Judge John Hodgman - The Obligatory Name Drop

Episode Date: October 17, 2012

Family-issued nicknames and a clash between two sisters! Evelyn hates the nickname that followed her into adulthood and demands that the family stop using it, but Frances loves her sister Evie (and the ability to use the name as she sees fit!). Who is right?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Liz Gilbert, in for Jesse Thorne. This week, the obligatory name drop. Fran and her sister Evelyn belong to a family with a long history of nicknaming. Evelyn decided many years ago that she was not fond of her childhood nickname and demanded that the family cease its usage. Fran tries to use Evelyn's preferred name, but slips up when talking to other members of the family. Should Fran and her siblings be forced to quit using Evelyn's nickname, even when she's not physically present? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Hey, you don't have to call me John Hodgman. My name's John Hodgman, but you can call me John, or you can call me Hodgman enters the courtroom. Hey, you don't have to call me John Hodgman. My name's John Hodgman, but you can call me John, or you can call me Hodgman, or you can call me John Hodgman, or J-H, or J-H, or Joho, or Joe Hodge, but don't call me any of those things because that's really dumb, and I'm the judge, so Liz, swear them in. Fran and Evelyn, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever? I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the only nicknames he will accept for himself are those that have been hand forged for him by Brooklyn's finest artisanal nickname smiths? Well, yes, I do. Yes. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Thank you, guest bailiff Elizabeth Gilbert, author of many books, including E Pray Love, Pilgrims, Stern Men, The Last American Man, and the forthcoming The Signature of All Things. Did I miss one? Thanks, Judge.

Committed was the other one, wasn't it? Yeah, you can include that one too. I wrote them all when I was at bailiff school. That's right. You would get up really early every morning at 4 a.m. before morning bailiff matins. I'm surprised you have the time. And write your books.

I'll have order. I'm talking to my bailiff right now. I don't need you guys jumping in just yet. You're going to get plenty of time. Boy, oh boy. You see what I have to deal with, bailiff Liz?

Now, I did learn at bailiff school that I do have the right to handcuff them and take them back to their jail cells. So just let me know if you need me to do that at any time.

Just like much of Skype, the handcuff function is a little wonky right now. So, you know, forgive me if you you need me to do that at any time. Just like much of Skype, the handcuff function is a little wonky right now. So, you know, forgive me if you're not able to do that. And what's this new book that you're working on? What is it called? The Signature of All Things? The Signature of All Things.

It's a big botanical epic. Yeah. A big old novel. It sounds great, but it's a terrible title. Oh, you told me that once before. Maybe by the end of this podcast we'll be able to fix that i'm thinking something like sunshine kill or the lands down conundrum like you know what i mean something like action action soundy can you put the two of them together uh the

sunshine conundrum no no the lands down conund, a sunshine kill novel where sunshine, where a sunshine kill is your main character, who is a woman assassin. Is it a police procedural? It's a, it's a Swedish police procedural. Everything I write is Swedish. Your honor, may I ask if, if, if she's a vampire? A Swedish, a Swedish vampire police procedural? I think so. I mean, I'd buy that.

Who speaks, by the way? I'm sorry. It's Fran. All right, Franny. We'll get to you in a moment. Fran, if you pre-order my book, I'll make a vampire. Awesome. You mean you're going to go out and bite someone and turn them into a vampire list?

Yes, I will create a vampire for you, Fran. I thought you said you weren't going to do that anymore. Anything for sales. After you turned Julia Roberts. But now listen. So who is the complainant? I am, Your Honor. This is Fran.

Hi, Fran. And the defendant is Evelyn, is that correct? Yes, I'm Francis's oldest sister. All right. Now, for an immediate summary judgment, can either of you name the particular piece of popular culture that I paraphrased as I walked into the courtroom?

This is Fran. I know who says it. Okay. I'm not sure, or at least I think I know who says it. I'm just not sure I know the source. But well, if you know who then that is usually typically the source as defined no no no no okay is it jack nicholson it is not jack nicholson okay then i don't know evelyn whom i like to call smarty pants do you know

uh no i don't know no okay the answer is raymond j johnson Jr., which was the pseudonym of a comedian named Bill Saluga, who in the 1970s would go around saying, you can call me Ray or you can call me Jay or you could call me Ray J. And so often that normal people confuse this with a comedy act of some kind. He actually did a lot of commercials in the 70s for Anheuser-Busch natural light beer. But now, obviously, he is completely forgotten because that is what happens to people who were in television commercials. Okay, Frances, you are the one making the complaint. What is your complaint exactly about your sister? It's simple, Your Honor. My sister, Evelyn, has been known as Evie by me and by my siblings for at least all of my life. I'm one of the younger siblings. And from what I understand, all of their lives, too, because she is the oldest.

And what are your ages, please? I'm 41. I'm 55. Okay. And there are six siblings between you? Five and then one after me. Okay. And did you grow up in a farming community? No, that's a part of the time Staten Island was.

Or were you raised in a Catholic church? You betcha. All right, now I understand. Near it. But, you know, this has been her nickname. This has been what we've called her her entire life or my entire life, rather. And come to learn 10, 15 years ago that she really didn't like being called Evie. And, you know, I tried to play along.

And there's probably some part of it that's being annoying little sister. But, you know, I tried to be nice and call her ev so by by play along play playing along is how you describe respecting my older sister's wishes is that what you mean uh yes okay and calling her by i am a younger sibling and i am a young sibling so and evie what would you rather be called i would prefer to be called evelyn or ev okay but not the diminutive not the ie at-E at the end of it. That's very cute, little Evie. All right, now, so you call her, do you call her Evelyn, or do you not call her Evelyn Franny? I call her Ev or Evelyn. The thing is that when I refer to her as Evie, and this wasn't a problem, because if I was referring to her as Evie, she wasn't around. But on Facebook, it's become an issue again because on Facebook, she sees where I'm referring to her as Evie and tells me to stop.

Okay. So before we go any further, let's just affirm, please, with hands up, None of you work for Facebook, correct? That is correct, Your Honor. I do not work for Facebook. Judge, I'm sorry to interject here, but I do work for Facebook. Oh, bailiff Liz, you work for Facebook? I do. I've worked for them for years.

Oh, I forgot. Oh, that's right. Jesse Eisenberg played you in the movie. That's correct. I had forgotten about that. Boy, you've got such a wide and varied career. Well, my hair has grown out. That's true.

And you're, well, I won't say anything further on that. So, okay. So on Facebook, you refer to her as Evie. And Evie, you don't like that, right? I don't like it. I don't like to be called Evie. Because whenever I hear it, I hear little Evie, you don't like that, right? I don't like it. I don't like to be called Evie. Because whenever I hear it, I hear little Evie, because that's what all the relatives on my mother's side of the family always called me. Because my mother and I share the same exact names.

So your mother was, is your mother still living? Yes. Okay. So your mother is named Evelyn. Yes. And to distinguish you from your mother, you would be called little Evie? Yes. Okay. So your mother is named Evelyn. Yes. And to distinguish you from your mother, you would be called Little Evie? Yes. Why not Little Evelyn?

I presume it would be just as disagreeable to you? It would have been. Well, yeah. I mean, this was all in my pre-adolescent, adolescent years when you want to be considered older and nobody's looking at you the way you're looking at yourself. And when all the relatives, when the aunts and uncles are calling you little Evie, that's one thing. Then when they're kids, your cousins call you little Evie, then everybody's calling you that. And then you grow older, they drop the little, but the Evie is still there. Aesthetically, I just don't like diminutives. You still hear it, don't you?

I do. Anytime anyone calls me Evie, I hear the little in front of it. I'm sorry that you had this trauma of being called something you didn't want to be called. I think everyone gets to choose what they're going to be called. I don't think other people can make that decision for you. Well, that's not true at all. First of all, no one gets to choose what they're going to be called unless they change their name. And people who change their name tend to be

actors or other kinds of weirdos. But, of course, in families, in particular, there's a long tradition of giving family names to kids and then having to distinguish amongst all of the different family members who are all named John, for example. My dad is John Francis Hodgman. I am John Kellogg Hodgman. I'm referred to as John Kellogg. He is John Francis. The traditional family nicknames Bubba for brother, Sissy for sister, Junior, Trey for the third person named that in a family. There's also Quad.

Did you know that? No. It's true. It's Quad and Quinty. And I presume if there are six people named this in a family, it's sexy. I had a grandmother named Nan and a great-grandmother named Big Nan. And I presume that if my great great grandmother were living, it would have been humongous Nan.

And I don't think any of them chose this for themselves. Liz, did you ever have any family nicknames like that? Everybody in my family has the middle name Yardley. And they're all called that, But I had a traumatic childhood nickname. My nickname was Pooh. And I asked that they stop calling me that. As in bear or? I prefer not to get into it. Okay, little poopy. We'll get back to you in a moment.

But you decided that you wanted to be you you always saw yourself as an as evelyn is that not correct i always saw myself as evelyn or ev i was willing to give people a break and give them one syllable to say instead of three i say well it's very very big of you so why don't you respect her wishes uh franny um because it's like, for me, first of all, you can call me Franny. Well, it doesn't bother me. Generally, my family still uses the diminutive. I don't care. Professionally, I'd probably have a problem with someone calling me Franny because it is diminutive, but we're not talking about a professional relationship between me and my sister. Why do I do it? I don't know. I'm torn between doing it because it's what I've called her my entire life. So if it's a cup, I call it a cup. If it's an Evie, I call it an Evie.

And I'm torn between that and then the, you know, bratty little sister. I know it's going to, you know, make Evelyn cringe. And so I will call her Evie. And I don't know which is motivating me. It's probably a bit of both. So this is why I need the court's wisdom to tell me I should not at all feel the least bit compunction about calling her Evie or I should just stop it and look like a grown-up already. I'd like to make another point. May I? I'll allow it. If she's referring to me to other people but not to me, then if I don't know about it, I mean, I'm not saying she can never call me that in her

private life when I'm not around, but when she uses Evie on Facebook, it's usually in the middle of some sort of argument that we're having where somebody posts something, somebody else posts something, people are jumping in, and then people start arguing and fighting with each other. And then if we're disagreeing on something, then Evie comes in. Okay. I got you. So how would it go, for example? So little baby Evie, you love Mitt Romney and hate Medicare and, um, and, and, uh, microscopic Franny, uh,

you are a Muslim socialist. So like, so, and you get into a fight and so show me, you play a little Evie, you play a microscopic Franny. What, how,

what put it in context? What would she say to get your goat? Just saying the word, or is there a tone? You're talking about oral speech, or you're talking about a Facebook comment? To illustrate your point that in a political fight on Facebook, she will use a diminutive to run you down, to make you smaller, as it were. Right. Then she'll just start off the sentence with Evie, comma, and then make her point. Okay. So just that one little rhetorical knife jab of diminution.

Yes. Okay. Yes. All right. I got you. Well, I deny that, Your Honor. Oh, you do, do you? Yeah.

Are you calling this sweet little baby Evie a liar? I'm calling her perhaps mistaken. Okay. Go on. Well, the last time I called her Evie, it was in the context of – At the beginning of this podcast. Stand by, please. I will have order.

I will have order. I cannot nickname you more harshly than i already have done so judge yes liz do you need me to put little tiny gags on them oh poo that's adorable no thank you just let me know all right thank you very much so all right just let your sister speak there, Evie. I can't make your, I've already gone to little baby tiny Evie. I can't, I don't know what else I could do. All right, go.

You can go to Higgs boson Evie, I guess. That would be small. Oh, God particle Evie. I see. Very well. So small, we don't even know for sure that it exists. Or I guess we do know now because of science. All right.

Very good. I will allow the large Hadron collider joke but watch it from now on okay big fran go right is your last time i called her evy on facebook it was it was done specifically to highlight the evie-ness. It wasn't just E-V-I-E. It was E-V, capital E, capital E. And it was making a Shakespeare joke or rather a joke about whether or not her Facebook friends would have recognized a line from Hamlet. So it wasn't political. It was a high literary put down

with a meta Evie to boot. Yeah. I see. All right. Now, Fran Fran, you mentioned that you mentioned that you were referred to as Franny, and you have 37 siblings or whatever. Were nicknames a big part of your growing up? Oh, absolutely. I believe you entered some.

Our dad was pretty famous for making up just clever, probably I think in this day and age it would be looked at as downright cruel, but just clever nicknames for all of us. So, like, you sent in a in a chart of nicknames. Let me get that up here so I can review it. Bailiff Liz, will you hand me the chart of nicknames, please? There you go, Judge. Thank you very much. That was a great virtual handoff. Thanks. Now just take me 45 minutes to open Excel. Okay, here we go. Very good. So far, so good. Every Excel spreadsheet that I've opened for the past two years is now opened. Good. Thank you very much. That was very useful. And now after I click these all closed,

I can see this chart of nicknames. So here we have legal first name, Evelyn, name called by siblings in youth, Evie, name called by dad, the bright eyed Evie. What? What is that? That's a Homerian epithet for Athena from one of the from one of the translations of the Odyssey. She's called the bright eyed Athena. Oh, I see. Well, do you have a friend? I'm sorry, Francis, are you called rosy fingered Francis? Gosh, darn it.

May I just interject for a second, please? Bailiff Liz. Yes, judge. I've been making the Dawn's rosy fingers jokes since I was 15 years old. Okay. That's judge's prerogative. I don't need you. I'm sticky fingers out of my mouth. I stole that need you coming in here and taking words out of my mouth.

I stole that from you. No wonder they call you poo. So, Francis, you are also known as Frantic. And then Mystic. And then Mystic. Ooh, Mystic. So you had a nickname on a nickname, because Frantic was obviously a clever play on words on frantic. And then you add on Mystic. Ooh, Mystic. So you had a nickname on a nickname, because Frantic was obviously a clever play on words on frantic.

And then you add on Mystic. Yeah. And was that your Ren Faire name? I'm sorry? Nothing. And then who else did we have? We have Joseph, who is Joey, and your dad called him? Joe or Joseph.

I don't think he had a clever nickname. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. Or if he did, I just didn't know it. Doesn't sound like it. Who are the three sisters? Oh, they are the Lee sisters, Ug, Gast, and Beast. Those would be our sisters Elizabeth, Monica, and Maria.

And their names were Ug, Gast, and Beast, the Lee sisters? As in Ug, Gast, Lee, Beast, Lee. I see. Did you guys grow up in a Wes Anderson movie? It was very twee. Or did you grow up in You Can't Take It With You? Your mom's nickname, Fran, for you was Francesca de Rimini?

Yes, she would yell Francesca de Rimini to me. And she was a, I came to realize in high school, much to my horror, senior year of high school, I'm reading The Inferno and I find that Francesca de Rimini is a famous adulteress circling around in the second circle of hell. So there are a lot of classical references. What do or did your parents do? That's where the Francesca de Rimini came in. It was just because mom liked the opera.

What do you want to have happen here, Evie, Evelyn, Ev? What is the outcome for you? You say you don't want, you can't prevent her from calling you Evie in private or among siblings when you're not there or just quietly in her room when she's disfiguring a photograph of you or something like that. Right. But in public on Facebook, you would like me to prohibit her from referring to you as Evie? Is that the kind of thought control you're looking for? I would prefer not to be called Evie, either in writing or orally. I see. Yes, that is what I would prefer not to be called Evie, either in writing or orally.

I see. Yes, that is what I would prefer. And how do you respond to the fact that people who change their names after being known as one thing for a long time, who change their names in adulthood, come across kind of as pompous jerks, what I call the Lawrence Fishburne stipulation? But I never wanted to be called Evie. It's not like I'm just making that decision 10 or 15 years ago. I always made it known that I did not want to be called that. Oh, so I see. They just didn't listen to me. So it's not like you woke up one day and felt like, I don't think I'm being taken seriously as an actor, even though I

was in Apocalypse Now at the age of 12. and therefore I'm going to be Lawrence from now on. This was always your position. I have always used my name Evelyn. I have never introduced myself to anyone as Ev or Evie. I've always introduced myself as Evelyn. I have three children. My daughter's name is Teresa. And people said, oh, and then you can call her Terry.

And I said, no, I'm naming her Teresa. I will call her Teresa. So, yeah, you could say I have a thing about names in that I call people what they are named. Look, as the father of a son named Francesco de Rimini, what are your other children's names, if I may ask? My second child is Daniel, and we call him Daniel. Dan Dan. Or Dan, but we never call him Danny. No, you hate him.

And then my third child is Luke, one syllable. Can't really do much with that. Lukey. Lil Lukey. We never called him that. Never. Okay. Lukey Pants.

Never called him that. Never. Okay. Loopy pants. Never called him that. All right. And what justice do you seek, Fran Fran, for yourself? I'd like to be able to call Evelyn Evie without having to second guess myself. So it's sort of licensed to use the name Evie. Whether I use it or not, you know, it'll just be whatever comes off the top of my head. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. But I want to not have to worry about whether I'm doing it because that's the fun affectionate name I've called her my whole life or am I doing it because I'm an obnoxious little sister. I just want the license to use it. You want merely the freedom of expression. Yes. All right. And,

and Evie, I know that you, you have to go to pick up one of your children, either TT or Danny boy, or it would be Danny boy, tiny Lukey, little Luke, little Luke Skywalker with three wise in order to get around George Lucas's

lawyers. But I will, I do must, I must ask you one more question, which is this. Are you currently in prison? No. Okay. It's a prison of the mind.

I have everything I need to make my decision. I'm going to go into what I call chain bees, and I will be out in a moment to render my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. So ladies, let's start with Evelyn. How are you feeling about your chances in this case? I feel my chances are good. You think the judge was persuaded

by your passionate defense of your actual name? I hope so. I hope he realizes that we share the same birthday. So if he believes in anything to do with the birthday twin thing, he should rule in my favor. I have to warn you as a, as a frequent spectator in this courtroom, the judge does not like that kind of pandering. It might actually work against you, that sort of thing, just saying. But he's out in the chamber right now. Oh, that's right.

He can't hear a single word we're saying. Now, I have to ask you one- Can I pander to you? We both live in New Jersey. Can I pander to you? Do you have influence with the judge? I'll pass him an envelope of money immediately. Ev, Ev, Ev, if you're going to pander, I mean, pander with the park slope pandering.

Don't go Jersey. Everybody knows that New Jersey courtrooms are the least unethical in the country. Evelyn, I have to ask you a question. Are you familiar with the expression, the much-loved child has many nicknames? I am not. Oh, but you know what? If that's true, then the favorite is Elizabeth. Yes, the favorite would be Elizabeth. The favorite is always

Elizabeth. Could you let us know what Elizabeth's nicknames are? There are probably about ten, but they are Liz, Lizzie, Lizard, Pidget, Pidgey, Ma Elizabeth. Oh, Biddy, yeah. Biddy. Um, Little Bit. Does anybody call her Pooh? No, no one calls her Pooh. No, you know what? I call my youngest Pooh.

I gotta, I gotta rethink that if this is going to cause her, you know, trauma for the rest of her life. You might want to look into that. Uh, so Frances, let me turn to you now. How do you feel your chances are in this case? You know, I think they're pretty good. I think that the judge will agree with me that you can't choose what people call you. I think he's probably going to advise me to, you know, grow up already. But I think on the merits, I think I've got a pretty good shot. I have one final question for you. Frances, you're a socialist. What do you call our current president of the United States?

Sir, I just refer to him as the president. Would you ever call him Barry Obama? No, I wouldn't. I think that's a childhood nickname that he doesn't like. Just saying, Frances. Just saying. I didn't grow up with him. It's not the nickname that I've used.

But people who want to put him down use it. That's how they put him down. That's how they refer to him when they want to make him seem like it's not important. No, they don't, Evelyn. They call him Barack Hussein Obama when they want they put him down. That's how they refer to him. No, they make him seem like it's not important. No, they don't. Evelyn, they call him Barack Hussein Obama when they want to put him down. Well, I've gotten plenty of emails from my uncle who's always go who just forwards things that other people send him. And it's always bury this and bury that. Well, let's let's see how the judge rules on this. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Thank you. You may be reseated. I just overheard as I was coming back from chambers.

Yes. The most common one I see is Barry Hussein Obama. That's really very biting. I just call him Prezzy. I call him Little Prezzy. I call him little Prezzy. Little Prezzy. I call him little idiot man child Prezzy, mercurian candidate conspiracy man. So I asked if you were in jail, because this is one of the very first times on this legal, quasi-legal internet justice podcast where I actually went to legal precedent and specifically the case from the state of Wisconsin, 1995 Adrian Scott Williams versus Racine County circuit court in which he

had applied with the state to change his name from Adrian Scott Williams to Romancio Sir Tasty Maxibilian. That's fantastic. It's not Maximilian. It's Maxibilian. M-A-X-I-B-I-L-L-I-O-N. which were relayed in the court papers as via a telephonic hearing, included spiritual reasons, motivational reasons, sentimental reasons, business reasons, and professional reasons. And to quote the court papers, after hearing Williams' petition,

the court held that the state had a legitimate interest in knowing Williams by his convicted name and denied the petition. There was some concern that if they allowed him to change his name, I guess, to Romancio Sir Tasty Maxibilian, not only would he be the coolest man on earth, but he might be hard to track down if he ever got parole. So that actually provided me with some guidance because the court papers were very clear that anyone in the state of Wisconsin, and as goes Wisconsin, so goes the world, has the right to change their name legally and choose what they are to be called unless there is a compelling state interest to deny them that.

Now, Romancio Sertacea Maximilian is not a nickname, but there is the principle there. Is there a compelling reason not to allow Evelyn to demand that human beings call her Evelyn or Ev, her chosen nickname? People who change their names are a kind of doomed lot because you might easily get stuck with a dumb name or a dumb nickname at birth. And then when you get older, you want to sound like a grown-up and not a little boy named Tommy or Jamie. It's very hard to get people to stop calling you by your childhood diminutive nickname, even though you no longer want to be called Tommy, though you are a Tom. You no longer want to be called Jamie, though you are a james or rye which is short for zachariah i learned from the internet uh and so you are stuck with a lot of people who out of ignorance

uh but good intentions still call you by that little name that you don't want to have anymore and it is as we know from the historical precedent of barry uh husseamai, designed to diminish you and make you into a child. At this point, the need for distinction among the family names is no longer really a necessary factor, particularly since Evelyn has kindly offered her own acceptable diminutive, which is Ev. diminutive, which is Ev, and therefore the onus and obligation is certainly on her siblings who claim to love her, to respect her wishes, and call her what she wants to be called. Any use of the term Evie at this point is not out of habit. It cannot be out of habit because the order has been given plainly by Evelyn that she does not want to be called this. It can merely be younger sibling teasery, we shall call it. A getting of goatness. As you know,

this court is very fond of siblings and family members bothering each other and getting each other's goats. But I must rule in favor of the integrity of the grown woman who is known as Evelyn or Ev. If you would not call her Evie casually when she is in earshot, you might not call her Evie casually in the global earshot that now is the social network I will not name. However, if you need to tease her or be mean to her, I will not ever repress your freedom of speech. So when you write Evie in future, you have to put an asterisk after it, and at the bottom of your message,

you have to stipulate these precise words. My sister prefers to be called Evelyn or Ev. I am being really obnoxious. One final ruling. Luce is not a nickname for Lucy. It is a slur upon Lucy's character. This is a sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Francis, you have been rather sternly rebuked by the judge. How do you feel? I don't feel bad about it because what it does is it puts the onus on me to make sure that if I'm calling her Evie, I'm doing it because I'm an obnoxious younger sister and I have to do it in that mode. So I can live with that. I have to be purposeful about it. And I think it, it, it clears, clears the road for both of us. Evelyn will know that I'm being obnoxious younger sister when I use it. The world will, because I'll have to use an asterisk. Um, and, and I no longer have to worry in my mind, um, should I delete that and make it Ev? Am I being obnoxious or am I just being, that's what I'm sort of used to calling her. In fact, I would even

go so far. Evelyn, are you satisfied with this ruling or do you feel like the asterisk is a stain on your character indicating that you might have used steroids to get your world title? I am okay with the ruling. I'm fine with the ruling. I'm fine with the ruling. Because now Fran's intention will always have to be clear because she's even admitted to me that half the time she uses it, she's not sure whether it's habit or to get my goat.

And now we'll know. Now it is clear. And that shall be the fine for every offense. Every offense. Okay, let's wrap it up. Evelyn, we trust you to report to this court if your sister is violating the conditions of her parole. I would love to.

Thank you very much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast, Evelyn and Frances. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Well, that was a very stirring case, John. Yeah, Liz, I just came up with another name for your book. Go ahead.

The Lawrence Fishburne Stipulation. Lawrence Fishburne is a guy who made it work, though. It took me a long time to stop calling him Larry Fishburne. Yeah, I still call him Barack Fishburne, but I think I might just be getting him confused. I think I'm going to use my full name from now on. John Kellogg Hodgman? John-ance, Kellogg-ance, Hodgman-ance. His eminence.

That's interesting that your parents named you that. Was that to distinguish you from somebody else in the family? My father, John Francis Hodgman, presumably. I would imagine. I'm not a junior. I'm not Junie. Junie is short for junior. Did you know that? Who's called Junie? People who are called junior. Did you know Skip is a nickname? If you have your grandfather's name, they will sometimes call you Skip because you took the name that skipped a generation.

No. Yes. That can't possibly be true. Why else would you be named Skip? Why do they call people Stop? Because they're coming too fast. Because they're not going to have any more kids. These are my sons. Skip and Stop.

They are also small dogs. Because they're named for the last word of a telegraph. Oh, maybe there was a misunderstanding when their birth was announced. Exactly so. John Gallagher. Skip.

Stop. Has been born. I want my name to be. Oh, Judge. Romanceos. I know you're a little tired from that stressful case, but I couldn't help but notice that you've got quite a docket building up here. Oh, okay, fine. Should we start to take it apart? We won't talk about nicknames anymore. All right, Judgey.

Okay, go ahead, Pooh. Pooh. Kelly writes, Judge, I am a fan, and I am consistently impressed by your wisdom. However, you recently said something only an insane person would say. Gin martini. That is a pleonasm, a term I have just learned. Saying gin martini is like saying free gift, unexpected surprise or pair of twins. free gift, unexpected surprise, or pair of twins. I'm sure you already know this, but you are subconsciously pandering to the unwashed masses who believe martinis contain vodka. I pray for an injunction against yourself that you shall never again utter the term gin martini. P.S.,

if you happen to read this on the podcast, be advised that masculine pronouns would be the most apt to refer to me, says Kelly. Gotcha. Well, my nickname for Kelly is Little Kelly Girly Name. And, Little Kelly, I'll say that there was a time when what you say was very true. The martini meant very specifically a drink made with gin and dry vermouth in different portions and originally orange bitters, which is very rarely used now in a martini. And the vodka martini was a more recent invention and was called originally, as it was being marketed, I think it was by Smirnoff originally,

it was called a vodka-tini. originally. It was called a vodka-tini. But language is a living language, and it is defined by usage, not by academies of alcohol. And vodka is pervasive, and vodka triumphs. There are now two kinds of martinis that are generally accepted, gin and vodka. And indeed, martini itself has largely become a catch-all phrase for any garbage that you put into a martini, stemmed martini glass. Sometimes you need to surrender your principles somewhat simply to be understood, especially at a bar. And if you actually want the drink that you want,

you need to be very specific. If, on the other hand, Lil' Kelly, you're the sort of person who baits a bartender by asking for a martini solely to sniff at him or her when she asks what vodka, you are yourself lower than a vodka drinker, and I do not wish to know you. Judge, I was a little bit confused by this, because when Kelly said gin martini, I didn't think you need to specify, because I thought when you ordered a martini,

you automatically meant an appletini. It's true. Because after I go shopping in high heels, that's what I always like to drink with my girl bailiff friends. The only time you ever need to specify appletini is when it's a caramel appletini. It's almost time for me to go bobbing for appletinis. A caramel appletini in a glass made of free candy and breadsticks. That's the specialty of the house. Now, you know that I was a bartender for a long time, before I became a bailiff. Before long time, Josh. That's right.

Before I became a bailiff. Before you became a nickname expert and bailiff. Yeah. So tell me, what classic pre-prohibition cocktails would they order at the Coyote Ugly Saloon? I will say that at the Coyote Ugly Saloon, the most popular cocktail was a mug of beer that I was taught as an apprentice bartender. Wait a minute, a mug of beer? The most important thing with a martini was just to get the color right, to make sure that you used clear liquid of some sort. I think that's fair enough.

Liz actually was a bartender at Coyote Ugly, but a mug of beer, like a coffee mug? Yeah, a coffee mug that says, World's Best Dad. This is a crazy place. I want to go to this place. World's Greatest Boss. I can't believe it. We had them all lined up there. You could choose whichever World's Greatest thing you wanted to drink your appletini out of.

I cannot believe it. And I remember making tequila teenies when I was working there. What? With vermouth? I don't know. Some kind of clear liquid. But you would just pour it down someone's throat, right? Yeah. That way they didn't see the fruit flies that were in the bottles.

You might remember it. It wasn't a very clean bar. I can't believe you tricked me into buzz marketing Coyote Ugly Saloon. Oh, I didn't mean to do that. Let's go on to the next one. Let's go on with the docket. Kim writes, Kim and Tim are a married couple. They're very cute. They both

love watching television before going to bed, but cannot agree on what a suitable show. Oh, wow. Let me reread that. There's a little typo in there. Kim and Tim are a married couple. This is a professional Oh, wow. Let me reread that. There's a little typo in there. Kim and Tim are a married couple. This is a professional author, everybody. She does what she's talking about. Oh, my goodness. It's probably my typo. They both love watching television before going to bed, but cannot agree on what suitable show to watch before going to bed. Kim loves to watch reality TV channels like

Bravo, while Tim likes to watch nature programs like Planet Earth and Wild Russia. Tim argues that nature shows are better to watch at night because they are soothing and educational. On the other hand, Kim works long hours and says she wants to veg out to some mindless television when she gets home. Kim suggests Tim should watch his programs before she gets home, as he is home for hours before she returns each evening. Kim and Tim need your help, or their marriage will suffer. First of all, my nickname for Kim is Kim a boy or a girl. I'm so confused. I'm just going to call this person Rudyard Kipling's Kim. The obvious solution for you, Kim and Tim, a married couple,

is to lie in bed and watch your own separate shows on your own separate devices with headphones on and never look at or speak to each other and fall asleep in the middle of them. That way you'll be really married. That's excellent advice. As somebody who's thought and written a lot about marriage, I can say that I do stand by the standard rule that in the evenings and in the bedroom, you should not be watching TV. The bedroom should just be for sleeping and not having sex. Exactly. But in fact, you know, 50%, they say, of Americans fall asleep watching television in bed. And I hope, Kim and Tim, that you did not specify, but I hope that you are not watching TV in bed. And I hope, Kim and Tim, that you did not specify, but I hope that you are not watching TV in bed.

I hope that you don't have a television in your bedroom. As far as I'm concerned, television should only be in the bedroom if you are staying at a hotel. And then the appropriate thing to do is to eat a chicken Caesar salad at 2 a.m. while watching Captain America on LodgeNet. Otherwise, I don't think that it is ever worth it to have television in bed. There have been no soothing I don't care how soothing you find

it to watch a Mexican giant cave bat eat a giant millipede on planet Earth or whatever. Or how soothing you find it to watch a real housewife eat a giant millipede or another real housewife on Bravo. TV, like bats and real housewives are

predatory and it is designed to keep you awake. It is designed to keep your mind anxious, to keep you in fact, in a kind of a hunting and seeking mode as you go through channels. Uh, and, and it is not a good way to, uh, get your brain ready to go to bed and it will compromise your sleep. way to get your brain ready to go to bed. And it will compromise your sleep. And then you will be unhappy. So I would say I order you, first of all, if you are watching TV in bed, to stop doing that.

And instead, go out into the living room and watch a show that you like before going to bed that you both like. If you cannot decide on one, then you have to alternate between Bravo and Nature. I would just recommend just watching House Hunters International all the time. When that show is done, turn off the TV and then do 100 push-ups,

and then you'll be ready for bed. I'm just afraid that if Kim and Tim don't get that TV out of their bedroom, they're never going to have baby Slim. Kim and Tim don't get that TV out of their bedroom, they're never going to have baby Slim. You know, that's a nickname for Slimer. Only if it was your grandfather's name.

So nice talking to you, Liz Gilbert. My goodness. Good luck finding a suitable title for your book. I'm sure we can pull one out of here somehow. I do enjoy sitting in chambers with you drinking our appletinis, Judge. I enjoy it too, Liz. And meanwhile, you know, I have a book with a good name called That Is All. I love the name of your book, Liz. I'm just kidding.

Oh, that's okay. I like yours too. My book of final world knowledge, That Is All, is now out on audiobook and in paperback. And it's all a lot of fun in the audiobook you know we've got lots of lots of guests on we have patten oswalt and john ham star as a television that you might watch uh asleep in bed uh dick cabot rachel maddow it's uh it's a delight and i hope that you will at least check it out because uh it's uh it's hours long. We put a lot of work into it. And additionally, if you are in the Massachusetts area and a listener of Judge John Hodgman,

won't you consider coming to see me and my old pal Jonathan Colton at the Calvin Theater on November 2nd and then again at the Wilbur Theater in Boston on November 3rd. It is our coast-to-coast of Massachusetts tour, and it's going to be a lot of fun. And if you're a Judge John Hodgman listener, I hope you will come up afterwards and say hello, and I will judge a case for you right off the top of my head. Tell me your dispute.

The other person doesn't even have to be there. I will tell you who is right and who is wrong, and you will finally get some closure in your damn life. You never stop delivering justice, Judge. No, I live, eat and breathe justice, Pooh. Thanks, Judgey. This has been great. And your book is called The Signature of All Things until I give it a better name.

It's called The Signature of All Things. I'm going to rename it The Dow of Pooh. Oh, that's good. And when does that come out? In two years? Oh, that won't be out until after the zombie apocalypse. That's not out until 2013.

A timely plug. Well, this is an evergreen. Yeah, let me be clear to those of you who might be in Massachusetts. I'm talking about November 2 and 3 of 2012. If the world survives the end time events of 2012 and we actually get to the next year, don't show up on those dates because you won't find us, but do buy Elizabeth Gilbert's next book and first novel in a long time that I'm very eager to read called Until I Come Up With a Better Title, The Signature of All Things. We'll be having a title contest soon. You can look for it at titlesearch.com. I've been your guest bailiff, Liz Gilbert. Thank you all for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org.

Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum dot maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.