Judge John Hodgman - The Cow Beef

Episode Date: July 20, 2011

Ted brings this case against his father Paul, who has become obsessed with cows.  Ted argues that his father's cow collection and his inclination to randomly say the word cow, among other issues, indicate the need to tamp down the cow-talk.  Paul argues that his obsession is merited, because "cows are our most important animal friends."

Welcome to the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the cow beef. Ted is our complainant. He writes, I have a huge problem. I've got a father who's obsessed with cows. My parents have accumulated about 30 stuffed cows. My dad will randomly say cow without prompting as if it were a verbal tick. I'm wondering if you can help me. Our respondent is Paul, Ted's father. Only one man can decide how to handle this bovine situation. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. I worship justice and I shall defend its worship

against the whole world. Justice is a poem on pity. Wow, that was really impressive, Judge. Yes. You will soon learn why. Go ahead and swear them in, Bailiff Jesse. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but

the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the only thing he worships is a golden calf? I will. I do. Cow? Very well. Judge Hodgman? Paul, are you the father in this case who's obsessed with cows? Yes. Cows are our most important animal friends. Before you launch into your cow diatribe, why didn't you say cow?

When asked if you would swear to tell the truth, you should have just gone cow. Oh, we'll have plenty of those in a minute. All right. Father Paul, you will have to trust that I'm going to give you ample opportunities to talk about cows love to talk about cows i can tell you're already getting started but i'm trying to tell you right now i need to talk to your son ted first he is the complainant ted yeah start your start your whining i i wouldn't so much call it whining i I would like to think of it as a spill out into uh when we're wandering around and when we're out and about he tends to do things like shout the word cow and then uh mention about

cows and point out cows uh is he warning is he warning you of a cow in the road like when you're playing hockey in the road and someone yells out car? No, no. He's like, cow, cow. That would be fine. I don't mind him yelling if there's a cow in the middle of the road and I'm driving in order to avoid it. No, he yells cow if there's a cow on the side of the road permanently contained inside of its fence and then wants me to notice the cow while I'm on the road. Or we're out in the middle of, say, for example. Permanently contained inside its fence. The grimest description of a cow's already very grim life that I've ever heard

in my life. Yeah, no, I understand. They're cows, you know, and, and I agree that, you know, it's interesting. Anytime I, anytime my father sees a cow being kept prisoner in a paddock by the road, you know, maybe you shouldn't give him ideas because we may end up stopping an awful lot to try and free the cows. How old are you, Ted? I am 38.

And do you live at home? No, I do not. Can you date exactly when it began? Did it start with something, a traumatic experience? exactly when it began? Did it start with something, a traumatic experience? I discussed this with my mom, and we've come to the conclusion that there was no traumatic experience, that the actual impetus was one year when my mom was doing an awful lot of traveling for her job. I got her a little beanie baby stuffed cow. I got her a little beanie baby stuffed cow to travel with so that she had something to remind her of home.

Where do you where do you live and do you live in cow country no no just something why would a cow remind her of home something about your story doesn't make sense uh so you gave your mom a beanie baby cow just a little baby cow just as a little as a little button uh a little bread and butter present a little a little token yeah you know because, because she's a nice mom. And your dad cow-napped it and went nuts over it. Oh, yeah, and he took it over, and I don't even remember which cow that is now, but that is one of a large number of cows that have been dropped on top of him over the years by not only various members of the family, but they've accumulated.

And I'll even admit I have given him a cow or two early on as kind of a, hey, isn't this fun? But we've gotten to the point where it's now past the point of obsession or past the point of funny to the point of almost wondering if there's not some sort of psychological issue. Well, hang on a second. Those are strong words. That is true.

And are you a psychologist? No, but's true. And and are you a psychologist? No, but I play. Are you a are you a psychiatrist? No, I'm not. OK, neither am I. So let's leave it to me to make those kinds of judgments. OK, completely fair. Now, what is your mom obsessed with? Ostriches or emus or what? None of those. I think she's obsessed with making sure that my dad is not going to go overboard with cows. And may I presume that they live together without anyone else? They're empty nesters? More or less, yeah. I mean, I show up on a pretty regular basis. Well, oh, you do? Well, sure. They're not too far from my house.

What part of the country do you live in, may I ask? Atlanta, both of us. Atlanta, okay. Do you have brothers or sisters? Yes, I do. Older brother. An older brother, and that's it? Yes, older brother, Victor. Hi, Vic.

Okay, let's keep the personal messages to a minimum, okay? Hi, Bruce Campbell. I just hope he listens. If Bruce Campbell is listening, that is awesome. I would, I would. Hi, Bruce Campbell. You know what? Save it for his podcast there, okay, Ted?

Okay, fine. So, but the point is neither you nor your brother live in the house anymore. No. Because this is what happens with empty nesters. They tend to, and I say this with great affection, they tend to go crazy. They tend to get little hobbies going that are occasionally embarrassing to their kids. This is not an unusual phenomenon. The cow thing is very specific, though. All right, Paul, may I call you Paul, sir?

Yes, by all means. Did you recognize the quote that I misquoted at the beginning of this? No, I did not. I said that justice is a poem of pity. I worship it as I shall defend its worship against the whole world. I was actually paraphrasing Gandhi, speaking specifically of cow worship and cow protection in Hinduism, saying the cow is a poem of pity. I worship it and shall defend its worship against the whole world. What do you make of that, sir? I think it's a fine sentiment.

I'm not surprised, but why? Why do you worship cows and defend cows against the whole world, even your mean son? Because cows are our most important animal friends. They give us dairy products, milk and eggs and cheese and butter, as well as tasty meat treats, steaks, and roast beef, and crumble cow. To be fair, they do not give us these things. We steal those things from them, sometimes by murdering them. That's true. That's a terrible way to end one's bovine life in the slaughterhouse. But we don't know precisely. Not a lot of cows live to die of old age in our society. Do you know what I mean? Like cows are killed in the prime of their life, you know, such as it is,

and we don't know what would happen if they were allowed to go on and live into the golden era. They might start collecting stuffed animals of humans. Yes, well, era, they might start collecting stuffed animals of humans. Yes, well, left to their own devices, cows would lead a zen-like existence, content to search for enlightenment, nirvana, and large fields of tender young grass. You know, we should emulate the cows in this busy world that we're in. We could learn a great deal from their calm acceptance of fate, such as it is. How do you react to your son's description of your interest in cows as an obsession and possibly psychological disorder? Well, upon occasion, it's necessary to say cow rather as a mantra, On occasion, it's necessary to say cow rather as a mantra, which indicates that I am going through a recentering moment when I've reached the end of one thought and moving on into another one. You realize, of course, that the universal om is simply move spelled backwards.

Now, at this point, I, who am extremely sympathetic to your cause, sir, not only because you are a father and clearly a thoughtful gentleman, and we all deserve and I believe that the cow is deserving of our respect. Even I, John Hodgman, a judge, an impartial person, is reaching for a giant butterfly net. How often do you say cow during the day in order to recenter yourself? It's not countable. Excuse me. Excuse me. I'll have order. Thank you.

This is your father's chance. I don't know. I suppose a half dozen times, maybe more. Oh, that's. Excuse me. I will have order. Oh, my wife says that I simply shout cow upon occasion when I'm looking for attention. Now, do you say cow? Do you intone cow? Do you chant cow or do you shout cow upon occasion when I'm looking for attention. Now, do you say cow?

Do you intone cow? Do you chant cow? Or do you shout cow? No, I just simply say cow. Cow? Cow. Oh, wait, wait, wait. I've got to object.

All right. I'll hear it. My objection is that that's an improper phrasing, and on top of it, it's also hearsay. So I would say that. What is your profession, Ted? Software developer. Okay. Leave the throwing around of improper legal terminology to me, please. Oh, I'm sorry.

That's fine. Habeas corpus to you, sir. Corpus delecti to you. All right. Amicus brief, go. What is your objection in plain English? In plain English, he actually does say it more than half a dozen times a day. What would be your guess of how many times he says it?

30 to 40. 30 to 40. Stop. Stop talking. Paul, that's a big discrepancy, which is true. I can't imagine that I say it that many times. That was me. That was me. Don't be blaming your father for that. I say it that many times. Cow. Cow. That was me. That was me. Don't be blaming your father for that. I like it. Okay, good. Okay, I might give him a little edge on that and say maybe 10 to 15 times a day.

Okay. Ted, stop laughing and making sad trombone sounds. You feel that your dad is saying this 30 to 40 times a day. Does 10 to 15 sound more reasonable? More, but not that reasonable. How much time are you spending with your father? Not that much. I'd say we talk on the phone about, you know, we talk on the phone pretty much every day for about half an hour or so.

Oh, that's great. And he'll usually say it about 10 or 12 times then. And I know my mom gets it for a number of times past that. In the middle, in the middle of a conversation. Yes. All right. Now let me, all right. You know what? Here's what's going to be useful to me. Let's take a moment to do a little bit of role playing. So I can get a sense of what's going on in Ted's mind. When you're having one of these phone calls, this phone call should not last about 30 minutes, but let's say for example, Paul, if you will indulge me,

you pretend to be your son, Ted, calling your father to ask for money or whatever it is he does. And Ted, you pretend to be your father, Paul, and you give us a sense of what it feels like to you to talk to Paul on the phone. All right. Are you ready? I'm going to make a telephone noise. I'm going to make a telephone noise until Ted initiates the conversation by picking up. So hang on. The real Ted, pretending to be Paul. Not yet. We're going to do three. Hi, Ted.

Now go. Hi, Ted. Now go. Hi, Ted. How are you? I'm fine. Well, I'm fine, too. I saw a cow today. You saw a cow? You must have been watching... Yes, I did. Where did you see a cow? You were in downtown Atlanta. I was watching television, and I saw a cow, and it was really neat,

and it had horns and hooves and all sorts of other things. Were you watching a movie like, say, Silverado? It was on an ad. Oh, okay. Was it the California Cows? It was the California Cows. Oh, did you vote for that? They are happy cows.

Happy cows give us the best dairy products. Did you vote for your favorite California cow? Are you sure you're playing me? Yeah, I don't think, Paul, I don't think you're playing your son. And Ted, you never said cow once, and by my reckoning, you should have already said it eight times if your math was correct. I actually said cow twice. It was a delightful conversation to overhear, I have to say, but it did neither of your arguments a particularly good amount of support. Ted, you didn't say cow as a recentering device or as an OM-like chant at all. And Paul, you just marched right in. You could not help yourself but start talking about cows again.

I have some concern this whole thing is just another buzz marketing effort for something called California cows. Yeah, what is Californiaows? What are you guys doing to me? Are you sneaking in a sponsorship for me? No. Here on Marriage Refleet? Not at all. We're preparing for Chick-fil-A's annual Cow Appreciation Day. Oh.

No, we're not. Hang on a second. Is this buzz marketing for Chick-fil-A? No. Not at all. You both swore an oath to me. You both said cow to an oath to me. Yes, I honest.

Okay, you can tell them about Cow Appreciation Day, Ted. No, I don't need to hear about Cow Appreciation Day. It's a marketing device for Chick-fil-A. I know that. Fair enough. Yeah, but I get a free Chick-fil-A and a big glass of milk to go with it. I will have order in my court! No more mentioning of Chick-fil-A and a big glass of milk to go with it. I will have order in my courts. No more mentioning of Chick-fil-A.

If I hear Chick-fil-A one more time, I'm shutting this down. You guys are in Atlanta too. Oh yeah. The good cow, cow, cow. I need to recenter now. Cow. Let's all recenter for a second. Cow.

Cow. Delicious chicken sandwich. Cow. Lovely. All right. You guys are in Atlanta, too. That's Chick-fil-A Central, isn't it? Yes, it is. Do you work for Chick-fil-A, sir?

Not at all. Neither do I. All right. Paul, what was your career or is your career? I apologize. What is your career? I'm trained as a chemist. I worked in the printing industry for many years, printing ink and coatings. And did you go on? Oh, I worked for most recently for a company that printed scratch off lottery tickets. Did you do some great injustice to cows that you now feel you must make some karmic restitution by being their champion in the world no no this is simply a realization that cows have been extremely important to the rise of civilization and of course to our country it is after all cows that

won the west go on well the cows that's not that's not a statement you just drop into conversation without having a follow-up or indeed giving me a look demanding a follow-up question. But, sir, I believe it was cowboys who won the West. Not at all. The cows simply took them along for protection and to fight off Indians and whatever else the cows needed for protection. Wild animals, perhaps, because some wild animals do indeed want to prey on cows. Sure. Man, for example. Yes.

But the cows moved westward to find greener pastures, if you will. One of the problems the cowboys had, of course, was that the cows might stampede. Cows love to swim, and after a hard day of marching across the prairie, if they smelled water, they would immediately want to run for it, shouting to each other, last one ends an old cow's tale. And in a way, they would go, and the cowboys would have to dissuade them from stampeding toward the nearest water. Are you saying that cows in the Old West could speak English?

Cows speak to us all the time. Oh, this is getting very heavy. Judge Hodgman, I have important news. Yes, go ahead. I've just received an email communique from Judge John Hodgman, producer Julia Smith. Yes. from Judge John Hodgman producer Julia Smith. Yes.

It features an attachment with a photograph of an elderly madman that I can only presume is Paul dressed in a cow suit with cow udders on his man junk. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. A pail of milk with cow gloves.

Order. Order. Ted? Yes, sir. You're the... Is that you cackling in the background? I can't help it. I'm sorry.

You're off. No, you will help it. You will help it. I will not have a son laughing at his father in my courtroom. That is not acceptable to me. Who sent this photograph? I did. Very good. Paul, is this to me. Who sent this photograph? I did. Very good.

Paul, is this you in this cow outfit? Yes, it is. Have you seen the picture? I am looking at it now. Okay. You see, I have my milk pail there. I do. Ready to dispense milk chocolate to the Halloween trick-or-treaters.

So this is a Halloween photograph. Well, no, actually it was made this weekend, but it was done specially for you for the occasion. Thank you. You have a lovely home. Thank you. This was a costume that you created to wear at Halloween. Well, actually I bought it at Walmart on sale, but that's all right. But was it to wear at Halloween or just around the house generally?

No, for Halloween in particular. Also for Cow Appreciation Day and other special events during the year. Sir, this is your last warning. If I hear Cow Appreciation Day again, I'm going to shut this down. Do you understand? That is a promotion for a corporation that is not giving me any money. If they want to give me some money, we can talk about that. What kind of sick cow wears tiny cows on his cow hand? I was simply holding the cows. The cow in my right hand is actually a hand puppet that Ted gave me. The cows are named Dexter and Gordon. After the great jazz sexophonist? Well, yes, but there's also a breed of cattle known as the Dexter. These are miniature cows, essentially from Ireland, and they can be kept as house pets. However, living in suburban Atlanta, we are rather restricted on the kinds of pets we can keep. is the reason why I didn't want Ted cackling in the background, because I need to hear every word.

And the reason I won't tolerate a son laughing at a father is I am myself a father, and therefore I am also feeling myself gradually as I get older going crazier and crazier, and going deeper and deeper into my own weird hobbies. And so honestly, when you just said to me that there's a breed of miniature cow called a Dexter that you can keep as a house pet. I want to hear more about that. Oh, well, the Dexter is a particular breed. There's a similar breed from Australia, which I believe are called the low-lying Angus cattle. Low-lying? Are they like the corgis of cows? Do they have little tiny legs? Yes, they have short legs and smaller bodies.

And they're bred especially for meat in particular, I think. I don't think you want to milk them. But you keep them in the house? Like, will they curl up on the hook rug? I don't know. They may come into your house and sleep at the foot of your bed. You know, in Hindu tradition, you would not move into a home until you had allowed a cow to walk through it. Unfortunately, I have stairs in my house, and the cows are not too good at stairs.

They're fine going up, but they have a terrible time going back down again. But maybe you get one of these little Dexter cows and you walk them through one time. It would be a grand thing to do, but I don't have access to a Dexter cow at the moment. So I simply named one of my favorite cows Dexter. Gotcha. One of your favorite stuffed cows? Yes. And of course, his sidekick is Gordon. Okay. Now I'm going to interrupt you and ask you some hard questions. Would you agree with your son that your particular fascination with cows really took off about 10 years ago with the gifting of this stuffed cow to his mother, your wife? Yes, that's Ralph the cow. Okay, Ralph.

And pre-Ralph, did you have any particular interest in cows before that? How do you describe the birth of this fascination in your heart? before that? How do you describe the birth of this fascination in your heart? Well, prior to Ralph, we had Cow Tilda, but Cow Tilda was simply a, actually a computer cow that sat on the computer and had been around the house for a while. But yes, I suppose the acquisition of Ralph was probably the beginning of interest in, you know, all things cow. Ted? Yes, sir. Does your father's love of cows interfere with his day-to-day life?

I think there's, I think here's the thing. I don't, I agree that it probably doesn't technically interfere with his day-to-day life. His day-to-day life, it starts to interfere when we leave the house and wander around. And I have to kind of, you know, inform him that shouting cow out in the middle of, say, for example, a mall or something along those lines, while is perfectly acceptable to me, may cause other people to ask questions and start asking whether or not they should call the local constabulary. Stand by, Ted.

Paul, do you shout cow in the middle of a mall? Not shout, perhaps, but occasionally I say cow. It depends on what we're looking at. And of course, if we are in a mall that has, say, a Build-A-Bear store, I certainly want to stop and check it out to make sure that they have the appropriate new cow models out for me to consider. Right. Well, that's just due diligence. I mean, no one can fault you with that. Let's use a common sense descriptor. Do you ever say cow loud enough that it would startle a cow or start a stampede?

No, no. Perhaps startle another shopper. You're talking about that walking meat that is the human cattle around you that you don't care about? Yes, precisely. I understand. I understand better than you know. Ted, what would you like to have happen in this case? I mean, you want me to essentially instruct your father to stop loving what he loves?

Oh, heck no. No, no, no, no. father to stop loving what he loves? Oh, heck no. No, no, no, no. I'm asking that when we're out and about that there's not be such a, basically that we don't have this problem where he will say cow in the middle of nowhere. And I have to kind of feel like I almost want to apologize for my dad, which is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to apologize for him. And he's got done nothing to really apologize for. But it's difficult to like go out and have a meal or something like that with dad from time to time, because it just it gets really embarrassing when I have to explain to them, no, no, it's OK. He's perfectly sane. He just shouts cow all the time.

I see. I think I know what my decision is going to be. I'm going to go into chambers and think it over and I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ted, how are you feeling right now about your chances? Oh, so doomed. It's not even funny. I think Judge John Hodgman, while probably doing his best, had some bias towards my father in that they are both fathers. while probably doing his best, had some bias towards my father in that they are both fathers. But I can't blame him one bit for that. Paul, could you just get a dog or something? Actually, in our house, we're restricted on the number of pets. My wife has said, well, we can't have anything living here that can't feed itself.

So that kind of limits the dogs or cats or birds or whatever, or children. I guess it's sort of not your fault then. Probably not, no. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Paul, I feel the need to ask you another question. You guys clearly have a lot of affection for one another. Would that be accurate? Oh, definitely. You have a good relationship. You one another. Would that be accurate? Oh, definitely.

You have a good relationship. You talk on the phone every half an hour. I mean, half an hour every day. Half an hour every day. Not quite that attached. Yes, Ted calls when he's heading home, talks to us while he's driving the car. So, yes, we tend to talk for 15, 20 minutes, perhaps half an hour most every day.

And would you say that perhaps your enjoyment of cows is augmented by the fact that it drives your son a little bit crazy? Well, possibly. As my wife has said, you know, this is something that I do to, upon occasion, gather attention. And yes, perhaps I tease a little bit. your hobby that is very charming. There is an element to your hobby that is almost disturbing in its passion. But the thing that tips the balance between those two things is that you are in part using it to drive your son crazy, which I applaud highly. Not because I dislike you, Ted. You seem fine, except for your laughing. The finest things a father can do to a son when they are both adults is to test his son's

affections with his hobbies. It happens all the time. And I have to say that if there is even some small part of this, sir, and I don't mean this to suggest in any way that you are insincere in your love of cows. It's very clearly true. And I support it, by the way, for the cow is a magnificent animal. And there are reasons that it is worshipped in Hindu culture, in India, in Hinduism particularly. As you say, it gives us life-sustaining milk. It is the almost literal backbone of agriculture. Without it, we would not have had tilling of the soil. And even if you are a vegetarian, as a Hindu is, you may take sustenance from the cow because not only does it give its milk, but its manure gives us fertilizer. And I have even read its manure is the perfect growing surface for hallucinogenic mushrooms, which are used in various religious rituals.

The cow is nothing but a giver. It never takes, and it is a placid in a way that, as Gandhi recognized, makes it a poem of pity. One can take pity on this creature, which is so good and yet is also so docile to the point that we routinely shoot it in the head with a bolt in order to eat its flesh. There is something extremely poignant about a cow that makes it deserving of respect and interest and fascination and affection. If you feel you need to dress up like one, that's your own personal thing. And maybe even from time to time in a lowing sort of way to just say cow out loud. And all of that is I respect. And if there is any amount of this, which is also one of the greatest deadpan jokes of all time at the expense of your own son. Well, then, by gosh, sir, I support you all the more. But I'm not putting that on you.

That may not be true, but I'm going to want to believe that that's true, just as every father ultimately, as he grows older, deceives himself into believing certain things that are comforting to him as his children get further and further away from him. Ted, listen, you have said it yourself. You want to walk through a mall with your dad, which, first of of all is great, because there are lots of kids who do not want to walk through malls with their dads ever again.

You want to walk through a mall with your dad without being embarrassed by him, without feeling the need to apologize for him, even though you know there is nothing to apologize for. In that statement that you made, or Gandhi, I can't remember which one, you basically summarized what it is to be the adult son of a living father. You feel embarrassed, you want to apologize, but you also know at the same quantum moment that there is nothing to apologize for. And that is a tension that you must resolve within yourself and not ask me, a perfect stranger, to resolve for you. I dare say you ought to say cow from time to time.

Whenever you feel so disoriented and so embarrassed and so tense about your father's obsession in that mall, just close your eyes and say cow. Or if you really want to get his goat, say goat, because they also give milk. They also give milk. They also give cheese. They also give meat. I'm sure their dung can grow in a hallucinogenic mushroom just as fine. Indeed, they may be the cow's greatest rival. You might be able to reverse this thing on him, and this could go on for the rest of your lives.

I'd like you to call back and let me know if that's what happens. But in the meantime, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. I'm not exiting, actually. I have one more thing to say. Sure. This is one where I'm going to actually impose a sentence. And that sentence is this. You are gainfully employed, Ted? Yes, I am. All right. Self-employed. All right. Every summer in Brattleboro, Vermont, there is something called the strolling of the heifers. This is Brattleboro's reaction or Brattleboro's response, rather, to the running of the bulls in Spain. And this annual event is when they walk an enormous number of cows down Main Street in

Brattleboro, Vermont, and everyone goes crazy for them. It is going to happen again in 2012 in the early parts of June. The website is strollingoftheheffers.com. Unfortunately, it's already passed. It was June 3rd, 4th, and 5th of this year. And Ted, I am instructing you to take your father to this event next year as penance for your embarrassment. Can I make an alternative suggestion?

No. Because your alternative suggestion is merely going to be, everyone should enjoy Chick-fil-A, Baba Booey, hang up. No, no, no. Actually, I was going to say, there's one around Atlanta, a similar sort of thing, but it's a cow festival somewhere around here. You guys, fight, fight, fight. I am giving you the gift of not being in Atlanta. That's enough. but it's a cow festival somewhere around here. You guys, fight, fight, fight.

I am giving you the gift of not being in Atlanta. That's enough. That's part of the deal. You get to see the wonderful community of Brattleboro, Vermont. Oh, I have no problem with seeing Brattleboro, Vermont. I'm sure it's a lovely city. Good. Then that's what you're going to do.

Don't worry. I'm not going to check up on you. But if you want to plug your local cow festival, go for it. Let's go. I don't know what it is. I've got to be honest. I just remember there is one around here. I'll let Paul decide. Where do you want to go, Paul? Brattleboro, Vermont, to see the strolling of the heifers? Well, they also have a similar occasion in Switzerland, where they also decorate the cows. They put little wreaths of flowers and leaves on the cows, and they walk them through the town. I think Switzerland would be even better. I'll pay for a mod.

Oh, cow. All right, Jesse, wrap it up. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come in again, but Jesse, you can go ahead and wrap it up now. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. My pleasure. My pleasure. Another contentious case, eh, Judge Hodgman? Cow. Oh, jeez.

Your children haven't left the house yet. You have no excuse I'm looking forward to this I've been looking forward to becoming an insane empty nest father since I was about 12 years old Do you want to clear the docket? Sure Do we have any animal-related queries?

Because I think that would make a lot of sense Yeah, we do We've got two Here's one from Eli Do we have any animal related queries? Because I think that would make a lot of sense. Yeah, we do. We've got two. All right. Here's one from Eli. He says, my fiance and I have a disagreement for the past year about the word flesh. Excuse me.

This is actually from Eli's fiance, Lydia. She says, fish does not have flesh. Eli often calls pieces of fish flesh. Wow. Lydia writes flesh as I know it is usually of the mammalian kind. It implies tissue from a number of animals, but as I understand it, Jewish and other cultures too, cuts of fish cooked or consumed raw by humans are classified as pesce or parv. In these and other places around the world, they are not classified as meat, and thus we shouldn't call what fish are composed of as flesh. What say you, Judge John Hodgman?

Well, I'll say it's gross. Don't call either flesh. I don't want a flesh steak of any kind. I don't want a flesh salad. I don't want a flesh sushi. I want fish or meat. But I agree with Lydia. I think there are probably some fish you could talk about flesh. But she makes a reasonable historic distinction between parv and meat. I think just do that.

And obviously her fiance is grossing her out and me too. So we should stop it. Here's a note from Phil. He writes, my cat insists that there is milk kept somewhere in my neck, but I'm certain I have no neck milk. Who's correct? Dude the cat or me? Cow. Why? Why are you just trying to gross me out? These are not animal related docket clearings. These are just gross. I'm sorry, Judge. Julia picks these.

Well, Julia, you do a terrific job. And the answer is, Phil, you have neck milk. Sorry to break it to you. You have tiny cat-sized nipples in the rolls of flesh underneath your chin, and they are lactating. And if you do not let your cat suck your neck milk, you're going to get very sick and infected. So get to it. Would you say that neck milk is one of the humors that need to be balanced? I would not say that because you just did and that was sufficient. Well, docket's clear, Judge Hodgman. Oh, cow. I'm going to go throw up now.

Goodbye. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support this show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Matt Gourley. His great podcast, by the way, is called Super Ego. You can find it in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, email us and be sure and include your telephone number. The email address is hodgman at maximumfund.org. If you have thoughts about the show, you can always comment on it on our message board, forum.maximumfund.org. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.