Judge John Hodgman - The Cluck Stops Here

Episode Date: July 25, 2012

Lauren foresees a Green-Acres type situation for her new suburban backyard, but her husband's vision differs.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the cluck stops here. Lauren brings the case against her husband, John. The couple just moved to the suburbs and Lauren envisions the perfect addition to their big new backyard. Chickens. She says she'll take care of them and that they both will benefit from the fresh eggs and the bug control. John worries that they'll become too much work. Is Lauren playing chicken? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. I am coming in to judge.

I am coming in to judge, judge, judge, judge you. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Swear, swear, swear, swear. Bum, bum, bum, bum. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum., swear, swear. Bum, bum, bum, bum. Go ahead, Jesse. Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that the only livestock he's ever kept is a harem of badgers? Even more so. I don't know if harem is the right group word for badgers.

Judge Hodgman, go ahead. Please stop singing. I apologize. Was that throwing off your timing? Was that throwing on your timing, Bill F. Jesse? Because that sounded better than ever. Of course, I'm speaking now to, say your names again, complainant. Lauren.

Lauren. I'm complaining. And defendant, you are? John. John. I like that name very much summary judgment for you no no no uh of course uh you know the the song that i was singing or paraphrasing when i came in was of course the chicken dance chicken dance of course now a summary judgment will go to the first person to tell me what was the original name of that song when it was written in Switzerland in the 50s, according to Wikipedia. The chicken dance's original name. Come on.

You guys had to see a chicken dance question coming. I don't know it. No. The duck dance. Oh, man. Yes. It was mistranslated. So all of those moves that you've been doing at your cousin's weddings all those years, imitating a chicken, have been wrong.

So, Lauren, you want to raise chickens on your property? Yes, I do. And where do you live again? We live in Bluebell, Pennsylvania. Bluebell, Pennsylvania. Chicken land. Yes. Is it a rural suburb or is it just pure rural? Is it a rural suburb? Is it a suburb? Is it a small city? Is it a protected, a domed city? city? Is it a protected, a domed city? Oh, it would be nice if it were a domed city, but no,

it's, I'd say it's just kind of a regular suburb. We're not super rural, but we do have a nice little backyard and I think it would be nice to have a couple of chickens on it. How close are your neighbors? Well, we're on a third of an acre, so I can see our neighbors and all of our backyards kind of meet in the back. And you have fenced in backyard? I'm just trying to picture what your property looks like so that I can plan my attack. It's fenced in the back. And if we were planning on getting chickens, we would definitely have to fence the whole thing in because I don't want them running about the neighborhood. Okay. And you have never raised chickens before? No. No, I have never fence the whole thing in because I don't want them running about the neighborhood. Okay. And you have never raised chickens before?

No. No, I have never raised chickens. I can tell because I'm going to tell you right now those chickens will not go running about the neighborhood. I don't know. They will stay close to home. They will stay close to home until they are killed by predators. But let's move aside. We'll put a pin in predators for a moment.

A lot of plosives in that pin. We'll put a pin in predators for for a moment. A lot of plosives in that pin. We'll put a pin in Predators for a moment and turn now to John. John, how long have you guys been married? Over three years. Okay. You make it sound like that's a long period of time,

but it's not. It sounded like a question to me. We've been together about 10 years. Oh, congratulations. I'm glad. I'm glad you're married. You do not have children.

I can, I gather. No, no. If you had children, you would not be considering at all. Adding another creature to your life, whose feces you have to handle.

So I feel like that's what my wife is doing. Do you, do you plan to have children? Well, no, but you need to talk about handling feces. Lauren works all day as a, as a zookeeper. And that's part of my concern. Oh, I see. You're trying to bring your work home with you, Lauren. Yeah, I guess so.

What's your specialty? I'm pretty good at not doing that. We only have one cat as a pet, but maybe I feel like our brood needs to grow. What zoo do you work at, are you allowed to say? Or is it a secret zoo? It's a very, very secret zoo. Is it one of the Pennsylvania secret zoos? Yes, there are a lot of them. I can't talk about it. No, I work at the Philadelphia Zoo. So pretty well known. So is Bluebell, so you commute to Philadelphia? So Bluebell is close enough to Philadelphia. All right, now I got it. Eastern Pennsylvania, we're talking about. Okay.

And what sort of animals do you take care of there? Oh, I'm really lucky. I have a position that I kind of cover for a lot of other people. So I get to work with a lot of different animals. So I'm on the mammal team. So anything that has fur, I get to work with. It's pretty cool. What are the teams? There's mammal team. There's reptiles, mammals, and birds.

And who throws the best parties? Mammal team, definitely. Sure. I have to say that. because of the horse tranquilizers uh okay so uh so you're working on a mammal team and you so so chickens are are not in your specialty no they're not mammals um i do have a lot of friends who are also in this career path and who have worked with birds and have used them regularly as helpful, you know, people to give me advice and stuff. So, I definitely have a lot of resources at my disposal to help me take care of chickens. Why do you want these chickens?

Because they're very cute, A, number one. They're very good, as Jesse mentioned in the beginning, that they are good for pest control. They eat a lot of bugs in your yard. They also eat a lot of weeds in your yard. And they earn their keep because they give you eggs. And I think, you know, any pet that can give you something for you taking care of it is a pretty good deal. And John, why don't you want these chickens? Well, first of all, I think it's a little strange to have chickens. Lauren is from the city, and I guess the suburbs feel like a wide open new horizon to her. But I grew up in the suburbs all my life, and I've never known anyone to keep chickens in their backyard.

And more importantly, with Lauren working all day, cleaning up feces all day, I'm a little worried that she might be taking on more than enough. She's doing that all day at work. And with her having a different weekend than I, it's a little bit I think it could be a problem where we only have a few hours together each night. And I'd hate to see her. You know, the chickens might be novel at first, but then they might be more than she wants to handle later. What do you mean you have a different weekend? you mean you have a different weekend? I have the normal weekend of Saturday and Sunday, but Lauren has Wednesday and Thursday off. And what do you do for a living, sir?

I'm a multimedia developer for a large investment company. Okay. And are you also on the mammal team of your multimedia company? I do work with lots of mammals, exclusively mammals. Okay. All right. So neither of you have any cloaca experience of any kind, as far as I can tell. Oh, no, I stay away from them. Yeah. Actually, you know, it is not uncommon, or I should say, it is increasingly more common for people to have chickens, even in suburban areas. Is that not right, Lauren? Yes, this is true. I don't want to make your case for you. So would you mind making your case for you?

Sure. Yeah, this is becoming something that's kind of popular. And I first heard about it on the radio. And that kind of got me intrigued. And I actually have done some research about it. So there are lots of companies that will sell you equipment that is made for backyards, you know, smaller sizes. I'm not looking to like run a chicken farm or anything and a lot of people will talk about how wonderful chickens are just to have is kind of like a pet. I guess you could say they are friendly. A lot of the different breeds are. So people do get enjoyment out of having them as well as the eggs and all that other kind of stuff. So yeah, it's something that is becoming more popular. And I know John won't mention this because of course he doesn't want to help my case, but we do have neighbors not so far

away that have geese on their property. So while we don't have chickens, there are other fowl that are hanging out in the neighborhood. And they have, and they, I presume they keep geese in order to chase away strangers and because they hate their neighbors? Yeah, they're, no, I've never been quite that close to their property. Let me tell you something right now, Lauren,

you never will be very close to their property. I normally try to keep this podcast family friendly. But so if you're listening with young people at this moment, I'm going to give you a warning that I'm going to say a bathroom word. OK, everyone ready? Geese are assholes. Right. We all agree on that. Great.

Now, chickens are cannibals and i'm not sure that that makes them better than geese they are they are lovable i mean chickens chickens actually can be very affectionate they do stay close to home root you know regularly um they uh they can be uh they like to be held. And they can almost be cute, in my experience. Because you know that I live an occasional semi-rural life of a country squire. A couple, several months out of the year when I go up to Internetless Hills, Massachusetts, where a number of people I know keep geese, including our across-the across the street neighbors. And they, excuse me, not geese, chickens. I'm not talking about

those assholes. I'm talking about chickens. And indeed, these are chickens specifically that my daughter raised when they were chicks. And then we gave them to our neighbors because we didn't want to be responsible for these smelly miniature dinosaurs anymore. So I must tell you where my biases lie, which is that they are really appealing and interesting animals. And their eggs taste fantastic when they come immediately out of their cloaca, or whatever the egg hole is called.

And I enjoy seeing these chickens wander around stupidly my neighbor's yard. But it is a lot of work. Are you aware of how much work it is to take care of these chickens? Yes. Maybe I'm, you know, the internet has fooled me a little because it keeps telling me that they're not that much work. I wouldn't say that they are no work at all. But, you know, all of these little coops that I'm looking at, you know, oh, they set them up so that it's very, very easy to clean. And I only want about two of them, two or three.

So hopefully that will cut down on the cleaning. And also, I'd like to free range them in the yard as much as possible, which would also help. Are you a gardener? Do you actually have a problem with bugs? Is this an issue for you? We have ants that come into the house that drive me crazy. So really, maybe I just want the chickens to get back at the ants. I'm not sure.

But that would be nice if they would kill some of them for me. And you sent in an image of one of these coops as evidence. Was this submitted by you, Lauren? Yes. Okay. And this is a picture of a coop that is commercially available. It looks like a little A-frame house from Dwell magazine, except for chickens.

And this is an enclosure that would be for two chickens? Yeah, they're usually made for maybe just two to three chickens, which is all I want. And then I wouldn't plan on keeping them inside of that enclosure all the time, which they're kind of made for that. I would like to let them out in the yard and let them run around and do their thing. And then you have some pictures of, what is this? This is a Rhode Island red.

Yes. Those were the chickens that were recommended to us that have the best personality and hardiness. Oh, okay. Right. So the least cannibal-like. Yes. Because, you know, chickens are famous for their orderly pecking. Yes.

They will destroy one another. Have you ever seen a chicken that is lower on the social order? No, I've never witnessed any mean chickens. Maybe I'm a little sheltered. Oh, no, they're terrible to one another. You understand this, don't you? They purposefully hurt one another and establish a pecking order. That is a real thing. And the one that is at the bottom of the pecking order is really sad and miserable and awful and makes your heart hurt because it has,

you know, it has wounds all over its body. Is that something you want to have in your life? No, my chickens will not be like that. I will shelter these chickens and make sure that they don't act like that towards one another. No, no, no, you don't understand. You don't understand. You don't have a choice. These are dumb, stupid creatures that live in a particular way. You cannot train them to be nice to one another. Yeah, sure I can.

I train all kinds of animals. I hope I can train some chickens. Unfortunately, you're used to dealing with mammals, ma'am. True. Mammals can be trained. You can teach a dolphin to speak English for your spy program. There are no spy chickens. I was going to tell you that I've done that, but that would be breaking my vow of secrecy to my secret zoo.

You've not taught any dolphins. You're not George C. Scott. My wife might have a short memory. We were just visiting another zoo recently in New Jersey, and I recall seeing a chicken that was pretty beat up. All his feathers looked like they'd been plucked out, and I think he might have been beat up by the other chickens. No, he did not point that out to me. I just liked his nice way of saying that I'm stupid. That was his nice way of saying it.

No one is saying that you're stupid, Lauren. Honestly, I have a completely open mind at this very moment. I don't know whether to refuse. I don't know whether to enjoin you to not get chickens ever in your life or to order you to get some chickens just to see how terribly this is going to go. No, there are many men. Look,

there are many, many people who do keep chickens and do love them. Right. And I'm, where did you hear about this? If you're at your local food co-op or the farmer's market, some, someone tried to talk you into getting a bunch of chickens.

No, I actually heard about it on NPR of all places. Of all places. Well, after all, Susan Orlean, our Maximum Fun colleague, right, Jesse? Yeah, sure. She keeps chickens like crazy. She loves them, right, Jesse? She wrote like a whole 12-page article in The New Yorker about it. Yeah.

But here's the thing. Are you going to write a 12-page article in The New Yorker about it. Yeah. But here's the thing. Are you going to write a 12-page article in the New Yorker? Is this like a joke chicken desire? Or are you going to buckle down and take care of these chickens? No, I don't do anything halfway.

It's what I do for my living, and I'm very proud of my work, and I would not treat these chickens any less than how I treat the animals that I take care of at the zoo every day. Let me ask you a pointed question. May I presume in your professional capacity as a zookeeper that you have had to euthanize animals in the past? I personally have not had to. Thankfully, the veterinarians, if that is something that needs to happen, will take care of that.

So I'm very lucky that I have not had to do that. So are you willing to murder a chicken when the time comes? Yeah, this question has been brought up to me. What happens when the chickens stop laying? Because for our listening audience, chickens, if you're getting chickens primarily for eggs, chickens have a laying period of their lives and then they slow down. They stop laying and then they're just eating feed and pooping everywhere. Maybe they're eating enough ants in order to justify continuing keeping them, or maybe they give you great comfort. But you don't see a lot of old chickens.

You don't see a lot of elderly chickens because usually that's around the time when you murder them for their meat. So is that something you would be willing to do, Lauren? That would be, I would have to, I have thought about it and I think that given enough time, I could convince myself to do it or else I would just have a chicken for, you know, a couple of chickens for seven years. I'm sure that if you went to your local food co-op or farmer's market, you would find someone who could probably take them away. Yeah. in braces and suspenders and, and a garter around his, around his, his shirt sleeve and a, and a green visor and, and kill the chicken in the old timey way for you. Hello,

I'm your judge, John Hodgman. The judge, John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you. Our members, of course, thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable,

accessible, rooted in real life situations and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman.

Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're Made In, Made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware

for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have

in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. We considered getting chickens at one point, even here in Brooklyn, where there are people who keep chickens. And we consulted a friend of ours who had chickens for a while in a rural area. And she wrote us a

very strongly worded letter. And I'm going to just read to you the text of this letter, because I think this speaks of experience that even I do not have. First sentence, they are really stupid. The pecking order is a real thing. I do not have. First sentence, they are really stupid. The pecking order is a real thing. They do not elicit from me the kind of warm, fuzzy response other farm animals do. They get weird and mysterious diseases. They die randomly. They take work.

I'm here, I'm going to warn children again. Cleaning out feces, also known as shit. Food, water. Winters are scary. On really cold, snowy win shit, food, water. Winters are scary. On really cold, snowy winters, we had to bring them inside in a cage where they pecked one of their own group to death. The cost-benefit ratio was off for me. Spent more on feed and hay than I would on eggs.

So there, you get ugly. Oh, that makes me sad. Well, you know, look, a lot of people keep them. A lot of people love them. A lot of people liking seeing things peck each other to death because it reminds them of what life is actually like. In that sense, they're probably the most valuable pet. But I just mean to suggest that it's not a non-commitment pet.

Like a cat, which doesn't care if you live or die. Oh, it's so true. John, do you have anything you want to add to this, John? Like, you seem to be sitting back like a fox in the hen house, so to speak. Sorry, being quiet has worked out pretty well for me so far. Sorry, being quiet has worked out pretty well for me so far. But I guess in my wife's defense, I wouldn't say that she sees this as a money-making enterprise for us in terms of getting eggs, spending any less on eggs than we do now. We don't consume that many eggs.

I just don't know that she's given all those thoughts in the concern of the amount of time it will take. She's worked with birds in the past, and she's told me just how filthy they are. And she works really hard all day at work. When she comes home, she's exhausted, and she just wants to rest and have a good meal. I'm just worried that what will happen after the novelty wears off. As long as she's willing to murder a chicken, then when the novelty wears off, you're going to have a delicious meal. So in a way, it kind of all works out.

I guess. She's got a lot of bird-keeping friends. In fact, I thought part of this, where it came on, she visited a friend that runs kind of a bird sanctuary out of their house, and she remarked to me just how filthy it was and how unhappily they lived amongst the filth. Was this person also featured on the television show Animal Hoarders by any chance? They probably should be. There's something of a bird guru of the area and they consult with

other local places, but it sounds, the environment might be work for them, but it sounds kind of hellish to me. He might be, be bringing that a little out of proportion. I just have one. I don't, I don't want chickens living in my house. I saw where the,

where the owl lived at your friend's house. And that was disgusting as much as it was the sweet owl, but. Oh, cause I was going to suggest that you guys keep owls instead. So I guess that's not okay. No, it's a bad idea. And Lauren, just one last question about the evidence that you submitted.

I see a Rhode Island red rooster and a Rhode Island red hen here. They're wearing clothing. What is going on here? I was just scanning the internet and I found this picture and I just thought that you, the judge and bailiff Jesse, might appreciate seeing a chicken and a rooster in a bow tie and a necklace. But I sent it as evidence just to mostly prove that these chickens are very tolerant and very friendly. If anyone was worried about them being mean and nasty, my own cat would not let me put a

bow tie on him. So just kind of proving what kind of good birds they are. Look, I appreciate your attempt to butter us up with funny photographs of animals wearing clothing. But may I point out that this Rhode Island red rooster is wearing a cut out paper bow bow tie. Cut-out paper bow ties and fake bow ties, if you think that's going to make Jesse Thorne happy, you're absolutely wrong. Right, Jesse? Right. Sorry, it was a little bit of a cop-out, I do admit.

He is a men's fashion specialist. This rooster is not even wearing a real bow tie. I'm a professional, man. You're going to try to get all hens, I presume, right? Yeah, no roosters. When I contacted our township, there's no ordinance that says I can't, but they were like, your neighbors will probably hate you. I don't want that. So, yeah, no rooster.

But you did contact your township to find out what the rules are in terms of keeping livestock on your property. Yes, I was not able to find it on the internet. So I actually emailed them directly. All right. And you know that it is impossible to I mean, you bought you know how you get chickens, right? Well, I have a friend of a family who said who was our chicken getter. She says she knows where to get them. So our hookup, I guess you would say. Oh, you have a chicken, you have a, you have a chick dealer. Yes. You have a local chick dealer.

That's and that's, and that's why rural Pennsylvania is plagued with so much violence because of the, because of the chick wars. Here's the last thing I'm going to say before I go into my chambers to enjoy some delicious fried chicken, which is you uh, you, it's hard when you're, when you get chickens, when you get chicks, um, you don't know for a long time whether or not you're actually only getting ants because they are almost impossible to, uh, to gender.

Did you know that? So you might get stuck with a rooster, whether you like it or not. And then guess what? Then comes the murdering. Yeah, that, well, if a rooster is waking me like it or not. And then guess what? Then comes the murdering. Yeah, well, if a rooster is waking me up at 430 in the morning, it'll be a lot easier to do the murdering. All right. I'm going to go in and enjoy some popcorn chicken right now and think this over. Jesse Thorne, why don't you talk to them some more?

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. I have to ask you a serious question, John. Do you think your wife is emotionally prepared for these chickens to murder each other? Because they totally murder each other. I read that in Susan Orlean's piece in The New Yorker. Well, she's seen similar carnage where she works, but it does hit her pretty hard. In the end, I think she could handle it but uh i don't know if i could lauren if there's only two or three chickens what happens when one of them dies of a crazy disease and the one of the other ones picks the

other one to death oh well that is the one that should have survived darwin's law wow she's pretty tough jesse you feel this way about all your pets i i only have one cat so he's he's the winner i think that's why i have only one so he can feel uh like he was supposed to survive are you going to defend these chickens from chicken eating creatures? Because geese are mean and chickens can't really defend themselves. With my bare hands, I will defend them. See, this is the kind of I'm sick of your bold lies, your bald face lying. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. I am prepared to make a ruling very swiftly.

And that ruling is, enjoy your chickens. It is not the purpose of this courtroom to prevent people from making crazy decisions. Especially if they are informed decisions. And especially when they are decisions that are being uh made responsibly now i uh i i said a lot of things to you that suggest that maybe i thought uh having chickens was crazy uh i don't but you should be prepared that this is real this is real disturbing uh life and death almost breaking bad style cruelty that goes on in the chicken world that you should be prepared for.

But at the same time, you work in a zoo. So as I think your husband alluded to, you've seen it all, correct? I think I have. And the thing that really got me the most, I was on the fence until you had mentioned that you had called your local township to find out what the regulations are with regard to roosters. And so that's when I was like, yeah, this is not just a person who's Googling pictures of chickens wearing bow ties and pearls.

This is a person who's Googling pictures of chickens wearing bow ties and pearls and also taking serious steps to make sure that she's undertaking this in a responsible way. I don't see any problem with having chickens in the third of an acre on which you live. I think that you will have a problem with your neighbors if you end up getting a rooster accidentally. And I think that you are going to be in for a long, well, here's what I'm going to say. I think you're going to be in for an experience that will be loud and smelly and feces covered and difficult and disturbing emotionally in a lot of ways. But ultimately, you want to know whether or not you want to keep chickens.

And there's only one way to find out, and that is to do it. And here's the thing. I was going to say, I feel like you might be in for a long ride, but you're not going to be in for a long ride because chickens don't live that long. They kill each other out of animal cruelty. They are, they are destroyed by many creatures out of,

and they, and they are unable to defend themselves because they're stupid and dumb. And, and then at the end of the day, sometimes you just have to murder them yourself for food or for fun. So the experience will be, we'll have, we'll have a life cycle that you will understand going into.

And best case scenario is that you both discover that you love having these animals around and they can be pretty lovable i gotta say they're surprising they're surprisingly um affectionate as i mentioned which might make it harder to murder them but at least will make them more pleasant to be around if you get a couple of if you get a couple of good eggs as it were right um but and the worst case scenario is that you have a year in which you watch chickens die by your hand or others. And then you have an empty chicken coop that you say never again. And you burn it for kindling or you use it to house rabbits, which might might be the next thing that you want to give a try to. Here is the ruling. OK, I'm ruling in your favor,

but I am going to put down some conditions. One condition is that you learn how to make incredible omelets for your husband, because you're going to have a lot of eggs. Do you eat eggs, sir, or are you a vegan? No, no. I love chicken. I love eggs. Scrambled is my preference. Okay. Scrambled. Absolutely. Do you have a double boiler, ma'am? No, but I can purchase one. Get a double boiler. Learn to make the slow scrambled eggs the Jacques Pepin way. You're going to have to prove to your husband that this is worth it uh at least uh at least every weekend uh with a with a delicious omelet or scrambled eggs right and then you're gonna have to murder a chicken

and learn how to make fried chicken then the other caveat is this in six months from this date uh i want you to call back and i want you to tell me how your chickens have died. Okay. Or if they're still living, how they're doing and how you guys feel about it. All right. Is there anything else you would like me to ask, sir, as an exception to my ruling in order to make this ruling more palatable to you, sir? I guess I was a little worried when we've been talking about this. I like to be lazy on my weekends.

Right. And I was worried how much work I would have to put into it. Zero work. This is entirely on Lauren. It's all on her. She was upset that I didn't want chickens. When I started the cave, she was upset that I didn't want to be involved in the chickens. No, no, no. Lauren, you understand what I'm saying.

Your husband has one responsibility with these chickens, which is to enjoy them as companion animals or as food, but to do nothing else. I'm ruling in your favor. You should get the chickens. But the caveats are, John doesn't have to deal with a crazy hobby animal

that he doesn't want. with a crazy hobby animal that he has nothing that he doesn't want to, uh, you, you learn to, uh, you, you, you make use of the eggs, uh, by, uh, getting a double boiler and making soft scrambled eggs, but also, uh, giving them away, uh, um, sharing them with friends, make sure that those eggs do not go to waste. Cause that's the real benefit of having chickens around, aside from their companionship, I suppose. And three, that you be prepared to murder them and cook them because getting animals like this means you're really getting into the muck of life and death that is usually hidden from people in this society and is usually what people are trying to get away from when they move to the suburbs. So you're going to get your hands, you will get your hands dirty, not by choice, but you're

going to have to really allow your hands to be dirty in this whole situation because these are dirty, filthy, crazy creatures that are kind of fun to have around too. Okay. I think I'm up for the challenge. I think I can do it. And then finally, the other thing is that in six months, you got to call me and tell me how all your chickens died. So this is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. John, I'm going to ask you first how you're feeling. I'm feeling at a loss. I think it's going to be a real challenge. I am reminded of the time early in my childhood. My dad would always insisted that there be no pets. And my mom brought home a dog one day and the family was never without a dog after that. So maybe I can

learn to love the chickens. How are you feeling, Lauren? I'm feeling really good. I was nervous that it was not going in my favor, but I'm glad that the judge thought I could handle it. And I think we're going to enjoy having these chickens. Well, Lauren, John, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks for having us. Thanks, guys. Bye. Goodbye.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but

to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. if you need a laugh and you're on the go i feel like those people are are entering a world of pain judge hodgman well it's i suppose it's better than watching goats peck themselves to death you know what? Judge Hodgman, you know that you're the only person who's genetically engineered beaks onto goats, right?

Soon, though, Jesse, I will be selling beaked goats to suburban homesteaders all over Brooklyn and the world. As soon as I get Susan Orling to write that piece that I wanted to write about keeping beaked goats, it's going to be a huge run on beaked goats. Would you say that these are artisanal beaked goats? Oh, of course I would. And I like to call them mini griffins.

But we only tape, the wings are not real. We just tape chicken wings that were abandoned by chickens after they were eaten by predators or pecked to death by their own kind. Or just after they molted. That's right, exactly. Here's something from Rob on the docket. After my best friend Rob saw the Star Wars prequels. Wow, Rob and Rob are best friends.

How appropriate. After my best friend... It was faded. After my best friend Rob saw the Star Wars prequels, he was so upset that he made a decision. The prequels, and indeed the whole Star Wars canon, do not exist.

As nerd friends, I think it should be illegal to not believe in Star Wars. Think of all the redditing I can't share with my best friend. He should have to acknowledge these films exist instead of saying they should make a movie about that. I am sorry, Rob, but your friend Rob is growing up and indeed is an expression of maturity to not feel obliged to enjoy, acknowledge, or even recognize the existence of something that makes him unhappy. And if the prequels make him unhappy in any way, I can't imagine why, but maybe they do.

And I think that it makes perfect sense for him to say, I do not want to care about this anymore, goodbye. No matter how much redditing you want to do. him to say, I do not want to care about this anymore. Goodbye. No matter how much Redditing you want to do. So I don't openly, I don't often encourage people to deny reality. And I certainly don't want your friend to have a psychotic break and start screaming over Reddit that these films are just an urban legend. I mean, he should acknowledge that they exist, but I don't think that he should have to have any truck with these prequels at all. And that is how nerds become men, frankly.

Sometimes you just acknowledge there's dumb stuff out there that falls within the canon of the thing that you love, and you just let it go. Here's something from Amelia. She writes, I live in Brooklyn and my sister Beth lives in Brookline, Massachusetts, about 15 miles from Here's something from Amelia. She writes, the lines of whatever you want to do or we'll figure it out when I get there, which leads to wasted time once she's here. I think that since Beth has a limited amount of time in New York, she should decide how to spend it. Beth says that since I'm more familiar with the city, I should pick activities I think she would like. Who makes plans for a weekend, the visiting tourist or the host? Well, I absolutely share your outrage how someone can come to Brookline, Massachusetts and not have a long list of the many exciting things there are to do.

I mean, Brookline, Massachusetts is arguably... No, no, Judge... Judge Hodgman. Judge Hodgman. What? They're going to Brooklyn, New York. That's the question. Oh, excuse me.

Oh, well then, yeah, there's nothing to do, basically. What would you do other than watch television? Let's just say, hypothetically, there were things to do in Brooklyn or the greater New York City area. Yes, I think that it is the host, indeed, show up with a laundry list of tourist attractions like Irving's Candy or the Coolidge Corner Theater. Or the Holiday Inn where my friends and I used to break in and swim illegally in the pool at 10 o'clock at night. Or the place where I grew up. Wait, are we talking about Brooklyn or Brookline? No, we're talking, again, you are talking about Brookline, but we're supposed to be talking about Brooklyn, New York City. Oh, why would anyone

go there? Brooklyn's a place to live, not visit. It's not a cultural capital like Brookline. Alright, anyway, look. One should not come to town with a laundry list of things that he or she wants to do or see and then insist that the host

do that. And indeed, I think it's impolite. And I think that it is part of the host's duty to say, here's what I think we might do this weekend. What do you think? And then the guest says, yes or no. But more likely, yes, because that's the polite thing to do. Come up, if you can, with a couple of things to do in Brooklyn, New York,

that express why you love that blighted wasteland and share your life with your guest who is coming to see you. It doesn't have to be sightseeing. It could just be a restaurant that you like to go to. Do they have restaurants in Brooklyn, Jesse? Geez, I mean, I imagine they got to eat something, but I don't know if they ever eat out. They probably just eat corn pone at home. Whatever the case, remember it is that your guest is coming to visit you because they like you, not the place that you live. And they want to spend time with you. So share your life, even if that means just going and getting a cup of corn pone from your local artisanal Brooklyn corn pone brewery. Hey, Judge Hodgman, I think that more Judge John Hodgman listeners should be listening to My Brother, My Brother and Me.

This is a theory I've been working on. Well, I've seen your research, Jesse, and I have to say it's mad. I've made some compelling line graphs, I like to think. Yeah, I've seen your chalkboard in your study, and it is covered with strange symbols. But your conclusion is inescapable. My Brother and Me is a fantastic podcast that more people who listen to this podcast should be listening to. Yeah, it's an advice show for the modern era. Three brothers from all over the country offering advice on all kinds of subjects. Sometimes it's good advice,

sometimes it's less good advice, but it's always amusing and entertaining. I think you should check in with the McElroys once a week. The McElroy brothers are a delight. They are. They're a joy. You can subscribe to their podcast in iTunes or go to our website

and click on My Brother, My Brother and Me. It's free every week. I think you'll enjoy it. That's why I recommend it to you, audience. If you have a dispute with a friend or loved one that you would like me to rule on, why don't you write to me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org or go to MaximumFun.org slash J-J-O. That is spelled J-J-H-O. Please know that I do review every one of your disputes. And if it is a dispute that will make sense on the podcast, I will write you back and Julia will call you and we'll set it up.

And if it's a dispute that makes sense for a dock of clearing or for the New York times magazine, we will set it up that way. And if it is dispute that does not make sense, then I will arrange for you to get help. I love hearing from you, even if I don't have a chance to respond to everybody. I do read them all personally, and it's quite a bit of fun. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate.

The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at Forum.MaximumFun.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.