Judge John Hodgman - The Nog Tank

Episode Date: January 7, 2016

Judge Hodgman and Jesse clear the docket on shouting at drive thrus, ski trips, subway turtles and more, and also set the record straight on Sha-Na-Na.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week we're in chambers clearing the docket. How are you, Judge Hodgman? I'm great. It is a brand new year in the future relative to when we are recording this. When you are hearing this, Judge John Hodgman listeners, it will be the first week of a new year. I'm not going to say which year because I want these to be evergreen. I don't want them to seem dated. I don't want this to sound like a real 2016 podcast. You know what I mean? No, but it is

now a new year, but we are recording this in the old year. At the very end of the old year as the holidays which are now in your memory are just bearing down upon us and I am in the thick of it. I'm here in my chambers, sitting in my traditional waist-deep vat of eggnog, and just getting ready to dispense some justice at the year,

and some unfinished justice. Are you getting in the nog tank? Do you mind if I get in the nog? I didn't bring any swim trunks. Oh, no, no. We nog it European style here, if you know what I mean. Oh, thank goodness. So this is a nog sauna?

It's a nude nog sauna. It's very hot, and it has a lot of allspice. So if you have any sensitivities, you should sign this waiver. Let's pour a little nog on these hot stones. I'm sure Mark McConville could have added some eggnog on hot stones sound effects. But in the spirit of the holidays, I'm just going to beatbox it. Ah. but in the spirit of the holidays, I'm just going to beatbox it. All right, now we should get into the other thing, which is the docket, right? Here's something from Carrie.

Each trip through a fast food drive-thru with my husband, Kurt, is unpleasant and awkward for both of us. He usually drives and he's tasked with ordering the food. He becomes irritated when he must tell the restaurant employee my order. Instead, he makes me say my order into the microphone, which causes me and the employee undue stress. I end up having to lean over near the steering wheel and shout my order awkwardly to a person who's probably caught off guard

by hearing a second voice. Kurt insists upon efficiency in every aspect of his life. He honestly believes this way to be more efficient because we skip the step in which I tell him my order and then he tells someone else. Judge, please issue a ruling. Whoever is the driver must do the ordering for the entire car at a drive-thru. Well, first of all, I'm going to correct you right away, Carrie. Well, first of all, I'm going to correct you right away, Carrie. I think hearing a second voice over the drive-thru radio is probably the least alarming thing that someone and the person who is behind that window has us in life that we choose not to do, such as deep frying the food and shoving it through the holes in our car to put into the holes in our mouth. So that's nice, but I'm not concerned that you're freaking out this

young man or woman. I am a little surprised by your husband Kurt's insistence that you do the ordering yourself. Jesse, do you have an opinion before I give my verdict on this? Yeah, I mean, I think that while I understand her husband Kurt's need for efficiency, there are other ways to have an efficient order. I mean, I don't think typically that there is not a moment before you pull up to the drive-thru for her to share her order with him so that he can speak the order into the drive-thru microphone. Like, there's got to be a moment when you're somewhere between your house and the microphone that she could be like, yeah, I want a double cheeseburger.

Yeah, I would hope that your life is balanced enough that there is some time that elapses between waking up in the morning and being at the drive-thru fast food place that you might be able to put your idea of an order in mind and convey it to your husband. I absolutely agree with you. The thing that puzzles me the most is this seems profoundly inefficient

compared to simply Kurt hearing what you have to order and then ordering everything all in a row himself once he pulls up to the microphone. You're leaning over in the car. That's always bad when that happens. And you're probably dragging out the whole experience and I guess taking the risk of confusing, at the very least, the person who is serving you.

And while it probably doesn't bother them to be confused, it might slow things down the real thing that that puzzles me though is uh uh kurt the the privilege of driving is getting to do these things you know uh you when you drive you get to pick the music right we've established if you're driving you get to pick the music and when you pull into a drive-through you get to order for everybody no no matter what they want. For some of us in the world, it's the only time we have any semblance of control over our families. The rest of the time, we surrender. But when we are in the driver's seat, we are in the literal driver's seat. But it seems to me that by asking her to do this, he's giving up the great privilege of being the driver. So I don't know what's going on. I mean, that he is making you do this seems weird. And that you guys go to drive through fast food enough

that it becomes an issue is another thing that I would caution you about. Maybe the solution should be to write down a few sample meals in advance on index cards that you keep in the car. You can have a different index card for each possible fast food restaurant you might go through. I would even advise making one for a Long John Silver. There's still some Arthur treaters around to cover every base, have them in the glove compartment. This way you can force Kurt to order efficiently without straining your voice

or back. And it will also afford you the opportunity to write down the food that you are thinking about eating and realizing, Oh, this is terrible. I don't want to do this. that you are thinking about eating and realizing, oh, this is terrible. I don't want to do this.

These index cards will be a reminder to you that you might want to invest some time in eating well-prepared food outside of your car if you have that opportunity. Here's something from Grace. I'm writing in to ask you to settle a dispute between my fiancé and myself about the most appropriate way in which to receive gifts. My fiancé believes that you should accept every gift regardless of how you feel about it. I'm of the opinion that there are certain situations in which it would be appropriate to tell the gifter how you really feel. Here's the instance that defined our stances. It was three Christmases ago at a time when both of us were in school and working minimum wage jobs. We regularly would take the subway in Philadelphia.

There was a man on the subway who, in addition to candy, bootleg DVDs, incense, and body oil, used to sell baby turtles. I always talked about wanting one, but I didn't have the expendable income with which to purchase one. That Christmas, Dave bought me a large turtle tank. It was a very thoughtful gift. However, he did not purchase the turtles themselves, and when asked, he admitted he wouldn't help me clean the tank. I told him I was very grateful and that I appreciated the gesture, but I didn't really want the added responsibility of caring for turtles. We returned the tank to the pet store and bought some food litter and a little perch for our cat suki dave has since told me that i was cold-blooded for telling him i didn't like the gift i think it would have been cold if i kept it and didn't get any turtles for financial

or stress-related reasons if you receive an expensive gift that you won't use from a family member or friend is it appropriate to tell them you won't use from a family member or friend, is it appropriate to tell them you won't use it so it can be returned? Basically, if your spouse gives you an empty turtle tank, that's okay to deny. That's okay to say, no, thank you. And really, it's only, I think, when a spouse of some time, a partner or spouse, a romantic person in your life where you have pledged to be open and honest with one another and maybe sharing finances. I think that's certainly a situation where you can be as cold as a as a cold blooded turtle in the Philadelphia subway. way but for the most part other than that and even then you know proceed with caution because a gift is uh is a gesture that you even if you hate the thing uh the the gesture is something you have to receive graciously and certainly if it's something that is given to

you by your parent or if you are a parent and given to you by one of your children, it doesn't matter how ugly or malformed that that arts and crafts coaster is. You have to be like, yeah, I love this because you do. You love the fact that your weird dad made you a terribly ugly arts and crafts coaster. And maybe your kids made something for you too like a drawing obviously i none of you are monsters enough to to reject a gift that is given to you by your own child maybe one of you maybe one of you is i wouldn't be surprised maybe one of them's like no i'm sorry i mean i've thought about it i'm sorry little judge john hodgman jr. But that, but that drawing of us holding hands together,

I just don't see a place for it in my life. The object. And this is something that I learned from Marie Kondo, the unofficial ghost guest bailiff of every episode we ever do, which is that the gift is the gesture, and the object is just an object. And objects, unless you are 12 and you're getting toys, objects are burdens almost all the time.

Jesse, do you need stuff in your life? Do you need more stuff? No, I don't, although I do desire more stuff. Yeah, well, that's good too. I can go to the flea market myself, Judge Hodgman. Right, exactly. I mean, most grown-ups don't need a lot more stuff. And if they do need, then a gesture that fills a need is fantastic.

And that might be a true material need, like I don't have enough food. And that's why charitable giving at the year's end, or in this case, the year's beginning, is always good. Or it might be a different kind of need, a more personal deep need that you are unable to fulfill yourself. Give something to someone that they would never get for themselves, but they want.

That's a lovely gift. But for the most part, it's just a gesture. And Marie Kondo says says once you acknowledge the gesture both to the person and because marie kondo is is kind of crazy she also suggests that you acknowledge it to the gift itself and you talk to the inanimate object say i appreciate i appreciate what you represent and have brought into my life. And then when you are ready, when it no longer sparks joy for you, you throw it away or give it away. I have a vague memory that when I traveled in Japan

as a 13-year-old with my eighth grade class, there was something about bringing a lot of turkey jerky to give away. So that's my knowledge of Japanese gifting culture. Always have turkey jerky to give away. So that's my knowledge of Japanese gifting culture. Always have turkey jerky on hand. Jesse, you and I

are not married. Sadly. Nor are we in a long-term committed romantic relationship. But I do think that as very good friends, we have pledged honesty to one another and if you ever gave me some turkey jerky i would throw that stuff in your fat face i'd be so mad

well i mean i did just a little hint for the holidays a year don't stuff my stocking with turkey jerky a year ago at christmas judge Hodgman, I gave you perhaps the single most useless object any friend has ever gifted another friend, which was an enamel pin of a Hartford Whalers Zamboni machine. That made me so happy. That made me so happy that made me so happy and it made you happy too because you clearly had tuned into an obsession of mine and because of the internet you can find something for everyone's obsession and so that gesture was not merely i'm thinking of you here at the end of the year but it was also i have been thinking about you all year long because i know you love the hartford whalers you know and also you know what else it was small it's a tiny thing i i i love you know it is such an important thing that when i go on tour that people will occasionally give me

pieces of art that they've created a hand crocheted hot dog that says i'm not a sandwich on it um jade gordon out in seattle makes beautiful pictures uh of me and gives them to me and i and i love them and do you know what i keep them i really do i keep them all because how could you dispose of something like that but it does it does mean that my chambers right now that i'm sitting in is basically outside of this nog tank it is basically a hoarder's nest of of gavels and illustrations of me and it makes me very happy by the way i i am exaggerating for comic effect. I have two gavels that have been given to me. Only two. One by a friend of the show and Metafilter's own, Matt Howey,

who gave me a giant gavel at the very first Max FunCon, or maybe the second. And he gave it to me. and he gave it to me. It's about the size of a small dog. It is monstrous. It's a very big gavel, beautifully made and has a little plaque on it that says my name. And he gave me a huge case

and the opportunity to check my luggage on the way home, which was a lovely, lovely gesture. And I have it here in my office. And I just received my second gavel, the only other gavel that I've ever gotten. And it was from Isaac McNary, who is a carpenter from El Dorado, Kansas. And you may or may not recall our friend over at Stuff You Should Know podcast, one half of the great duo of the Stuff You Should Knows, Chuck Bryant, was a litigant on this show because his wife was angry at him for having done home carpentry and not knowing what he was doing. And Isaac McNary heard that show and contacted Chuck and said, I am going to come and fix the doorway into your dining room. If you will let me live in your house while I do it. And Chuck said, sure.

And guess what? Chuck didn't get murdered by the strange carpenter from El Dorado who lived in his house. Instead, Isaac came and lived there for a few days and finished the door widening project that Chuck started but couldn't finish himself. We'll post a picture of me when I visited Chuck in Atlanta in the last tour. You can see the handiwork of this gentleman, Isaac McNary. And then he also gave to Chuck a gavel

that he had made for me. And guess what? This gavel was regular size in a beautiful case that he made himself. And these are beautiful, beautiful gestures and beautiful objects as well. And insofar as you are going to give a gift, bear in mind that the gesture is more important than the thing itself. And then really think about what will give the other person pleasure.

really think about what will give the other person pleasure. And honestly, if you're not sure, I think just a note saying how much that person means to you, unless they're a 10-year-old and wants a toy, that's as good a gift as I would ever hope to receive. Here's something from John. My wife Becca and I are the parents of twin 10-year-old boys and a 12-year-old daughter. We take a ski vacation every January on a non-school vacation week.

These trips are fantastic fun. Condo, food, fresh air, superheated outdoor pools, drinks with friends. They're among the best times we've had as a family. In the past, we've saved money and avoided crowds by going off-peak. We usually go Monday through Thursday and are back at school on Friday. Becca feels skipping school for a ski trip is scandalous. We've struck a compromise. Our daughter will stay home since middle school covers too much material in four days for her to miss.

Becca has now tried to further erode this year's trip since one of the twin boys has ear surgery scheduled for the week after the ski trip. If he goes on the trip, he'll miss a total of eight days for both surgery and ski trip. I say, let the ski trip proceed since it's all paid for and Andrew will have the time of his life before having to go into surgery. Becca says, cancel.

Judge Hodgman, what's your verdict? I almost need to recuse myself due to an intense bias against skiing that goes back to my elementary school days in Brookline, Massachusetts. As you know, I am not a skier because skiing is arguably a sport and I am not a sports person. And for many of my early sedentary years, my only experience with skiing was going on one cross-country ski trip with my class in Massachusetts. And I fell down and getting up, I broke the ski pole and I said, that's it for me. I accept that it is a beautiful, beautiful sport and a very enjoyable thing to do and a great way to be out in nature.

But there was a big class divide in Brookline between those who would leave during school vacations and go skiing and those who would stay home and roll multi-sided die and watch Doctor Who. I was obviously in the latter group. The kids who went skiing tended to be i mean this was at the height of of preppydom and they tended to be have a little bit more money they were a little bit more you know the skiing involves buying a lot of expensive gear and they had the most expensive gear and they would go away and come back with weird raccoon suntans from the snow glare or whatever, where the sunlight hit their part of their faces that weren't covered by the fancy goggles. And they would always wear their ski lift tickets still on their expensive parkas like these little merit badges of jerkism. And I just, I just, I'm really like, I'm sure there may be people out there who I went to elementary school with and who went skiing and are and are now feeling very hurt by the fact that I have sophomoreically nurtured this grudge.

But I just I just have an association of skiing with something the the the rich kids who made me uncomfortable did. And so I'm just going to take myself out of this for a moment, Jesse, and ask you what you think. I have such deep ski trip class resentments that are based on the rich kid middle school that I went to in Hillsborough, California, some 20 minutes south of my home in inner city San Francisco. And I got to go on a couple of ski trips thanks to the generosity of a teacher who was nice enough to overcharge the other children so that I could be offered a free spot on the ski trip. But I think by the time I was about 15, I figured out what had been going on when I was in

middle school and came to resent skiing so much, so deeply and profoundly that I'm unable to render a reasonable judgment on this matter. And in fact, I would also say that I would have to recuse myself just on the basis of this being something that involves skipping school. And as a person who both had to skip school frequently because of disability and as someone who basically never stopped hating school. I just like literally even within my family, I have to like recuse myself on school matters and defer to my wife who liked school and was good at it because I just go blind with rage just at the thought of just the word homework makes my eyes cross and kind of like a gray scrim to be pulled down across my field of vision. Let me understand, Jesse, what button is the skipping school issue in this case

pushing for you you you you want these kids to skip school because you hate school so much or yes i think they should skip school it is both it would that's what that's what makes it so difficult i both want these kids to skip school because i hate school and I think it's dumb. Uh, and sorry, children who are listening to this, but it's, it's God's own truth. Um, and so I think like, God, they're not going to lose anything. But then I also have these deep traumas related to missing big chunks of school, uh, especially before, um, the current class of migraine medications that I take came out, uh, current class of migraine medications that I take came out. Uh, and having to like make up school work, um, for time that I was out of school. Uh, I just remember being so upset. Like, can't I just skip that? Like, do I have to do double homework whenever I'm healthy? Um, right. Uh, well, yeah.

And so, uh, uh, yeah, so I'm both'm both directions both direct both paths lead to uh deep trauma and not rationality well congratulations john for crafting a case that would put that would cause a neurotic breakdown in both me and jesse we are we are now we are now curled up in fetal positions here in the eggnog tank. And I'm barely clearing my nostrils to be able to breathe and talk to you now. You really brought up a lot of stuff from the bottom of the eggnog tank, as it were. And it's come to the surface. And you can hear and worry that you might not get a fair shake here in the court of Judge John Hodgman.

But I am able to be impartial. And I will give you my ruling. But i'm gonna i'm gonna say some things uh that you have to listen to you should go on this ski trip for two reasons one you like skiing and i can't stop you from that. And I bet you if I went skiing with you, I would like it too. But two, and most importantly, it's paid for already. You are already engaging in an activity that is not open to a lot of people for financial reasons, because skiing involves expensive equipment, travel, and obviously the cost of lift tickets and everything else. It is not a cheap thing to be doing.

I would hate to feel that that money, which you have already thrown at the prospect of going down a hill fast, would be wasted and you don't even get to go down the hill fast. And yet I will say this and add this to my order. Go, but stop doing what you're doing. I'm not saying stop skiing, but going off season to save money, which is very frugal and thrifty of you. And I'm not making any judgments about where you are in your financial life.

Obviously, it's important to you to be frugal, but it's more important for your children to go to school. Now, in years past, you're absolutely right to take your children out of school. First grade, kindergarten through about third grade, that's playtime anyway. They might as well be skiing in school at that point. And it's also their kids, and they don't understand. But now you sense, you know already that it's different now. Your daughter's in middle school. She's actually got real schoolwork to do. And if you were in New York City, your 10-year-olds couldn't be skipping fifth grade now

because they wouldn't get into a middle school, even a public middle school that they wanted to go to because attendance is one of the only measurements of of your uh uh the only one of the only measurements that public middle schools use to determine who gets to go there and who doesn't but set aside the absolute insanity of the middle school application process in new york city wherever you live, I'm sure you have great schools, private or public. It's not a problem. But your kids are at a point now where they are, if they're not already, they should be encouraged to take their schooling seriously, not just as school, but as a responsibility in their life.

And you're already taking your kids on a ski trip. You don't want to start training them to believe that the rules don't matter for them or that the consequences of skipping their responsibilities don't matter to them because that makes bad people. And you don't want, your kids are great. You don't want them to be bad people. You don't want them to think,

yeah, all those other kids have to go to school, but my family goes skiing and I get an extra long vacation. That to me is the epitome of what would bother me about the kids who came back with lift tickets on their jackets. They would usually go during school vacations. But what got to me was I would see them and I'd be be like there are no consequences in life for these kids they're all fine they're all fine human beings now i'm sure but i mean if you are already indulging happily in a passion that is by its nature um a fairly exclusive uh sport you don't want to add on to to the additional psychic burden of saying to your kids, yeah, the rules don't matter. We just do what we want in this family.

Because that's terrible. No offense, John. But, well, maybe you're offended anyway. That's fine. So what I would say is continue your passion for skiing. If it's so meaningful to you, you are now going to have to pay money. You're going to have to feel the sacrifice of your love of this sport and the fact that you had children and you have to raise your children properly. And that means they have

to go to school. And you have to go from now on during school vacations and pay the price. In life, there are prices to be paid. And you all need to learn that together through skiing. We'll have more Judge John Hodgman when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it.

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Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel.

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Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh then you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket. Here's something from Melissa. I wish to submit for the court's deliberation a dispute I have with my best friend Casey. The disagreement concerns the proper course of action when

one is attacked by a shark. Casey alleges that the best self-defense is to punch it in the nose. Based on my own extensive research and common sense, I say the correct response is to poke it in the eyes. Casey recently moved to California, one of the world's major hotspots for great white shark attacks. Furthermore, he's expressed the intent to buy a boat. Should he follow through, I have no doubt he'll be torn to shreds within the year. I turn to his honor.

I'm seeking something along the lines of an injunction which orders Casey to poke sharks in the eyes in the instance of an attack, or perhaps a ruling of mental incompetence and appointment of a marine biologist to service his legal guardian. Please help me protect my friend from his two worst enemies, sharks and himself. Well, shark attacks, of course, get a lot of attention in the very rare instances that they occur. The likelihood is that your friend

would sooner be attacked by a shark on the highway than attacked by a shark in an airplane. And even those two things are more likely than being attacked by a shark in an airplane and even those two things are more likely than being attacked by a shark in the ocean statistically speaking it's more likely it's more likely in according to my calculations that he'll be attacked by one of those singing and dancing sharks from the katie perry super bowl halftime show and that he will be attacked by a great white shark while uh in his in his ship uh yeah a sea yeah because those those

dancers who are who are made to wear shark outfits they're angry yeah they're resentful they have not forgotten and they have for some reason not been allowed to take off their costumes so they're sweaty they're dehydrated when they get dehydrated they get disoriented when they get disoriented they get belligerent. And what do you do in the rare instance in which a shark attacks you or a dancer in a shark costume who has not been allowed to eat or drink for several months? You punch him in the nose. Look, this is what you do. You punch a shark in the nose.

How do I know this? Well, I mentioned Chuck Bryant before. He and Josh Clark host the great podcast stuff you should know. And I know that they went over this and they said the old, the old legend is true. You punch a shark in the nose, the shark goes away. And I actually texted Chuck to verify my memory of this.

And I said, does that really work? Punching a shark in the nose. And his text said, yep. And then his next text said, does that really work, punching a shark in the nose? And his text said, yep. And then his next text said, disturbs electroreceptors in nose. Chuck is a man of short texts. And then just to be fair, I said, thank you. Better than stabbing it in the eyes?

And Chuck wrote back saying, I imagine that would work well too. So you're not wrong, Melissa. Obviously, poking a shark in its dead doll's eyes is going to be uncomfortable for the shark. But you're forgetting two things and it might drive the shark away. Maybe as effectively as punching in the nose, maybe even more effectively. But you're forgetting two things. One is the position of the eyes on the shark. The eyes of the shark are not on its head, but deep inside its stomach. That's shark biology. That's not true. It's on the side of its head. And if a shark is coming for you,

guess how it's coming for you? Nose first, because its mouth is under it. It's not sidling up to you to give you the fish eye. If you're going to poke that shark's eyes, you're somehow going to have to get around to the side of the shark or the other side of the shark and i don't think the shark is gonna give you that opportunity to be perfectly

honest and second the other thing you're overlooking is punching a shark in the nose is great that's funny that's funnier than poking them in the eyes. You're punching a shark in the nose. How many times do I have to say that sentence before you accept the wonderful, humiliating beauty of this eating meat tube and this monster of destruction from the depths coming at you? And you go, boop, in the nose. Wah, goes the shark because they're crybabies that's that's a wonderful comedic upending of power with the simple boop compared to that poking in the eye forget it i mean it's like it's i'm talking about buster keaton style comedy here you're talking about the three stooges. You know nothing about sharks. Get out of my courtroom. I'm completely hung up on the idea of sharks sidling up to you. I feel like if

I feel like Judge Hodgman, if those listeners who are listening right now and like me are from the undersea inner city, they know how to spot a shark who's on the roll-up right if you see a shark on the roll-up you know you're about to get jacked and the way they do it is they sidle up next to you they sidle up they sidle up it's the only way they can see you because they're they're dead doll's eyes are on the sides of their long smooth meat heads here's something from Jeff, a respectful correction on the credit given to the Broadway musical Grease as the instigator of the 1970s revival of 1950s culture. You mentioned... Okay, now I'm just going to jump in, just say I'm really glad you wrote Jeff because

I really got this all wrong. I got it all chronologically wrong. So I'm going to let Jeff take this one and school me, the judge. You mentioned Sha Na Na being a result of the revival, when in fact it's the other way around. You may recall that Sha Na Na played at Woodstock and had been doing that whole shtick since the 1960s. It has been said that Grease was inspired by Sha Shanana. It could even be argued that Shanana

are the prototypal or prototypical hipsters, those relishing in the youth culture of the relatively recent past. I cannot think of an earlier example of this phenomenon, so I feel it's important to give the credit where it is due. it's important to give the credit where it is due. And Jeff, you're absolutely right. And I'm sorry that I gave the impression that Grease led to Sha Na Na. But I will point out that there were two phases of Sha Na Na. There was Sha Na Na at Woodstock.

And then there was Sha Na Na with its syndicated television program. And although they are the same band, and i believe technically there's still a sha-na-na with two of the original members out there making music look them up although john bowser bauman is no longer affiliated with the group and the guy who played santini the remember the middle-aged bald greaser who was a member of the group uh he's a i he's a a medical doctor in los angeles now and i've been thinking about making an appointment just to see him but shana now of course was this group they did 50 songs and they dressed up like greasers even though by the late 70s at the height of their fame with their syndicated television variety program they were all probably in you

know 35 to 40 years old they're all for the for the most part, graduates of Columbia University here in New York City. They had begun as an acapella group called the Kingsmen, and then they started doing some of this, what I want to say, old-timey doo-wop, but it wasn't even that old-timey at that point. They were only, you know, 15 years, a decade or 15 years out from the heyday of that classic rock and roll music.

But of course the culture had been wildly transformed between 1955 and 1965 as you know from watching mad men and by the time they played woodstock they were this bizarre curiosity um who who basically were reviving a music that the entire the entire generation there had purposefully shoved aside in favor of, you know, electric rock music of the 60s. Sha Na Na by the 70s, at the height of their fame, and I say this with deep respect because those guys had the chops. They were real performers.

They were funny. That variety show was very meaningful to a eight or nine year old. And that's where it stops, because it was a it was a show about 45 year old greasers for nine year old boys. And then that's a great thing. But it was it was a little corny by the time they got there. And by the time they got there in 1979, of course, Grease had come out or had just come out almost simultaneously. It certainly had been on Broadway. And this whole 50s revival thing was a larger cultural moment. And they were kind of along for the ride with it.

And when it went out of fashion, so did they. But Jeff points out something that I forgot about. And I regret that I misled you all in this great cultural moment that was Seanana, and specifically Seanana at Woodstock. When we say that Shanana played Woodstock, it's often like, can you believe this weird novelty group played Woodstock? But it is worth going onto your Internet to see their performance at Woodstock. performance at Woodstock because this was no longer, or I shouldn't say they were not yet the sort of corny children's novelty group that they became in the late 70s. At Woodstock, they were, as I say, performing music that had been purposefully rejected by their peers.

by their peers. And in ways that anticipated, the Ramones were digging into really basic, hard-rocking rock songs from the 50s and playing them at a very high, a very fast tempo, faster than the original recordings. And they were not saying peace and love they were saying let's go to the top manically at the top of their lungs and dancing in in gold jumpsuits and frankly it was it's one of the most punk rock things i've ever seen committed to film because they did not belong there and they knew it and they did not hold back and that performance of let's go to the hop is true truly weird and magical um so uh i i i regret if i misled you in my brief cultural history of the 50s revival in the 1970s uh shana na is obviously an important part of it and i would be remiss if i did not mention as well uh good friend Jesse, Andy Daly, on another podcast network, as they used to say in the 1970s on talk shows, on another network.

pilot project in which he ostensibly was reviewing a pilot podcast that had been sent in by anonymous strangers uh trying to get onto this network when in fact they were all him playing many of his different characters and there is one episode uh you know the one i'm talking about. Yes. In which the character is Wolfman Hot Dog, who is a surfer and 50s music enthusiast who also works at the Hertz, the Hertz station in Santa Monica. And it is his lifelong dream here in 2015 or 2014

when it was recorded. His lifelong dream, or now 2016 when you're listening to it. Oh, time passes. It is here in the present day, his dream to join Sha Na Na, the greatest interpreters of traditional American rock music, which he believes are still at the height of their fame,

but they're not, obviously. And it is not for children, this podcast, because Andy is an adult entertainer and there are some adult uh themes and references but if you are a grown-up man or woman uh of the age nine or up no i mean you know 18 and up and can handle some adult themes and references wolfman hot dog any daily as wolfman hot dog uh writes uh uh an assessment of what it would be like for him if he were to ever join Sha Na Na

and move into the Sha Na Na house, which is the embodiment of his dream. There is no Sha Na Na house, but he believes there is. He believes that they all live in a house together. He believes they all live in a house together and they're just having the greatest time. And it is one of the most hilarious and and and painfully poignant self-deluded uh bits of comedy monologue that i've ever heard i mean andy isn't self-deluded

but the character of wolfman hot dog is so self-deluded it is it is you know andy has created many many genius things including his tv show on comedy central review but this to me is the explains why andy daly is so great and so isn't there a water skiing element to it isn't he a champion water that's what it was he's not a surfer he's a champion water i can't believe i i can't believe i uh and he wants to incorporate water skiing into shana's act yeah right exactly i can't believe that i made that mistake because of course in the world of wolfman And he wants to incorporate water skiing into Shana Na's act. Yeah, right. Exactly. I can't believe that I made that mistake because, of course, in the world of Wolfman Hot Dog, water skiers and surfers hate one another and are constantly getting into rumbles. But it's nothing compared.

And then there's a separate side rivalry between the ocean water skiers and the lake water skiers. And they hate each other. Oh, it's a beautiful piece of recorded comedy that I, that, you know, it's, it's the, it's the brand new year.

Listen to some new things, even if they're old and were recorded a couple of years ago. Okay. But there you go. We have one last thing here, something from a high school teacher named Eric. Eric teaches at a high school where the students are court ordered to attend and he was teaching teaching a course on uh expository or persuasive writing and women

they're court they're court ordered to attend high school yeah exactly i think it was probably uh for uh uh students who have had legal troubles. Why don't they just skip school and go skiing? Yeah. Like the best people. Yeah. I think a lot of people at that high school show up in a ski parka with the lift tickets hanging off. With the lift tickets still on there.

Yeah. So in any case, he works with kids who have had some troubles. Yes, exactly. And he used in his persuasive writing class, prompt is a hot dog a sandwich um and one of his students named carl wrote an essay on the topic and it's an essay in the form of a letter to a friend and i'm jesse before before you read the letter when eric wrote to me it was a very touching letter because he said that Carl is one of the quieter kids in his class and has had a very difficult time engaging in schoolwork and tuning in to what is being asked of him. But when the question of whether a hot dog was a sandwich was posed by Eric to the class. Carl really got excited about it and insisted upon writing this letter.

And I insisted with Carl's permission that we allow it to be shared with the Judge John Hodgman listening audience because we all know what is a sandwich, right? So Jesse, with that, take it away. As an American, I'm a born expert on hot dogs. I've been eating them all my life for real. And because of this, I know that a hot dog is not a sandwich. It is a hot dog. Hot dogs are in their own category of food. Go on, Carl. A sandwich is

two pieces of bread. In between those pieces of bread might be some mayonnaise, some tomatoes, some lettuce, and some bologna. It's like someone trying to say that you're making a bologna sandwich without lettuce and mayo. It would still be a sandwich because that's what it's been called for years and years. We can't change history. Even the Hot Dog and Sausage Council states that a hot dog is not a sandwich. These are experts in the area of hot dogs. And if there's a higher hot dog authority, I don't know what it is. Hot dog buns specifically state that they are for hot dogs only. Bread can be used for... Go ahead. Let me interrupt you right there. I've heard a lot of arguments about why a hot dog is or is not a sandwich.

But as far as I'm concerned, Carl is breaking completely new ground here in this research area. I had not considered this particular argument about hot dog buns saying that they're for hot dogs. So thank you, Carl. Read on, Jesse. Bread can be used for any sandwich. For hot dog buns, however, the package does not say sandwich buns. It says hot dog buns. So even the bread industry itself recognizes that hot dogs are their own thing. Bring it home, Carl. If I'm at a cookout and

someone offers me a hot dog sandwich, I'm going to look at them like they're stupid. That would ruin my entire cookout experience. I would go home hungry and angry, and I would never go to another one of their ridiculous cookouts. Yours in hot dogs, Carl. I think that that's fantastic. I do think, Carl, that you might want to work on not getting too upset at cookouts

I mean I agree with you if someone offers you a hot dog sandwich that sounds weird and dumb but I wouldn't want it to ruin your entire experience sometimes in life Carl people say things because they're ignorant and you should still be able to enjoy a cookout yeah I mean enjoying a cookout is one of our fundamental rights as an American.

Don't let them take that away from you just by saying something ridiculous. Don't go home hungry and angry on principle alone. Certainly not this principle in any case. But Carl and Eric, I just want to say thank you very much for sharing that. It was really meaningful to me that it sparked some discussion in the classroom. There's a reason that people talk about this. It is maybe one of the most timeless questions. It's so perplexing that we still are talking about it, even though it's a dumb question.

Still, it captures the imagination, and it makes me very happy, Carl, that you wrote that and were willing to share it with us. So I say thank you. Here's what Eric said in closing his letter. He wrote, I wanted to thank you for putting this topic into the ether of my classroom. You never know what's going to spark interest in young people. Turns out he feels passionately about sandwiches and hot dogs so thank you so much for sharing that with us carl uh and thank you eric for for sending it to us i did put it into the ether of his classroom but i didn't think you would notice because i was told the ether was uh odorless yeah i've i've been piping i i should let you know as a social experiment i have uh

piped in various toxic and anesthetic gases into a number of high school classrooms around the country just to see what happens. Right. See if I can affect the young minds. Right. It's called the Curious George Project. That's exactly so. Oh, that chimpanzee ate a puzzle piece. And he had to go to the hospital.

And he ate a puzzle piece. And he had to go to the hospital. What a portrait of a different engagement with health care. He went, he swallowed a puzzle piece. He was put under, first of all, a beautiful lady nurse took him to go see the mans who were going to operate on him. And then he had to have an operation. And they put him under general anesthesia and he had to live in the hospital for a week afterward that would totally be an outpatient procedure by now right that would

be you get that done you'd get that done in a urban md walk-in clinic they would remove that puzzle piece laparoscopically they'd probably just punch you in the stomach until you vomited it up and then and then you'd have a 500 copay thanks obama and they say the republicans don't have a health care plan judge john hodgman is produced by julia smith and edited by mark mConville. If you've got a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO and share it with us there. No case too big or small. We review them all. You can follow us on social media.

We are on Twitter. John is at Hodgman. I am at Jesse Thorne. We have a lively MaximumFun.org Facebook group and Reddit page. You can search for those on Facebook and Reddit. MaximumFun.reddit.com is where the Reddit discussions go down. It is basically the only polite place on the entire internet. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Happy New Year! talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Happy New Year!