Judge John Hodgman - The Motion is Cary Granted

Episode Date: August 25, 2021

Film Fanatic Rick files suit against his wife, Nikki. Rick saves his Golden Age film viewing for his own time because Nikki is usually not interested. Together, the two of them tend to watch TV shows. But, Rick was shocked one day to find Nikki watching the 1963 film CHARADE without him, and asked that she save that movie for him. She doesn't think she should have had to stop watching it! Who's right? Who's wrong?Thank you to David Hoffman for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions there.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This week, the motion is carry granted. Film fanatic Rick files suit against his wife Nikki. Rick saves his golden age film viewing for his own time because Nikki is usually not interested. Together, the two of them tend to watch TV shows. But Rick was shocked one day to find Nikki watching the 1963 film Charade without him and asked that she save that movie for him. She doesn't think she should have to stop watching it. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. The guy who's talking's got a heavy English accent. He could be a fruitcake. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Rick, Nikki, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Totally. Absolutely. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his preferred Cary Grant romantic romp is to catch a thief? Yeah. Yes. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Nick and Ricky, Ricky or Nick, whatever your names are, very adorably similar names. Rick and Nicky, right? Yeah. Okay. You may be seated. Oh, I do love to catch a thief. I've not seen that one in a long time. Yeah, it's a great movie. That movie really rules.

Yeah. Cary Grant is in a catsuit. These little gloves. That little boat neck knit with the black and white horizontal stripes looking good. Cary Grant was in a lot of great movies, including Charade. Yeah, great movie star. boat neck knit with the black and white horizontal stripes looking good. Cary Grant was in a lot of great movies, including Charade. Yeah, great movie star. But I'll tell you something.

I was not quoting the movie Charade, which is to some degree the subject of this dispute. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either you, Rick, okay, I'm going to get it, or you, Nikki, did I get it right? Rick and Nikki? Rick and Nikki. Yes. Nikki,ki rick and nikki rick and nikki toffee okay can either of you guess what the cultural reference is how about we start with you rick uh i'm really just gonna take a shot in the dark and go uh no that's uh that's not the right movie sorry i was gonna say and do a shot in the dark starring peter sellers yeah the second pink Pink Panther movie before they figured out to call it the Pink Panther to confuse everybody.

Yeah. Put that in the guest book. What other guests would you guess? If not a shot in the dark? That's not a shot in the dark. If not. I'm going to. I'm giving you two guesses.

And Nicky, I'm going to give you two guesses too. Okay. I'm just going to guess. One guess is for Rick. One is for Nick. One is for Nicky. And one is for nick one is for nicky and one is for ricky uh the key here is that we expand this portion of the show as much as possible this is what people listen for this is the show this is the show okay so i will guess

david lean's brief encounter david lean's brief encounter is that how it was billed? Like sure. Like a David Lean joint? David Lean's brief encounter. I think it's from the producers of The Wedding Crashers. Weird. That was such a strange it's part of that same universe. Isn't that strange? Yeah. So like Lee Daniels the butler? David Lean's

brief encounter? Okay that's two guesses for Nick Rick. Ricky Nicky, you get two. I have none. Unless you want to throw in Biodome. Biodome, okay. Legendary Tenacious D vehicle.

And pick another one. Yeah, I really don't have any guess. I'm sorry. Encino Man? Yes. In the Army now. And of course, we can't settle this until we give Joel Mann here at WERU in Orland, Maine, 89.9, on your frequency modulation dial here in the solar-powered studios at WERU across the glass from me.

Joel Mann, can you guess what movie that quote was from the terminator 3 terminator 3 t3 t3 all right all guesses are wrong why did you even why that everything's confusing joel has always thrown me curveballs through that glass you know what iveballs. This guy's throwing knucklers. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, where is that coming from, Joel? Well, I thought the quote was from the Great British Baking Show, but then you said it was a movie.

Okay. This guy on the other end. Terminator 3. Terminator 3. That's the only movie that you could think. Okay. That's the movie you know? All right. Fine. Of all the Terminator, there's really a problem with this guy, Joel Ricky Nicky. He's a jazz guy. You know? You dropped a weird jazz bit on me.

You went in a different direction than I was expecting. Whoa. Boom. Like Kevin Eubanks. Boom. All right. Taking a Pellum 123 is the movie. And why?

Who is the actor who says that? Guy on the other end, the guy who's calling in has a British accent. He may be a fruitcake. Come on, Rick. It has to be Walter Matthau. Walter Matthau, of course. Is that the connection to Charade? Yes, because Walter Matthau's in it.

But also, both movies were written by Peter Stone. Like, Caelan and I were going to cover Taking a Pelham 123, and we might do it in the future at some point or another. But meanwhile, we're here to hear your dispute. Rick, you've already sought justice from this court once, and we heard it on the docket,

correct? That's right. State the nature of your case. Okay. Should I just walk you through the day of the transgression? No, say a sentence. What's your alibi,ick who are you who can corroborate your story

all right yeah i'll allow it let's go back to the scene of the crime okay so open on rick eyes opening in bed looking at ceiling fan it was just a normal day. It's another hot one here in Harlem, New York City. Plays on the clock radio. We see his hand slap the snooze button. So I'm working overtime on a Saturday afternoon. And I hear her play something off of Netflix and it sounds old. So I'm like, that's unusual.

That typically doesn't happen with her. And so I go out there and I'm like, well, what are you watching? She's like, well, this is charade. I thought you, you know, and I'm just, I pretty much just lose my mind right there. you know when we're watching stuff together that's not anything that would ever you know come up it's not a part of our usual repertoire of things that we watch and so i was like well can you at least save that for me smash cuts to record scratch rick looks to camera you're probably wondering what i'm talking about cut to john h Hodgman explaining. Rick likes to watch old movies, right Rick? Yeah. Nikki doesn't care. She loves Encino Man and Biodome pretty much exclusively. They're the two

movies she knows until today when she learned about a third one, Terminator 3. In the army now. That one as well. Rick wakes up having worked overtime and hears the dulcet tones of Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn in Stanley Donen's charade, often called the best Hitchcock movie Hitchcock never made, runs into the room and says, you have betrayed me, Ricky Nicky, my life partner and cohabitator.

That is the nature of your relationship? Are you married? Yes. Oh, fantastic. And where do you live, in fact? We live near Indianapolis, Indiana. Circle City. Naptown.

It's a small offshoot town called Fortville, but we pretty much just tell people we're in Indianapolis because people have heard of that one. Where do you live relative to the fort? I would say about a half hour east of Indy, basically. Where's the fort, Rick? Where's the fort? I don't care where you live relative to Indianapolis. I want to know where you live relative to the fort there in Fortville. You know, i haven't actually

seen the actual fort north of indianapolis you've never seen the fort you live in fortville and you've never visited the fort what is the fort why don't i know what the fort is it's a fort that gave its name to fortville nikki what is this named after Frank Fort, if that's what you think. It's a Zachariah T. Fort. We have a giant pink elephant in front of a liquor store, and he's got a martini and hipster glasses. I want to talk about fort. Why won't someone tell me what the fort is? It's like a military base, an old-time military with a fence, but then there's also other stuff that goes on inside.

Like if you were a trapper, that's where you would go to sell your hides. Why are you all doing this to me? Just talking forts. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I was going by its original name, Walpole. Apparently it was laid out and platted in 1849 as Walpole, named for the wall that had a pole in it. We had no idea.

We've been here like seven years or so. And I don't know what brought us here other than price. Cheap housing. Cheap housing. Yeah. And now the prices are going up. Yeah. You got to make a run out of Fortville.

I would love to. The walls of the fort protect going up. Yeah. You're going to make a run out of Fortville. I would love to. The walls of the fort protect you from raiders. Half an hour east of Indy is the name of your movie that you're in. So the complaint is watching old movies is your thing, Rick. Basically. You self-described as a film fanatic when you wrote in. We heard your case on the docket do you remember what my ruling was then uh provisionally in favor of me good thank you

for remembering because i didn't and why and can you remember why i invited you to be on the podcast live i can only imagine because it was not enough justice in my favor at the time and I needed more. No, I was actually hoping you could help me remember. Oh. I think it was because I didn't understand how you being a film fanatic had not already seen Charade a million times. So why

should it matter to you that Nikki is watching Charade? Wouldn't you be happy as a film fanatic that Nikki is now starting to take interest in old timey Turner Classic movieville that you want to live in? I love that. I just wish I could be a part of it. Had you seen Charade when you caught Nikki watching it without you? I had not. Whoa. Wow. Whoa. Sorry. I thought you said you were a film fanatic. Me too. I thought you were. I have gaps. I can't see everything.

What are your other big gaps? What are some of the ones that would make us go, whoa? Terminator 3, you see that one? Okay, this is a pretty, I've never seen Raging Bull. Whoa. I've never seen Gone with the Wind. Good. Battleship Potemkin.

Have you seen Battleship Potemkin? I've seen Battleship Potemkin, yes. He's seen, he's fine. He's seen Battleship Potemkin? Have you seen Battleship Potemkin? I've seen Battleship Potemkin, yes. He's fine. He's seen Battleship Potemkin. That's my card right there. I've seen Battleship Potemkin. Have you seen Das Boot? Yes. So he's great.

He's solid gold. Have you seen Master and Commander the Other Side of the World? I have not. Okay, then you're out. You're no longer a film fanatic. I should say the early to mid- 2000s is a blurry moment for me because I was pouring in college and didn't get to see a lot.

What did you study in college if not film? That is what I studied. So you must have seen quite a few at the time. Yeah. You know, there's a handful of there that I've only seen because I saw it in class. Right. Yeah. It is kind of insulting that you can get a film degree without having seen Master and Commander the other side of the world. But that's not what this case is about. No. Just going to leave it aside.

So, okay. Look, we all have our blind spots and so forth. I have not seen Battleship Potemkin. Look, I know the baby carriage goes down the stairs. Who cares? I get it. Dunn, Dunnsville. But-

And Untouchables too. Oh, you stole that right out of my mouth, Rick. You got me. And how else does your film fanaticism express itself? It says here you host movie nights with friends. Yeah, yeah. Every so often we all get together and usually I'll do some sort of

double feature and usually usually the theme of the double feature is the two movies make absolutely no sense together so for example one night would be we'll watch close encounters and then after that we'll watch uh no country for old. Absolutely no connective tissue between the two, just good movies. Or like you would watch Master and Commander and then you would watch a movie that doesn't totally rule. A non-ruling movie. Yeah.

Close Encounters and No Country for Old Men? Yes. Doesn't Javier Bardem make a big mashed potato sculpture in No Country for Old Men uh maybe in the deleted scene but not to my knowledge all right and you show do you have powerpoints I do if it's a movie I'm particularly passionate about I'll I'll do a little a little half hour lecture and powerpoint sorry half an hour? Forgive me. I thought I heard you say

a half hour presentation. Estimating, yeah. Yeah. Not even at Elliot Kalin's birthday party have I had to endure a half hour pre-film presentation. What would be your top deck that you presented to your friends

your favorite powerpoint like what are you trying to are you trying to show how these movies don't have any connection oh i'll be specific to the movie and i'll just pick uh something out of the movie that i really kind of like like uh if it's a John Williams score. I'll talk about John Williams. Or if it's a director I really like. Like David Fincher or Andre Tarkovsky. I'll talk about like them specifically. You know kind of whatever I feel like. I know the most about.

He gives really cute nicknames too. Like he calls Spielberg Speely. I mean. That's a pretty first draft nickname. What was it? Christopher Knowles is Chrissy Knowles. These are basically like when baseball players have that players weekend where they get to put their nickname on the back of their jersey. And everyone whose name is Smith, they just have Smithy on there.

You really, go A to C with these nicknames, please. Steven Spielberg is Speely. Christopher Nolan is Chrissy. Lee Childs is Lee. Chrissy Teigen is Chris. You know how like when a celebrity will go on a talk show and they'll give an interview and, you know, they'll talk about other celebrities. But they'll always have those really chummy nicknames like, oh, my friend bobby deniro and so i just i always try to robert deniro is robert d deniro yeah i just try to come up with my own and i love it nikki did he give you

your nickname he calls me his little knickknack oh oh that's very sweet on my phone that way that's the top nickname I've heard so far. Nikki, do you have to attend these parties in their in their attendant lectures? No, I typically go to my living room, drink and watch murder mysteries. It's all about the murder. That's fantastic. Murder mystery television shows like a foil's War or murder mystery movies like The Mirror Cracked? Like Dateline. Oh. Keith Morrison.

Oh, love Keith Morrison. Okay. I got you. Nonfiction television. Guided nonfiction, shall we say. All right. And you said my living room. Do you guys each have your own living room?

Because moving to Fortville, that's the case. No. Okay. Fortville houses are not that big despite its reputation. Where does the PowerPoint presentation go down that you escape from by going to the living room, Nikki? Sometimes it's in our garage. Other times it's outside because he has his own projector and projector screen. And so when it's really nice outside, he'll take it outside. Does he have his own podium? He should. I want one now. Let's take a quick recess.

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Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. So, Nikki, what moved you that day to watch Charade all of a sudden? You seem comfortable in your tastes. Would you say that your tastes are not Rick's? There's like a lot of things that we both like collectively together, but I have kind of a stressful job and I really like to laugh and to kind of, that's how I like to unwind. So usually it's 80s and 90s comedies. It's usually my go-to. And early 2000s, like Bedazzled, I love that movie so much.

That's a blind spot for me right there. Oh, it's so good. You have to watch it. Brennan Fraser, you have to. Oh, right. That's with, what's her name? Elizabeth Hurley. Yeah. Oh, never saw it. Never saw it. Also in Encino Man, right? Brendan Fraser? Mm-hmm. Right. You're Brendan Fraser and Rick is Audrey Hepburn. That's a get together. So what drove me to watch it was, you know, we were, I was, I felt like I was running out of

stuff to watch and, you know, with COVID and everything. And I had watched something and I wish I could remember what it was, but it definitely had Looney Tunes back in action starring Brendan Fraser. Yeah, I was I had watched something about that time in movies and I just ended up having this general interest. So I went ahead and I thought, well, Rick doesn't like Audrey Hepburn. So I will watch. I will watch Charade. And I'll get bonus points because I watched an older movie. You don't like Little Happy, Rick?

That is a gross lie. I don't recall ever saying this. All right, hang on. I'll let Nikki explain. You seem pretty convinced that Rick doesn't like Little Happy. How come? Well, because he told me. He told me like when we were in college.

Remember, you're under fake oath. Or it was shortly after we got married. I mean, and he didn't like Julia Roberts either, and he and he changed his mind he said oh i like her now yeah but i never heard anything like oh i like audrey hepburn now so i just thought i'd get bonus points by watching an older movie and he wouldn't mind all right let's flashback where'd you guys go to college we went to ball state university and muncie ball state okay flashback ball where'd you guys go to college? We went to Ball State University in Muncie. Ball State. Okay. Flashback.

Ball State University, Muncie, the past. Nikki and Rick meet cute on the quad. Go back in time, Nikki, and give us the dialogue where Rick said, I don't like Audrey Hepburn. What was it he said exactly, if you can remember? As best you can remember. I don't remember, except I don't like Audrey Hepburn that much. Was this the first thing he ever said to you? Is this how you met?

Is there a context to the conversation? I don't remember. I don't remember. It was so long ago. But I wish I could remember it a little easier than the Julia Roberts thing, because I remember wanting to watch Pretty Woman. And he was like, I don't really like Julia Roberts. I can't corroborate the Julia Roberts thing, but the Audrey Hepburn thing, I have no recollection. But you haven't seen Charade.

What's your memory of that pivotal date in the past? You ever see a movie called Rashomon? Yeah. Right. I haven't. That's what's happening here. But that didn't stop me from making a million Rashomon? Yeah. Right. I haven't. That's what's happening here. But that didn't stop me from making a million Rashomon jokes over the course of my career as a mid-tier comedy legend. John, you know what happened when they had that conversation back at Ball State? No, what happened? Rick said, what about Breakfast at Tiffany's?

And she said, well, I think I remember the film. And as I recall, I think we both kind of liked it. And Rick said, well, that's the one thing we've got. Right. But Rick also said, there's one thing that ruins Breakfast at Tiffany's. One performance in particular that makes it offensive and dated and awful. And that performance is Audrey Hepburn. Yeah.

Because she looks cool when she's smoking. Because she looks cool when she's smoking. Rick, Audrey Hepburn had a pet deer. Did you know that? A pet fawn. I did not know that. And she'd ride around on it. Because she's so tiny because she

was starved as a child due to malnutrition during wartime. Oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't even know you could ride a deer. She didn't ride it around, but she did have one. I was just making a point that Audrey Hepburn is very wee. You know what I mean?

She was very, very wee. Nothing rides like a deer, Rick. What do you not like about Audrey Hepburn? And is that why you never saw Charade? Like I said, I don't recall not liking Audrey Hepburn, but I mean, I don't disbelieve that I said that necessarily, but- It definitely seems like something a guy majoring in film in college would say. As motivated by the fact that girls like Audrey Hepburn. when she gave up on Charade and I went back to my overtime,

she put on another movie and again it sounded old. So I'm like, okay, what is this now? This also sounds old. And she's like, this is Roman Holiday, again with Audrey Hepburn. So I'm just like, I've not seen this either. What are you doing to me? Why can't

Nikki just watch her Audrey Hepburn movies? Because I'm not there. How does it make you feel when Nikki gets in on a little old-timey movie watching? I just wish it would. I mean, if she did it with, I just, I feel like there's something going on. Like she's doing this on purpose to just charge me up and obviously it's working i think she's trying to get back at you for all the times when the two of you were 19 and you said she had to see fight club i mean looking back on it i

definitely showed her some movies that were not her favorites. Oh, yeah. Like the one, the experiment, but it was like the German version. Yeah. And it gave me nightmares. And I won't listen to the Beach Boys anymore. The experiment, but the German version. It's kind of loosely based on that Stanford experiment where people were prisoners and guards and it's a heavy movie. It was good, but it made me cry.

You're like, date night, honey. Let's watch audition. I got the popcorn. How would you describe Rick's taste in movies, Nikki? How would you describe Rick's taste in movies, Nikki? He likes almost everything. And he's not too snobby about it. I was back then, but now I'm not. Yeah, you were back then a little bit. But not so much now. He doesn't talk about CGI.

He doesn't get super picky about that. I've actually gotten a little more picky about that, which is why I haven't really been watching a whole lot of stuff in the past five to ten years. Like blockbuster-y stuff. Yeah. But he gets really crazy about, like, the comic book movies. What do you mean? He's a little outraged because... I'm not into them.

Because he's like, that's all there is. Yeah, Rick's a real Martin Scorsese. More Hugo. Yeah, more Hugo, less Loki, right? Exactly. I don't know. I could watch Tom Hiddleston every day of the week. Fair. And I mean, he likes so many movies. The place that we used to work at together, we would have like a trivia day every so often. And when there was like a film question, my boss would automatically tell Rick to just sit down and shut up because he would be the one to get it right every time. She wanted to give other people a chance.

What's it like watching a movie with Rick? It's all right. I'm quiet. I like to think I'm very quiet during the movie itself. He's quiet. I move around a lot, and I think it drives him crazy. Yeah. I have a hard time just sitting.

But does he offer any sort of running commentary? Does he force you to watch a PowerPoint? Is there anything like that going on? No. If he put a PowerPoint on, I think I'd just bolt. I'd go shopping. I want you to be very honest with me here, Nikki. Sure.

I think I'd just bolt. I'd go shopping. I want you to be very honest with me here, Nikki. Sure. Were you putting on charade to cause a reaction in Rick? Absolutely not. I wanted to watch it, tell him I watched it, and then I thought he'd be like, oh, babe, that's awesome. What's next?

You weren't doing this to tweak his brand as the movie guy? You weren't doing this to take away some pleasure from him, to make him feel like his whole sense of self was being shattered because he's the only one who's allowed to like old movies? No, I thought he would be happy. I thought he'd be impressed. And, you know, I thought that would encourage us to watch something else when he was done working. Rick, why weren't you just happy and impressed? Because if I feel like if I threw on charade and it was my idea, she'd be like, no, let's not watch that.

OK, but what's the problem with that? This time she did. She initiated herself why why can't she just initiate her own charade because i'm not there okay this is what i'm trying to get at the emotional core of why do you have to gatekeep the watching of old movies what is threatening to you about it i mean you could say it makes me sad i if she wants to enjoy old movies i would love to enjoy old movies with her and i feel left out that would be selfish but but emotionally understandable yeah and i'd say that's pretty

much it but in air quotes he allowed me to watch breakfast at tiffany's But in air quotes, he allowed me to watch breakfast at Tiffany's. When you say air quotes, is that because you are quoting him? He told me it was okay. And I don't do well with getting permission. I just do what I want. Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah. I think this is why we had to hear this. You're a bad girl. You're going to get your red wine and you're going to watch your true crime. It's crime wine time with Nikki. That's right. That's your brand. And it's strong. That brand is strong.

Rick, your brand is know it all about movies. That brand is diluted, my friend. I went down that road for a while. I worked at a movie video store tried to be a know-it-all it's just it's there are too many of guys like us with glasses who are doing that game i i get it that's understandable what what happened with the irishman okay this was also so this is the same day by the way the charade then roman holiday and then later at night uh i don't remember what i was doing but she was putting on something and it sounded interesting

and she's like i'm like what is this and she goes it's the irishman and i'm like you're killing me here like after everything today i kind of feel like there should be a list of like directors that if she's about to watch something with one of them in it, she should see if I want to join in. All right. Wait a minute. You're telling me Roman Holiday and Charade were the same day, Nikki? Yes. Yeah. Did you finish Charade or no?

I only got to the beginning credits. That's as far as I got i didn't even get to see anyone's face nothing and that's when rick came bursting out of the bedroom in slow-mo going no yes that's you were stopped from watching it not this charming caper did you did he throw himself in front of the screen so you couldn't see it in slow motion sideways? Yeah. Yes. So then he goes.

Bethel is a bad guy. And then somehow he got distracted again and wandered off to another part of the house. And then you put in Roman Holiday. Yes. You're telling me there was no intentionality behind that? You're going to rock another Audrey Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn was in it and he was like, I don't like Audrey Hepburn back when we were dating.

So I was like, this is fine because it has Audrey Hepburn. Maybe Charade was a fluke that he was like, well, I do want to watch that. No, no, no. I understand all this, Nikki. I have to interrupt you, though. This is the same day. Yeah. Where did you go, Rick, after you shut down Charade?

Probably back to overtime. And what's overtime? Overtime is your job. Yeah. What is your job? I am a mortgage underwriter. Taking care of business. So you're working from home.

Yes. We both are, actually. I understand. Yeah. He's the underwriter and I'm the closer. Yep. Oh, wow. These two, Mr. and Mrs. Smith over here.

That's a movie, right, Jesse? Yeah, it is. Okay. That's two. Okay, Rick. Easy. I'm sorry. Yeah, it is. Okay. That's two. Okay, Rick. Easy. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

Wow. What was the plot of Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Rick? Because I don't remember. It's like they're spies? Yeah. Husband and wife spies? Yeah, pretty much. Okay.

Yeah. That's it. Right. Okay. Rick, what's the plot of Master and Commander of the Far Side of the World? Good question. I know Russell Crowe is on a boat and he does stuff on a boat. Can it, Rick.

It's a ship. Go ahead, John. So, I didn't understand. You shut down Charade. You told Nikki, you can't watch this. I wouldn't say I said she couldn't watch it. He did. Okay. He did. I'm sorry. I hate to jump in. I'm sorry,

Your Honor. No, of course. I mean, Rick is already a proven liar. He did. I'm sorry. I hate to jump in. I'm sorry, Your Honor. No, of course. I mean, Rick is already a proven liar. He has denied your memory and lived experience of him seeking you out on the Ball State campus to tell you how much he hates Audrey Hepburn. What did he say? You can't watch this? What did he say? Did he say, you can't watch this? Or could you save this for later so we could watch together?

He was like, why are you watching this without me? I want to watch this too. I haven't seen it before. Please change it. And you said, okay. Out of love, I said, okay. And then he went away and you're like, time for a little Roman holiday. Gas up the Vespa. We're going to Rome. Yes. With Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck. Or did you watch the remake with Greg Kinnear?

I could have. I do like Greg Kinnear, but I didn't know there was another one. Yeah. I don't know that Brendan Fraser's in that one, though. Sorry. Darn. He'll be back, though. Yeah.

He's going to be with Bobby De Niro in another movie soon soon so then he comes out and shuts down roman holiday yes he comes out and he kicks down the door this time he burst through he burst through the wall no he came in like jack nicholson in the shining with the axe just like how dare you He burst forth from the underwriting nook into the Karen Kilgareth Memorial living room and wine cellar. That's a pretty aggressive way to describe your beloved husband. Yes, it is.

Jack Nicholson in The Shining, knocking a door down with an ax with murderous intents. Was his attitude mean? Angry? Scary? I'm not scared of him, but, you know. Did you run into a hedge maze?

I was, he was definitely very frustrated. Yeah, he was pretty upset. And he was like, why are you watching all this stuff without me? This is crazy. I was outraged, but in a peaceful manner. Rick, in the past, have you suggested classic films that are fun and light in tone and had them rejected? Yes, but that's usually because they were musicals and she doesn't do musicals like what was a musical you suggested that nikki said no to singing in the rain i've been trying to get her for years to watch that one

never how come you don't ever do it how come you won't watch singing in the rain i mean nikki i like yours everyone on earth likes it too much is it too normie for you i just can't i just i i don't like i don't like musical numbers i don't i don't know like i never have a reason to dance to anything so i don't want to watch other people dancing either and singing. I don't know. I'm just not into it. Wow. I mean, I'm okay with Mary Poppins. That's about it.

But yeah, that's about it is Mary Poppins. And that's like once every five years. Dick Van Dyke was super cute in it. This is like Joel Mann here at Maine saying Terminator 3. I don't know what's going on in his head. I know what's going on in your head. I don't know how you like Mary Poppins. Okay.

But it's a big ixnay on Singing in the Rain. Co-directed by Stanley Donen, by the way, with Gene Kelly. Stanley Donen, the director of Charade. But okay. Maybe it's Dick Van Dyke. Maybe it's Dick Van Dyke. I think he's super handsome in that movie. So there's no Dick Van Dyke in Singing it's Dick Van Dyke. I think he's super handsome in that movie.

So there's no Dick Van Dyke in Seeing in the Rain? That's the... Sure. If that's the argument you want me to put in, I'll just say yeah, because he's not in it. Right. Dick Van Dyke being the most lauded performer in Mary Poppins. He is very handsome and very charming, even though his accent is not great. Wonderful dancer. Look, magical. You know what else is magical? even though his accent is not great. Wonderful dancer.

Look, magical. You know who else is magical? A magical hoofer. It's a dance term meaning a dancer. Gene Kelly. Gene Kelly. Donald O'Connor. I don't know who that is.

He's in Singing in the Rain. Yeah. Has he done anything else? No, but if you watch Singing in the Rain yeah has he done anything else no but if you watch singing in the rain done anything else if you watch singing in the rain you realize he doesn't have to do anything else he was in that movie yeah before singing in the rain he was an insurance adjuster and after singing in the rain he was a closer that's right one of the most gifted physical comedians of all time uh donald oConnor. And Carrie Fisher's mom. Oh, Debbie Reynolds.

Debbie Reynolds. Look, it's one of the has had a lifetime of trying to get Nikki to watch Tartofsky movies when she wants to watch fun movies that are fun, of which there are many classic fun movies that are fun that don't have singing and dancing in them. It's not a prerequisite for a fun movie to be fun that there's singing and dancing in it. There's other fun movies. So is that what's going on here, Rick? I just want to point out for the record, Jesse, that we're on a teleconference here. And when you said Tartofsky, Nikki made a facial expression that said, I don't know who that is.

And Rick leaned over and I think said to her, I'll tell you later. I've got a PowerPoint for you. I've got a PowerPoint for you. But Bailiff Jesse, you make a fine point. So bring it home for us. Is that what's going on here, Rick? Do you have a 15, 20 year relationship with a woman to whom you have only suggested check new wave films and

you can't bring yourself to uh suggest a classic film that might actually fit her sensibilities i have had some success in like you know introducing her to a charlie chaplin movie and she's really like that and so i've been able to find things, but there has to be like this right atmosphere in the air for me to kind of just drop it on her and it work out. I'll admit it. I'm fickle. Yeah. And let's make this like clear too.

I'll watch Mary Poppins once every five or ten years. I've got to be in the right mood to watch it. Right. Okay. And just so that I understand this, same day after Roman Holiday gets shut down by your axe-wielding husband, Rick, and then you turn on The Irishman and you didn't see what was going to happen at that point? I just saw the trailer on Netflix. We have the same, like, we use the same account. And, like, we don't separate it because we do share it with a couple other people.

We don't do that. If Netflix is listening, we do not do that. That's a lie. But we do. Well, they've got, you know, separate profiles and stuff. But we just share our own. And I saw it. And I saw the trailer.

And I was like, this sounds like this could be fun. And it's not an older movie. Let's go. And then he got really upset then, too. I put a streaming service onto my streaming box that only shows those public domain Max Fleischer Superman cartoons. Those are very beautiful to watch. You hate those too, Rick? Because of superheroes?

Yeah. Boy, oh boy, oh boy. You don't like fun, huh? He's good with Batman. I like Batman. Oh boy. Yeah. Which is your favorite Batman, Rick?

Probably The Dark Knight. Yeah. Saw that coming. Chrissy Nolan all the way. Yeah. Yeah. Which is your favorite Batman, Rick? Probably The Dark Knight. Yeah. Saw that coming. Chrissy Nolan all the way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a fan, for sure. Let's do a superhero movie as though it were a Scorsese movie.

That's how you cross those streams. I think that's why I like Batman so much, because they do ground it way more than others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you can really feel the convertible bat tank, you know? It has a certain heft to its six-foot-tall off-road wheels. And also it turns super skinny to go through alleys. If I were to rule in your favor, I love it when it turns super skinny to go through alleys. That's great.

That should be in every car. It's a good feature. You lean forward into the engine and all of a sudden you're in a super skinny version of your car so you can go through alleys. Yeah. Should be standard. Don't know why it isn't. If I were to rule in your favor, Nikki, what would you have me rule? That any movies older than 10 years

I should just be able to watch them if I want to like anything like within the 10 year mark if he wants to watch them together then I'm good with that I can wait but charades have been around for a long time just saying charades is not getting any younger it's true

Rick what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor that if anything is let's say pre Not getting any younger. It's true, Rick. What would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? That if anything is, let's say, pre-1970, maybe see if I want to watch it first. Because I'm probably going to be interested. Wait, wait. If there's anything pre-1970, you get to watch it first before Nikki can watch it. Wait a minute. That's a different thing than what you just said before.

Was it? Yeah, a little bit. You called dibs on all movies pre-1970. I did. Nikki can't watch a pre-1970 movie until you've logged it in your eyeballs. Not until I've seen it. But just have me there to watch with because I would. I even disagree with that because a couple weeks ago, I tried to watch Romeo and Juliet.

And he threw a fit. The Zeffirelli? And was like. Or the Bosnian. No, no. This would be the Leonardo DiCap dicaprio claire dames yeah the boss lerman's romeo plus juliet and what happened i had to shut it off what do you mean you had to shut it off you have agency as a human being he came in and asked you to shut it off

and you did it yeah and i was just like know, I was just feeling it because I love it. It's been a long time since I've seen it. And I love the band Garbage. And I was like, I'll probably hear some Garbage music playing. You'll get a taste of that particular horniness of the late 1990s. Yes. I absolutely love it. That particular horniness of the late 1990s is the new Bo Burnham movie, I think.

I'm really excited that that joke landed because I was really out on a limb. Really out on a limb. Okay, I think I've heard enough in order to make my verdict. I'm going to get into my very, very skinny car, go through some alleys. I'll be right back. There are no alleys here in Maine. I'll just be skinny on Route 1. I'm going to get skinny on Route 1 and I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Nikki, do you think that if Rick wasn't working overtime when you started watching this movie, you would have invited him to watch it with you? Yeah. Do you think you would have been happy to watch it with him had he wandered in and been leaving work? I really didn't think he'd be interested because he told me he didn't like Audrey Hepburn. But I would have invited him. I would have asked him for sure. What do you think about your chances in this case? I don't think they're very good. Why's that? I don't know. I just have

a feeling it won't go well. Da da da da da. Rick, how are you feeling about your chances? Less great compared to before, but I'm still. Rick, what's your favorite overall Walter Matthau movie?

Oh, Walter Matthau. Boy, that's a tough one. I do really like Taking of Pilum 123. Yeah, movie owns. Especially if you're going to talk about a movie that really showcases Walter Matthau. I mean, Charade, of course, is probably the greatest showcase for it. But go ahead. I know you haven't seen that one.

I wouldn't know. But yeah, I'll just go with taking a pill on one two three just because i know i'm forgetting something that i probably would rather answer but seeing the odd couple yes he's great in that one a new leaf have you seen the elaine may movie a new leaf i have not i've heard of it and kind of a screwball comedy that's a that's a really good one uh charlie varick have you seen that one no i have not oh that's a really good one. Charlie Varick, have you seen that one? No, I have not. Ooh, that's a really good one.

Hopscotch, have you seen that one? That's the one where he's a CIA agent who's trying to leave the agency, and he's just flying around on his own airplane. I had not even heard of it until it came up on the Docket episode. Boy. Wow. Looks like you've got your work cut out for you, no matter how this case goes. Yeah.

How do you feel about your chances? Less great than I hoped, but I'm confident that justice will prevail. Yeah. I mean, I would love to get you into a 1980 hopscotch if I can. I'll seek it out. I'm not the closer here, but. Regardless of what happens, I into a 1980 hopscotch if I can. I'll seek it out. I know I'm not the closer here, but. Regardless of what happens, I'll seek out hopscotch. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a minute.

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A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. I rarely do this, but I do have to ask a question that I should have asked earlier, which is why haven't you seen any of these Walter Matthau movies? I thought you were a film fanatic. I've seen Walter Matthau movies, it was just none of the ones that he mentioned. It's probably another one he was like, yeah, I don't like it.

Yeah, I guess I was just listing the best Walter Matthau movies, so it makes sense. I mean, I've seen The Fortune Cookie. Rick, don't defend yourself. This is where I talk. But you can answer this question for me. Do you find it hard, given the amount of overtime that you're working, do you find it hard to watch as many movies as you would like? Is that why you're so low on your math out batting average? Yeah.

Yeah. There's a mix of that. And I also like to rewatch movies a lot. Like, I kind of, there's that little kid sensibility of watching the same movie a lot that never quite went away with me. And do you find that you would like to watch more movies? But part of the reason is that you're working. And also part of the reason is that Nikki doesn't want to watch certain movies with you. Yeah.

Yeah. That's accurate. And so that lowers the amount of time you can devote to movie-dom, film fanaticism, as it were. A combo of professional obligation, a partner that doesn't share your taste, and the fact that what movie time you do have, you're wasting watching The Dark Knight over and over and over again, instead of watching something new. Yes. Rick, it is hard for me to understand how I could have found in your favor on the docket.

I like you. We're having fun together. I love the Fortville vibe that I'm getting from both of you. I enjoyed the cameo appearance of your cat. What is your cat's name? Oh, this one's Calzone. Calzone, right? Yeah.

Good cat name. That's a good cat name. How many cats do you have? Three. What are all their names? There is Calzone, Lillian, and Michael Keaton. This is, see, but Nikki, this is what I don't, I don't, it's like Joel Mann all over again. I don't know where this is coming from.

There's a, what, Calzone, Lill it's like joel mann all over again i don't know where this is coming from what calzone lily like i love a calzone a lot of cats are shaped like a calzone i get it naming a cat for food i love it i love any animal that has a actual human name lillian and then you go to michael keaton all the map, Nikki. You're hard to read. Like, here's the thing. This is what I'm saying about Rick. Rick, you're a gatekeeper and it's terrible. It's a bad, bad game. As I was saying earlier, you know,

being the pale guy with glasses who likes movies, that is what we call in the movie trade a cliché at this point. And it is not a terrific look. People like what they like. That is settled law.

And you are absolutely entitled to like all the movies that you like. You are absolutely entitled to rewatch The Dark Knight all the time. To know as much about the movies that you love. To want to talk about them. To share them with your friends and give them PowerPoint presentations. And I guess you have friends who come back after seeing these PowerPoint presentations for more.

And that's great. Equally, it's absolutely Nikki's right to like what she likes and to develop the taste that she wants to develop in the way that she wants to. You don't have dibs over 70s movies. What we watch does not make us who we are. The culture that we take in is not who we are. That is not a brand of identity.

And I would say if you were really a film fanatic, and I know that it's hard to do it, but get out there and watch as many movies as you can as often as you can. Different ones, new ones, take in more culture. You don't have a lot of time. I know you have three cats, but do you have kids by any chance?

No. No, all you should be doing, Rick, is watching movies right now. I agree. Yeah, get rid of these blind spots. And don't try to police what Nikki is watching or not watching. Settled law on Judge John Hodgman, we don't force other people to watch movies because they're good, quote unquote unquote. You can offer, and if they say no, that's it.

That's all you can do. People like what they like. Or if they give it a shot and they don't like it, that's fine. That's the way it goes. And if they want to watch Charade, just let them watch Charade. You can't not let someone, the person you care about, not watch a movie. I don't understand how it got to this point, Nicky, that he could say, don't watch that. And no point in this conversation do the two of you say, maybe let's save it for later.

When I'm done my work, can we watch this together? Nikki, though, I got to say something. You're unpredictable. You're fickle. I am. Yeah. I am those things. You're fickle.

These are your words. One minute I want to watch it, the next minute the moment's gone. Yeah. It's hard. You're hard to grab. Hard to grab. I want to watch it, the next minute the moment's gone. Yeah. It's hard. You're hard to grab. Hard to grab. I have to say, the other thing I don't like about Rick, unreliable narrator, claims to have never said that he doesn't like Audrey Hepburn.

You claim to remember it. Someone of you is lying. But also, speaking of unreliable narrators, I don't buy it, Nikki. I'm sorry. Doesn't pass the smell test. Charade to Roman Holiday to All right, fine. You made one mistake. One mistake because you are not a film fanatic like Rick. If you were going to pull what you were pulling, you would do charade to Roman Holiday,

then carry granted again with Gaslight. Because that's what you were doing. Gaslighter meets gatekeeper. You cannot tell me that you were not doing that intentionally to bother rick he deserved it he deserved it you are under fake oath and you'll probably deny that you were doing it on purpose i think there had to have been part of you that was doing it on purpose to get your swear to. To get your husband to run out of the room and watch him slowly mentally degrade like Jack Torrance in The Shining. Judge Hodgman, they say the key to lying is to embed a kernel of truth.

And it seems possible that when she put on that first film, Nikki thought, well, my husband will be proud of me if I watch this old movie. But by the time he came in to stop her the second time, she wants us to believe? She wants us to believe? When she put on The Irishman? In my defense, I have no idea who directed The Irishman. Wow.

I just watched a trailer and I thought, oh. Wow. I have no idea. I just watched a trailer and I thought, oh. Wow. I'm watching Rick's brain explode. All of. I don't understand how anyone, anyone doesn't know that The Irishman was directed by Brendan Fraser. Can't you guys just find some common ground watch gods and monsters hey i think we could make that happen never heard of it brendan frazier and

ian mckellen he plays uh the uh director of the frankenstein movies james whale ian mckellen does see this is not you're not doing rick rick r Rick. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I want you two to be happy. And what's missing here is a generosity of communication between the two of you. A presumption of good intention. When Nikki puts on charade, do not automatically leap to the presumption that she is gaslighting you. She is purposefully annoying you. She claims that's not true. Even though I suspect it, I believe her if she says that it's not true.

Presume good intention. Say, I would like to watch this with you. Can you wait until later? I will never, ever, ever let you put dibs on movies to watch before her. And I would also say, Rick, that you should not start doing a PowerPoint presentation the moment you are trying to get Nikki to watch a movie. You don't have to be talking about how it's a biopic about James Whale, the director of Frankenstein. That is not going to, that's not a log line that's going to work for Nikki. There's a reason Nikki's the closer. Yeah. That's a good point. Jesse Bailiff, Jesse Thorne gets to the crux before I do.

Nikki knows how to close a deal. Nikki knows how to make it happen. You've got to take a lesson from Nikki. How would you get Rick to watch a movie with you? I would show him a trailer to pique his interest. And that's what I would like in return, is if he's interested in something and I'm just kind of like, I don't think I'm feeling it. Watch a trailer.

And if I'm interested in the trailer, we can watch it. So, yeah. Wow. Nikki just closed the deal, Rick. Just play the trailer. Play the trailer. It's designed to get people to want to watch the movie. Okay.

You know what I mean? Like there's a reason that when a movie comes out, the trailer is not a guy who looks like you or me with glasses saying, okay, here's why this is important. Here's why. You know what I mean? Like they have professional people trying to trick you into watching this movie.

Yeah. They show you what would make someone want to watch the movie. They show you that Russell Crowe is on a ship. They show you that there's different knots and rope things. Right. You know, they show you that there's a dangerous storm and he's friends with a doctor on the ship. Paul Bettany. Paul Bettany. I highly recommend that you watch Master and Commander. What's the full title again, Jesse?

Master and Commander, The Far Side of the World. The Far Side of the World is a really terrific movie. I hope you enjoy it. See, that's all you have to say. Then watch the trailer. Do you have a PowerPoint for him? No, I don't have a PowerPoint for him. Jamel Bowie has one, though, that he'd like to show you.

So wait a minute. How am I going to rule on this one? I mean, I've given you both a lot of guff, and I hope you appreciate that it's from a place of affection. I like you guys. I like Calzone. I like Lillian. I like Michael Keaton, which is a pretty cool cat name. And I hope that you both understand that the important thing here is to respect each other's separate

tastes, which I don't think is a problem for you, Nikki. You respect Rick's taste, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Respect each other's respective tastes and hope that you can share your taste with them rather than get upset if Nikki's doing something off-brand in your marriage, like watching a fun movie without you, like a fun old movie. You want her to watch fun old movies. So since you asked for the ruling,

Rick, that I give you dibs on first watch of all movies that are made before 1970. I cannot rule that rule in your favor on that one. But since, since Nikki, I think is playing head games, I'm going to stress seriously, Nikki, no more head games with Rick. I know that you could, I know, I know how tempting it is. I can feel it. Rick is going to be more inclusive,

less gatekeepy, less professorial, less talky in his suggestions. And you're both going to listen to what the other person says and try to find a compromise rather than play weird games of like winding Rick up by playing more and more old movies that he would like to see. And one new movie that made old guys look young that I did not see. That's The Irishman. So I find in favor of Nikki, she can watch what she wants to watch. Just like Rick, you can watch what you want to watch. But if Nikki is watching something that intrigues you, then make a date to watch it together. So, Nikki, if Rick is working overtime and you decide to put on Turner Classic Movies or whatever and he runs out, it is a good idea for you to wait for him to watch a movie if he expressed interest in it.

That would be a nice thing to do, the two of you to sit together and watch a movie. That's a nice thing for a couple to do. And Rick, if you want Nikki to watch a movie, just show her the trailer. I find in Nikki's favor, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Police rises, Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Nikki, how do you feel? Shocked, excited, vindicated. Daed. Excited. Vindicated. Rick, how are you feeling? Outraged and sensed and I will appeal. There's no appeals process. Can there be one? You already got two hearings. You each took one home.

If I were you, if I were you, Rick, this is your time to start writing lists of fun movies you haven't seen and finding the trailers. I will get on that. Well, Rick, Nikki, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. In a moment, we'll dispense some swift justice. First, our thanks to David Hoffman for naming this week's episode. The motion is carry granted. If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we put out calls for submissions there. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor, Valerie Moffitt. There are no submissions there. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer, our editor Valerie Moffitt, our engineer in Maine is Joel Mann, the program and operations manager at WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine. You can listen to WERU at WERU.org and you can follow Joel on Instagram. His Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO and check out the Maximum Funds subreddit to discuss this episode. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to follow us tickets to our live streaming show from the London Podcast Festival, King's Place in London, England. That is right around the corner. Tickets are on sale. You don't have to live in England to watch that program. You don't even have to watch it live. If you can't make it live, you can watch it for several days afterwards on their player. It is only, only going to be live and streaming from King's Place in the London Podcast Festival. So get your tickets now. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

Roger says, on a game show, when they ask where you're from, you should say your current town and state. My wife says it's your birth town and state. My wife says it's your birth town and state. Normally, I will say that if someone asks you, where are you from? They're wanting to know where you grew up. But I believe there is a game show exception. If a game show asks, where are you from? They want to know where you are living and residing now. So you might give a brief anecdote about what is happening in your life now. Of course, the best thing to say if you're a contestant on a game show is to tell the host that you want to be a race car driver, but you can't. It's a reference to our friends Casper Hauser. Phone call to the 14th century. Check it out on MaximumFun.org. You know, on these more recent jeopardies, because of the pandemic, I learned this on Stop Podcasting Yourself. Because of the pandemic, they were only casting Jeopardy! locally. So they didn't want to make people travel.

want to make people travel. And so they were asking everyone, where are you from originally, in order to disguise the fact that everyone competing was basically from Culver City. Oh, wow. Well, that's the exception to the exception to the rule. There you go. That's it for this week's Judge John Hodgman podcast. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small. Make sure to let us know what your recording situation is. And if you happen to be in the United Kingdom or Europe, MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.