experience. This isn't qualified. And I've wanted to hear this thing now for probably 20 years, and I have done every Google search possible to by writing me, hodgman, at maximumfund.org. I'll send you a free T-shirt. Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage T-shirt, how about?

In your size, no less. You know this one, Jesse? Do you know what I'm talking about? Does it mean something to you? I don't, but I will tell you this. If it's a cassette-only release, you've got a good shot because cassettes have apparently come back around. I say this based on the fact that I went to a new record store the other day.

Yeah. A relatively new record store. I've heard of it. Came to discover that it was a records and tapes store. It sold used LPs and used cassettes. What? The cassettes, which you would think would cost $2 or $1. Right.

Cost $10 or $14. No. Yes. And they were for people who are so past listening to LPs. But at least there was an argument for listening to LPs. Yeah. An audiophonic, or an audiophilic argument. I think the argument for listening to cassettes,

the only one I can think of is that there is no argument for listening to cassettes. Yeah. They also sold Walkman. Well, that's cool. Well, they were those yellow sports Walkman. Yeah, and if you have one of those, what are you going to put inside of it to listen to music? A ham sandwich? Probably not. You know how much a used Walkman costs?

$50. $85. I was off by $35. Yeah. If I got my math right. That's 70% if I got my math right. Well, I think we're getting our math right pretty good. What does the math say about who named this case? This week's case was named by Kate Lucky. And if you want to name a case

on the Judge John Hodgman podcast, you can like us on Facebook. Just go to Facebook.com, search for Judge John Hodgman, click like, and you know, we ask for submissions. You can also follow us on Twitter. Hodgman is at Hodgman. I'm at Jesse Thorne. And join our forum at forum.maximumfund.org. Folks, I'm sitting here in front of my friend Jesse Thorne, which is not something I get to do a whole heck of a lot. I happen to be in Los Angeles. I am on the American road. As of this recording, Thursday night, September 11th, I will be performing here in L.A. at the Largo Theater.

And then I will continue on the road to Austin and then in October to Philadelphia, Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago, Akron, Ohio, Pittsburgh, and then on to New England. It's a big old-fashioned tour where you can see me in person and more or less alive. And if you'd like to find out how you can get tickets, come to johnhodgman.com slash tour. Sounds like they're calling right now for tickets. And I'm going to be live here in Los Angeles on October 15th with Bullseye at the Masonic Lodge at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery, a spectacular venue. We're going to have live music and comedy, and I'm going to interview some major entertainment celebrities. It's going to be a real blast. But most importantly, it's going to be the big kickoff of Max Fun Week. Max Fun Week is going to be a week of celebrating all things Max Fun with, we're going to do Reddit AMAs. Everybody's doing Reddit AMAs. We're doing

crossover episodes of all our podcasts, and we're going to do all AMAs. Everybody's doing Reddit AMAs. We're doing crossover episodes of all our podcasts. And we're going to do all kinds of fun stuff throughout that week to spread the word about Maximum Fun and celebrate all the things that we do and do awesome stuff for you, our valued and beloved listeners. I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be a blast. So mark your calendars for October 15th and then circle that and then draw a line through the next week. And then you'll know that's MaxFunWeek. Anything that has a line through it. What color pen should I use?

I mean, I'm going to tell you to use a red pen. My only concern is that you might think it's some sort of correction or error. How about like a nice green Sharpie? Would that be all right? Do you have one? Yeah, I got all the colors. You got a rainbow pack of Sharpies? Yeah, yeah, totally.

Somebody went to Costco. Sorry to buzz Mark. A lot of brand names there, everybody. But let's face it, where are you going to get Sharpies? You got to get them. If you're going to get them, you're going to get them 12 at a time. Yeah, that's right. OK, Jennifer Marmer engineered this week's program.

Our producer is Julia Smith. Editor, Mark McConville. Yeah, gee whiz. Oh, you can talk about our show on Reddit if you want. It's reddit.com slash r slash Maximum Fun. Lots of people congregating there lately. You know, I mean, maybe Reddit's a little terrible as a company. Hard to say.

Hard to say. Hard to say. But there's already nice people there in the Maximum Fun thing. So you can go talk to them. It's a community that has a lot of members with a lot of different priorities. Let's put it that way. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge Don Hodgman podcast. Court is adjourned.