Judge John Hodgman - The Most Beautiful Man in Jurisprudence

Episode Date: May 2, 2018

Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn are in chambers this week so they can clear the docket! Friend (enemy?) of the court, Elliott Kalan, joins them as they discuss tracking spouses on mobile apps, passing gas, setting clocks ahead, bedtimes and using kitchen appliances in the bedroom.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket with me, as always, the most beautiful man in jurisprudence, Judge John Hodgman. Well, now, wait a minute. That Merrick Garland is quite a looker. That's true. He's still technically a judge.

They didn't take it away from him. Fair point. Also joining us this week to help clear the docket, a friend of mine and an enemy of John's. Fair. You know what, though? I've called him my enemy many times, so I guess it's a fair assumption.

Go ahead, Jesse. I'll allow it. The head writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and one of the triumvirate of hosts of the smash hit podcast, The Flophouse, Mr. Elliot Kalin. Thank you. Elliot Kalin. You know, Elliot, here's the thing. I know you don't listen to my podcast because it's not as popular as the Flophouse. I only listen to podcasts as popular or more popular than my podcast because that's how I learn and get better.

That's right. If you listen to my podcast, you might be taking a risk that you'd get worse. You'd learn some of the wrong lessons. But I know that you don't listen, so you don't hear me maligning you all the time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Out of the sheer bitterness that I harbor for the fact that you guys, the Flophouse podcast, is more popular than this one. And we put so much less work into it. That's the rub. That's the real part that stings.

So I will say that also, that is salt in the wound for sure. When you say that's the rub, you're talking about the Cajun spice rub that is mostly salt that you were rubbing in my wounds. But the truth is I love the Flophouse. I've guessed it on the Flophouse. I'm a fan of the Flopsies and all the Flopsies. I don't like to play favorite Flopsy, but you're much better than the other two guys. No, you're a friend, and I'm very glad that you're here. I love talking to my friends, and today I get to talk to two of my friends, Jesse Thorne

and Elliot Kalin. My favorite Flopsy is Cottontail. Mopsy is a close second. Mopsy Flopsy is Cottontail. Mopsy is a close second. Mopsy Flopsy. Well, she's got a goofy name for sure, but Cottontail is a better name for a rabbit. Right after Hambone. If we're done discussing whose podcast is more popular. I could talk about that for hours.

I don't know if I'm ever really done discussing it. But Jesse, this is for you, Jesse, because I know how much you love baseball, and I know how much our listeners enjoy you talking about the things that you love, baseball being one of them, so why not have a little conversation about my favorite sport inside baseball?

That was an extremely long walk to a very, very moderate sportsy punchline. You went all around the bases on that one. That was an intentional walk. It was a long and arduous road, Judge Hodgman. But we all made it, and we made it together. Here is something from Kristen.

My husband, Marty, won't accept my friend request on the mobile Find My Friend app. I respect his privacy, but there are times when it would be helpful to locate him. Marty travels for work and cannot always answer the phone when driving. If I could check the app, I could see how long before he arrives home. Another example is happening right now. Marty should have been home two hours ago. He is not answering my texts or phone calls. Is he dead? That's what probably what she wants a ruling on. Is he dead? Is he still out with his friends? Did he get in an accident? Who's to say?

I respectfully ask the judge to order that Marty accept my friend request. I agree to respect his boundaries and only use it when knowing his location would make our family life run smoother. I promise not to stalk him. Well, first of all, Kristen, let me just reassure you that Marty's alive and well, and currently at the Buffalo Wild Wings at the Hadley Mall in Hadley, Massachusetts, which is weird because that Buffalo Wild Wings closed about two years ago. So I don't know what he's doing in that shell of a Buffalo Wild Wings, but I know that he's there because he definitely accepted my find my friend request.

I don't know why he's avoiding you, but I got Marty lighting up my FMF all the time. Not true, obviously. Is it true that that Buffalo Wild Wings is not there anymore i think so i don't do you know the one i'm talking about oh yeah it hadley oh yeah well that's it just it made me wonder if he think he's having the classic ghost scenario of being at a buffalo wild wings having an amazing time and then coming back the next night to repeat that and finding nothing there but broken glass and one old man. And the old man's like, oh, that Buffalo Wild Wings closed years ago.

What? It's a classic ghost story. The Buffalo Wild Wings that wasn't there anymore. That is definitely a real Buffalo Wild Wings. I have been to the Buffalo Wild Wings in Hadley, Massachusetts. Large Marge sent me. No! Eyes popping.

What? I don't know whether it's open or closed, and I don't care. All I know is that Marty is going there, searching. He's drawn to that place, searching for the bachelorhood that he enjoyed there while eating wings and watching sports when his wife wasn't trying to put a chip in his neck and track him. That's not how I feel at all. But let me ask you this, since we have Elliot Kalin here and obviously my good bailiff, Jesse Thorne. Do you guys share your location with your spouses using phones? Elliot? I, well, I do, but in the way of if i'm going somewhere i'll let her know hey

i'm going to this place and if i'm coming home i'll be like hey i'm coming home now but we don't like track each other that way and to be honest my wife very rarely has her phone on her and if she does she often doesn't hear it ring or buzz or anything like that. So what usually happens is I'm looking for her and I'm calling her phone and can't get a hold of her. But we don't – I'm torn because on the one hand, it's very frustrating to not know where your spouse is when you need to coordinate. But the whole idea of the Find My Friend app is very strange to me. Yeah. friend app is very strange to me. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm an old fashioned guy who I don't even like the fact that I have to carry a telephone with me, even though it helps me in every way every day. Yeah, you're currently podcasting through one of those old time

candlestick telephones. Exactly. Yeah, it's very difficult to make the modifications, but I did it and that's what I want to do. I only like telephones where there's two pieces and one goes to your ear and one goes to your mouth. And they're connected by by a wire and you have to go through a switchboard and the switchboard woman's name is probably Ruby, you know, or Sadie, something like that. And she has to take a plug out of one hole and then stick it in another hole and then take another plug out of another hole and stick it in another hole to physically connect you and she can hear everything you're saying. And she's like commenting on it to the other telephone operators.

Like, oh, well, listen to this. She's such a gossip. Exactly. Oh, she's the mother hand of the town. But if you want to know where Marty is, you call her. That's the only way. What is her name again in your scenario? Sadie or Ruby or Eudora or Hortense or something like that. I don't think you should learn her name by now.

I mean, she's basically the center of town. Here's some listener engagement. If someone out there wants to do this, we'll post it, I guess, somewhere on the MaximumFun.org Judge John Hodgman page or on our Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Elliot Kalin describing the kind of phone he likes to use and overdub it to a loop of George Bailey from It's a Wonderful Life when he's talking to Sam in the hallway of, what's her name, the girlfriend at the time. Who is it? Come on, Flopsy. You know the name of George Bailey's wife. Donna Reed? Donna Reed, yeah, the actor. But what's the character? I don't remember the character's name. Let's her sadie or ruby or flopsy come on elliot calen we can't go it's

probably i want to say it's mary mary yeah that's right that's because he's talking on one of those candlestick phones so take elliot's voice and overdub that scene and then just put underneath it dramatic reenactment jesse thorn do you and theresa have the fmf activated on your phone i didn't even know that was something you could do on your phone and i would never do it in a million years right so it's possible that people don't know this but on apple branded phone products and I presume that there's an equivalent feature on other phone products that I will never name because I'm still here, Apple. I'm still ready to pitch for you. Just call me. But there's a thing. So there's the find my iPhone feature where it uses your phone's GPS to show its location on another device, say your computer

or what have you, if you can't find your phone. And there's a thing now where you can authorize, say your spouse, to have 100% of the time access to your GPS location. It's called find my friend. All of those words, except for maybe my, feel inaccurate in some way. It really is surveil my target. And you can see where I'm leaning in terms of my judgment. I don't know how the word friend is transformed by a feature which is essentially all about mistrusting the other person and not allowing them their freedom. I will say that I track my children's phones all the time because they're not adults. children's phones all the time because they're not adults. And while this is a point of contention with our older child and will eventually be a point of contention with our younger child when

he gets older, the reality is, you know, we live in a big city. I need to know where they are. I don't track them frequently. And when I do, it's merely just to make sure that they're okay. frequently. And when I do, it's merely just to make sure that they're okay. And also I own the phones and my wife and I pay the bills. So there. So really you're tracking your phone. You're keeping track of your property. I'm tracking some of my extra phones. That's what I'm really concerned about. It doesn't really matter to me which meat body is carrying them around. I just want to make sure they're coming back to me eventually. I would say that, Kristen, the difference between my behavior and your desired behavior is that I am treating my children like children and you are treating your husband like a child. That said, Marty has committed a crime.

And that is, you've got to respond to texts dude it is a responsibility of a spouse to keep the other spouse apprised voluntarily of their location and life death situation that's part of the deal and so if marty is routinely not responding to messages like a teenager, then this court censors him with the highest authority. And I'm going to say, Marty, you got to get better on this right away. And if you do not correct your behavior within three months, then I not only authorize, but order you to share your location with Kristen, because that's not cool to not respond. And let people know where you are in

the world, especially if that person is your wife. That's my ruling. Anyone disagree with me? We have a tribunal here. No, that sounds great to me. I mean, the other option would be to say that she should page him 911. I mean, the other option would be to say that she should page him 911. Right. And presumably they're married, 911 and 143. Yeah. Here's something from Mari.

My friend Todd and I have come to a disagreement about farts and the level of intimacy in a relationship. I think that farts are a symbol of a relationship's closeness. You can't reach the maximum amount of romantic closeness without being able to fart around the other person. Todd disagrees. He thinks farts have nothing to do with romantic intimacy. Please help us settle this dispute. We've been in disagreement for over a year. Can I just say what I think about this question?

Yes, I encourage you to. Can I just say what I think about this question? Yes, I encourage you to. Oh, you took the right out of my mouth, Jesse Thorne. Sorry. Elliot Kalin, question for you. Elliot Kalin, yes. Ready to answer.

When you make a fart sound, how do you do it? Usually through the butt. Hello! That was kind of a callback to that famous, what is it, the newlywed game or the dating game question? I guess it was the newlywed game question. It was the newlywed game. Where's the weirdest place you've ever had sex? Yeah. It made Whoopi, I think is what they said.

Yeah, this is a family-friendly podcast. Just like that was a family family friendly show about people saying embarrassing things about their new spouses but anyway uh i don't enjoy the act of making fart sounds with my mouth despite finding them hilarious so i prefer to let the professionals handle it so you stay out of the fake fart game altogether i mean i'll say like oh you know what actually you know that's not true i'll do the kind where it's like, like out of the side of my mouth. Yeah. It sounds like a real, real wet fart.

And my family just does not like that sound. No. It's a terrible sound. Yeah. People are writing us letters right now. I know. We might have to bleep it out. Yeah.

Dear Honorable Judge John Hodgman, as a sufferer of misophonia. I was just trying to do a classic raspberry. Yeah. Oh, no, no, that was good. Yeah, you might have been watching the Bronx Bombers, you know, lose another game. And that's the sound you make. Can you do the thing under your armpit deal, Elliot? Oh, yeah.

I've never been able to do that properly. I can do it kind of with my hands. Here, if I can get it to where it... Like that kind of thing. The hand fart that Weird Al used to use on his songs. Sounds like you're calling a small dog. Yeah, it's also the kind of fart you'd use to call a small dog. Because it's at a frequency only dogs and most people can hear.

And what do you do? Do you cup your palms together? We're not in the same place. Describe your motion. Well, I push my palms together as much as i can not a cupping so much as a pressing together as if like um like at the end of time cop when ron silver touches the other ron silver and they merge together it's like that with my palms and then i just and i just pull it apart all right let me just try it here put the palms as close as possible together yeah until they literally

there's they just they stick together of their own accord okay and I'm holding them up to the microphone and I just pull them apart yes let me see if I can do this quite a sound yeah close enough alright this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast Quite a sound. Yeah, close enough.

All right. This episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast has been made especially for you, 12-year-old listeners. Check out the new Mad Magazine. On stands now. On stands now, renumbered and relaunched by our friends and former At Midnight staffers, Allie Gertz and Dan Telfer and a whole bunch of other funny people. That's a freebie for you guys, Mad. The usual gang of idiots. Now, meanwhile, Mari and Todd are having this fart fight.

And I'm unclear. Do you get the impression, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, that Mari and Todd are in a romantic relationship? No, I think they're in a friendly relationship, but they like to participate in romantic relationships outside of their friendship. First of all, if that's the case, then Mari's opinion on the level of intimacy that is connoted by farting in front of your romantic partner is between Mari and her romantic partner. And that is none of Todd's business.

But I do agree with Todd. Farting in front of your beloved is an act of aggression. I can tell that Mari is a spirited person who likes to let it all hang out there and shatter social norms. And you know what? If she finds someone who enjoys that kind of thing, then she has found a match.

But in general, I would say, Mari, if the person you're around, whether it is your romantic partner or just your friend Todd, says, please don't fart in front of me. You have to honor that. That is part of the social contract. You need affirmative consent for farting. Disagree or agree to disagree, bailiff Jesse Thorne? I agree entirely. My wife and I have been romantically involved for about 20 years now. Yeah. And I have never voluntarily,

audibly farted in her presence, nor has she in mine, to my awareness. Speaking of which, Jesse Thorne, I don't remember where I saw it on social media, but you posted the most adorable photo of you and Teresa from when you were but children. Not children, children, but how old were you in that photo? We were 17. That picture was one that my childhood best friend, Peter, texted me

on the occasion of my 37th birthday. And it was a prom picture of my wife and I when we were in high school. Can we put that up on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram page? Yeah, sure. It is a truly adorable photo. If I could... No, not allowed. No, thank you. What? I have a thing I'd like to say on the merits of the case before us, just what it makes me think of, and also on the merits of that picture. It is a truly adorable picture, and Jesse has the smuggest smile on his face. Just like, oh yeah, I figured it out. I found the right one. You know, sucks for everybody else at the prom who's barely going to talk to their date ever again.

It was like, there was a, I looked at it, I was like, oh, that's really sweet. And then I turned into the 17-year-old me and was like, ugh, ugh. People who are happy, I hate it. You know what, Elliot Kaelin, I say fart noise to that conclusion, because I saw the same photo, and I saw nothing but delight in young bailiff's twinkly eyes. I saw no smugness. Don't project your smug onto his mug. Oh, I'm really becoming a dad, you guys.

Part noise to that. Can we get out of here with a break? Yeah, let's take a quick break. My wife just paged me 911143. We'll be back in just a second on Jordan, Jessica. No, Judge John Hodgman, how dare you? Leave it in. Don't edit it out. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel.

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We're clearing the docket with our friend, special guest, Elliot Kalin, who of course is one of the hosts of the wonderful and hilarious Flophouse podcast about terrible movies and disastrous movies and the occasional good bad movie or movie they secretly liked occasionally ones we enjoy and uh we got a lot of a bunch of live events coming up i'll tell you about those some other time probably i i'm interested to hear where you're going to be when you're performing live i see no reason to walk this back now let's go all this information is on uh flophousepodcast.com slash events we got

three shows coming up in the next uh two months we got in on may 26th we're going to be in washington dc our nation's capital we're going to talk about that most nation's capital of movies geostorm then june 7th brooklyn back to our old house the bell Bell House. And what better place than a Bell House to talk about the Dark Tower? That's right, architecture things. And then on June 30th, we're going to be in Seattle, Washington. That's right, the other Washington. We're going to be there, Seattle. And we're going to talk about that most Seattleist of movies, The Mummy, starring Tom Cruise.

It's Washington to Washington. It's our Washington to Washington. It's our Washington to Washington tour with a stop in the geographic middle of Brooklyn, New York. Ellie Kalin, before we move on to finish clearing the docket, I also want to point out you have a children's book coming out. Is that not so? That is true. I'd love to talk about that, too. I have a book coming out this fall called Horse Meets Dog. It's a children's picture book with art by the great kids artist Tim Miller,

who you may know from the Snapseed, the alligator books. And it's coming out from HarperCollins Kids slash Balzer and Bray. The imprint is called Balzer and Bray. And it's the story of a horse that meets a dog. And the horse assumes that the dog is a tiny horse. And the dog assumes the horse is a very large dog, and they argue about it. Which ones are they? And the blurbs on the cover feature one from our own Judge John Hodgman, outside of his robes, not in his office as a judge.

It's true. You guilted me into giving you a blurb for the book. But then, guess what? I read it, and I'm like, this is no chore at all. Because, first of all, it's a picture book. It took me three minutes to read. Second of all, it's a charming, funny picture book about the silly little prejudices we bring to new encounters and how it must get beyond them, especially when meeting horses. So it's a great, great book and it's a lot of fun. great, great book. And it's a lot of fun. And the art is really delightful. And the words for which Elliot Callen is particularly responsible for in so far as he wrote them are great.

Thank you very much. And I'm very excited about this. My first picture book and it comes out this fall just in time for holiday gift giving season. Well, that's great. Here's something from Thomas. My wife, Melissa, always sets all of our clocks ahead 10 minutes. She claims it helps her to be on time for things. It doesn't. The inconvenience is our twin 8-year-old daughters and me because we always have to do math in our minds whenever we check the time. I'd like to request an injunction to compel my wife to set all clocks to real time.

It is time for her to adjust to the real world and real time. Okay, before we address this case, I just have an instruction for super producer Jennifer Marmer. Jennifer, I know you can hear me. This is what I would ask you to do. Please call world famous director Ron Howard, who also did the narration for Arrested Development, and just have him record the lines. It doesn't. So that we can just drop him in there to maximize the hilarity of that of that turnaround there. She claims that it helps her to be on time for things. It doesn't.

So good. It doesn't. It doesn't help her. Or so claims Thomas. Ellie Kalin, what do you think about this case? Look, I'm the kind of person who likes their clock set a little bit ahead for that reason. But 10 minutes is too much minutes. Like there's, it seems like if it, especially if it's not having the effectiveness that's supposed to.

But if you set a clock like three minutes ahead, then you're close enough. And you don't have to do the math. And you're always a little bit ahead of things. Oh. But I can tell that you agree with me. Oh, my skin is crawling. Like, I'm not great at reading signals from other people. But I think you're on board with this.

signals from other people that I think you're on board with this. I spent like three hours doing smiling practice to gin myself up into pretending that I'm your friend and not your enemy. I just was all blown right there. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh, Elliot. No, I mean, all right, I'll reserve my opinion for a moment. But Jesse Thorne. Well, I understand Eliot's theory, and I actually kind of appreciate its elegance, which is that if you are only setting your clock ahead three minutes, it is not so much that you will bother to do the math in your head.

You will just treat it as though it is three minutes in the future. just treat it as though it is three minutes in the future. However, as a timely person, I would much rather trust my clock so that I can know when I should actually leave my house in order to go somewhere than do some weird trickery. I mean, my recommendation to this man's wife is to do what my wife does, which is not really care that much. Well, I think that that is sound advice. As I've grown older and come to appreciate that much of right on the minute promptness is a problem I have that the world does not care about. It is better to care a little bit less. Within a five to 10 minute window, you're fine. Beyond that, no good.

I would say beyond 15, rude. Five to 10, you're okay. Unless your boss insists on it. And then you got to do what your boss says. What's interesting about what you just said also though, Jesse Thorne, is that when you restated Elliot's thesis about setting the clock ahead three minutes, it made sense to me. When Elliot said it, I was like, that's disgusting because I was so wrapped up in the idea. Like I appreciate the logic behind setting a clock

ahead and to trick you. I mean, I understand what that theory is, but I would say in that case, 10 minutes is the perfect amount of time to set it ahead because that really does give you a reasonable cushion. Three minutes, why even bother? That was what I was feeling. That just feels like, first of all, it's a prime number. No, thank you. That's just ugh. Oh, prime, you mean another word for the best? It's inelegant. But if you set it ahead 10 minutes, the reality is that you will adjust it in your head. It's just introducing a new step. Now, because you said it, be quiet, Elliot. But now you said it, Jesse.

I understand that makes a lot of sense. And I apologize to you, Elliot, for shutting you down just then and also expressing revulsion at you as you described your theory. But it was a bit it was a bit extreme. But because here's the other thing is I think it dovetails with what you guys are saying, which is that the rest of the world doesn't usually really care that much about doing things on time. Even like when I was younger, I used to be like, got to get to the movies. I'm going to I'm going to miss it. The movies don't usually start on time. Like nothing starts exactly on time. So like, it's almost more like if you're anxious about not being late to things, just give yourself like a couple minutes to like, give you that little bit of cushion that you feel like you need because the rest of everything, the person you're meeting somewhere or doing something with is going to be a little late. Suddenly you've got more time to kill and you're going to get more frustrated at them than you should be because in your mind, they're even later than they actually are or something like that.

is the image of Elliot Kalin at his house in front of his, because he loves old-timey things, in front of his old-timey mantelpiece wind-up clock. I have to lift the glass bulb over it. Right. I was going to say opening the crystal face, but I like taking off the crystal. Oh, both.

Oh, sure. Right. And then just quietly saying to himself as he adjusts the hands, there we are. Three minutes precisely. And I must have some kind of like saying that I do that was drilled into me when I was a child. Sure.

It's like, three minutes, good and tidy or something like that. Oh, I don't like it, Elliot. Go to sleep, need a nightie. And I'm imagining you wearing a kind of rocade vest. In any case, Melissa, I think both Bailiff Jesse Thorne and Flopsy Elliot Kalin have offered good advice, which is punctuality can cause anxiety. And it is often anxiety that only you have to deal with. And learning to manage that anxiety and not worrying so much about being precisely on time will redound to your benefit in larger ways than simply being on time. to share a mutual objective reality, we need to embrace that. We can't all be living on our own time, right? We have to share some facts and the facts of the matter are, this is the time that it

is. So set your clock appropriately for the time that it is. And I would say, get up half an hour earlier. And I think you'll find yourself on top of everything you need to do during the day. I think you'll find yourself on top of everything you need to do during the day. I think that's very good advice, John. But I want to just cue you in on the dumb mental movements I had to do while you were saying that. I was like, that's a good point. What if things get so divided that we can't even agree on what time it is? And in some places, people are like, it's daytime.

And in some places, people are like, it's nighttime. And then I had to remind myself, oh, that is kind of how time works, though. Like it is different times at different places. And so in my head, I built up a problem that is actually just how the universe works. Yeah. The other idea, Melissa, is move several hundred miles west of your house. And then you'll always have at least an hour jump on things. your house. And then you'll always have at least an hour jump on things. Although I think most businesses in the United States run on EMT or Elliott Meantime.

Oh, yeah. They either run on EMT or Dunkin'. America runs on both Dunkin' and my personal time. Here's something from Joseph. I'd like to bring a case against my fiancee, Stephanie. Oftentimes, I will ship off to bed around 8.30 p.m. after spending time with her after work. Here's something from Joseph. need to get more rest. I'd like the judge to order Stephanie to allow me my sleep for the sake of my well-being throughout our future married years. If my body speaks, I should listen. That could also be said about that fart case. Elliot Kalin, what time do you go to bed? Okay, so this issue is one that strikes at my very core. Just answer the question, please, Mr. Kalen. All right, I intend to go to bed. I will allow your digression. Go on, please. Well, that's my wife and I, our sleep schedules are not exactly the same. Sometimes I will fall

asleep very early just out of sheer tiredness, and other times she will fall asleep very early and I won't be able to get to bed till later. We usually end up going to sleep at the same time in bed by like 1130, you know, which is later than we should. It used to be before we had kids. We wouldn't go to bed before midnight. Why bother? We were young. We didn't need sleep. Right. were young we didn't need sleep right but uh but now we kind of take turns falling asleep in front

of the television and then the other one has to get us up and and make us move to bed which is not easy but for a long time we had trouble trying to sync our sleeping schedules because we'd be watching tv and i'd fall asleep and she'd get frustrated or we'd be watching tv and she'd fall asleep and i'd find myself kind of like losing track of time and staying up too late because I didn't have somebody else to remind me that I should go to bed and get rest. And eventually we, not through doing any deliberate things, we just kind of, our schedules started merging closer together. Like in the movie Persona, when those two women kind of merge and exchange personalities just by being around each other. Or if you want to Americanize that reference, Three Women, which is a similar movie. And now we have those times where one of us will fall

asleep before the other one. And it kind of like, those are such relatively drastic differences from the regular mean that it doesn't bother us. It just kind of happens. And that's it. It doesn't bother us anymore. Great. We can edit all of that out. Jesse Thorne, what time do you go to bed? I mean, you probably should, but still. No, I'm sorry. It's just, those of you who have read my book, Vacationland, know that I had a bad habit when we both worked at the Daily Show of what I considered to be hilariously bullying and being mean to Elliot. Then I realized that's not nice at all. It's just being mean.

Just because it's meta-bullying doesn't make it not bullying. And I do apologize, Elliot. It's a hard habit to break. I saw a moment and I took it and I do apologize Elliot it's a hard habit to break but that was just I saw a moment and I took it and I apologize but honestly Elliot like what so what time you said you used to stay up to midnight before you had kids now

what are we talking about 10 10 30 I wish it was 10 30 now it's usually between 11 and 11 30 because there's just too much stuff to do too much stuff to do right to get done and all the things that I couldn't get done because we're busy either working or parenting but I really got started again here, Bailiff Jesse. So let's say 1130. How about 11 or 1130? Bailiff Jesse, what time do you usually go to sleep? Around 10. Or ship off to bed, as Joseph puts it.

I'm already done responding. Around 10. Thank you very much. as it puts it. I'm already done responding. Around 10. Thank you very much. Here's the thing. Bedtime routine does become complicated when you're in a relationship. And it's something that comes up again and again on Chet Chet and Hodgman. It took me a long time to appreciate that just because you are, let's say, married to and living with a person that you love very much and with whom you are happy to spend any amount of time, all of those things amount to a very prevalent fiction that your lives should be totally synced up and you forget you're different human beings that are on different biological tracks, that have different schedules, that fart at different times, that have to do stuff that the other person shouldn't know about. Farting, that's what I'm

talking about. And there should not be this pressure to sync your lives together, especially around sleep, which is the most solitary thing that your body does to repair itself. That said, you're going to sleep around 11, 30, 11, Elliot. Jesse, you're going to sleep around 10. I also go to sleep around between 10 and 11. I try to get into bed. We're all older than 35. We all have children. We have every right in the world to be exhausted. And we're still not going to bed at 830 PM. Joseph, it's too early. Now, maybe, Joseph, you have extenuating circumstances. Maybe you

start work at 4 a.m. Maybe you have another kind of job that is just utterly exhausting. And I don't even know what your age is. I mean, if you're over 50 years old, go for it. But what I glean from your petition to this court, Joseph, is that you and your fiance, Stephanie, are childless. That did not come up in your petition. I probably imagine that you are younger than 50 years old. And also you come home and spend time with her after work. So you're at least spending an hour, I would presume probably two hours.

So that means you're getting home at about 530, which to me suggests you have a reasonable work day. If it is the case that you're over 50 or you start work at 4 a.m. or you have some kind of incredibly strenuous job or high pressure job and you just are falling asleep at 8.30, okay. But if it's the case that you are a childless person in your 30s or early 40s or so, and you have a reasonable work schedule, live your life, my friend. You got to live it up, like watch more than half an hour of primetime television. Stay awake a little bit later. I do think just as a rule of thumb, I'm sure you've got all these reasons, just as a rule of thumb i'm sure you've got all these reasons but the rule of thumb i think 8 30 is you're wasting your life at that point well it makes me worry that uh that maybe there's some kind of like i want to know now how well he sleeps because it's possible that he's just not getting good sleep it's a medical problem that needs to be looked

like i've known a number of people who they'd be like oh i, I'm always tired. I got to go to bed so early. And it turned out that like they needed help with their actual sleeping. Right. Because it wasn't good enough for them. It is suspiciously early to be so exhausted. Unless like you're saying, this is an older person or someone who wakes up very early for their work

or like their job is like operating like a power loader all day, like an alien. Like an alien. Sure. It seems very strenuous. Well, it's high stress because not only do you have to operate that huge piece of machinery, but you also have to fight an alien queen with it every day. And they say that the coastal comedy elite isn't in touch with the working class. It is really sad.

I was like, what's a really strenuous job? And the first thing that comes into my mind is a science fiction job. I completely understand, Joseph. There may be every good reason in the world that you're exhausted by 8.30. And you're right. If your body speaks, you should listen. But I think you're sacrificing time with the person in your life. I would say seize the moment. And if you truly just like are going unconscious state 30 and there's no schedule or health issue that is apparent that is the cause of it, you know, take Elliot Kalin's advice and go to the doctor. Yeah, that's another way to listen to your body. Listen to your body. Let's take a quick break.

When we come back, more Docket to Clear and letters from listeners. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. On the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week, we're clearing the docket. We've got with us Elliot Kalin from the Flophouse, and we've got a note from Sean. My wife is a registered nurse and sometimes picks up shifts that begin at 7 a.m. On these mornings, I wake up early enough to get the kids up and ready for

school. I usually wait until work to have my coffee, but if I have coffee when I wake up, I'll have the energy kick to get me through the crazy morning. So I would like to invest in single cup coffee machines to place on our nightstands. We could start the coffee machine and have coffee at the ready as soon as we wake up. Think of the cupboard space we could save if we kept our mugs in a nightstand drawer. My wife worries the machines won't get cleaned. She says it's mixing the kitchen and bedroom too much, and next we'll have a fridge and pantry up there.

I think otherwise. Oh, do you, Sean? Do you stand by your ridiculous new scheme? How unlike every other husband who has ever written into this program. When it comes to mixing bedroom and kitchen, I think we'd better ask a rabbi. Here's the thing. Sean played a little dirty pool here because when he first proposed a nightstand single cup coffee maker, nay, two of them, I was appalled because not only is that incredibly wasteful and it reaches the very serious kitchen bedroom divide that I think is very important in an adult life. The moment that you can reach a point where you're no longer sleeping in the same room as a refrigerator is a huge milestone. It was at least for me,

a huge milestone moment of onset of adulthood. But then he said, think of the cupboard space we would save. And I was like, that guy knows I love cupboard space. You almost got me, Sean, but I don't think so.

Elliot, what do you think of Sean's scheme? This sounds like, I think anytime you can describe something as a scheme, right off the bat, it's like, I don't think this even reaches plan level or strategy. It's just kind of a scheme. I would say it seems kind of nuts to me and also incredibly lazy. Like, I have my days when I'm having trouble getting out of bed, but not so much that I can't even like literally step over to the kitchen to get coffee. But here's the other thing this reminds me of. There's an episode of The Office where Steve Carell's character, Michael Scott of Dunder Mifflin Paper Company, anyway, it ran on NBC for years. It was

a very popular sitcom. He burns his foot because he has this routine where he sets up bacon on his George Foreman grill, then gets back into bed so that he can wake up to the smell of freshly cooked bacon. And because he's an idiot, he leaves the George Foreman grill on the floor and steps on it and burns his foot. But it's like, this is different enough in that, and that he's not saying we'll put the coffee machine on the floor. But it is similar enough to it that I'm like, this is too close to a sitcom person's obviously dumb ludicrous scheme for me to think it's going to work properly in real life. It seems fictional. I would prefer this scheme if it were a ludicrous scheme that involved getting ludicrous to get up a little earlier than you and make some coffee for you. Ludicrous scheme is... I little earlier than you and make some coffee for you ludicrous scheme i too am a dad i'm just saying i don't think you know if ludicrous wanted to do a sitcom

he would have done it and could do it tomorrow but if he decides that he does want to do one ludicrous scheme is a great name for that sitcom yeah that's a good point uh elliott could get a meeting uh yeah so sean no go on this i'm presuming that this is the single cup coffee maker you're thinking of is that like a k cup single cup coffee maker that you find in a hotel room which is the universal symbol of depression and alienation as far as i'm concerned you don't want any of that hotel room conveniences, quote unquote, in your actual bedroom. Let your bedroom be your bedroom

and just go and get a coffee maker. Like you can be pretty fancy about coffee, but honestly, those coffee makers where you program it the night before and you have a fresh cup of coffee, that's what Paul and Janie have at their house. I stayed over there when I was filming TV in Los Angeles, and that coffee was good and it was ready right in the morning.

You just walked over to it and got it. Get one of those, Sean. Here's something from Robert. He wrote in about episode 354, Undisclosed Financial Settlement of Catan. In that episode, you may recall Judge Hodgman and Elliot, I presume you don't waste your time listening to this podcast. Your valuable show business time. You certainly didn't waste your time coming the 10 minutes from your house to the studio.

It's at least 15 minutes and I have extenuating circumstances. And also, I have a lot of stuff to do today. It was a question of how many board games were too many to keep in a couple's home. The defendant had multiple copies of the game Scrimmish, which defendant was constantly calling skirmish, as I recall. Judge Hodgman, part of your ruling stipulated that she get rid of the duplicates. Here's what Robert says about that decision. Skirmish is a modular card game where the number of potential players is limited only by the number of decks you own. This discrepancy going undisputed by the litigants might say something

about the validity of your judgment, namely that it is a hoard and not a proper board game collection. But the act of removing all but one deck of Scrimmish renders it nearly unplayable, save some sad, newly invented Solitaire variant. Elliot Kalin, have you heard of this card game Scrimmish? I'm actually not familiar with it at all. When I became a parent, I put away childish things, by which I mean I picked up specific childish things that my son liked, and I had to put away the kinds of things I like, such as complicated card games and board games. So I'm not familiar with it skrimish is what the sailors would do when they were on long whaling voyages that's right wait a minute yep the original cards were made out of um

whale eardrums and they were shaped like eggs uh robert i thank you for your writing. I think that I was the one who was calling Scrimmish, Skirmish. So that's on me too. And I did not understand the dynamics of the game that is a multi-deck game and an expandable game. And so I allow three decks of Scrimmish or whatever the playable minimum is. The whole point was to not have duplicate stuff, but I get your point. Thank you, Robert. And I amend my ruling thusly. We also heard from Emily regarding a case we heard in the Docket episode, Judges Court, Judges Rules. So the case was about whether or not a couple should give their twins different last names. And this is what Emily says. This has essentially become a recap podcast for Elliot Kalin.

We just recap episodes of Judge John Hodgman because he didn't get around to listening to them. I got you. You're saving me so much time. If you could release a podcast that was called the Judge John Hodgman Summary Podcast, and it's like you take one episode and you just... Yeah, yeah. And just condense it down to like 35 seconds.

I would listen to that. Easy. Okay. We'll do it. You'd probably listen to it on two times speed as well because you want to. Oh, I would. So it only takes me 17 seconds. That would be ideal.

But in Elliot meantime, it would be 17 seconds minus three minutes. Let's go, Jesse Thorne. What does this letter say? Emily says, my twin brother and I have different last names. My parents were interested in fighting the patriarchy, so my mom passed her name on to me while my dad passed his last name on to my brother. They had planned to do this even though they expected that we would both be boys, as was the case in the episode. I'm intersex, so the amniocentesis showed two babies with XY

chromosomes. We just weren't both boys. Having different last names did lead to a tiny bit of weirdness growing up. Sometimes kids at school thought that our parents had gone through a messy side-choosing divorce, but we were always able to easily dispel the confusion. Despite its seeming strangeness, it worked well for us and could work well for the litigants in question. So this is a situation where a couple were having twins and they were weighing the idea of giving them different last names. And I've come around on this thanks to further thought, other letters, and Emily's letter in particular. I realize now any opportunity that twins have to confuse their teachers must be taken.

And having different last names, obviously it is the parent's choice no matter what, but having different last names really does make it extra confusing for teachers. And that's what twins should be doing all the time at school. Do you disagree, Elliot Kalin? I don't really disagree. I am myself a twin, but unfortunately, I have a twin sister, and so we couldn't take each other's place and pretend to be each other. And we had the same last name. But I would say, I think, whatever anyone does, names are a funny thing. And whatever anybody does, as long as it's clear in such a way

that it's not going to create legal trouble later on, like an example I'm going to give you, is totally fine with me. Because who makes the rules about names? You do. It's your name. You know, you can be called whatever you want. And if the kids want to change their names at said, oh, I think it's unfair that you are going to take my last name when we get married. The idea of her not taking his last name apparently didn't enter into the thinking. So she said, well, if you take my last, I take your last

name, you should take my first name. And so he did. And so legally, they both have the same exact name. And all I can think about is the headaches that are going to happen many years from now when their estates have to be dealt with. And it's, it bothers me so much. So I would say that's too far. Different people who are in the same family should not have the same exact name. We like, it's a George Foreman situation, but, uh, you really are getting some money from that grill company. You know what? It's as much as I don't like that he named all of his sons his name, it's a great grill. It really, the fat just drips right off things.

It's a healthy way to eat. And burn your foot. It's a good foot warmer, too, when you get out of bed. I would say that another solution is to give them both last names, which is the one that, uh, that I think is a good one until I guess eventually it becomes unwieldy because people have all their names in a row, but anything you can do to, uh, keep those names as part of the name, you know, so that there's an equality between sides or I don't know, you know what, there's so many different solutions to it. Uh, it's, it's, I kind of want to live in an exciting world where people that there's an equality between sides or i don't know you know what there's so many different solutions to it uh it's it's i kind of want to live in an exciting world where people

figure out different naming rules for themselves and then see what comes of it you know that's exciting to me you're the guy who's losing sleep over the estate planning of a distant uh cousin by marriage elliot oh yeah well but that's crazy because that's because that's a real if two different people have the same exact name and they're in the same family and they're married cousin by marriage, Elliot. Oh, yeah. Well, but that's crazy because that's a real... If two different people have the same exact name and they're in the same family and they're married...

They're going to be fine. They're going to be fine, Elliot. You don't need to worry about that. I'm just worried one of them is going to end up on the no-fly list and then the other one's going to get stopped at the airport.

That's not okay. One of them's a criminal now? Well, not necessarily. There's a lot of ways to get on the no-file list. Some fair, some not fair. I'm glad you're playing the scenario out as far as you can. Here's the solution, everybody.

All children born in this calendar year to listeners of Judge John Hodgman, last name Hodgman Thorne, all children, first name for all children. Corncob guy.

Done. See you at the family reunion. Our docket is clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our thanks to the great Elliot Kalin for joining us today. You can listen to The Flophouse wherever you get your podcasts. I am an avid Flophouse listener. I can't recommend the program enough.

You can also find it, of course, on the web at MaximumFun.org. You won't want to miss these guys live if they are coming to your city. All the information is at FlophousePodcast.com slash events. And you can also look out for Elliot's children's book, which is called Horse Meets Dog and is due out this fall. The show is produced by Jennifer Marmer. You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Maximum Fund subreddit to discuss this episode.

Submit your cases at MaximumFund.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumF subreddit to discuss this episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. John and I are headed to Chicago and there are still tickets available for our second show at the Onion Comedy Festival. You can find the link at MaximumFun.org and we will see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We will see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.