Judge John Hodgman - The Golden State Debate

Episode Date: August 8, 2012

Harry says his best friend Dan is spinning his wheels back in their hometown, and should come join him in Los Angeles. Should Dan venture to LA or stay put? Only one man can decide.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the Golden State debate. Harry brings the case against his best friend Dan. He and Dan grew up together in New York State, but Harry took off after college to try and make it in L.A. Harry thinks Dan should shake things up and join him. Their mutual friend Sammy says it makes more sense for Dan to stay put. Dan says he can see advantages to both. So who is right? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Dan, you got to go. Please, please. There's no time. Don't worry about us. We'll be all right. Get out of here. Can't you see we don't want you anymore? Why can't you go back to where you come from? Leave us alone. Go. Oh, Jesse, swear to him.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. Yep. Whatever. Yes. Yes. help you God or whatever? I do. Yep. Whatever. Yes. Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he left his hometown, then later returned to buy it all? I do. Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman? I'm prepared to make a summary judgment in favor of the person who can name the piece of culture that I was very poorly performing as I walked into the courtroom. Was that Free Willy? Nice, but no. I was going to defer to Harry on this question.

I'm sorry, what did you say? What did you say? You were going to defer to what? I was going to defer to Harry on this. To Harry? Just Harry or also Harry and the Hendersons? Uh-huh. Oh, damn. No, no. to Harry on this. To Harry? Just Harry? Or also Harry and the Hendersons? There it is. Aha!

Oh, damn. No, no. I wasn't trying to guess. No, I was just saying that. I see. Well, you would have guessed correctly, Dan. I see.

Curses. You see? You are someone who cannot make up his mind about where to live, I understand. That's correct. And your friends feel

that they know better than you in terms of whether or not you were to stay in your hometown of White Plains or potentially move to Los Angeles to live and make Harry's life less lonely. Is that correct? Absolutely.

They've started litigation against me. Excuse me, Harry, I'm talking to Dan now. Dan, I apologize. That's all right, I'm talking to Dan now. You got it. Dan, I apologize. That's all right, Judge. Harry is a pushy person, isn't he? Yes. I understand that. I can see.

Free willy indeed. This is an unusual case for the court of Judge John Hodgman. We have three. Essentially, it is a custody battle. We have two people vying for the custody of your friendship, Dan. And so I am going to sit you over in a sad little corner. Are you adjusting? Who's adjusting his microphone now?

That was Harry. It's Harry. What? Harry. I'm going to warn you one more time, sir. No more outbursts. No more futzing with your microphone. Do you understand?

You got it. Hands in the air. If you want custody of your friend, you're going to follow the rules of this court. Dan, will you please take your seat in the sad, tiny little chair over in the corner there, please, while we discuss your fate? Very good. So it comes to

Harry and Sammy. Two people who presumably have names that do not make them sound like members of the Rat Pack. What is your actual name, Harry? My actual name is Harry. Oh, it is. So that's your given name? Yes. It's my given name. It's not short for anything. All right. Very well. It's acceptable. Sammy? Thank you.

I'm Samantha, technically. All right. Technically, Samantha. very well. It's acceptable. Sammy? Thank you. I'm Samantha, technically. All right, technically Samantha. Very well. Samantha, you are representing the side of White Plains, New York, where the three of you grew up together. Is that correct? That is correct. exotic city that you moved to in order to put the dust of White Plains far behind you and make a new life for yourself as a microphone futzer and Free Willy fan. Is that correct? Absolutely correct. All right. You want Dan to join you? Why? I want Dan to join me because I think that his time in White Plains has come to an end. He's

done all that he's going to do there, and it's time for him to move on to the next phase of his life and do new exciting things in a new place. Okay, but don't you think that's Dan's decision to make? I don't, no. Why so? I've known Dan now for about 14 years. How old are you, sir? I'm 25.

Okay. Dan is a really smart, awesome, thoughtful person, but he can also be very wishy-washy and needs a little bit of help getting himself pushed in the right direction. What is he, what should he be doing that he is not doing now? Um, that, that part is up to Dan. He, um, he's done a lot of really interesting, creative things.

Uh, he does some writing and he's done some producing of short films our friends have made. And he, uh, put together with Sammy, uh, an awesome zine that combined the writings of a bunch of different friends of ours. And since, in a little while, he hasn't done any of them. I'm sorry, is this, when did he make this zine?

He made a series of them over the course of the last year or so with Sammy. I see. And did something happen? Did I fall down and hurt my head and wake up in 1993? Punk lives. Well, punk certainly lives, but zines don't. Do they?

Zines live. Zines live. They do live. Oh, okay. Okay, everyone, just relax. Passed from Grubby Hand to Grubby Hand. Jesse, Jesse! Shut your pie holes! Please set up the crossbows around my bench. I fear a courtroom mutiny. I apologize.

Look, I used to subscribe to Fact Sheet 5, okay, guys? I'm with you on the zines. Just didn't know this was still a thing that young people are doing. This is like, you like listening to cassette tapes, too? No, nobody listens to cassette tapes. That's not true actually yeah our friend just released her album on a cassette yeah there's like a cassette it's like a hipster thing it's like a because it's an obsolete product so people are into it so los

angeles seems like you're a little bit behind the times don't you know that white plains uh is down with the cassette tape movement don't you understand it is the cultural center of Westchester County? Sammy. It's the county seat. That's true. It is the county seat. You know what? I heard it from Sammy, okay, Free Willy?

We need you to back up on everything. All right. I know that you're the smart one who left town. That's right. Right? But we've established already that even you don't know about cassette tape culture. Okay. So I don't need to hear from Los Angeles about the county seat of Westchester County. Okay. You got it. It's time for the hometown to speak. I'm arguing

for White Plains, but I'm also arguing for New York, which is very close to white Plains where we spend a lot of our time. So New York clearly wins everything. Well, wait, wait a minute. Now you think you may think that you're, you're buttering me up because I live in New York city, but I don't,

I don't necessarily believe that New York is the right place for, for everyone. Lots of times I encourage people to go to Los Angeles. Well, I think New York is the right place for Dan. I mean, in terms of big cities for people to go to, to pursue the arts, you know, I think it really depends on people's sensibilities and what they're pursuing and what they're into. More to the point, and what they're pursuing and what they're into. More to the point, are you suggesting that Dan move to New York?

I think the eventual plan for Dan and myself was sort of to get jobs in New York City and eventually move out of our parents' houses and move to New York. I don't think the plan is to stay in White Plains that much longer. You also want to pile a huge stack of zines throughout White Plains and set them on fire and burn the whole thing down. Well, no. No, I didn't say that. Well, I'm sorry. I didn't want to reveal your plans. What am I trying to say?

Why New York is better than L.A.? No, no. Actually, I need you to make a different argument because how old are you? I'm 22. You're 22. Okay. And Dan, you're 25? 25.

Okay. And what is your relationship to Dan, Sammy? Best friend. Best friend. I have up to like four or five. Both of you two are official best friends Oh, thanks I just wanted to settle that before the judges did

This is turning into a punk rock zine culture rom-com In front of my very eyes Dream come true Sammy, so you are not dating Dan, is that correct? No, we are not dating. We're heterosexual best friends. Okay, well. So when my parents are listening and when Dan's parents are listening to this, we're still not dating.

Yes. Oh, but your respective parents agree with me that you guys are destined to get together. Yeah, so does everybody in the world, and it's frustrating. Yeah, true. You know, we're really just friends. We've talked about how we're really friends many times. We're really not interested in dating. Sure. Sure, no. Each other.

We're interested in dating other people. We are dating other people. This is literally the Gen Z reboot of When Harry Met Sally in the making going on right now. You two are planning to move to New York together, but you're just going to be friends.

And the next thing you know, 20 years later, you're dragging a Christmas tree down the street to the sound of, what's a band you like? Our favorite band is called Old Table. Oh, my gosh. Old Table? Yes. All right.

Now, listen, children. Stop laughing at your own in-jokes and explain to me. Is this really your actual band? Yeah, it's our friend's band. It's your friend's band? Oh, you're buzz marketing your friend's band. It's our favorite band. Yeah, they're also our favorite band.

And so the next thing you know, it'll be New Year's Eve 20 years from now, and you guys are going to be kissing to the sound of Old Table. Yes. Billy Crystal will make a cameo as one of your grandmothers hey gang jesse here we'll return to the courtroom in a moment but first credit where credit is due hello i'm your judge john hodgman the judge john hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites.

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Rules and restrictions apply. Guys, you've got this plan to move to New York, but the plan has not happened. Nope. Why not? Okay. We can't move until we have jobs, or at least, you know, some semblance of jobs. And Dan, for a while, was working as a paralegal in Westchester and then that stopped working out and we were both looking for jobs in the city and now I am gainfully employed in White Plains it's very excellent

it's very gainful I'm working at Planned Parenthood I'm like an adult congratulations congratulations thanks thanks guys but the point is it's very would you guys would you like would you like me to step out for a minute guys no I want to keep talking yeah okay the point is... Would you like me to step out for a minute, guys? No, I want to keep talking. Okay, the point is... It seems like you guys are having a little... Harry's in there being Bruno Kirby to your Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal. Sammy.

Yes. You are gainfully employed at Planned Parenthood in White Plains currently? In Hawthorne, yes. Like a few minutes from White Plains. Okay. And what is it that you would want to do in New York City? Well, my plans to move to New York are sort of on hold now that I got this job, but Dan has not gotten a job. Dan's been applying for a lot of jobs, mostly paralegal positions in New York and around New York. And nothing has materialized.

And he's not, like we sort of were saying, he's into the arts. He's not looking for any arts or writing jobs the way that Harry is in L.A. He's looking for like legal, boring business jobs. Well, I appreciate the fact that you're willing to speak for Dan and tell me what Dan's plans are in his life and what his dreams are. But I'm going to ask Dan that very question in a moment. But right now I'm going to ask you, are you going to work at Planned Parenthood for the rest of your life? Are you going to work there for 40 years and then get a gold watch at the end? I don't know.

I don't think so. I don't know. I'm a kid. I can't plan ahead like that. But I don't know. Well, first of all, I'll tell you right now that's not going to happen because Mitt Romney. Right. It's not going to happen. President Romney. Right. It's not going to happen.

President Romney is going to get rid of that parasitic organization. Yeah, first thing. No, second thing. He's going to get rid of that. Yeah. And second of all, you must have some dream beyond that unless that is your dream. So, Sammy, you and Dan, a couple of non-lovers moving to New York City. You've got to have a dream. What is the dream?

What is the dream, Sammy? Well, my dream? Yeah. Well, my dream, I don't know. This dream is pretty, this job is pretty close to a dream job, but it doesn't seem. What's the difference between a dream and a dream job? Well, my dream is to continue doing this type of activist work and, you know, forever. So why would you want to move to New York City?

Well, because New York is where it's at. New York is where my, I'm somebody that just said New York is where it's at. No, that's what kids are saying now. Me and Dan have been involved in a couple of feminist coalitions and other activist groups that are centered in New York City. So, you know, I plan on, even though I'm working in Westchester, I will be spending a lot of time in the city in the foreseeable future. And I think Dan plans on doing that as well. Dan, do you have free will or are you the homunculus plaything of your two

best friends slash lovers? I suppose something in between. the homunculus play thing of your two best friends slash lovers? I suppose something in between. That is a very self-abnegating thing to say. Do you have a dream of your own? Well, as Sammy said, I would like to work for a law firm that does, I don't know, does good work. I've tried to work at the ACLU and like Lambda, but having failed to get a job as Sammy has,

I have resorted to looking for regular depressing jobs in offices with cubicles. I was at three temp agencies in Midtown today and I am, I, so I'm not sure about free will as well because of that. So you also would like to be – work in activism in some way, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a dream, as you mentioned, working for a nonprofit or something that could assure me that I am doing something that is partially good. Okay.

You'll grow out of that eventually, but that's good to know right now. That's fine. But you do not – when you say you want to work at a law firm, you do not want to be an attorney? I don't want to go to school. I was a spectacularly poor student. I bought the headset that I'm using 10 minutes before this recording and that was the attitude that I had towards school assignments as well.

Consistently, if I did them at all. So I don't want to go back to school and be a lawyer. Okay, so you would not clarify yourself as a dedicated student? No. Dan, would you say that one of your career goals is to be one of the male characters on the show Girls?

I suppose so. I haven't watched it yet. I've been meaning to. Sammy and Harry both have been telling me to constantly. I finally started Mad Men again yesterday on their advice. And so what do you do with your time in White Plains these days? What do you do during the day and how much of the day do you spend on the porch smelling paste and smelling compressed air that you use to clean computers? Like what are you doing with your time? I've been lucky

enough this month that my unemployment has coincided with the European soccer tournament. Um, I also, um, I, uh, unfortunately my, I was writing when I was working and now that I'm not working, I'm not writing anything either, which is, um, so mainly I, uh, hang out with my friends. I think. Are you secretly, are you secretly, um, uh, sort of, uh, reverse psychology campaigning for the Mitt Romney presidency? Because you are kind of Mitt Romney's, like you are the villain in the Mitt Romney story. You're a young person collecting unemployment who vaguely aspires to work for a non-profit, who is in an uncategorizable, maybe love affair, polyamorous, weird cuddle puddle with a woman who wants to work for Planned Parenthood and a dude who's living in Los Angeles and you're spending your time watching European soccer. You're the worst. Wow. Do you want anything?

Do you want to move to LA? Do you want to move to New York? Are you aware of your surroundings now, sir? Do you know where you are? I'm on the floor. In a lot of ways. My chair was creaking so much. I'm sitting on the floor um my chair was creaking so much i'm sitting on the floor do you live do you live at home with your parents yes i do okay and sam i do that too yeah yeah

sammy you do as well i do all right let's give harry some time because he's been very quiet for a while harry yes what do you do out there in LA? I'm a writer. And what kind of writer? An aspiring television writer. And in the meantime, a blogger. Are you going to succeed? Fingers crossed. You got to LA, didn't you? Yes. And I worked very, very hard. And, and did you, did you take a lot of handouts from your mom and dad to get there? Yeah, they helped me a lot. Since coming out here, I've supported myself with jobs and occasionally collecting unemployment between jobs,

but I'm not going to pretend that my parents haven't helped me out tremendously. Yeah, that's fine. I'm not casting aspersions, but you're out there, you're working. What kind of jobs are you working? Usually I work as a production assistant on television shows. You're doing exactly the right thing so that's hard work uh it's work requires a lot of discipline you're learning a lot about a lot a lot about the business you are on a track aren't you i both hope so thank you you're not lying down on the floor i'm not sitting on any floors okay uh you're not excuse me dan you're not sitting on the floor. Okay. You're not, excuse me, Dan, you're not sitting on the floor.

I am at least a foot above the floor right now. You're up on your feet, you're making tracks. That's right. You're buying headsets weeks before you need them. Weeks, months. Yeah, exactly so. You may not even know what you need a headset for, but you got one, right? That's correct.

Okay. Now, Dan mentioned, and I'm asking you, Harry. Yes. Dan mentioned that he was'm asking you, Harry. Yes. Dan mentioned that he was doing some writing. What kind of writing does he do? He actually does really excellent writing. He writes some short stories and some essays, and I really, I cannot speak highly enough of his writing. And aside from putting his writing down on a typewriter and then using a mimeograph to make copies of it at the Kinko's

and then throwing it down a well, what else is he doing to get his work out there in the world? Well, he doesn't throw it down a well. What he did when he and Sammy were doing their zine book style was he would write essays and he would encourage his friends to write essays and he would, like you said, make copies of them and then he would hand them out at different punk shows that they would go to. And I'm not telling him that he needs to be, you know, Norman Mailer tomorrow, but the fact that he was writing and showing people his writing all the time was really awesome. And I really, really liked that. And why do you think he stopped? I think he stopped because he's feeling a little bit unmotivated lately. I, cause he's looking for

work and that's really depressing and I can completely relate to that. But I think that in particular living at home is something that's become too much of a, a safety pad for him. I think he, there's not enough going on. That's really scary to him. That makes him motivated to do more exciting things.

Hold on. Something here doesn't ring true to me. You're saying that Dan has seemed unmotivated lately? That's just crazy. So you think that he's living in the bosom of the socialist paradise of White Plains? I wish. The safety net of his parents and European-style soccer.

He's in the hammock of the safety net, and he's not getting out. I think that's right. He said that when he was working, he was writing more, and that's true. And I think that's because he hated his job so much, he was feeling more motivated to do things that excited him and challenged him. And I think that he needs to do something like that again. You're saying that if he moves to Los Angeles, I think that he needs to do something like that again.

You're saying that if he moves to Los Angeles, he's going to break out of this cycle of hatred of his job and complete apathy about his life? He may well hate his job out here too, but I do think that he'll break out of the cycle that he's in right now if he moves somewhere new. Dan, what kind of writing would you do if you were going to be doing it? Like Harry said, I guess I often start projects or I think about starting things. I certainly did do some zine writing in essay form when I was working. So more of that. There was some music writing, some history writing. Right. Specifically, essays about Old Table.

Some short stories. Yes. There were actually, Sammy and I each wrote a zine essay about Old Table. Okay. I'm glad you guys are getting your friend's band name into this podcast as much as possible. I wish you were as ambitious with your own careers

as you seem to be for their careers. I will check. Thank you. I will check them out. No, Sammy, you know what,

Harry? I don't like your tone, Harry, as usual. Sammy, Sammy's got a job in the, in a profession that she, that she is interested in and has a measure of,

of self-respect. And I'm guessing some presentable work clothes, right, Sammy? Yes. You had to go out and get some new blouses and such. Yeah. I'm totally professional attire these days. Dan is the one who's stuck. I wore a tie today.

Yeah. I see him a lot wearing a suit. He has a lot of interviews. He wears suits for those. Or sometimes he wears, like, jeans to those. That happens sometimes, too. That happened once. Yeah, don't try to pretty up this picture, Sammy.

I won't. Dan, your two best friends, Harry and Sammy. Harry wants you to move to L.A. because he thinks it's going to give you a boost. Sammy wants you to stay in White because he thinks it's going to give you a boost. Sammy wants you to stay in white planes, keep you near. And I don't think it's just because she wants to keep you down on the farm, but she's got other plans for you guys.

Moving to New York city, live in a crazy glamorous life of a paralegal and a planned parenthood employee. Just like in the thin man. But Dan, I think they both have a sense that something's not working in your life, right? Yes. Would you agree something's not

working in your life? Yes. So, what do you think it's going to take to make you happy? Moving to LA? Staying in White Plains? Moving to New York, finally admitting to Sammy that you love her running off with her to 1993 and making zines all day. What?

I think Harry said a minute ago, I don't want to hear about what Harry said. I want you to answer my question. Moving out of my parents' house would help to another place would help. Because I want you to, and here's the thing. I think that you're stuck, right? Because maybe you're not totally being honest with yourself. And I need to know honestly what's going to make you happy before I decide what your fate is going to be.

And I'll let you know that I have the soccer scores right here in front of me. Oh, no. I will reveal them to you. You would not do that. Did you hear me spoil season one of Game of Thrones a couple weeks ago? I will do it. I will take the heat from Twitter and the stairs on the subway. I'm talking about the people staring at me, not the stairs on the subway, not climbing up the stairs.

Take them two at a time. I will take the people staring at me ang the stairs on the subway, not climbing up the stairs. Two at a time. Yeah. I will take the people staring at me angrily on the subway for mysterious reasons. So I'm ready to go. So say it right out. Move out of your parents' house. I need to get a job so that I can dislike it and thus want to write again. Okay.

Is that going to happen in White Plains? It could. I am looking for jobs in New York one day. In New York City? In New York City. Yeah, I'm not looking for jobs in White Plains. I worked here for like a year. Well, for two years.

I worked here for a while over the last couple of years. And I think that I need to move from out of this town. I would agree. Okay. And if you move to New York City, Sammy, what are you going to do? It depends. It depends. I mean, there's talk of Dan and I moving to the Bronx and then I could sort of commute to Westchester and he could commute down. A lot of our friends live in the Bronx. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Is that something you could afford on that big Planned Parenthood salary? Oh,

I could. Yeah, definitely in the Bronx, parts of the Bronx, parts of the Bronx. No one's moving to Manhattan. Okay. Well,

that's for sure. No one in their twenties is allowed to move to Manhattan unless, unless they are the son of international royalty. Yeah. You know what I mean? Besides, you guys love cassette tapes and zines. You belong in Brooklyn. You don't even belong in Brooklyn. You belong in the new... You belong in the Brooklyn of Brooklyn, which is the Bronx.

Yeah, it's true. There you go. Right? I mean, there's a chance that that plan wouldn't happen and that Dan would get a job in New York and move to Brooklyn. He has a friend who lives in sunset park. You're very, you have rose tinted glasses on Sammy.

I'm not suggesting that Dan isn't capable of doing great things. If, if he weren't, I have, I would imagine you wouldn't be unwilling to admit that you're in love with him. Sammy. Yeah. You don't, you, you're not in love with him. Sammy? Yep.

You're not in love with Dan, right? I'm not in love with Dan. Are you in love with Harry? No. Harry? Yes. Are you in love with Dan? A little bit, honestly.

It's something I've dealt with my whole life. Yeah, we've talked about it. Is that for Trues? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And are you a person who is attracted to other men sexually and as life partners? Occasionally. Okay.

So you're also Mitt Romney's night terror. That's very generous. Thank you. So that's a whole other dimension to this. But you're comfortable just being pals with Dan? Are you in love with Harry? Do you want to be life partners with Harry? I love Harry.

Of course. We all love Harry, even when I'm being mean to him. I adore that little guy. I also love Sarah, his partner. Yeah, of six years. Yeah. Wait a minute, Harry. What are you doing to me here?

You know, it's 2012, man. Yeah, seriously. But you weren't joking around with me before. No, no, absolutely not. Remember, because you're under fake oath. I'm under fake oath, and I'm being sincere that I'm head over heels for my partner of six years, but since I've known Dan, I have off and on been very much in love with him in a romantic way.

So maybe, so maybe you're not Mitt Romney's night terror. Maybe you're, maybe, uh, maybe you're practicing, trying to practice polygamy in a whole new way. A new, more mundane way, I guess. Uh, you guys are so complicated, you you kids we want to reclaim polygamy yeah we want to we want to start yeah go ahead sam what is it it's called polyamory now that's true yeah we don't believe in marriage your honor yeah there's a sloth or a song about it right right it's a new it's a whole it's a whole whole new artisanal polygamy that we're working on.

In weird, undiscovered, reclaimed corners of the Bronx. Yes. Kids, I don't know if I can advise you. You guys are living on another planet. In a terrible economy that I don't understand. Making zines at a time when you should not be making zines. You were like creatures out of time. Unfrozen caveman standing before me in the shape of young Billy Crystal,

Bruno Kirby, and Meg Ryan. Can I see across time and give you some advice that is going to be meaningful? Can I choose the fate of Dan? I will continue my internal monologue in my chambers and i will come back with my decision please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom wow this is so complicated i don't even know where to begin but um dan i'm gonna start with you uh where do you think this thing is going to head? I'm not sure.

I think that the judge may be leaning towards the Bronx, but I don't know. Sam, how are you feeling? I feel pretty okay. I'm not sure I got to fully make my case, but I feel pretty confident. Harry, how about you? Well, I'm not optimistic about Dan's future in Los Angeles, but if Dan ends up doing something that makes him really happy, I'll be very happy. That's nice.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. I got nothing else, guys. This whole thing is such a web. Well, welcome back to Young People's Court, where there are no laws. It's basically barter town in here. I don't know. All procedure has been thrown out the window, and you're all standing there, weirdly the nude holding hands and asking me to decide the fate of this young man, Dan.

Here is what I want to say. There are some famous people who come from White Plains. One of them is Joseph Campbell. Do you know who Joseph Campbell is? I didn't know he came from white planes. The, the writer of the, um,

the man with the, with a thousand face, something like that. Hero with a thousand faces. That's right. That's right, Dan. And I'm,

I haven't read it. I've heard about it. I got to tell you, Harry, I'm a little disappointed that you did not jump all over that one. The one time you managed to keep your tongue. How can you, an aspiring television and media writer, not jump all over Joseph Campbell? The Hero with a Thousand Faces is the epitome of the screenplay structure cliche at this point.

It is, of course, the structure of Star Wars. And it is now believed to be the only way a movie can be told. And even if you don't agree with that, which I don't, it still outlines what Joseph Campbell wrote about in Hero with a Thousand Faces, the monomyth. The Ur story that all stories flow from still outline an incredibly powerful story structure that begins with what? Come on, Harry. You must have taken a screenplay seminar at one point. Yeah.

The main character needs to leave their comfortable environment. The call to adventure. Exactly. The call to adventure followed by receiving supernatural aid, followed by meeting with the goddess slash atonement with the father and then the return let's throw return out the window because you're not gonna you're never gonna go back to white plains except for maybe you know holidays to atone with your father or whatever and you aren't currently receiving supernatural

aid from me so so far so far, so good. Now it is time to start the story with the call to adventure. You acknowledge that there's nothing for you in White Plains anymore, correct? Yes. You've tried your hardest to stay there. You've looked for jobs there. White Plains doesn't want you. It is rejecting you in every way, isn't it?

Yeah. You've got to make a jump out of that house. You're 25 years old. You've got to get out of your parents' house. You've got to heed the call to adventure. You've got Harry out there luring you out with the adventure of Los Angeles, but I have not heard any interest whatsoever in the world of Los Angeles. You have none.

Is that correct? Well, I do. We have Harry's there and several other friends. I, I'm interested in Los Angeles as an abstract adventure call, I suppose. If you were to do any sort of writing, you are not interested in writing for film or television or are you? Um, I don't think so. Harry and I, I tried to do a little of that in the past, but I haven't, I don't think so. Harry and I, I tried to do a little of that in the past, but I haven't. I don't think so. I think that you got to move to the Bronx. The adventure is there. The adventure is waiting for you in the Bronx. As is the goddess, the meeting with the goddess, Sammy.

Oh, no. you are you are the goddess that he has to meet in the bronx to fulfill the hero's journey you got to fulfill your dream and get out of there and move to the bronx or anywhere in new york city because there's one thing that's true people think they might want to move to new york city they got to give it a try it's a miserable a miserable place to live in a lot of ways. And in many ways, it's like a terrible addiction because you get stuck here and then you can't afford to leave even if you wanted to. And for some people it's perfect place. And for some people it's not, but if you feel a desire to move there, you have to do it. Otherwise you're just

going to live your life, not ever having done it. And especially if you're just going to live your life not ever having done it. Especially if you're living in White Plains and you don't really desire to live in White Plains anymore, you can't keep living there without giving it a try. Now's the time, you're in your 20s, you've got to do it. You're two kids who are not in love, you've got to move to New York together and see what happens. That's the hero's journey, at least when Harry met Sally. If you had aspirations, Dan, to any kind of, of any kind, well, of any kind,

but, but to, to anything involving the, the, the cinematic arts or the televised arts, then I, then I would suggest that you move to Los Angeles because that's where it happens. Harry and his girlfriend, her name is not Sally though, right, Harry? Her name is Sarah and we prefer the term partner. Excuse me. That's okay. Harry and his other number live there as well as some other friends.

Soccer is watched there. It is sunny. It is nice. It is nice. It probably will improve your temperament. And it is, frankly, cheaper to live in than where you are. But I think you did not express any particular interest in working in those fields. And to be in Los Angeles, unless you are in comedy or music or in performance, or unless you have some other great job.

If you're not interested in working in the entertainment industry, you kind of end up being a person without a country. Whereas New York is a multivalent place with vectors into lots and lots of different industries, career paths, nonprofits, and everything else that I think is a better place for you to sit around on the floor in and think about where you're going to go next. But I know one floor is not appropriate for you, and that is the floor of your parents' house. And Sammy, you made this case to keep him on the East Coast, and you're the one

with a job. So you are the one that I am charging with getting him out of that house and down to an apartment in the Bronx, which you guys are going to share chastely. Because I think that would be amusing. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. So, Dan, I guess the question is for you. How do you feel about Judge John Hodgman's decision? I feel like it was a it was very judicial. I think that plenty of people are sentenced to the Bronx.

I think that plenty of people are sentenced to the Bronx. There are prisons there, I think. And I am honored to be among them. Do you think this is going to change your life? A mutual friend of ours, I was driving him around the Bronx at night once without a map. And Harry, you know this story. And, um, I told him that I had knowledge of the Bronx, um, and that I was able to drive him. And he said that knowledge of the Bronx was a tragic knowledge. And so, yes, so I think it's good. The fact that you, uh, told that story, uh, means you will never, will never live in Los Angeles.

That is some, that is totally, that is some, some deep zine grade hard ass poetry. I don't think, I don't think you would survive in a happy place. Sammy, how are you feeling? I feel pretty good I feel like now Dan maybe can move on to the next chapter in his life and the best reason for me and Dan not to ever date

is that now John Hodgman would be saying I told you so so that's good too Harry how are you feeling? I agree with Sammy I'm happy that Dan's going to be doing the next thing. And I hope that he comes to visit me more frequently than he has so far. Very well. Well, all three of you, thank you for joining us on Judge John Hodgman.

Judge Hodgman, I have to say that the main difference between experiencing that case and watching an episode of Girls is that that case didn't have any weirdly emotionally fraught sex scenes. I'm sorry, Jesse. I wasn't paying attention. I was just dipping these tampons into vodka in order to shove them into my every orifice so I could keep the party rolling all night long. Because I read that that's what kids do on the internet. Can we please just clear the docket? Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-H.

Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximum fun dot org if you need a laugh and you're on the go we're getting out of control here's something from tony i have a dispute with my work colleague and good friend chris who is obsessed with making puns and double entendres he can't seem to go for an hour without slipping one in, as it were. While recruiting recently, he wanted to hire one applicant simply because his name was you, as it would give Chris hours of amusement. I seek a ruling that Chris be limited to only playing on words during his personal time rather than at work. We're stuck in the lawless wastelands of Australia,

and we need some hard, bush-style justice. That's Bush of the Australian Bush, I think. Like the Outback. Yeah, exactly. Jesse, I understand that there is an allure to puns, but I wish people would resist it. You may know that for the jacket of my book, I required a ferret skeleton for a photo shoot of the Chateau Marmont, and I sent a message out over Twitter.

If anyone out there has access to a ferret skeleton, you can get it at the Chateau Marmont by June 3rd. Let me know. Not a joke. And even though I said not a joke, I got this reply. Are you sure you don't mean the Chateau Marmot? I got that pun almost a hundred times from a hundred different individuals all over the country simultaneously, like their brain had been infected with this terrible, terrible pun. It made me so mad. Marmot isn't anything like a ferret. They're not even from the same order. Jesse, you know a marmot's a rodent, rodentia, ferret carnivora. All that pun did was enrage me, and it did not get me any closer to my ferret skeleton, which I then had to order a buzz market from Skulls Unlimited in Oklahoma City, your one-stop shop for articulated ferret

skeletons and other skeletons that you might need. Puns are placeholders for jokes. They are not jokes. They show that you have a facility for language. I'll grant you that. But jokes are stories. They have a little bit of a beginning, a middle, and an end. A pun is just a dumb vocabulary puzzle. A pun is like boggle,

whereas a joke is a thing of beauty and elegance, like Scrabble. So please, take it easy with the puns. Double entendres, also non-jokes, because they can be funny in that they point towards taboo acts, and humor often proceeds from contemplation of the taboo. But because double entendres all point to the same small repertoire of taboo acts,

they essentially are relying on innuendo instead of actual joke-making. In other words, as long as it points to the same dumb act, it doesn't need to be particularly imaginative. Or that's what she said. I am happy to rule against your pun-happy, innuendo-happy co-worker and tell him to keep it to himself. And for a third, very important reason, that if he begins hiring people solely for the point of making fun of their name, because it will suit one of his dumb puns, then that is an addiction that has gone too far. And if the person that he hires for this reason is named Yu, why Yu, and is presumably an Asian person, he is going to seem like a racist and then be fired from his job. So please, Australians, ease up on the puns.

Jesse, do you have anything else you want to talk about here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast? I want to suggest that people listen to my informative interviews with folks in the arts and culture on my smash it public radio program, bullseye with Jesse Thorne, culture recommendations, in-depth interviews, uh, comedy, all kinds of fun stuff. You can find it in iTunes or online at maximum fun.org. One recent interview that a lot of people enjoyed was my interview with ice

tea about his movie, something from nothing, the art of rap. It turns out that the reason ice tea is famous is because he is the most charismatic person ever. Anyway, go to MaximumFun.org or subscribe on iTunes. Bullseye with me, Jesse Thorne. And hey, Jesse. Yeah.

Can I say something? Of course. Look, by the time this thing airs, it's going to be the dead of summer. Everyone's going to be really hot. You're going to be tired. And they're going to be looking for some good news. And I don't know if this is going to make anyone feel any better. But I just want to say that yesterday we finished recording the audiobook of That Is All.

A lot of people on Twitter have been asking me about it. Was it ever going to get done? And I accept your ironic slow clap, Jesse, because it was a lot of fun to make. I think it's going to be really good. And we're putting it all together now. And it's got some amazing guests, some old guests from last time, like Dick Cab and Rachel Maddow, some new guests, including, well, some surprises, let's just say. And it's going to come out soon.

And I appreciate your patience, everybody. And I'm really glad you kept the pressure on for me to do it. And I'm really glad that it came together the way it did. And I hope you will like it. It'll come out in October. And with the paperback of that is all. But I just wanted to let everyone know, because if you guys are using headsets, podcasts,

car stereos to listen to things, you might be listening to other things. You might be among the people who wondered, when was he ever going to get it done? Well, I got it done, and thank you for your patience. If you want to submit a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHo. Do it.

Convince someone at your office to do it. How about that? How about convince somebody traveling through town with a circus or carnival to do it? As long as someone goes to MaximumFun.org and submits a great case for Judge John Hodgman. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Goodbye. The John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com.

You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.